#and the issue of reading words vs listening to different words

[wander-wren]

hi, calling all fanfic writers and readers and also people who have Made Videos for a little help with a potential project.

disclaimer: this is, as i said, very potential and still in the Shiny New Idea stage, i’m trying to determine feasibility at the moment.

so, you know speedpaints, right? as in, timelapsed drawing video with music or narration laid over it. consider the same thing, but with writing.

(the tentative term at the moment is speedfic, which has some precedent being used this way, because speedwriting means something else. but i digress)

the idea is that i would post timelapsed videos of me writing short fics and explain my process, probably focusing on specific elements like worldbuilding, character voice, plot, etc. i could also talk about planning, editing, and maybe some other general fanfiction topics.

this leads me to several questions. the main one, of course, is “would anyone else even be interested in this sort of thing?”

but assuming that answer is yes—there are some logistical issues inherent in doing this with words that aren’t caused by doing this with art, namely the “speed” and “narration” bits, and lots of other fiddly little things.

so i guess i’m just asking what writers/readers would want from a project like this, any preferences as far as video structure/length/content, just anything, really. before i go chasing the Shiny New Thing, i want to know if it’s worth it

[lurkingteapot]

Every now and then I think about how subtitles (or dubs), and thus translation choices, shape our perception of the media we consume. It's so interesting. I'd wager anyone who speaks two (or more) languages knows the feeling of "yeah, that's what it literally translates to, but that's not what it means" or has answered a question like "how do you say _____ in (language)?" with "you don't, it's just … not a thing, we don't say that."

I've had my fair share of "[SHIP] are [married/soulmates/fated/FANCY TERM], it's text!" "[CHARACTER A] calls [CHARACTER B] [ENDEARMENT/NICKNAME], it's text!" and every time. Every time I'm just like. Do they though. Is it though. And a lot of the time, this means seeking out alternative translations, or translation meta from fluent or native speakers, or sometimes from language learners of the language the piece of media is originally in.

Why does it matter? Maybe it doesn't. To lots of people, it doesn't. People have different interests and priorities in fiction and the way they interact with it. It's great. It matters to me because back in the early 2000s, I had dial-up internet. Video or audio media that wasn't available through my local library very much wasn't available, but fanfiction was. So I started to read English language Gundam Wing fanfic before I ever had a chance to watch the show. When I did get around to watching Gundam Wing, it was the original Japanese dub. Some of the characters were almost unrecognisable to me, and first I doubted my Japanese language ability, then, after checking some bits with friends, I wondered why even my favourite writers, writers I knew to be consistent in other things, had made these characters seem so different … until I had the chance to watch the US-English dub a few years later. Going by that adaptation, the characterisation from all those stories suddenly made a lot more sense. And the thing is, that interpretation is also valid! They just took it a direction that was a larger leap for me to make.

Loose adaptations and very free translations have become less frequent since, or maybe my taste just hasn't led me their way, but the issue at the core is still a thing: Supernatural fandom got different nuances of endings for their show depending on the language they watched it in. CQL and MDZS fandom and the never-ending discussions about 知己 vs soulmate vs Other Options. A subset of VLD fans looking at a specific clip in all the different languages to see what was being said/implied in which dub, and how different translators interpreted the same English original line. The list is pretty much endless.

And that's … idk if it's fine, but it's what happens! A lot of the time, concepts -- expressed in language -- don't translate 1:1. The larger the cultural gap, the larger the gaps between the way concepts are expressed or understood also tend to be. Other times, there is a literal translation that works but isn't very idiomatic because there's a register mismatch or worse. And that's even before cultural assumptions come in. It's normal to have those. It's also important to remember that things like "thanks I hate it" as a sentiment of praise/affection, while the words translate literally quite easily, emphatically isn't easy to translate in the sense anglophone internet users the phrase.

Every translation is, at some level, a transformative work. Sometimes expressions or concepts or even single words simply don't have an exact equivalent in the target language and need to be interpreted at the translator's discretion, especially when going from a high-context/listener-responsible source language to a low-context/speaker-responsible target language (where high-context/listener responsible roughly means a large amount of contextual information can be omitted by the speaker because it's the listener's responsibility to infer it and ask for clarification if needed, and low-context/speaker-responsible roughly means a lot of information needs to be codified in speech, i.e. the speaker is responsible for providing sufficiently explicit context and will be blamed if it's lacking).

Is this a mouse or a rat? Guess based on context clues! High-context languages can and frequently do omit entire parts of speech that lower-context/speaker-responsible languages like English regard as essential, such as the grammatical subject of a sentence: the equivalent of "Go?" - "Go." does largely the same amount of heavy lifting as "is he/she/it/are you/they/we going?" - "yes, I am/he/she/it is/we/you/they are" in several listener-responsible languages, but tends to seem clumsy or incomplete in more speaker-responsible ones. This does NOT mean the listener-responsible language is clumsy. It's arguably more efficient! And reversely, saying "Are you going?" - "I am (going)" might seem unnecessarily convoluted and clumsy in a listener-responsible language. All depending on context.

This gets tricky both when the ambiguity of the missing subject of the sentence is clearly important (is speaker A asking "are you going" or "is she going"? wait until next chapter and find out!) AND when it's important that the translator assign an explicit subject in order for the sentence to make sense in the target language. For our example, depending on context, something like "are we all going?" - "yes" or "they going, too?" might work. Context!

As a consequence of this, sometimes, translation adds things – we gain things in translation, so to speak. Sometimes, it's because the target language needs the extra information (like the subject in the examples above), sometimes it's because the target language actually differentiates between mouse and rat even though the source language doesn't. However, because in most cases translators don't have access to the original authors, or even the original authors' agencies to ask for clarification (and in most cases wouldn't get paid for the time to put in this extra work even if they did), this kind of addition is almost always an interpretation. Sometimes made with a lot of certainty, sometimes it's more of a "fuck it, I've got to put something and hope it doesn't get proven wrong next episode/chapter/ten seasons down" (especially fun when you're working on a series that's in progress).

For the vast majority of cases, several translations are valid. Some may be more far-fetched than others, and there'll always be subjectivity to whether something was translated effectively, what "effectively" even means …

ANYWAY. I think my point is … how interesting, how cool is it that engaging with media in multiple languages will always yield multiple, often equally valid but just sliiiiightly different versions of that piece of media? And that I'd love more conversations about how, the second we (as folks who don't speak the material's original language) start picking the subtitle or dub wording apart for meta, we're basically working from a secondary source, and if we're doing due diligence, to which extent do we need to check there's nothing substantial being (literally) lost -- or added! -- in translation?

[ac-liveblogs]

The interview between Kinoko Nasu (head writer at Type Moon) and David Jiang (producer Honkai: Star Rail) is quite interesting. Though Jiang is not a writer himself and he himself doesn't get involved in story creation, so I do wonder why he was talking with Nasu...

The interview was mostly about what's taken into account when creating FGO and HSR.

Honkai Star Rail's director is a huge Type-Moon fanboy and has always been influenced by the Fate series since he was a teenager - even/especially in Star Rail, while Nasu plays Genshin Impact and is currently playing the Belobog chapter in Star Rail.

And yes. Clara and Svarog are a reference to Illya and Berserker, we been knew.

There was some interesting commentary early on from Jiang that said that the story-writing and gameplay divisions worked separately, which caused issues early on that needed to be resolved. Receiving confirmation about this is interesting, because it would explain a lot of the issues present in Genshin Impact that are mostly absent in HSR - a world that feels totally divorced from the playable characters that live in it, and - up until Fontaine - a lot of playable characters feeling somewhat disconnected from the plot they're meant to be in.

It was also very interesting to see Jiang start talking about marketing, surveys, meeting modern trends, design vs generating revenue etc. versus Nasu talking about his thoughts as an author and the importance of prioritising your ideal creative vision even if you end up needing to take those things into account as well... and how FGO doesn't incorporate modern trends but instead tries to create something that will be meaningful to the players.

It was also extremely funny seeing Nasu talk about how meta wasn't an important factor in FGO (true) - he just wanted people to care about the characters, and Jiang going "oh yeah we do that too!" ...like a liar.

Something Nasu said in response to Jiang talking about how the character designers at HYV take surveys or add character elements that they think 'might attract a new user group' into consideration struck a chord with me though;

Nasu-sensei: This reminds me of an interview I read about "Street Fighter II," where the interviewer asked, "Why did the game include a character like Zangief?" And the response from the interviewee was, "Once you have a character like Zangief for comparison, characters like Ryu with an average physique become even more eye-catching." In other words, a creative work cannot only have popular characters. If we make a fetish black hole, the diversity of the world suffers.. In terms of results, even protagonist-like characters that are somewhat lacking in personality can have their own unique features.

Which speaks to an understanding of a need for variety in design and personality that HYV consistently fails to achieve. HYV has no characters like Blackbeard, Zhang Jue... or even Li Shuwen. It has pretty girls, pretty boys, and younger characters.

Jiang talked proudly about how HSR risks lowering their revenue by daring to include characters like Qingque and Guinafen in the hopes they might attract a new market, but Nasu says 'well, we think about the themes of our stories and what the characters need to be, as well as the kinds of characters we want to write'.

Nasu also plainly outlining the variety of different elements a writer needs to incorporate into a story - including the importance of each character having their own storyline to engage the players, super simple stuff! - is something I dearly hope HYV keeps in mind. HSR has less of an issue with these concepts than Genshin does, but there are several shared weaknesses between the two works.

I can only hope that HYV is taking notes instead of nodding like it already understands the things he's saying - because it does not, and it could stand to listen. I believe that the world Nasu created in Fairy Britain, despite having a lot less to it, is stronger than any single region in either Genshin Impact or Honkai Star Rail because it, the stories told in it and the characters there, are all thematically consistent and inform each other in interesting ways at all points during the chapter.

I think Belobog achieved a base level of cohesion, but Xianzhou Luofu was a shitshow and Penacony... better pick up soon. Haha. (Jiang describing Xianzhou Luofu as "captivating" though. Bro. Bro Xianzhou Luofu was terrible, what are you talking abou-)

I like reading Nasu talk about the writing process and the things he's enthusiastic about. I don't always like or agree with Type-Moon's decisions or products, but Nasu always strikes me as a down to earth guy that's truly passionate about what he creates and the works he consumes. Jiang seems to have had a lot less to say, though that seems to be because he is... as he himself admits, not a writer.

The two companies seem to have been in talks, so I'm curious to see what comes of it.

[disparition]

Whether you approach arts and media as a creator, a fan, a professional, or a hobbyist, you are probably very well aware of the rapid growth of AI in many areas of creative life and the conversation surrounding it. Whether we are talking about fiction or text of any kind, visual arts like painting and drawing, music composition and performance, sound design and audio editing - in all of these fields AI is something we now have to deal with, and there are many unanswered questions. How do we protect our livelihoods and practices as artists? What control can we have over our own work and its incorporation into machine learning tools and datasets? How do we as lovers of art and music determine if what we are reading, watching, or listening to is made by humans? Or how do we denote the particular degree of involvement of humans in a work of art?

It’s a complicated issue because it can be hard to say exactly where to draw the line. For example, well before the current conversation about AI, composers like Brian Eno were incorporating generative and algorithmic elements into their work. Does this mean such work is not “essentially human made”? Does it matter if the non-human components of a piece are created by randomness, or by natural elements gathered in e.g. a field recording, vs. being created by a computer program?

Those kinds of questions are more about the philosophical side of the issue. There are more pressing questions to do with how AI affects our ability to actually survive as artists. And, as the technology grows more powerful and the distinction between AI-generated or AI-enhanced material and human made material or basic documentation of reality itself, what methods do we use to signify that a given piece of media is or is not AI made, and what are the exact qualifications of that? Should the label “AI art” apply to work that is entirely generated by a computer, or should that label also be applied to any art that uses AI tools in any context - e.g. the new tools in Photoshop that make it easier to remove a specific object from an image and fill it in with background. What about the world of video games, where AI has been used for decades for things like pathfinding but is new and controversial when it comes to using it for story/dialog elements or certain visual assets?

