#and i don't really think it would fit in the story that trigun is

[yuhi-san]

So, nightows world building and timeline is, uh, a thing. and everything differs slightly between trimax, tristamp and 98.

And I meant to write something deep about it for @tristampparty but work is trying to kill me metaphorically as well as literally so here is just my thought:

Luida seemed aware that independent plants were a distinct possibility. And chronica later confirms that they had dealt with other independents, so they aren’t unheard off for them by then.

but tesla was the first known independent plant, born roughly 50 years before vash and knives, also on ship five. And I was just thinking, what has ship five going on that it had three independents be born there inn relatively short time? Must have been some special climate or something.

Because nothing indicates that between tesla and the twins any other independents have been born on any of the seed ships.

Even on ship three that stayed mostly intact after the great fall there wasn’t a single independent born in 150 years. Also none on no mans land. (which I guess could be attributed to the fact that the plants struggled to adjust to the environment but still.)

So just a thought.

[anachronistic-falsehood]

Vash and Femininity: Trigun Stampede and its Themes of Bodily Autonomy, Exploitation, and Vague Gender Fuckery

alright sit the fuck down. we're gonna talk about THEMES

I was on Twitter- terrible idea usually, but a couple people I follow made some tweets that got me thinking about Trigun's overall themes, and here we are. So let's talk about some themes in Tristamp! And I'll take a couple looks at Trimax as well, just for fun :3

Let's look at how the showrunners utilize gender roles and exploitation of feminine characters to show how unhealthy Knives' obsession with his ideal of Vash is, and how horrific his exploitation of Vash and the Plants is.

Vash, from the beginning of Tristamp, is someone who cares about people's choices. When people kill others in front of him, he reiterates that whether someone lives or dies is not another person's choice to make. This is something he learned from Rem (a prominent female figure in his life). He refuses to kill people because that is not his choice to make. To kill someone is the ultimate removal of their bodily autonomy. They can no longer make any choices at all; they're dead.

Vash is also someone who has almost no choice in what path his life takes. He's constantly dragged around by outside forces, namely situations that are caused by Knives (which we'll get into later). Vash doesn't make things happen, things happen to Vash. The majority of events that occur are not his fault. He's pushed and pulled in a thousand different directions. His entire life is completely out of his control.

This can be seen as early on in his life as the Fall, something he had no control over and had no idea he even had a part in. Even later, in the ship with Luida and Brad, after he's been rescued from the desert, he's kept in handcuffs right up until he's shown to be of use to them and the Plant on their ship. After that, he could theoretically say "no, I don't want to go to other ships and heal their plants," but he doesn't. He's Vash. He's helpful and nurturing at his core, and these people have done so much for him just by letting him stay, so he'll do whatever they ask, no question.

This carries over into his adulthood. At Jeneora Rock, he goes to look at their Plant at one simple request, doesn't protest when he's dragged into a duel-- he doesn't take initiative unless someone's life is immediately at stake. He lets people tell him what to do and lets himself get dragged around by the wrist. He doesn't even pretend to have control over his life like Trimax Vash does, which I mean. Fair. Why pretend to have a grip on your existence when it's impossible to do anything without a gun pointed at your head?

Vash is a very passive character. He's nurturing, kind, gentle- he's a guy that fits a lot of very typical feminine character stereotypes. If you wrote this same story but made him a woman, I wouldn't bat an eye (but I would definitely be looking at it a lot more critically, what with the amount of stereotypically nurturing/motherly female characters in media already.)

This contrasts directly with Knives. He makes a decision and carries through no matter what stands in his way. He takes initiative. If Vash is a passive character, Knives is an active character. Wherever he goes, he leaves a lasting imprint. He makes shit happen! If outside forces make things happen to him, he'll go out of his way to make sure that particular force doesn't affect him again.

These two tweets I saw are what got me thinking about this originally. I just feel like here's a good place to put them as a segue into talking about episode 11.

Episode 11 is where a lot of this feminine imagery really just. Explodes in your face. IT'S RIGHT THERE. You can't dance around it if you try. And it kind of reaches a peak when the connection reaches 100%, the gate opens, and. well. THIS happens to the Plants.

Plants, in both Trimax and Tristamp, are almost always typically feminine-looking. Knives and Vash are the only two who are male or even masculine at all. Knives, as the most masculine out of all of them, is the one trying to take charge, and mould the world as he sees fit, to a degree that is detrimental to both him and everyone else. And Vash-- passive, feminine, kind and nurturing, whose Angel Arm in the manga always sprouts decidedly feminine-looking Plant parts-- is the one being exploited for Knives' plans. It's no mistake that they made the giant plant formation at the end of ep 11 look like a giant woman that almost resembles Rem.

Vash wants people to make their own choices and keep their autonomy when it comes to their bodies and lives. Knives is the exact opposite. He wants all Plants to become independent and he uses Vash to achieve that goal, without asking what Vash wants or even knowing what the Plants themselves would prefer. He exploits Vash for the soul purpose of trying to make these Plants have Independent Plant babies. He's completely incapable of seeing that his choices are not for the greater good! He thinks he's saving them, but none of his actions are for the good of anyone but himself. He’s just violating them for his own gain.

They're really leaning into gender roles for these guys, but in a way that screams "HEY, LOOK AT THIS! ISN'T IT FUCKED UP? LOOK AT HOW FUCKED UP THAT IS. LOOK AT THIS, AND BE UNCOMFORTABLE, AND KNOW THAT IT IS FUCKED UP."

Because it is! It's so extremely fucked up. They're using this imagery and these roles, something that makes most of us intrinsically uncomfortable, to drive home how unhealthy Knives relationship with his ideal of Vash is. That's the point. We're supposed to be uncomfortable with this.

