#Mazovian Socio-Economics

[tavosketch]

"This is a man with a lot of past, but little present. And almost no future."

[punksdocrimes]

Banned from life for being too hot

Also finally ordered a vial of Estradiol Enanthate so I can start DIYing

[txttletale]

the reason that thinking about communism too much in disco elysium makes you suicidal but organizing with other communists leads to a moment of singular wonder and provides hope that miracles can happen is because thats what being a communist is like in real life

[familyabolisher]

i'm sorry in advance for asking you about what was essentially, a small part of a month old jokey reply to a post. that said, what would you consider the implications of the "this world is enough" quote being said by specifically Joyce Messier to be, along with the ensuing "(...) this is the greatest and kindest arrangement the atoms had in them"... it's just that this is one of my favourite quotes in the game and your post made me realize I had been engaging with it in a rather superficial way.

It’s a very beautifully worded passage, which I think contributes in large part to why people latch onto it so much. Unfortunately, it tends to fall victim to the classic phenomenon whereby lines which are rhetorically effective and on the surface appear to articulate a clear and compelling sentiment find themselves isolated from their broader textual context in fan reception & thus taken at face value. The full passage is:

JOYCE MESSIER - "Great bodies of water, forest-covered surfaces... clusters of light where the cities lie. You've seen the montage, we all have -- this world is enough," she concludes.

CONCEPTUALIZATION - It *must* be. This is the greatest and kindest arrangement the atoms had in them.

Stripped of its political teeth, I imagine the idea of a world composed of the ‘greatest and kindest’ arrangement of atoms is somewhat comforting, as a poetic expression of a sentiment of hope and optimism for the world around you and for yourself in turn. However, it just can’t be easily cleaved away from the fact that Disco Elysium is an overtly and unsubtly political game; it’s a game about communism, and it’s a game which thinks about communism in such a way that the sentiment given here is undercut at just about every turn.

We see that this idea of a ‘greatest and kindest arrangement’ is coming in response to Joyce’s statement that ‘this world is enough.’ Joyce, in-game, is an ultraliberal strikebreaker invested with a huge amount of power relative to capitalist hegemony; put simply, she is not someone whose political voice is one with which the narrative aligns. To think about the present condition of the world as ‘enough’—and to respond, as does Harry’s Conceptualisation, with the suggestion that anything else would be less great and less kind than they are at present (such that all failings of greatness and kindness in the present state can be countered with the superlative)—is a sentiment coming from someone for whom the continuation of the capitalist social condition is hugely beneficial. Put simply, Disco Elysium, read holistically, is just not a game which believes that the capitalist social condition is ‘enough,’ and nor that it is the ‘greatest and kindest arrangement.’

Like—the game takes great pains to suggest that capitulating to the inevitability of the present condition only reveals the limitations of one’s framework. Time and time again, the game makes appeals to inevitability—of the fall of the commune, of the expansion of the pale and the consumption of Elysium—only to suggest that it is only by imagining a total rearrangement of the atoms, if you will, that we can prevent it. I wrote in more detail about this reading here if you’re interested, but the long and short of it is: the presence of the anomaly in the Dolorian church guides us as players towards the idea that the entropy of the pale is a construction of Dolorian moralism, which is to say, capitalist hegemony; the fact that infra-materialism, a theory of Mazovian socio-economics, suggests at the defiance of traditional laws of physics in a manner that may at first seem absurd but by the end of the communist plotline is proven possible in the fact that the tower is able to stand up on its own is in turn a suggestion that the pale’s entropy, too, is a ‘fact’ only inasmuch as it exists within the boundaries of what hegemony has termed factual. If the tower can stand, why can’t the world be overhauled at such a fundamental level that the expansion of the pale could be stopped and the Moralintern could be evaporated? This is the sentiment of the communist quest; rather than accepting the present condition of things (the “greatest and kindest” such that nothing else could possibly be better—it is worth remembering that greatest and kindest does not necessarily mean great or kind), the very belief that they could be changed is what allows change to take place. This is the sentiment communicated in Steban’s “In dark times, should the stars also go out?”.