We are, I think, still very much in the early days of all this, so it’s hard to come up with firm answers as the field changes so rapidly, but this is an essential conversation to be held now. I’ve been talking to a friend who put together a survey for an organization called Verified Human, who are looking specifically into the issue of how do we determine - going forward - whether a piece of art or media is “essentially human made”, and the question of how that should be communicated.

The idea of this survey is to gather as many points of view as possible for this conversation. I know a lot of the people that follow me here are artists and lovers of art, of all different kinds, and to me it is absolutely essential that creators of all kinds be involved in this conversation from early on. Please take a few minutes and fill out the survey via the link below, and if you are interested in helping out, please spread the word. And if you have any questions or would like to discuss, please feel free to contact me directly. Thank you.

https://forms.gle/BrSbGyq9wAyzwTa88

[ahoneesan]

Gas Geferens

my main issue with all the gock girlcock stuff is like, i think trying to make this ontological difference between Male Cock and Female Cock is at best cringey internalized homophobia and at worst like buying into the underpinnings of this farce we call gender too much. why is some girl so afraid of calling her penis a penis? is "penis" "cock" "dick" and all that, in fact, actually inherently masculine? so in order for there to be such a thing as a feminine penis, we have to break it out into its own category capital s Separate from Man Dick?youre conceding that that non-girl-dick is in fact a thing that Men have! i refuse to give them that! and of course once you start tying the word to peoples bodies you open up too many conversations about who Has a girlcock vs a "regular" cock. does a trans woman who hasnt started e yet have a girlcock? what about someone who doesnt transition? if some chicks dick doesnt atrophy enough does it ever transition with her? etc etc. why open up all these questions and pitfalls when you could just not, by continuing to call your dick what it is: a dick.

theres also the angle of the like, Set Apart-ness of transwomanhood. i think historically of the dykes who began to believe that lesbianism made them purer, nobler, better than their straight counterparts. that being a queer girl just made you more innocent and above reproach, that lesbianism exists in world of sexuality thats just capital d Different from the gay boys or whatever. dykes have just as many problems, maybe not all the same problems, but plenty of em nonetheless. maybe its all hand wringing on my part but theres an echo of that in girldick for me. i dunno. were all made of the same meat.

so those are my angles. i dunno that anyone actually cares about this outside of The Joke but i did want to write something slightly longer about it so here it is. clearly the answer to all this is that dick refers to trannies and everyone else has boydick. thanks for listening.

(AUTHORS NOTE: obviously im not talking about girls with genital trauma. im also not talking about calling your dick a clit. thats awesome. theres something very specific im getting at here. read with care!)

[dontbotherwiththepronunciation]

I really wish we could talk about Jeyne bullying Arya without people going completely feral, because as someone who was bullied (tragicomically involving the nickname "horseface" and even neighing when I walked by), and who can't even watch high school comedies like mean girls without wanting to die, I feel like it's so reductive to deny any possibility of conflict between the Arya-Jeyne-Sansa dynamic that is more than "mean girls vs pretty-but-doesn't-know-it-yet-girl situation" or "violent paranoid schizophrenic with a persecution complex feels victimised by girls who actually do their schoolwork" while still acknowledging Jeyne as a bully and Arya as a victim.

Jeyne is such a weird character to me, because I never feel this attached to the archetype she embodies.

And still, her dynamic with the two Stark sisters is interesting and the confusion in fandom is COMPLETELY fascinating and borderline triggering to witness, because it reminds me a lot to how a class of high schoolers reacts to *gasps, looks around to see no one is listening and whispers* bullying *lightning and thunder strike on the background to signify the gravity of such a word*.

Person A: What? What are you talking about?! She is exaggerating everything! Sansa never called her that! It was only Jeyne and I bet she only did it once! Person B: Oh, no it was just Jeyne who did it. Sansa told her to stop, but she just kept at it because she is less educated. Person C: No, Jeyne was actually just doing it to impress Sansa. Sansa is the real villain here. DontbotherwiththepronunciationIn2013: I don't think "bullying" is the right term. It's not that bad, Arya should get over it. It was just hurtful teasing.

Now I realise that "hurtful teasing" is in fact bullying.

So, if going by canon:

I think Jeyne came up with the name "Horseface".

I think Jeyne used to neigh at Arya when she was passing.

I think Sansa probably used that name at some point in her life or maybe multiple times.

I think that silence bestows. I think inaction can be encouraging more action. I think passiveness can be as harming as aggressiveness.

I do NOT however think that neither Jeyne nor Sansa are inherently despicable evil people for bullying Arya. I think they are still children. I think, like in most situations involving bullying and children, it's the adults who are at fault for not putting a stop to it, and sometimes even encouraging it.

Before starting to rant, I want to say:

I don't consider myself an expert on any of these characters!!!!!

So if I'm saying something disproportionately wrong in the following, I am open to being corrected.

With that said, I think this is a network of issues, most of them involving socioeconomic classes and period-compliant misogyny. I think it might look like this:

I know that focussing on this is a little pointless because the three main actors involved in this have been violently removed from the situation, (and most of the remaining cast is dead) but at the same time their possible future reunion will be even more violent and they probably won't even have time to cope.

And I can't sleep and I feel horrible and I already drew that dumb mind-map on my phone.

So, I'm starting with the least tangled component in this thing.

Ⅰ. The passive perpetrator, Blind Beth Cassel

To her sister and sister's friends and all the rest, she had just been Arya Horseface. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

I have loved the "Blind Beth" concept since I first read it.

It's so interesting to me how the most Beth interested part of fandom is the Theon corner, yet in the entire Arya-Sansa narrative she barely appears and rarely in meta. The closest I've come to find analysis on Beth & Sansa was in this gorgeous collage highlighting them as victims of violence from different sources in ACOK, but asides from that, there isn't much there. And at least with Sansa I can understand it. Sansa doesn't think of Beth once in the entire books. Arya on the other hand names one of her many identities after Beth and I think the characteristic chosen to describe that persona was a very smart and painful reminder from GRRM.

Arya thinks of Beth Cassel in two occasions. Once in AGOT, when we first meet them,

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear. "What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. "Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm." Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. - Arya I, AGOT

AND once in Braavos, when she is thinking of her life a Winterfell,

"Beth." She had known a Beth once, back at Winterfell when she was Arya Stark. Maybe that was why she'd picked the name. Or maybe it was just because it went so well with blind. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

Our first assumption as readers to the name "Beth" going so well with "blind" is because it is an alliteration. Who doesn't love alliterations? Tell me you don't love Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with all it's stylistic devices! They are lovely. And perhaps "Blind Beth" is only one of GRRM's alliterations acknowledged by a character.

Or perhaps "Blind" and "Beth" also go so well with each other, because apparently, and basing this from Arya's POV (the only one involving Sansa, Jeyne & Beth all together), Beth is a passive perpetrator. The typical class mate who pretends not to see the bullying and the way it affects the victim. The one who is decent or even kind when alone, but alienating when they are accompanied by a group.

I have seen certain takes claiming that Arya's POV in AGOT isn't a reliable source when involving the dynamic between her and the other girls in Winterfell.

That is possible, but she is our only source. As said, Sansa doesn't ever think of Beth, so if I want to examine her it has to be through Arya's eyes.

I would like to take the scene in AGOT once again and look at it more closely this time.

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear.

The object composition is so carefully placed that I find it difficult to believe it is not supposed to have a meaning. Jeyne whispers into Sansa's ear, an image I often associate with a political advisor plotting or scheming with the ruler they serve (which she will remind me of again in future AGOT chapters). Beth has a lower position in the hierarchy She is sitting at Sansa's feet, completely enthralled to whatever it is Sansa says. She probably seeks her approval.

(There is this very sweet art depicting the image of Sansa, Beth and Jeyne and even if I kind of feel guilty for reading the scene as them alienating another girl and still enjoying the art, I still want to share it because it's very cute.)

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered.

Jeyne's reaction is alienating. She giggles and denies Arya the knowledge behind that sudden laughter. It always reminded me a little of how Theon's smiles are often described contemptuously, probably because people tend to think he is actually laughing/smiling at them. They think he is mocking them. I don't think this is something completely involuntarily. I think Jeyne knows that giggling when Arya is asking to be integrated to the group is painful to her. Sansa is described to look "abashed" which I take as uncomfortable. I thinks she is aware this is mean spirited. She still doesn't do anything, but she is at least "abashed". Beth seems to follow this reaction but her description is only physical, not necessarily tied to an explicit emotion. Still, they collectively refuse to include Arya into the conversation.

"Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm."

Arya has to insist to be accepted as part of the group. It is not Sansa who acts as the typical "Queen Bee" and grants her that privilege, but Jeyne. Jeyne is the one who speaks in a slightly haughty manner. Only after getting Jeyne's implicit permission does Beth make a comment. She is not described with any type of rancour by Arya.

Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words.

This is an interesting passage to me, but not because of Beth as a passive perpetrator, but because this is the first time I can think of where we are confronted with another monster that will play a role in here, the green-eyed beast;

Ⅱ. Envy

Not it's more mild mannered cousin jealousy that gets spoken of more in fandom, but envy!

Jealousy is usually seen as a less malevolent feeling, but the term is often used when actually referring to envy, so I will clarify that jealousy could be defined as a feeling of defensiveness and protectiveness over what you think to be yours and feel threatened or fearful of possibly losing it.

Envy is not protective or defensive, its offensive. It is a feeling of resentment over what another person or group has - be it a a material possession, a skill, or an emotional bond - and you feel you lack.

And oh boy, there is a lot of envy oozing from that medieval class room, some it more legitimate than other, but all felt.

Before continuing I want to clarify that Arya’s very real pain and low self-esteem, and the cruel ways in which Sansa sometimes treats her during AGOT shouldn't be dismissed as "deserved" or "exaggerated" because of her envy.

Ⅱ. Ⅰ. ARYA'S ENVY

Probably the easiest to locate.

In the formerly mentioned passage we see Arya being envious of Sansa. I would argue it's not up to interpretation since "with dull resentment" makes it very clear to me, but there is also tenderness. I don't think Arya hates Sansa, or at least not in that moment.

Something curious about envy is that it's not an entertaining sin. It's damaging not only to those you envy, but perhaps mostly to yourself. It is self-poisoning. And I think that during that scene Arya, isn't manifesting her envy. She very rarely verbalises it, instead she swallows her own anger and keeps it inside her. I couldn't find any passages where envy is the driving force on the few occasions Arya hurts Sansa. The closest I came to that is:

Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa's attention. "Here," she said, surrendering up her work. - Arya I, AGOT

But even then, her envy only hurts herself.

Arya longs to be like Sansa. She wants to be considered as pretty as Sansa, she wants to be as skilled as her sister and to feel accepted by the other girls in the group.

It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward. - Arya I, AGOT

I find it curious how Arya starts off listing skills, yet the thing that pains her the most is related to her appearance.

What starts as painful envy becomes a self deprecating chuckle and later maybe even a half-optimistic outlook on her own strength. Arya recognises that she is not worthless or fully inferior to her sister. She is able to find qualities in herself and they way she does is endearing. She internally even makes fun of Sansa for not being as good as she is in this one little thing.

Sadly she is still aware of how in the eyes of most, Sansa is the one deemed worthy of admiration and emulation, while the best Arya can get is pity.

The septa examined the fabric. "Arya, Arya, Arya," she said. "This will not do. This will not do at all." Everyone was looking at her. It was too much. Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. Even Princess Myrcella looked sorry for her. Arya felt tears filling her eyes. She pushed herself out of her chair and bolted for the door. - Arya I, AGOT

And Arya's envy doesn't come from simply being Arya, it comes from Arya not being seen as a valuable person by Westerosi society and, in my opinion, most importantly, by her mother.

