#Same with every aspect of wof

[lillyosaurus]

I just think she’s a little neat a little silly hmm

[capn-rikshu]

<Thoughts on previous reblog

No disrespect to OP but the tonal shift/inconsistency might've shaken them to lead to that critique. I see some of what they were getting at but I never had a feeling that the show was saying that 'now that Robbie and Mo have powers, they must be responsible for every adult around them'. That's a bit extreme to me. And ESPECIALLY their thoughts on the violence of the show.

(It's a long read)

Jawbreaker has been remarked on before on not really understanding social cues at times which leads to him roughhousing with Grimlock and causing him to have an outburst. It's neither of their fault in that situation, if anyone I would blame Elita for not pulling Jawbreaker aside and explaining him Grimlock's situation. She did practically benched Jawbreaker aside for he 'could cause more trouble' before running off to stop Grimlock with Hashtag. When JB said 'it's all my fault', she said 'we'll discuss this later'. I don't blame her, it was a time tight situation, but JB may take those words too much to heart; he really does blame himself for Grimlock's rampage. Maybe there could've been a scene where Elita ACTUALLY discussed what happened with Jawbreaker, maybe apologize and tell him that it wasn't his fault but the episode ends abruptly. Maybe there WAS a scene like that somewhere in the drafts but we all know that TFE has a lot of cut content. I would criticize that aspect.

BUT nowhere else did I ever feel that the kids have a responsibility for the adults around them or how they effect them. Earthspark is sort of a 'chosen one' narrative, Quintus Prime CHOSE Mo and Robby to be the legacy of hope of the Terrans. He gave them powers to fight alongside their Terran siblings.

It's more of a kid's power fantasy than anything saying 'kids should have responsibility for the adults around them', which leads me into critiquing OP's critique of the darkness and mature themes of the show.

Again, no disrespect but I don't think OP understands how kids that age (8-15 as OP has stated to be the likely demographic) actually act like and what their likes and dislikes gravitate to. They don't understand that kids those age are going to be curious and contemplating morbid and mature topics. As they get older they'd want to been seen less as kids and more like mature adults (even though they aren't). So they will naturally be more interested in more darker/mature topics; specifically violence, mental health issues, tame gore, but nothing extremely disturbing or traumatising. The problem is that with the internet they may actually come across actually exploitive, psyche damaging stuff. With TV networks there are at least guidelines and mandates that are harder to slip through than, say, something like Youtube. (All those creepy elsagate stuff). They need a safe environment to explore those thoughts.

I was a Warrior Cats kid and anyone in that fandom knew that those books could be violent AF, same can be said about Wings of Fire (unlike Warriors I don't think it ever had a scene where a cat/dragon had their stomach cut open, WoF did have a dragon have her face burnt off with acid). Majority of those fandoms are comprised of kids less than 16 years of age, Warriors had so many fanart by CHILDREN illustrating the cats sometimes brutal deaths.

My point being, if you think most kids in between those ages are going to be traumatised by what they see on a RESTRICTIVE cable network, where they can censor many things (a lot harmless things e.g same sex couples) there is a good chance you may not fully understand children. [I'm not saying that it is impossible that they won't get traumatised by something but I'm saying that it would be extremely unlikely especially nowadays]

Unlike books, where you can only imagine how bad things are, a more visual medium like cartoons have less to the imagination. Let's take a look at the violence in Earthspark shall we?

On level of violence I'd say... it is on level of TF Prime AT TIMES. TFP was pretty consistent with its violence, it shown its characters BLEEDING, from the mouth, from wounds on the Cybertronian character. Meanwhile, I'd say the most bleeding we got from Earthspark characters was from Megatron's arm, from some covered shoulder panel. You could count Brawl dripping blood on the floor but it happens offscreen, I recall. I don't think Earthspark ever shows a Transformer bleed from any wound, or even really show any battle damage except from Bumblebee's arms and Twitch and Thrash in the finale.

The finale is the only thing I'd say could be seen as 'EXTREMELY violent', the stakes were fucking off the charts in those episodes. I see the tone clash critique from a lot people coming from there, some people also say it was rushed. By extremely violent I mean: human death (rip edgy elsa gets evaporated), Twitch getting her head repeatedly bashed against the floor by Mandroid, Nightshade getting stabbed (it is covered by a convenient camera angle and it is revealed to be an illusion), those are the extremes I remember from that episode. But those are MOSTLY ONLY EXCLUSIVE TO THE TRANSFORMERS CHARACTERS. Most violence happens to them. Human characters are harmed but it is not as horrific as how OP describes it '-children cry, they scream, they get bruised, their parents wail when they see them in danger', that makes this show sound so much more mature than it actually is, it's manipulative. There have never been any cuts or bruises ever shown on any of the human models, there are also no scenes in which I recall being extremely distressing.

