#Seer Class

[starlit1daydream]

Mages & Seers: Experience and Comprehension

Those who know, everybody. I love Seers - so this should be one hell of an analysis.

The Mage:Seer class dichotomy embodies experience, comprehension and knowledge of their Aspect. Their Quest and their role in the session revolves wholly around their personal comprehension of their Aspect; and the ways in which that may shift or change their (or others!) viewpoint.

I can't definitively say they're one of the Classes that say something about their session, beyond perhaps the concept that a Mage or a Seer will obviously have a well of knowledge on their Aspect present.

Canonical Mage players are Sollux Captor (Mage of Doom) and Meulin Leijon (Mage of Heart).

Canonical Seer players are Rose Lalonde (Seer of Light), Terezi Pyrope (Seer of Mind) and Kankri Vantas (Seer of Blood).

Point A. The narrative function of the Mage.

Mages know about their Aspect. They are that simple to understand. A lot of people will argue that the Mage is one of the more nebulous classes in Homestuck; and I'd argue this is because there really isn't much in the way of complexity with them. They've got a fairly straightforward relationship with their Aspect; having experienced it wholly throughout their life prior to the session.

It's almost, to me, as if their Aspect haunts them in a sense. We see this with Sollux's recurring visions of Doom and misfortune; considering that the Mages & Seers are meant to fill a sort of 'prophet' archetype.

Sollux is consistently depicted as knowledgeable on coding (a manifestation of Doom in the form of rigid order and regulation) and holding a vast well of knowledge and foresight on the topic of suffering. It's important to hold the distinction that Doom does not deal directly with absolute death (Time does), and so Sollux's visions are of the imminently doomed and the suffering, not the already deceased.

Meulin is a little more difficult to pin down, but inference from stray lines of dialogue and particularly her complex moirallegiance with Horuss give me some substance to work with. Toxic positivity? Alluded 'darkness' in her without elaboration? Her disability being inflicted directly as a result of her partner & lover? I think what we're looking at here is depression.

If Meulin has experience with Heart in all facets - this implies to me that she has a share of experience with emotion in all facets. Good and bad. And what better manifestation of poor emotional control than that? I think it's a very conclusive theory.

It becomes clear to me that Mages aren't absolute in their assertions, and so therein comes my theory that their quest involves an expansion of perspective and reconsideration of their knowledge. It is to accept that they may not understand their Aspect as thoroughly as once thought and subsequently grow to accomodate a wider worldview. They're stagnant, having experienced so much that they feel they have no further room to learn.

Point B. The practical function of the Mage.

This is a more difficult one to understand since neither Mage in the comic God Tiers and they aren't seen fighting much over the course of the story. Even when Sollux takes to action, he applies his psiionics rather than utilising Doom in any way.

My theory is that the application of a Mage is to inform. Mages & Seers may very well hold the same occupation broadly speaking, to accomodate for the gaps in co-players' knowledge and bring about newfound understanding. Being active players, the Mages presumably advance this through their own means. This is some of the most active conjecture I'll be writing, since we do not ever see a God-Tiered Mage in canon.

Point C. The narrative function of the Seer!

In case it wasn't obvious, I am very excited to get this segment done; after all, who better to talk on the topic of Seers than... a Seer?

Seers have a little more depth to their function involving their relationship with both their Aspect and its diemetric opposite. Seers begin their sessions holding a poor or deficient comprehension of their Aspect; to the point where they seek their opposite. The notion of their base Aspect comes into play fairly soon - though they may superficially seek their opposite, it is their Aspect they seek in actuality.

They do hold a certain level of foresight, but rather than the Mage's inherent comprehension, Seers tend to rely upon external sources and stimuli to further their understanding; Rose with the Horrorterrors, Terezi with Scratch & Aranea, and we can only guess with Kankri.

They are capable of having visions, though - as Rose & The Signless can both attest to!

Rose seeks Void. She seeks to breach the unknowable, catalogues the Zoologically Dubious and finds comfort in oblivion and the pursuit of ignorance. She resolves to leave the game to Void rather than seek its Light; at first.

Terezi seeks Heart. Her final speech to Vriska talks of her emotional insecurity and pursuit of self-assurance. She wishes most prominently for security in herself and her identity; and yet this manifests in a flawed pursuit of binary, deficient Mind.