Now of course there's some nuance to it. Like, you could see Knives as somewhat of a feminine and/or queer-coded figure as well, ESPECIALLY if you look at some of his panels in the manga, which could in turn lead to themes about infighting and control within marginalized communities, but that might be something for another post. :3

And there's definitely different ways you could take this! Vash, with all this feminine imagery, could be either transfem or transmasc coded, depending on what way you'd rather see it, which could lead into themes of how people outside the norm constantly face a lack of bodily autonomy and are exploited for purposes outside their boundaries. We could also look at Wolfwood and his lack of choice over joining the Eye of Michael and becoming the Punisher, and how masculine men (particularly men of colour) are often forced into violent roles against their will. If we look at Trimax, the exact same could be said for Livio/Razlo and people with disorders such as DID/OSDD.

There are many different ways you could spin these themes, some of which I don't feel personally qualified to discuss. If anyone who is qualified to talk about Wolfwood or Livio/Razlo or even other characters related to these themes, then god PLEASE add onto this post or make a post and tag me or something. I would love to read it!

Anyway, in conclusion: Vash is a feminine figure constantly taken advantage of and exploited and and he's so incredibly trans/nonbinary-coded that it drives me insane. Thank you

[peachyloveswriting]

How about vash n reader are in a relationship and vashs insecurity and fear gets the best of him so he tries to break it off to protect reader but reader aint fucking having it and is all like “if you truly mean it then look at me in the eyes and tell me you dont love me” and OBVIOUSLY he cant cause hes so in love and shit then they makeout makeup

I absolutely love the possibility of angst here, the hurt/comfort is calling my name right now. Thanks for the req anon. I know the Gif is from Trigun Stampede but this one will take place in the original, I just think it better fits the story.

YOU'RE A BAD LIAR --- Vash the Stampede

SUMMARY: A very short story about Vash finally admitting his insecurities. But how could he be so foolish, it's written all over him and you're not a fool.

⸝⸝⸝⸝⸝

You stare at Vash, leaned up against the side of your house while he gazes off into the distance. He's wearing his shades again just to hide the look in his eyes, just so he doesn't have to look at you. He's so bad at hiding his emotions, even with the shades covering his eyes you can read the pain all over his face. His voice really gives it away.

"Why haven't you left yet?" Vash's voice rings out into the night, stirring the distilled silence floating around you. Even further he looks away from you.

"Because I love you." A simple answer for a simple question, but vash's instability isn't moved. He digs his hands deeper into his pockets and lowers his gaze to the wooden boards below his feet. "You shouldn't."

You frown, stepping forward to rest a hand on his arm. He shrugs you off. "Vash, don't be like this." From the moment you met him, he warned you time and time again about the dangers of crossing his path. You know well and good just what dangers he poses to you and yet you fight back against his word. "You know I won't leave you, it doesn't matter if it kills me-"

"it matters to me!" You jolt at his sudden shout. Surely it must have woke the neighbors. "I can't have you dead because of me. I won't let it happen. I'm done, I'm breaking this off now." He points to the ground and lightly stomps his foot.

Behind the shades, tears build in his eyes and threaten to spill. He can't stop his bottom lips from trembling with the urge to cry. He looked at you, damnit. He knows if he looked he would breakdown on the spot. How could he ever think of leaving you? He doesn't want too, but he's torn between keeping you close and cutting ties. Both burn the edges of his heart, daring to light his whole body ablaze.

"If you truly mean it, I want you to look at me in my eyes and tell me that you don't love me." You grasp his arm with a vice grip. His eyes meet you and the glint off his shades moves away. Eyes now fully in view, you can see right through his facade. He trembles in your touch.

"I can't." He sobs. "I can't say it. I won't." Every hard emotion he tried to portray crumbles in an instant. Longing for your comfort he pulls you close and wraps you tightly in his arms. His head is tucked away in the nape of your neck where you can feel his tears wet your skin and his breath tickle you. Smoothing your hands over his back you rub his through his coat while you shush his quiet crying.

He's given you his soul, the very gentle and kind soul that might break if you hold it the wrong way. Such a soft man melting right into your arms while he shudders and shakes. You're his world, he can't take the chance of getting you involved with him yet you're already in so deep. People will come after you soon enough, and the law will come for you too. Not a single person leaves his hold unharmed and it's sad.

Vash lifts his head. "Come with me. You can't stay here by yourself anymore." Despite the dangers he knows will find you out there with him, Vash knows he'll at least be there to keep you safe. As long as you're by his side nothing bad will happen. "I can't let you be here alone. If someone comes and I'm not here-"

You cup his face in your hands. "I'll be right by your side as long as you'll allow it." Your words are so kind and welcoming, it makes Vash's heart swell. Even knowing what fate might await you with him you always stick by his side, never daring to stray far from his grasp and keeping his insecurities away.

"I love you. I'm so sorry I even thought of breaking up with you." He presses a kiss to your forehead. "It'll never happen again, I swear."

With a kind smile you rub his cheek with your thumb. "It's ok. Just shut up and kiss me. That'll be your apology."

He nods and without question and presses his lips to yours. They meld perfectly together like pieces of a puzzle while you move in tandem. He is gentle and firm, not wanting to pull away in fear of it never happening again. Instead he nibbles at your bottom lip, his sharp canines poking a hole in your skin. Gasping for but a bright moment, you're stopped by his tongue intruding your mouth. You don't resist and close your eyes to let the feeling wash over you. The feeling of comfort and safety in his grasp. The one he offers to you anytime he's nearby. This is home.

[roserocksrapidly]

Not to complain about tri stamp on main, genuinely NOT trying to bash it, but I really don't like how they handled Vash and Knives relationship :/ . And it's not just bc it's different from the source material. Specifically rn thinking about the arm situation.