My comment on the original post was just me being slightly glib about the fact that people consistently latch onto that line out of context. It’s a good line—it’s prettily expressed, and it’s certainly helpful for articulating the different political conditions at play in the game. However, I’m not convinced people are engaging with it in a way that fairly accounts for what it does relative to the rest of the text. This tendency to latch onto poetic language at the expense of thinking seriously about what the sentiment in question actually communicates reminds me of what Evrart says of Joyce:

You - "But she told me a beautiful story about the discovery of the Insulinde."

Evrart Claire - "Of course she did. Rich people have the best stories. About all the interesting things they've done and seen, all the beautiful places they've been to. It's just sentimentalism. She can afford to be sentimental -- and she can afford to lose as well."

I wouldn’t reify Evrart as the voice of the working class in Disco Elysium either, but I think this particular line cuts to the quick about how Joyce’s elevated, obscurantist language often makes it difficult for players to situate what she says within the context from which she appears to us.

[palin-tropos]

what if mazovian socio-economics were a spooky scary jack-o-lantern

[miafeystits]

not to keep rambling about the mechanics of disco elysium’s thought cabinet, but i was thinking today about how this post came about via me trying to figure out why it seemed i was gaining xp at a much slower rate in my current run of the game (as a moralist) vs earlier runs (both times as a communist), and i had a bit of a realization

while i think having internalized kingdom of conscience instead of mazovian socio-economics (and thus not gaining that sweet sweet communist xp) is at least part of the equation, i’d forgotten about a key difference between my earlier runs and my current one-- i’d always played as an art cop before, the second time around with conceptualization as my highest or second-highest stat (i can’t remember exactly) which, after internalizing actual art degree, translates into a not-insignificant amount of bonus xp:

which leads me to an interesting fact that i hadn’t really noticed before: while most thoughts do have some mechanical effect on harry, thoughts that grant extra xp to the player are pretty rare. in fact, there’s only four of them: jamais vu (derealization), mazovian socio-economics, actual art degree, and wompty-dompty dom centre

which. okay. i’ve already talked about mazovian socio-economics in a different essay, i won’t get into that again here. jamais vu? the extra xp makes sense-- if we’re reading the acquisition of xp as a way of illustrating harry’s character growth through game mechanics, it tracks for jamais vu, a thought about harry trying to better understand the world around him and his relationship to it, to give a small amount of xp for making an effort to explore your surroundings (and also mechanically give you the opportunity to learn more information!)

but like. actual art cop and wompty-dompty dom centre? why? why those in particular?

well, imo, the reason that both of these thoughts are able to offer so much xp is the same thing that ties them to each other thematically: they’re thoughts about art.

and even though both of the thoughts are textually quite critical of the art world and the culture surrounding it (the wompty-dompty dom centre describes the art crowd as the “unholy symbiosis of esthetics and tax optimization,” and the solution to actual art degree is literally just a bunch of ways to call something mediocre lmao) the mechanical benefits to both of these thoughts indicate another underlying argument: that not only is it still worth it to engage with art, but that engaging with art and trying to (as the description for conceptualization puts it) “see Art in the world” gives harry more tools and opportunities to improve as a person

because that’s what a skill point fundamentally is, right? it’s a new opportunity for harry to grow, either by leveling up a skill or by learning something new about the world or himself (via unlocking more space in the thought cabinet). internalizing these thoughts does what good art can do-- they make the world a little bigger, and make that world a little easier to survive

[alfa0509]

he doesnt know i have Mazovian socio-economics internalized

[disco-elysium-via-polls]

Alright, we need to get rid of a Thought. Let me run you through the options to explain my logic here.

The XP from Actual Art Degree makes it too useful to give up. Mazovian Socio-Economics is, obviously, also non-negotiable.

Fairweather T-500 gives +2 Hand/Eye Coordination against enemies in that armour - the armour that the mercenaries are wearing. If conflict becomes unavoidable, we'll want to keep that.