Kankri seeks Breath. Having been coddled and patronised all his life, freedom is his ultimate aim. His rebellious spirit and compulsive boot-licking seem to be a direct manifestation of his desire to think for himself and be free in his direction. Kankri's a particularly interesting one given that he fucked up his quest, canonically.

...The Signless didn't, however. The Signless pursued unity through freedom his whole life.

Rose resolves to pursue knowledge through the unknown.

Terezi seeks logic through emotion.

All of them grow, the further they pursue their Session's aims, to understand their base Aspect. It's a reversal of the Mage's quest; the stagnant Mage must embrace diversity wheras the directionless Seer embraces their certain path.

Point D. The practical function of the Seer.

Apologies, this is going to be mostly just about Rose.

Rose's role in her session post-ascension is to understand and inform her session-mates about the most fortuitous path. Her visions allow her to comprehend Light and sift through the endless possibilities and synthesis of her Aspect to find the most precise outcome. They grow to be an indispensible well of knowledge; always learning and finding out their Aspect's truth.

Terezi does the same, albeit without ascending; her greatest moment of heroism is the prelude to the Retcon, which she directly causes. Terezi applies all of her knowledge of consequence, cause & effect to undo the resultant consequences of the actions taken by her sessionmates. She uses her comprehension of Mind to her utmost ability; which is why I find it gut-wrenching that she still believes she was never enough.

Kankri... does jack shit other than be a whiny little bootlicker, but The Signless certainly applies his Aspect for the greater good. The fire of his rebellion and his pursuit of unity and free communication on Alternia ignite the spark of revolution for generations to come; his quest for Blood bringing utmost comprehension and sight of unity.

Overall, this is one Class where the narrative:practical lines tend to blur a little, owing to the general non-combatant status of the Classes in general. Rose shows they're capable of using their Aspect in combat just as all players are; but it seems clear to me that they function the best as advisors.

Next week, I'll be elucidating on the Witches & Heirs; which will be an interesting one since it'll require me to actually understand what a Witch does. That should be fun.

Take care, everybody. I know nothing.

[fandom-err0r]

i love you seer outfit. áo dài coded.

[rogue-of-heart-classpecting]

Would a seer of void have the abilty to find metaphorical points of Light in the darkness or would they be limited to only voidy, aka Completely Fucking Irrelevant, pieces of information? If they did find relevant information, wouldn't they just be a weird kind of seer of light?

This is an interesting question. We do have a seer of light who learned about the horrorterrors and learned how to go grimdark and everything, so I don’t see why a seer of void wouldn’t see light as well. The seer is someone who’s supposed to learn about something they’re not totally familiar with, and they struggle with choices between their aspect and the opposite one. Let’s try using an example to find out what would happen.

Let’s say the seer of void is looking through the horrorterror manual. In that book they find a key piece of information that explains how skaia shows visions of the future or something. And let’s say there’s a piece on how to divine prophecy from the clouds. That would be a moment of finding light in a dark source. That would be reasonable to me.

As a rule of thumb, I like to say that if you can imagine it, you can find a way to do it. If you want your character to be able to do something, get creative with the rules. Be like a lawyer. Find loopholes in the guidelines that let you get from A to B. You can do whatever you want with your powers to an extent. (Usually if you can’t do something with your powers you probably don’t want to anyway because they’re so personalized.)

Happy classpecting!

[ogdegenerate]

HOMESTUCK CLASSES EXPLAINED… badly

WITCHES: the aspect’s personal bitch until they decide it’s their turn to top

HIERS: the aspect’s poorly disguised self insert with unnecessary amounts to plot armor

MAGES: gets traumatized by their hyper-fixation for plot reasons

SEERS: HOLY SHIT ITS TIRESIAS FROM THE ODYSSEY!!!!

PRINCES: aspect-phobic crusaders with anger issues who makes hating this broad concept their entire personality

BARDS: green aura and flies taken to its most lethal state.

MAIDS: don’t you hate it when you try to put on the fitted sheet on the bed but the corners keep getting loose?

SYLPHS: your fairy god mother who has no sense of personal space and consent

THIEVES: [This description has 8een stolen 8y the thief of light ::::)]

ROUGES: the communist party your government warned you about

KNIGHTS: when you mask so hard it becomes your superpower

PAGES: IM A GOOFY GOOBER ROCK 🎸🎸🎸

[prince-of-time-pt]

Can I get a show of hands who actually is a Seer irl? I have maybe seen one in the wild. For science also drop your aspect.

