#Mace Windu is emotionless

[happycattail]

Wheezing (if I don’t I may strangle someone instead). Got into a debate with an anti Jedi person about the Jedi code. Managed to get it across to them the code doesn’t fucking promote Jedi to become emotionless.

They then decided to take a different angle where they claim the code is wrong because it could be misinterpreted and that many council members misinterpreted to mean you have to be emotionless. I proceed to ask them to name me a council member.

Guess who they named guys? Guess which council member they named as someone who thinks the code means you can’t show emotions and abide by that interpretation?

FUCKING MACE WINDU.

[david-talks-sw]

I think it's interesting that - in order to make his "free-thinking Jedi" characters hold any semblance of rationality in their arguments - Dave Filoni needs to resort to artificially dehumanizing the other Jedi and painting them all with the same "we dogmatically worship protocol" brush.

He does this with Huyang in the recent Ahsoka episode.

"Lolz he's so narrow-minded, preachy and by-the-book, unable to think outside the box, just like the Jedi in the Prequels."

My first reaction was being amused at the fact that Filoni had to resort to making the Jedi Order's ideals and rules be embodied by a literal machine for his anti-Jedi headcanon to start making sense.

But then I remembered: Huyang isn't just any droid.

In The Clone Wars, he had a sassy personality, he had a pep in his step, he had a sense of humor...

This character was human in his behavior, he was fun and whimsical.

But now he's been reduced to, I dunno, "Jedi C-3PO"? Basically?

"Ha! He's blunt and unsympathetic because he's a droid, but it's funny because the Jedi were the same, they were training themselves to be tactless, emotionless droids."

And Filoni does this with Mace Windu too, in Tales of the Jedi.

Mace, who brought a lightsaber to the throat of a planetary leader to defend the endangered Zillo Beast...

... and who went waaay past his mandate by mischievously sneaking around Bardottan authorities and breaking into the Queen's quarters because he felt something bad was afoot...

... was reduced to being an almost droid-like, rule-parotting, protocol purist who sticks to his instructions (and is implied to be willing to let a murder go unsolved so he can get a promotion).

I mentioned this at the end of my first post on Luke in The Last Jedi... while changes in personality do happen overtime and can be explained in-universe... if you don't show us that progression and evolution and just leave us without that context, that'll break the suspension of disbelief, for your audience.

Here, we have two characters with a different (almost caricatural) personality than the one they were originally shown to have.

Now... we could resort to headcanons, to make it all fit together.

We could justify Huyang's tone shift 'cause "Order 66 changed him". And we could make explanations about TotJ's Mace:

Being younger and thus more ambitious and a stickler for the rules, and only really becoming more flexible after getting his seat on the Council and gaining more maturity.

Being such a teacher's pet in the episode because we're seeing him through the eyes of a notorious unreliable narrator, Dooku.

There'd be nothing wrong with opting to go with either of those headcanons to cope with this. After all, Star Wars is meant to help you get creative.

But the problem I encounter is that:

Filoni has an anti-Jedi bias, so the above headcanons clearly wouldn't really track with his intended narrative.

We'd be jumping through hoops to extrapolate and fill in what is, essentially, inconsistent characterization, manufactured to make Ahsoka and Dooku shine under a better light.

And that sours whatever headcanon I come up with.

Edit: Also, yeah, as folks have been saying in the tags... wtf is "Jedi protocol"? The term isn't ever mentioned in the movies, I skimmed through dialog transcripts of TCW, never saw it there.

So it's almost as if - if Filoni wasn't draining characters like Mace and Huyang of all humanity and nuance - his point about "the Jedi were too detached and lost their way, but not free-thinkers like Qui-Gon, Dooku and Ahsoka" wouldn't really hold much water.

[threebea]

People say Obi-Wan and the Jedi by extention, stiffled Anakin's emotions and Anakin couldn't open up to him or anyone else. This is the reason why he explodes.

In the 2002 film Attack of the Clones our first scene with Anakin and Obi-Wan involve them discussing a traumatic dream. Obi-Wan asks if it concerns Anakin's mother which implies the two have discussed these dreams and Anakin confided in him about it. Obi-Wan tries to comfort him. Sometimes dreams are just dreams. It's not a callous disregard of Anakin's emotions. Obi-Wan is speaking as someone who has lived in a community of psychics that have visions. Anakin is nineteen in a time of heightened stress where he thinks he should be promoted. Anxiety dreams are more likely than visions, and even visions can be fickle as we see with Sifo Dyas building an army to defend the Jedi that ends up slaughtering them, and Anakin killing his wife when he was supposed to save her.

Anakin then changes the subject to talk about the woman he has had a crush on since he was nine, making a very direct statement about how he's rather dream of her. If he feared Obi-Wan's judgment of his amorous emotions he would have swallowed them down and not brought them up.

Although Obi-Wan reminds him of his commitment to the Jedi Order which cannot be easily broken he isn't exactly clutching his pearls, and Anakin pokes at Obi-Wan's suspicion of politicians.

Anakin begins to show dissatisfaction with Obi-Wan when he is being viewed by said woman he likes as a little kid compared to Obi-Wan's Jedi Master. He also feels because of his natural abilities he should be able to take his trial to be a Jedi. Obi-Wan disagrees because of the obvious arrogance Anakin shows about his powers.

Mace Windu known fanon Anakin hater suggests that Obi-Wan is being too clingy and he needs to let Anakin spread his wings and fly for a solo mission with Anakin's forever crush. Thanks for the hookup, Mace. Yoda who also gets a reputation as anti-anakin agrees, poking fun at Obi-Wan mentioning a lot of Jedi can be rather arrogant. Flashback to Pada-Wan Episode I for the most handsome twerp in space bullying Jar Jar Binks.

Yoda and Mace: he's at that age, but your smothering isn't going to help him grow.

Obi-Wan: As his primary teacher I don't think he's ready, but if you think he is then alright. (Spoiler Alert, he was not ready)

Anakin, because of dreams that involve his Mother but do not give him any specifics eventually takes unnecessary risk, tries to abandon the mission Obi-Wan said he wasn't ready for, then brings his mission to Hutt controlled Tatooine for what could still be an anxiety dream (he's on a mission with his crush!). He proceeds to watch his mother die (being right about the vision does not mean he did not put his feelings before his duty) and seeks horrible revenge killing an entire village of sand people, including woman and children who are implied to have not taken part in Shmi's torture.

Anakin, having just lost his mother and also knowing he did a horrible thing that the Jedi would not approve of blames everyone he can for his actions. He blames Obi-Wan for holding him back.

Anakin never blames Obi-Wan for not letting him find Shmi. He blames Obi-Wan for not knighting him (which as we saw in Phantom Menace it's actually up to the Council, although Obi-Wan putting a good word in would maybe help). Anakin is blaming Obi-Wan for not letting his use his full power potential by keeping him a Padawan, after the scene where Anakin uses his power without any restraint.

Padme (for some reason) reassures Anakin it's normal and human to be angry and the Jedi are forever misinterpreted as emotionless rather than having taught their students emotional regulation (so they don't slaughter a village, not that you need to be masters of your emotions to not slaughter a village or anything. Just saying.)

Like, Padme is talking him down and soothing his obvious emotional breakdown at the loss of his mother. There are a few theories on why she doesn't see him killing the Sand People as repulsive or at least indicating a red flag. (Star wars wants aliens to be seen as normal people but also wants movie monsters. Anakin kills a bunch of Geonosians too when he's the one sneaking onto their planet and he's being executed for espionage, not murder so...) whatever the intention for Padme is there, she ends up showing Anakin that she accepts his dark side (pun intended), although she might not really understand the extent of what he's trying to communicate.

Anakin never tells Obi-Wan about killing the sand people, and he also does not tell Obi-Wan he has married Padme.

Is this because he can't open up to Obi-Wan because Obi-Wan raised him to push all his emotions and fears down and never speak of them? No, we already have evidence they had spoke about the nightmares more than once and Obi-Wan was worried enough to bring it up.

Does he actually truly hate Obi-Wan for holding him back and resent him bitterly and blame Obi-Wan for his Mother's death? No he once again disregards orders with the smallest nudge from Padme to go and try to save him. A task that he does not accomplish, puts the woman he was supposed to guard in the hands of the people that want her dead, and has to fight in a gladiator arena. I'm starting to think he wasn't ready for this mission. And is overconfident in his abilities which allows him to justify actions he should not be taking especially as a Jedi...man Obi-Wan really knows him.

I can't remember if it's in the deleted scenes or RotS canon but Palpatine knows about the sand people slaughter. Anakin doesn't tell Palpatine this because he trusts him more than Obi-Wan, he tells Palpatine this because Palpatine will be sympathetic and say acting on his anger by going into a blood frenzy was natural.

Anakin couldn't tell Obi-Wan because first, the sand people slaughter would have meant he would be scrutinized. Would he get kicked out of the Jedi? Probably not actually. Like legally he's probably in the clear considering how Tatooine has been shown to work. Jedi wise we have storylines outside the moves that imply it would be the Jedi's responsibility to get him back on the right path especially if the law has no jurisdiction. Either way he wouldn't be knighted anytime soon. Second, he did not tell Obi-Wan about the marriage because as a Jedi who understands and adheres to the code Obi-Wan would believe in the real danger that kind of relationship could hold for Anakin and he would make him choose one. He already said as much when Padme falls out of the shop when they go after Dooku.

If you want to talk about bad moves on Obi-Wan's part it's the he convinces Anakin not to go after Padme (who is basically fine) because he can't take Dooku alone and (unintentionally imo) convinces Anakin through his attachments rather than through duty.

So Anakin doesn't tell him knowing he would have to pick because he believes he is powerful enough to be an exception to the rules. No Jedi should have a romantic relationship but he can because he is special and he can handle it (it's like there's a pattern). Meanwhile, Palpatine and Padme both reinforce the idea that Anakin is more 'human' than other Jedi.

Jedi teaching is: even if you're angry you should not let your anger control your actions and kill people. Palpatine's lesson is: give in to hate and bloodrage without thought and don't hold yourself back even if it hurts others and yourself.

This is not me being Anti-Anakin. I think he's a great tragic character. I think he does love Padme, I think he was devastated by losing his mother and that his trauma at being a slave and having to leave her so that he could have a better life all added to what came later.

But he was also arrogant because of his natural talent, and thought he was above the rules because he always thought he was powerful enough to be an exception.

When Obi-Wan tells him he's won because he has the high ground there are a number of things he could have done in that moment, but he jumps from the position of disadvantage because he thinks he is powerful enough to overcome it.

His fear is how he got manipulated, but his arrogance constantly led to his downfall and gave Palpatine ammunition.

[rien-maz]

And so, I finished watching this show and you know, dumber than this show can only be the Disney cartoon of the century, for both are storyless, holey, raw and meaningless pictures that make you want to wash your eyes out.

So this is a continuation or addition to the first post about analyzing this "miracle". https://www.tumblr.com/rien-maz/755293709600456704/and-so-i-avoiding-all-spoilers-finished-my

First, I still had hope that Leslie would deign to "plug" the plot holes in the last two episodes, but no, that didn't happen.