White Mourning raises our Motorics learning cap, and Jamais Vu does the same for our Intellect.

Jamrock Shuffle gives us better loot for opening containers. What the Thought *doesn't* tell us is that it gives bonuses on almost any check that involves opening doors, and we still have a few of those.

Hobocop gives us more tare and raises the learning cap for Shivers to 6. Some Kind of Superstar raises the learning cap for Visual Calculus, Suggestion, Electrochemistry and Composure, in exchange for -1 Logic.

Remote Viewers Division makes Psyche checks easier, at the cost of -1 Drama.

The remaining three thoughts give stat bonuses. Apricot Chewing Gum Scented One is +2 Perception. Col Do Ma Ma Daqua is +3 Perception and -1 Encylopedia. Inexplicable Feminist Agenda is +1 Empathy and -1 Electrochemistry.

Of all these options, there's one that's clearly the most useless: we're clearly not going to need the higher learning cap for any of the Superstar skills. The only one that's anywhere close to being maxed out is Visual Calculus.

So, that's the Thought I'm replacing with Wompty-Dompty-Dom Centre.

[ladyloveandjustice]

I finished Disco Elysium!  (some spoilers below)

For the record, I was a huge communist throughout, and apparently the attribute I had to most was superstar cop, since that’s the one Kim mentioned when he defended me. i did do drugs and drink, and I started with a Thinker base but leveled up to be pretty high on most things thanks to my drugs. I did not give Cuno drugs. I was able to warn Kim and he did not get shot, but I got shot in the leg. I found the cryptid. I made the church a night club. I think I completed majority of the side quests accessible to me.I unfortunately did not trigger the homosexual undergound thing, but I did look that part up.

My thoughts at the end were: Inexplicable Feminist Agenda, Aces Low, Apricot Chewing Gum Scented One, Cop of the Apocalypse, Coach Physical Instrument, Finger Pistols, Guillarme Le Million, Advanced Race Theory, Lonesome Long Way Home, Mazovian Socio-Economics, The Jamrock Shuffle and the Suicide of Kraz Mazov. I also temporarily had Actual Art Degree and The Litanty of Contact Mike but I got rid of them.

It was a wild game, and I enjoyed it a lot. I’ll probably replay it sometime and try a different build, it seems like there’s an endless amount of branching bits of dialogue and world building to enjoy.

[generation1point5]

An old friend of mine convinced me to start wearing watches again with commie drip. An antique commemorating the friendship between the Soviet Union and China. A perfect blending of both my cultural heritage and reflection of my political leanings. +1 to Mazovian Socio-Economics

[istherewifiinhell]

early joyce convo highlights

You - "How do you like it?" (Conclude)

Joyce Messier - "My sloop? I like it a lot." Her lips curl into a wry smile. "It's the *eel's hips*, baby."

Kim Kitsuragi - "I'm enjoying this part of the interview -- it has *so little to do with the murder we're investigating"

cant overstate how much both these voice lines are gonna live with me forever. also in this case my espirit du corps or whoever told me he actually liked the off kiliter interview. keep her off her rhythm so :p

You - "Still, I haven't seen anyone else sail a boat around here."

Joyce Messier - "I haven't seen anyone else drive a souped-up Coupris Kineema motor carriage either."

Kim Kitsuragi - "Actually," the lieutenant becomes defensive, "that motor carriage has been specially issued to serve as a patrol and *pursuit* vehicle."

smiling so big when hes being weird about his car.

Joyce Messier - ..."last year the company booked more than 20 billion reál in revenue."

Encyclopedia [Medium: Failure] - A... billion?

You - "What exactly is a *billion*?

i did not build int high...

skill check: [Volition - Medium 11] Say it: "Can I have some money?"

Volition: 3. High 83%. +2 Mazovian Socio-economics approve. +1 Heard of BILLIONS!

i never actually did this check lol

Joyce Messier - "It's quite easy: every hundred years or so our species gets together to decide what's next: who gets shot in the head and who gets the mineral rights-- it's a real *kerfuffle*."

