first thank you for compiling all those posts, it was fascinating to read through especially since i knew there had to be depth to mara and uldren as characters to inform their decisions/the way the lore plays out. i knew mara to be an incredibly complex character, though i will admit i avoid reading much about her because the way she is presented in game is uncomfortable to say the least. (mostly personal feelings/experiences, but probably partially intentionally as well) regardless, a couple questions. number one would be your thoughts on this well intentioned manipulation from mara. though the answer might be in her current character development, i wonder why its more acceptable to strip agency when its 'for their own good'. i do think thats pretty integral to mara, her driving things through her own admittedly vast insights towards the greater good, and while theres an interesting debate to be had on the morality of it, youre right to point out that the morality sort of is a moot point when she is staring down the metaphorical barrel of a gun. im simultaneously fascinated to see where her development goes while not wanting to forgive the shortcomings of her actions. i acknowledge shes done and continues to do the best she can but ugh. why has it taken so long? (i mean, obviously because she hasnt had a catalyst to spur her development like she does now, but well) i do feel for her which is honestly surprising considering i really didnt before i sent that first ask. but anyway, my second question. savathun being the one to deliver uldrens memories to crow... truth be told, i assumed it to be as neutral a way as anything, as it seemed she just... unlocked the memories from his/uldrens perspective a la deepsight/darkness memory shenanigans rather than trying to spin it one way or another. probably naive of me considering its literally savathun, and its more likely than not to have been an intentional attempt to harm him, but i dunno. something about cutting to heal. lancing a wound to drain the rot. again, probably naive, but i also have in the back of my mind the lore where savathun is feeling something (positive i presume, affection, nostalgia? who knows) when at the bonfire with crow and the guardian. if i remember right sav draws connections to her siblings, and is reeling against some uninvited feelings this conjures. makes me wonder how much she is or isnt sympathising with crow (and on that note, osiris. her lines during the glykon exploration, about the folly of her youth, blends really close to osiris. almost like she wasnt exactly lying directly, but through omission of context). she says it herself that she feels sympathy for crow, but again. savathun. narratively i think it was important things played out this way, but had they chosen to write uldren/crows story to follow the plans mara laid out, are we 100% sure that the two of them wouldntve just fallen into the same pitfalls as before, with crow trying to impress, and mara manipulating 'for his own good'? do you think she could have succeeded in achieving the crow we see now after severance without all the drama? should she even have had to? maybe it was good for her not to have to undertake the same role she always had with uldren, being a star for him to follow. gah, i have to sleep, but man do i have a lot of thoughts. anyway, thanks again for the first response! i have worms in my brain.
You're welcome!
For the first question, about how Mara wanted to manipulate/shape Uldren into something else: I don't think it was good ultimately. Mara even admits that it wasn't. At first she's only talking about how it's because she failed, but later she becomes much more open about how much the idea sucked no matter what (especially after she talks more to Ikora and Crow in particular, but also after all the stresses of dealing with Savathun). Uldren was always reckless, even as a human and she hated it because she was basically tasked with raising him and she had her own issues. She wanted so badly to make him different, but it failed and she made it worse. It took her time to realise that the idea itself was flawed from the start. Seeing as she accepted Crow and her responsibilities over Uldren's fate, she definitely changed her tune. We probably won't get a full explicit apology from her, but then again, that's between her and Crow.
Second question about Savathun and Crow's memories: the biggest problem with Savathun doing it was that we have no clue what she did to him and how she did it so we couldn't intervene to help him. Did she give him everything? Only the bad stuff? Only stuff about Uldren after he got corrupted? It was also... a lot to dump on a person at once. Uldren lived for thousands of years and there were some truly gruesome memories in there, especially post Black Garden. It could've seriously hurt Crow to get him exposed for example to the memory of the Black Heart. It's also the emotional impact of finding out that every single person you trusted lied to you in the worst way. Like, YW participated in killing Uldren and Crow trusted us as a friend. And then he got a memory of being at the other end of our gun.
Savathun definitely had some legitimate feelings for Crow however. She's a very complex character as well and the feelings she experienced while watching YW and Crow were genuine. She also admitted that she has a soft spot for "exiles." She latched onto Crow and Osiris, but also previously she also gave a safe haven of sorts to her nephew, Nokris, who was exiled for heresy. She herself was also exiled. I would say those feelings were definitely as genuine as possible when it comes to Savathun. However, the way she dumped Uldren's memories on Crow was still traumatic and ultimately a bad way to deal with such a sensitive situation.
As for the third what-if scenario: I genuinely have no clue. Had Mara's original plans worked out perfectly in every detail... Who knows. If Uldren never went to the Black Garden and never got corrupted and Mara never died to Oryx and... There are too many variables. I personally think it wouldn't have been as compelling as a story. The Sov siblings are incredibly well written characters who have a lot of complexity and a lot to offer to the storytelling as they are now. I honestly wouldn't want it any other way. Their story is full of tragedy, but also change and hope, as it is with Destiny.
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hellO?? NOT Momoi bringing out the fkin TRAIN on MJ’s blue a$$
HELLO???
AND HE CONSECUTIVELY USES PATRANGER AND LUPINRANGER?????
Well fk why don’t you just have them say “I love you” to each other instead 💀💀💀
(ALSO – WHAT IS THIS TITLE??? “Miho, have a secret?!”)
So like the throuple shxt is really REALLY happening next episode huh,,,,
Why does Inuzuka look like he’s popped out his eyeliner?
Damn >:)))
WELL
WHAT IS THIS????
MOMOI AND MJ??? BURNING BUILDING??? SAVING PPL??????
WHAT????
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