After watching, there are still a bunch of questions and here are a few of them:

How did Mei get saved? How did our Sith pretty boy find her? How were the two twins created? Why are they the same person? Why does Darth Plagas show up there? What is his significance? Why doesn't physics work in this show? Why the fuck is Yoda suddenly unable to sense with the jedi force? What role does Mei's mark on her forehead play? Why are the two sisters acolyte? And so it goes on and on ad infinitum.

A little disclaimer: this post will contain rude words and phrases, heaps of sarcasm, and a suggestion that the ratings of this show be collapsed for spitting Leslie Hadland in the face of all Star Wars fans.

Let's start with the seventh episode: Leslie apparently wanted to add action to her terrible picture and filmed a scene of Saul chasing after Mei, trying to mimic Fast and Furious. But!

Before that, I had a question, how does Mei know about the concept of hell? Because I don't remember the star wars universe talking about heaven and hell even once. If my memory serves me correctly, all dead souls "fall into the Force".

Oh yeah, in this fine series we also have the "unkillable protagonist" principle at work, who went through the atmosphere at breakneck speed and didn't even bother to use the Force to slow his fall. Yeah, yeah, screw the basic skills of Force users.

I laughed at the conversation between the Senator and our main antagonist in the form of a green-skinned woman (I didn't even try to remember her name and I won't apologize for that). Did you smell something in that scene?

Oh yes, the romanticization of violence, particularly the dark side of the Force. Leslie, ignoring all the laws of Lucas' universe, made the Sith not the rapists and murderers who are alien to the humanity and compassion that kept slaves during the Emperor's reign on Dromund Kaas, and not only in those times. Even going back to the origins of the Sith, we know that the Sith were a race that lived on Korriban (if I remember correctly), and wow, you wouldn't believe it! They had slaves as a class in society too. Leslie made the Sith the poor saps that crave freedom from Jedi oppression.

Leslie is fucked up if she wants to romanticize those who killed, who betrayed, who plotted against each other, who destroyed, who perverted and who are simply evil in the flesh (the same Nikhilus, Darth Plagas, Darth Bane, Darth Tyranus, Darth Sidious (where else), etc.). Basically, Leslie romanticized Anakin Skywalker's killing of children with such a moment. After all, oh oh oh oh he's a poor guy who chose to be free of a "delusional cult".

Well done! Way to go! Good point, because killing other people is so cool, right, Leslie Hadland? That's what you're doing in this fucking show, saying that all Jedi are fucking egomaniacs who care about their own feelings and emotions (Mace Windu, Plo Koon, Obi-Wan Kenobi and the rest of the Jedi, along with their codes and teachings, fuck you).

But back to the series and its dumb plot, which there isn't.

Where were we? Oh yeah, on how I'm trashing this whole show and Leslie.

So, let's get on with it. The actors' performance was mentioned in the first post, so I won't repeat for the hundredth time what characters are flat, emotionless and so on. But I will talk about the motivation of the characters, that is, its absence. Seriously, neither the handsome Sith, nor Mei, nor Saul, nor Osha has any motivation. Osha hasn't changed at all since the first episode, she doesn't learn anything and just moves from one point to another just because other characters drag her there.

Zimmir's motivation for taking Acolyte's child as an apprentice is incomprehensible at all, simply because Leslie forgot to tell him what he's for and what powers he has.

I also have a question about the transformation of Oshi's lightsaber from blue to red. Because I only remember about the synthetic crystals that the Sith used to create their sword. But after poking around on the internet, I removed that statement. I didn't get a chance to pick on Leslie, unfortunately.

The biggest complaint about the last two episodes is where Mundi went and why Yoda, being the most powerful Jedi, didn't feel Zimmer cut out a group of Jedi and didn't feel cheated by Rowe (oh! I even remembered her name!) Why does the Jedi High Council care so absolutely nothing about missing and dead Jedi? Oh yeah, Leslie wants to show that, say, look what scum and moral freaks the Jedi are, just selfish!

In general, I could grumble for a long time, but I think you understood the main point and also realized how stupid this series is. As Dmitry Puchkov said "wasted time is a pity. One hundred percent digested feces."

So, in the end, what do we have? Osha and Zimmir's love line; Jedi egomaniacs and the romanticization of violence.

In fact, I suggest that for this spit, no, for the fact that Leslie spit in the face of Star Wars fans, to collapse the rating of this product on all platforms, so that Leslie realized that it is not worth offending fans.

[fionajames]

Heyyy. Sorry life isn’t very fun right now. Not fun for me either :/ but at least we have Star Wars ❤️ Can I please request an angst story about Xi and his crush on Anakin please? Pretty please with a cherry on top? Thank you so much! Luv u, my dear mutual

-Sha 🫡

heartache

hi! i hope it gets better <3 sorry i wrote this early and completely forgot! here u go!

(xi and i really be twinnin' rn 😔)

Xi ran a hand through his hair with a loud sigh, rubbing the sleep from his eyes. He’d been set to retrieve his General from within the depths of the Jedi Temple, which happened to be one of his greatest fears.

He pulled his helmet over his head upon stepping inside the Temple. Xi shuddered as he walked through the hallways quickly. The Temple was no place for a Clone, in particular this one.

“Xi!” A voice called and the trooper spun to see Obi-Wan, a grin on his tired face. “What are you doing here?” 

Xi took note of the bruise on the General’s cheek, and how his skin was tinted black and blue in several places. He pitied Cody for having a reckless Jedi too. Well, at least Cody only had to deal with one, the 501st had to deal with two.

“I’m searching for General Skywalker, sir,” he explained firmly. He missed the look of confusion that flickered across Obi-Wan’s face. A look of confused concern, for the Clone’s emotionless state.

“Yes,” Obi-Wan murmured, grin gone and replaced with a look of concentration. “Well, he’s in briefing room twelve.” 

Xi nodded and stated his thanks, before turning and leaving. A pang of anxiety shot through his heart as he neared the room in which his General stood. Nothing about this task was easy for him.

His eyes were drooping with the sting of sleep deprivation and it was getting hard to keep them open as the sound of the Temple lulled him into calmness. 

But that calm was shattered when Xi spotted the room that was his destination. He wrung his fingers for a moment before taking a deep breath and stepping through the open doorway. 

This job would’ve been easier if Xi had been sent alongside someone, or even picking up not just his General, but unluckily for him, it was just him picking up his General.

Inside the room, Anakin, Yoda, Mace Windu and Kit Fisto were standing around the holomap. 

“General Skywalker,” Xi called, mustering up all of his confidence to speak. As soon as he did, Anakin turned, and Xi felt his heart shatter. He heard the shards hit the floor, one and a time, collecting him around him like pieces of broken glass. During their fall, the shards had cut him internally, he was forever emotionally bleeding. 

He stared into his General’s eyes, searching through the blue for something - for anything - only to resurface empty handed. Xi inspected the way Anakin’s hair fell over his face, the wavy curls of brown contrasting the blue of his eyes. 

It took all of his strength, but finally Xi was able to finish his sentence. It felt like forever since he’d paused, but to the others, barely a second had gone by. “Captain Rex needs you back at base.”

Anakin nodded and shot Xi a small smile, unaware of the way it caused the trooper to shiver internally. Xi wanted to do nothing more than turn and flee, to run away from this boy who consumed his thoughts and the problems that followed. 

He wanted to be free of this emotion. 

He wanted to be free of this love.

Of the love that caused him so much heartache and heartbreak.

But he couldn’t.

“I’ll be there in a moment, Xi,” Anakin told him and Ci nodded slowly, stepping to shuffle out of the room. He flinched as a singular tear fell from his eye, grateful to his helmet that hid it. He did nothing as it rolled down his cheek and neck, falling and being absorbed by the fabric of his blacks. 

A singular tear, for a heartbreak worth millions. 

Xi waited patiently for his General, patient yet anxious to be home already. He was not looking forward to the walk back.

Anakin turned the corner quickly, moving to stand beside Xi with a grin. The trooper didn’t attempt to return it.

He began walking back to the base without saying a word, Anakin trailing after him. His heart throbbed too much to even say a word more than he had to. 

So they walked in painful silence all the while back to the base. Anakin wasn’t sure what was wrong with his trooper, but he could tell something was off. From the silence to the rigid way he walked. But he could tell he didn’t want to talk, so he didn’t pry.

Xi bid a quiet farewell to his General before swiftly turning into the barracks. They were empty when he arrived, and so Xi did the only acceptable thing. He collapsed on his bed, using the pillow to muffle the sound of his sobs.

Heartache and heartbreak consumed him.

Xi hated love, and he feared it.

Yet, he was consumed by it.

hope you enjoyed!!!!!!!!! please people, send reqeusts!!!!!!

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

Have you ever read the 2008 Star Wars: The Clone Wars novelisation by Karen Traviss? I found a copy in a used bookstore. It's a very frustrating book. There's so much anti-Jedi-ness and Mace Windu slander in it, that I'm going to cry.

There'll be a really cute scene off Ahsoka being a little baby Togruta Padawan one minute, then a "the Jedi Council are emotionless bullies to Anakin" the next. It makes me want to throw the book out the window.

I vaguely remember reading it, but it was some years back. I'm not surprised in the least tho. If you want some catharsis, here's a (tragically unfinished) readalong of 'No Prisoner', her other TCW novel, and it's pretty entertaining.

Honestly, don't bother reading it if it's not a fun experience. It hasn't been canon since like 2010, she's not the best writer around even if we're not talking about Star Wars specifically, and there's plenty of better media or even fic to enjoy.

[thehollowprince]

The violence ask game:

1 (besides characters named Scott)

8

24

1. the character everyone gets wrong

Cruel Caveat: besides characters named Scott

I just want to point out how mean that stipulation was before I begin, but in the same breath, it does challenge me because my Scotts (McCall & Summers) are such tempting, low-hanging fruit.

I've been on a Star Wars kick lately, and so I'm going to talk about Mace Windu.

Everyone (general) points to Mace and gets upset with him because he didn't grant Anakin the rank of Jedi Master or because in the final episodes of The Clone Wars, he dismissed Ahsoka by calling her "citizen".

Mace Windu was not an unfeeling robot. He was a human being who felt love and anger and fear, just like any other sentient being. But, as a Jedi Master, he learned not to be ruled by said emotions. It's especially frustrating because if these people would actually watch the movies or the show, or read the comics, or generally just engage with the media they're complaining about, it does disprove the notion that Mace was a stone-hearted ass. In fact, it was Mace who, along with the rest of the council, agreed to train Anakin, with Yoda being the lone holdout in the end. It was Mace who encouraged Obi-Wan to have faith in his padawan in AotC. It was Mace who told Anakin to sit the fight with Palpatine out because he recognized how emotionally conflicted Skywalker was about potentially fighting a mentor-figure.

I'm actually rereading Shatterpoint, which is, in my opinion, one of the best Star Wars novels ever written. It's entirely focused on Mace Windu and his complicated relationship with the Dark Side and his love for his padawan, Depa Billaba. I'd highly recommend reading it.

Another thing about Mace that I delight in pointing out is that he was basically the head honcho for the Jedi Order. Everyone always points to Master Yoda because he was given the rank of Grandmaster, which is really just a title bequeathed to the "oldest and wisest" of the Jedi. The true authority of the Order was the High Council, which was led by the Master of the Order. That was Mace... until the Clone Wars broke out and he relinquished the title to Yoda. But until then, he was the guy in charge, and I love that for him.

