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itsclydebitches · 3 years

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The Bad Batch: A Crosshair Analysis

Hello, Star Wars fandom! I have just completed watching—and loving—The Bad Batch, which you know means I now need to dump all my thoughts about the first season into the tumblr void. Specifically, thoughts on the complicated drama that is Crosshair. I have no doubt that the majority of what I’m about to say will be old news to anyone who watched the show when it came out (I’m slow...), but I’m writing it all out anyway. Largely for my own sanity enjoyment :D

I want to preface all of this by saying that the above is not an exaggeration. I love the show and I love the entire cast. My enjoyment in each of the characters is directly connected to my enjoyment of the season as a whole, which I say because I’m about to get pretty critical towards some of the characters’ choices and, to a lesser extent, the writing choices that surround those. Does this mean I secretly hate The Bad Batch? Quite the opposite. I’m invested, which is presumably just what Filoni wants. I’m just hoping that investment pays off.

But enough of the disclaimers. Let’s start with the matter of the inhibitor chip. I’ve seen fans take some pretty hard stances on both sides: Crosshair is completely innocent because he’s definitely been under the chip’s control this whole time, no matter what he might say. Crosshair is completely guilty because he said the chip was removed a long time ago and he chose to do all this, no moral wiggle room allowed. However, the reality is that we don’t know enough to make a clear call either way. The audience, simply put, does not have all the necessary information. What we have instead is a couple of facts combined with claims that may or may not be reliable. Let’s lay them out:

Crosshair was definitely under the chip’s control at the start of the series.

He was able to resist it to a certain extent, resulting in a pressure to obey orders coupled with a primary loyalty to his squad. See: telling Hunter to follow the Empire’s commands—which includes killing kid Padawans—but not turning his team in as traitors when they did not. It’s an in-between space.

Crosshair’s chip was then amplified to an unknown extent. I’m never going to claim I’m a Star Wars aficionado—I’m a casual fan, friends. Please don’t yell at me over obscure lore lol—but within TBB’s canon, no one else is undergoing that experimentation. The effects of this are entirely unknown, which includes Crosshair’s free will, or lack thereof.

Crosshair then becomes a clear tool of the Empire, hunting down innocents, killing on a whim, the whole, evil shebang.

In “Reunion” he’s caught by the engine and suffers severe burns to his face. One leaves a scar that covers precisely the place where the chip would have been extracted.

Removing the chip leaves its own scar behind. If Crosshair’s was removed, we can’t see that scar due to the burn.

After these events Crosshair seems to mellow a bit. He does horrible things under the Empire’s orders—like shooting the senator—but is still loyal to his squad—killing his non-clone teammates to give TBB a chance, saving AZ and Omega, etc.

Crosshair claims that his chip has already been removed. However, Crosshair is arguably an unreliable source if he’s been lied to or if the chip is still there, encouraging him to manipulate the team.

Crosshair claims it was removed a long time ago, which is incredibly imprecise. As we can see from just some of the events listed above, precisely when the chip came out—if it came out—makes a huge difference.

Hunter realizes this and presses for clarification, but Crosshair dodges giving it. Again, a legitimate belief that it doesn’t matter, or evidence that he can’t say because something else is going on? We don’t know.

Hunter checks Crosshair’s head and finds the burn scar which proves… nothing. As stated above, they wouldn’t be able to see the surgery scar one way or another: its existence or its absence. It’s useless data, as Tech might say. I’ve seen a few fans claim that Hunter was also feeling for the chip with his enhanced senses, but 1. I didn’t catch any evidence of that in the scene and 2. Even if we assume Hunter did that anyway, the chips are notoriously hard to spot. Fives and AZ couldn’t find the chip at first when examining Tup. Ahsoka had to use the force to find it in Rex. TBB themselves couldn’t find it at first in Wrecker. If machinery consistently fails to find the chip on the first couple of tries—it’s meant to be a hidden implant, after all—why would we believe Hunter’s senses could pick it up instantly? Maybe he missed it, or maybe it wasn’t there at all.

Crosshair appears to be struggling with a headache in the finale, just as he was at the beginning of the season and just like Wrecker was for the first half.

The point of listing all this out is to emphasize how ambiguous this whole situation is. I don’t want to use this post to argue one way or another about whether Crosshair’s chip is really out. I have my preferred theory (the chip’s still in, but only partially functional), but at the end of the day none of this is conclusive. The writing takes us in what I hope is deliberate circles. Crosshair says the chip is out? Crosshair is not a reliable source of information until we know if the chip is out. What other evidence is there that the chip is gone? A scar? We can’t see if there’s a scar. Hunter’s abilities? He only checked once for a canonically hard to find implant—if he actually checked at all. And why would the Empire want the chip out? Well, maybe it has to do with that push towards willing soldiers, but if that were the case, why leave Crosshair behind and have the “clones die together”? By that point he was one of the most willing, chip or not. Did they have to take it out because of the engine accident? Pure speculation. We just don’t know and THAT is the point I want to make.

Because it means the rest of the Bad Batch didn’t know either.

The core issue I have here is not whether the chip is in or out, or even how long it may have been in if it is out now. The issue is that TBB spent 99% of the first season believing that Crosshair was under the chip’s influence… and they didn’t try to do anything about that. They abandoned him. They left a man behind. Does this make them all horrible monsters? Of course not! This shit is complicated as hell, but I do think they made a very large mistake and that Crosshair has every right to be furious about it.

“But, Clyde, they couldn’t have gone back. It was too dangerous! Hunter had a duty to his whole team, not just Crosshair.” True enough and I’d buy this argument 100% if Hunter hadn’t spent the entire season throwing his team into dangerous, seemingly impossible situations to save other people. Crosshair became the exception, not a hard rule of something they had to avoid. They went back to Kamino for Omega, a kid they’d only had one lunch with, despite knowing how dangerous the Empire was. They went into the heart of an occupied planet to rescue not just a stranger, but one belonging to the Separatist government. They helped Sid when she asked and there was plenty of compassion for the criminal trying to take her place. Most significantly, there wasn’t the slightest hesitation to go rescue Hunter when he was under the Empire’s control, in precisely the same place. Every explanation I’ve seen fans come up with—Kamino is too fortified, they don’t know where Crosshair is, they can’t risk Omega being captured, etc.—also holds true for Hunter, yet there wasn’t a second of doubt about needing to at least try to help him. And his rescue was arguably far more dangerous given that TBB knew they were walking into a trap. Going after Crosshair would have at least had some element of surprise.

I think the problem with these justifications is most easily seen in “Rescue on Ryloth” and, later, “War-Mantle.” In the former, we do watch Hunter decide that going on a rescue mission is too much of a risk, only for Omega to talk him into considering it.

Hunter: “It’s a big galaxy. We can’t put ourselves on the line every time someone’s in trouble.”

Omega: “Why not? Isn’t that what soldiers do?”

Hunter: “It’s not worth the risk.”

Omega: “She’s trying to save her family, Hunter. I’d do the same for you.”

