#That one will take longer to complete

[herefortheships]

On media portrayals of older women

Commentary on Lydia's characterization in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. 🕷

This post was originally a response to a post from two months ago, but it got so big (and also I kinda moved away from the topic a little), I decided to make it its own post. It's a long ramble, basically, about my feelings around how women over 30 tend to be written and how disappointing it often is, especially now that I am a woman over 30 myself.

Before I get to Lydia and my issues with how she was written in BJBJ, I just want to say something. There is a blatant unwillingness to represent an older woman who isn't a mother or, at the very least, married or divorced, and often those women who are depicted as individuals outside of these roles, tend to be either toxic or unhappy characters (Cruella De Vil totally came to mind when I just typed that 😆 But even Cruella is married in the original story). As a matter of fact, the ex-wife or divorced older woman is often depicted as a cruel, bitter, or even evil woman (Miranda Priestly form "Devil Wears Prada" came to mind. Hey, another iconic fashion industry character lol). Single older women are often also depicted as "ugly", or flat out scary characters (Miss Trunchbull in Matilda came to mind).

It's like for many screenwriters it's impossible to visualize a mature woman who isn't or hasn't been married, and is childless.

The issue is not that they are given these roles; the issue is that their character arcs often seem to revolve around these roles and their identity is very focused on being either the mom, the wife, or the ex-wife. More often than not, female characters over 30 that are good are usually moms or struggling wives, and their identity is confined or greatly centered around her role as the mother or the suffering wife. (Chances are, if she's happily married, she's either not the protagonist or the story is over 💀). And if it is not centered around these, then motherhood is something adjacent to the story in some way, shape, or form.

Using the first "Beetlejuice" movie we have an example of a happily married woman in a leading role, Barbara Maitland. She's not an older woman, per se, but she is a happily married woman in a leading role. But what is one of her main concerns as a character? She can't have children. So she does have a motherly-adjacent struggle. At least Adam accompanies her in this story thread and it isn't just a struggle Barbara alone is facing; both of them are pretty balanced as far as their struggles go in "Beetlejuice". (I could have also used Delia as an example here, but she isn't exactly the main character as Barbara was in "Beetlejuice". That said, she is both a mother and wife.)

I'm pretty new to the Beetlejuice fandom (as in I was a fan who watched the movie a few times a year around Halloween, but never actually interacted with fandom or analyzed anything, until I watched BJBJ and became totally obsessed), and as a relatively new fan who has been here since September 2024, I'm not sure what the expectations around Lydia's future were throughout the years in the fandom. But, I'm positive a lot of fans never considered Lydia would choose to get married and to a pretty regular guy at that at some point and become a mother. I'm sure many fans shared Winona's idea of older Lydia being a goth spinster, living a pretty unconventional, but happy life, just doing her thing. She might have gone into photography and kept interacting with the dead and being her goth, "strange and unusual" self.

So it must have been pretty shocking to see that older Lydia is not only a struggling mother, but she is also anxiety-ridden and in an abusive relationship with some normie guy.

Lydia at least has something that separates her identity as an individual from her identity as a mother, in her show, but it's made clear that getting into making the show was considered by her as "selling out", a sentiment that came up in her conversation with Delia. I wish they would have gone into that a little bit more, because it's not entirely clear how Lydia felt about the show exactly and what her reasons were to do it in the first place. Lydia's interest in photography from the first film, and subsequently from the animated show as well (meaning this was an inherent and very characteristic part of her), is non-existent in the sequel.

While it's understandable that "life happens" and people just change over time, and a life of seeing and interacting with all sorts of ghosts must have taken a toll on her, Lydia's characterization was considerably far from the person she used to be, and it feels like a lot of it had to do with her mother role.

I know a lot of fans also appreciate this, too, don't get me wrong; Lydia as she is now is relatable to many women's experience, but what I'm getting at is that a choice was made to write older Lydia like this, and that choice is the same treatment that's given to too many older female characters in the media. They chose to make her a struggling mother, is the point I'm trying to make.