I refer to the parent-child relationships on the whiteboard as "perceived", not because I deem them false or delusional, but because I've seen a lot of debate going around this topic and whether the favouritism is true or not and I don't know what to believe and honestly I don't care too much about it.

At this part of the conflict we don't really need to know if the Ned-Arya and Cat-Sansa favouritism is true or not. We just need to know that both girls feel some insecurity over their bond with their parents and feel envy.

Personally, I think both Stark parents love all their children deeply, it's just that love sometimes isn't perceived the way we want it to.

Both of her parents had conventional expectations for Arya, but it seems to me that Catelyn was the one who upheld these expectations while Ned acted more permissive. Eddard still intends for her to lead a life that is typical to that of a Lady,

"[...] And it is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too." - Catelyn II, AGOT

But it's not Eddard who Arya is terrified of:

It was worse than Jon had thought. It wasn't Septa Mordane waiting in her room. It was Septa Mordane and her mother. - Arya I, AGOT

And it's not Eddard whom Arya often fears being rejected by or disappointing.

Her father tells Arya she remembers him of Lyanna, a woman who is not only remembered as beautiful but also as loved and desired, and also shared some of her interests, such as swordsmanship.

Her mother though..

"Sansa's work is as pretty as she is," Septa Mordane told their lady mother once. "She has such fine, delicate hands." When Lady Catelyn had asked about Arya, the septa had sniffed. "Arya has the hands of a blacksmith." - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. - Catelyn II, AGOT

“…my hair’s messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard.” Robb wouldn’t care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out.“ - Arya VII, ASOS

Her mother used to say she could be pretty if she would just wash and brush her hair and take more care with her dress, the way her sister did. - The Blind girl, ADWD

And a recurring pattern in those lines is a comparison to Sansa, the sister who is not constantly failing at fulfilling society's expectations on her. The sister who she wishes she could emulate while also staying true to the person she is. The sister who seems to act as a passive perpetrator of Jeyne's bullying and sometimes acts cruel herself.

Ⅱ. Ⅱ. SANSA'S ENVY AND EMBARASSEMENT

When I first read AGOT, I didn't like any of the Stark sisters. I actually think the only Stark I liked back then was Bran. I was about as old as they were, had my own issues with internalised misogyny and thought both of them were a little annoying. My views on both of them during AGOT have changed A LOT in the past ten years and while I like who they become as the books move n, much more than I like who they were at the beginning, I've become very fond of their AGOT selves. And I think they are children! Children make mistakes! Children are shallow and impulsive and hedonistic.

So, I don't think Arya is the only person here who has a few negatives feelings about her sister.

More than envy I think Sansa feels second-hand embarrassment by Arya's behaviour and wishes she wouldn't be associated with her, and this is something Arya is aware of.

She was barefoot and dirty, her hair tangled from the long run through the castle, clad in a jerkin ripped by cat claws and brown roughspun pants hacked off above her scabby knees. You don't wear skirts and silks when you're catching cats. Quickly she lowered her head and dropped to one knee. Maybe they wouldn't recognize her. If they did, she would never hear the end of it. Septa Mordane would be mortified, and Sansa would never speak to her again from the shame. - Arya III, AGOT

Arya looked down at her ragged clothes and bare feet, all cracked and callused. She saw the dirt under her nails, the scabs on her elbows, the scratches on her hands. Septa Mordane wouldn't even know me, I bet. Sansa might, but she'd pretend not to. - Arya V, ACOK

And we also see Sansa wanting to deny association between her and her sister multiple times during AGOT:

Why couldn't Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a sister like that. - Sansa I, AGOT

"Send Arya away, she started it, Father, I swear it. I'll be good, you'll see, just let me stay and I promise to be as fine and noble and courteous as the queen." - Sansa III, AGOT

"[...]I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son." "I'm not like Arya," Sansa blurted. "She has the traitor's blood, not me. I'm good, ask Septa Mordane, she'll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey's loyal and loving wife." - Sansa IV, AGOT

Envy is something less present in Sansa's case, but I dare to think there is still a little of it lingering in her feelings. As if we had a cross involving affections and what is perceived by each Stark sister as a special relationship or favouritism between their fraternal foe and a respective parent.

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

There is envy perhaps not of the relationship itself, but of the liberation that comes with it, but I don't even think this is actually Eddard's fault, I think this has more to do with the overall social conditioning of girlhood in Westeros and with another adult.

Ⅱ. Ⅲ. SEPTA MORDANE AND THE SOCIAL CONDITIONING

Septa Mordane sees Sansa as an exemplary student and she has reasons to do so. Sansa is a good and well mannered girls who fits into the model Septa Mordane is trying to shape the girls into. She performs her assigned gender roles with grace and is willingly doing so. Sansa enjoys being a Lady, it makes her feel worthy and it allows her to daydream and enjoy romantic hobbies like poetry or singing.

Arya doesn't. Partially because she rejects that model, partially because she id rejected by that model. I don't know what came first.

And yet, Sansa also sometimes seems to feel encaged by that model and by the Septa's teachings. And often, when Sansa does something that contradicts this model of conduct that she usually likes following, her thoughts go to Arya. She compares herself or gets compared to Arya, not necessarily in a pejorative manner, but almost seeing her sister as a little devil on her shoulder.

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, and Sansa went to bed that night feeling almost as wicked as Arya. - Sansa III, AGOT

Sansa sighed. "They rode with Lord Beric, to behead Ser Gregor Clegane." She turned to Septa Mordane, who was eating porridge with a wooden spoon. "Septa, will Lord Beric spike Ser Gregor's head on his own gate or bring it back here for the king?" She and Jeyne Poole had been arguing over that last night. The septa was horror-struck. "A lady does not discuss such things over her porridge. Where are your courtesies, Sansa? I swear, of late you've been near as bad as your sister." - Sansa III, AGOT

"It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell." She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. - Sansa IV, AGOT

And who is usually disapproving of Arya's ways and telling her she puts them to shame?

Septa Mordane called after her. "Arya, come back here! Don't you take another step! Your lady mother will hear of this. In front of our royal princess too! You'll shame us all!" - Arya I, AGOT

And knowing how much Sansa cares about the way she is perceived by others, I can imagine Sansa thinking in frustration that it's unfair she gets reprimanded for these type of things when Arya does them all the time without realising that Arya suffers constantly because if it. It's just that they are less common in Sansa, so people are more surprised and "hopeful" of rectifying them. Septa Mordane almost looks at Arya as a lost cause. When she nags at Sansa it's because she wants to avoid Sansa becoming another lost cause.

And it's not that Septa Mordane is an evil witch trying to make Arya's life impossible. As much as I dislike Eddard Stark, I agree with him. This woman is just doing the job he and Cat tasked her to do. It's that she is part of an institution where girls like Arya aren't as valued as girls like Sansa.

Personally, I think she is one of the people carrying the most responsibility over Arya's bullying. I wouldn't say she participates in it, but she enables it.

During AGOT Arya describes Septa Mordane in an unflattering way and it is one of the few occasions where I don't think I should fully trust her POV, because yes, this woman is antagonistic to Arya, but I don't think she hates her.

"Septa Mordane is beside herself with fear. She's in the sept praying for your safe return." - Arya III, AGOT

I think, in her own flawed way, she is trying to "help" Arya adapt into conventional views of gender and Arya is having none of that (good for her!).

"Just where do you think you are going, Arya?" the septa demanded. Arya glared at her. "I have to go shoe a horse," she said sweetly, taking a brief satisfaction in the shock on the septa's face. Then she whirled and made her exit, running down the steps as fast as her feet would take her. - Arya I, AGOT

"Pray, where do you think you are going, young lady?" Septa Mordane asked. "I'm not hungry." Arya found it an effort to remember her courtesies. "May I be excused, please?" she recited stiffly. "You may not," the septa said. "You have scarcely touched your food. You will sit down and clean your plate." "You clean it!" Before anyone could stop her, Arya bolted for the door as the men laughed and Septa Mordane called loudly after her, her voice rising higher and higher. - Arya II, AGOT

Arya spun around, with Needle in her hand. "You better not come in here!" she warned. She slashed at the air savagely. "The Hand will hear of this!" Septa Mordane raged. "I don't care," Arya screamed. "Go away." - Arya II, AGOT

Poor woman is so frustrated with her job she one day passes out drunk on the table.

And I think Sansa suffers under her too, not because she dislikes the customs and views on femininity - she often recalls on Septa Mordane's teachings in moments of emotional need (Lady's armour is courtesy, find the beauty in every man) - but I think that as readers we can see how those are harming for her too.

"I've never seen an aurochs," Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen. Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. "A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table," she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa cried as Septa Mordane marched them down the steps. They were going to take it all away; the tournaments and the court and her prince, everything, they were going to send her back to the bleak grey walls of Winterfell and lock her up forever. Her life was over before it had begun. "Stop that weeping, child," Septa Mordane said sternly. "I am certain your lord father knows what is best for you." - Sansa III, AGOT

That one last passage drives me wild when it comes to Jeyne Poole and you'll see why later.

So basically, Septa Mordane antagonises Arya for her failings as her student. The class (Beth, Sansa & Jeyne) emulates the teacher's disapproval and distaste, Sansa feels embarrassed by association and Jeyne Poole takes advantage of the situation and targets Arya.

And now I can finally get to the true object of my obsession here, beloved middle school mean girl:

Ⅲ. Jeyne Poole and her many mixed emotions

As said, I feel so weird about my love for this girl. People call Theon a "poor little meow meow" but when I first read these books I didn't see him as an anti-hero/minor-villain during ACOK, but more of my avenging hero. I had tears of rage when he was threatening to hang Beth but I was also weirdly cheering for him. Jeyne on the other hand, she is my poor little meow meow! She is my problematic fave! And she makes me cry like crazy and I hope she has the happiest ending in these goddamn books.

I probably feel more attached to her than I feel to Arya and Sansa. I don't understand this. Anyway, I have two possible assumptions for why Jeyne is always antagonising Arya. And yes, she IS ANTAGONISING Arya, even when Arya is no longer there.

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had told Arya that he'd cut him up in so many pieces that they'd given him back to the butcher in a bag, and at first the poor man had thought it was a pig they'd slaughtered.  - Arya II, AGOT

It was all her fault, everything bad that had happened. Sansa said so, and Jeyne too. - Arya II, AGOT

"I saw your sister this afternoon," Jeyne blurted out, as if she'd been reading Sansa's thoughts. "She was walking through the stables on her hands. Why would she do a thing like that?" - Sansa III, AGOT

"I will be a better wife than the real Arya could have been, he'll see." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

"Arya Underfoot. Your sister used to call you Arya Horseface." "It was me made up that name. Her face was long and horsey. Mine isn't. I was pretty." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

You know, this entire thing started because I wanted to make a stupid joke but then I got more emotional and invested into this as I wrote, and now we are here and I don't even remember the actual joke I wanted to make so I have to improvise with the thing above.

I don't believe this is true either. There are absolutely no canon indications for Jeyne to have had been dealing with comphet and bullying Arya because of a crush (there is a rather fun fanfic though!) (and there is another but with angstier and subtler vibes and it's Theyne + Jeynsa). Although, in my opinion, there are a few other things; like class envy and projection!

Ⅲ. Ⅰ. JEYNE POOLE'S CLASS ENVY

I think hers is the most obvious case of envy, but unlike the envy between the Stark sisters it doesn't come from a place of emotional insecurity, but of socio-economical discomfort.

That is why I included "Beric Dondarrion" [insert highborn lord/knight] in that mind map.

Jeyne isn't envious of Arya's relationship with Ned Stark and much less of her skills. Jeyne is envious, and perhaps even particularly resentful, of the fact that Arya is offered AND rejects what Jeyne wishes but will always stay out of her reach.

I have joked about Jeyne's crush on Beric (and her possible implied crushes on Robb & Theon) in the past but I don't think I ever mentioned the class envy when doing so.