Rambling thoughts on why below:

On the surface, it's the same- there's a confrontation between the brothers and it ends with Knives cutting off Vash's arm. But like the implications are so different 😭. In stamp, they argue bc Knives just "protected" Vash by killing some humans, Vash's powers start to go haywire in a fit of protective rage, and Knives takes Vash's arm to keep him from black holing everything. But the manga situation frames it in a much more interesting way to me. They're arguing bc Knives just killed humans to "save" Vash again, BUT

1) these humans did actually hurt Vash. It's not all that unreasonable to retaliate when the evidence of their cruelty is right there in a young Vash chained to a pole in the town square. But Vash would never retaliate bc of his pacifism and the fact that he understands why they have done something cruel. He would get pissed at Knives killing any humans of course, but the pre-established relationship Vash has with these people in particular gives the reader a different picture of WHY Vash chooses pacifism. He's not just "uwu all humans are good", he knows intimately that they can be cruel but he believes strongly in their ability to change-- they're cruel bc they were backed into a corner, that means there's another path forward for them, the cruelty is not inevitable, they all have blank tickets. Meanwhile in stamp, those random scientists were not cruel to Vash. Yeah, scientists as a whole shunned him and spoke bad about him at first, but Vash has a well-established, friendly working relationship by that point. Taking away the immediacy of the cruelty frames Knives as the more mature one who sees past the humans' front to see how they're taking advantage of Vash and it frames Vash as the naive one who must learn why he should protect people instead of turning a blind eye to their cruelty. And like I get why Orange probably did this-- it's a more conventional story beat and gives room to show Vash's development from a naive kid to the wiser hero. But idk I just think this is boring compared to trimax's approach where our expectations for Vash to be the naive hero (like wolfwood's expectations) are slowly chipped away as we learn that Vash is actually a deeply thoughtful, mature person. Much more mature compared to Knives, whose philosophy of killing everything that can hurt you is shown to be deeply childish and naive.

Which leads me to 2) Knives in trimax did not cut off Vash's arm to save or protect him. Even if you can argue stamp Knives did it more to save himself than save Vash, there's still external benefits to keeping Vash from black holing everything uncontrollably lol. But there is NO hiding why manga Knives did it. It was a pure, petty, childish fit of rage. Vash tries to shoot him and Knives is pissed that Vash isn't doing what he wants, that he's standing up to Knives. Vash isn't playing the game how Knives insists it must be played and Knives is a kid who can't regulate his emotions so he lashes out when he doesn't get his way. This is one of the most transparent moments for who Knives is as a person. And I think it's one of the most crucial scenes in the series for showing the main point: that cruelty is childish and cannot bring about a better world and kindness and mercy are the harder road that take real maturity to truly believe in.

Anways, all that being said I don't hate stamp. I can tell that Orange does genuinely have a lot of love for trimax and trigun as a whole and they had to make a lot of simplifying adaptational choices to even conceivably fit the charm of a story as deceptively introspective as trigun into 12 episodes. But still, the places they chose to simplify just don't work for me. I think they make the story much more bland, unfortunately. If I were to watch stamp completely blind, I don't think I would be all that interested in the Vash Knives conflict bc it's a narrative I've seen a hundred times before. And I just think that's a shame, because I could write paragraphs and paragraphs more on how interesting their relationship in the manga is and I wish more people could be exposed to that story.

[gooboogy]

I've been driving a lot today so I finally started Midst! just finished episode 13 and here is my shit sandwich so far:

the positive (pt.1)

very intriguing! it reminds me a lot of Disco Elysium, Trigun (haven't finished it), and Terry Pratchett (I've only read Going Postal). I am always endlessly delighted by nonsense bureaucracy. each of the protagonists are very interesting, I especially like moc weep. Lark I'm very much looking forward to learning what the hell her deal is. I also really like Phineas, although since his situation continues to get kinda worse and he is punished for like, existing, someone please let me know if this is going to keep happening without reprieve (a la Jonathan Sims) so I can bounce now. scapegoating like that is a huge trigger for me (at least without things Getting Better). otherwise really cool!

the negative

the Radio Lab-esque cadence is a huuugggeee pet peeve of mine. I absolutely can't stand it (I mean I can but, with enough monkey rage to demolish a rage room or two) it very often distracts me from what's going on. I think the narrators are at their strongest when they get to flub around, make up words that fit, splutter in astonishment, chitter back and forth, just being "Imperfect" about it. when they say things like they're telling a story to someone and not on NPR at 5am. and then when I turn the volume up to where I can understand what they're saying, the S sounds are so piercing it physically hurts to listen to. it aggravates my headaches and tinnitus big time 😭 (to be fair I am slightly dehydrated too.) there's also quite a few parts where they play the sound effects and the music so loud that I can't hear anything of what's going on to its own detriment, like I don't think the effect adds to the story in a meaningful way.

the positive (pt.2)

very intrigued by this Terror concept. I would love to learn more about how that works. everything they say about the setting always leads to more questions and I'm so far really enjoying it. same with the fold. and the (casual) anomalies. I love the whole stupid notary and valor thing they have going on. the big calculator machines with the beads. the stupid gala politics. I hope they get really into the bureaucratic weeds at some point, that would be delightful. I'm really excited to learn more about the world and the characters. I like the casual acknowledgement of the listener and that they're narrating a story. I wonder if the narrators have a part to play within the story themselves or if they just narrate it like that? also! spoilers for ep. 13 - I loovve whatever the hell Lark does to kill fuze. I love death scenes like that, it's very that one twilight zone episode.

excited to listen to more!

[iwritenarrativesandstuff]

what's the best manga that you would absolutely recommend to anyone?

also any tips on productivity/life in general

Hello again!

You know, I'm going to be honest, I actually haven't read that much manga at all. I'm planning to read more, but I'm probably not the best person to go to for manga recs atm, as what I've read is very limited.

Having said that, I am genuinely and shamelessly going to plug Trigun and Trigun Maximum. Please read the manga. I'm in love with the way the author writes and uses the art in incredible ways to tell the story. I'm enamoured with the characters and their struggles. I have had my heart broken and glued back together and I will never be the same.

I am also the wrong person to ask for productivity/life advice, sorry lol <- notoriously bad at doing things in general, even basic tasks.

A few points I can give are:

Make lists that you can check items off of when completing tasks. Break up large tasks into smaller ones so you can check more off! Also add even small things, like "make tea/coffee" or "eat breakfast" or "brush teeth". <- Even when I have very little energy and feel like I've done nothing, I can check a few basic things off and see that I'm at least still doing something, even if it's just the minimum to keep myself going (and there's nothing wrong with that!)

