#So does Telemachus’s loving father

[adrift-in-thyme]

Odysseus is terrifying when he’s angry: confirmed

[college-cryptids]

thinking about telemachus recently and how odysseus was gone for like. his entire life. strictly speaking, telemachus wasn't the child of a single parent but he may as well have been. do you think that showed through, when odysseus did finally return home?

certainly, he was always a mama's boy. no one doubted that. he had no one else, after all. there was laertes, and the men around the palace (who harbored a disgust for the horde of suitors that almost rivalled penelope's) and he loved them all dearly, but it was not the same. telemachus grew up loving his mother with all of his heart, and defending her with all his strength.

and then this man comes home, and he has telemachus' smile and he knows things that only telemachus' father would know, but he is a stranger. odysseus arrives home as a creature of myth, the misty stuff of fables that you could almost touch if you reached, but never quite grasp. telemachus does not know this man, but seeing him that day in the throne room is the first time in twenty years that penelope has shed tears of joy instead of pain, so he decides there must be something to him. he smiles at this man's jokes and listens raptly to his stories (and he does have so many stories!) but there is always that distance there. a gap in the planks of the bridge, a crevasse that's just too wide to jump across. he tries to know him, but it is not as easy as either of them would like it to be.

it is penelope that finally bridges the gap. telemachus finds her in tears again one day, tucked away somewhere odysseus would not see, and he rushes to his mother's side, but when he reaches her she cups his face the way she did when he was a boy. her hands are thinner now than they were then, and there are lines on her face that had not been there before, but behind the glimmer of tears is that spark. that strong, intelligent spark that first drew odysseus to her; that spark that convinced young telemachus that his mother could rival athena in wisdom if she wished to be so bold.

but these tears, he finds, are not the ones he expected. as penelope takes her son into her arms she whispers, you're just like him. you're so much like your father, and i am so proud.

and that sticks.

telemachus meets the stranger with his father's face and thinks, he's just like me. he watches him laugh the way he himself does, he compares his face and odysseus' in a mirror and the similarities make him smile this time. he hears others in the palace tell of the king's courage and his wit and he thinks, perhaps i can be like him. perhaps he is like me.

telemachus greets odysseus that night and calls him father, and for the first time, the word does not feel strange on his tongue.

it feels right.

[xixovart]

tel/ody/pen stuff i’ve had in my silly brain for a while

first off i see everyone talking about how long it takes for telemachus to get used to odysseus actually being there and getting to know him as a person rather than a legend, but.. however. the first ‘i love you’s. cause odysseus is used to telling telemachus he loves him. i mean thats his kid, he knew him as a baby, and he knew he loved telemachus. but like. tel doesn’t know odysseus. like he does, but barely. he knows odysseus is his father and he’s used to the idea of that, and he knows he’s supposed to love him, but they missed 20 years of each other’s lives. so? when doesn telemachus tell ody he loves him?? great question. it happened 8 months after odysseus returned, right after dinner and story time. it slipped out as telemachus left the dining hall and bid his father goodnight. it came naturally and telemachus didn’t even realize what he’d just said. odysseus was WRECKED.

for the first few weeks after odysseus got back, telemachus slept in his and penelope’s room. like they wpuld just NOT be apart. even after that they still never let each other out of their sight for too long. guys seperation anxiety and abandonment issues in this family are SEVERE but they do work through it it’s okay

once he’s comfortable, telemachus tells odysseus secrets and stories not even penelope knew about.

odysseus has a hard time seeing telemachus as an adult and not an infant. like it’s so weird for him to believe that the child he once held in his arms is a man now.

subsequently, odysseus and telemachus do a lot of infantile father-son things together. to make up for the years they lost. they skip rocks, swim in lakes, tell really stupid horror stories. and then they rule a kingdom as king and prince. they talk business, travel, kill suitors.

odysseus and penelope rule the kingdom EQUALLY!!!! this is so important because its set in ancient greece, when queens were typically only used to bear princes and to adorn the king. penelope has just as much say in what does and what does not happen in ithaca. they’re partners. in marriage, crime, and ruling.

[masterofthewarcry]

my favorite thing about odypendio is that there are no lines between platonic and romantic love. diomedes and odysseus pick each other over and over again over the course of the war. they eat together, they bathe in the sea together, they kill people together. odysseus spends over a decade of his life trying to return to penelope. penelope fends off a hundred men trying to take his place because she KNOWS he’s not dead. diomedes does his best to help her but refuses to marry her because odysseus CANT be dead. penelope and diomedes raise telemachus together and fill his life with stories about his father so that when he returns telemachus will already love him. diomedes drops his sword when odysseus tries to fight him after assuming he’s here to try for penelope’s hand. odysseus can’t bring himself to actually do it. they slaughter the suitors together. and penelope hugs them both afterwards despite how they’re covered in blood. because they love each other in ALL the ways. because they’re three parts (a silver tongue and wit, discipline and strength, cleverness and talent at the loom) of a greater whole (athena)

[lovely-p-issues]

Fic idea - Astyanax in Ithaca

for times when my English will become acceptable because writing this in Polish feels not right sample of the story under the summary c:

Of course, I was thinking about Penelope's reaction to Odysseus showing up with a new kid (10/11 years old, give or take, Astyanax) at their doors.

I imagined it as the Game of Thrones scene when Ned Stark comes home and shows Catelyn a baby who, he claims, is his bastard. If I were her, I would lose my mind.

But I think that Odysseus explained himself chaotically, yet truly and Penelope didn't fight with the idea of raising the little prince as their own.

But Telemachus? Well, that's a hell of a different story.

He spent his childhood without his father, missing his presence and hoping to meet him one day. He lived in his shadow, as the problematic son of the absent king that everyone wanted to kill, or as a painful reminder to his mother that Odysseus wasn't around anymore and that she needed to be there for the two of them.

Now his dad is back but with a new child.

A new child who knows his father so well. Odysseus was his only parent for ten years (if we forget about 600 uncles, but they died after like 3 years? if I get it right?) and they just get themselves on an impossible level.

Odysseus knows Astyanax's nightmares (they share them).

Astyanax knows his father's past and doesn't need to ask many questions, and Telemachus does. He hates to do it because he sees Odysseus's pain, he sees Astyanax's reproachful look, like he is going to fight Telemachus if he doesn't leave their father, and-

and he sees the sad, concerned eyes of his mom.

So he doesn't ask much about those 20 years. And somehow it's even worse.

Because Telemachus doesn't know Odysseus. Because it feels weird and not home, like they are forced to be close, but they are not. Because he knew his father from songs, stories and legends, and this man is not who he heard of and he doesn't know how can he fix it.