When [Jeyne] saw young Lord Beric Dondarrion, with his hair like red gold and his black shield slashed by lightning, she pronounced herself willing to marry him on the instant. - Sansa II, AGOT

She had seen Jeyne Poole giving [Robb] moist-eyed glances, and some of the serving girls, even ones as old as eighteen… - Catelyn XI, AGOT

"Help me." [Jeyne] clutched at [Theon]. "Please. I used to watch you in the yard, playing with your swords. You were so handsome." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

All the men she seems to at some point in her life experience some form of attraction for, even if it is that of a child, it's a puppy crush, just infatuation, are people she would never have a chance with. Two (theoretically) future lord paramounts and a marcher lord. All of them unachievable to a steward's daughter. And with that in consideration, let's look at this:

Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?" "You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there. - Eddard V, AGOT

And I wonder how frustrating that must feel to Jeyne. To see someone who she deems as inferior in skills and manners because of the conditioning they've gone through under Septa Mordane's tutelage, someone who she considers beneath her, be offered and forced things she desperately wants and will never get.

Hell, Jeyne even manifests some juridical administrative knowledge and argues with Sansa about it, something she won't get to do as an adult woman, while Sansa and Arya will rule (their husband's) castles.

"Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." [...] "Ser Ilyn's the King's Justice, not Ser Loras," Jeyne said. "Lord Eddard should have sent him." - Sansa III, AGOT

Not that any of them would be good at ruling anything, they are all middle schoolers at this point, but I think she could have felt vexed at constantly seeing Arya reject all that she wishes she could have for herself.

Please don't misunderstand me, that is still not a valid reason to bully Arya.

There are no valid reasons to bully a child.

But there are reasons behind Jeyne's mentality and actions, and I think some of those reasons come from a sense of resentment over how "easy" things are for Arya because of her status as Lord Stark's daughter.

As Arya Stark, Jeyne's dreams come true, she marries the future paramount Lord of Winterfell and twisted wish fulfilment is one hell of a drug and not one strong enough to numb the pain! And to add insult to injury, the real Arya gets to spend a significant amount of time accompanying Beric Dondarrion and his band of merry men. I fucking hate this!

And while I think that this is the main aspect of Jeyne bullying Arya, there is something more which I haven't seen written elsewhere and I am willing to admit it could be a sketchy interpretation, but I would like to talk about it anyway because it's MY inane post and I get to choose the straws I grasp at!

Ⅲ. Ⅱ. JEYNE POOLE'S LOOKS

We don't have a lot of physical descriptions for Jeyne. Her eyes are the most remarkable feature about her, being described as big, brown and expressive by Theon and Jaime. Sansa and Holly consider her pretty. Theon calls her beautiful, but only when prompted by Ramsay and it's not very believable. In his thoughts he previously claims she is no longer pretty because of the slashes on her back. I don't know how seriously he means this, but I find it remarkable. Asides from that she is described as a skinny, pale, brown haired girl. She describes herself as formerly pretty but not beautiful and when doing so compares herself to Sansa and sees herself as the lesser of the two. And yet, the entire ruse she is later involved in with this pseudo-karmic punishment, is based on her looking similar enough to Arya or the Stark look to pass as one. I always thought it was so extremely funny how defensive she gets when she claims her face isn't horsey, at the mere mention of the "horseface" nickname, even without Theon telling her she looks horsey.

I don't know. It is probably that I'm looking into this with more depth than I should simply because of...obvious reasonsfsgfgsfsghgdnfjdhdf, but who sometimes makes remarks about the Stark look being one of bastards and plain-looking-people?

[Arya] even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered.- Sansa I, AGOT

My lord father found some skinny northern girl more or less the same age with more or less the same coloring. - Jaime IX, ASOS

"You [Arya] ought to marry Hodor, you're just like him, stupid and hairy and ugly!" - Sansa III, AGOT

Imagining little Sansa Stark going to vent to little Jeyne Poole after having an argument with her sister and making a perhaps not even genuinely meant comment about little Arya Stark's looks and Jeyne just sitting there mentally competing against Stannis Baratheon in who can grind their teeth the hardest.

While there are no instances of Sansa calling Arya "Horseface" she sometimes remarks to herself and to her sister that she thinks Arya is ugly and looks like a commoner.

And who has class insecurities and also seems to look similar to Arya?

"Jeyne, Jeyne, it rhymes with plain..." I can already imagine her whispering that to herself if she ever hears Theon's rhymes.

"I was never beautiful like Sansa, but they all said I was pretty. Does Lord Ramsay think I am pretty?" - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

The only thing Jeyne seems to really have going for her compared to Arya, the thing that could miraculously elevate her, are her looks and even those pale compared to Sansa. As said, she is described as pretty by some, but not beautiful.

In my opinion, the text doesn't really describe Arya as ugly. It is somewhat left up to interpretation since, while Sansa, Cat, Theon and Arya herself give us the impression she might be, there are also textual comparisons to Lyanna and even people who didn't know her think of Arya as beautiful (Lady Smallwood), but since these girls grew up the way they grew up...

I can imagine Jeyne feeling like her "prettiness" is the one thing she thinks can be used to make her more valuable in Westerosi society, and in order to keep that idea of herself being prettier than Arya, she has to make sure Arya doesn't feel good about her looks, so she calls her horseface.

And, if going by this entire text that I've been writing because I am stupid, that is also completely self-destructive and tragicomical !!!

Basically I think it is possible that Jeyne is projecting her own insecurities regarding her looks and her overall sense of inferiority compared to Sansa unto Arya.

And Jeyne has reasons to feel inferior to Sansa beyond simply the class hierarchy and the possible feeling of unattractiveness, because - and now I will get blocked by another load of people if this is read- Sansa is not very good at being a friend to her!

Ⅳ. The Sansa-Jeyne Dynamic

This is one of those things that completely baffles me, same as the Theon-Robb dynamic, where I have no idea how it is possible that my perception in the past ten years has been so drastically different from the majority of the fandom. And I swear to god, I've tried to change my perspective, I read metas, I tried fanfics, and I still don't get it.

This years Sansa month dedicated an entire day to Jeyne Poole.

Someone who is not very well acquainted with the books would probably assume Jeyne Poole is a very important girl in Sansa's narrative based on that information. They'd probably be surprised to find out that, since the two girls were separated, Jeyne Poole is remembered a total number of four times by Sansa Stark.

Sansa thinks of Jeyne Poole a total of four (4) times since AGOT.

In the span of four books in which both Stark sisters go through terribly drastic changes in their lives, Arya thinks of the girl who bullied her three times.

Sansa who loves and misses Jeyne thinks of her four times.

And you are telling me that she is so important to Sansa that she deserves an entire day dedicated to her? And everything that is created in that day is about how Sansa loves her so much and cares for her tremendously and will protect her?

PERSON D: It's because Sansa is traumatised. It pains her too much to think of her. Not thinking of her is a coping mechanism.

"She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. The septa had lost her head with the rest, for the crime of serving House Stark. Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. She tried not to think of them too often, yet sometimes the memories came unbidden, and then it was hard to hold back the tears." - Sansa II, ACOK

Person D: See?

Probably! I don't oppose that interpretation, it's very possible. People often suppress painful memories. But I can still disapprove of that coping mechanism. Would you like it if you suddenly disappeared form the face of earth in extremely mysterious circumstances and your friend wouldn't even ask about what happened to you? I don't think I would feel loved and treasured if I were to know that.

I don't like the way their dynamic is perceived by a majority of the fandom based on those four thoughts and the few other times we seen them interact in AGOT.

Person E: Oh OP is just posting anti-Jeynsa stuff because they ship Jeyne, A CHILD, with Theon, AN ADULT MAN AND RAPIST!

I wouldn't consider this anti-Jeynsa since

This is what makes their dynamic intriguing for me. This is the type of Jeynsa I'm into!!!

I don't think their relationship in inherently wrong or that it would be morally condemnable.

Also I don't even really ship Theon & Jeyne as an endgame romantic/sexual ship, not that it wowuld be morally wrong for anyone to do so. I "ship" it as a very turbulent dynamic between two people who have been forced to bond by the horrible circumstances they have been in and who have had the boundaries that define certain relationship dynamics blurred in some very traumatic ways. I "ship it" in the sense that I would like to see both of them find some tranquility and peace in their lives and try to explore which of those blurred boundaries they wish to reestablish, keep blurred or fully erase. Hell, I wrote a 100k fanfic focusing on their relationship and didn't even let them be endgame. I didn't even let them be actually in love.

It's just that "cute, loving, soft, homoromantic childhood best friends" isn't the dynamic I'm usually interested in.

And I don't think the Jeynsa dynamic is that.

I think there are class issues and inferiorities to be explored. I think Sansa is true in her affections for Jeyne, she loves her and sees her as a friend, but she is also diminishing and tends to look down on her, and regardless if it is a coping mechanism or not, she shows no interest in finding out what happened to who she considers her "truest friend".

And I don't believe Sansa is a bad person for this, I believe she is a young girl. Relationships between women are complicated enough already. Relationships between pre-teen and teen girls have entire studies dedicated to them.

Person F: How much would Sansa even consider her as a bff? In their bullying of Arya, Jeyne comes across as the acolyte to Queen Bea Sansa. And that's just modern projection. Jeyne is from a minor house. She's just a steward's daughter. She's just slightly above a servant in feudalist hierarchy. She's assigned to be her "friend" coz she's conveniently the same age, and that's just what you did then. Like "milk-siblings", servants who shared a wetnurse with a lord. (1/2)(2/2) Lower houses are fancy domesticity to the greater houses. The great nobility is fancy domesticity to royalty. That's just how feudalism worked. Everyone was thought of as a servant, the entirety of society was built on a network of servitude and dependance. Even the king is a servant: to God. Or "Gods" in the case of ASOIAF. Hence all the conclicts between church and royalty.

I saw this comment a while ago on a Tumblr post (I'm not putting a source link because I don't believe that would be fair to them and also it's older than a year) and I don't like it.

I think it is unfairly villainising Sansa and also removing Jeyne's agency in that situation by putting her as an "acolyte" (assistant, follower), when the composition of our first scene involving them, in my opinion, shows her as an adviser. I also don't like how it is pretending that Jeyne is being forced to be Sansa's friend and if going by that logic, then why isn't Beth being forced to be Arya's friend?

I disagree with it. I think it simplifies a more complex situation.

But I wish we were allowed to explore the less wholesome aspects in the Jeyne-Sansa dynamic without being instantaneously labeled as a Sansa-anti and it is what I'll attempt.

Something I always found very endearing and relatable about Sansa was how much she craved for friends - especially female friends - since she is left alone in King's Landing.

It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. - Sansa II, ASOS

How am I supposed not to feel my heart ache in bittersweetness? My favourite Sansa "friendship" is actually the one she builds with Garlan Tyrell, but this is a moment of bliss.

It's interesting how Sansa often finds amusement in female friends who act very differently from how she does, but as her character evolves in the books her feelings for those types of companions also seem to change.

We have Jeyne, Margaery and Myranda, as her "friends", characters with whom she experiences very different dynamics and I think it is at least partially involved with their classes too.

Jeyne is the one she treats the most poorly, in my opinion. Ignoring how little she thinks of her after Jeyne is taken away by Littlefinger, let's see some of their previous interactions and let's also keep in mind that Sansa is (at most) a 12-year-old girl not having a very good time and she deserves compassion:

[...] Jeyne and Sansa cried out in unison as riders crashed together, lances exploding into splinters while the commons screamed for their favorites. Jeyne covered her eyes whenever a man fell, like a frightened little girl, but Sansa was made of sterner stuff. A great lady knew how to behave at tournaments. Even Septa Mordane noted her composure and nodded in approval. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa feels superior to Jeyne for staying calm at the face of violence. This will become a pattern.