The arguments that sway him are ‘Soldiers should help people’ and ‘Soldiers should specifically help their family.’ So… what does that say about their feelings for Crosshair? They’re willing to put themselves on the line for the parents of a girl they met once at a drop site, but not their own brother? That’s the message the writing sends. “But, Clyde, the difference is that they had an advantage here. Hera’s knowledge of her home planet tipped the odds in their favor.” Yeah… and Crosshair is stationed on TBB’s home planet. Even more than them collectively having the same knowledge that Hera does, “Return to Kamino” reveals that Omega always had additional, insider knowledge of the base: she has access to a secret landing pad and the tunnels leading up into the city. That knowledge was given and used the second Hunter’s freedom was on the line, but it never once came up to use for Crosshair’s benefit.

“War-Mantle’s” mission puts this problem in even sharper relief. Another claim I’ve seen a lot is that TBB only took risky rescue missions because they needed to be paid. The guys have got to eat after all. Yet Tech makes it clear that going after Gregor will lose them money. They’re meant to be on a mission for Sid and deviating for that won’t result in a payment. He explicitly says that if they decide to do this, they won’t eat. They do it anyway. No money, no intel, a huge risk “on a clone we don’t even know.” But that’s not what’s important, the show says. All that matters is that a brother is in trouble. This time it’s Echo pushing that message instead of Omega. When Hunter realizes that they’re about to try and infiltrate an entire facility and they don’t even know if this clone is still alive, Echo points out that they took that risk once before: for him. “If there’s a chance that trooper is being held against his will, we have to try and get him out.”

Yes! Exactly right! So why doesn’t that apply to Crosshair?

“Because he tried to kill them, Clyde!” No, that’s the easy, dismissive answer. A chipped Crosshair tried to kill them. AKA, a Crosshair entirely under the Empire’s control. The only difference between his enslavement and Gregor’s is that Gregor’s chains were physical while Crosshair’s were mental. And again, the point of everything at the start of this post is to show that no one knows when or even if that chip was removed. TBB definitely didn’t have any reason to suspect that Crosshair was working under his own power until Crosshair himself said as much. We might have been able to make that case at the start of the season, but “Battle Scars” removes any possible confusion. The entire team watched Rex reach for his blaster when he learned their chips were still in. The entire team watched Wrecker become a totally different person and attack them, just like Crosshair did. The entire team forgave him instantly and had their own chips removed. So why in the world didn’t anyone go, “Wow, Crosshair has a chip too. He was no more responsible for attacking us than Wrecker was. We need to try to get him out, no matter how hard that might be, just like we had to try for all these other people we’ve helped.”

But they didn’t. No one even considered rescuing Crosshair. They only went back for Hunter and, when they realized Crosshair was there too, they didn’t change their plans to try and rescue him as well. He’s treated as a particularly threatening inconvenience, not another team member in need of their help.

The problem I have with how this all went down is that the team treated Crosshair like an enemy despite all evidence to the contrary. Despite Omega outright saying that this isn’t his fault, it’s the chip, the group seems to decide that he’s gone crazy or something and that there’s nothing they can do. “It’s fine,” I thought. “They don’t really get what the chip is like yet. They don’t understand how thoroughly it controls someone.” But then “Battle Scars” arrives and Wrecker is treated with such compassion (which he deserves!) only for the group to continue acting like Crosshair is somehow different. It’s easy to say, “But Crosshair shot Wrecker” and ignore the easy pushback of, “and Wrecker nearly shot Omega.” Up until Crosshair’s own accusations and Omega’s ignored comments, TBB’s understanding of the chip’s influence and the lack of responsibility that accompanies mysteriously disappears when the show’s antagonist becomes the subject of conversation. This is seen most clearly in how Hunter tries to frame things during his talk with Crosshair:

“You tried to kill us. We didn’t have a choice.”

“Can’t you see that they’re using you? It’s that inhibitor chip in your head.”

“You really don’t get who we are, do you?”

Hunter mentions the chip, but he acts as if it’s Crosshair’s responsibility to overcome it: “Can’t you see…” Of course he can’t see, that’s the entire point of the chip, the thing he currently believes Crosshair still has stuck in his head. But Hunter and the others—with Omega as a wonderful exception—never seem to have accepted this like they did for Wrecker. When Crosshair “tried to kill us” it’s seen as a deliberate act that he chose, not something forced on him like with Wrecker. When Hunter talks about their ethics, he subconsciously separates the team from Crosshair: “You really don’t get who we are, do you?”, revealing a pretty ingrained divide between them. Even Wrecker gets in on the action, the one brother who truly understands how much the chip controls someone: “All that time, you didn’t even try to come back.” What part of he couldn’t try is not hitting home here? Again, for the purposes of this conversation it doesn’t matter whether Crosshair was chipped this whole time or not. The point is that TBB believed he was chipped… and yet still expected him to somehow, magically overcome that programming, writing him off when he failed to do that. He’s consistently held responsible for actions that they were told (and, through Wrecker, saw) were completely outside of his control. Even when we factor in his claim that the chip was removed, TBB has ignored all the evidence I listed at the start. No one, not even Omega, challenges this super vague and strange claim, or seeks out proof because they don’t want to believe that their brother could willingly do this. There’s just this... acceptance that of course Crosshair went bad. Why? Because he was an asshole sometimes? Taking it all as written, it doesn’t feel like the batch considered him a true part of the team. Certainly not like Wrecker or Hunter. As shown, the batch will go out of their way, risk anything, forgive anything, for them. They have a level of faith that was never shown to Crosshair.

“Severe and unyielding,” Tech says and he’s absolutely right, but I’d seriously challenge this idea that any of the others would have automatically done better if the situations were reversed. It stood out to me that each batch member has a moment of doubt throughout the series, a brief glimpse into how they think the Empire isn’t that bad, at least when it comes to this particular thing. Basically, a moment that could lead to a very dangerous line of thinking without others to stomp it down. Wrecker announces that he’s happy working for whoever, provided they give him food and let him blow things up. Tech finds the chain codes to be an ingenious strategy and is clearly fascinated with their development. Hunter initially wants Omega to stay on Kamino, despite knowing that this Empire has already, systematically killed an entire group of people: the Jedi. Doesn’t matter. She’s still (supposedly) safer there than she would be running with the likes of them.

There’s absolutely no doubt that those three made the correct choice in defying the Empire, but I believe that their ability to make that choice is largely dependent on them having each other. They survive together, not apart, and it’s their unity that allows them to make the really hard calls, like setting out on their own and opposing such a formidable force. But if Tech’s chip had activated and he’d been left behind, would he have muscled through to escape somehow...or would he have gotten caught up in all the new technology the Empire offered him, succumbing to both his chip and the inevitability that if his squad no longer wanted him, why not stay? Would Wrecker have escaped, or been easily manipulated into a new life of exploding things? Would Hunter have been able to push through without his brothers, or would he have become devoted to a new team to lead? Obviously there’s no way to ever know, but it’s always easier to make the right decisions when you have support in doing so. Crosshair had no support. His team left him and yes, they had to in that specific moment, but the point is that they never came back. As far as we saw throughout the season, they never planned to come back. They all talk about loving the Crosshair who existed when life was easier, but they weren’t willing to fight for the Crosshair that most needed their help. When he says “You weren’t loyal to me,” he’s absolutely right. The same episode, “Return to Kamino,” gives Omega two powerful lines that the group rallies behind:

Omega: “[The danger] doesn’t matter. Saving Hunter is what matters.”