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Let's keep on the Star Wars topic today.

The Jedi did not kidnap babies! They are not emotionless droids. They were not hypocrites for joining in the Clone Wars. And they did not enslave the Clones.

I could go on and on here, but I shouldn't need to.

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

Racism.

I was going to put down a specific ship that always seems to draw in people whenever you criticize it. Or even just me posting about how I like a certain character attracts said character's most ardent haters who then proceed to try and shout you down. But at the end of the day, the racism within fandom is always its biggest problem (followed closely by its misogyny and homo/transphobia), and any time anyone attempts to tackle the subject, it just makes the most for the most vile discourse.

Because people will go out of their way to tell you how they're not racist, they just only seem to hate the black and brown characters because "they're not that interesting" or "they're badly written". And that second one never seems to be a problem for them, because they can take the most boring white character ever and make a biblical epic to flesh them out, but the same is never even attempted for characters of color. Instead, they rely on racist stereotypes and tropes.

I remember back in 2020, when I received an ask about John Boyega's comments about how his character (Finn) was treated in the Star Wars sequels. I pointed out the similarities between how he was treated by the Reylo-shippers and how Tyler Posey was treated by the Sterek-shippers, and even though I tagged it correctly, people lost their freaking minds. How dare I call either ship racist, even though both ships were rooted in racism and violence.

Especially on here, where anonymity still reigns, and everyone talks about how liberal and progressive the people on here are, people were very upset that I would point that out. People did not like that, even though I didn't tag anyone or mention anyone specific.

[mrfandomwars]

In Defence Of Ki-Adi Mundi

Heyo! I'm here because I am Done™ with the general hate he gets.

So! Consider this post a defence against common misconceptions that there are on the fandom, I promise I will do my best to make this reasonable.

Warning: As some parts of the fandom hates Ki-Adi for things that are now Legends, I will do my best to include them as well.

More under the cut.

First things first:

Ki-Adi does not care about his men (Clone Troopers/The Vode):

I, personally, never saw anything that may indicate that, if anything I saw the opposite.

Proof A:

Episode 6 "Weapons factory" season 2

As you can see here, Ki-Adi clearly cares for his men in this scene, so saying that he doesn't care should already be disproven just from this scene, specially adding the fact he orders the wounded into the tanks in "Landing on point rain".

But let's continue, as I know some antis would turn around and say that he only did the later part so that they weren't slowing them down, even though he could have easily left them behind or go into the tank himself and left the vode to try and figure how to get the tanks around instead of, y'know, doing literally this while injured:

Proof B:

He leads the Marine's in front of the battle, something we have proof that people that did not care about the vode didn't do it.

The proof? Krell, a fallen Jedi.

Ki-Adi did not care about his (now legends) family

For this, I pull this:

-and this line from wookieepedia:

So, based of this two things alone, I wouldn't immediatly say he didn't care, maybe because of his duties as a Jedi he couldn't put their lives as his most important thing but I assume that his wives were given a choice on whether or not they could marry a Jedi.

"But MR!" you may cry, "what about how he didn't care that his family was dead!?" for that I say:

The panel most people use to reference that, Ki-Adi is literally trying to convince Anakin to not get stuck in the past by thinking that Obi-Wan might be alive because they couldn't find a body and he used his family as an example to the fact that not always it was possible to recover the bodies of dead loved ones, there's literally nothing wrong with that.

Don't believe me that it wasn't what he meant? Then read the comic page yourselves:

Also, he still dislikes Jabba the Hutt for capturing his daughter and almost killing her:

Ki-Adi went too far in suppressing his emotions

Two things:

1. I find that this misconception usually comes from the idea that Jedi, suppress emotions, which they do not, and you can see that if you actually watch the series, or read any meta honestly.

2. People show emotions differently, sometimes their actions speak louder than their words. Besides, Ki-Adi does show emotions throughout of the series:

Regret over the fact that his men were hurt:

Sadness:

And that's just off the top of my head (and what Tumblr allows me to put with the image limit).

And so no, he is not emotionless.

Ki-Adi disliked/hated Anakin and/or Ahsoka

First of all, there are already some posts talking about how the Jedi Council Did Not Hate Anakin, so if you are basing off your opinion that Ki-Adi hated Anakin because of one of the Council scenes where he spoke, I recommend reading them before coming back here with it in mind that being stern and pointing out when people are lying does not equal hate.

Second of all, relatively on the Ahsoka matter, most people use the whole Temple Bombing arc as a reason to show that he at least disliked her.

When, might I remind you, she was a suspected criminal, you can't argue that the only evidence was the video, as by the time she was judged by the Council, not only had she had that but also had her escape (which ended with a few vode murdered may I remind you), her working with a known Separatist, resisting her re-arrest even if she was captured at the end and being found with the nanobombs.

And as Mace Windu said:

And we all know what Palpatine would have done had he seen any opposition early (it rhymes with Border 76).

"But MR!" you may cry, "The Council (which included Ki-Adi) had already decided that she was guilty before that on To Catch A Jedi!"

Oh? You mean after she escaped, and dead clone troopers obviously killed by a lightsaber were found, after there was already a damaging video against her + an investigation (implied that it was run by Tarkin, I will give you that) declaring her guilty of their murders? After that?

(And Yoda uses the word "may" btw, when he says that they believe that Ahsoka was behind the crime, if that means anything to you.)

Add the fact that she was later found with Ventress and the bombs + the whole conversation with Tarkin earlier in The Wrong Jedi ... well, tbh, they didn't really have a choice.

Finishing on this matter, I recommend you to read some meta on the matter to also further your understanding on where I'm coming from.

ALSO,

Do I need to remind you that he literally went along with Anakin and Ahsoka's game of who killed more droids in Landing on Point Rain, when not even Obi-Wan joined? If he hated them, he would have scolded them or at least scoffed at them, not join them.

-------------

In conclusion, Ki-Adi often times receives hate even though it is unfounded and undeserved, and suffers from this fandom echo chamber.

[nibeul]

“Mace Windu is emotionless and angry blah blah blah” shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up, I’m going to break into your home with my hello kitty bat and bash your knees inward.

[elivanto]

Review: Brotherhood by Mike Chen

I finished reading Brotherhood yesterday!

Since I’ve seen some people undecided whether they should read Brotherhood because of the mixed reviews that are either THIS BOOK IS FANTASTIC or THIS BOOK IS BULLSHIT I’ve written a semi-serious review (you can tell by the proper capitalization and punctuation) of the novel and tried to be as objective as I could. Which was practically impossible but it’s the thought that counts, right?

I grouped the review into three parts: The good (what I liked), the bad (what I disliked) and suggestions for anyone who is unsure about whether to read it (basically a TLDR! just scroll down in the read more).

THE GOOD

1. Chapter lengths. Yeah, I know, that’s a weird thing to comment on, but I was pleasantly surprised by how easy the short chapters made it to read this book. And there’s not really any unnecessary exposition or big words that threw me out of the plot because I had to go look something up every two minutes (looking at you here, Luceno).

2. The Padmé/Anakin. If you follow me you probably know I’m not an Anidala fan, but their parts were very sweet and in character. Anakin admires her (as he should!) and she’s in his thoughts a lot. They’re bad at hiding their feelings for each from other people (read: Obi-Wan) which is also very typical for them.

3. Neimoidian culture. I think this was my favorite thing in the entire book. We accompany Obi-Wan on a mission to Cato Neimoidia which is set up to fail, of course, and Chen included some really nice world-building here. I’m not sure how much of it was present in previous (Legends) books like Labyrinth of Evil but I enjoyed getting a feel for the geographical, political and social structures on this planet. Some of the characters rightfully call the Core worlds (and the reader!) out for stereotyping Neimoidians, and I was just reading like “Yeah! Yeah! We need more of this in Star Wars!”

4. Original characters. This is where I’m very torn. I very much love Ruug, a Neimoidian who Obi-Wan meets on his mission. I wish I could say more about her, but no spoilers. And I do very much love Mill, too. She’s a youngling that kind of “gets stuck” with Anakin — or rather they get stuck with each other. I’m unsure about if I like what Mill’s character is supposed to represent, though. More about that in the ‘bad’ section.

5. Asajj Ventress. She gets her own little paragraph because she’s iconic. I loved reading about her and I think that Chen really did her justice. Not the epic introduction I’d hoped for in canon (I was thinking more Clone Wars 2003-esque, but maybe that was too expectant of me) but very nice nonetheless.

6. Anakin and Obi-Wan’s POVs (in general). All in all their characterizations are quite accurate in this, so I’m putting this in the ‘good’ section. Sadly, their inner monologues are overflowing with things I didn’t enjoy very much (see the ‘bad’ section), so that kind of overshadowed the characterizations for me. But still, I think Chen did a good job.

THE BAD

1. Depiction of Jedi culture. Oof. I have so much to say about the takes on the Jedi Order in this novel that I don’t think I can articulate myself properly. There are some quotes in the book that I just know people are going to run with when they need arguments for why the Jedi are… Bad? A cult? Emotionless? Lacking empathy? BIG YIKES. Going hand in hand with the perception of Jedi by the characters in the novel is Obi-Wan’s and Anakin’s thoughts on Qui-Gon Jinn. Thoughts like if adopting his attitude would have been better than the ‘usual, strict’ Jedi ways (newsflash: the ‘Jedi ways’ are like that because they need to be! But that’s a whole different post. A book, really). Basically lots of pondering about things that can’t be changed, anyway.

2. Continuation from the previous point: Special shoutout to Mace Windu, because dude, you deserve so much better than this. Much (if not all?) of the description of him is from Anakin’s POV, so it kind of makes sense that there’s not much fondness to be had here. Especially because Anakin has his proverbial hands full with juggling his promotion to knight, the shift in his dynamic with Obi-Wan, and his feelings for Padmé. However, I got the distinct impression of Mace bashing, and I’m sure that it wasn’t Chen’s intention, but… this could’ve, no, should’ve been handled differently.

3. Qui-Gon Jinn. Yes, I know he’s a focal point in Obi-Wan’s jouney, but this book takes it to a whole different level. There are multiple mentions of him in pretty much every chapter, and every time they’re accompanied by something that annoys me regarding the Jedi or Anakin and Obi-Wan. I don’t get the obsession some Star Wars writers have with (idolizing) him and I wish they would stop.

4. Mill Alibeth. She’s a fantastic character by herself, and I always love when there’s more female characters added into the mix. She’s clearly supposed to represent a kind of narrative foil to Anakin, and show that she deals with her issues in a mature and insightful way (especially considering she’s just a youngling!). And as someone who appreciates the Jedi, I can appreciate what Chen is trying to do here. For someone else who maybe doesn’t like the Jedi much, I think it could come across as yet another reason in this novel to demonize (I hate using this word but lbr it fits here) Jedi culture as a whole.

ANAKIN & OBI-WAN

If you’ve read the whole thing you probably noticed that I didn’t mention the Anakin & Obi-Wan dynamic. That’s because I’m not actually sure how I feel about it. On one hand I very much agree with Chen’s interpretation — Anakin was just knighted, they’re on unsure footing, Anakin feels like he’s going to be reprimanded for every little mistake he makes and Obi-Wan barely restrains himself from reprimanding him (most of the time). And honestly? That’s not too different from the AOTC characterization! And not too different from the first season of Clone Wars either, to be honest.