Drink water. I'm serious, please. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten lightheaded from forgetting to drink water. Don't be like me.

Find at least one thing that makes you feel simultaneously freer and in control of yourself. Autonomy really helps. You gotta find something that offers you at least a little. For me, it's writing, both fiction and analysis. A lot of artists feel this way, because art is fundamentally about expression. People always say "find a hobby", and I guess that's really what this is but... it's more like. You're going to hit points (at least) where everything around you is kind of out of your control. You need to find something you love and make it your anchor when things get rough. Work at it, master it - but remember, you don't have to be "good". It's not about "good", it's about enjoyment, and yes, a bit of self-discipline. It's about taking control of some small part of your life, even when the rest is uncontrollable. Does that make sense? Idk.

As for life advice, umm... I think it's really important to listen and keep learning, constantly. In science, you never truly prove hypotheses right. You can only prove them wrong. Hypotheses are accepted only because they do the best job of explaining the observations you see - if your observations no longer fit the explanation, then you need a new explanation. I adopt this when constructing my own views of right and wrong, and the way I see the world. Idk if that makes sense either. I hope so though.

[kirchefuchs]

(this is a long one lmao)

OKAY SO.

It was like 1am last night so I decided to sleep before sending this ahahahagsggs

ANYWAY

Regarding this wonderful reblog chain we had

(I don't know how and where to start ahahahahaaa)

hmmm. well, yk how I mentioned that The Eye of Michael (gasp. a rare instance where I don't forget a name??) took Stanley's voice? well, on the mask design I very much failed on, there was a clock (lmao TK reference) on the forehead part. originally, I wanted the mask to just be covering Stanley's mouth, because... duh. blud ain't got a voice no mo 😞✊ but anyway !!

(additional info: I took inspiration from a bunch of mask designs I found on Pinterest so it was very far from original)

the idea for the clock was for the ticking to be some sort of, uh, warning that he's nearby? like, just imagine finding yourself in an empty corridor, and all of a sudden, you hear a clock ticking in the distance. yeah, that's what I mean

(also I decided to change a bit of the backstory here. basically, The Narrator and Stanley are separate people. The Narrator was Some Dude™ who was in the middle of writing a story about—you guessed it—a man named Stanley. I already have his whole lore figured out but yk I'll cut it short for you so uhhhh blah blah blah The Eye of Michael finds him and encases him in a capsule where live wires that make him forget who he was before he became The Narrator are injected into his system. his voice is used as a way to trap and control Stanley—whose original identity/name was Jim (in this AU, at least)—and. yeah. The Narrator is trapped in a narrative facade whereas "Stanley" was the star of a lonely masquerade)

anyway, you can basically picture Stanley as wearing a full face mask or half of one, but either way, there's meant to be a clock somewhere and one of his eyes are meant to be covered in some sort of. uh. criss-cross threading technique. there's also the addition of some, uh, earphones? I think? they're not really that visible but uhh.. just think of them as the wireless ones, I dunno, I forgot what they're called, but anyway– Those are for The Narrator's voice. Just imagine a pair of. um. those things that help deaf people hear. wait.

HEARING AIDS. hearing aids, yes, uh, just imagine hearing aids, except that they're purposefully rigged to also provide a connection between The Narrator's voice and Stanley. It still functions like a normal pair of hearing aids, it just has the unfortunate annoyance of some angry British voice controlling Stanley's every move

As for the theme of his general outfit? I really wanted to make it fit the theme of the good ol "office worker" thing, so I had a little thought where Stanley pretends to be a tired worker at the start—wearing an ordinary face mask with the excuse of "trying not to breathe in the sand," as was written on a piece of paper (his lips/mouth is bruised as heck and the EoM did not want to take any more chances for instant suspicion), but during the times where Vash was alone, he'd (or, in this case, The Narrator would make him) wear his masquerade mask and put on some sort of blue (masquerade) outfit, with the cane that's totally not a sword/gun in disguise and all. With that being said, maybe the gang won't know his name until Wolfwood realizes who he is? I mean, Stanley can't talk, and. uh. sorry I'm going off-topic hahaa ahem anyway

maybe his title could be "The Masquerade"? not too sure but I like to think that he was trustworthy at first. anyway uhhhh that's about it! do whatever you wish with my two favorite brainrots :D and, sorry if I got a bit too-into the lore I made for him and The Narrator :')

— 🅰️non || Aug. 7 2023

This is gonna be a long one my guy....

🅰️non..... my dear beloved 🅰️non..... I don't know how to break this to you but the masquerade outfit, while a cool idea, is a flippin nightmare to try to translate into the Trigun universe. I tried so hard but it just want working.

Suffice it to say, venetian masquerade and space western do not mix

And it not for lack of trying! I have proof I tried!! The mask works, it's great! That's fine. But the clothes do not :(

I've got a lot of doodles here I gave up on cuz it just wasn't working. I kept having the problem where it either looked too pirate-y or too vampire-y, which is to be expected since masquerades were quite popular in the 18th century (the Golden Age of Piracy if I recall). And unfortunately, neither pirate nor vampire really scream "space cowboy times on desert planet"

Now.... this is an option....... and that is to forgo the masquerade outfit, the mask can stay, but I honest to goodness cannot make an outfit that works. So basically, my proposal for a solution would be to go with the aesthetic that pretty much every member of the Eye Of Michael has in 98 and Maximum. And that's the priest aesthetic.

You see, the Eye Of Michael has always been a religious group in universe, at the very least they pose as one. In reality they train orphans into mindess assassins, but they keep that church front. Hence why Wolfwood and Livio (and Chapel and the other EOM members in Maximum) have cross shaped guns. Also, fun fact Wolfwood was dubbed "The Punisher" because that was the name of his gun. I assume this would apply to Livio, and his guns are "Fangs" giving him the name "The Double Fang", and we know this applies to Razlo too, as he is "The Tri Punisher of Death" (you'd never guess, but he's got 3 Punishers :O).

Anyways, I did try drawing Stanley in the priest aesthetic, just to see if it worked. Make of it as you will.