Her character has also become more reactionary; she isn't exactly in control about anything. Even making her show appears to be a reactive decision, too, rather than something she did because she genuinely wanted to. She's even taking medications to get through the day when she starts seeing ghosts (Nadja disappears after Lydia takes the pills, so one can assume she takes these pills to quiet down her psychic abilities and stop seeing ghosts; Rory's comment in the bathroom also supports this).

Lydia is indeed, overall, unhappy, and she has been for a long time. Not saying this is a bad thing; stories need conflict, and it would have been strange if she was living her best life at the start of the film. After Charles funeral we confirm that she wasn't exactly happy when Richard was around, either ("our relationship was over long before the accident", strange thing to say to Astrid when she's questioning her about why she cannot see her father). Things seemed to have ended amicably between them, but it looks like Lydia was not happy in that relationship by its end.

Lydia only seems to take control when her daughter is in danger, so that which spurs her into action is more linked to her mother persona over any other conflict that's more directly linked to her as an individual. If it wasn't for Betelgeuse's intervention, she might have even ended up marrying Rory, who, not only did she not love, he was also using her and being emotionally manipulative and abusive.

I know Lydia at some point became affected by seeing ghosts every other day through her life, as evidenced by the pills, but (and this is something I talked about before here) the way they ended the previous film, there was nothing to indicate that Lydia was in a downward spiral or that seeing strange things and dead people affected her negatively in any strong, life-altering way (unless Lydia was pretending to like the dark stuff before, and by the end she's more herself and admits to not like the creepy stuff; she does reject dissecting the frog in her science class, but then again, she asks the Maitlands to levitate her and pretty much do a ghostly possession in the house for the "Jump in the line" scene. But I digress. Lydia's character arc in the first film is an analysis for another post).

Moving on, Lydia's brief experience with Betelgeuse in the first film also does not justify her current emotional state for the reasons stated above and in that post I linked. Losing Richard also doesn't seem to be enough of a reason to have created the emotional issues Lydia is struggling deeply with in BJBJ, and it does seem that the movie pointed at that, but it was poorly done, when Lydia told Astrid she didn't have a relationship with him long before he passed away; she also didn't have a strong reaction to seeing Richard in the afterlife.

Whatever happened to Lydia that led her to this current state wasn't properly explored, is what I'm getting at, because the film decided to focus her character struggles mostly on her relationship with her daughter, over her own personal conflicts as a separate individual. Lydia as the suffering mom, struggling to connect with her daughter was the focus of her arc. Did we ever get to know exactly why she was willing to marry Rory despite clearly not loving him? (she even seemed disgusted by him kissing her and when he tried to kiss her lol).

Was it because she thought he was her only chance at being happy again? Was it because she thought she needed to be married for Astrid, to rebuild their family? Lydia's actions were entirely steered by Rory; he emotionally manipulated her so much, he made her believe she had feelings for him and start a relationship with him, even. Maybe it was him, the one who convinced her to start the show in the first place, to take advantage of her psychic abilities (which he totally believed to be bullshit, anyway, but he thought he could use her delusions/fake claims to attract fame and money), he was her producer, after all. (Actually I think it was him who convinced her?? Was she making her show before meeting him? Lol I totally forgot this bit. Fill me in because I've only watched the movie twice.)

By the end of the film, ironically, Lydia takes more control for herself when she sends Betelgeuse away (and I say "ironically" because, without Betelgeuse she would still be stuck in the same toxic situation she was with Rory. In fact, things would have gotten much worse as Rory would have gotten away with his plan. She also had no issues handling Betelgeuse during all scenes they had together; she would even raise her voice at him and act exasperated with his behavior--that is not typically how a person who is terrified or traumatized by someone acts around them, but ok...), and she makes a choice to be more focused in her life, assuming she did quit her job, which is up for debate, depending on when the dream sequence started.

Without Betelgeuse, Lydia would be stuck in a terrible relationship, where her life would have been ruined, and she would have also lost her daughter on Halloween night when Jeremy used her to get his life back. So it's really strange a choice (and poorly executed, again) to have Lydia's character resolution be sending Betelgeuse away like she's finally confronting some deep-rooted fear or trauma, when her character really wasn't explored individually all throughout the movie to showcase in what way exactly did her brief interactions with Betelgeuse over 30 years ago might have crumbled her emotional stability to that degree. The movie isn't clear if her depression and anxiety are related to losing Richard and therefore that's what she needs to heal from; or if it's more related to her past trauma around Betelgeuse, and then, that's what she needed to heal from.