You - "Would you say it was a bunch of apes dukin' it out?"

Joyce Messier - "Why of course -- we're talking duke-out central. Full-swing intraspecies war-fare."

You - "And these apes -- were they evil?"

see: the first thing i posted from this game

Joyce Messier - "Yes. The *Insulindian Deluge* they call it."

You - "I had a deluge too. In my head." (Point to your little head.)

similarly i am always thinking.. (point to your little head)

[miserywizard]

Inexplicable feminist agenda was the first thought I put a point into in this disco elysium replay followed closely and immediately by Mazovian Socio-economics which is of course exactly what I did the last time I played in 2021. I also immediately got slotted into sorry cop even though I was TRYING for cop of the apocalypse but WHATEVER

[shytrucker]

disco elysium style self portrait! i'm quizzing you on the fine point so of mazovian socio-economics

[thevagueambition]

The manner in which some political terms have been altered in Disco Elysium while others have been kept the same is really interesting.

“Moralism” in Disco Elysium means something different from how we use it in real life. “Humanism” might be the term we would use. Moralism in Disco Elysium is a type of Liberalism that sees itself as benevolent, but is really a vehicle for foreign interference, for economic imperialism. Followers of Dolorian moralism would likely be called “liberals” and “enlightened centrists” by real world leftists. The game itself also uses “Centrism” as a synonym for “Moralism” in the Thought Cabinet description.

One of my favourite jokes is how they named their UN stand-in “The Moralist International” or “Moralintern” as a play on the real world (Third) Communist International or Comintern, juxtaposing radical leftism with the forces of the status quo.

The decision to name this faction “moralists”, a word than invokes a performative concern with the appearance of moral righteousness rather than real justice, is in itself super telling in terms of the perspective of the devs and the narrative itself.

“Ultraliberal” is also used in a different way than I imagine most people would use that in real life, as well. It’s not really a term with any formal meaning in real life beyond “very liberal” which can really mean anything, depending on what the speaker means by “liberal”, a word which meaning differs a lot geographically and by context. We might reasonably call them Capitalists or (Right-)Libertarians.

I take the word “Ultra” to be a reference to the Ultra-Royalists of historical France, given the Revachol’s French-inspired nature, although this may be my own bias in being familiar with that historical period. “Ultras” as a term has been used in many places as a shortening of “Ultra-Somethingorother” just as it is here (usually very right wing projects).

Now Fascism and Communism stay the same as in real life. I wonder if this is not, in the case of the former, because the devs do not wish to obscure what Fascism is by referring to it with anything less than its real name, while in he case of the latter, because they themselves are Leftists.

Fascists in the game are also referred to as Traditionalists and Nationalists in the game, both corresponding directly to real life as well. “Loyalists” is used occasionally, but more so in an in-universe historical context. The modern Fascists in Revachol are not terribly concerned with Royalism. It’s worth noting, give my previous reference to historical French politics, that “Loyalists” were a historical French political faction related to the aformentioned Ulra-Royalist one.

EDIT: I somehow mixed up “Legitimist” and “Loyalist” in my mind, disregard the above ref to French historical conditions. “Loyalist” has meant a lot of different things historically, but often denotes loyalty to a colonial power or royal family.

For the Communist faction, the made up term “Mazovians” is used in the place of “Marxists”, referencing their Karl Marx stand-in Kras Mazov in place of the real world person. However, most of the time, the terms “Communism” and “Socialism” are used the same way the would be in real life. The game also uses “Communards” to refer to in-universe historical conditions, Communards being, iirc, the historical faction of Communists who supported the commune in Revachol. This again corresponds to a French historical (although considerably later iirc) historical political faction, the supporters of the Paris Commune.