Telemachus doesn't like to think about it but feels like he gives up on Odysseus. He spent the last 20 years of his life trying to reach that man and- Telemachus is tired.

Besides, Odysseus has another son anyway, right?

The prince of Troy, cursed boy, son of Hector, Astyanax, who also turned out to be a pain in the ass.

He knows that he can't blame the kid for his existence or even for the fact that Odysseus took him to their home.

For that Odysseus often takes Astyanax for horse rides to show him the island. The thing that Telemachus did alone.

For that, Odysseus teaches the boy how to use a sword and they laugh a lot during that. The thing that Telemachus did with strangers, got dozens of bruises, always trying to do everything he could to impress the person that wasn't there.

He doesn't blame Astyanax.

He just can't stand him.

But the boy seems to love the idea of going after him whenever Odysseus manages to pull him off for a moment. It's okay when Astyanax watches him during the trainings with eyes shining with excitement. However, it's bad when Astyanax starts to talk.

Father said I'm getting better at parrying-

When I was with father on Calypso's island-

Father does this completely differently-

Telemachus is a patient man. He waited for his father for 20 years. But sometimes he asks himself if Astyanax knows that all this talking about Odysseus, the man he missed but can't actually get to know, is such a trigger for him.

Maybe Astyanax teases him to show how much more of a son Odysseus is?

With every day Telemachus is more and more irritated. He does his best to hide it, but he can't ignore this fire burning him from the inside.

The reason for this fragile peace collapse is, relatively, very stupid.

Telemachus was tired after all day when he met Odysseus.

"The situation in the city is now calmed down,’ he informed his father, combing through his wind-tangled hair."

Odysseus nodded and put a hand on his shoulder.

"Thank you, Telemachus. Well done."

Telemachus froze, not knowing what to say. He couldn't even move. Finally, he nodded, wincing slightly at the awkwardness of his every interaction with his father.

"Of course, father."

Odysseus seemed equally perplexed. However, the whole situation changed when Astyanax appeared in the courtyard where they stood.

Or, he ran into it, almost toppling over, just to get to Odysseus faster and embrace him around the waist.

"Dad, you will never believe what I found with mother in the garden!"

Telemachus watched with unhealthy interest as his father's face lit up with a smile as he listened to Astyanax's excited chatter.

A sudden anger, though senseless and petty, flared his veins. He had to avert his gaze and drive it into the ground so that no one could see his anger. His jaw was clenched tightly.

Twenty years of life based on a vague memory. An entire journey to find his father. His faith, his efforts and his devotion. All this to not be able to have one real conversation with his father. All this to watch both his parents melt down over his new, little brother. All this to stand by and watch his dreams fade away.

He no longer watched.

He walked away before he could do something stupid. Something that would distance him even further from his father.

He holed up in one of the cool and dark corridors of their palace. He concentrated on his breathing and massaged his temples.

He was an adult and knew how to deal with his feelings. Not that anyone had ever taught him that.

"Telemachus, what's wrong? You don't even know what we found in the garden, you went too fast!"

He didn't know shit about how to deal with his feelings.

"Could you, for five minutes, let me live as I lived before you came along? Five minutes without your constant footsteps and shouting behind my back. Five minutes of peace and quiet! That's all I'm asking for!"

But Astyanax took a few steps back as if frightened by Telemachus' sudden outburst. A grimace twisted his face and he squinted as if Telemachus was an extremely difficult puzzle for his quick mind.

"Why are you so angry? I don't understand."

"At this point? I'm not sure anymore. All I know is that I wasn't this angry even once before you dragged yourself home with father and decided to act as if it had all been yours forever."

Telemachus had to calm down. For bloody hell, he had just shouted at the eleven-year-old as if he was guilty of anything.

‘Are you angry about your father bringing me with him?’

Damn it.

It wasn't true. To be fair, he did not want Astyanax to die that night in Troy or be lost in the depths of the burning city.

Still, did he want him here? He let his thoughts wander before he could finally admit it to himself.

Astyanax, essentially, was not the problem. Everything else was. Telemachus was as well.

"No. There are many other things I'm angry about, but not this."

He sat down on the floor and leaned against the cool wall. He hid his face in his hands and let the anger leave him with his next breaths.

"Forgive my shouting. You got me at the wrong time, brother."

And he heard the boy slowly slide down the wall and sit down a few steps away from him.

"You should be grateful, you know?" suddenly said Astyanax. "He travelled all the world to see you and Mom."

You won't scream, Telemachus said to himself. He took a breath.

"Yeah, he didn't really know me, so. I don't know if that counts."

"That's even better. I mean, he loved you anyway. All this time, he was thinking about you"

This logic was wrong, but Telemachus doesn't find enough strength to fight over it.

They stayed silent for a few minutes.

"He didn't want me, you know? He just didn't want me dead and I reminded him of you. He was also scared of what I would become if he just left me alone. And you are so awful but he wanted you from the beginning and he loves you and he was so proud and-" Astyanax put his arms around his knees, his voice breaking as he spoke his next words: "You're a terrible idiot, you know. But he still wants you."

Telemachus needed a few seconds to see that every now and then, Astyanax would rub his wet eyes with his little fists.

He wasn't ready for this, even after months of training he wouldn't be ready. He stays silent for a moment. Slowly, he puts his arms over the crying mess and draws him to his side.

"And you think that father carried you all over the world because he doesn't like you?"

"Because he's kind and he would be ashamed to tell uncle Polites what he did."

"As far I know he wasn't so nice all this time, right? But he never turned his back on you. If you don't trust me, trust that. Odysseus came with you to Ithaca, because he wants you."

Astyanax did not reply but rested his head on his side. Telemachus let him.

Later that night, Telemachus carried a tired Astyanax straight to his parents' bedroom and knocked. When confused Odysseus finally opened it, Telemachus threw the sleepy child at him without hesitation.

"Hug your bloody kid."

And he walked away. This was his moment to avoid uncomfortable questions.

Let me know what do you think. And yes, Telemachus and Odysseus have a proper conversation about being father and son, but later.

BTW sorry for all the errors, I'm so sleepy right now I barely see my screen

[talkaboutanythingcuswhynot]

Imagine how Telemachus felt after his father finally came home.

His father who is more of a stranger.

His father who his mother’s suitors made seem like a monster, or something that’s not even worth a dust.

His father who his mother has spoken so highly about, her eyes full of grief and love.