I really think that the high stakes, barely seen before violence, shift in tone caused OP to go on that tirade. The clash of the finale compared to the season before gave them and many people a whiplash of what they used to perceive the show to be. People were not used to this kind of high stakes and violence in the show before the finale. I'll critique it for that - inconsistency.

One more nit-pick, this line: "1. Steven Universe really ruined a generation of children’s media by making showrunners think they had to tackle issues like PTSD and trauma."

It's completely false. I don't think OP has the knowledge of the trends in cartoons today and from before. So little network cartoons are like Steven Universe, flip on Cartoon Network, look what's playing on the telly: 'The Amazing World of Gumball', 'Total DramaRama', 'We Baby Bears'. Even on Nickelodeon: 'The Loud House', 'Spongebob', 'Monster High'. (Nickelodeon don't air cartoons often except Spongebob or The Loud House, really💀). Remember Powerpuff Girls actually having blood in its intro? Remember how the reboot sanitised everything? How they removed even the breasts on some of the female characters designs (God forbid cartoony exaggeration of female anatomy/s).

It is entirely unfair to blame Steven Universe for a supposed trend of cartoons tackling mature and dark subjects. People must remember the trend of the action cartoon back in 2000s to early 2010s: 'Teen Titans', 'Max Steel', 'Scooby Doo Mystery Inc.(not necessarily action but it was mature at times)', 'Slugterra', even 'Transformers: Prime'. Those cartoons could sometimes get "dark". But people love to use Steven Universe as the 'blame for all' because its comedic, dark tone, and tackled mature themes. Neither Earthspark nor Steven Universe, as I recall, go in depth about trauma and mental health issues. Earthspark is pretty surface level in that regard, there is no backbone. I hope for proper exploration of themes in season 2.

I think I'll end it here for now.

[No hate, if OP reads this, once more, no disrespect. I just disagree with your take.]

[smellslikesouls]

i finally got around to finishing wings of fire book 15, and have found more things for the fandom to complain about i haven’t seen mentioned !! <3

first off freedom and snowfall go through the exact same character arc and learn the exact same lesson the exact same way, directly one after the other? and maybe it’s supposed to be a parallel on purpose, but it just came off as really repetitive and predictable to me. especially when not much else happens in the flames of hope. it also doesn’t help freedom is a much more annoying character than snowfall (imo) with less individual or earned pay off, and luna/dusky/pinapple were much more boring support characters than lynx, or even opal tbh

i will say though i loved the horror aspects of this book, i hope arc 4 keeps going more in that direction. the scene where luna finds vole was insane and so unexpected to me. i didn’t even recognize that that was vole, those like 2 paragraphs were extremely visceral and well written, but nothing else really happened with it after that other than “oh ew lol that guy needs 3 baths”

which reminds me, another thing that hurt flames of hope was how awful the tone was. wings of fire has always been a series that tries to balance silly/serious, (and struggles quite a bit sometimes imo) but it was especially awful during every freedom/cottonmouth interaction. cottonmouth was played like he was a complete pathetic joke by both freedom and coyote, his brother in the flashbacks. even (as he pointed out) while he was WINNING. everytime freedom called someone a “bozo” it felt like fun quirky wof banter, rather than a dragon coping with their eternal suffering/inevitable death.

it was just all in all really strange. i’m glad tui seems to be taking her time with arc 4, flames of hope both really reminded me how much potential the arc had, and how hard it fell flat. i watched a video about wings of fire’s world building in the first 2 arcs (by The Hayze, if you want to watch it, it was really good!) and was reminded how insanely fast wof books are released. i hope tui takes like 5+ years at least to write arc 4 lol. she’s clearly improving as a writer, but doesn’t have nearly enough room to breathe. i feel like the wings of fire world had so much more to offer and arc 3 made everything feel so much smaller, strangely enough?? i want like an entire arc of books like darkstalker legends, the dangerous gift, and winter turning, like smaller stories with more serious or at least consistent tones is truely where the series excels

[sandshadow9]

Don’t apologize for the long post! It was interesting seeing your perspective on both Moonbli and Qinter, but to me I feel like Moonbli was cliche and just… a little bit rushed. Throughout the second arc they had moments of attraction but it was the romantic developing that was lacking. Qinter HAD THOSE ASPECTS THAT WOULDVE MADE THEM SUCH A COMPELLING AND REALISTIC COUPLE, there were flaws in both of them, yet I feel like they balance each other out in a way Moonbli couldn’t. I totally see them helping each other grow into better dragons.