AZ: “You must leave.”

Omega: “Not without Hunter.”

The key word there is “Hunter.” Danger, stakes, risk, probability… none of that matters when Hunter needs help. Crosshair did not receive that same level of devotion.

Which creates a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. The group is upset that Crosshair isn’t rejoining them, but they fail to realize that he has no reason to trust them anymore. He’s not joining the Empire because he’s inherently evil and that’s that, end of discussion. He’s joining it because above all Crosshair wants a place to belong… and TBB has made it clear—unintentionally—that he does not belong with them. The horrible actions that Crosshair took under his own free will (theoretically) came after he realized that doing bad things while under the Empire’s control was, apparently, unforgivable. If it wasn’t, his team would have come back to rescue him. They could have at least tried. But they didn’t, so Crosshair is left with the conclusion that either what he did under the Empire’s control is something the group can’t forgive him for, or they can forgive that (like with Wrecker) and he’s the problem here. He’s the one not worth that effort.

“The Empire will be fazing out clones next,” Hunter says. To which Crosshair responds, “Not the ones that matter.”

He wants to matter to someone and events show he no longer matters to his brothers. So why not stay with the Empire? I mean, we as the audience ABSOLUTELY know why not. Self-doubt and feelings of isolation aren’t excuses for joining the Super Evil Organization. Crosshair, if he is under his own control, is still 100% in the wrong for supporting them, no matter his reasons. So it’s not an excuse, but rather an explanation of that very human, flawed, fallible thinking. He needs to be useful. He needs to be wanted. Crosshair is an absolute dick to the regs and I have no doubt that a lot of that stems from the harassment TBB has experienced from them (with a side of his inflated ego), but I’d bet it’s also due to Crosshair’s intense desire to be valuable to someone. He keeps pointing out the regs’ supposed deficiencies because it highlights his own usefulness. When Crosshair fails to find Hera, the Admiral says that soon he’ll get someone who can, looking straight at Howzer at the door. It makes Crosshair seethe because his entire identity is based on being useful, yet no one seems to need him anymore. TBB seems to no longer want him. The Empire no longer wants clones. Now even regs are considered a better option than him, the “superior” soldier. Everywhere Crosshair turns he’s getting the message that he’s not wanted, but he’ll keep fighting to at least be needed in some capacity, no matter how small. Even if that means overlooking all the horrors the Empire commits.

“All you’ll ever be to [the Empire] is a number,” Hunter says and he’s absolutely right. But to TBB recently, Crosshair hasn’t even been that. He’s been nothing. Nobody worth coming back for. To his mind, at least being a number is something.

I hope that all of this resolves itself into a conclusion that is kind to each side (preferably without a Vader-style death redemption), especially given the still ambiguous state of the chip, but from a writing standpoint I’m admittedly a bit wary. We’re obviously meant to believe that the batch all love each other, but as established throughout this entirely too long post, this season did a terrible job imo of proving that they love Crosshair. Or, at least, proving that they love him as much as the others. If this was really meant to be just a matter of miscommunication, with Crosshair making terrible life choices because he only thinks he was abandoned, then we as the audience would have seen the batch trying and failing to get him out. Or at least establishing a very good reason why they couldn’t take that risk, hopefully with entirely different side-missions so the audience isn’t constantly going, “So you can risk everything for Gregor... but not Crosshair?” I’m VERY glad that Crosshair was allowed to air his grievances to the extent he did, but the end result of that—Hunter continually denying this, Omega walking away from him in their rooms, neither Tech nor Wrecker actually sticking up for him and acknowledging the chip’s influence during at least some of all this—is making things feel rather one-sided. It’s like we’re meant to take Crosshair at his word and accept that he’s this garden-variety antagonist who joins the Empire because yay being on the winning side… despite all these complications that clearly have a huge impact on how we read the situation. It doesn’t help that the show has already embraced an inconsistent manner of portraying chipped-clones. We know every clone has one, we know only a couple clones are aware of the chip’s existence (and can thus try to get it out), we know they enter a “Good soldiers follow orders” mindlessness once activated… yet towards the end we see a lot of side character clones thinking for themselves. Howzer decides that he’s no longer loyal to the Empire, giving a speech where a couple other clones throw down their weapons too. Gregor was arrested because he likewise realized how wrong this all was. But how is that possible? Do the chips completely control the clones, or not? Are these clones somehow exceptions? Are the chips beginning to fail? All of that has a bearing on how we read Crosshair—what were his own decisions, how much he was capable of overcoming the chip, whether that changed at all during certain points—but right now that remains really unclear.

It’s details like that which make me wonder if all these other questions will be answered. Will the story resolve all those ambiguous moments surrounding the chip, or brush them off with the belief that we should have just taken Crosshair at his equally ambiguous word? Will the story acknowledge Crosshair’s points through someone other than Crosshair, allowing it to exist as a legitimate criticism, rather than the presumed excuses of an antagonist? I’m… not sure. On the whole I’m very happy with TBB’s writing—despite what all this might imply lol. Until my brain picks over the season and discovers something else, my only other gripe is not allowing Omega to form a solid bond with Tech and Echo, instead putting all the focus on big brother!Wrecker and dad!Hunter. I think it’s a solid show that does a lot right, but I’m worried that, unless there’s a brilliant answer to all these questions and an intent to unpack both sides of the Hunter vs. Crosshair debate with respect—not just falling back on, “Well, Crosshair is with the Empire so everything he says is automatically bad and wrong” take—we’ve just gotten the setup for a somewhat messy, ethical story. For anyone here who also reads my RWBY metas, I’m pretty sure you’re not at all surprised that I’m invested in going, “Hey, you had one of the heroes suddenly become/join a dictatorship and do a lot of horrific things, but within a pretty complicated context. Can we please work through that carefully and with an acknowledgement of the nuance here, rather than throwing the ‘evil’ character to the proverbial wolves?”

God knows TBB is leagues ahead of RWBY, but I hope things continue on in not just a good direction, but one that tackles the aspects of this situation that many fans—and Crosshair—have already pointed out. As much as I adore the cast—and I really, really do—it was discomforting to watch a found family show where 4/5th of that family so completely wrote off one of the members and crucially have, at least so far, refused to acknowledge that. I want complicated, flawed characters, but that’s only compelling when the storytelling admits to and grapples with those flaws. We have quite firmly established Crosshair’s flaws in Season One. I hope Season Two delves into the rest of the team’s too.

Aaaand with that meta-dump out of my system, I’m off to write TBB fic. Thanks for reading! :D

#The Bad Batch #TBB #Crosshair #Star Wars #SW #mymetas #do I take my life in my hands #by posting SW meta?#probably lol

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perpetuallyaiming · 2 years

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Went to a screening today for Empire Strikes back and I am in SHAMBLES ANAKIN NOOOOO also istg I grow fonder of 3PO every single time I see him.

But now that I’m back home and thinking about the events of Rogue One from my rewatch yesterday, my thoughts have been all about the dark troopers.

That sent me on a spiral thinking about TBB and Crosshair.