But when he meets his father, he is just a man. He is perhaps disappointed-or relieved, who knows?-but he feels like it’s okay, because he spent his life trying to defend him, wondering if his father would be proud of him or approve him-and he does, he is nothing but a man who has flaws, and he looks at him as if he is the most precious thing in the world and he fee his chest tighten every time-.

And it’s after his father tells all his stories from his journey, when he wish his parents good night and in his bed, he realizes, his father is nothing but a man. A man who has desperately tried to make home, who has survived from Poseidon’s fury because of them.

A man who loves them more than anything.

And it’s after this realization he actually see and talk with his father, and let the bond grow between them.

[babushka-of-chaossss]

MORE WISDOM SAGA THOUGHTS

Calypso claims that “goddesses can’t die” and what does Athena do at the end of the saga? “Dies”! So Calypso foreshadows Athena’s return

during We’ll be Fine, Telemachus mirrors Odysseus when he first meets Athena by using the same rifts, and immediately claiming her as friend, I think this is why Athena is so moved, because she sees what she first saw in Odysseus in Telemachus

I've seen lots of people ranting about how Athena’s response to Aphrodite was kinda dumb. It was, and this was intentional because it shows just how little Athena knows about love, and how she learns by the end of the song what it truly means to care about someone

the end of God Games is is meant to mirror My Goodbye, in the sense which Odysseus and Athena’s relation ship is meant to be reflected in Athena and Zeus so now being attacked and disgraced by her father Athena feels sympathetic to Odysseus, who she left in a similar position after abandoning him

[deadbaguette]

Odydiopen Diomedes goes to Ithaca AU my Beloved????? Yess?????? Please???????

But I is curious *squint*

Does Telemachus come to subconsciously see Diomedes as a father? Or does he hate him for seemingly taking Odysseus' place? Secret third option? - @elixs-mythology-corner

Fellow Diomedes goes to Ithaca AU enjoyers!! I cheered ❤️

But to answer your question, it’s like a mix of the first one and a secret third option. Telemachus doesn’t really have a father figure to reference what he SHOULD consider a dad, in his eyes there was no place for Diomedes to take. As sad as it is, Telemachus doesn’t have an idea of Odysseus’ place as a father in his life. But, Diomedes does make it clear to him that he isn’t his dad. He tells him that a lot, never out of malice, but rather through ways in which he’s telling him of Odysseus. In a way he’s carving a place for Odysseus in Telemachus’ life, but in order to do that he does kinda have to act like something that resembles a father. He’ll do all these dad like activities, but while telling him of Odysseus. All the lessons he teaches Telemachus are ones Odysseus taught him in some way. Diomedes didn’t know what a father was supposed to be like, but he learned it from Odysseus telling him about Telemachus and stories of him and Penelope.

Diomedes is for all intents and purposes, something like a dad to Telemachus. Or at the very least he fulfills some of the roles of one. BUT, ask Diomede about it? He’ll tell you he’s not. Ask Telemachus? He can’t really give you an answer because Diomedes to him is just Diomedes (Diomedes makes this clear to him), and he doesn’t have a reference for if he should consider him a dad.

It’s complicated lol😭 But thank you for the ask! I loved elaborating on it since I find found family relationships SO interesting to talk about

[limblesstar]

odysseus the line cook au

odysseus is a line cook, 40 years old, hasnt gotten a promotion in the decade hes worked there

coworker is diomedes, fresh(ish) out of culinary school, head chef , 27

odysseus is not very fond of this fact

its a fine dining restaurant, they do not act like it is.

boss is circe who cannot stand any of them,

their manager is hermes, he is chill with everything going on, doesnt really care as long as the kitchen is clean and they get dishes out. too busy smoking weed. could of had his own restaurant but didnt want the responsibility

married to penelope whos a professor in textile materials and technology, busy teaching and grading papers usually.

odysseus and diomedes have a very weird hot work situationship, his wife is very okay with it. odysseus is in love with him

theyre just bros, its not gay to fuck in the walk in freezer

what they do depends on the day and how much they can get away with.

penelope actually wants diomedes to move in so he 1. pays bills 2. she can pawn telemachus onto him 3. wants to know whats up

odysseus chain smokes on his break. he desperately wants to quit because his wife thinks its kind of gross and second hand smoke but he just cant kick the habit

lives in an apartment complex, absolute girlfailure.

poor relationship with father, could of been the greatest nepo baby but dropped out of his degree in commerce to go to culinary school

THIEF AND A LIAR

house is filled with equipment from his work, biggest thing hes stolen is a stand mixer that he convinced circe he threw out because it was broken. everything in his fridge is stored in a stolen quart container

doesnt steal any produce because he thinks its poor quality

ACTIVELY HATES CUSTOMERS

if diomedes wasn't there odysseus would be spitting in peoples food (he does it if the customers piss him off enough and if diomedes isnt looking)

maternal family has mob connections that he doesnt use (he can do it on his own)

on his off day he likes to bbq on his balcony to the displeasure of all his neighbours. hangs out with his son too

[zarnzarn]

@irondork tags on the first post made me go heheh out loud so heres part two of the reverse odyssey au

||

1/2/3?

They set out in the morning.

Laertes and Anticles have taken over the throne until they return with the lost king, tears in their eyes as they wave the ship off, the smallest and sleekest one, fitted with twice the sails. Penelope and Telemachus keep their eyes on Ithaca until the last moment, her nails digging into his shoulder as they stand at the bow, and then she sighs and turns them to the captain's cabin with determination.

They turn into the open ocean with nothing but hope, all thirty five men that could fit in the boat rowing unrelentingly. She remembers some of them from the march out. They had left years ago as farmers and theives, come back as weatherbeaten soldiers, loyal and hardworking.

And guilty. Grieving, even, that their king gave up his life for them, thirty-five of them with either no one to go home to, or over-dedicated to the king, or filled with some odd sense of machismo, Cmietine had said, the night before they left.

Penelope knew better. They loved her husband, these men, to the bone, as had all the others who had begged and pleaded to be chosen to come. She knew better than anyone what it was like, after all, to have Odysseus look at you with his Athena-gifted eyes, to have him pull you in with a warm around your shoulders and a rakish grin as he flattered and joked and laughed. Knew better than anyone what it felt like to be caught in his wit and loyalty, to have his love and knew that helplessly, you could not help but love him in return. And for him to have fought by their side for ten years, brought almost every man home alive?

She knew the men loved Odysseus.

And she would use that well.

"Full speed ahead!" She shouts, trying to remember the confidence of her husband's orders, and keeps her eyes on the birds.