There really should have been more of a focus on her as an individual apart from her struggles as Astrid's mother for her character to really have a good payoff at the end. And truly, if facing Betelgeuse was going to "fix her", then she's back at square one when he shows up on her bed at the end. Lydia's character and story are incomplete. More reasons why we need a BJ3.

What's truly going to heal Lydia is her finding herself again, as just Lydia; not the mother or the TV presenter. And she must get there herself, not have it all fixed for her by Betelgeuse yet again or another external force. She has to make a choice for herself. They need to show her picking up her camera again, and yes, enjoying the "strange and unusual". She needs to embrace her otherness and be herself again.

(And if she doesn't want to be alone... she shouldn't go after a guy like Rory or a normie. She needs another weirdo like Richard who loved scary movies, or, ahem, Betelgeuse, who has already proved he loves her more than any normie ever could.)

I can't stress enough how disappointing it is that mature women are mostly presented as moms or wives or even grandmas, without dreams and motivations of their own that are entirely separate from their (societal) roles. Mature men can be out there living adventures and doing all sorts of things, like James Bond for example. Meanwhile women are either divorced, mothers, wives, grandmas, aunts, etc and these roles are a huge part of what defines them as characters. And if it doesn't define them, they still are moms, wives, ex-wives, or grandmas. It's rare to see a single older lady doing her thing and being just a character and like, falling in love and going through a satisfying arc that has nothing to do with having kids, or dealing with estranged kids, etc. At least Delia was out there doing her thing in BJBJ; she was doing what she loved, while still being a mother and a grandmother, and a loving wife/widow to Charles. She was a realized character. And that's what I want to see, you know? I don't mind seeing an older female character who is married with kids (and even grandkids!), as long as she is also a fully realized individual when her character arc is wrapped up at the end.

If Lydia being behind the camera instead of in front of it in BJBJ is representative of her feeling lost in life, and her being in a toxic relationship and almost saying yes to someone she doesn't love or even remotely fit in with, then healed Lydia should be behind the camera again in BJ3, and saying yes to someone she does love and fits in with by the end.

I definitely want to see a Lydia who is more than Astrid's mom in BJ3; a Lydia who isn't easily manipulated and stepped on, and who has a firm grasp on who she is and a love for who she is. Yeah, I totally want her to end up with Betelegeuse (edit: And I am writing a post about why they are perfectly matched to complete each other's character arcs), but I also want to see her fully realized outside of the mother and (potential) wife roles.

[arolesbianism]

Oh god is that a comicfrin drawing where they have whimsy quick someone throw that guy into a decades long timeloop

[willyhoos]

I MADE THE STRAWBERRY🍓 MACARONS, HE BROUGHT THE CHERRY🍒 SYRUP.

[keferon]

Hi! Probably a question that's been asked before, so I'm sorry in advance: what comics would you personally recommend to someone terrified of mischaracterizing Prowl?

Terrified? Ahmm. Certainly not IDW 2005 haha. He has like five different personalities there and writers are switching between them with no explanation

So you'd be doomed to misharecterise him because canon already does that

Sadly I don't know much about other tf comics outside of IDW 2005. If you're terrified of writing him wrong the best thing I can really recommend is looking at cartoon versions of him. They tend to be much more consistent.

[deoidesign]

Doing master studies the only way I know how: Stealing them and making them my guys.