Just my thoughts

Yes you’re so right. I’m doing my best here to be diplomatic about Moonbli but it is certainly not pushing any boundaries.

I really want to try and put into words what I like about Qinter and why I think it would work. Recently though, I have not been going as hard on the Qinter train as I used to. Mostly I feel Qibli needs to be knocked down a few pegs lol. I’ve alluded to this in other posts but Qibli is like the “morally grey but not really” character that Tui put so much effort into making three dimensional but still missed the point of what that means and went ahead and labelled him as the “good guy” both in the conflict of the book and the love triangle. I suppose I just don’t like how Tui put them on unequal footing in terms of “goodness”, like sometimes I get the feeling Qibli visiting Winter is kind of framed like “wow look at Qibli being one of the few dragons to visit the mean Winter, isn’t he such a nice guy!” which annoys me but maybe I’m just interpreting it weirdly. Qibli needs to be humbled.

HOWEVER

Qinter still very good and their personalities and goals parallel each other so well.

At their cores, Qibli and Winter have the same soft hearted kindness to them, and they both try to hide and protect this vulnerability fiercely using different methods. Obviously a lot of the main characters of the WOF books are generally kind at heart, but considering the environment the Qibli and Winter grew up in (both abusive with siblings/family members that did not struggle to meet the toxic expectations) it really shows that they are the kind of dragons that have remained soft hearted, even if they didn’t want to, despite everything, and the way they hide this is different between them.

Winter has been taught how to hide his “weakness”, he has been given basically the ten commandments of how to be a perfect IceWing and clings to those teachings like a religion. Despite all this he can’t help but love and trust others. He’s like a kicked puppy in that way, no matter how many times those he loves tare him down he would still sacrifice everything for them. We see him do this for his brother and sister, and his tribe in the battle with the NightWings. There is no mistake too great that he won’t forgive someone. It will probably be the death of him one day but it’s just who he is.

As for Qibli, he had to learn for himself how to hide his soft heart through manipulation and observation and mistrustfulness. Unlike Winter, Qibli was able to get away from his abusive home and find a community that made him better and more open, but he is still plagued by his insecurities. 

While Winter still has a long way to go, he has an earnestness that I think would lower Qibli’s defenses. Winter wears his heart on his sleeve, despite having every reason not to (to be fair I don’t think he realizes he does), and in a lot of ways so does Qibli. I don’t think Qibli ever really was able to lock his heart away, only cover up the fact that it’s so exposed. 

I literally have no nice finishing sentence here and this is a mess but yeah I love those boys 

[radioves]

techno derg

bottom text

unfiltered images + design notes / headcanons + id under cut

spoilers for wof yadda yadda you know the drill

- Techno, AKA Sanguine - his name [according to google] means, “from Old French sanguin (fem. sanguine) and directly from Latin sanguineus "of blood," also "bloody, bloodthirsty," from sanguis (genitive sanguinis) "blood" (see sanguinary). The meaning "cheerful, hopeful, vivacious, confident”. His name is actually just inspired by a quote from Maybe an elder scrolls game, something along the lines of, “when the night runs sanguine” i cannot remember i do not play elder scrolls- i think you can guess why i chose this name for him, the second part was by coincidence but i still think it fits because of his confident, almost carefree approach to conflict

- Pink. Hes half skywing half icewing, and he is very popular to outsiders because of his uniquely colored scales- some mistake him for icewing royalty because of his resemblance to a certain icewing princess [yes ery is canon in here. my ocs are part of this, your ocs are part of this, its my Au and i get to chose the Characters]. Skywings can be every color of the sunsets- purple, red, pinks, oranges, and even yellow, so yes, he gets little yellowy accents on his scales because it looks like gold

- Both tribes are known for their fashion and jewelry exports, and hes no exception. He actively visits both kingdoms [mostly favors Skywings because they specialize in gold over the silver of Icewings] to see whats new in stock. He has also gained... other things. from the Skywings, most notably their craft of fireworks. i think you can guess what hes used it for