The first year, they sail until they run out of food, all the way back to Troy and then around, with one man in each direction awake at all times to search for even a glimpse of their wayward king. Penelope demands stories while they sail, of every scrap of her Odysseus from their eyes, encouraging them with what she can, making plans and strategies with Polites and Eurylochus and everyone else for when they find him.

They treat her with respect, to her surprise, never favouring another's order over hers or hesitantly explaining the reasons why they couldn't instead of dismissing her outright, that she wryly thinks must be at least partly borne of fear.

"I mean no offense, my lady," one of them says one day, rowing hard as he talks, after she says this. "But he really never shut up about you, ever. He once spent an entire evening after battle yelling at us how you would have done better."

She laughs at the thought, cheeks hot, even as the other sailors yell about disrespect and conduct before the queen and throw various things at the young man's yelping face.

Telemachus grows well on the ship. He finds it as easy to adapt as both his parents, and is beloved by the sailors as their own as he learns to handle ropes and oars and sails.

He does not understand the curse, does not understand why the adults around him weep so much, only knows that his father now swims in the waters and needs to be brought home.

Perhaps that is why he is the one to glimpse the scales in the water on the day they run out of food, despite Penelope's strictest rationing, when they all gather on the deck to hang their heads before one last speech, as the order is finally given to turn the ship back around home.

"Hello!" He shouts, waving wildly. "I'm Telemachus! Your son!"

His father blinks at him with five eyes- greyer than his, but still grey like his own- then smiles widely, waving back.

Telemachus hears gasps and cries and his mother's shout, but doesn't really wanna turn- he's finally seeing his father! After so long! Which means they can finally go home!

Penelope nearly trips them both overboard with how hard she rushes into him, one hand to her mouth as she sees Odysseus at last, at last. He looks gaunt, tail no longer silver but bright with dappled orange and red and yellow, dark brown like his hair, and they watch his expression wobble and tears leak onto his wet face as all thirty five of them clamber to the side of the ship, trembling with emotion as they shout greetings at him.

"Odysseus!" Penelope screams, laughing with joy as she gathers her chlamys up and steps onto the edge of the ship, ignoring the panicked rush of men trying to grab at her and the begging for Telemachus to stop trying to follow her bad examples. "Come here, you great idiot- where have you been?"

He swims closer almost hesitantly, diving under a wave and then reappearing next to the boat. He looks- shy, of all things, something like raw fear crossing his face as he flicks his tail and comes closer, even as the men run to get the nets, the ropes, the tub. Penelope laughs and reaches over the bow of the ship to strain downwards, arm outstretched to her husband, tears streaming down her face as he catches the next wave enough to meet the tips of her fingers.

And then Eurylochus next to her bellows, "NO!"

They all nearly jump out of their skin, and Penelope turns to look at her brother-in-law running across the deck to where one sailor is undoing the rope wound around a dirty rucksack, bag falling from his hand in shock.

Odysseus' fingers barely touch her own as the wave passes by, and then the winds of Aeolus still trapped in the bag burst out in a furious maelstrom, carrying their ship away in one direction, pushing the ocean waters in a forceful blow in the opposite, leaving Penelope screaming her husband's name in desperation as they're pulled apart once more.

Odysseus' answering scream of horror carries on the wind back to them, and then nothing at all.

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

The Horse and the Infant and I'm Just a Man perfectly sets up Odysseus's character arc (so far).

In The Horse and the Infant, he asks the men

"What do you live for?  What do you try for?  What do you wish for?  What do you fight for?"

and Odysseus answers that he lives for Penelope, he tries for Telemachus, he wishes to go home, and he fights for his family. there's his entire motivation, laid out clearly in the first two minutes of the musical. the 'why' of everything he does.

and how determined is he? what would he do to get home? what wouldn't he do for his family?

we learn that in the next five minutes. he's faced with a baby who, if left alive, will kill Odysseus and his family. Zeus assures him of this, he knows for certain it will happen.

but it's just a boy. Astyanax is a child. Odysseus is a father, Odysseus loves his family and he loves little boys. he begs Zeus for an alternative, any alternative. his first idea is to raise Astyanax himself! he doesn't want to hurt the baby. he'd rather die than hurt the baby ("I'd rather bleed for you"). but, Zeus promises him, this is the only way.

Odysseus holds Asyanax. he sings to him. he thinks of his family. he cries.

then he kills him.

Odysseus will do anything for his family. he will do whatever it takes to go home. he doesn't want to. he wants to be kind. he wants to greet the world with open arms. he wants to have mercy. his choices haunt him.

but, even if it means going back haunted and changed, he is going home

[nikoisme]

Personally I imagine that Telemachus has his mom's hair color and eyes,, but he still creepily looks like Odysseus. So, naturally, I have to ask:

Do you think that Penelope sometimes flinced when she saw her son? Because he looks so much like her husband?? Like, he would pass down the hallway and greet his mother, and she would think it's Odysseus - a flicker of hope on her face, only to realize it's her son. And after a while Telemachus doesn't know if that brief drop of her face is disappointment because it's him or because it's not Odysseus.

Do you think Eurycleia sometimes openly cried when she looked at Telemachus?? Because he has the same slightly impish grin just like his father?? Just like the boy she raised so many years ago?? Do you think she unconciously scrubbed more thoroughly around his thigh? Telemachus would wince at the sudden roughness and Eurycleia would realize that he doesn't have that scar that needed more cleaning to make sure debris didn't get stuck in it??

Do you think that Eumaeus would rush out of his hut when he heard Telemachus laugh? Because, as he got older, even his voice started sounding a bit like his father's?? Only to abruptly stop when he realized that it's not his master??

Do you think that even Telemachus would stare at a bronze mirror or at his reflection in a puddle and try to see his father - the one he barely remembers - in his own reflection?? He would imagine himself broader, stronger, with a beard?? His mother told him that he got his hair and eyes from her. So he tries to imagine something else in their place. He doesn't know what he's even looking for or thinking about. Just something, anything to get a bare idea of a man that is his father.

And do you think that as years went on, others started seeing more and more Odysseus in him and less and less Telemachus in him? Even if it wasn't intentional? They treated him like his father. They would offer him the fruit his father loved. They would sometimes expect him to wield the weapons his father could. They would tell him how much he looks like his father. And Telemachus would simply smile in response. But over time it was a slightly pained smile. At first he prided himself for all of that, he wanted to know everything about his father. He wanted to know how much of his son he is. But he finds the fruit sour. His arms slightly tremble when he tries to string a bow (not necessarily The bow™).