[hornetsstuck]

jay being a seer of void makes so much more sense to me now that i've contextualised the seer as "one who seeks [own aspect] through [opposite aspect]". jay's ultimate goal is to understand the unknown & unmask alex's secrets, but he goes about it in such a light-coded way (documenting everything, getting through by blind fortune alone) that he really does seem like a light player at first glance.

the jay|alex parallels drive me crazy sometimes. also saying a lot that jay has the same aspect that i've tied directly to the operator.

[starkeaton]

DDLC classpecting post

Monika: Seer of Light (knows info/relevance/importance for others)

I'm sure on Monika, she's the kind, passive, friendly advice giver, and her relevance/info/importance fixation is obvious. She definitely inverts to Witch of Void a little bit, but only because she's in a dire situation. When you sit down and talk to her, she's very focused on helping others with her knowledge

Sayori: Rogue of Life (takes growth/joy/health for others)

Sayori... I mean, all you have to do is read the bottle poem, and you will get it, i think. She chills in the background and gives her friends joy when they need it. However, as is common for Rogues, she also struggles with feeling like she's not needed. And like all Rogues, she is a treasure

Natsuki: Thief of Heart (takes emotion/identity/passion for self)

Natsuki being herself seems like some sort of radical action for her. She's definitely a rule-breaker type, and it's not immediately obvious just how beaten down by the world she really is. Thief is the class of "I need to get my needs met before anything else," and Natsuki seems willing to cross boundaries to get her needs met in some ways, with her hidden passions and such. She cares a lot about not judging people for their desires and interests, which i think is Heartful.

Yuri: Witch of Doom (changes cost/restriction/pain for self)

Yuri is so fixated on pain, which rings Doombound to me. Witches are troublemakers, and Yuri does enjoy doing things a bit differently with her poetry, showing others the beauty in darker things. She also changes herself for her own benefit, wearing something of a mask, which is a Witch thing, and um... well, her personality gets very exaggerated, but the idea of having someone to show her true self underneath that mask to is very romantic to her.

[en8y]

[IMAGE ID: two rectangular flags with six horizontal flags each. each flag has these top two colors: dark dull yellow-green, and dull yellow-green. the first flag has these bottom four colors: light yellow, dull orange, warm purple, and medium grey. the second flag has these bottom four colors: pastel yellow, yellow-green, medium green, and dark blue. END ID.]

seertenby: a gender related to being a seer (in a homestuck way), and a tenby/trans enby/trans nonbinary.

seertneu: a gender related to being a seer (in a homestuck way), and tneu/transneutral.

@radiomogai @liom-archive @obscurian

[preshtagonist]

I haven’t drawn wren in forever but rest assured his bitchy ass is on my mind always. He looks chubby and short here when his build is meant to be the exact opposite lmao. Also his hair is wrong rraahhhh

Bonus! Foxtier edit

[alicesoinions]

Seers and Mages

I think the Homestuck fandom has latched too hard on the idea of powers when trying to determine if Classes are active or passive.

We think of Active Classes as having big, grandiose, self-centered powers, and we don't see Rose or Terezi doing much of that, so we figure Seer is a passive class.

I think it might make more sense to look at what players do, powers or no powers.

Rose and Terezi are always fucking around. Rose was the driving force behind the Beta Kids playing Sburb, she wrecked toilets, she destroyed Sburb's gates. Terezi got a player from another session killed just by screwing around. Both of them are very active; always zipping around and doing things. (and while we don't see much of Kankri, the Signless was one of the more active Ancestors).

And you look at Mages, and... they never act on their own. Sollux and Meulin (and the Disciple) are always acting for someone else - be that Aradia, Kurloz, or the Signless. They never do anything on their own; they're court mages, acting on the beck and call of who they choose to follow. They're very passive.

[land-of-classpects-and-analysis]

Seer Result Class Description

We get it. You're not like "the others". You're cool, built different, and totally defy all expectations put your way. But how much can that mindset really help you feel fulfilled with your life?

You're someone who's meant to invite knowledge of your Aspect, but you're also a really, really good procrastinator. Your Aspect has been trying to contact you about your life's extended warranty, buddy - answer it.

Chances are that your friends probably describe you as someone who only answers to what you deem to be the most reasonable or easily bendable to your rulebook.

However, your own rules can only get you so far. Avoiding the presence of your Aspect will become less and less feasible the further in your journey you get.