I kinda imagine if we were to go this route, Stanley's cross would be a sniper rifle. He's already got a sort of stealth going for him, being mute and all, so I think it would fit. I could by no means draw said gun as I am only really good at drawing characters. But I can imagine the gun :')

Now, feel free to take my opinions and throw them in the trash if you don't like them, it's your character after all, it's up to you. But I do want to make it clear that I do love this idea so much and I wanna hear more of the story and how you think it would go. I'm curious if Stanley has a way to communicate back to the Narrator, because that could lead to some cool tandem character development. Like what if after Stanley starts wanting to break free of the Eye Of Michael, Vash agrees to help him free the Narrator as well. Since Stanley is mute, it could be cool if he communicated to the Narrator through his thoughts, so they would have to be on the same page for the escape plan to work. I mean, these are just my silly little ramblings, but this is all just to say that you've got a really good thing going here and I really wanna know more. I really hope my personal struggle with aesthetics doesn't bring you down, cuz I really truly love your idea here and I want it to work so badly.

But, yeah. I might end up drawing more at some point, cuz the idea is so cool and I just love all the story potential with Stanley being used by the Eye Of Michael like this. Anyways, I hope you have a good day, and sorry again for my inability to make the aesthetic work :')

[chibivesicle]

Dunno why you're harping so hard on the "muh mystery" aspect. A feature literally only existent in the 98 anime, because they added a shit ton of filler to make up for so little manga material at the time. The actual source material tells us this is all Knives's fault volume ONE! We know super early on why they're stuck here and who is at fault. The actual mystery the manga and stampede are setting up is not "who did it" but "why did knives do it"

Hello hello,

Yes, I'm one of those people who isn't happy with Stampede revealing a lot of information out from the get go. I 100% admit it. I think that this is going to be an issue for a lot of viewers, especially for people who have a high fondness for Trigun.

I think this comes from a lot of different places and combines in the general feeling of 'meh I don't like this as much'.  I’m surprised how quickly I saw the new series and was like ‘Noooooo!’ but didn’t even know why my immediate reaction was like this. 

1.) What was available at the time you watched the anime. When I watched the anime, it was on a fansub. The DVDs were released between 2000-2001 and the box set at the end of 2001. Therefore, this was all you could go on. If you wanted the manga it wouldn't be out until 2003 via Darkhorse in North America. You could have bought the current tankobons and then found a website where there was a text based translation of the speech bubbles. This was before the common use of fan scan translations. The ability to find a manga before it gets an anime was really freakkin' hard in the 80s and 90s. It was almost the reverse - you'd see the anime and then quest for the manga and hope it got picked up by a publisher who'd then publish it over several years.  They’d only gamble on a title if it already had a strong anime fanbase.

2.) The unique nature of the source material lead to an unusual but clever adaptation of that limited material. Studio Madhouse didn't have enough material for a full 26 episode run. They were brilliant to focus on a new point of view to introduce the viewer to the world. There is nothing wrong with a show that can be episodic, sure, we want stories with a plot driving them forward but episodic shows allow for more character development. The same situation happens, but characters behave differently and Trigun does this well. Having Wolfwood show up and hang out with the group from episodes 9-11 gives him more time to get to know them. The manga has Wolfwood and Vash as close friends, but before the Fifth Moon Incident they only rode on the bus together. Episodes 9-11 gives us more time for them to be dorks together and makes for enjoyable antics. 3.) The air of mystery fits in perfectly with the 'Western' genre. In the classic American Western, you frequently have a drifter who comes into town. He's a skilled gunman who never stays in one place but tries to stand up against injustice against the locals. He might be genuinely good. He may be on a redemption arc. He might be doing this for penance due his past deeds. Hell, he might just be bored.  What he does have is a mysterious past.

Trigun used this concept its advantage for the slow reveal of events. It went for a stronger ‘show, don't tell’ than either the manga or Stampede. Vash looks like a goofball drifter, why isn't he? What type of pain has he been through? How has he survived? This also worked for Wolfwood who won't reveal his full mystery either and the bits here and there in 9-11 add to it.  What is this traveling clergyman doing with a giant 100kg cross that he literally carries? Why would he accept carrying such a cross?  Why would he lie about being able to shoot a gun when he’s excellent at it?

4.) Meryl and Milly vibed with a Western audience more. I'm appalled at how Roberto is currently treating Meryl in the anime. It is setting up a different trope that didn't exist in the original anime or manga. I think a lot of women will not like this as much, the manga didn't have romance since Yasuhiro Nightow said he couldn't write it. But it means that the anime easily passes the Bechdel test which is good for female representation and motivations. I agree with the idea that Meryl and Roberto are written to be a much more culturally Japanese dynamic.  It honestly would make a lot of sense if they are trying to make this more of a domestic success than the original.  We’ll give it the gritty realism of the Japanese office culture!  That will resonate with people!  Maybe this brings in more Japanese women who sympathize exactly with Meryl now? 

I had no idea that Badlands Rumble was released in the States months before Japan.  It seems Trigun is like Escaflowne.  Saw great success outside of Japan but locally was a bit of a flop.  23 year old Meryl is just starting her career, but remember, women over 25 are ‘Christmas Cake’.  Past their best buy date and should be married.  And this is a term that exists in the present, not the past in Japan. 

Other people have hypothesized that Milly was eliminated due to her rare role as a canonically large girl who could take you on.  Other than the fact that she uses a non-lethal weapon, is the youngest child of 10, and the sweetest person ever.  I always loved her dress shirt, tie and suspenders look but it isn’t very ‘cute’ in a moe sense.

5.) Having a fresh comparison of the anime and manga.  With the Stampede hype, I watched the anime.  And then binged the manga.  Overall, I like the anime better.  It is more character driven, the pacing is right and the twists and turns work well.  The only weakness is the manga background lore is lacking but they more than compensated for it for the most part. 