Jeyne Poole wept so hysterically that Septa Mordane finally took her off to regain her composure, but Sansa sat with her hands folded in her lap, watching with a strange fascination. [...] By then Septa Mordane had returned, alone. Jeyne had been feeling ill, she explained; she had helped her back to the castle. Sansa had almost forgotten about Jeyne. - Sansa II, AGOT

Jeyne is hysterical after seeing a man die at the tourney, Sansa isn't very concerned for her friend's mental state.

"His leg?" Jeyne said uncertainly. She was a pretty, dark-haired girl of Sansa's own age. "Did Ser Loras hurt his leg?" "Not his leg," Sansa said, nibbling delicately at a chicken leg. "Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." - Sansa III, AGOT

"Silly". It could be solely meant with endearment, but throughout that scene Sansa is in a bad mood and I wonder how Jeyne might have perceived it given she continues arguing with her about juridical administration and contradicts Sansa.

Of course, Jeyne had been in love with Lord Beric ever since she had first glimpsed him in the lists. Sansa thought she was being silly; Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, and no matter how much she mooned after him, Lord Beric would never look at someone so far beneath him, even if she hadn't been half his age. - Sansa III, AGOT

Again, "silly", and this time with a slightly classist connotation. And the saddest thing is that Sansa is right, but she often daydreams of unrealistic or impossible romantic scenarios herself and had a crush on Waymar Royce, a man who was older than her, of lower nobility and about to make a vow of celibacy. Why is Jeyne the silly one for daydreaming?

"They're killing everyone," the steward's daughter had shrieked at her. She went on and on. The Hound had broken down her door with a warhammer, she said. There were bodies on the stair of the Tower of the Hand, and the steps were slick with blood. Sansa dried her own tears as she struggled to comfort her friend. They went to sleep in the same bed, cradled in each other's arms like sisters. The second day was even worse. [...] The only sounds were Jeyne Poole's endless whimpers and sobs. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had been confined with her, but Jeyne was useless. Her face was puffy from all her crying, and she could not seem to stop sobbing about her father. "I'm certain your father is well," Sansa told her when she had finally gotten the dress buttoned right. "I'll ask the queen to let you see him." She thought that kindness might lift Jeyne's spirits, but the other girl just looked at her with red, swollen eyes and began to cry all the harder. She was such a child. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Remember what I said about Septa Mordane's "Stop weeping, child."? Sansa is vexed by her crying although Sansa cries herself, thinks of her as useless, she thinks demeaningly of Jeyne because she is crying after realising her father has been killed..

"Jeyne's scared," Sansa said. "She won't stop crying. I promised her I'd ask if she could see her father." - Sansa IV, AGOT

This feels like a twisted version of the first passage in this list. Sansa is scared herself, we know this because she was trembling as she dressed, but she speaks only of Jeyne's fear.

Jeyne Poole and all her things were gone when Ser Mandon Moore returned Sansa to the high tower of Maegor's Holdfast. No more weeping, she thought gratefully. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Sansa, love, I know you are very stressed out but come on open your eyes!

Somehow this reminds me a bit of a less extreme version of Theon's inconsistencies in thoughts and actions involving Jeyne in ADWD. He is very crude when thinking of her, but if you go through his actual treatment of her, he is surprisingly tender. The only exception I can think of for them is in TWOW.

With Sansa, I think it is similar, but whereas Theon is painfully aware of how perilous their lives as Ramsay's playthings are, Sansa constantly refuses to see the gravity of their situation and thus is dismissive of Jeyne in a moment where it becomes terribly cruel. I don't think she doesn't love Jeyne, of course, she does,

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, - Sansa III, AGOT

"Where are you sending her? She hasn't done anything wrong, she's a good girl." - Sansa IV, AGOT

No more weeping, she thought gratefully. Yet somehow it seemed colder with Jeyne gone, even after she'd built a fire. - Sansa IV, AGOT

She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. [...] Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. - Sansa II, ACOK

She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, - Sansa V, ACOK

She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. - Alayne II, AFFC

Remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. - Alayne I, TWOW

I think Sansa just sometimes takes her for granted.

I think it's sad because it's realistic and it hurts even more when you compare her treatment of Jeyne to her treatment of Margaery and Myranda after going through a period of hostile isolation and a heartbreaking customary middle school betrayal, two things that I believe influence her feelings for both girls.

With Margaery and her posse, she is idealistic. She considers Margaery to be kind, brave and wise, and finds bliss (and a little bit of envy and gayness, ooooh) in the company of her ladies.

Margaery's kindness had been unfailing, and her presence changed everything. Her ladies welcomed Sansa as well. It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. Lady Leonette gave her lessons on the high harp, and Lady Janna shared all the choice gossip. Merry Crane always had an amusing story, and little Lady Bulwer reminded her of Arya, though not so fierce. Closest to Sansa's own age were the cousins Elinor, Alla, and Megga, Tyrells from junior branches of the House. "Roses from lower on the bush," quipped Elinor, who was witty and willowy. Megga was round and loud, Alla shy and pretty, but Elinor ruled the three by right of womanhood; she was a maiden flowered, whereas Megga and Alla were mere girls. The cousins took Sansa into their company as if they had known her all their lives. They spent long afternoons doing needlework and talking over lemon cakes and honeyed wine, played at tiles of an evening, sang together in the castle sept ... and often one or two of them would be chosen to share Margaery's bed, where they would whisper half the night away. Alla had a lovely voice, and when coaxed would play the woodharp and sing songs of chivalry and lost loves. Megga couldn't sing, but she was mad to be kissed. She and Alla played a kissing game sometimes, she confessed, but it wasn't the same as kissing a man, much less a king. - Sansa II, ASOS

There is a direct comparison to Arya, mentions of many of Sansa's hobbies, some sapphicness, and if I squint my eyes the needlework and lemon cakes remind me of Jeyne & Beth. And then...Sansa is made to marry Tyrion and that match frustrates the Tyrell's ambitions.

And here Sansa found the Tyrells. Margaery gave her such a sad look, and when the Queen of Thorns tottered in between Left and Right, she never looked at her at all. Elinor, Alla, and Megga seemed determined not to know her. My friends, Sansa thought bitterly. - Sansa III, ASOS

After that emotional betrayal, Sansa spends more time of isolation and this time it's even more depressing in my opinion. The few people who show her kindness are also somewhat compliant in her misery and then she gets abducted by Petyr Baelish and has to take the role of his bastard daughter, Alayne Stone. Under this guise she meets Myranda Royce and Mya Stone.

While I would say she befriends both girls, her connection with Randa resembles that which she had with Jeyne and Margaery more than her connection with Mya. Both of them share some common interests and Myranda, isn't disdainful at all of her supposed bastardy.

Person G: That's because she is cunning and suspects Alayne is actually highborn.

I'm not so convinced by that argument! She is described of being as closes as sisters with Mya Stone, another bastard.

Sansa's distrust for Myranda is, in my opinion, only partially fuelled by Littlefinger's words.

"Soon or late you must meet Myranda Royce," Petyr had warned her. "When you do, be careful. She likes to play the merry fool, but underneath she's shrewder than her father. Guard your tongue around her." - Alayne II, AFFC

I think her distrust comes mostly from her last close homosocial relationship having been a farce, from feeling manipulated, used and deceived. And that mistrust remains but is worn down by Randa's warm personality.

I think there is is something very sweet about comparing the following passages:

Sansa knelt at the feet of her future queen. "You do me great honor, Your Grace." "Won't you call me Margaery? Please, rise. Loras, help the Lady Sansa to her feet. Might I call you Sansa?" - Sansa I, ASOS

"Kind?" The older girl gave a laugh. "How boring that would be. I aspire to be wicked. You must tell me all your secrets on the ride down. May I call you Alayne?" "If you wish, my lady." But you'll get no secrets from me. "I am 'my lady' at the Gates, but up here on the mountain you may call me Randa. How many years have you, Alayne?" [...] "As you say, my lady." "Randa. Come now, you can say it. Ran. Da." "Randa." - Alayne II, AFFC

It's curious how in both cases there is this chance of friendship being offered to Sansa by a girl who has a higher rank than her but one is done much more courteously than the other. Sansa never calls Myranda "Randa" again, but as she warms up to her she begins referring to her as such in the narration. I think that is very heartwarming.

Maybe it is stupid to complain about the idealisation of a flawed friendship in these books, but I think the reason it annoys me so much is because it removes this type of development in Sansa's socialising. Her interactions with Myranda are delightful to read and I think it's the healthiest friendship she has formed yet.

And Myranda also embodies aspects of Margaery and Jeyne, so it's an even funnier conclusion. She is a little bit less ladylike than Sansa, but is still comfortable with her gender and the assigned roles, she is a little foul mouthed, she likes to gossip and to take friends to her bed (in an apparent not-sexual way).

"Lothor Brune?" Myranda raised an eyebrow. "Does she know?" She did not wait for an answer. "He has no hope, poor man. My father's tried to make a match for Mya, but she'll have none of them. She is half mule, that one." Despite herself, Alayne found herself warming to the older girl. She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. "Do you think Ser Lothor likes her as she is, in mail and leather?" she asked the older girl, who seemed so worldly-wise. "Or does he dream of her draped in silks and velvets?" "He's a man. He dreams of her naked." She is trying to make me blush again. Lady Myranda must have heard her thoughts. "You do turn such a pretty shade of pink. When I blush I look quite like an apple. I have not blushed for years, though." She leaned closer. "Does your father plan to wed again?" - Alayne II, AFFC

Even Lady Myranda began to yawn and complain of being weary. "We have apartments prepared for all of you," she told Alayne, "but if you like you may share my bed tonight. It's large enough for four." "I should be honored, my lady." "Randa. Count yourself fortunate that I'm so tired. All I want to do is curl up and go to sleep. Usually when ladies share my bed they have to pay a pillow tax and tell me all about the wicked things they've done." "What if they haven't done any wicked things?" "Why, then they must confess all the wicked things they want to do. Not you, of course. I can see how virtuous you are just by looking at those rosy cheeks and big blue eyes of yours." She yawned again. "I hope your feet are warm. I do hate bedmaids with cold feet." - Alayne II, AFFC

"I do hope you will forgive me for depriving you of Lady Myranda's company," Alayne told the knights. She did not wait for a reply, but took the older girl arm-in-arm and drew her away from the bench. Only when they were out of earshot did she whisper, "Do you really know where my father is?" "Of course not. Walk faster, my new suitors may be following." Myranda made a face. "Ossifer Lipps is the dullest knight in the Vale, but Uther Shett aspires to his laurels. I am praying they fight a duel for my hand, and kill each other." Alayne giggled. "Surely Lord Nestor would not seriously entertain a suit from such men." - Alayne I, TWOW

"Too late," Myranda said. "They're here. We shall need to do the honors by ourselves." She grinned. "Last one to the gate must marry Uther Shett." They made a race of it, dashing headlong across the yard and past the stables, skirts flapping, whilst knights and serving men alike looked on, and pigs and chickens scattered before them. It was most unladylike, but Alayne sound found herself laughing. For just a little while, as she ran, she forget who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. By the time they arrived at the gatehouse, both of them were red-faced and panting. Myranda had lost her cloak somewhere along the way. They were just in time. - Alayne I, TWOW 

I don't even ship them (Mya x Myranda and Sansa x Brienne ftw), and this doesn't have anything to do with the theme of whatever this text turned into, but I love their dynamic so much I would ship it if it became canon. It's adorable and funny and out of her dynamics with other girls, this one is my favourite.

We know that the Sansa-Margaery friendship turned out disappointingly, and some have the suspicion that Myranda could act as a new tormentor for Sansa, and I have no way to disprove that, but seeing her development in regards to female friendships makes me at least doubt it.

She took Jeyne for granted and was disdainful, spent a time of hostile isolation, met Margaery and her ladies, went through the horrors of idealisation and crashed against the truth, spent even more time alone and kept the wounds from her sorrow, and is now apparently finding a healthy friendship with Myranda Royce and I love that for her.