No one is saying you have to know every last piece of your Aspect at once. While it may feel like that's what's expected of you, it doesn't have to be what you actually do. Start out slow and methodical, if you can. Try to help people find the little answers to their smaller problems. Work your way up to solving the grand puzzles that leave most people's heads spinning.

While you may follow your own rules, you're still a good person. Even if you disagree, or feel like you aren't, you are. Seers are those who want to help people find a better path in life. That's what it means to Know your Aspect - so that when it comes knocking over into other people's lives, you'll know how to help navigate them through and out of it. The more you practice this ability, the closer you get to eventually acquiring Knowledge through your Aspect. It will now become a part of you and your rulebook, rather than you having to answer to it.

A well-adjusted Seer is someone who has a plethora of knowledge to share, and is also open to learning more about the blind spots they may otherwise not know about.

[starlit1daydream]

Introduction to my Classpecting Ideas

This felt like a good idea for something to put out before I put my Knight & Page analysis out there, since I plan on making this a 6 part series. (Potentially 7 if demand for a Lord/Muse addendum is high enough).

So, I'll be laying out my most important philosophies on the subject here for future reference.

Classpecting is...

Point A. Classpecting is malleable.

There is not one rigid, set definition for any Class pair, or any Aspect pairing. The freedom of the author is that they may assign any symbolism to a concept that they may like.

What I mean by this is that people often seem to think that manifestations of an Aspect within Homestuck's narrative paint that object or idea as a concept inherently tied to that Aspect.

Example: Pumpkins & Void. You would not believe the amount of people in the early fandom who swore by the idea that pumpkins were inherently just Void constructs because of their role in Homestuck's narrative.

No? Pumpkins symbolise Void in Homestuck itself and Homestuck itself only only due to a running gag inherent to Homestuck itself.

Anything, with enough narrative basis and existing thematic ties, can serve to symbolise an Aspect. Furthermore, two different authors may have different ideas of what Aspect something represents.

Some authors may see alcohol, for example, as a Void-bound concept owing to its obfuscation of fair judgement. Some may see it as a Light-bound concept owing to the idea of 'in vino veritas' and the tendency of drunkenness to induce truthful confessions. Some may see it as a Life-bound concept owing to its associations with hedonism and impulsive behaviour.

With enough narrative consistence, anything is possible. Homestuck's narrative is not as rigid of a point of reference as some people would swear by it being. This is deeply important.

Point B. Classpecting is not the whole of a character.

I can't exactly phrase this in a satisfactory manner, but... a Classpect is not a personality type in of itself. An individual being a Prince of Heart does not instantly make them Dirk Strider. It merely means that their core value is identity & selfhood, and they interact with it by destroying it. It is that simple!

I see, time and time again, Classpecting blogs acting as if a Classpect is indicative of a character's whole personality and giving guides as to the exact behaviours & quirks a character with that Classpect should have.

I am imploring you to explore wider possibilities when it comes to this. Even if it means sharing a title with a canon character! It doesn't mean you have to just rewrite that canon character because that's not how Classpecting works.

I've seen fanventure characters share titles with canon characters. (Sovereignstuck's Annomi Errata & Dynama Zarrow sharing titles with Dirk & Porrim respectively, and Porrim herself is also a player in that narrative, mind you!)

I've seen fanventure characters share titles with eachother. (Vast Error's Dismas Mersiv is a Rogue of Mind. One of my fantrolls is also a Rogue of Mind!)

In every instance, they are fundamentally different people. I cannot put it any simpler than this.

Point C. Classpecting is always applicable.

That is the perfection of the Classpecting system. You can give a title to any character, from anything ever made. It's not even that difficult if you're half-decent at media analysis!

Quite literally all you need to do is ask yourself two questions.

"What's this character's core value?" and "How do they interact with that?" Do that, and you've got yourself a Classpect.

That's the beauty of it! It's obviously not going to be as airtight as a story that has the Classpecting system baked directly into the narrative, but it's still going to work out!

Hell, do it to yourself! Do it to your friends! The world's your oyster. You can do anything you want, forever, for the rest of time. I'm a Seer of Life! My best friend is a Page of Blood! My mother is a Witch of Hope! Go wild.

Post formatting

For my Classpecting posts, I'll aim to give two related definitions for every Class.

Definition A is the narrative function, what the Class says about the person and how they interact with their Aspect as an abstract concept.