- Very Spiky. because its cool. He looks like a girdled lizard and is very sharp. Covered in ice spikes because again, cool. Even his antlers are spiky because its sick as hell. I couldnt recommend any less trying to pet him the wrong way you will end up losing some aspect of your body one way or another

- Has the same vibes as Blaze, but opposite energy, if that makes sense. He would much rather stay at home than purposefully fight others if it means keeping his scales pristine, but if someone brings the battle to him he can and will kick their ass. Well, at least thats how it is now, back then he totally would find conflict any place he could- to the point where others would either actively avoid him, or seek him out to help them in battles

- kinda unrelated but Technodragon and Sanguine are two different dragons. There are also versions of the rest of the Dreaming Dragons... dragons, who are also just normal ass dragons outside of the restrictions of me manhandling Wof canon to try and make something that works

[ID : 2 drawings of Technoblade as a dragon, inspired by Wings of Fire. He is an Icewing and Skywing hybrid, with pink and white mottled scales and pale yellow spots and accents. He has sharp plates all over his body that resembles a girdled lizards, and spikes on his shoulders, giving him a very sharp appearance. He has long, sharp white spines on his neck, back, and tail, with curly horns that have spikes that resemble antlers. There are small tufts of fur on his chin, ears, and arms. He has wide, pig-like ears, a muzzle that resembles a snout, and short tusks that jut from the corners of his mouth, and he has dark eyes with gold pupils. He is laying on his side with his back to the viewer, propped up on his elbows as he looks back at the viewer. His eyes are narrowed with a tired, almost annoyed expression.

The second image is the similar to the first, flipped. He has a dark red cape with a fluffy lining draped around his shoulders, covering his back down to the base of his tail. He has several gold chain necklaces, one of them with 3 gold hoops dangling off of it. He has a gold band around one of his spines, along with bands around his tusks, and a band around his horns. He has several gold earrings, a chain attached to two of them, with an emerald attached to a length of chain at the end. He is wearing a gold crown with three points and a spike facing down in the middle, a pattern of symmetrical sapphires and diamonds running along the outside with a large ruby in the center, and there is a chain attached to the tip of the center spike that is draped around his horns, the other end being attached to the band around his horns. End ID]

[leafy-wings]

i actually really agree on a lot of people being hyprocritical when it comes to moral wof judgements! i think due to the nature of wof, people are inherently going to be influenced by their emotions when it comes to discussing it. personally, i'm sort of the opposite of you - i understand darkstalker more than arctic. ofc not all (mostly because he's very as you said comically evil which gives a bit of disconnect) but as someone with a lot of npd traits, i connect a lot to aspects of how he's-

-written, especially struggling with morals and the intensive desire to have prestige/a position of power/respect/etc and the desire to be loved by everyone. i feel i'm also more sympathetic because of how young darkstalker is- arctic is a fully grown adult, while darkstalker is the equivalent of a 15 - 17 year old; he's incredibly toxic, don't get me wrong, and a lot of the situations he's in are more extreme due to the nature of wings of fire being a magical fantasy series-

-but i also feel as though the general theme of struggling with toxic behaviors due to abuse/mental illness is a very relatable thing for a lot of people. i still feel as though darkstalker wasn't a good person, but i think he could have had a better chance Of being if he was in different circumstances. i have a lot of issues with tui's writing of him in general tbh though, i feel as though his story as a whole could have been handled a Lot better

(oh btw same anon! this isn't meant to be like! coming for you/mean or anything, i'm genuinely interested in this topic- i'm not great with tone due to neurodivergency and wanted to clarify since i know i can come off as trying to start arguments/rude when i try to discuss things; also sorry for the massive rant, i'm Very passionate about wof whoops- let me know if you need to drop the conversation! i don't want to stress you out)

dont feel sorry! i do like talking about this and the neurodivergent angle towards characters. its not like i CANT relate to darkstalker; ive been someone who was a toxic child before due to being in an abusive household (hell, im still in the midst of that). i think struggling hard with mental illness that makes me feel obligated to be loved and cherished by those around me due to my talents is actually something i struggle with right now, and part of the reason i actually DONT feel bad for him. because i know its a real world problem i have, im terrified of hurting other people, and i HATE seeing unhealthy toxic behaviors. it makes me feel like im losing my mind, like this is MY problem that IM trying to fix, and YOURE not trying to fix yourself? it feels like a personal insult to me, that a character that has my problems is praised where i am only excluded and isolated. i think its also just personal repression and self consciousness and self hate, like i said before about being abused but identifying with the abuser and hating the abused when we’re more similar; i really, really hate myself for being toxic, and i, in return, hate characters who i relate with. maybe its BAD that i feel like that, that a character who i see myself within is inexcusable because thats how i (knowingly unhealthily) regards myself, but i just prefer to think.. we should all try and be better people, and thats looking at things objectively and coming pros and cons and the weight of peoples crimes and their feelings. i wish it was so easy as mentally ill characters in media being sequestered from their bad situation, and then theyd just get over it. i wish that was me, and i wish that was every character who i see as myself.