On the other hand, their interactions, especially in the second half of the novel, give the impression that Chen hasn’t mastered the friendly bickering/teasing that’s so prevalent and important in their relationship. Comments that are supposed to be teasing just get across as borderline rude (to me, at least). Anakin and Obi-Wan constantly assume they’d understand each other better or that their relationship would be completely different if Qui-Gon were there. Sigh.

I think a lot of people reading this novel that ended up being disappointed by it had a hard time taking off their ROTS novelization goggles. And I really get that, because once you get there you can’t let go of it (Attachment! Ha!). I doubt anyone can recreate what Matthew Stover did, and other authors adopting elements of it (like Chen did in Brotherhood with the sun-dragon, for instance) just doesn’t feel the same.

SUGGESTIONS FOR MIGHT-BE READERS (TLDR)

If you’re here for the plot and background on the Cato Neimoidia mission as well as the start of the Clone War: Yes! Read it! It’s super interesting.

If you’re here for Anidala (or even Obitine): Yup, go ahead and read it, I’m pretty sure you’ll love this. I quite liked Padmé’s characterization, too, and the mentions of Satine are quite charming. If you’re into that kind of thing.

If you’re here for Ventress: 1) Let’s be friends? 2) I’d read it. She isn’t there that much but I adored her in this.

If you’re here for Anakin and Obi-Wan’s relationship, especially if you’ve read the ROTS novelization, ESPECIALLY if you’re a shipper: Honestly? It’s not worth it, despite the book being literally about their relationship. Go on and read Labyrinth of Evil, if you haven’t. Or Wild Space. Or the ROTS novelization, again.

If you’re here for the Jedi: [wiggles hand vaguely] Meh, well. I’m not very impressed by Chen’s take on them. I’d avoid this novel.

If you’re here for Qui-Gon nostalgia: Read it. I don’t think there’s any other piece of Star Wars media containing THIS much Qui-Gon without him physically being there.

[foundfamilynonsense]

Besides Ki Adi Mundi, Luminara Unduli, and Mace Windu what other Jedi do the Jedi antis hate?

Like, let’s not talk about Obi-Wan, Yoda, or Anakin because those are the main three and we met each one of them in the OT first, outside of the order. I’m talking Jedi whom we’ve only ever met as part of the order/ prequel era.

So like…. Qui-Gon, Shaak Ti, Depa Billada, Plo Koon, Kit Fisto, Caleb Dume, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secula, Eeth Koth, Jocasta Nu, Adi Gallia. Literally any other jedi that has a plot line or an episode or even just a few lines in the clone war? Any Jedi that has enough characterization to form an opinion on? I have never once seen anything against any of these jedi.

But like. How does that work? Are they all special and different? Are all twelve of the Jedi I listed off the top of my head outliers? It’s the unnamed Jedi that are evil and emotionless (plus the black one, the Muslim coded one, and the random long head man)?

I have only ever seen good things about these background Jedi. But I don’t stray to far into the Jedi anti side of tumblr because it gives me a headache, so maybe I’m wrong? Because from these seats it looks like the Jedi antis decided to hate all over an organization, but can’t even force themselves to hate the majority of its members. So what exactly are people so angry about?

[david-talks-sw]

The Jedi allow themselves to feel more emotions than the Sith do.

Was thinking about how, usually, the general audience interprets the difference between the Jedi and Sith as:

“The Jedi don’t allow you to feel your emotions, the Sith encourage you to embrace them with a passion. The Jedi can’t be in a relationship, but the Sith can” and more stuff along that line.

And... I disagree. Mainly because a lot of what we’ve seen in Star Wars material so far suggests that it’s basically the other way round.

First off: they aren’t emotionless.

Jedi are allowed to feel any emotion. We see this mentioned multiple times, both in Legends and current canon:

They simply can’t act out of emotion, keeping the peace needs to be the priority because that’s their job, as Jedi. Hence the line in the Jedi code: “Emotion, yet peace” or “there is no emotion; there is peace”.

For example: Anakin and Obi-Wan’s fight against Dooku in Episode 2.

They didn’t stand a chance against Dooku to begin with. But if they had taken him together, they would have kept him there long enough for Yoda to arrive and take care of Dooku. And then, they wouldn’t be wounded, so Dooku wouldn’t be able to distract Yoda, he would’ve been captured, and the Clone Wars would have ended before it even started. They would’ve had peace.

Instead, Anakin was angry that he had to leave Padmé behind, he was angry that about 80 of his Jedi friends were brutally murdered on Dooku’s orders, so he rushes at Dooku, gets taken out, leaving a tired Obi-Wan to fend for himself against a guy who was once the 2nd/3rd best duelist in the Jedi Order. And, when Yoda finally DOES arrive, the wounded Obi-Wan and Anakin become a burden, forcing Yoda to let Dooku go.

If Anakin had kept his emotions in check at that moment and focused on doing his duty, there would have been peace.

What a Jedi needs to is accept their emotions, face their fears and overcome them. This is a theme we see in many episodes of The Clone Wars, Rebels, and even in Jedi: Fallen Order.

As Luke puts it in The Rise of Skywalker:

“Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi.”

So when Obi-Wan or Padmé ask Anakin if he wants to talk about his feelings, about why he’s angry or jealous…

… and Anakin says stuff such as “I’m fine, I’m not angry!”, when he so clearly is, Anakin is basically running away from his emotions, repressing them, which is the opposite of what a Jedi does.

In fact, I’d argue the Jedi feel emotions on a whole other level. Their sense of compassion is so strong, they allow themselves to feel so much, that when a group of living beings begins to suffer, they just perceive all of it, and they open themselves up to the pain, they endure it.

How many times have we seen Yoda react to the pain someone else is going through? Like when he’s suffering because Anakin just lost his mom, or when he feels the Jedi dying during Order 66.

Also about being in a relationship...

The problem, for a Jedi, isn’t really being in a relationship. I mean, yeah, the rules say that you can’t get married because technically, if you’re a Jedi, you’re ‘married to the Order’. If you’re openly in a relationship, holding hands in the temple etc, that’s definitely gonna be frowned upon.

The spirit of the rule is that you can’t compromise your better judgment, your efficiency on a mission. And the book Master & Apprentice (my favorite canon novel so far) shows us that a Jedi trying to loophole their way out of these rules is basically inviting disaster.

But, on the other hand... we see in TCW that Mace Windu and Yoda clearly know there’s something going on between Anakin and Padmé, because they ask him for advice regarding Padmé (we see they know something during the Clovis episodes, plus the deleted Episode 2 scene between Obi-Wan and Windu).

And, like… they’re not giving him any crap for it.

It’s not as if he’s great at hiding it either!

If you watch any of the scenes where Anakin is talking about Padmé (because “they’re just really close friends”) to the Jedi in the Clovis arc, he is so blatantly lying and the masters are so obviously aware and just let him believe they don’t know.

They do tell him to watch out for his greed and keep his head together. But they don’t tell him “How dare you be in a relationship?! You are expelled!” or anything like that.

They trust that he’ll keep his head in the game, warn him to make sure he does.

Because, really, the problem isn’t loving someone, or being in a relationship. That’s fine. It’s about getting too possessive and toxic with that relationship. It’s about not causing others to suffer, directly or indirectly, because of your relationship.

The bottom line is: if a Jedi need to choose between the person they’re in love with and saving the galaxy, they need to save the galaxy, because that’s their duty.

As George Lucas said, on BBC News in 2002:

“Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships.”

And in Rolling Stones, in 2005:

“The story is not about a guy who was born a monster – it’s about a good boy who was loving and had exceptional powers, but how that eventually corrupted him and how he confused possessive love with compassionate love. That happens in Episode II: Regardless of how his mother died, Jedis are not supposed to take vengeance.”

And in 2019:

“He was kind, and sweet, and lovely, and he was then trained as a Jedi. But the Jedi can’t be selfish. They can love but they can’t love people to the point of possession. You can’t really possess somebody, because people are free. It’s possession that causes a lot of trouble, and that causes people to kill people, and causes people to be bad. Ultimately it has to do with being unwilling to give things up.”

Now, the Sith?

The Sith frame themselves as “the guys who will let you feel whatever you want”. And that’s just not true.

Sith are allowed to feel one kind of emotions. Anger, selfish pleasure, greed. The negative emotions, the ones that give you a brief boost in power/pleasure when you indulge them, but ultimately leave you empty inside.

Any other kind of feeling is seen as pointless, a distraction from the Sith’s goal of achieving unlimited power.

In the book From a Certain Point of View: The Empire Strikes Back, we get a glimpse into Sidious’ mind:

“Some might have felt a shadow of fear upon recognizing the disturbance, but Palpatine knew better than to ever give in to something as trivial as emotions. Those types of risks were shed long ago, in another lifetime. All he cared about was the source of the disturbance. ”

And in Darth Vader #6 (2020), when Vader was sad and depressed after seeing a recording of Padmé dying for the first time… Palpatine did this to him:

Because, like, how dare Vader have *gasp* a natural reaction to an emotionally hurtful event? Hell no! He needs to get his shit together and be a ruthless murderer again, amirite?

Cherry on the cake: in Legends, Sith Lord Darth Malgus killed his wife, Eleena, because he came to the conclusion that she was a weakness that he couldn’t afford to have.

No sadness or fear allowed, for the Sith. Just anger and suffering. Just lust for power. That’s it. Anything else is trivial, it’s a weakness.

So a Sith can’t be in relationship. Because they’re technically already in a relationship with themselves, with their master, and with the Dark Side. There isn’t any space for anyone else.

As Lucas puts it in this video:

“Being selfish, following your pleasures, always entertaining yourself with pleasure and buying things and doing stuff — you're always going to be unhappy. You'll never get to the point... you'll get this little instant shot of pleasure, but it goes away and then you're stuck where you were before, and the more you do it, the worse it gets. You finally get everything you want and you're miserable, because there's no... there's nothing at the end of that road.“

Finally, there’s this thing I saw, the other day… which is very heart-warming.

In 2015, Colin, an autistic 7-year-old, wrote to LucasFilm (thinking George Lucas was still there) asking for a rule change in the Jedi Order: he wanted to be able to get married, one day, but he reaaaallly didn’t wanna be a Sith.

This is what LucasFilm replied to him:

“To be a Jedi is to truly know the value of friendship, of compassion, and of loyalty, and these are values important in a marriage.

The Sith think inward, only of themselves.

When you find someone that you can connect to in a selfless way, then you are on the path of the light, and the dark side will not take hold of you. With this goodness in your heart, you can be married.”

This is in no way an official confirmation… but the spirit of it does echo George Lucas’ thoughts on the matter, I think. Take from it what you will.

So yeah, bottom line: Jedi can totally feel emotions. The Sith only allow themselves to feel a specific kind of emotions.

After comparing the two, I’d say that the Sith are the ones with the more limiting ideology.

[starwarsgm]

**BOOK OF BOBBA FETT SPOILERS**

-32 BBY, DAY OF ORDER 66

Commander Appo was suprised to be recalled to Coruscant, but was relieved to be given some down time after the crisis on Mandalore, after all, a posting to Corscant was always quiet, with Shock Troopers policing the surface levels, the 501sts role was purely support, and nothing of note ever happened...