Do you think that over time, even he started feeling less and less like himself? Do you think that subconciously he tried acting like his father (based on the stories he's heard)? For the kingdom's sake, for his mother's sake, for his own sake? After all, "son of Odysseus" was his main trait. He was haunted by the ghost of the man he doesn't even know. But he does know him, doesn't he? Everyone tells him just how much he is like his father. But what part of him is like his father?? What part of him is like his father? Everything he does, everything he is, is apparently an echo of his father. But what part is Telemachus? What part of Telemachus is like his father? Is he like his father or is he slowly becoming his father? His voice isn't his own. His skin isn't his own. Hell, the blood in his veins isn't his own. It's the blood of Odysseus. Is that who he is?? A replacement for the king?? A mere stand-in until he comes back?? If he comes back?? Will he always have to act, to be a copy of his father?? Will he ever be himself? But who is he even? Who is Telemachus? Yes, he is the son of Odysseus (as a way of identification). But who is simply Telemachus?

DO YOU THINK?

[nonbinarylocalcryptid]

I'm gonna give you all (and at the same time, write It all down for my future self) an inside of how my writing process works feat. ADHD and sponsored by the autistic hyperfixation of the moment

*insert Professor Layton puzzle music*

Picture the #daddy Odysseus AU/Astyanax lives, now think about the timeline, how does that work? Allow me to bring up the following points/establish some sort of timeline:

-The kid must be ten years old by the time Odysseus reach Ithaca or the math won't be mathing and we can't have that

-This whole scenario must be as much Canon Compliant as possible. "But Morgan, the Odyssey has many adaptations!" Well my fellow Tumblr users, that's why we are sticking to Epic: The Musical; that, greek mythology and the power of fanfic make a dangerous yet powerful combination. And memes, a lot of memes.

-Keep in mind Zeus wants Astyanax dead because "it's the will of the gods", aka I'm inmortal and bored and it's way more dramatic this way

-Poseidon wants him dead because Zeus wants him dead. Odysseus, dude, how do you dare to defy a god's orders by keeping a baby alive???

-So the father and son duo has pissed off two major gods, Eurylochus is having an aneurism, Polited welcomes the kid with Open Arms (evil laugh)

-The musical goes as we know but with a toddler, chaos guys, chaos everywhere, so much things to write...

-My brain keeps telling me Astyanax starts teething by the time they leave the island in the sky, so not only have Odysseus to keep an eyes on the bag-that-does-not-contain-treasure he also is kept awake by a crying baby

-Tiresias is quite surprised that Odysseus keep the kid but this is greek mythology and at this point, in John Mulaney's wise words, this may as well happen.

-Little Astyanax can't not hold a sword because it's way too heavy for him, but the Odyssey is dangerous so let's give him a KNIFE and a BOW

-Also he's sassy, like, really sassy

-Odysseus is doing what he can, but lmao, try to raised someone in the middle of the Odyssey

-Let's pepper in some beautiful moments of paternal love because that's why we are here

-Odysseus has the mission to raise this kid with the perfect balanced of the Ruthlessness nad Open Arms philosophies, which is complicated because he is busy dealing with crysis after crysis and it's also hypocrital of him, he's way more ruthless with every day it passes.

-To maximize ✨DRAMA✨, Astyanax must learn about what happened in Troy and who he is (because guys, this is greek mythology, let's make it dramatic)

-Astyanax's opinion of the gods is quite cynic (can't blame him *cough cough* Zeus *cough cough*), but he still likes a few

-Because of the point above, this smol boy filled with rage and raised by Odysseus (dangerous combination) it's going to have a certified teenage rebellion and flee away in the middle of the night™ after facing Scylla and right before Mutiny and Thunder Bringer. This way, he can have a yelling match with his father figure, and Odysseus will face his crew alone etc

-I'm still working out in the how, but Astyanax will go back to Circe's island, and Circe will give out some really good advice and a power up, maybe even Hermes would stir up the pot a bit because damm, this shit is hilarious may as well fuck it all up a bit more.

-Astyanax reunites with Odysseus while he is fighting Charybdis, beautiful father and son moment blah blah blah, Astyanax is still salty (cuz they are in the middle of the sea hehe) but the time away has allowed him to rethink stuff. He is also a little shit and always has been so expect a lot of jokes and dark humour about Troy (coping mechanisms and all that). Odysseus could barely handle his sarcasm before, now he has no chance, he rather fight Poseidon blindfolded.

-Talking about Mr Why Did You Blind My Son, they faced him together.

-As the chaotic little shit he is, Astyanax assists Telemachus in his fight against the suitors. Telemachus does not know who this feral kid is but this is not the moment to ask questions.

-Athena loves the little shit, much to her surprised.

-Angst with Happy Ending because of the power of fanfic and headcanons

-Everything else after this point is slice of life feat. comedy

-Odysseus and Athena reconcialiation of we riot feat. Telemachus' face when he realizes who his friend was.

-Maybe a young man Astyanax decides to reclaim his throne helped by Telemachus and backed up by Ithaca?

[smilerri]

many thoughts about epic: the musical...

i am once again in the middle of essay writing but plautus is boring and my friend introduced me to this album so u already know I binged the entire thing

(quick warning for spoilers of homer's odyssey? if that's necessary?? man idk whatever)

first thoughts naturally concerned odysseus. i have hated this man with a burning passion ever since I started studying classics - i think he is irredeemably selfish, a liar masquerading as a 'resourceful hero,' and basically just a twat all around. that being said, i respect that epic is not an exact replica. in fact, i like that about it!

readings of odysseus as a loving husband and father, and a man who cares deeply for his crew and fellow warriors is one i would love to see reflected in the source text (though i admit i have only read two different translations so far, so this is subject to change depending on translators choice!), if only because it would be so so refreshing. and epic does that extremely well! i find epic's odysseus to be far more likeable, insofar as he is fueled not by greed for glory (kleos for the nerds out there) but rather the desire to return to his wife and son. (I personally would argue that, while homer's odysseus is indeed fueled by a desire for homecoming (nostos), it is not for the sake of penelope and telemachus, but rather concern over the security of his status and position within the household (oikos))

i also very much enjoy that the love he holds for his family is not an inherently positive trait. in the aeneid, and often in myth, it is achilles' son, neoptolemus/pyrrhus who kills the son of hector and andromache, astyanax by throwing him from the walls of troy - less common, it is odysseus (which i did not know until i googled it just now oops). homer's odysseus does not reject the gods. he is beloved by some, hated by others - he receives their boons and curses as they come. he revels in the attention of the divine, no matter positive or negative, for it is proof of his kleos. epic's odysseus is so much more... human. he doesn't vie for glory that reaches the skies. if anything, he rues it. in the horse and the infant he supplicates himself to (who i assume is) zeus - which is such a loaded act i am genuinely struggling to think of how to articulate it, but boy am I gonna try my darndest.