I don’t generalize that I like a series based on a manga that the manga is inherently better than the anime.  Golden Kamuy was an anime that would have benefited from more of the manga chapters included for the first three seasons.  Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood was better with the full background from the manga.  Gintama messed around with content all the time deciding to move plot vs comedy.  Honestly, it always just depends on which one you ultimately prefer.  And I make this on a series by series basis.

6.) The power of nostalgia and a less saturated anime environment of the past. Now, you can essentially watch anime every day or read current manga for an entire year and not overlap with series other people are reading.  The 80s, 90s and very early 2000s were a sparse anime/manga ecosystem.  The internet wasn’t quite at your fingertips.  This then resulted in a more cohesive fanbase.  You all saw the same things due to limited titles to choose from.  Distributors in the States leaned hard into releasing more obscure OVAs since they were cost effective.  OVAs had more adult content than conventional titles so a bunch of us were exposed to some rather mature things likely before we should have.  A lot of 90s anime had that gritty feeling which I don’t think was an accurate representation for it across the board in the 90s but what made it internationally.  The first con I went to was full of Deedlit cosplayers. Why?  You could rent Record of Lodoss War at Blockbuster and it was a well known fantasy anime with a hot elf chick.  The hardcore people were the Inuyasha and Utena cosplayers since they’d not had a domestic release yet and were fansub/text only translation at the time.

With less titles to choose from, you spent more time on the limited series and really dug into them.  Thus, to the western fanbase, Trigun has risen to an important point on a lot of people’s lists.  Or it was the introduction to anime for a lot of people when my introduction had been series like Macross/Voltron/Sailor Moon/Ranma 1/2.  Were these ‘pure’ versions - nope but it was what slowly sucked me into more series. 

This also means that in this supersaturated environment, there is more competition for eyeballs.  Do you want to reboot a series that had modest niche success in Japan that was a blockbuster hit in the States?  You have the advantage of the series being complete now; you can draw from all the source material.  But it is a product of its time and the look can be easily dated to the mid-late 90s. 

There are two ways you go with this.  1.) The CLAMP approach - who cares about current styles and trends, we are gonna keep our chara design pretty standard for the original and that will give us our visual advantage.  2.) Adapt it to the current look - which I think is a gamble.  You lose your visual pop factor by making it look more current but it would appear how current series look so people might be willing to give it a shot not knowing the source material. 

With such high saturation, you end up with so many series with characters that all look similar.  I find this to make it hard to distinguish the isekai/fantasy/school set series and they just keep coming out.  I’ll watch a new anime and be like, ‘It was fine.’  but it will quickly blur into the next series that was just as ‘fine’ as that last one. 

In conclusion, I think all of these factors and likely more are why many fans who watched the original anime (and may have even read and enjoyed the manga as well) are so bummed out by this choice to put so many things up front.  That doesn’t necessarily mean that they will have time to fit in more characters and they may instead be swapping out characters for manga specific ones that weren’t written yet and dropping other manga and anime ones.  I have a gut feeling Midvalley will not appear.  If he does, I will be pleasantly surprised.

I think the reason why so many people love the slow reveal is that it rewards you for your time getting to know Vash.  And with other characters meeting him and wondering why he’s so weird it helps you to focus on it as well before the reveal of his origin.  From a narrative perspective it worked well and I think that contributed to why so many people love the anime and are fine with it if it was the only Trigun media they knew.

[ramblingcoyote]

Trigun Stampede thoughts

So far I am really enjoying Trigun Stampede. It's an interesting reimagining of the original story and the animation is stunning. The only things I'm kind of off on is the pacing of the show and certain points of Vash's character. I understand 12 episodes is a small amount of time to fit a lot of story in so I can understand them condensing story points to fit but I think the show could have also benefited with having slightly longer episodes. Then it wouldn't feel quite so rushing with each episode. But, they do still do a very good job of story telling.

The other thing is how Vash acts concerning his guilt and sadness. In the manga and 90's anime It was a point that Vash sometimes goofed around and acted silly as a way to cover how heavy he felt. Now the Stampede Vash does act a little silly at moments but it feels more like those moments where you'd figure he'd goof around a little, instead he sleeps. Don't get me wrong, it is very cute when he sleeps and I can see the idea of him constantly tired from all he goes/ has gone through but it just feels odd not seeing that particular character trait as much. Again, it might just be a writing point for the tone of this show but I am a little bummed not to see his style of humor coping because it was something I connected with with the character in the manga and 90's anime. The show is amazing, you can tell so much hard work went into it and I would definitely recommend it along with the original anime and the manga to see all the story lines and how they compare.

[alena-reblobs]

Trigun Bookclub Trimax Vol12 Part2

Vol01: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3  | Vol02: Part 1 | Part 2

Trimax: Vol01 Part 1Vol01 Part 2 | Vol02 Part 1Vol02 Part 2 | Vol 03 Part 1 | Vol03 Part2 | Vol04 Part1 | Vol04 Part2 | Vol05 | Vol06 | Vol07 | Vol08 Part1 | Vol08 Part2 | Vol09 Part1 | Vol09 Part2 | Vol10 Part1 | Vol10 Part2 | Vol10 Part3 | Vol10 Part4 | Vol11 Part 1 | Vol11 Part2 | Vol12 Part1 | Vol12 Part2

Continuation for chapters 4-6

Trigger warnings for suicide mention/ideas within the analysis.

Ok chapter 4 will just be a collection of awesome pages which is nearly every page of this chapter

Love how that coat is pointing back at him. Nightow also doesn't give a shit at how long it is in places. Looks cool and that's enough.

Battle glasses!! This shows he means business. Also makes his emotions harder to read and it feels a bit like him closing off again...

Followed by these pages...Vash almost looks strange. A bit creepy, even. Knives, if you tried to understand your brother for once, you'd see he's not actually that hard to read. Marlon gets it, too. You didn't even try.

I love Nightow's whole approach to this epic showdown between Vash and Knives. It takes its time, now even with the quietness before the storm...the atmosphere that's being created is just so tangible. Also, how cool that now it is Knives looking down at Vash, and not the other way around! Like it was most of the other time.

Oh nooo Vash felt that through their shared plant power, didn't he. Despite all that's been, that must've been an extra gut punch to Vash.