When he recieved the order through his communicator, everything started to move quickly, from the moment of hearing the Emperors words, "Execute Order 66." to the arrival of Lord Vader, to the march of on the Jedi Temple, everything was a blur. A distant voice in his subconscious was questioning what he was doing, telling him to stop, asking him why he was mowing down the generals and padawans that had saved his life countless times, and who he had fought alongside for so long, but that voice was only getting quieter and quieter, as the pure rage and hatred for the Jedi Order grew and grew, his memories becoming more distant as he fired each shot, cutting down younglings that he had once sworn to protect, he began to think less and less, turning more emotionless by the minute, more droid like...

It was at that moment CT-1119 saw him, Grogu, the child of Yoda and Yaddle kept secret and hidden from the public chambers of the order for decades, as usual it was one rule for the masters, another for the rest, he was guarded by three jedi knights, but Appo was not worried, they dropped one by one as he led the charge forward, pointing towards the child for which he had orders to capture- it was imperative for the Emperor that he be brought forth to him, alive. It felt strange to the clone commander, he felt proud that the assignment had fallen to him, and he was not going to disappoint his majesty.

But at that moment, after the knights fell, seconds away from victory, out from the dust and grit of the dark crevess of the temple, a glistening purple blade ignited, and out stepped Mace Windu, robes tattered and bloodshed, but with a stone cold look of anger, and focus on his face, he raised an injured hand, pushing the commander down the hallway, he began to rip through the remaining clones with ease, striking them all down in a matter of seconds.

Then, he clicked off his blade and stumbled over to the child, picking him up and mounting the infant on his back, he disappeared back into the darkness almost as quickly as he appeared, leaving the hallway ablaze in ruin, Commander CT-1119 took a moment to take in the scene before him, he had hit his head on impact and now his mind was racing, remembering all the friends he had shot down, all the younglings he had slain, and in the moment, it all faded to black.

The last thought that raced through the Commanders head- was self hatred and regret.

[maaruin]

The Institutional Problems of the Jedi Order

Preface

I think it is time to finally write this post. These ideas have been going through my head for some time after reading some Jedi discourse. But I should preface this with: even though the Jedi made mistakes, this does not mean Palpatine’s genocide of them was justified. It only means that he saw certain flaws in the Order that he could exploit. I suspect that without these flaws, he probably still would have managed to take over and persecute the Jedi, but much more of the Order would have survived.

For this post, I am mostly using the prequel movies with a bit of lore added from the old Expanded Universe. I’m not using The Clone Wars, because its depiction of Anakin’s fall to the dark side is different from the movies. And I’m not using the new Disney Canon, because I don’t know what has been retconned so far and what hasn’t.

Depending on how we count, I think there were either two or four major flaws. I’ll number them as four, but the first three could be grouped together.

1. The Jedi Order is a religion but isn’t organized like one

The Jedi are a religion. They are a group that believes certain things about the universe and practices a way of life that fits with these beliefs. But they are also entirely organized as “Jedi Knights” who are “guardians of peace and justice in the [old] republic”. This is… odd. The entire religion is basically made up of full-time professionals. Or rather, monastics.

If you want to study the Force and use it, you have to become a monk, basically. And more than that, to be accepted you need to already have a special talent in using the Force. Actually, you can’t even do that, they only take toddlers, so your parents have to decide if you should join this religion and become a monk. (Or maybe the Jedi Order just takes all Force sensitive children no matter what the parents think, it’s not entirely clear.)

A normal religion isn’t organized like that. Normally most members of a religion are normal people with normal jobs with varying levels of devotion. They participate in the practices of the religion in a way that fits into their daily life. Then there are religious professionals like priests who work to make it possible for the normal followers to practice this religion. And then, in some religions, there are monastics who dedicate their life to practicing the religion, generally apart from the normal believers. The Jedi only have the last group.

That alone would make them much easier to target and wipe out. But it is even more like that. The entire Jedi Order is integrated into the institutional framework of the Republic. All of the higher ranked Jedi (we will talk about the lower ranked later) basically work as special police and special diplomats for the Republic. “and” not “or”, all of them must fulfill both roles. And, when the Clone Wars start, they all become officers in the Republic military.

Now, in principle I don’t think religious institutions working closely with the state and fulfilling important roles for it is necessarily a problem. But if this is the only way this religion can be practiced, the practice of this religion will become poor in variety and closed off to most people who would be interested in participating.

2. Slavery in the Galaxy

There is slavery in the Galaxy Far Far Away. It is illegal in the Galactic Republic, but it is widely practiced in the planets of the Outer Rim, which might or might not be members of the Republic. The Jedi know that slavery is bad. What should they do?

Well, as much as a like the image of a hundred Jedi waltzing into the Hutt Cartel and killing/arresting them all, that probably wouldn’t be the best idea and cause much more chaos and harm than it solves, at least in the short run. But there are alternatives besides doing that and mostly ignoring it. For a start, here are two:

Establish underground railroads to smuggle slaves to freedom or assist on already established ones. Jedi mind-reading and precognition abilities will be very helpful in such endeavors.

Assist in organizing and fighting in slave revolts. One Jedi can turn the tide on the battlefield and if they are respected diplomats, the can help the slaves in finding supporters.

But this isn’t what the Jedi do because they are preoccupied with their role in the Republic. Qui-Gon says to Anakin that he didn’t come to Tatooine to free slaves. Which is true, he was sent to assist the government of Naboo against the Trade Federation, not the slaves on Tatooine against the Hutts. And why was he sent to Naboo and not Tatooine? Because Chancellor Valorum decided that resisting the Trade Federation was in the interest of the Republic, but freeing slaves wasn’t.

As mentioned in part 1 the number of members of the Jedi religion is smaller than it should be and integrated into the Republic in a way that leaves little room for it to act independently.

3. The Clone Army

Suddenly, an army for the Republic conveniently appears in time when the Republic is about to go to war after centuries of peace. This army is made up of, for all intents and purposes, slaves. Slaves that have been bred to be especially obedient. The Republic is expecting the Jedi to serve as officers in this army. What should the Jedi do?

Serve as officers, because the clones would suffer more without them?

Refuse to serve because that would mean supporting the introduction of slavery into the Republic?

Throw their political weight around and demand the clone troopers be freed and given Republic citizenship and in addition demand an end of the clone production in return for serving in the war?

Serve on both sides of the clone wars because the Republic obviously doesn’t have the moral high ground anymore and if their service in the Republic army leads to less suffering, their service in the Separatist army will do so as well?

There are probably more options. The Jedi decided to pick the one that reduced the suffering of the clones in the short term, but by doing that squandered the opportunity to take a stance against the creation of the clone army. And we don’t even see meaningful discussion within the order about this choice. This is, I suspect, because the Jedi are so used to their role as enforcers in the Galactic Republic that the alternatives weren’t really on the table.

(Palpatine’s plan was counting on the Jedi to behave this way when he planned Order 66.)

4. Dealing with emotions (the problem with Anakin)

While the Jedi Order may not demand it’s members to be emotionless, it does demand that they keep their emotions under very strict control. Nonetheless, almost all the Jedi we see do seem to be emotionally well adjusted. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, all of them seem to have little trouble with this demand.

Anakin, on the other hand, has a lot of trouble with it. He often has emotional outbursts through Episode II and III, then shortly afterwards walks back and apologizes. Curiously, this isn’t the case in Episode I. There he is actually quite good in dealing with his emotions. In other words, his time in the Jedi Order made his ability to handle his own emotions worse. Much worse, actually.

I think the reason for this is that whenever he feels something, other Jedi tell him that this is not right. It starts with Yoda in Episode I. “Afraid are you? […] Fear is the path to the dark side... fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate.. hate leads to suffering.” Criticisms like this no doubt continued all the way through his training until, by the time of Episode II, every time he feels an emotion he is angry at himself for feeling that emotion, which leads to more emotional instability, not less.

But why is this a problem Anakin has and not for the other Jedi we see. Maybe it is because he started his training later than is normal for a Jedi. But I suspect it is something slightly different: The Jedi who go through their training either find a way to handle their emotions in a way the order approves of, or they are sorted out. In the Expanded Universe there is a so called Jedi Service Corps where Jedi who fail their training go to work as farmers, explorers, educators or medical assistants. These jobs are, however, seen as lesser and going there is considered a failure. This is unfortunate, I think the Jedi could do much more good in the galaxy if the best of them were able to work in different fields instead of all being stuck with warrior-diplomat. Nonetheless, the Service Corps actually mitigates one of the flaws the Order has to some extend, if it works like I suspect. If the Jedi don’t have a way of dealing with emotions that works for everyone, the next best thing is to only pick the ones that can handle it and put the rest somewhere where they are useful and can’t do damage. Certainly not ideal, but an understandable adjustment.

But anyways, Anakin wasn’t sorted out. It is never confirmed in the movies, but I would suspect they made an exception for him. Yoda already made an exception for him when they decided to train him at all. And because he was the chosen one, I think they thought that his potential would be wasted if he only got to be in the Service Corps. If we ignore the Service Corps and only go off the movies, my criticism still stands: Yoda recognized that Anakin might not handle Jedi training well and he should have stuck to his guns and refuse Anakin to be trained within the Jedi Order.

Why are the Jedi like this?

Personally, I like to explain these flaws of the Jedi Order historically. Now, the EU doesn’t really fit with the theory I have. Because in games like KotOR and SWtOR the Order seems very similar to the Order in the Prequels. On the other hand, other sources say that this structure of the Jedi Order is a product of the Ruusan Reformation which happened after the end of the last Sith War a thousand years before Episode I.

To defeat the Sith at the end of that war, all Jedi were brought together as one army, no matter what they had done before. They didn’t really defeat the Sith (the Sith were deceived by Darth Bane to destroy themselves), but they thought they did. They thought they almost single-handedly saved the Republic from destruction.

Because of this, they rebuilt the Jedi Order in a way that was explicitly integrated into the institutions of the Republic. They built it in a way that made the fighting Jedi the core of the Order, other forms of being a Jedi were downgraded to the Service Corps. Because many Jedi had fallen to the dark side in that war, they taught a very strict form of emotional control and only trained force-sensitives from birth. And because they were so linked to their role as enforcers for the Republic, the neglected many other things Jedi should do, like helping slaves free themselves.

A better Jedi Order

No matter if this is how it happened, I do think the Jedi Order could be different (better). Here is how I would change it:

A Jedi Laity: Every living being is connected to the Force, so let them participate in practices that serve this connection like Jedi meditation. They may never be able to move things with their mind, but that’s not the point.

Jedi who serve the people should live among them: Jedi priests, Jedi healers, and yes, even Jedi knights should not form their own community but instead be in the same community as the Jedi laity.

Monasteries for the monks: Jedi who fully want to focus on their connection with the Force could still live in monastic communities.

Don’t completely integrate into the state: Working with the Galactic Republic could still be a thing, but the Republic should never depend on the Jedi and only a minority of Jedi should serve the Republic directly.

Help people everywhere: Because they are not completely bound to the Republic, many Jedi can decide how they will serve the people in the galaxy. Some might decide to help the slaves in the Outer Rim.