All of this relates to, I think, how the game mocks various forms of Liberalism in a more frivolous manner, while it takes great care to be precise and condemning without being moralising in its portrayal of Fascism. Communism, on the other hand, is more so mocked from an internal perspective than an external one IMO. The Thought Cabinet text for Mazovian Socio-Economics doesn’t mock the actual ideas of Communism, like it does with the other available ideologies, it mocks its prospects for success and it mocks a particular attitude that exists in some Leftists:

Problem

People think Communism was some crazy idea that had its comeuppance 40 years ago. A fever that shook the world, never to return again. They were right. Until *he* woke up today – a spiritual corpse responsive only to the call of Commodore Red, prostitutes, and Kras Mazov. For him, Communism is still a *thing*. He will single-handedly raise the Commune of '02 from the oceanic trench where it has been resting, covered in ghosts and seaweed! He is the Big Communism Builder. Come, witness his attempt to rebuild Communism in the year '51!

Solution

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov *fucked him over* personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.

Interestingly, the Thought Cabinet text for Mazovian Socio-Economics is in third person, while all the other political alignment Thought Cabinet texts are in second person. I’m not sure exactly what that means, but it seems significant.

[palin-tropos]

“disco elysium fans ignore the themes for gay ships” I am adding the crunchiest themes with my gay ship thoughts I could write a dissertation on mazovian yaoi already. I could say so much about what the game does when it thematically ties “communism” and “love”. from the mazovian socio-economics thought: “[communism] hasn't really worked out yet, but neither has *love*—should we just stop building love, too?” 

I could say a lot about the extremely conflicted relationship that communism seems to have with raw human emotion, on the one hand it’s the foundation of everything. revolution is built on rousing up emotion, and the end goal is some kind of euphoria-utopia, phrases like “hope in work and joy in leisure” in the game remind you of that. the total fulfillment that is longed for and promised. the end of alienation is about emotion

but then there is a sort of terror that human emotion will cause reaction and undermine the cause and needs to be controlled, guided by a firm hand, manipulated, that it can’t just be let loose on the world. that it’s careless emotion that draws people away from the cause and towards the allure of other ideologies. intellectual rigor is needed to resist it all. critique, critique, critique

and love is one of the most terrifying and uncontrollable emotions, especially romantic love for another person. it’s such a deep form of interpersonal connection and yet it’s often destructive of a person’s true self in the name of an idealized image born of that intense emotion (and oh boy does disco elysium have things to say about that). it defies critique, it sings its own song, it blooms from within and overtakes all reason

lashing the themes of love and communism together, from the lurid tales of eight hour sex to the explicit and possible relationships between historical figures... war crimes committed not for the sake of power but in an achillean (in both ways) rampage, institutions and systems like décomptage being founded from a romantic partnership, characters whose passion for the cause is mingling with potential attraction and devotion to each other, the hanged man was killed by communism but love did him in—

it’s about emotion. in disco elysium, emotion is a kind of materialism

[miafeystits]

political thought and the thought cabinet

or, how disco elysium makes a political argument through game mechanics

so, let’s talk about the political alignment mechanic in disco elysium. specifically, I want to talk about the politically-aligned thought cabinet projects in the game, and how the mechanical consequences they induce serve as another way to comment on what adherence to each political ideology means for harry’s development as a person

(note: i’d like to dig into associated political vision quests in the future, but at the moment i’ve only fully completed one (communism) and I’m not through my moralist playthrough yet, so I’ll hold out on commenting for the moment)

because, and I don’t think this is really a controversial take, we can pretty easily read the acquisition of skill points as a metaphor that systematizes harry’s character development throughout the story, as evidenced through the way that skill points, whether invested into specific skills or into new thoughts, are mechanical decisions that shape harry as a character through the ways he is able to interact with the world (especially seeing as certain skill levels are often necessary to not only complete certain tasks but to obtain certain parts of potential narration)

political thoughts, then, and the effects that they have on harry mechanically both during and after their completion can and imo should be read as commentaries on what those political ideologies do on a personal and interpersonal level (taking into account, of course, that you as a player basically have no choice but to play a harry du bois who is extremely invested in his ideology of choice, because hdb is nothing if not a man of extremes. the only way to play a more “moderate” or “apolitical” hdb is to opt out of completing any political thought at all. even the ‘indifferent’ political dialogue choices ultimately lead you to developing the moralist thought, and if you ever decide to research said thought and go down the moralist questline that does mean playing a harry that is deeply invested in moralism as an ideology—you can play harry as a centrist, but you can never play him as a moderate)