the act of supplication and guest-friendship (xenia) is a very key theme within the odyssey, and to a point in the iliad also - essentially, if a traveller were to arrive at your doorstep, you were obliged to let them in and provide food, drink, and lodgings to that traveller, no questions asked. in return (because reciprocity is VERY important in homer especially), the guest would provide entertainment, tales of their travels, etc, and would be respectful of their host. the patron of these travellers was zeus. any violation of these terms, on part of the guest or host, would be met with divine scorn. for odysseus to supplicate himself to zeus is therefore meta as hell, but I would instead bring attention to the echoing lyric "hes bringing you down to your knees." 'he,' assumedly, is astyanax. his father, hector, is dead; as is his grandfather, priam, and all of priam's other sons. at this point, one could assume that it is astyanax who is ruling troy, who is now the host of the city that odysseus, a traveller from another land, has entered and ransacked. zeus' 'prophecy' of astyanax growing old and seeking revenge (reciprocity! homeric greece had a 'revenge culture' - essentially 'an eye for an eye' as well as 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours,' though not always so clear-cut), therefore, would be odysseus' punishment for violating the terms of xenia.

supplication, however, is not limited to guest-friendship alone. for example, in odyssey 22, when odysseus slaughters the suitors occupying his home (is that spoilers?), their priest leodes supplicates himself at odysseus' feet, begging to be spared. odysseus takes his head from his neck in an instant. odysseus' kneeling before astyanax, therefore, is no simple act between a guest and his host - perhaps he is begging the infant for mercy, for forgiveness, or perhaps he is positioning himself for punishment; in killing astyanax, odysseus accepts his own death. perhaps this means his fate (which, in case of homeric epic, refers to the time and manner of one's death), or perhaps it is a part of him that has died. in just a man, odysseus asks "when does a man become a monster?" his killing astyanax prevents the boy from ever becoming a man, and spares him from a life fueled only by revenge and the need to regain his glorious birthright, and it turns him into a monster. just as he says he would, he trades in the world where he is 'just a man' for a world where he is a cruel beast, all for sake of his family.

(quick detour but i really like how odysseus' focus is primarily on penelope rather than telemachus. [insert deadbeat dad joke here], but in reality, he doesn't even know the boy. penelope he chose to marry and fall in love with - it's no question that he loves telemachus, but after ten years, it is only natural that he would miss his beautiful, tricky wife with more fervour than the child he never had the chance to love. it shows he is imperfect, even illogical - the son is the father's entire legacy. just as odysseus is 'son of laertes', so will telemachus be 'son of odysseus', the protector of his immortal heroic legacy. yet it is penelope whom odysseus yearns for.)

(another detour but "i'm just a man" is such a juicy lyric, because the entire message of homer's odyssey is that odysseus is not any man - he is a man that the muses deem worthy to inspire great poets to compose epic poems that persist through thousands of years and a million different voices - a hero. but epic's odysseus is not that hero. he is a man, trying to go home, craving comfort and the warmth of the hearth. these 'flaws' humanise him more than homer's odysseus could ever imagine.)

skipping over to polyphemus, odysseus violates xenia once again by killing polyphemus' sheep, albeit unwittingly. homer makes this violation very obvious - odysseus and crew eat polyphemus' cheese and wine while polyphemus tends to his sheep, knowing that the cave is obviously inhabited, and they even wait for polyphemus to return to ask for more. it is worth noting as well that, at this point, odysseus and crew are still jubilant about their victory, and unlike in epic, these 'detours' are purposeful, specifically so that odysseus can scope out the islands for anything of interest he can snatch and add to his spoils of war, adding to his kleos by means of physical wealth (timē) - which makes odysseus' offer of treasure to appease polyphemus all the more baffling in epic. this odysseus is a leader who prioritises the lives of his men over his own kleos, which makes the final lines - "you shall be the final man to die" // "what?" // "watch out!" - all the more heartbreaking. he wants to protect his men, so that they too may return to their families back on ithaca; the prospect of watching them die before his eyes after he already witnessed so many lose their lives in battle must be so utterly terrifying.

polyphemus is so excellently creepy as well! i loved him in the odyssey - this was where I really started to dislike odysseus, actually. he's a cyclops, obviously inhuman, yet he rears sheep and makes cheese and wine and weaves wicker baskets to keep them in, trying to play at humanity. i really did sympathise with him from the first time I read it. epic's polyphemus is similar, so very calm in his anger yet ruthless all the same, and demonstrates great restraint in comparison to his counterpart in the odyssey, who gets filthy drunk after mashing six men dead and allows odysseus+co. to fashion a stake with which to blind him. much of the violence against polyphemus, as well as the violation of xenia in homer's odyssey is 'excused' by the fact that polyphemus is a 'barbarian', to whom concepts of civilised people do not belong.

(very quick detour but polyphemus' first admonishment of odysseus - "you killed my sheep" up to "take from you like you took from me" - makes such heartbreaking parallels to astyanax's murder and the sack of troy. it almost provides a visualisation of the guilt that odysseus must still be battling. i would have loved to have been in his brain when he heard polyphemus say that.)

the mercy odysseus shows polyphemus is particularly interesting - homer's odysseus leaves him alive and tells him his name purely so that his name will spread and his kleos will grow. but epic's odysseus, despite his conviction to kill in survive and to avenge is fallen comrades in remember them, spares him. in part, this is to assure them an escape, so that the cyclops' giant body does not block their exit - but athena's interruption makes clear that this is not all. she criticises him, remarks "he is still a threat until he's dead." no doubt this calls back to zeus' warnings about astyanax, hence his refusal (or inability?) to commit to slaughter. for a homeric greek hero to allow a foe to live on after his allies had been slaughtered is a grave failure of reciprocity, casting shame on both the hero and their enemy. homer's odysseus escapes this with his reputation intact, since as a result polyphemus curses him to face poseidon's wrath - as I mentioned, for a hero, even negative attention from the gods is a good thing as it proves that their reputation/glory is known all over, even in olympus. but, as we have established, epic's odysseus cares not for kleos. the decision to tell polyphemus his name is entirely impulsive and irrational, grieving his comrades, hence athena's outrage.