A Variety of Emotion: Not every Jedi will be as capable of controlling their emotions as the others. If there is a large variety of ways to be a Jedi, I suspect that most of them could still find their place to fit into the Order.

Allow adults to join: With adults it is much easier to determine if they would make a good Jedi and what way of being a Jedi would suit them. If there is a Jedi laity, they can be trained as children to some degree before they decide if they want to join.

Would this Jedi Order have fallen to Palpatine’s manipulation? I don’t know. But I think it would have been harder for him. If most Jedi didn’t serve in the Republic military and weren’t in a small number of Jedi temples, Order 66 would have claimed much less of the Order. (Probably 10%-20% instead of >90%.) Jedi would find it much more easy to hide in the population and the laity could help carry on the Jedi traditions in secret. Anakin might have been more emotionally well adjusted and not fall for Palpatine’s manipulations. (On the other hand, in a more open Jedi Order like this, there might be more people who could be turned, so who knows.)

Well, this is my contribution the Jedi discourse. The Jedi aren’t evil, and they certainly didn’t deserve genocide because of this. But as the Prequels depict them, they have certain tragic flaws in the way they are organized that Palpatine could exploit.

(Maybe I’ll make a shorter Part 2 about how Luke deals with this.)

[gffa]

OKAY, IF I’M GONNA DO THIS, I’M GONNA DO IT PROPERLY.  WHICH MEANS YEAH IT’S GONNA GET REALLY LONG. A couple of things to say ahead of time:  Lucasfilm’s Story Group has always said CANON > WORD OF GOD when it comes to these matters, so when I quote canon examples from supplementary materials that contradict what he says, that’s LF’s official position, but that doesn’t mean that an influential person like Dave’s views couldn’t affect how things will be shaped in the future, like Deborah Chow listening to this may be influenced by it on the Obi-Wan show, despite that Master & Apprentice contradicts him.  It’s an incredibly murky area!  Mileages are going to vary.   Another thing to keep in mind is that Dave Filoni never worked on The Phantom Menace, that was long, long before his time at Lucasfilm (which I think he joined sometime around 2007? and TPM was released in 1999), that he has worked with George more than probably anyone else, but we cannot and should not treat him as infallible or the True Authority on things, because even Dave himself has said things like: “I mean, I know why I did that and what it means, but I don't like to explain too much. I love for the viewers to watch stuff and come up with their own theories -- and they frankly come up with better things that I intended.”  --Dave Filoni, Entertainment Tonight 2020 interview Or, in the same episode as the above Qui-Gon interpretation:

So, when I dig into this, I’m not doing this out of a sense of malice or even that I suddenly hate Dave or don’t appreciate all the incredible things he’s brought to SW, but in that I disagree with his take, Dave understands that he doesn’t always get it right, that he enjoys that fans come up with different things than he does and sometimes he likes those even more.  There’s room for both of us and, for all that Dave mentions George a lot (and, hey, fair enough, the guy worked with George and I’m just quoting what George Lucas has said) doesn’t mean that this is straight from George, especially because I have never seen George Lucas utter so much as a peep about how the Jedi were responsible for Anakin’s fall.  He has explicitly and frequently talked about how Anakin’s fall was his own choice, as well as I’ve never seen him say anything Jedi-critical beyond “they were kind of arrogant about themselves”.  I have read and watched every George Lucas interview I could get my hands on and maybe I’m still missing something, but that’s literally the extent of him criticizing the Jedi I have EVER seen. (It’s from the commentary on AOTC where he put in the scene with Jocasta to show they were full of themselves, but I also think it’s fair to point out that Obi-Wan immediately contradicts this by going to Dex for help, showing that it’s not necessarily a Jedi-wide thing.) Before I go further, I want to say:  this is not a post meant to tear down Qui-Gon, he is a character I actually really do love, but the focus is on showing why the above interpretation of him is wrong, which means focusing on Qui-Gon’s flaws. He has many wonderful qualities, he is someone who cared deeply and was a good person, I think things would have been better had he lived!  But Anakin’s choices did not hinge on him, because Anakin’s choices were Anakin’s, that has always been the consistent theme of how George talks about him, the way he talks about the story is always in terms of “Anakin did this” or “Anakin chose that”, and the Jedi are very consistently shown as caring, they believed very much in love and Dave’s own show (well, I say “his own show”, but honestly TCW was George’s baby primarily and he had a lot of direct, hands-on say in crafting it, through at least the first five seasons) is plenty of evidence of that. I’m not going to quote the full thing because this is already a monster post, I’m just going to focus on the Jedi stuff, because I like the other points a lot, but if you want the full text, it’s here.  The relevant part is: “In Phantom Menace, you’re watching these two Jedi in their prime fight this evil villain. Maul couldn’t be more obviously the villain. He’s designed to look evil, and he is evil, and he just expresses that from his face all the way out to the type of lightsaber he fights with. What’s at stake is really how Anakin is going to turn out. Because Qui-Gon is different than the rest of the Jedi and you get that in the movie; and Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows he’s the father that Anakin needs. Because Qui-Gon hasn’t given up on the fact that the Jedi are supposed to actually care and love and that’s not a bad thing. The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they become so political that they’ve really lost their way and Yoda starts to see that in the second film. But Qui-Gon is ahead of them all and that’s why he’s not part of the council. So he’s fighting for Anakin and that’s why it’s the ‘Duel of the Fates’ – it’s the fate of this child. And depending on how this fight goes, Anakin, his life is going to be dramatically different. “So Qui-Gon loses, of course. So the father figure, he knew what it meant to take this kid away from his mother when he had an attachment, and he’s left with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon, not because he cares about him. When they get Anakin, they find him on Tatooine, he says “Why do I feel like we’ve found another useless lifeform?” He’s comparing Anakin to Jar Jar and he’s saying “this is a waste of our time, why are we doing this, why do you see importance in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks and this ten-year-old boy? This is useless.” “So, he’s a brother to Anakin eventually but he’s not a father figure. That’s a failing for Anakin. He doesn’t have the family that he needs. He loses his mother in the next film. He fails on this promise that he made, “mother, I’m going to come back and save you”. So he’s left completely vulnerable and Star Wars is ultimately about family. So that moment in that movie which a lot of people I think diminish, “oh there’s a cool lightsaber fight”, but it’s everything that the entire three films of the prequels hangs on, is that one particular fight. And Maul serves his purpose and at that point died before George made me bring him back, but he died.“  --Dave Filoni  I’m going to take this a piece at a time to show why I really disagree with the content of both the movies and The Clone Wars supporting what Dave says and, instead, contradicts it a lot. The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they become so political that they’ve really lost their way and Yoda starts to see that in the second film. He doesn’t explain what this means, but I’m pretty sure that he’s referring to this conversation: OBI-WAN: “I am concerned for my Padawan. He is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet.” YODA: “The Council is confident in its decision, Obi-Wan.” MACE WINDU: “The boy has exceptional skills.” OBI-WAN: “But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him... well.... arrogant.” YODA: “Yes, yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Hmm... too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones.” MACE WINDU: “Remember, Obi-Wan, if the prophecy is true, your apprentice is the only one who can bring the Force back into balance.” OBI-WAN: "If he follows the right path.” None of that has anything to do with being “detached” and, further, I think this is something that’s come up with Dave’s view of Luminara a lot, because he’s described her (re: the Geonosis arc):  “We were trying to illustrate the difference between the way Anakin is raising his Padawan, and how much he cares about her, and the way Luminara raises her Padawan. Not that Luminara is indifferent, but that Luminara is detached. It’s not that she doesn’t care, but she’s not attached to her emotionally.” Here, he says that the Jedi care, in the above, he says that the Jedi don’t care, which makes me think there’s a lot of characterization drift as time goes on, especially when fandom bombards everyone with the idea that the Jedi were cold, emotionless, and didn’t care.  However, look at Luminara’s face in that arc, when she’s talking with Anakin:

That is not the face of someone who doesn’t care.  She even smiles brightly in relief when Barriss is shown to be okay, that this really doesn’t convey “detached” in an unloving or uncaring way.  (We’ll get to attachment later, that’s definitely coming.) (I’m also mostly skipping the political thing, because I think that’s just a fundamental disagreement of whether Jedi should or should not lean into politics.  My view basically boils down to that I think ALL OF US should be leaning more into politics because we are citizens who live in the world and are responsible for it, and the Jedi are no different.  This is evidenced by:  - M&A’s storyline has Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan saving the day specifically because they play politics, that’s how they manage to free the slaves, through playing politics and being part of the Republic/having Senate backing. - The Clone Wars has shown that the Jedi believe “lasting change can only come from within” and “it’s every citizen’s duty to hold their leaders accountable” when Ahsoka teaches the cadets on Mandalore, as well as that politics are not inherently bad, given that Padme and Bail are working to make the system better or “create lasting change from within [the system]” - "Trying to serve the greater good does not always make you popular” says Padme Amidala in a very caring speech - Star Wars Propaganda makes the case that the Jedi might have won the war had they leaned more into politics. - Sometimes the Jedi get unfairly accused of playing politics when there’s just no good choice and they still have to choose one or the other.) But Qui-Gon is ahead of them [re: caring and loving] all and that’s why he’s not part of the council. This is flat-out wrong in regards to canon.  Mileages are going to vary, of course, on how much one takes a novel into consideration, but Dave Filoni is not a fan with the luxury of deciding what is or isn’t canon, he works on Star Wars where canon is canon.  Now, does that mean canon will never contradict itself, especially if Dave gets to write something for Qui-Gon?  Of course not, SW isn’t immune to continuity errors and they themselves have never said otherwise, even when fans want to hold them to that standard. However, this is still pretty much a big “that’s not what happened” instance.  In Master & Apprentice, the Jedi Council offer a seat to Qui-Gon on the Council, specifically BECAUSE he has different opinions from them and they welcome that.  (Excerpt here.)      “We hope it will also be our gain,” Mace replied. “Qui-Gon Jinn, we hereby offer you a seat on the Jedi Council.”      Had he misheard? No, he hadn’t. Qui-Gon slowly gazed around the circle, taking in the expressions of each Council member in turn. Some of them looked amused, others pleased. A few of them, Yoda included, appeared more rueful than not. But they were serious.      “I admit—you’ve surprised me,” Qui-Gon finally said.“I imagine so,” Mace said drily. “A few years ago, we would’ve been astonished to learn we would ever consider this. But in the time since, we’ve all changed. We’ve grown. Which means the possibilities have changed as well.”      Qui-Gon took a moment to collect himself. Without any warning, one of the turning points of his life had arrived. Everything he said and did in the next days would be of great consequence. “You’ve argued with my methods often as not, or perhaps you’d say I’ve argued with yours.”      “Truth, this is,” Yoda said.      Depa Billaba gave Yoda a look Qui-Gon couldn’t interpret. “It’s also true that the Jedi Council needs more perspectives.” Ultimately, Qui-Gon is the who turns them down and gives up a chance to shape the Jedi Council because he doesn’t like the shape they’re taking.  That he does become less political, but this is after he’s argued that the Jedi should be working to push the Senate harder, so when he has a chance to help with that, he turns it down.  It has nothing to do with caring and loving, it’s about Qui-Gon’s desire to not have to deal with the work himself, when he wants to be more of a hippie Jedi.  (I’ve written a lot about Qui-Gon in M&A, why I actually think it’s really spot-on to someone who can be both really kind and really kind of a dick, but it’s not the most flattering portrayal, even if narrative intention likely didn’t mean what came across to me.  I think this post and this post are probably the most salient ones, but if you want something of an index of the web that’s being woven with all the various media, this one is good, too.) So he’s fighting for Anakin and that’s why it’s the ‘Duel of the Fates’ – it’s the fate of this child. And depending on how this fight goes, Anakin, his life is going to be dramatically different. I have only ever seen George Lucas talk about Anakin’s fate in one instance and it’s this:  “It’s fear of losing somebody he loves, which is the flipside of greed. Greed, in terms of the Emperor, it’s the greed for power, absolute power, over everything. With Anakin, really it’s the power to save the one he loves, but it’s basically going against the Fates and what is natural.“ –George Lucas, Revenge of the Sith commentary I’ve made my case about why I think Anakin’s fate is about that moment in Palpatine’s office, and so I’m not fundamentally opposed that “Duel of the Fates” is about Anakin’s fate, but here’s what George has provably said about the “Duel of the Fates” part of the story: - In the commentary for The Phantom Menace during “Duel of the Fates” and none of Dave’s speculation is even hinted at, there’s more focus on the technical side of things and the most George talks about is that it’s Obi-Wan who parallels Luke in going over the edge during the fight, except that instead of a Sith cutting off a Jedi’s hand, it’s a Jedi cutting a Sith in half, drawing the parallels between them. - He does say of the funeral scene that this is where Obi-Wan commits to training Anakin and how everything is going to go (though, in canon we see that Obi-Wan still struggles with this a bit, but Yoda is there to support him and nudge him into committing even more to Anakin, because the Jedi are a supportive community to each other).  This is some solid evidence for that Obi-Wan is already caring about Anakin beyond just Qui-Gon. - Then here’s what he says about the “Duel of the Fates” fights and themes of them in "All Films Are Personal": George Lucas: “I wanted to come up with an apprentice for the Emperor who was striking and tough. We hadn’t seen a Sith Lord before, except for Vader, of course. I wanted to convey the idea that Jedi are all very powerful, but they’re also vulnerable — which is why I wanted to kill Qui-Gon. That is to say, “Hey, these guys aren’t Superman.” These guys are people who are vulnerable, just like every other person. “We needed to establish that, but at the same time, we wanted the ultimate sword fight, because they were all very good. It sort of predisposes the sword fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan later on. There’s real purpose to it. You have to establish the rules and then stick with them. The scene illustrates just how Jedi and Sith fight and use lightsabers.” “So Qui-Gon loses, of course. So the father figure, he knew what it meant to take this kid away from his mother when he had an attachment, and he’s left with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon, not because he cares about him.  We’ll get to the “attachment to his mother” thing in a bit--but, for now, let’s just say, George Lucas’ words on this are not that attachment to her was a good thing. Fair enough that “not because he cares about him” is up to personal interpretation, but canon has also addressed the topic of Obi-Wan’s treatment of Anakin and Obi-Wan stepped up to the plate on this.  In addition to how we see Obi-Wan REPEATEDLY being there for Anakin and being concerned and caring about him, they specifically talk about Qui-Gon and overcome this hurdle.