(note: this is something I’ve seen people discuss to various degrees before, but the ones I’ve seen have tended to focus on fascist runs of the game and how much disco elysium makes being a fascist suck—which are worth checking out for the record, as I’ve never played a fascist run of the game myself. so while I’m probably not pointing out anything new in that regard, I really want to point out how all of the political thoughts in de have mechanical effects that provide political commentary through gameplay, and how they contribute to the game’s larger political points)

so, taking all this into account, it’s super interesting to note that even though disco elysium allows you to play harry as a communist, moralist, ultraliberal or fascist, of those mazovian socio-economics is the only thought that offers additional xp

meaning, if we’re reading the acquisition of xp and skill points as a ludic illustration of harry’s character development throughout the game, the benefits of internalizing mazovian socio-economics make an argument that communist ideology is, mechanically, the political ideology that gives harry the most substantial tools to develop as person. 

this is despite having its own possibly negative effects on harry, shown mechanically through those negative skill bonuses:

there’s a critique here in regards to how far communism can take harry personally– at the end of the day, it is also an ideology that gives him a pessimistic and somewhat skewed view of the current world (from the solution description: “All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov *fucked him over* personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world,”) which manifests in those negative stat bonuses to authority and visual calculus. 

but compare this with the other political thoughts in the game:

moralism, in contrast, has mechanical benefits (and on the surface may appear more uniformly positive than the communist thought), but that main benefit is making harry feel better about himself, which is different than allowing harry to improve himself 

looking at the mechanical boost healing +1 morale alongside the (mostly theoretical) boost to volition (giving you a potential for high morale in general) & the fact that volition is described in-game as a skill that “At high levels…makes you hyper-sane. When you’re about to get funky, it keeps you normal. It’s a bit of a party-pooper,” we can see reflected here what the game says about moralism textually: that moralism is an ideology about maintaining the status quo, maintaining stability (although, stability for whom?) at the expense of any actual change, personally or socially—and part of how it maintains that is through professing ideas that feel good, but are ultimately more fluff than substance (the conversation with the Sunday friend being a great example of this in practice)

now, the raised learning cap to logic is a mechanical detail i find slightly trickier to interpret if i’m being honest. my initial guess as to its purpose is that it serves to aid the player in the moralist quest later on, which necessitates that harry succeed on at least one major logic check to complete it. however, there’s also something to be said about how moralism frames itself as the most ‘logical’ and ‘objective’ of its ideological contemporaries, as a way of justifying its continued power and the human cost that it necessitates. moralism’s argument for its own existence, the future ‘kingdom of conscience’ is also notably one that appeals to harry’s own internal sense of logic, as seen in the passive check below (from the initial ‘kingdom of conscience’ thought):

then there’s ultraliberalism, which is pretty easy to figure out imo—people subscribe to this ideology because it makes them money. if earning money is what’s important to you, subscribing to this ideology sure will make that easier, at the expense of empathy towards others.

and honestly, you might benefit mechanically from this thought in some ways—namely through the ability to more easily buy status-changing clothes, medicines, and drugs—but it’s important to keep in mind that those stat boosts are always temporary. the clothes can be taken on and off, the drugs wear off eventually, and medicine will only ever heal you to max health, never increase it. the only permanent stat change is that negative boost to empathy, which is the price of doing business.