Definition B is the practical function, what the Class says about their role in the session and how they interact with their Aspect as a SBURB construct.

Therefore, we get an idea of both the abstract, personal definition of a Classpect, and the functional, game application of a Classpect.

I'll also aim to give about two or three examples for each individual title about how you could write a character with them, since there are always going to be multiple directions you can take with a Classpect.

Conclusion

tl;dr - what I'm trying to say is this. Classpecting is malleable, easily applicable & capable of saying any number of things, and my posts will aim to give two concise definitions of both narrative and practical function for every title.

I'll get the Knight:Page analysis done either today or tomorrow, and the rest of the Class posts will be staggered releases in order of poll results. Thus, the order is going to be:

Knights & Pages, Deficiency and Exploitation.

Mages & Seers, Experience and Comprehension.

Witches & Heirs, Adherence and Manipulation.

Princes & Bards, Instability and Destruction.

Thieves & Rogues, Inundation and Redistribution.

Maids & Sylphs, Maintenance and Generation.

And, potentially...

7. Lords & Muses, Absolution and Dominion.

And then, subsequently, the order for the Aspect posts, which I've decided based on relevance to the canon, roughly speaking anyways...

Space & Time, Genesis and Terminus.

Breath & Blood, Fluidity and Stability.

Light & Void, Potential and Simplicity.

Heart & Mind, Instinct and Dialectics.

Life & Doom, Progress and Stagnation.

Hope & Rage, Conviction and Iconoclasm.

I look forward to the next post. Until then, take care.

[sburbian-mechanics]

do you think a session could survive if both the time and space players are seers?

Not looking for in-depth classpect explanations or anything, we’re siblings if that changes anything.

You guys should be fine! Seers are actually really good at the Frog Quest, and even though Seers of Time can’t time travel, they can see the future and change the present to then change the future. Not to mention the seeing into other timelines thing, so Seers of Time are still just as helpful as any other class! Actually, the less time travel causing paradoxes the better. Paradoxes are how you get Doomed Timelines!

—————<|>—————

[heir-of-light-shenanigans]

Continuing to practice the MSFPA style but this time it’s one of my OC’s!! Her name is Miraii she’s the Seer of Time and I plan on using her for an MSPFA I’m writing!

[prince-of-time-pt]

Anyways, I would like to bring attention to the simple fact of: if you are having trouble classpecting yourself there is a 100% chance you are not a Prince, Thief, or Seer.

There IS a good chance you are a Page, Rogue, or Sylph.

[sburbian-sage]

if a seer can have a den then what can the other classes have?

Well, let's break down why a Seer would have a den. Firstly, their job is about gathering knowledge and then compiling it into actionable information. This can be done on the field, but sometimes you need to sit down and think, do research, settle on a plan, etc., and a den serves that purpose. They're functionally a combination of library, laboratory, red-string conspiracy corkboard, and sometimes psychedelic drug pad. In fact I've often seen Seers, if they don't want to turn a pre-existing room into a den, hijack a pre-existing library, either their own (bougie fucks) or someone else's (lots of free real estate on the battlefield). Secondly, Seers are a passive class. They make a plan, and hand it off to someone else. This often happens over text, but sometimes, purely for ornamental purpose, some Seers will send you a message like "for thou, a prophecy, thine destiny awaits" and then you have to visit them IRL, and they've installed a smoke machine and lit some incense, and then they give you the prophecy. It might be an Roleplay Coefficient thing, acting out the symbolism of your Title. It might just be ego-inflation. I strike the balance by believing it's mostly bullshit, but it is fun bullshit, so whatever.

So with that in mind, the equivalent of a Seer's den for other classes would be... Any rooms you have that you stock to help you fulfill your duties. So a Combat Class (Page/Knight) might have an armor, or a training room, which the Protectors (Dame/Guard) and Champions (Sylph/Bane) could also stand to benefit. As a Sage, I've also benefited from having a research room, certainly, though a journal is a mobile option. Maybe the Creatives (Smith/Muse) have a sort of workshop? And broadly speaking you could just say that this applies to any room in your house. The bedroom is pretty critical for everyone, both as a fortified place of comfort, and an ideal place to grind your sleeping skills at. The Seer's Den isn't really a distinct game mechanic, it's just a behavior that either some Seers engage in, or it's something that everyone does and we just mystify it when Seers do it.