i relate to peril in regards to “mental illness but its dragons”. i have very bad bpd that makes me dependent on others but inclined to hurting them by begging for attention, im just prone to violence and rash decisions. i relate to her in that i feel like every relationship i enter will end harshly; it is how i am inclined, how i was born, and how i was raised, to resort to raising my voice and turning my back on others instead of peaceful endings. i dont know why i see peril as different from darkstalker, but id like to figure it out.

i think the difference is that darkstalker doesnt really struggle, to me. from a young child he believed in himself so thoroughly, and he enters every moral argument believing himself to be right. this is understandable, this is realistic; until it happens for the 5th, 10th, 20th time. perhaps hes supposed to show off the sunk cost fallacy or denial, but to me he just shows up as someone who earnestly does not want to improve as a person. it is unfair to those who have been inclined to unhealthy behaviors but tried to improve, because darkstalker does not try, he just gets worse and worse.

[sandshadow9]

Can you elaborate on what aspects of the WoF worldbuilding you find to be underbaked? I'm interested in your point of view(and it's been a while since I've reread them so my memory isn't the freshest lol)

Thanks for ask @aspirationatwork! To prevent this from getting too long I’ll use bullet points and try to briefly describe my thoughts on the topic. OK here we go

- The animus magic system: Its origins are a mystery, it’s limitations (if any) are vague and undefined, and its inheritance is random. Someone else (maybe on the subreddit?) pointed out that Tui had to get rid of animus magic since she had basically written herself into a corner and made it too overpowered which I think is a valid point but I’m not happy about it.

- NightWing powers: Now I enjoy mind reading/prophecy powers a lot, but these powers stick out like a sore thumb compared to the abilities of the other tribes and we never really find out how the NightWings got them.

- The aging system: Need I say more?

- The naming system: Also very creative for Tui to give the humans the same naming system.

-Size of fruits and non-dragon animals: Just overall proportions of dragons vs the environment that seems to change every so often as fits the scene.  

- MudWing breeding night: Of all the scraps of MudWing lore Tui could have given us, this is what she came up with. 

- The Scorching: the biggest event in dragon history was left vague for a very long time, and then once an explanation was offered it was lame and only provided half the answers. It might have explained why the dragons conquered the continent but not really why they then differentiated into different Tribes.

- Inconsistent characterization and character arcs: While it maybe doesn’t fall into the “world building” category, character arcs are definitely an important part of story crafting, and I don’t think I need to provide specific examples. Every WOF fan has their own.

-Overall dragon culture and society: This is probably a personal bias, but the way the different dragon tribes live and work and rule are kind of brushed over in a lot of ways. I’m not expecting Lord of the Rings level detailed world-building here, but there are certain things that just don’t hold up when you think too deeply on them. Stuff like the IceWing Circles or how currency works (is it a bartering system? Do they use coins and gold?) or how the postal system works. 

Others can feel free to add other stuff or disagree, these are just what come to mind for me. But I do want to explain that I don’t say this to be hateful of the WOF books as that would be immensely hypocritical of me, a person who actively creates fan content for the series. Some part of me loves this series obviously, or else I wouldn’t have the passion to write for it, but it's the same love for it that makes all these things stick out to me. 

I also want to take this chance to explain a comment I made in my previous post: that it is very telling that Tui was given the suggestion to write a book about dragons rather than her coming up with the idea from scratch. Anyone who has created their own original story or even an AU has probably felt the universal experience of feeling overwhelmed with the details of how the world works and the characters they are writing about. This comes from a place of love and passion for what’s being created - and I just don’t think Tui has that love for WOF. 

I am sure she had a fun time writing it, or I hope she did, but I just don’t feel the love in the story. The characters are wishy washy since she doesn’t really love them. The world building is shaky because she probably hasn’t spent years daydreaming about it and turning it over in her head.

Anyway, this post is getting long enough. I’d like to know how others feel about this, but these are just my thoughts :3