Beneath his coat, our man is made of legs, leather, and boot straps, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I think I read a post of someone saying some wise and intersting stuff about this page but I can't recall what it was about anymore...but I just want to say I love how Vash doesn't change what he is, for this final battle. He's always been a gunsman and damn pretty good at it. He's not going to transfor super-saiya-plant now, but stick to what he knows!

And their expressiooons...man this manga has so many great and varying expressions.

Chapter 5:

There's wisdom stored in the pages of Trigun that I probably cannot fully grasp with my sparse knowledge of life experience. We get so rarely any insight into Vash's thoughts, it's always something precious for me as a reader.

Love this panel!

Oh, he looks so incredibly tired. The fandom has been using the term 'Widower Era' for this flavour of Vash and it is so fitting.

Awesome page!! Again!!

It's really crazy how far gone Knives must have been at this point that even children don't mean anything to him...they are all part of this big threat called "humanity".

They are so young! And Vash looks so terrified..it's making me realize once more that this cool and powerful gunslinger started out as a "normal" boy, who had to become so powerful as a consequence of all that fucked up shit he went through...

asaasffsd yeah, he's not just prepared to die here, he's planning for it.

hehe pretty Vash panel in between (suprise: EVERY Vash panel is a pretty Vash panel!)

The widower era is a look that suits him but why is it so grimdark aah. Is that the solution you've come to, Vash? Is that really the only reasonable and possible outcome, and are you sure your concllusion has not been clouded by recent traumatic events?

Chapter 6:

This chapter is really where you get what Vash's power really is, isn't it? It's been shown that he can create these holes, but in July it was more an explosion, with the fifth moon as well, so this time feels like the first real mention of that black hole power!

Yes! Who is there to decide if humanity is good or evil, if it deserves to live on? If you must find a decision, at least hear the voices of those who had to suffer! And Knives never really tried listening to the other Plants..

Knives would have a blast with twitter and the youtube commentary section.

That story of that village is so sad, and just a great example of...accidents that just happen. Misfortune that causes people to be cruel to each other, without wanting to. This showdown between Vash and Knives, I love how it's not just them throwing cool catch up phrases at each others' head, but...it comes down to their core conflicts, and it touches topics that are so very applicable to real world conflicts, too.

Stupid stupid military shooting >:( The plants look in pain now, too!

And then...and then he's not fighting along!! <:') The friend squad is here for the rescue!! Finally, finally Vash is getting some help in his fight. He could and should have asked for it, but it's great they still came without him needing to.

Aww Meryl :DD These two are just so precious.

Oh I was just wondering if this is the commander feeling Chronica's aura like that time Wolfwood did feel Vash's during the fight at Home?

(At least she's not crying blood like Vash did, phew) but uh bye Domina :( You had your short, but sweet appearance!

[yuhi-san]

1, 2, 3, 4 for the ask game!!!

yeees thank you for asking!!

1 the last sentence you wrote

What’s killing the murderer parading around as a priest? The flowers of a rare sickness born of unrequited love slowly suffocating him or the effects of fucked up experimentation finally taking its toll, everyone take their bet!

2 a character whose POV you’re currently exploring

Wolfwood! he is the only pove in the story i have ready for vashwood week already and he's also the pov for well *points up* the hanahaki one. and also the newest few chapters of observations but we'll see if i post those or change some things

3 how you feel about your current WIP

tha hanahaki i only recently started, so we'll see about that. though i know all parts i want to write already. without spoiling it, i hope i can stick to the ending i have in mind. but its something i thought hanahaki in general and with the whole geranium thing going on in trigun i feel there are not enough fics exploring that so im excited

observations is currently on hiatus because while i like it, there is a lot of stuff i would like the gang around knives, meryl, vash, milly and wolfwood to do, i had to realize i can't put it all in one story so i am still figuring out what to put in and which darlings to kill, so to speak. i'm a little frustrated. cant do all i want. i have some chapters already ready but i am unsure what to do with them. it's mostly vash not having a good time and it shows how knives general attitude and unpleassantness is getting to him more than he wants to show. but if i open that can of worms, i don't feel like its something i can close in a few chapters either. so complicated i guess haha.

4 a story idea you haven’t written yet

hah! you know about the millyknives mermaid au! that i thought would be a fun one shot but i dont think it will be anymore lol. i really love mermaid aus and they fit trigung great with all combinations of human and merfolk and who is saving who but for some reason that one made me imediately think of millynai. the idea is that milly saves a injured knives (who i wanted to be a giant squid kind of mer but he'll be a sea serpent or oarfish because he'll be hard enough to deal with if he has three appendages rather than like, ten) and tends to him in her... bathtube. of course knives wont be very pleasant about it at first but that's not going to stop milly. i want to keep it on the fun and cute side, hopefully, despite knives being such a complainer. meryl and wolfwood are sure to make cameos, maybe even vash. still stuff to be figured out but i will definitely start that one after vashwood week

[not-poignant]

what would be ef's and arden's favorite episode of great british bake off? do they have other favorite shows outside that that they like to watch?

Hmm, I don't know what their favourite episodes are! That's not something they've seen fit to tell me. :D

Efnisien doesn't have any other favourite shows. It's talked about a bit in the beginning of the story, but he doesn't watch or own a television, and he doesn't know what he likes watching anymore, he only knows he shouldn't watch shows with any violence (and we get the impression that he doesn't like anime). Efnisien hasn't had the experience to have 'favourite shows.'

‘You want to watch some TV?’ Arden said.

‘Uh, I don’t really… I mean you can pick what we watch.’

Efnisien didn’t own a television. He hadn’t watched television growing up. If he wanted to watch things, he could look them up on the internet. He frowned, thinking about it. He went to the opera with Crielle, and sometimes he went to symphonies on his own. When everyone talked about the latest shows they were into when he’d been at school, he was usually watching for an opening. But most of the time he was studying, or fantasising about hurting people while sitting in the library.