(Barberini Faun)

(The Fallen Angel - Alexandre Cabanel)

(Covent Garden - William Bruce Ellis Rankin)

[blueskittlesart]

*sigh* thoughts on Nintendo's botw/totk timeline shenanigans and tomfoolery?

tbh. my maybe-unpopular opinion is that the timeline is only important when a game's place on the timeline seriously informs the way their narrative progresses. the problem is that before botw we almost NEVER got games where it didn't matter. it matters for skyward sword because it's the beginning, and it matters for tp/ww/alttp (and their respective sequels) because the choices the hero of time makes explicitly inform the narrative of those games in one way or another. it matters which timeline we're in for those games because these cycles we're seeing are close enough to oot's cycle that they're still feeling the effects of his choices. botw, however, takes place at minimum 10 thousand years after oot, so its place on the timeline actually functionally means nothing. botw is completely divorced from the hero of time & his story, so what he does is a nonissue in the context of botw link and zelda's story. thus, which timeline botw happens in is a nonissue. honestly I kind of liked the idea that it happened in all of them. i think there's a cool idea of inevitability that can be played with there. but the point is that the timeline exists to enhance and fill in the lore of games that need it, and botw/totk don't really need it because the devs finally realized they could make a game without the hero of time in it.

[nenoname]

stan twins the canon cptsd brothers i will always think about all your unaddressed issues that would make perfect plot fuel for your spinoff

and also the whole 'stan getting that poem by bill via a website which contrasts with bill getting one from the axolotl via a website' foreshadowing thing

like idk i would love something like su future but like more optimistic, aka not an accumulated breakdown that has to be mostly resolved off screen at the end :/// but something thats being kinda addressed throughout? (although would love to see one of them turn into a monster thats always fun lol)

stan having severe issues from his dad and those years of being homeless that we keep on getting more info on but never really getting confronted on (the drifter catalogue and tijuana incident...), him being completely alone for like twenty years when running the shack before soos comes along to the point that 1998 is noted as his low point, and him not really learning about bill+what he did to ford until ages after he killed him if he ever did get the full context

while i think amnesia and everyone seeing him as a hero actually helped with stan's 'i'm a worse version of my brother' thing its still a lingering issue too and we now got him being insecure over his own hands

ford being immediately thrown from 'being tortured by bill' to 'being stuck in the multiverse and being chased by bounty hunters constantly', him fully expecting himself to die when destroying bill, and him only now being safe for the first time in 30 years ....relatively safe, he's still in constant danger because of course he is

idk in the end the series wants them to be happy and they deserve it, its why i wasn't too worried about the book being like 'ooh bill is back!! and the book is haunting ford' thing cos i knew they'll be ok

[turtleblogatlast]

Things I make for myself when insomnia kicks in

Just a chart about what I wanna change up and keep consistent in my art - I mainly wanna draw Raph with a tail because he deserves one, it fits too well. Donnie gets a long tail too because I didn’t realize how dino-like he looks until I gave him one, and now it’s a must for me haha.

[northern-passage]

a little update.. what i'm working on/prologue changes so far:

no prologue! it’s chapter 1 now

removed the option to leave clementine behind. you have to take them with you :3c

removed height options (sorry!)

in general, edited the cc to flow better

combat preferences have been adjusted-- all still the same but i've made it more obvious how each specialty works mechanically which will hopefully make fights more intuitive to win (or lose, if you want)

genderlocked the sibling. officially a Sister

edited a LOT of dialogue; hopefully it's an improvement and feels more natural

restructured the wraith fight so that it's consistent with the fight in blackwater. with the changes made to the combat preferences this should make the combat system overall cohesive now <- i'm still working on this currently but i am HOPING to finish it by the end of this month.

i have pretty much rewritten the entire prologue. wasn't my plan at the start but here we are... so things are quite different. but also the same. i also streamlined a lot of the choices & branches and cut/combined ones that i felt were just excessive.

i plan to update once i've finished making & importing these changes, and i will probably limit the demo to chapter 1 (previously the prologue) until i get through and edit chapter 2 (previously chapter 1) because i really don't want to have the demo be inconsistent for however long it takes me to get through the next edits. hopefully this will not take that long, and then i'll put chapter 2 & and part 1/what's already been published of chapter 3 back up. and then!!! i will move on to finishing chapter 3.

i know this probably isn't the update you all were hoping for but i'm excited for the next steps with tnp :-)

[tunafishy333]

Let's go baby! It's Renthesnail!