The almost certain facts:

Crosshair is going back to the Empire from where things were left off in the season finale

The Batch is now once again on the run, so they will need to seek those they can trust, therefore we will most certainly see Cid again

Nala Se is going to be relevant in cloning/research science that ties into The Mandalorian (her uniform bears the same symbol as the scientist who researched in Grogu) and the heavy foreshadowing shows that her career is far from ended

My speculations:

Crosshair will return to serving the Empire, but as we know from Tarkin’s Project War Mantle, the clones will quickly be replaced, meaning no matter how good of an asset Crosshair is, he will either be replaced or discarded, especially with his decisions in helping his brothers back on Kamino

He is also definitely not in a good headspace as of post Kamino destruction and the second time he doesn’t go with his brothers, although this time it’s by choice. He will definitely be conflicted if he made the right choice though

Considering we were given Fennec Shand, Cad Bane, and even Rex in Season 1, I would not be surprised if we see Ahsoka before the events of Rebels take place

Crosshair will eventually reunite with his brothers, but that man has a death flag so big on his back that the best case scenario is that he gets redeemed just as he dies, in the arms of his brothers.

It would be cool if, should there be a time skip, that the Batch meets with Hera again, either before Rebels or during a downtime during Rebels

I highly doubt the Batch would cross paths with OT characters, but they might be given a choice to fight alongside the rebels, to which I’m sure they will turn down for everyone’s safety since they need to care for Omega

Omega will be drastically relevant, maybe even to the point where she becomes a key to the Batch’s survival. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if she was taken back to Nala Se to have her genetic samples taken for Palpatine to start building his backup plan that eventually, with the research on Grogu, create who we all know today as ‘Rey Skywalker’ the Palpatine.

That last one is a super cracked idea though, and it’s definitely grasping at straws, but hey, I love to speculate!

#tbb headcanons #tbb crosshair #the bad batch headcanons #the bad batch spoilers #clone force 99 #senator palpatine #rey skywalker #it’s 1am and im dying #crosshair headcanon #sw rebels #sw sequels

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asteroids-and-tractorbeams · 3 years

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The Mandalorian 🤝 The Bad Batch: trying desperately to retcon and fix the mess that was The Rise of Skywalker and explain all the Palpatine clones

Me, vibrating off my chair: HEIR TO THE EMPIRE HEIR TO THE EMPIRE HEIR TO THE EMPIRE HEIR TO THE EMPIRE HEIR TO—

#let’s gooooooooo #groguu and eezra here we come!!!#I am WELL AWARE this is the dumbest worst plot they could pick for the Ahsoka show BUT STILL #I will be laughing my head off if that’s the direction they go #I know I’m like the only person who would have a great time with that #the only more ridiculous plot would be the hand of Thrawn plot which is still possible adhkkhfssgj #ahsoka series speculation

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starry-sky-stuff · 2 years

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Sorting Obi-Wan Kenobi

I was talking with @reds-burrow about Obi-Wan's sorting in his new show (which is super burnt), and I mentioned how I sort him as a Badger/Snake. Now that I've done a rewatch of the prequels and some Clone Wars episodes, here are my thoughts on his sorting.

Check out @wisteria-lodge for an explanation of the sortinghatchats system.

Obi-Wan's Badger Primary is less in contention than his secondary, which I'll be focusing on. The Jedi order are his community, and he lives and breathes their tradition and way of life. He's also got his smaller circle inside the Jedi Order of Anakin, Qui-Gon, and Ahsoka. His Badger Primary is why he burns so completely after the Jedi Order falls, because he's lost his community almost in its entirety.

The Phantom Menace:

There's little in this film that gives any real indication about Obi-Wan's secondary, since he mostly follows Qui-Gon's lead and doesn't really act independently. Nevertheless, at the end of the film following Qui-Gon's death, Obi-Wan is insistent on keeping his word to his master and taking Anakin as his Padawan. He doesn't demand the way a Lion might, but simply quietly announces his intention to train Anakin with or without the Council's permission. Such stubbornness sounds more like a Snake than a Lion to me, more an immoveable object than a battering ram.

His Badger Primary is obvious in his conflict with Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan, attached to his community of the Jedi Order, is a bit more concerned with following the Council than Qui-Gon. He's the one that brings up the Council and speculates about it's opinion, whereas Qui-Gon is more confident that he'll be able to turn them to his point of view (I think Qui-Gon is either a Lion/Snake or Bird/Snake).

Attack of the Clones:

Here's where Obi-Wan's Snake Secondary shines through the clearest, probably because it's where he has the most autonomy over his methods.

His investigation into the assassination attempts on Padme and Kamino is conducted using different models. He uses his Bird Secondary model to follow the clues and conduct research, and a Badger Secondary model too, in how he looks to his connections for information and outsources the investigative process. But his investigation is ultimately conducted without any clear plan, he simply follows the clues where they take him, ultimately taking him to Kamino.

Obi-Wan goes to Kamino with no plan, no real idea what's going on, and no idea what to expect. He simply waltzes in, takes stock of the situation, and goes with the flow. He doesn't come up with a cover before hand, but when presented with the information that a Jedi was expected he jumps on it, going along with the assumption that he's there to survey the troops. He's only momentarily stunned, before he quickly takes advantage of the opportunity to learn more.

Obi-Wan's scenes with Anakin also make his Snake Secondary more obvious. It could be that he's simply a rather chill Lion (especially considering Anakin is a very unchill Lion), but he doesn't engage with Anakin like a fellow Lion might. When Anakin argues, he doesn't argue back, preferring to avoid or subvert, where a Lion would be more inclined towards arguing by saying (or yelling) true things at each other. Instead, Obi-Wan tries different tactics in communicating with Anakin. He doesn't charge in like Anakin either, preferring to hold back and wait until an opportunity presents itself.

Revenge of the Sith:

His secondary is a little less on display here, mainly because he's generally reacting to events and his character rather takes a backseat in favour of showing Anakin's descent to the dark side.

However, this scene just screams Snake Secondary to me. The absolute glee with which he says "spring the trap", how he just expects that if they walk into a trap they'll be able to turn the situation to their advantage, is all signs of an opportunistic Snake. And on Utapau, when he needs to stall for time until reinforcements arrive, he simply leaps down into the hangar where Grevious is and engages the General in combat. This could also be his Lion Secondary model, which most often comes out during fights, especially fights where he's working with Anakin.

The Clone Wars:

Obi-Wan's Snake Secondary is on full display in two particular arcs in this series, namely the Zygerian arc in episodes 4x11-4x13 and the Hardeen arc in episodes 4x15-4x17.

In the Zygerian arc, once again, Obi-Wan needs to stall for time (on this occasion he needs to give Anakin and Ahsoka time to defuse the bombs), so he agrees to the meeting with the Zygerian slaver. He goes into the meeting with no real plan, simply noticing the slaver's hatred of the Jedi and playing on it to taunt him into combat. After he gets captured, enslaved and sent to the mines, Obi-Wan's Badger Primary takes a battering when he finds himself unable to help others, and he's forced to comply to prevent other's coming to harm. Compare this to the actions of Badger/Lion Katara in Avatar the Last Airbender, who, when she finds herself in a similar situation in a prison, makes a rousing speech that inspires the prisoners to action, allowing them to otherthrow the guards. Obi-Wan, in contrast, simply waits for the opportunity of rescue to arise.