It makes me wonder how her feelings for Jeyne could evolve if they get to meet again, and whether she will be more conscious of how their friendship was flawed. Of how she should have probably tried to be more attentive to the dynamic between Jeyne & Arya, of how she perhaps shouldn't have been passive about Jeyne's bullying nor participated in it.

As I write I am checking everything in my journals and I couldn't find a single occasion in which we see Sansa calling Arya "Horseface", but I did however find her thinking of Arya's looks as "horsey" with a negative connotation:

Her long horsey face got the stubborn look that meant she was going to do something willful. [...] One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

She also giggles at and uses Jeyne's nicknames for Hobber and Horas Redwyne:

The Redwyne twins, Ser Horas and Ser Hobber, homely youths with orange hair and square, freckled faces. Sansa and Jeyne Poole used to call them Ser Horror and Ser Slobber, and giggle whenever they caught sight of them. - Arya V, AGOT

She recognized black-skinned Jalabhar Xho, gloomy Ser Aron Santagar, the Redwyne twins Horror and Slobber - Sansa V, ACOK

Paxter Redwyne, Lord of the Arbor, marched down the length of the hall flanked by his twin sons Horror and Slobber, - Sansa VIII, ACOK

And seeing her snicker at those names is already enough for me to pin her as a passive victimiser in their case. Even if she felt bad about it, something I could find no indication of. Sansa doesn't think of how painful it must be for them to be referred to that way, how dehumanising it is.

So, with that information, I don't think she's above having called Arya "Horseface".

Ⅴ. Adulthood

Where are the adults? Why is it that during the entire time we spend with these three girls under the care of Septa Mordane, Ned and Catelyn Stark and Vayon Poole we never see them taking action and putting a stop to this?

DontbotherwiththepronunciationRightNowRealisingTheySpentWayTooMuchFuckingTimeDevelopingAPunchlineTheyLost: Probably because this book isn't about medieval setting middle school bullying, you idiot! And there is a lot of really urgent stuff going on with the adults. Get over yourself.

Yeah...

But still! Prior to all that, prior to the story we've been reading, these characters existed in their own universe and in that universe, all these girls have been judged by adult society and have been set in a toxic environment that unintentionally allows and encourages the bullying.

I already explained that when talking about Septa Mordane.

My question now isn't whether we should fault the adults or not, but more about how this would have developed as Arya, Jeyne and Sansa all became adults.

Of corse, this is all speculation on a rather unimportant topic that has been discussed hundreds of times before and my opinion is probably somewhat tainted by lingering emotions, so yeah this might have been worthless but I couldn't sleep and it was a little fun.

Perhaps because of my own issues with bullying, which were handed very poorly by the adults who should have solved it, I like daydreaming about these three girls, all of who I like and wish good things upon, and wondering whether they would have been able to solve their problems as they matured into adulthood if their lives had remained peaceful. I sadly don't think they would have.

Throughout the entire text I wrote, I felt like walking on egg shells because, as you can probably see if you just look at my blog, I barely talk about Arya or Sansa and I know there is a lot of tension between fans of those characters and I didn't want to say anything that could feel offensive and somehow it was still surprisingly easy to write this. I think maybe it is because I don't relate to any of the characters, like I do with Theon or Barbrey, so I can distance myself from it a little more. On the other hand, this is a topic that still haunts me.

I really don't think they would have solved any of this if they had remained in Winterfell with things going the way they usually went.

But now, after being completely torn and victimised by war in extremely different ways that still somehow manage to bring similar themes to their stories (the always present threat of sexual abuse, the weaponising of a person, depersonalisation, dead parents, a broken home, losing their privileges as highborn, being saved by the Hound), once they reunite and are the only bonds that remains of a happier time, I think they could.

Maybe their newly found maturity and the despair born out of tragedy could make it easier to overcome all their past offences and forge a bond.

It's strange. I always go for the bitter, resentful and scorned women - I wonder why - (Barb, Cersei) or those who have aspects I can relate to cultural duality, immigration or rootlessness (Theon, Dany) but never for the more-or-less-happily-gender-conforming "damsel in distress", much less for one who reminds me of some of the worst people I've met, and yet out of the three girls involved in this she is the one I am the most attached to.

I think she mostly grew on me after I learnt she was omitted from the show and that her narrative was given to Sansa because that is such a cruel joke from D&D.

Jeyne Poole: Hey! I am the character meant to show how everyone is valuable, worthy and deserving of being saved and protected and how everyone matters and also to further develop Theon's character while functioning as a symbol of his culpability and regret of the three vilest things he has done(among other things of course)! D&D: Ok, we are cutting her because she is not important enough to matter. Give her plot to the barely adult red-headed Stark so Theon can find redemption by saving a Stark and getting a wolf pin and we can shiptease Sansa with a bunch of people and marketise her as an ice queen girlboss.

It's so mean it's a little funny. On a meta level I think she is the biggest loser in this series. I think that is why I like her so much. I liked her before I knew of that and I remember crying at @/croclock's art of her and Theon escaping (1) (2) (3), but I didn't feel as emotionally attached to her until after I found out.

I remember when I watched the show there was a scene that caused a lot of controversy that I can somehow relate to this.

Sandor Clegane: You've changed, Little Bird. None of it would have happened if you'd left King's Landing with me. No Littlefinger, no Ramsay... none of it. Sansa Stark: Without Littlefinger and Ramsay and the rest, I would have stayed a Little Bird all my life.

And of course this dialogue is gross and it doesn't make any sense in the books, and I still wrote it down on my journals because I think, maybe trying to be an optimist, that the message behind it was different than what was actually said???

It comes across as "I'm happy and grateful I was abused and raped" which is nauseating, obviously, but I think it was rather supposed to be more of a "All the choices I've made across my life and all the events that occurred through it have lead me here, to become the person I am today and I am proud of that person." which could still have been controversial, but is something I would have agreed with more, and it's not something I would only apply on these girls.

Maybe we'll get such a moment at some point with a better execution, hopefully, in the books.

[wingsoverlagos]

Lewisohn vs. Wenner Pt. 1 of 2

I kid, I kid! Of course I'll adjudicate things between these lads.

I'm working on the follow-up(s) to my Kim Bennett post, but I lack the degree of coherence necessary to finish them at the moment. My household has been hit with Covid and influenza, so I'm too sleep deprived to string together a proper point. But I can still check citations, baby!

Today we're tackling a fun source: Jann Wenner, co-founder of Rolling Stone magazine and early-70s confidante of the LennOnos. Mark Lewisohn quotes interviews conducted by Jann Wenner ten times in Tune In; nine of those quotes had issues. Nine of the ten quotes come from the infamous Lennon Remembers interview (conducted in Dec. 1970 and first published in Jan. 1971); the other one is from a different 1970 interview for Rolling Stone. A few of these have been covered by @mythserene; I've included links to her analysis.

About half of Lewisohn's Wenner-sourced 'quotes' are Textbook Multi-Source Frankenquotes. Lewisohn does this quite brazenly--if you look at the text of the endnote, it will say something like "First and third parts of quote from Bip Bop Weekly, second part from interview with...." The multi-source quotes will appear in part two; this post will include the single-source ones.

Pictured text is from Lennon Remembers (Verso, 2000 ed.), but I made my comparison against the audio of the interview. You can listen to it on YouTube here. I've included time stamps as well as page numbers for each quote.

Tune In 33-2 vs. Wenner p.65 (1:49:24), 145-6 (4:16:43)

I do not like the way Lewisohn wrote/cited this--each quote from the Beatles is pulled from a different source, but it's presented almost as a dialogue. It would be simple stuff to slap an endnote after each quote giving its source, rather than using a single endnote for all four separate quotes.

That's just a quibble, but this quote delivers a big issue as well. See that ellipsis? Lewisohn is letting you know that he left out over two hours of recorded interview between the first and second parts of this quote. You can use an ellipsis to omit a few words or a sentence or two in the same passage--you can't use it to omit multiple hours of conversation.

An ellipsis would be perfectly acceptable between the fragment and the final sentence, but Lewisohn chose not to use one.

Tune In 24-33 vs. Wenner p.63 (1:44:58)

I have come to love those instances were Lewisohn throws in one token ellipsis as if that will distract from the fact that he completely scrambled the order of the sentences.

Tune In 31-44 vs. Wenner p.27 (54:46)

@anotherkindofmindpod discussed this in their Fine Tuning series - I believe in the episode "Leader Lennon." I won't hit it too hard.

As you can see, the context in the source text is wildly different from its use in Tune In. In the original, John is discussing confronting the Maharishi about rape allegations. In Tune In, Lewisohn uses it in the context of….discussing a song choice with George Martin. A bit different. John does imply some universality in the source quote (“as usual”), but this still seems like a stretch. Also note the omission of the word “actually” in the phrase “I actually had to be the leader,” which, to my reading, implies that John wasn’t constantly in Leader Lennon mode, unless the others were forcing him to handle the dirty work.

Sources:

Wenner JS. 1970. 1970 12 08 John Lennon Interview, Rolling STones Lennon Remembers, Complete Unedited [video]. Youtube. 2022 Apr 18, 4:26:50. Accessed 2024 Feb 18. Available from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YelhzUbrCE

Wenner JS. 1971. 2000 ed. Interview with John Lennon and Yoko Ono. Lennon Remembers. London: Verso. 151p. Accessed online. Available from: https://archive.org/details/lennonremembers00lenn_0/page/151/mode/2up

[jiminsass-istant]

https://www.tumblr.com/jiminsass-istant/740934106304626688/bye-bye-old-bts?source=share

There’s a lot of assumptions here I don’t agree with. The west is embracing new jeans and they haven’t had physical promo like bts did. The reason why bts is not getting really embraced by the gp is cos the music they promote to the west is generic meaningless boy band music which is very unrelatable. And authenticity is a big thing in the west. If they gave Mots7 or any of their albums before that the level of promo dynamite or butter had, they would have gotten more of the gp appreciation.

Hybe is not just only promoting jk, but they were also hampering other members promo. Look at how lackadaisical they were with shipping jh, Jin & RM albums. How poorly they scheduled Face, the many issues we faced during Face era that jk never experienced. We had to tag them for basic things that a label should already know about. How they shaded jm in their own article and are several times refusing to acknowledge his no1. It goes beyond promoting one member and more into trying to stifle the rest to present an image the label has the power to make a pop star. And is probably also why they give this promo to songs the label premade and not the artist’s authentic music that the artists makes

Thanks for the ask, anon. I'll share my thoughts to your ask in parts: (and sorry for the long essay in advance, kindly read, i swear i get to a point lol)

Western GP (New Jeans vs BTS): Can I be very very honest? New Jeans music is extremely catchy and has that hyperpop element that western audiences eat up. With rise of artists like PinkPantheress, hyperpop is gaining even more popularity, and Y2K aesthetic is back. NewJeans are all that- the music and aesthetic both. I'm not sure what were their digital promo methods, but perhaps playlisting on streaming platforms? And the collab with Apple was very strategic too. Let's also not forget they have english chorus in their songs and went viral on tiktok. New Jeans are in top 5 kpop groups in tiktok. I cannot speak for NewJeans much, because I have only listened to their songs, and do not follow them.

Let's talk about OT7 songs promoted in the US first- as in Dynamite, Butter and PTD. Let's take Dynamite - a very well crafted product, basically a completely American song with American references and MJ inspired choreo. It was meant to catch western attention and did its job. But the problem was- it was a single, not an album and it didn't really showcase the range of their artistry. Yet it did the job of exponentially increasing the fanbase. It was pandemic time, people were in their rooms, with internet and Youtube. Those who were meant to find BTs, found them.