What he looks like without his sunglasses, also a better view of the ones on his shell

How I made him:

Refer to this post for the base snail pattern

Additional Materials:

Use blue yarn instead of green for his eyes (everything else is the same as the base snail pattern) Red felt Black foam sticker sheet

How to Embroider Rensnail's Beard:

Between round 14 and 15, pause to sew Rensnail's beard. I'm not the most knowledgeable about embroidery, but this is how I did it:

First, make backstitches between rows 9 and 10, rows 10 and 11, and rows 11 and 12. Double them over to make them thicker. The first row is a single backstitch in the center, 2 stitches wide. The second row has TWO backstitches on either side of the first row, 2 stitches wide. The last row is a single long backstitch, 6 stitches wide. Here's a visual diagram:

What it should look like

Then, I inserted my needle vertically under the brown yarn and between the rows at the corners to make a vertical line and connect the horizontal stitches.

Hopefully, the pics help but I think it may take some trial and error. I made the pattern and even I was confused my second time making him...

Accessories & Options:

The shell pattern is the same. Another option is to make it out of red to match the design on the official sticker. I think that would be cute too.

I just made the strip of red out of felt and hot-glued it on. His sunglasses are made out of foam sticker sheets, which I didn't need to glue because they already had adhesives on the back.

Additionally, I made an extra pair of sunglasses with arms that he can wear on his face

Extra - Rejected RentheBeards:

In that last pic, i got so annoyed at backpulling the yarn that I just decided to cut it, resulting in this insanity lmao

[quirkle2]

space/saturn imagery ritsu i love you

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

--

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

[energeticpoltergeist]

FE Secret Santa (7/10)

Alear(past) for @bluescreenl

edit: forgot to at @feshippingpolls

[one-and-a-half-yikes]

Another Day, Another Fanny Chapter...

Well that sure was fucking something huh? I promised I'd at least start talking about IM chapters on here instead of keeping it strictly to the discord server so here I am. Though most of this I already said, I don't mind going over it again, since I feel like I can better organize my thoughts on this.

Also there's no word limit, which is also great.

MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 348: RABBIT REFLECTIONS

So to start, let's rip the bandaid off and just say that everything Fanny said to Vicious in this chapter was bullshit.

At this point in the story with how Fanny has been acting around Cuphead I hope I don't need to specify how Fanny is in love with Cuphead when there's just too much evidence to support it. She kissed him because she wanted to kiss him, not because she was trying to see what kind of lowdown man he was. If Fanny had truly believed that, she would have confronted him about it long ago, but she didn't and we know why. And on some level, I think she knows why, too.

I think it's much easier for a reader to imagine this chapter as a conversation Fanny is having with her conscious. Saying something like this:

Is not her responding to Vicious but to her own thoughts that weigh on her. That kiss has been on her mind for about a week. And her reasoning behind it has changed even moreso. This is her settling on a final conclusion. This is her convincing herself of her own convictions. Of her worldview. That what she did was right, that she didn't ruin something good because it was never good to begin with. So that she doesn't have to confront that ugly realization in the pit of her stomach.

That Cuphead doesn't love her the way she loves him.

That last part specifically. Let's look back at the screenshot yeah?

-"She could almost see Oswald's glare. It was all the same dance. A carousel of pain and betrayal, around and around."

It's a strange thing, isn't it? To bring up Oswald. To equate Oswald to her current situation with Cuphead. Because that is essentially what she's doing, isn't it? It may seem odd, but I do have a reason for why she's thinking that.

Rejection.

Oswald broke up with her and moved on with his life, and Cuphead literally ran from her. Literally the only thing they have in common here, is the fact that they rejected her. But there's another thing too.

"No, she shouldn’t complain. She was lucky she’d found a man with a decent job. Little fights like these weren’t going to end it all for them. Besides, it wasn’t like marriage was about love and all that stardust. She had tried that avenue, and it had ended in heartbreak. Definitely not worth it. Dumb rabbit." (Chapter 74)

The bold is obviously about Oswald. Now compare that to now. Do you see what I mean? She fell in love again, and she got hurt in the process. Nevermind that in both these scenarios the men were also hurt. Especially Cuphead who trusted her and from his perspective, probably assumed she planned on using him for her own needs. Just like Meg. Just like Natasha. And in that way it's very interesting the wording she's using to describe Cuphead, and also Oswald for that matter, rejecting her.