A Lion Secondary would have found the Hardeen arc incredibly difficult to pull off - faking their death, assuming a new identity, and lying to their loved ones. But Obi-Wan never really struggles with this. He actually enjoys going undercover, saying that he likes playing the bad guy, and doesn't go into the situation with any real plan other than a general goal. He simply rolls with events as they come - the prison heist, being left behind, Anakin and Ahsoka tracking them down, the bounty hunter competition. He uses his Bird Secondary model in the competition as well, relying on prior skills and knowledge to face the tests. His Badger Primary and Badger Secondary model is also on display in the competition, as he immediately turns the other bounty hunters into a team to work together. (On a side note, Cad Bane is absolutely a Lion Primary. He abhors Hardeen killing Obi-Wan with a sniper rifle because he thinks it's cowardly, and saves Hardeen when Ival tries to skirt the rules of the game to kill him because it's dishonourable).

His Badger Primary also comes into conflict with Anakin's Snake Primary in this arc, because Obi-Wan is loyal to the Jedi Order above all, whereas Anakin wants Obi-Wan's loyalty to be first and foremost to him. Obi-Wan probably has a Snake Primary model he built for Anakin (because you couldn't have a Snake Primary like Anakin as your Padawan without one) , but it certainly never influences his decision making.

Obi-Wan's Snake Secondary is also probably why he gets along so well with Hondo in the show, since their shared secondaries just get along. They each understand the other in a way that makes them like the other (somewhat begrudgingly in Obi-Wan's case).

Furthermore, as @reds-burrow pointed out to me, Obi-Wan mastered the lightsaber form of Soresu, which focuses on defensive improvising, analysing an opponent's attacks and waiting for an opening to arise.

The Original Trilogy:

Obi-Wan's Snake Secondary is on full display in the OG Trilogy. He's sly, cunning, and opportunistic, with an attitude of 'let's find out'. He lies about knowing R2D2, although he did technically never own a droid, and tells Luke just enough of the truth about Anakin and Darth Vader whilst obscuring the most important information. Obi-Wan walks into the Mos Eisley canteen with no plan as to how to get them off the planet, he simply meets Chewbacca and from there buys a ride from Han. When they get confronted with stormtroopers, he doesn't fight them, simply uses his powers to make them go away.

The line 'from a certain point of view' is the epitome of a Snake Secondary. Obi-Wan tells the truth, but in such a way that it's both the truth and a lie by omission. That's not to say that Lions are incapable of lying, but Obi-Wan does it with such ease, and never really feels bad about it. It's just another tool is his repertoire for him.

Summary:

Badger Primary, Snake Primary model/Snake Secondary, Bird Secondary model, Badger Secondary model

#sortinghatchats #star wars #obi wan kenobi #once the kenobi show is finished I'll write another post about his sorting there #which is super burnt and I'm imagining will unburn #his sorting is quite complex with all these models #now I'm wondering what qui-gon and dooku's sortings are #because the interaction between the different sortings in the lineage is interesting #with bird/snake yoda #probably lion/snake or bird/snake qui-gon #badger/snake obi-wan #snake/lion anakin #and lion/lion ahsoka

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space-blue · 2 years

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Kenobi thoughts.

It's okay. It's not bad, but it's not great. I'm not sure if it'll end up being good, but it errs dangerously close to being boring and forgettable, right now.

More thought bellow the cut for spoilers.

Why is SW so obsessed with everything being for 6 to 12 year olds?

Why are every bad guy cringe and incompetent? Run into branches and do lame parkour?

Why is the cameraman making Reva pov of grabbing a pipe, cutting in the middle of her assassin creeds backflip to go to a dog-like move? Why is there a minute long cut of Obi-Wan and Leia goofing around while she's doing the cringe parkouring, killing any sense of a chase or momentum?

Why is everyone dressed in sheets and cheap tasteless costumes? I'm not usually one to nitpick costuming, but I'm also not usually one to *notice* it. Grab a tan sheet!! It's trendy!

What about internal consistency?

"the jedi failed you!" Reva says to the people of Tatooine. I beg your pardon? The planet never left Hutt possession. The Jedi were a tool of the Republic. They only came around to scam you and slaughter the locals.

There is so much tell with no show. The grand inquisitor monologues about hunting Jedi to people terrified of him, because as per usual Tatooine is treated not like a remote planet, but the poor neighborhood in a small galactic city.

Why would these people know what inquisitors are? Why would they care about Jedi? And if they know, and care, then why do you feel the need to monologue at them?

Why won't you *show us* that Tatooine is a backwater shit show? Why not open with the inquisitors crashing a slave auction? Why wouldn't the people tell the arrogant goth newcomers to piss off their lawn, only to be cut down? SHOW US dammit. Monologuing to a crowd doesn't count!

Also, if Obi-Wan knows that Vader = Anakin just from hearing the name... erm... how come a stinky little Mos Eisley pub owner can know about inquisitors, but Obi-Wan somehow never heard about *Vader* before? It's been 10 years! Bail works in the Senate, and he came IN PERSON to see you, how is Vader not discussed???

As for Leia, the actress does a great job for being this young. She delivers her lines very well, and she has some really sick burns. Fun! But WHY was she written to go from 14/10 logic to 2/10 just for plot convenience?

She can shame an adult with her sharp words and flawless logic, but when thinking "they kidnapped me to bait you out", her conclusion isn't "he must really be a Jedi then" but "I should totally run under live fire and make this impossible jump there's no way I can land."

Why? And why does Obi-Wan, a grown ass man who raised Anakin and co-raised Ahsoka, somehow fail to catch a 10 yo waddling next to him? Why cut your show the way you did, if you want to make her trotting away realistic?

Why did using the Force look like shitting a brick? Since when does one get so rusty it hurts? Why couldn't they show an emotional/psychological toll, from being instantly outed to all the inquisitors, instead of making it look like he was pulling a tendon flexing a shriveled muscle?

Bail Organa, how easy is it to get into your backyard? Why are the villains all Looney Tunes levels?

It wasn't bad! But it was... Not great. Not riveting. Not breath taking.

Worse, it felt like a short story. Done. I got what the trailer advertised. A Kenobi adventure. I have NO idea what next episode will have, but not in a fun, speculative way. Not "what's next on this journey?" More "Whatever the fuck is this show about then?"

If I weren't a clown platinum member of this circus fandom, IDK if I'd be motivated to come back for more?

Severance had me more edge of my seat than this, two episodes in, and it's about dystopian office work. Like—

Sigh. I'll keep watching. Who knows, it might go towards *good*, but right now it's just watchable. Nothing as bad as BoBF was even 2 episodes in but...

WHO THE FUCK IS SO INTO LAME PARKOUR AT DISNEY??? Can we get them off of this cringe trend? The director of photography CLEARLY doesn't know how to handle it. Just stop!

On the positive side, it was nice to see Breha and Bail... Leia's actress is great... Ewan is handsome, so is Owen. That Clone trooper didn't get the time he deserved and I hope he/others will show up again. Everyone tried their best.... The jawa was cute. Obi calling Leia his daughter was cute.... That's it. Ah, and Order 66 was great again as usual.

Here's to hopping nobody steps on a rake or runs into a fake tunnel next week.