No, Obi-Wan is not Anakin’s father figure, on that we definitely agree.  Anakin never really even treats Obi-Wan like a father--he says “you’re the closest thing I have to a father” in Attack of the Clones, as well as he says Obi-Wan practically raised him in The Clone Wars “Crystal Crisis” story reels, but Anakin has never actually acted like Obi-Wan is his father--”then why don’t you listen to me?” Obi-Wan points out in AOTC--as well as Obi-Wan glides past those remarks, which I’ve always taken that he doesn’t want to reject Anakin’s feelings, knowing that Anakin can be sensitive about them, but neither does he want to confirm them. This does not mean Obi-Wan was not supportive, caring, and loving.  He says, “I loved you!” to Anakin in Revenge of the Sith, he asks after him and if he’s sleeping well in Attack of the Clones, and even George Lucas himself said that the elevator scene was set up TO SHOW OBI-WAN AND ANAKIN CARE FOR EACH OTHER:

PUTTING THE REST UNDER A READ MORE FOR A BETTER LENGTH REBLOGGABLE VERSION, IF  YOU WANT.

This is further evidenced by how the Jedi do see themselves as family, they just don’t need to put it into strict nuclear family dynamics:     - “You were my brother, Anakin!  I loved you!”  [–Obi-Wan Kenobi, Revenge of the Sith]      - “We are brothers, Master Dibs.” [–Mace Windu, Jedi of the Republic - Mace Windu]      - “Did your parents bicker?” she asked. “The adoptive ones, I mean.”         A slow smile broke across Ashla’s face, curling first one side of her mouth and then the other. Whatever she was remembering, Kaeden could tell it was good.         "All the time,“ Ashla said, almost as if she were talking to herself. [–Kaeden Larte, Ahsoka Tano, Ahsoka]      -  Vos, brought to the Temple even younger than most, felt that he had hundreds of brothers and sisters, and it seemed that whenever he went into the dining hall he ran into at least half of them. [Dark Disciple]       - “It was not his birthplace, exactly, but the Jedi Temple was where Quinlan Vos had grown up. He’d raced through its corridors, hidden behind its massive pillars, found peace in its meditation hall, ended-and started-fights in rooms intended for striking blows and some that weren’t, and sneaked naps in its library. All Jedi came here, at some point in their lives; for Quinlan, it always felt like coming home when he ran lightly up the stairs and entered the massive building as he did now.” [Dark Disciple] Brothers, sisters, and other more non-traditional kinds of family are not lesser and Obi-Wan and Anakin absolutely were family, just as the Jedi are all family to each other, so, no, there was no “failing” Anakin, except in Anakin’s mind, perhaps.  (In that, I can agree.  But not on a narratively approved level, canon too thoroughly refutes that for me.) Rebels as well pretty thoroughly shows that non-traditional families are meaningful and just as important--we may joke that Hera is “space mom”, but she’s not actually Ezra or Sabine’s mother, Kanan is not actually their father, and even if they sometimes stray into aspects of those roles (as the Jedi do as well in the movies and TCW), that they don’t need that traditional nuclear family structure.  Mentor figures--and Kanan is Ezra’s mentor--are just as meaningful and needful as a “dad”.  And I’m kind of :/ at the implication that anyone without a dad/father figure or mom/mother figure is being “failed”. When they get Anakin, they find him on Tatooine, he says “Why do I feel like we’ve found another useless lifeform?” He’s comparing Anakin to Jar Jar and he’s saying “this is a waste of our time, why are we doing this, why do you see importance in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks and this ten-year-old boy? This is useless.” Whether or not Obi-Wan is being genuinely dismissive in this movie (I think you could make a case either way), the idea that Qui-Gon is better than Obi-Wan about this, as shown through Jar Jar isn’t exactly very supported given how Qui-Gon and Jar Jar first exchange words:

QUI-GON: “You almost got us killed. Are you brainless?”   JAR JAR:  “I spake.”   QUI-GON: “The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.” Qui-Gon is just as bad as everyone else to Jar Jar, he’s not somehow elevated above them. It’s also baffling because, Dave, I have watched your show.  The Jedi are specifically shown to be kind to people and creatures, not considering them “useless”.  Henry Gilroy (who was the co-writer for The Clone Wars and frequently appeared in featurettes on the same level as Dave Filoni) explicitly draws this to The Jedi Way, that “life is everything to the Jedi“, when he said this about the Ryloth episodes:

(Caps cribbed from Pan’s blog, because I cannot make another gif, save me, please.)      Henry Gilroy in an Aggressive Negotiations Interview:  "Obi-Wan truly is a Jedi in that he’s like, ‘Okay, I’m not going to murder these creatures [in the Ryloth arc of The Clone Wars].  They’re starving to death.  They’ve basically been unleashed against these people as a weapon, but it’s not their fault. They’re just doing what they do.  They’re just animals who wanna eat.’     "So the idea was–and I think there was an early talk about how, 'Oh, yeah, he’ll go running through them and slicing and dicing them and chop them all up or whatever, and save his guys.  And I’m like, 'Yeah, but that’s not really the Jedi way.  He’s not just gonna murder these creatures.’     "And I know the threat is [there], to save one life you have to take one, but the idea of him [is]: why can’t Obi-Wan just be more clever?  He basically draws them in and then traps them.     "It says something about who the Jedi are, they don’t just waste life arbitrarily.  And someone could have gone, 'Oh, yeah, but it would have been badass if he’d just ran in there with his lightsaber spinning and stabbed them all in the head!’  And 'Yeah, you’re right, I guess he could be that, but he’s trying to teach his clones a lesson right then, about the sanctity of life.’       "That is the underlying theme of that entire episode.  Which is:  A tactical droid is using the people as living shields.  Life means nothing to the Separatists.  The droids.  But life is everything to the Jedi.  And even though he doesn’t have to say that, it’s all through the episode thematically.“ It’s also Obi-Wan who teaches Anakin about kindness to mindless creatures in the Obi-Wan & Anakin comic:

"These beasts are nearly mindless, Anakin.  I can feel it.  They are merely following their nature, they should not die simply because they crossed our path. Use the Force to send them on their way.” Now, fair enough if you want to say Obi-Wan was taught by Qui-Gon, but also Qui-Gon is dead by that point and Obi-Wan growing into being more mature is his own accomplishment, not Qui-Gon’s, especially given that we see Qui-Gon himself being pretty dismissive to Jar Jar in TPM. This isn’t unique thing either, Padme is incredibly condescending to Jar Jar in “Bombad Jedi” and expresses clear annoyance with him to C-3PO when sighing over him.  Jar Jar is a character you kind of have to warm up to, pretty much the only one we’ve seen consistently being favorable to him is Yoda (and maybe Anakin, though, Anakin doesn’t really interact with him a ton) and Mace Windu warms up to him considerably in “The Disappeared” and even specifically is shown to be teaching him and helping him, which is a huge theme of the Jedi and how much they care.

So, ultimately, the point I’m winding my way towards is--the other Jedi do show kindness and consideration to Jar Jar Binks, including characters like Mace Windu, so if you’re judging the Jedi based on that, the conclusion of Qui-Gon somehow being more compassionate and loving is really pretty thoroughly disproved by The Phantom Menace and The Clone Wars themselves. So, he’s a brother to Anakin eventually but he’s not a father figure. That’s a failing for Anakin. He doesn’t have the family that he needs. He loses his mother in the next film. He fails on this promise that he made, “mother, I’m going to come back and save you”. So he’s left completely vulnerable and Star Wars is ultimately about family.  You could be charitable and say this is just from Anakin’s point of view that it’s a “failing”, but within the context of what Dave’s saying, it’s clearly meant as a more narratively approved take, not just Anakin’s point of view, and I really, really dislike the idea that Anakin--or anyone, really--needs a traditional nuclear family, ie a “mom” and/or a “dad”, or else it’s a “failing” for them. Setting aside that the idea that Qui-Gon would need to be Anakin’s dad to be kind to hi (which is ?????) is contradicted by The Clone Wars as well.  Yes, Qui-Gon is warm with Anakin in several scenes, which is what Dave is presumably drawing on to show that Qui-Gon believed the Jedi should be caring and loving, but you know who else is warm to younglings?  OTHER JEDI COUNCIL MEMBERS.