Could BTS have achieved long lasting attention with MOTS 7 promotion? Honestly, it's hard to say. BTS's music is not conventional. You will never hear a BTS song and think- 'oh! i've heard something similar', in fact, sometimes it is even difficult to comprehend what genre their songs are. A different language, a different genre, 7 different voices, with no two albums that sound similar, no viral tiktok songs. Do you know how difficult it is to crack the western market? It is a lot of information to feed. I will come back to the MOTS 7 issue later.

How does one build a fanbase for a band like BTS?

BTS's popularity and long lasting fanbase has always been formed by the story they sell. Bang PD, right from the start, wanted to show the world 7 authentic, real boys who wanted to share their original thoughts, happiness, feelings and struggles. Added to this, their underdog story. Yes, their struggles from older days are all real and valid, but knowing that story makes you relate to them. Because, aren't we all some type of underdog before we achieve something big? People have often been drawn to BTS via word of mouth, friends, 'i just wanted to know their names' and ending up watching the Taylor Guide, 'my wife took me to their concert and now all my friends love BTS', 'they taught me how to love myself' etc etc. BTS has always inducted fans who were searching for something in their lives, or are curious, or are 'willing to learn'. You cannot sit an American down and show them a BTS US interview and ask them to listen to the album and make them a forever fan. Do you know how people in the west don't watch an international film just because they refuse to read subtitles? The language barrier might be easy for armies to overlook because we are invested, but it's not easy to convince a monolingual westerner to start reading subtitles to get into an entirely different fandom.

To sum up my points above:

BTS sell their story and relatability and group dynamics, which is not possible just through basic promotion. One has to dive into BTS voluntarily and go through the plethora of content, one by one.

BTS songs are usually not tiktok viral for some reason, considering how big of an act they are. Barely any bts tracks have gone viral- BST remix, black swan instrumental (maybe), PTD dance challenge to name a few. I don't know the reason why because I have barely ever used tiktok. Because armies only interact with each other on that app and even then, they don't use bts songs as audio.

The pre-requisite is to be backed by a western label for radio, playlist, western ads etc. Because the US won't allow an outsider label to make money off their GP, simple. It just takes away the money that could have stayed with western labels.

Coming to individual member (JK) promoted in the US: I did mention in the post of mine you have linked- that Golden lacked depth. Quoting my own words directly - " While they paid attention to heavy promo, charts and playlisting for Golden, they failed to create a connection with the music- which seems highly non-personal and lacking in depth and has a non-interesting concept. The promo did do the work of making jk a common name, showcasing his talents and introducing him to the industry. But for a lasting impact, they have to create better stories with the music. Idc, army are acting too defensive when people are disappointed that he didn't write his songs. It's okay to not write, but the very least singers can do is connect to song meanings and relate to personal experiences during the promos."

And anon, you are right, to have a lasting impression in the west, one needs authenticity. Actually let me list down the non-compromisable parameters required for success in the US-

Affiliation to US based label/Connection to industry mammoths. (Give money to US/US based part of the company)

English song/ lots of english lyrics + recognizable genre

Character/ brand of the artist (which the audience calls 'authenticity', but is actually the 'brand' of the artist created by the label. People hear the artist's name and know what to expect. You hear Olivia Rodrigo and you know you will get teenage, angsty, heartbreak tracks.)

Last but not the least- tiktok push. (somehow extremely essential today)

Hybe gave JK 1,2 and 4 from above list. They tried to build up on his character, but it is incomplete and lacks depth. The character they have built for him is- Korean hearthrob who can sing and dance, inspired by Michael Jackson, the ONE member to look out from the massive band BTS (Justin Timberlake trajectory). They gave him catchy songs directed at het women, dressed him up in clothes fitting that image and made him perform live at TSX. Thanks to the massive ads and promo, people know him now. But unless he shows the true depth of his character and brand to the GP, a lot of people (non-army) won't look forward to his future works. And whether we like it or not, him not being being able to interact freely and share his thoughts in english in the interviews is still a drawback for him. (personally, i wish that was not true).

Even when some celebrities of colour get the limelight in US pop culture, it's because they are connected to the US. They emerge as this messiah for their 3rd world country, can speak english and work for US labels and production companies. The US gets to keep the money and awards, and also gets to flaunt 'diversity'. It has always worked like that when the west opened the doors for a POC.

MOTS 7 would not get GP acceptance without being backed by a US label. And would a US label ever accept a full Korean album with all Korean artists? Why would they invest in an artist of a foreign language? Can Bang PD's assistant call up US radio and get them to play Dionysus? No. But if Scooter does it, they will pay attention.

An English speaking artist can convey their feelings through words on a radio, but how will a Korean artist do that on the radio with no subtitles, to an audience who refuses to read subs in the first place? You know how the US GP reacted when Parasite movie won an Oscar, right?

Ever since 2017, BTS have tried for that hot 100, did everything they could, backed by their Korean company, tons of US interviews and what not. But at the end of the day, they had to compromise with meaning and depth and churn out an all english, MJ inspired, disco pop track which finally gave them their #1. I am not downplaying the significance of Dynamite, or saying that it's a bad song. But I simply mean that only a marked shift in genre and strategy gave them that #1.

Anon's words: "Hybe is not just only promoting jk, but they were also hampering other members promo."

You are absolutely right. The only properly done solo work was that of Yoongi I feel. He knows his priorities and influence on the company, and has always had a very strong connection to both inside and outside the company. I'm not sure if D-Day was mismanaged, though am sure some yoongi biased army will have things to point out. All the other members have faced mismanagement. Jimin the most, I feel. Even recently, there's a Weverse article where they wrote that "jhope led the contemporary dance with Jimin", in spring day. All respect to Jhope where he deserves because he is the dance leader indeed, but he did not lead the contemporary dance in spring day, as amazing as he is, respectfully.

Anon's words: "It goes beyond promoting one member and more into trying to stifle the rest to present an image the label has the power to make a pop star."

I felt the same thing. I share the same sentiment with you here. The way they downplayed Like Crazy's achievements was disappointing and hurtful. That day it became crystal clear to me that Bighit did NOT see that achievement coming. None of the member's releases was meant to make this much noise, not before their Scooter backed project. They grossly underestimated the extent army can go even for 1 member (arguably the 2 most popular members in US are Jimin and Jungkook). Honestly the type of promotions JK got would never be given to other members because the other members would NOT agree to singing english songs that have zero depth and zero connection to their own feelings. JK was willing to take up that offer because.. well it's his choice. It was a golden platter, why not take it up? His image is moldable, he can sing whatever he is given and has the talent to pull it off. No matter whom we bias, JK has been the center of almost all BTS songs, a non-replaceable voice. But at the end of the day, the reason he was the one member who Bighit wanted to stand-out from the group was, it was his consent and agreement to everything the company planned for him.

I do wonder what it would have been like if all members received that kind of promo with their own artistry. But the entire premise of them being backed by Scooter/US collapses because they refuse to sing songs written by Scooter's writers. So I also agree with anon when they said "And is probably also why they give this promo to songs the label premade and not the artist’s authentic music that the artists makes."

Instead, Hybe is focusing on the other kpop groups under them. It's like the 6 members were just given their own individual management teams to manage their solo works lol. At least, let's be glad that the 6 members are getting full creative freedom for their work. I just want their solo works to be better managed. And I hope their managers, and planners, especially those on Jimin's side have learnt their lesson and come up with a foolproof promo for their next projects. I don't expect anything from BangPD, that man has been showing a certain pattern I don't want to discuss. (solely because i refuse to think what goes on in his mind).

As fans, all we can do is support the solo works we feel connected to and support BTS as a whole in future OT7 projects.

[awwsd]

Death of the Endless: Show vs Comic

There has been much hoopla and many a meta about how the show (slightly) softens the Sandman’s characters, but after reading the comics I was most struck by Death of the endless and how different she is (she’s so much nicer in the show so far—) anyway I love them both so very dearly for different reasons so here are my rambly-ass thoughts in no particular order.

Show!Death

My angel sweetie baby cakes the love of my life, she would never throw bread at her brother ever in her life how could you even accuse her of such a thing????

She’s near tears now actually.

She’s trying so hard not to cry rn.

God, don’t you feel awful?

Absolutely would have freed Dream if she could, Something must have come up.

Sort of falls into the Wise and Perfect Woman stereotype, but I feel like there’s so much stress built up under there.

She is everyone’s Mom, but not in the fun wholesome way, in the the parentified way.

Loves humanity, loves to watch people make mistakes and grow from them, just wishes they didn’t fear her so much.

She’s so so sad so much all the time, but she hides it by being aggressively nice to the point people become actively concerned for her self preservation instincts.

I think she has a depression hoodie.

Stress bakes. It makes her smile :)

Taught herself guitar.

Beautiful and kind but unable to handle meaningful relationships because she’s not sure she deserves them.

Empathizes So Hard All The Time.

Not sure where she ends and everyone else begins. Maybe has some individuality struggles.

Love her because she is constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown and deserves to snap and be a Little Bit Worse, as a treat.

God I hope she’s meaner in season 2.

Comic!Death

Is actively having a mental breakdown at all times, tries to be nice, threw bread at Dream.

Would have thrown more if she could reach it.

She’s more powerful than you, she knows this, you knows this, she doesn’t particularly care because the universe is just Like That so it’s whatever.

Doesn’t have a solid understanding of what would actually, you know, kill someone.

She’s working on it, okay?

Kind of icky to look at, but like, in a hot way.

Tired older sister energy, wants very much to stay home and watch TV with her goldfish but UGH her little brother summoned the furies AGAIN.

Gotta get him out of this mess ig.

Loves her siblings but kind of incapable of vocalizing it.

I think she probably brings them fun new souls that she thinks they’d like, sort of like a crow brings shiny trinkets or something.

Mommy issues (Listens to Mitski on a loop and cries.)

Would probably be nicer if she ever got to take a nap but she hasn’t slept in over a century.

Channels her negative energy into mild pettiness and aggressive manic pixie dream girl energy.

She’s also sad, I think that’s the throughline here.

Everyone tells her she’s So Nice and her words are So Profound.

But that’s only because they can’t tell her insults aren’t jokes.

Got beaten up by some guy once because she followed him into a dark alleyway for funsies.

Makes Faustian deals with people.

For funsies.

Love her because she means well but just kind of fails, by the cosmic nature of her very being.

#letwomenbebitchy2023

It’s my favorite character trait.