#sw #star wars #kenobi #kenobi show #obi wan kenobi #spoilers #kenobi spoilers

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gffa · 3 years

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I know you mentioned this in one of your posts, but I also wanted to add something in regards to all those "hot takes" about Qui-Gon being Anakin's master instead.

You know what would be cool? If Saesee Tiin or Plo Koon were Anakin's master, instead. You know, Saesee Tiin, who is "regarded as one of the Order's best starfighter pilots" according to Wookiepedia. And Plo Koon, who (also according to Wookiepedia) is "one of the best pilots in the Jedi Order".

Yes, it is true that I do not like Qui-Gon for Reasons. But even setting those Reasons aside...

*shoves Plo Koon and Saesee Tiin in front of me and gestures to them furiously.*

I mean, I might be reaching here, but I think the 9-year-old who wants to be a pilot might find it very cool to learn from a very good pilot?

I love Obi-Wan, and it's basically canon that Obi-Wan was better with starships than Qui-Gon since Obi-Wan was the one to try and repair the ship, so he probably knows a lot despite his later dislike for piloting, and acting and costume design and the technology of the time probably played a not-insignificant role in the protagonists are Human...

But if someone wanted to explore Anakin having a different Jedi Master, I just think it would be much more interesting to put either of them in the role, compared to Qui-Gon Jinn.

I'm personally generally not really into "another master trained Anakin" scenarios because I think a very important theme in Star Wars is that Anakin's choices had to be Anakin's choices, that choice is at the very heart of Star Wars and implying that Anakin was nothing but a reactive agent rather than having any agency of his own would lessen the story. I take GL's words about how Anakin would have been fine if he'd been found as a Jedi earlier as the solution to be a pretty significant factor in that it's not on the Jedi for why Anakin turned to the dark side, but that because of his circumstances shaping him into the person he became, he couldn't let go of things, so he eventually fell. That it wouldn't matter if it was a different Jedi, that Anakin didn't want to let go of things. Further, while we don't see much of Anakin's training days (aside from the JQ novels, which were written before the prequels movies had finished coming up--some of the JQ ones even before AOTC!, which makes me take their worldbuilding with some serious grains of salt), TCW shows us that the Jedi seem to train their younglings in a more community-based style. There is some importance placed on lineage--AOTC and some of the supplementary material makes a point of Dooku's connection with Obi-Wan through Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan is an important part of Anakin's life still after his Knighting, we see Kit and Nahdar still working together, etc.--but even more than that, we see that Ahsoka is taught by pretty much every Jedi of significance that we know. So, I think Anakin already would have been having other masters stop by, would have had Saesee Tiin taking him out for piloting instructions, would have been learning from Cin Drallig in his lightsaber classes, would have been learning from Mace in dueling classes, would have been put under Plo's watchful eye sometimes when Obi-Wan had other missions, etc. Like, I do think that one of the troubles with Anakin and Obi-Wan is that they may not have sought other Jedi's help as much as they should have (but didn't turn it away all together--we see Bant and Mace stepping in to help them when they've been bickering a lot in the Choose Your Destiny book or you could argue that Anakin working really well with Mace in TCW shows that he's had plenty of experience in working with other Jedi besides Obi-Wan during his apprenticeship) but that ultimately Anakin's choices had to be about who he was as a person, rather than about who trained him. So, ultimately my point isn't, "Boo, no interesting speculation, no fun allowed!" (I feel like I'm being kind of a wet blanket at you, SORRY 😂) and more, "Feel free to go nuts with that stuff in canon-compliant fic and scenarios, because there's some strong evidence to support that it already happened!" And if you guys really loved me you'd write me a fic where Anakin goes to bug the caretaker for the Room of a Thousand Fountains and asking eight hundred questions about how the fountains work, where does the water go/come from, show me the diagrams, whoa, that's so wizard, you're growing plants in hydroponic bays to transfer them into the Kashyyyk corner of the gardens, hey, would it work better if you did it like this, and just Anakin being amazing at mechanics but also OMG PLANTS EVERYWHERE HE LOVES IT.

#obi wan kenobi #anakin skywalker #jedi order #meta

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legobiwan · 3 years

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Maul, Obi-wan, and Raydonia

I was doing research for an entirely different post and I just...couldn’t leave this scene alone. There’s just too much going on here for me *not* to dip my oar.

So Maul goes to Raydonia and terrorizes the populace in order to send a “message” to Obi-wan at the end of TCW Season 4:

First of all, the panel where Maul says, “face me,” is interesting as Maul is directed away from Obi-wan as Obi-wan looks at Maul’s back, perhaps in facing Maul’s back, he is looking at the past, or, more specifically perhaps not being able to look at his past he cannot face Maul’s holoimage dead-on.

Secondly, this is such an obvious setup. (I know, I know. “Spring the trap.”) But Maul’s hilarious line in Twin Suns really shows us how much he not only knows Obi-wan, but the Jedi at this point (and in Rebels, he contrives this plan because it has worked twice already, on Raydonia and later, Mandalore):

Although this is not the point of this post, you have to laugh. Maul and Obi-wan, to some degree, have been dancing the same tango for over 20 years and the only time there had been a misstep, so to speak, was when Obi-wan left Ahsoka in charge of the second attempt at a Mandalore occupation instead of going himself. But otherwise, geez, no wonder Maul ended up in Obi-wan’s arms at the end of it all, just like a “dip” maneuver at the end of a dance as mentioned above. (They *know* each other’s moves, flit between lead and follow, and if you take this metaphor to its conclusion, then you realize Maul went to Tatooine, sought Obi-wan not because he wanted Luke, but because he wanted closure, knowing what closure would mean in that circumstance.)

But I’m getting off-topic. Maul goads Obi-wan by threatening to burn Raydonia to the ground and Obi-wan, of course, being of “noble heart,” immediately proclaims that he has to go. Alone, of course.

Mace, being the only voice of wisdom in this room, offers a sound strategy:

Obi-wan immediately rejects this perfectly viable option.

This justification is bullshit. Obi-wan is known for being a master tactician and yet he’s refusing Mace’s offer of backup? First of all, between the two of them alone, I’m certain they could have come up with a decent plan. Secondly, Obi-wan had to know that Maul wasn’t going to keep his word. Raydonia was going to burn, regardless of whether Obi-wan came alone or not.

And, in fact, here is Exhibit A of Raydonia burning:

Even if he isn’t fully aware of this, I posit that Obi-wan rejects Mace’s offer not because he wants to save Raydonia on the premise of a very false promise (if he were truly concerned about Raydonia, he would have taken the task force), but because, as the title of this episode suggests - he wants revenge.

And I doubt Obi-wan even admits this to himself, using his “noble-heart” to justify going to Raydonia alone to face a massive threat to both the Republic and Jedi in the middle of a war headed by the Sith.

By every logical, tactical measurement, Obi-wan should have taken backup. And he outright refuses it because of a personal vendetta. I have more to say about this in another post, but his actions here seem to be part of this cycle of “fall” and “absolution” that Obi-wan goes through in TCW, each “fall” going lower, each act of contrition more extreme. (And it plays into a theory I have that if the war had continued, if events had been just a little different - Obi-wan would have fallen and Dooku would have eventually gotten his most prized pupil.) It also says a lot that in the mirrored situation during the “Siege of Mandalore” arc, Ahsoka is only able to capture Maul because she brought the backup. Or, more precisely put, because Obi-wan authorized the (illegal) backup of he 501st.