and then lastly, we have fascism. and being a fascist, mechanically? sucks ass. i’m not the first person to say this and i probably won’t be the last. it gives you a negative stat boost that lasts the whole nine hours it takes to think about it– nine hours!!! that is, by my count, the second longest time to internalize a thought in the whole game. the other ideologies also give you negative stat boosts while you research, but the longest of them (mazovian socio-economics) takes only around 3 hours. notably, there are very few thoughts of this research length that induce a negative research bonus at all—most of the thoughts that clock in around 7 or 8 hours of research time, with some exceptions, have no effect during research. also, the only thought with a longer research time than this one is wasteland of reality, clocking in at 20 hours, which is the thought that mechanically mimics the process of trying to get sober after years of alcohol addiction

there’s also probably something to be said here in general about the time it takes to internalize each political thought—moralism (1 hr 25 min), closely followed by ultraliberalism (1 hr 45 min), are easy to internalize presumably because they’re the reigning ideologies of the world you live in—you are surrounded by their logics and their arguments, and it’s easier to maintain the world than seek to change it.

communism is presumably more difficult to invest into—you can see evidence of its defeat all around you. it is a decidedly radical position to take in a post-commune of revachol world

I’m honestly still thinking about why exactly fascism takes so long to internalize. my current theory (and a big thanks to @obeetlebeetle​ for helping me figure this mystery out as best as we can) is related to a specific line in the description for the revacholian nationhood thought (emphasis mine): “They've fucked this place….You have only a vague idea what this means, but it's clear that a *good strong state* must be erected upon the ruins, if any of us are to have a future.” as we see in looking at other fascist characters in the game– rene, measurehead, gary– their idea of both what is wrong with the world and how to ‘fix’ it (as well as who is the in-group and out-group in their worldviews) are so deeply rooted within a specific historical, cultural, and theoretical context and tradition, which harry “just lost his whole memory” du bois doesn’t have access to. as we see in the description above, a fascist harry is written as coming from a place of defensiveness, of wanting to blame the world’s problems on an out-group so as to absolve himself of sin or personal responsibility, but he only has the vaguest idea of who he’s blaming, and why– meaning this research time may, in fact, be needed to research, or to at least recover those memories

who knows though– maybe, perhaps, the time difference is so great because fascism is less about understanding the world around you than it is about evading anything resembling truth? not about stability, or personal gain, or changing the future, but returning to a past that never really existed. to quote a friend on this, it’s an ideology based in false and subjectively constructed narratives (which you can see in the aforementioned main 3 fascist characters’ differing visions of the world), an approximation of which even harry is even able to cobble together. perhaps, more so than the other ideologies, fascism is really a lie you have to take the time to fool yourself into believing, because you need to make up a story to go along with it.

but anyway, let’s go back to what happens when you internalize revacholian nationhood. 

if you decide to go all in on fascism, spend a whole nine hours on it, what does that get you? just an increased proclivity towards alcoholism (more specifically: a mechanical boost that encourages the player to roleplay harry’s continuing alcoholism) and a -1 to your morale anytime you say something fascist

being a fascist, and attempting to enact fascism out in the world, sucks. the game does not want you to be a fascist. it makes you worse, and continuing to try to spread fascism only hurts harry—the destruction inherent to fascism manifests as self destruction as well. and the boost that it does give—making alcohol more effective—is a temporary one, and requires you to continue keep drinking to maintain its effects

(note: I know that it’s possible to level up a skill while it’s increased via drugs or alcohol and it will stay that way, but i’d argue that such raises ultimately come down to increasing the skill cap, which is mechanically distinct from giving the player more xp– and notably, to maintain that boost when not using drugs or alcohol, players still need to use previously earned skill points, which this thought does nothing to aid you in acquiring)

so, in conclusion I guess: I think the reason that disco elysium’s exploration of different political ideologies works so well for me is that it’s not just fluff. harry’s politics, whichever direction he leans, will change him as a person, and those ideologies are not equal or neutral: some of them will give you more tools to survive this world and to better yourself than others. and when they also affect gameplay it makes it clear that the ramifications of those politics are inescapable on a personal level as well as a wider social level, and makes those effects inescapable to the player as well.