the relationship between athena and odysseus is founded entirely on the principles they share, described in warrior of the mind (if anyone can lmk whereabouts this song fits in the timeline I will be so grateful, I'm stupid unfortunately :/). they value wisdom, reason, and rationality over brute strength and bloodlust. epic's athena becomes odysseus' patron goddess with the goal to "make a greater tomorrow" and "change the world" - aspirations that are entirely foreign to any homeric god. gods in homer do not care about the wellbeing of humans unless they are directly related to them, and they certainly don't care about the wellness of humanity as a whole. humans are toys and tools of the gods. the amount that athena cares for odysseus, even in the odyssey, is unusual, demonstrative of how much she cares for him, yet epic makes their comradery more obvious, even going as far as to (tentatively) call them friends. my goodbye frames athena's anger as disappointment at an experiment failed - calling back to warrior of the mind, where she claims to have "designed" him - but odysseus' replies to her makes clear that it is far more personal. perhaps, to her, odysseus acting so irrationally is even a betrayal; odysseus is abandoning the principles of reason they both once held and thus is forsaking all that they once shared and that she, as the goddess of wisdom, stands for.

ive always considered athena to be a very interesting goddess. she is a patron of both war, which in homer is only carried out by men, and weaving, the traditional work of women within the household - her very nature is a contradiction of masculine and feminine. although it is ares who is considered the 'black sheep' of the olympians for his brutality in war, epic's portrayal of athena through odysseus' lens paints her as lonely and ostracised - "since you claim you're so much wiser // why's your life spent all alone? // you're alone." It is clear that odysseus here does not view her as his patron at all, rather as a friend - and to that she takes offence, because she is a goddess, eternal and all-powerful. she does not need friendship or comradery; those are mortal concerns alone. personally, I see epic's athena as incredibly insecure. she cuts odysseus off because she cannot bare that a mortal has been able to read her so clearly, to see all the ugly parts of herself that she keeps hidden to retain the facade of the perfect goddess. she knows the paradox within herself - warrior and woman, immortal and alone - and rues that odysseus was able to see it as well. the cruellest part, the most ironic, is that his being able to figure out the true, imperfect nature of a god shows that he has not abandoned the path of the warrior of the mind. in fact, his wisdom extends beyond mortality into the realm of the divine. but athena is blinded by her anger and insecurity, and she says her goodbyes. she disappears from there, only to appear again to try to warn odysseus of his crew opening the bag of winds given to him by aeolus in keep your friends close, once again demonstrating her care for him, despite her anger.

the amount that odysseus cares for his crew is demonstrated time and again throughout the album, yet in the end, he still slowly loses their trust. aeolus' winds are the first sign. his crew betrays his orders upon the first whisper on the wind that he might be keeping treasure from them. the next sign, in puppeteer, is eurylochus' confession upon arrival to aeaea (circe's island), which odysseus brushes off, much as he brushed off eurylochus' concerns in luck runs out. then, in a matter of moments, 600 men are reduced to forty by the wrath of poseidon - which in itself is a significant change. while odysseus in epic is explicitly blamed for failing to kill polyphemus, homer's odysseus takes no responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of his men. it happens when they arrive at telepylos, which, unbeknownst to them, is home to the laestrygonians, a race of cannibalistic giants. odysseus, apparently sensing something off (who tf does he think he is, spiderman?), allows his entire fleet to enter the bay of telepylos while his ship alone remains outside - and when those ships are attacked and trapped, he alone takes his single ship and escapes, allowing twelve ships of men to be ripped apart and eaten by cannibals. an act which he shows no remorse for.

in my interpretation of homer's odyssey, it is this slowly slipping trust that eventually leads to his men ignoring his warnings and feasting on the cows of helios which leads to the deaths of all his remaining crew, including eurylochus and polites (spoilers? idk). so, once epic: the musical catches up to book 12 of the odyssey you WILL be seeing me again I hope ur excited.

there is definitely more i could say here, especially about the circe saga bcs ohhh my god I love circe and I love this circe especially (a female character with actual motive other than being a victim? homer could never) but unfortunately I'm running out of steam and I do in fact have 3 essays due this month (help) so I will probably return to this later !! hopefully its readable bcs I'm not going back to edit any of this ;)

[the-storyteller78]

Ok, the livestream of the Wisdom Saga broke me a little inside. And by a little, I mean a lot. Utterly. Entirely. And once I have all my thoughts together, expect a whole series of rants about every detail I managed to notice beyond the haze of my tears. But one realization I had was about Athena, Odysseus, and Telemachus.

Like many others, I thought it was hilarious that Athena would be up in arms defending Telemachus and openly calling him her friend when she knew Odysseus for much longer and was still in denial about their friendship. I thought there was something about Telemachus that was just more endearing to her, something that Odysseus lacked in character, in attitude, what have you. But with the release of the Wisdom Saga and all the reveals regarding so many of the unfinished little lyric blurbs we’ve heard before, one thing is clear: Athena would not be able to love Telemachus if not for Odysseus. Odysseus is the one who taught her what it is to have a friend. Odysseus is the one who held out his newborn son for her to hold, a privilege I doubt many had.

Without Odysseus, I honestly don’t think she would’ve given Telemachus a second glance. After all, she was searching for a warrior of the mind, and I don’t know that he would’ve lived up to even her prerequisite standards. Not worth the investment of her time, so to say. But because she does know Odysseus, because he showed her what it means to be more than a warrior of the mind, that there is more to life than walking alone, she changes.

She admits it. Odysseus is her friend. He is her friend, and she left him. And that acknowledgment brings her so much guilt she is unable to sleep at night. Guilt is not something she or any of the other Olympians would feel, especially not in relation to mortals. Why should they? Human lives are brief and meaningless. So for Athena to regret is not normal. Yet, she does.

She has learned humanity, and that is what leads her to Telemachus’ side. It is what allows her to cast aside old hurts and face up against Zeus to save Odysseus. It is what causes her to remember holding baby Telemachus in her arms all those years ago, and it is why that memory gives her the strength to persevere against her father’s onslaught.

It is why when she is on the ground, bloody and broken and beat, her last conscious words are used to beg for Odysseus’ freedom.

Her friend.

[fallen-angel-with-broken-halo]

Huge delay but also huge life problems. Let's get down to my rant about The Wisdom Saga.

"Legendary" is the introduction to Telemachus, now an adult. After all, it's been 20 years. And Ithaca still has no king. Telemachus is willing to face whatever monsters are thrown his way in order to find his father with the enthusiasm of the 20 something that he is. This is also where the light metaphor starts. This is a world filled with monsters, after all. Human or not. So he just wants to "bring the world some light." The repeated plea for strength to fight and protect his mother, of course, will pay off. Antinous right from the start establishes his dominance. Not only does he somewhat demean Telemachus for his youth, as he does repeatedly in the next song, but also riles him up into a fight by calling his mother a tramp, most likely to just get rid of him already. As per usual, there are some musical elements that repeat from previous songs. Which is adorable, considering that Telemachus never really knew his father. And yet, there are still melodies akin to Odysseus'. Like father like son.