Pain and betrayal. Very edgy, it's giving listening to that one slowed down piano version of Numb that everybody made fandom AMVs to back in the 2000s.

But seriously, why those words? It's a betrayal that Cuphead wasn't interested in the same way she is? Painful sure, that's kind of how rejection works, but betrayal really?

Or.

Is it a betrayal to herself? Thinking of certain aspects of this chapter as Fanny talking to her conscious would definitely lead me to believe that that's partially what it is. She'd already tried the avenue of love twice and it's ended poorly for her, so why did she do it again when she said she wouldn't. Why now, and why with someone like...like him? Like Cuphead? It's absurd in her head. It's something she can't make sense of. Doesn't want to make sense of it either.

So the betrayal could be referring to herself. But, I also think it could be something else, too. But for me to talk about that I have to talk about Oswald and Fanny's relationship because even after a disastrous break up they just can't stay away from each other~

So even though we don't have a lot of context for their relationship, I'm going to go off on a hypothetical that the "betrayal" in regards to Oz is that he offered Fanny (either literally or just like, the idea of the relationship with him gave her that impression) a way out of the dark. From chapter 327 that her home life wasn't great, and she doesn't seem to have any high opinion of her parents at all. Even the mere suggestion of going back home after her break up with Oswald seemed like a worse fate to Fanny than being homeless.

Oswald betrayed her because he was her first love, and also because she was supposed to be living the good life with him. They were supposed to be together forever, but then he broke up with her and next thing Fanny's hearing he's got a successful career and a beautiful wife and kids. She left everything behind for this man only for it to turn out like this. In some ways I can kind of understand what she means. But then she applies this to Cuphead and it's a bit stranger.

Because Cuphead never did anything other than offer her friendship and nothing more. Of course, at the beginning, Cuphead did have a crush on her, but by the end of the Wonderful Winter book he's basically over it. But then I think back to that book specifically, and I think about their interactions throughout and wonder if the betrayal is because Fanny misconstrued everything about their relationship because of how he'd previously acted. Is it the case, that Fanny thought they were both in the same boat, using each other as a form of escapism. She even calls Cuphead out for this at one point and makes an observation about it. Did she think it was the same for him as it was for her? That the feelings were mutual?

And, okay I actually can't blame her for that part. Look, no matter how you slice it, Fanny and Cuphead were just straight up flirting with each other in the early chapters. Not to mention Cuphead asking to take Fanny out to dinner? The Christmas group date? The aftermath?

At the beginning, there may have been mutual feelings of attraction sure but things have changed since then. And even though Cuphead put aside his feelings for her for good, if Fanny had shown any form of reciprocity then maybe things could have changed, but she didn't. But even still it doesn't really explain how Cup could have betrayed her. It stumps me and I've had a good nap to think it through and it's still confusing.

[headfullof-ideas]

FINALLY finished Finn and Anita’s set of Incorrect Quotes! It took forever, but I finally finished them, which means not only can I at last share them, but also get started on those reference sheets I’ve been dying to get to!

[rigelmejo]

Something that always annoys me is the idea only 1 language learning method works. Which is not true. While it may be possible that, for a particular individual, only a few out of many study methods may work well enough for That Individual to make progress and stay motivated... that doesn't mean all the other study methods won't work for anyone else out there, or that those few methods will work for every other given person.

Obviously if you've been studying a while, then you already figured out what kinds of things work for you and don't. If you're a beginner, just wading into studying?

I would suggest you simply look for study methods that: 1. Teach you new things regularly, 2. Review and practice things you've learned, 3. Include studying things you need for your particular goals (for example if your goal is to read X book then the study materials at some point should involve reading practice and some words the book contains, if your goal is to talk about Y then the study materials should include some information about pronunciation and words you'll need to be able to say).

As you can imagine, a TON of study materials will meet these requirements. And you can study a given skill in a LOT of ways.