Mace, however, isn’t swayed by Obi-wan’s pretty terrible argument. (And for pretty damn good reason.)

But here is where it gets truly bizarre.

What the hell, Yoda? I was trying to figure out the thought process that would lead to Yoda authorizing this. Clearly, it’s not stemming from any military advantage or even thought towards the people of Raydonia. They’re already burnt to the ground, both in Maul’s mind and the Council’s mind (despite Obi-wan’s thin rationalizations).

So then why? If I start with the really wild speculation, I suppose I could say that Yoda had someone form of...Force premonition that Obi-wan going alone to Raydonia would lead to an intervention by Ventress (who Yoda did sense was kicking and ambivalent about her role in the war) which would lead to Ahsoka’s trial and eventual acquittal which would lead to Maul being captured on Mandalore which would lead to the Duel on Malachor which would lead to Luke finding Grogu -

Yeah, you know what?

NO way that’s true. Not even Palpatine could see that far into the future so I can BS on that idea.

So why send Kenobi alone?

I think this harkens to what we see later during the “Wrong Jedi” arc.

If Ahsoka’s trial was her great test, then Maul’s reappearance was Obi-wan’s. Both Mace and Yoda have to know that Obi-wan was teetering on the Dark Side when he beat Maul all those years ago (in fact, the TPM novelization basically states Obi-wan harnesses some Dark Side to beat Maul in his rage.) Mace wants to bring backup, for very practical reasons but also probably keep tabs on an Obi-wan who was at severe risk of becoming unbalanced.

Yoda, on the other hand, sends Obi-wan alone to face his past, to face his darkness and overcome it (in the middle of a war with the Sith where the balance of power could have shifted significantly if Maul and Dooku and Sidious were able to coexist in the same room without the threat of first-degree murder).

And here’s the thing. Both Obi-wan and Ahsoka FAIL this test. Ahsoka walks away from the Jedi, Obi-wan gets the snot pounded out of him, taps into his rage (this is not a man in control of himself),

...and then lets a war criminal go free in exchange for her help, all of which set up the disaster that Mandalore becomes in later seasons. In fact, Obi-wan doesn’t pass this supposed test until over 20 years later, on Tatooine. And...is it worth everything that occurred between this episode and “Twin Suns”? Could Yoda have foreseen all of this? Highly unlikely. It’s nice poetry, but at what cost?

Which leads to another interesting observation - if Yoda feels this is Obi-wan’s test, then both he and Mace feel Obi-wan is more than capable of flirting with the Dark Side. (Yes, all Jedi are, of course, but this seems rather pointed for a man who is considered the pinnacle of Jedi-ness). Again, I have another long post gestating about this topic, but I doubt Mace and Yoda didn’t notice some signs of Obi-wan’s slow fall and attempts at absolution (it’s almost like the habits of an addict - fall, swear off the sauce, and than fall again, even lower) throughout TCW, but between the pressures of the war and trust in Obi-wan, they didn’t see it as a huge threat.

So after Obi-wan leaves for his Revenge Tour, Mace explains, rather diplomatically, that he thinks Yoda’s idea is hot garbage and that his (Maul’s) -

Yes, and Obi-wan at least does learn from this, as stated above...eventually.

Oh, Yoda. This is where I feel the Coucil lost their way. Again, Dooku’s famous quote about Yoda and the Council from the Clone Wars novelization:

"The Jedi Order's problem is Yoda. No being can wield that kind of power for centuries without becoming complacent at best or corrupt at worst. He has no idea that it's overtaken him; he no longer sees all the little cumulative evils that the Republic tolerates and fosters, from slavery to endless wars, and he never asks, 'Why are we not acting to stop this?' Live alongside corruption for too long, and you no longer notice the stench."

It could be argued that Yoda is placing this “test” of Obi-wan above the people of Raydonia, hell, the entire Republic, in priority. Raydonia is collateral damage, and if Obi-wan fails his test, so are many planets in the Republic (which is *exactly* what played out). I suppose, in the very end - again, 20 years later on Tatooine - this was resolved and Luke Skywalker was saved to eventually help redeem his father and destroy Palpatine but...that only really makes sense in hindsight and overlooks the bad decisions the Council and specifically Yoda, are making in real-time.

And Mace is not convinced here. Too many things could go wrong. Maul could escape. Obi-wan could be killed. Obi-wan could possibly turn, or at least “darken,” so to speak.

“Trust in the Force,” Mace might say, “but all others pay in credits.”

#hello there #long post #obi wan kenobi #darth maul #mace windu #yoda #raydonia #meta #well i dont know where *that* little analysis came from but #hey it's my weekend right now so enjoy the fruits of my spare time #and yes i will write that obi wan falling post at some point

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agirlunderarock · 2 years

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Some thoughts and predictions for the Kenobi show and other star wars shows.

Okay so just want to put this out there before I forget or rather before we get any other kind of news on the Kenobi trailer. These are my predictions for the show and what I think is more or less going on with the Star Wars shows in general. I like to ramble a lot to get to my point so I’m sorry for that, but I promise it will all make sense in the end. Keep in mind, I have not read all the books, or comics, this is me just looking at what we have in watchable media and without me taking a moment to look through wookiepedia. Consider this for casual but curious fans of the watchable media.

If what I think is going to happen with the Kenobi show, its going to follow more or less the same format that we’ve seen with the Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett. If you look at those two shows, and how the stories line up, I think The Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, and the Ahsoka show are all going to be one cohesive story. Start with the first two episodes of BoBF, or maybe Ahsoka, then S1 of Mando, probably Ahsoka show bits, S2 of Mando, the rest of BoBF and then Ahsoka. I don’t know about anyone else watching these- like I know it gets a little frustrating at times the way the story is being told, but with Star Wars the story tends to be more about themes. I think with these three shows, the cohesive them is about reclaiming identity in some way shape or form. Like these three shows feature the biggest character types in Star Wars: Jedi, Bounty Hunters, and Mandalorians. I think they’re trying to give us some new perspectives on these character types, the success of that execution however is debatable. Din is actively redefining what it means to be Mandalorian. Is he going to choose to follow someone like Bo Katan, is going to continue subscribing to the Armorer’s way of being Mandalorian, or is Din going to culturally shift it all together. Maybe he won’t, not for all Mandalorians, but he is whether he wants to face it or not, growing into someone more than just a bounty hunter. Boba on the other hand is redefining for the audience what Bounty Hunters can be. Its like he said, every time they’re on screen, they’re either there to just fuck shit up or get blasted in some capacity. We don’t often see much personality for them outside hired muscle out for credits. An arguement can be made that we’ve already seen this with Ventress, but she wasn’t always a bounty hunter. We see Boba trying to build himself a family he can rely on and count on. He wants to surround himself with people who won’t turn on each other for some credits. The guy has always been ambitious, Clone Wars only showed us for revenge on Mace. I like getting to see this other side of him. Now for the Ahsoka show, this is purely speculative, but I think we’re going to see her come into her own as a jedi master. We know she’s met Luke now, knows who he is and is reconciled her guilt about Anakin becoming Vader. However, I think we’re going to end up seeing her confront some new problems as she looks for Thrawn and Ezra. Two problems I think will end up coming into play are issues of Mandalorian leadership, and issues in the Outer Rim. I might make a separate post for Ahsoka, but long story short, this is the first time in like 20 years Ahsoka really gets to be free to be a jedi, she’s meeting other people who want to be jedi. We’ve only seen jedi during war, this is going to be something different and I’m pretty excited to see where it goes.

okay now back to Obi-Wan

I bring all of this up because I think the Kenobi show is going to do the same thing as the three previously mentioned shows.