Those two scenes have the exact same kind of warmth to them.  Ie, THE JEDI ALL BELIEVED IN BEING LOVING AND KIND, NOT JUST QUI-GON.  The things evidenced to show Qui-Gon was loving and kind are evidenced just as much in other Council members, in Dave’s own show. As a bonus--have Mace Windu, known Jedi Council member, being super kind and loving towards a young Twi’lek girl he just met in a canon comic:

But I know that this is about the way the Council treated Anakin in The Phantom Menace testing scene, but here’s the thing--when I go back and I watch that scene and the Jedi aren’t ever mean to him, they’re neutral in an official testing situation, where they are trying to determine if he’s able to adapt to the Jedi ways.  They never once say he’s bad for holding onto his fear, only that he does--which Anakin digs his heels in and gets angry about, he can’t really even admit that he’s afraid and that’s a huge deal for the Jedi. I’ve made a longer post about it here (and here), but the basic gist is: - That scene has Yoda giving the famous “Fear leads to the dark side” speech which is almost word for word how George Lucas describes how the Force works, showing the Jedi are narratively correct - “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi” may be from the sequels, but it is thoroughly supported by the movies and TCW and Rebels and even supplementary canon material, including that the Jedi literally design their tests around both Masters and Padawans for it (Ilum, the Jedi Temple on Lothal, etc. - Anakin cannot admit to his fears in that TPM scene - We have examples of Jedi younglings do admit to their fears and the point isn’t not to have them, but to face them--the younglings in “The Gathering” are the most blatant example of this, but it’s also pretty much the entire theme of Jedi: Fallen Order, especially when Cal goes to Ilum to face his fears and get another kyber crystal. The point isn’t that Anakin--who has very good reasons to be afraid! nothing in the story or the Jedi have said he didn’t!--is wrong or bad, but that he’s not a great fit for the Jedi life because he is “unwilling to accept [Jedi philosophy] emotionally”.  And they’re right about this, because this is how George Lucas describes Anakin in commentary: “The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can’t hold onto things, which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn’t willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he’d have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn’t have this particular connection as strong as it is and he’d have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them.”  --George Lucas, Attack of the Clones commentary And so this brings us to A T T A C H M E N T, which, yeah, we’ve been having this discussion forever, but I’m going to state it again:  Within Star Wars, ATTACHMENT IS NARRATIVELY A BAD THING.  It is consistently tied to possessive, obsessive relationships, to greed and an unwillingness to let things go when it’s time (letting go is a huge theme in Star Wars) and equating love with attachment is fundamentally wrong according to George Lucas’ Star Wars worldbuilding: “The Jedi are trained to let go. They’re trained from birth,” he continues, “They’re not supposed to form attachments. They can love people-- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can’t form attachments. So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death.” --George Lucas, The Making of Revenge of the Sith If attachment and love were the same thing, then he would be saying, “They should love their enemies, they should love the Sith.  But they can’t love.”  The way George makes the distinction shows that, no, attachment and love aren’t the same thing at all, attachment is not caring.  Further, there’s another instance of him showing there’s an important distinction between relationships and attachment and the association of attachmets with possession:  "Jedi Knights aren’t celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships.” --George Lucas, BBC News interview So, yes, when Anakin is attached to people, it is directly tied to obsession, possession, and greed, all things of the dark side: “He turns into Darth Vader because he gets attached to things. He can’t let go of his mother; he can’t let go of his girlfriend. He can’t let go of things. It makes you greedy. And when you’re greedy, you are on the path to the dark side, because you fear you’re going to lose things, that you’re not going to have the power you need.”  --George Lucas, Time Magazine  “But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the dark side. I mean he’s been prepping for this, but that’s the one where he’s sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate.“ --George Lucas, Attack of the Clones commentary ATTACHMENT IS BAD IN STAR WARS AS THEY DEFINE IT. Finally, I’m going to circle back to: Because Qui-Gon is different than the rest of the Jedi and you get that in the movie; and Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows he’s the father that Anakin needs. Because Qui-Gon hasn’t given up on the fact that the Jedi are supposed to actually care and love and that’s not a bad thing. Here’s the thing about this:  You know who else, by this logic, Qui-Gon should have been a father to?  OBI-WAN KENOBI. This isn’t said as “Anakin specifically needs a father” (which I think would be an interesting idea to bandy about and I’m not disagreeing, though, it’s complicated because of what Anakin refuses to accept emotionally), it’s said in a bigger context, that Qui-Gon is better than the other Jedi because he understands the need for fathers (and thus this ties into Return of the Jedi) and he’s ahead of the other Jedi, who apparently think loving and caring about people are bad things, but Qui-Gon does not treat Obi-Wan like his son.  Or, if he does, he’s not exactly a stellar dad about it. Within Master & Apprentice, there’s an incredibly consistent theme of how Qui-Gon thinks supportive things about Obi-Wan, but never says them aloud.  He thinks he should talk to Obi-Wan about the upcoming decision to be on the Council and then never does.  He could have explained why he kept Obi-Wan training the basics but he never does.  There are multiple instances showing that Qui-Gon is actually really, really bad at actually handling a young apprentice who needs him to talk to them about important things.  Qui-Gon continues this in From a Certain Point of View where he still never talked to Obi-Wan about everything that happened, even after he became a Force Ghost.     Damn, damn, damn. Qui-Gon closed his eyes for one moment. It blocked nothing; the wave of shock that went through Obi-Wan was so great it could be felt through the Force. Qui-Gon hadn’t thought Kirames Kaj would mention the Jedi Council invitation. It seemed possible the soon-retiring chancellor of the Republic might not even have taken much note of information about a new Council member. --Master & Apprentice     That comment finally pierced Qui-Gon’s damnable calm. There was an edge to his voice as he said, “I suspected you would be too upset to discuss this rationally. Apparently I was correct.”     “I thought you said my reaction was understandable,” Obi-Wan shot back. “So why does it disqualify me from hearing the truth?”    Qui-Gon put his hands on his broad belt, the way he did when he was beginning to withdraw into himself. “…we should discuss this at another time. Neither of us is his best self at the present.” --Master & Apprentice     Obi-Wan walked toward the door, obviously outdone. “At the beginning of my apprenticeship, I couldn’t understand you,” he said. “Unfortunately, that’s just as true here at the end.”     Only yesterday they had worked together as never before. How did Qui-Gon manage to get closer to Obi-Wan at the same time he was moving further away?     Just before Obi-Wan would leave the room, Qui-Gon said, “Once, you asked me about the basic lightsaber cadences. Why I’d kept you there, instead of training you in more advanced forms of combat.”     Obi-Wan turned reluctantly to face him again. “I suppose you thought I wasn’t ready for more. The same way I’m not ready to believe in all this mystical—”     “That’s not why.”     After a long pause, Obi-Wan calmed to the point where he would listen. “Then why, Qui-Gon?”     “Because many Padawans—and full Jedi Knights, for that matter—forget that the most basic technique is the most important technique. The purest. The most likely to protect you in battle, and the foundation of all knowledge that is to come,” Qui-Gon said. “Most apprentices want to rush ahead to styles of fighting that are flashier or more esoteric. Most Masters let them, because we must all find our preferred form eventually. But I wanted you to be grounded in your technique. I wanted you to understand the basic cadences so well that they would become instinct, so that you would be almost untouchable. Above all, I wanted to give you the training you needed to accomplish anything you set your mind to later on.”     Obi-Wan remained quiet for so long that Qui-Gon wondered if he were too angry to really hear any of what he’d said. But finally, his Padawan nodded. “Thank you, Qui-Gon. I appreciate that. But—”     “But what?”     “You could’ve said so,” Obi-Wan replied, and then he left. --Master & Apprentice     "I owe you that. After all, I’m the one who failed you.“     "Failed me?”     They have never spoken of this, not once in all Qui-Gon’s journeys into the mortal realm to commune with him. This is primarily because Qui-Gon thought his mistakes so wretched, so obvious, that Obi-Wan had wanted to spare him any discussion of it. Yet here, too, he has failed to do his Padawan justice. --From a Certain Point of View, “Master and Apprentice” (Further, in Master & Apprentice, Qui-Gon thinks that the Jedi give Rael Averross--who is HUGELY paralleled to Anakin--too many exceptions, were too soft on him because he came to the Jedi later than most and has trouble thinking of them as his family, and he thinks they should have been stricter with him.) It’s also readily apparent within The Phantom Menace itself:

You can take some charitable views of this scene, that Qui-Gon was pushed into a corner where he had few other options (and this is the view I generally take even!), but this is after the entire movie where he’s never once indicated that Obi-Wan was ready, has instead indicated that he still has much to learn (not just of the Living Force, but in general), as well as made it clear that he’s still teaching Obi-Wan, like on the Trade Federation ship. And I do think Obi-Wan got over this because he understood, because Obi-Wan actually is a very selfless person, he clearly cares (which is furthered by how we see him warm up to Anakin very quickly), but look at their faces. This was not a good moment, and they do somewhat make up, where Qui-Gon says that Obi-Wan has been a good apprentice, that he’s wiser than Qui-Gon and he’ll be a great Jedi--but if we’re counting that as Qui-Gon being this great Jedi, then you can’t say Obi-Wan failed Anakin, given that we show him doing the exact same thing, except better.  He tells Anakin, “You are strong and wise and will become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be.”, echoing Qui-Gon’s words, but also he never threw Anakin aside for someone else. This is kind of a major undercurrent throughout The Clone Wars, where Obi-Wan never takes another apprentice, where he continues to teach Anakin, to support him, even to the point of occasionally co-Mastering Ahsoka with him.  “This has been quite a journey for our Padawan.” Qui-Gon’s treatment of Obi-Wan in this scene isn’t the worst, he’s kind about it later (though, he never actually specifically apologizes for this), but we can see that this is a moment where Qui-Gon hurts Obi-Wan and knows it. And you know what George Lucas has to say about Qui-Gon?  This: “So here we’re having Qui-Gon wanting to skip the early training and jump right to taking him on as his Padawan learner, which is controversial, and ultimately, the source of much of the problems that develop later on.”  –George Lucas, The Phantom Menace commentary There’s nothing about Qui-Gon being right or better than the other Jedi, but instead that Qui-Gon’s actions here are a source of much of the problems that develop later on. So, ultimately, I liked some points Dave made in that speech, it’s a beautiful and eloquent one, but I thoroughly disagree with his interpretation of George’s intentions for Qui-Gon and I thoroughly disagree that that’s what the movies, The Clone Wars (DAVE’S OWN SHOW), and the supplementary canon show about Qui-Gon and the other Jedi.  I still stand by my appreciation of Dave’s contributions to SW as a whole, I think he does a really good job at making Star Wars, but he doesn’t always get everything right and this is one thing where I think the canon and George’s commentary show otherwise, as much as I love his desire to defend the prequels’ importance in the story.  Because, my friend, I have felt that every single day of my SW life.

[stairset]

Noah fence but I think it's annoying how some of you guys forget that Jango Fett was like. A villain. Like obviously I sympathize with Boba but some of y'all will be like "Oh Mace Windu is an emotionless monster for killing Jango" and I'm like sir he was literally being shot at.