"Little Wolf" perfectly captures three things. Firstly, the true face of the suitors. They're vicious, especially Antinous, who's basically the face of all 108. The fight is pure entertainment to him, like a gladiator match that's set up right from the start. After all, Telemachus should've died in that showdown. Antinous once again takes note of Odysseus being gone, basically calling out that Telemachus had no father figure. His last words in this song encapsulate everything there is to despise about the suitors. He's mocking the boy for losing, showing how much stronger he is in both physical and mental terms when urging him to cry where his mother could hear him, just to encourage helplessness. He also threatens both Telemachus and Penelope, basically promising that they would try to kill Telemachus and rape Penelope if she doesn't choose a new husband. Secondly, there's Telemachus and wolf imagery. We already know that wolves are established to have a connection to Odysseus and his crew, which makes me think that, in general, it refers to soldiers. On the other hand, Athena calls Antinous a dog, the rest of the suitors "all his kind." A dog is lesser than a wolf, while also maybe referring to how eager they were for Penelope. It's very clearly derogatory. Thirdly, we're already seeing a hint of how Athena changed since we've last seen her. She's very patient with Telemachus while also very much encouraging him to fight. She also praises his heart, showing that she has very much different priorities than she used to. (Also, is it just me, or does Telemachus sound so much like his dad sometimes in general, istg. Really good choice of casting.)

"We'll Be Fine" shows fully the transformation of Athena. She no longer thinks of Odysseus as her mentee, but her friend. Once again, the light metaphor appears with Athena mentioning Odysseus' light going dark, while Telemachus reassures her that she will find the light, everything will be fine. We see so much regret from Athena, the what ifs. She can no longer sleep at night, just like Odysseus couldn't because of losing his crew, his friends. Telemachus only shows what good she has done for him, that she can put the past behind and focus on learning from her mistakes, being his friend to redeem herself and find that life can still turn out great if you let go of your own overthinking. Telemachus saying that it's the best day of his life because he got in a fight and didn't die hurts. Also, Jorge already explored it in a tiktok of his own, but I really love how Telemachus mimicked the run from "Warrior of the Mind" that Athena used (which is so heartwarming, she's using Odysseus' melody again) and then he made it his own. He is not a baby, how some people in the fandom try to portray him, but he sure as hell is the most optimistic character we've gotten since Polites.

"Love in Paradise" is my favourite from the saga, which was so unexpected for me. This song is a lot! Starting with the long promised quick thought ability of Athena's, quickly skipping through the most important parts of the sagas since Athena's goodbye. But then we get to Calypso. And honestly, I believe that she wants to be the same way as the lotus. The moment you get a taste, you never want to leave. She repeatedly emphasises that her island, her love, this life with her, is a paradise. But Odysseus is not like Perimedes. His only reason to keep living, keep going, is his wife and son. Odysseus' anger towards the woman turning into fear/panic once she admits she's a goddess hits me in the feels, precisely because the gods are at fault for most, if not all, of his trauma. Meanwhile, Calypso doesn't care for his feelings, keeping him stuck in "paradise," which only led to him spiralling further throughout those 7 years. He was already on the verge of breaking when he ended up there. During the cliff scene, he is literally hanging on the last thread. There's nothing but screams of those he has lost. The only thing he can do is call out for his last living friend, Athena. This depiction of his mental deterioration is very precious to me. Calypso is so manipulative in this moment. I'm very much sure that all the callbacks to Eurylochus, to Anticlea, to Polites in her speech are meant to keep him there still. They are familiar, good. But they are also the ghosts of the past haunting him. Also, "I'm not your man" sang to the tune of "I'm Just a Man"? Jorge, when I catch you, Jorge-

"God Games" really shows the influences of games and anime in this musical. Although I believe this song could've very much benefited from being even longer, I understand why it's not. The fact that Athena admitted she rarely ever asks for favours from her father, yet he still punished her for winning his game? Zeus is truly well executed in Epic. Anyway, rolling back. Apollo truly did not care for this game. His argument was barely anything, easily rebutted. There wasn't much convincing at all happening. This was just silly. Also, considering Apollo is the god of prophecy, he knew Odysseus would reach home anyway. Hephaestus is also very easily convinced. His whole argument was Odysseus sacrificing his crew for his own life, also breaking their trust in "Scylla." But the fact that the crew betrayed him and failed to listen to him during "Mutiny" easily convinced him. (Also, I really loved the wording in this part, giving homage to Hephaestus as the god of forgery, and I loved the bells in Athena's part.) Aphrodite is well-written here in terms of her being a goddess of love. Odysseus never cheated, and nothing with Calypso was willingly, so she mentions instead the fact that he let his mother, Anticlea, die from heartbreak. Also, showing that the gods are still mad that he didn't kill the cyclops. This moment with Athena, where she asks Aphrodite to reconsider, really reminds me of Odysseus in "The Horse and the Infant" and "Mutiny." Which is why it's very interesting to me that Ares calls this Athena's "old tricks." Did she teach Odysseus that, then? It's just a little thing I love. (Edit: got this clarified, the reference is to slowing down time. Still like to think about the connection, however. No matter how fickle. It shows how much Athena has changed and that Ody had an influence on her!) Ares is. Well. Ares. Both in terms of his singing and lyrics, he is a brute force, not holding back. The complete opposite of Odysseus, who is viewed by the god as cowardly. Also, he insults Telemachus in the same breath. This moment really shows the rivalry between the siblings, which I adore. Athena does not stand for his bullshit, protecting Telemachus as her friend. Not only does she address to Aphrodite that "a broken heart can mend," rebutting her claim about breaking his mother's heart, but she also then promises bloodshed to Ares if Odysseus is released. Considering the two were lovers, they agreed simultaneously. Hera's part is fun and groovy, as expected. She's quite easily convinced once Athena appealed to her problem with Zeus' love affairs, mentioning that Odysseus never cheated on his wife. Zeus got pissed off, tried to kill his daughter because she won his game, like he had the emotional regulation of a toddler, and Athena let out her final plea for his release. The song is musically very interesting, the lyrics are so very fitting for the gods... I love it. Also, the fact that during Zeus' rage, he used the same words he used against Odysseus during "Thunder Bringer," now towards Athena, therefore demeaning her for her friendship with Ody and expressing his disdain with her going against his wishes? Amazing.