What do we know right now? We’ve got Bad Batch possibly coming out this year, Obi-Wan Kenobi in May, and then production and stuff for Andor. Now we know the Kenobi show is supposed to be ten years after Order 66. We’re going to end up with flash backs, we’re going to be scarred again. No surprises there. I do think though, that we’re going to get some things that set up Andor, and maybe some of the things we’ve already seen in Rebels. We’re talking about themes though right? Obviously the start of the rebellion is going to be the thing that ties all of these things together including Bad Batch. Theres a reason I keep bringing that up I promise just bare with me.Also though probably Saw Gurerra, like I won’t be surprised if he shows up. Heck I probably won’t even be mad. Rebels gives us the PERFECT example of found family and instead of characters just suddenly finding themselves thrust into war, we actively see the rebellion gaining traction and it building to the war and battles and things. By the time we get to S4 of Rebels its clear we’re coming up to a BIG THING. Rebels is full of hope and optimism despite how bad things get, so Rebels is our end point. Andor is our midway point. Cassian would only be like 10 or 12 or like a young teenager if/when we see him in the Kenobi show. So like if anything, it would be something like Obi-Wan accidentally putting a little spark of rebellion and fighting for a good cause in him. I don’t know. I’m guessing and I haven’t read Cassian’s wookiepedia page. My point is Cassian is going to be the point that bridges the Kenobi show, Rebels, and Rogue One. From what I remember about Cassian in Rogue One he is a bit of a rougher Rebel he’s fairly disillusioned with the rebellion until he comes across Jyn. I think we’re going to see how it got to that point for him. Maybe we’ll get some references to Ghost Crew. Now I come back to the Kenobi show. I don’t think officially the rebellion has taken roots at this point. This is ten years after Mustafar, and Obi-Wan is still really going through it. Kenobi is going to be kind of our dip in that story. He’s not as bad emotionally as he was in the months/year directly following 66 but he’s still struggling a little to pick himself back up. He’s doing what he can, but he’s carrying tremendous amounts of guilt he hasn’t properly dealt with or maybe doesn’t want to deal with. Think Ahsoka in Rebels when she’s meditating in the temple on Lothal. I think we’ll get some conversations between himself and Bail, and possibly Ahsoka, trying to convince him to be part of Fulcrum but he refuses. He says its to protect Luke, but theres a part of him that isn’t sure if its really because he’s looking out for Luke, or if he’s afraid he’s going to mess up the chance to build the rebellion. I mean think about it, him running around doing stuff is bound to draw Vader’s and Palpatine’s attention. I think, that he eventually does agree to it, thats when we get the big fight between him and Vader and Obi-Wan loses. Just like Ahsoka did in rebels, just you know without dying. This is our lowest point for the rebellion. Go back about 9 or ten years and we have the first little pieces of Rebellion in the Bad Batch. This is the rebellion on its first upswing before ultimately plunging to where we see it in the Kenobi show. All these things are loosely connected by the rebellion and Saw.

this next bit gets its own little section for cameos and why

I think in terms of Kenobi show cameos, the one everyone is most anxious for is the possibility of Imperial Cody. I think we’re going to see some imperial clones, but I don’t think its going to be Cody. Some of ya’ll are going to hate me for this, BUT- We have an episode in Rebels called the Old Commanders. I always thought it was a little weird that they had Gregor there instead of Cody, and while I think that decision was mostly made as a comedic choice, I think we’re going to get an in story answer with either the Kenobi show or Bad Batch. Kenobi show its going to be obvious, Cody is imperial, confronts Obi-Wan, and the latter is forced to kill his former friend. I don’t like it. I don’t like that version of things. Now I know you’re saying, but Obi-Wan wouldn’t kill him. He wouldn’t want to, but he maimed Anakin and thought he left him for dead and looked how that turned out. Its going to fucking hurt Obi-Wan but he could. Also, based on what they did to the Tuskins in Book of Boba Fett, I don’t trust them to not go this route if he appears. Anyways I don’t like that version. I’d rather see Obi-Wan confronted by an imperial clone, reminded of Cody and Fives and immediately feel guilty about that and wonder if he could have done more. Also Obi-Wan already lost him once, why do we have to put him through that again? I think instead is that we’re going to see him in bad batch. One of those last episodes where they were getting Gregor and then Hunter, they were getting a call from Rex. I think Rex went looking for Cody and Wolff. He managed to get Wolff and started getting the process for getting the chip out but something went wrong. I think in S2 of Bad Batch we’re going to see some Imperial Cody. After all I think Rex even said something about the Empire still operating on the system he and Cody came up with I don’t remember if this was mentioned in Rebels or Bad Batch. I think the Rex and the boys are going to try to save Cody, end up getting captured and Cody is doing his best to actively fight the chip and eventually lets them go, but not without getting some massive headaches. Things get worse as he starts losing his fight with the chip, and the last decision he gets to make as himself is to make sure Rex and the other escape. I’d rather him have some autonomy in how he goes, while also showing us that there are clones trying to break free of the chips. He wouldn’t die for a white man’s anyone’s character development, and if done correctly could have a major impact in what the Empire does with the remaining clones.

In case this wasn’t clear, I’m almost certain we’re going to have an Ahsoka cameo at some point. If not with Obi-Wan with Bail doing Fulcrum things.

We could get a Maul cameo. LIke the dude is at the height of his crime syndicate isn’t he? We’re probably going to get some indirect references to him.

It would be nice to see Hondo, not going to lie. I think this is the least likely cameo, but I think it would be the funniest. Like I can imagine Hondo trying to recruit this kid into working in his “transportation service” and smuggling spice and stuff, and Obi-Wan happens to pass by and completely distracts Hondo and casually ushers a young Cassian away.

If we see Maul, we’re probably going to see Bo Katan. I think we’ll see several iterations of people trying to get Obi-Wan to join the rebellion and leave Tatooine. Bo Katan is going to come in real strong with that shade about Satine again, I’m going to want to fist fight her again. Its fine. Its okay. Its not okay.

Obviously we’re going to get some Anakin moments, there hasn’t been any secrets there. I’m going to ugly cry. Its fine. Its okay. Its not okay.

Maybe a Qui-Gon cameo, depending on if Liam Neeson wants to join in.

I personally would love to see a Kanan cameo. Kanan is very important to me. I don’t know what he would do other than he’s at really fucking bad point in his life too, but if I can have my two favorite sad jedi on screen for two seconds I will combust. Honestly if Kanan is going to be anything like what I’ve heard in New Dawn, then he’d be an interesting character foil for Obi-Wan in that moment. Honestly I just think Kanan is an interesting character foil in general for Obi-Wan and Anakin, but thats a different post and i think I’ve rambled enough.

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