(Reading is my focus lol so just for reading, a beginner might: do vocabulary study with lists or conversations with native speakers or watching shows and looking words up or listening to dialogues with a transcript like in a textbook or graded readers or a picture book with word labels in the target language or a video game with labelled objects in target language, all of those things as long as your vocabulary is improving or reading practice is happening would help you make progress). So to improve reading skill as a beginner: you could study with a textbook, a podcast with transcript, a classroom or tutor with words written down in target language (like TPRS), a video game, a TV show and a translate app on your phone, a friend you talk with (who either writes words down or you look up words you hear with a translate app), a friend you text with, srs flashcards like anki (provided there's text) etc. As long as there's new words, and/or you're practicing reading, the study method may work. If it works will come down to if you can stay motivated doing it regularly, and make sure you regularly learn some new things and review/practice things you've already studied.

So consider those things when you see people selling a study method as a product (especially when it's costing you money). Consider if it teaches you NEW things, and are those new things related to your goals, and how MUCH new stuff will it teach you before you finish it? Consider if it provides review or practice, or if you can use it's materials to review on your own making up your own method, or if you'll need to do separate review/practice.

So examples:

LingQ. Can it teach you many new words? Yes, thousands, since you can import any texts you want when you get done with their provided material (I have no idea how much their beginner material covers though in terms of words... I would hope 1000-3000 words but that can be researched). Is your goal reading? It's suited to reading, so you will practice and review often with it. Cost? I think it was $12 a month when I last had it, and the price may have increased. Is it worth it? Depends on a learner's needs. I found it was wasting my money, so I chose to use free tools like Pleco and Readibu apps - since those apps are suited for Chinese learners and have better translations, Pleco has better paid graded reader material if I was going to spend money, and both Pleco and Readibu let me import texts so I can learn thousands of new words just like LingQ but free. Now that I'm not a beginner, I often use Microsoft Edge to read chinese... since I can still click-translate words easily (all my web browsers have that tool free), and Edge's TTS voice is helpful for pronunciation and sounds quite good. I read webnovels online so Edge works well. But it's translations aren't as good as Pleco or Readibu, so if I still needed translations more I would use them. So... is LingQ a good study method? Its certainly a study method marketed to buy. Well... the method is suited to improving reading skill, at least. It costs money, which is a negative, but it does offer a lot. However: everything it does regarding reading can be done free with other apps or sites or web browsers on their own. So if paying money motivates you to read... sure. LingQ does have a few word tracking features a learner may find worth the money, keeping in mind the actual read-to-learn method can be done free without lingq. (Also... while LingQ is a valid option for improving reading, if the learners goal is speaking then it would be important to think of what study activities the learner will do OUTSIDE of LingQ to improve speaking... because I've seen how LingQ is marketed as "how to learn a language" but it's only focused on some skills. It has vocabulary and grammar in some sense, since you'll read a lot and encounter new words and structures. But it doesnt have speaking or writing practice at least last time I was on it. Those activities would need to be worked on, on your own).

You can do that kind of cost/benefit contemplating with any study method material you see being sold. Amother example: there's a beginner Mandarin course called Mandarin Blueprint. It teaches like 800 words. Thats all. It may be worthwhile for a beginner... who still needs to learn 800 common words. But if you already know a few hundred words, the benefit of the course is less, you'll need to find a new material to teach you more new stuff soon. And the price was like a few hundred for the course... which for me personally was too much to spend, when I had already learned 800 hanzi from a book that cost me 12 dollars and 2000 words from a free user made memrise deck. The course claimed to get a person speaking, competent, but anyone not a beginner would say speaking basically with 800 words is nowhere near the level of working in Chinese or just doing a lot of daily life stuff, or reading/listening to media. (Although for the motivated beginner if you're learning 800 words on your own like I was, its definitely close to the point of jumping to learn more words and start reading kids and teenager books, and watching easier shows if you're willing to look new words up). So to me... Mandarin Blueprint felt like overselling some basic beginner materials. (Again when I know several other things that teach beginner stuff either more in depth so HSK test prep classes, and college courses, or that teach beginner stuff to the same depth as Mandarin Blueprint but free).

Some study materials aren't going to act like they teach everything. I've seen chinese courses just for learning to speak tones better and general pronunciation - probably worthwhile if your goal is to improve speaking and a teacher could help improve the issues your having. But a learner needs to be aware for that course that they'll need to study vocabulary on their own, its JUST a pronunciation improvement course.