As for Arden, he loves anime, and he tends to put it on for himself even when Efnisien's over, lol. I'd say his favourite shows are probably classic shounen, like Hunter x Hunter 2011, and things like Trigun, and Berserk, and stuff like that. He has a soft spot for Amaama no Inazuma. He probably likes a lot of Youtube crafting and hobby channels, but I doubt he ever has any time to watch them.

[chibivesicle]

Hey!

I know I’ve already left a few asks here(I just love your meta okay?) and I had an idea- I saw a comment on the r/Trigun subreddit that Stampede should have picked up where the 98 anime left off, and after reading your thoughts on how you would fix Stampede, here’s my idea; Trigun Stampede but instead of a “reimagining” it’s a direct sequel to the 98 series but pulls from Maximum and instead of just picking and choosing stuff it keeps MOSTLY faithful but reworks and maybe streamlines different parts so it fits in with the timeline of the 98 anime and where it ended, picking up where the last episode of the anime left off.

I just wanted to know your thoughts and how you would make it work?

Hello there,

Thanks for another question! I honestly, would have preferred a full redo of the manga, but maybe keeping the first 5 episodes of the '98 with world building "filler" episodes and then dove into a more manga accurate story. The beauty of those first 5 were it takes him until that 5th episode to draw his gun and fire. The build up and tension was perfect and matched the side story in the manga where Vash uses a target to perfectly hit people so they don't die. I however, would add in more non-canon plot points with Meryl and Milly to keep the magic sauce that was Vash, Wolfwood, Meryl and Milly. These are easy tweaks that could have been added into a refreshed version. Honestly, the quartet character dynamics was great.

The '98 anime did the best with what it could do, but a more streamlined less wandering version of Trigun Maximum would likely have resonated well with older fans. For example there were some random chapters that were action packed but really didn't serve the plot (especially around the Eye of Michael) and Wolfwood got some side chapters which did flesh out his character more but lead to further wandering. I think a major problem with this was the fact they either had to make a 12 episode series or 24 to match current broadcasting 'standards' which was not the case with the '98 anime operating on the considerably older model of the 26 episode season. Though in that case they were animating with cels and Studio Orange is 3D CG. I have no idea how the time/effort per episode compares.

With how long the manga was, I think Stampede needed at least 2 or 3 seasons (say minimum of the 12 episodes per season) or 2 seasons with the (12 + 12 combo like for Spy x Family etc. giving a total of 48 which, damn would likely get the job done).

It got the 'Cliff Notes' version of events and the weird pacing shows. The major problem is that the story never had time to breathe and it just needed to be longer so it could have a more natural progression. Too many things were blink and miss it or sure you totally got X b/c if you squint you'll understand a complex concept.

It is clear that the predominantly (American) English language fandom was expecting the FMA Brotherhood treatment. That was not this and I can honestly see how disappointing it was. For me, I rewatched it back in December and was pleasantly surprised at how well it held up and fun it was. Reading the manga filled in some gaps a but also left me confused and finding a more manga accurate anime would have made my happy. We all know this is not what happened. They went in a sci fi direction (confirmed by more than one interview of staff on the project) created a whole new world and concept. I have also really noticed but will have no stats to back this up; but there is a clear demographic divide on how Stampede was received. I hate to generalize, but it seems dudes who are mainly straight cis-het men, who watched the anime a long time ago (and are super anime watchers consuming way more than I do in short periods) seem to give it the most positive reviews. They say it seems the same, sure it looks different and they kinda sorta miss Milly but its fine otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong since those are also the people who - not surprisingly - have the loudest voices on the internet be it Youtube channels and general prominence. However, as soon as you shift to other viewers there is a lot more concern. Many women are upset at the poor female characterization across the board in Trigun where all of the women were made shadows of their former selves. None of my female friends who watched the original enjoyed what happened to the women in Stampede. Queer fans also seem to have a more negative view with so many of the gay, trans, non-binary aspects of the original cast now gone. [Legato, Elendira, Zazie] 'Cause Legato barely appeared and his huge crush on Knives is not the same as in the manga. Elendira - gone and Zazie hasn't gotten good characterization as well. I'm not saying all people of one demographic can be correlated with their feelings towards it, but it does seem to have general vibes. And it is hard to tell something like this without a statistically robust analysis but it is what I've noticed. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm toodling around in my small patch of the web but that's what I've observed. Not many straight cis het men are like, "Oh yeah, I really noticed how the female characters are either dead mother figures or cute uwu waifus or literal children. I wonder how other viewers who miss strong female representation now feel?"

I'm not here to stoke a culture war and virtue signal or anything like that. Nor am I falling into the woke SJW whatever you call it. I've sat through enough actual [and incredibly depressing] seminars about studies on the role of diversity and representation in fields (mine specifically being STEM) and when I learned that for women to have proper representation in biology textbooks, it would take another 100 years, I cringed. When you learned at the current rate it would take 500 years for black scientists to be properly represented - it - just - well, fuck. Feel free to think about this for any group that are not cis-het white men. And then feel icky and sad.

Now, is this fair to place such high standards on a product made in a specific cultural context for entertainment? I mean, likely not, the whole point is to have fun and make money through merch.

Buuuuuuuttttt . . . .

I know that diversity in media has a long way to go and it was sad to see a diverse manga lose that diversity in the more recent version. Until media companies and production studios and teams 'get it' they won't realize that there is a market for it. Which is hilarious since the original was way more diverse and interesting than Stampede. Seriously, why are there no black people in Stampede? This leaves me scratching my head in confusion since Kekkai Sensen has an even more diverse cast! Nightow clearly writes these types of characters on purpose. It didn't get lost when Bones did the first two seasons of Kekkai Sensen. Hell, the inherent diversity of Kekkai Sensen is literally written into actual dialogue in the chapter/OVA King of the King of the Restaurants.

I didn't mean to fall into a rabbit hole, but I'm really thinking there are going to be very different responses and 'fix-it' solutions for what fans had wanted to see or hoped they'd see with this. Okay, I'm going to shut up now. But yeah, I'd do a early '98 anime with manga hybrid as my reboot for Trigun.