[thehorrortree]

Deadline: May 1st, 2024 Payment: Prose: 1¢ per word, Poetry: $10, Artwork: $25 (Cover art is $50.) Theme: Heredity NonBinary Review is open for submissions on the theme of "heredity." Maybe you have your mother's nose, or your father's eyes, or your grandmother's hair, or your uncle's earlobes. There are so many things that run in families - not just physical characteristics, but so many of our habits, tastes, and ways of thinking. The "nature vs. nurture" debate has been raging forever, although science is finding that a surprising amount of what we think of as learned behavior might actually be biological. But what else might we inherit from our families? Magic powers? A tail? ESP? We're looking for speculative takes on heredity - the unexpected, the impossible, the very furthest out there. We're NOT looking for stories about inheritance - things given to us by families or friends. We're not looking for werewolves or vampires (or any other well-known fictional monsters). We're looking for something new - something we've never seen before. Prose: All submissions must have a clear relationship to our theme, and be double-spaced in 12pt Times New Roman or they will be rejected. NonBinary Review  pays 1¢ per word for prose with a limit of 3000 words. Poetry: All submissions must have a clear relationship to our theme and be submitted in 12pt Times New Roman, or they will be rejected. Submitters may include up to THREE poems per submission, but each must be a separate file. NonBinary Review pays a $10 flat fee for poetry. Artwork: All submissions must have a clear relationship to our theme and be submitted as a jpg., .png., .tiff., or .psd file of 300dpi or greater (accepted pieces must be PRINT QUALITY). Submitters may include up to five pieces per submission, but each must be a separate file. NonBinary Review pays a $25 flat fee for visual art, or $50 for pieces chosen as cover art. Zoetic Press publishes the best in speculative lit - experimental, interstitial, luminous. We welcome submissions from EVERYONE. The only requirement is that they be in English, or translated into English (we love a translation). If your writing is outstanding, no matter who you are, we have a place for it. NonBinary Review, our award-winning themed lit journal is published quarterly. Each issue revolves around a specific theme, but we're asking contributors to go beyond the old familiar media tropes - we want speculative work that looks at our theme from unexpected angles. We're looking for work we can read with our whole body - work that gives us goosebumps, makes us see the world differently, has the tang of authenticity, makes us sit up and listen, and smells like....something. This analogy got out of hand. What we're saying is that we're not looking for re-hashes of images or stories we've read before. We want contributors to explore every facet of our themes, really getting in between the cracks, in the corners, all the forgotten places that no one ever thinks to explore. We want to read work that makes us think "I never would have thought of this, and yet, it's so fitting!" What we're NOT looking for is work that centers violence, rape, misogyny, racism, ableism, or degrading stereotypes of any kind. We know you're not that kind of writer, but we thought it should be said. NonBinary Review accepts reprints, but we do ask for previous publication details so they can be credited. Prose submissions (for which we pay 1¢ per word) should be 3000 words or fewer in length, double-spaced in 12pt Times New Roman font or similar. Poetry submissions (for which we pay a $10 flat fee) should include no more than 3 poems, each of which may be up to 3 pages in length. Please include each poem as a separate file. Art submissions (for which we pay a $25 flat fee) should include no more than 5 pieces. Each piece should be at least 300dpi, and at least 600 pixels on its smallest side. Any piece chosen for cover art will pay $50. We do not accept any submission that consists of links to an artist's website.

Please ensure that you are submitting to the correct category, as we have different editing teams for each. Submissions sent to the wrong category (e.g., poetry submissions sent to the prose category) will be declined. Dear Horace Greeley invites writers to ask questions about writing, submitting, publication, and any other aspect of the literary life that baffle them, and we'll answer them online. We don't promise that we have all the answers, but we do promise that we're here for you! Feedback for Poets of Color is just what it sounds like. People of color may submit ONE poem, up to 50 lines, for consideration. Two poets per month will be accepted, and the Poetry Editors will work with those two poets to edit, improve, and strengthen their work. Acceptances are done on the first of the month, although submissions are open year-round. Heartbeats: Visual Verse invites poets to push the boundaries of poetry. We're looking for poetry that combines narration, music, and visuals to create a complete experience. We're not looking for a static reading or words scrolling down a screen - we want interplay between visuals and audio that create something more than the sum of its parts. Poets may submit work of up to 140 seconds in length. We pay a flat fee of $25 per accepted video. Only those categories below are currently open for submissions. While there is a published close date for submissions, we have an acceptance cap for each issue, and submissions will be closed once we reach that cap, so don't wait until the last minute. Via: NonBinary Review.

[ravenstargames]

Super excited for the game!!! It looks so good so far!!!

I absolutely love how you guys made the MC more or less a blank slate, I find having a set appearance and solid personality to be a little bit jarring, but the way you are going to do it seems really good!

Btw, have you guys already found a proof-writer? If not, will you make a post searching for one or will you hire someone that you find online? Just curious since I'd be interested in the position.

Also... Xal 🥺🥺

Thank you for reading!

AWWW Anon!! Thank you so much! ; v ; 💜 Words like yours encourage us to keep working hard!

About the MC, I (as the writer) wanted to try and create a balance between 'the player can insert their own headcanons' and 'the MC has their own personality, dreams and aspirations', because I find the latter more engaging and easy to both write and empathize with. River has some established traits about them that the player can choose how to 'channel', but there's also quite the amount of things that are never specified about them, which I think helps create this balance. You will be able to test this in the demo, so I hope we can get a nice amount of feedback about it!

✦ About proofreading—we want to hire a proofreader, but sadly I'm not sure if we'll be able to properly pay for one with our current funds. All the donations we get on our ko.fi page are destined for this, but reality is the demo script is long and we want to pay people what their work is worth. There's a bunch of options we can weigh (and we still have plenty of time), but there's a chance the demo script will not be 'officially' proofreaded and we'll wait to get funded to hire someone to both revise the prologue and the rest of the game!

Also, now that you have brought up the MC's appearance, I will take the opportunity to talk a bit about our plans so far! I hope you don't mind, anon! 💜

✦ The MC's physical appearance?

Our current plan is to not have any visual depictions of the MC in the demo, but create a 'default' River for the full game so the CGs can be more diverse and include direct interactions between the MC and the LIs / the world. Note that we won't force the player to 'have to see' the MC on screen all the time if we end up choosing to depict them.

Following this train of thought, we would like to add a Kickstarter backer pledge that includes designing and adding a custom MCs as a 'default' option, and even a character creator whose customization is reflected in the CGs as a stretch goal. This is what we really, really would like to do; for the player to be able to customize the appearance of the MC however they desire (to a certain limit). Emphasis on ' would like to', because it's certainly ambitious and not an easy or cheap task. So these are just dreams and wishes for now.

Obviously, both depicting the MC or not doing it has its pros and cons, and we want to seize all options, listen to opinions and then settle on something. There's a lot of devs who have approached this in different, creative ways, so I know we have options and combinations out there.

In fact, Twin Coves' dev is now running a poll about this that you can find here!

Our plan is just that, a plan; it's not set in stone, and after the demo drops, we will make a poll to see how many of you would like one option vs the other and get to know your opinions. As of the demo, the MC won't have an established appearance and that is official, so rest assured that we will have time to listen to you all and assess our options.

Thank you for your kindness anon! 💜 I hope this wasn't a bummer or anything, we just want to be honest about our thoughts and our issues and everything else. Don't hesitate to send another ask if you have any other doubt, and know that Xal sends a huge smooch your way!

[religion-is-a-mental-illness]

By: Richard V. Reeves

Published: May 24, 2023

One hundred and fifty years ago this month, John Stuart Mill died in his home in Avignon. His last words were to his step-daughter, Helen Taylor: “You know that I have done my work.”

He certainly had. During his 66 years of life, Mill became the preeminent public intellectual of the century, producing definitive works of logic and political economy, founding and editing journals, serving in Parliament, and churning out book reviews, journalism and essays, most famously his 1859 masterpiece, On Liberty. Oh, and he had a day job, too: as one of the most senior bureaucrats in the East India Company. 

What is too often forgotten about Mill is that he was as much an activist as an academic. Benjamin Franklin exhorted his followers to “either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.” Mill, like Franklin himself, is among the very few who managed to do both.

For Mill, liberalism did not only have to be argued for, it had to be fought for, too. He campaigned for women’s rights and was the first MP to introduce a bill for women’s suffrage into Parliament. He was a fiercely committed anti-racist, strongly supporting the abolitionist movement in the United States, and the North in the Civil War. Mill also led a successful campaign for the right to protest and speak in London’s public parks. In Hyde Park, the famous Speaker’s Corner stands today as a tribute to his victory. 

And unlike many of his 19th century peers, Mill’s thought remains vividly topical even today. In fact, Mill is more in the spotlight now, and more needed now, than he was two decades ago. My own book about Mill was published in 2007 and although it received polite, even somewhat enthusiastic notices in the right places, back then, the case for liberalism, which Mill still makes better than any other, hardly seemed like a pressing concern.

What a difference a decade can make. On every front—economic, political, philosophical, cultural, the very idea of liberalism is being questioned, and threatened. Here I’ll just take on two of the challenges to Mill’s variety of liberalism: a growing skepticism of the value of free speech, and post-liberal attacks on liberal individualism.

Why does free speech matter? Mill believed that the pursuit of truth required the collation and combination of ideas and propositions, even those that seem to be in opposition to each other. He urged us to allow others to speak—and then to listen to them—for three main reasons, most crisply articulated in Chapter 2 of On Liberty.

First, the other person’s idea, however controversial it seems today, might turn out to be right. (“The opinion … may possibly be true.”) Second, even if our opinion is largely correct, we hold it more rationally and securely as a result of being challenged. (“He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that.”) Third, and in Mill’s view most likely, opposing views may each contain a portion of the truth, which need to be combined. (“Conflicting doctrines … share the truth between them.”)

For Mill, as for us, this is not primarily a legal issue. His main concern was not government censorship. It was the stultifying consequences of social conformity, of a culture where deviation from a prescribed set of opinions is punished through peer pressure and the fear of ostracism. “Protection, therefore, against the tyranny of the magistrate is not enough,” he wrote. “There needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling.”

Mill never pretended that this would be easy, either at a personal or political level. The humility and openness that is required is hard-won. Our identity as a person must be kept separable from the ideas we happen to endorse at a given time. Otherwise, when those ideas are criticized, we are likely to experience the criticism as an attack upon our self, rather than as an opportunity to think about something more deeply and to grow intellectually. That’s why education is so important. Liberals are not born; we have to be made.  

That’s why it would be a good idea for all students to read Mill’s arguments for free speech (and there’s even a free illustrated edition, titled All Minus One available from Heterodox Academy, edited and with an introduction from Jonathan Haidt and myself, which I’ve drawn from a little here.)

Mill has become relevant again as the primary intellectual target for post-liberal scholars like Patrick Deneen and Adrian Vermeule. For them, Mill’s writings are the headwaters of an atomistic, anti-institutional liberalism that has led to a hollowed-out culture.

In his influential book, Why Liberalism Failed, Patrick Deneen is clear that Mill is the principal villain. “Society today has been organized around the Millian principle that ‘everything is allowed,’ at least so long as it does not result in measurable (mainly physical) harm,” he writes. “We live today in the world Mill proposed. Everywhere, at every moment, we are to engage in experiments in living…”

Yeah, no. That’s mostly not the world we live in. And it is certainly not the world Mill proposed. Deneen accuses Mill of being the “midwife” to a “deeper liberal imperative to equalize individuals' opportunity to be liberated from entanglements with others, particularly from the shared cultural norms, institutions, and associations that bind a people's fate together.”

Crediting Mill as a founder of progressive thought, Deneen goes on: “Progressivism aims above all at the liberation of an elite whose ascent requires the disassembling of norms, intermediating institutions, and thick forms of community, a demolition that comes at the expense of these communities’ settled forms of life.”

As a description of Mill’s moral philosophy this is absolute nonsense. It is of course true that Mill worried about the tyranny of custom. He wanted people to be reflective about the plan for their own life, and the extent to which it was compatible with customary forms of life. The claim that Mill wanted to set a wrecking ball on every custom, every institution, every tradition is one that could only be made by someone who has either not actually read Mill, or who is engaging in some egregious misrepresentation. It’s not even a straw man. It’s just a pile of straw.

Here’s what Mill wrote in On Liberty (with my emphases):

“No one’s idea of excellence in conduct is that people should do absolutely nothing but copy one another. No one would assert that people ought not to put into their mode of life, and into the conduct of their concerns, any impress whatever of their own judgment, or of their own individual character. On the other hand, it would be absurd to pretend that people ought to live as if nothing whatever had been known in the world before they came into it; as if experience had as yet done nothing towards showing that one mode of existence or of conduct, is preferable to another. Nobody denies that people should be so taught and trained in youth as to know and benefit from the ascertained results of human experience. But it is the privilege and proper condition of a human being, arrived at the maturity of his faculties, to use and interpret experience in his own way. It is for him to find out what part of recorded experience is properly applicable to his own circumstances and character. The traditions and customs of other people are, to a certain extent, evidence of what their experience has taught them; presumptive evidence, and as such, have a claim to this deference…”

Mill’s view on tradition and custom, then, is that they are very likely to contain the wisdom of the ages, of the accumulated weight of human experience and, yes, of experiments in living. That’s why it would be absurd to ignore them, and why they have a presumptive claim to our deference. But Mill also insists that we should not follow tradition and custom blindly. We should “use and interpret experience.” Mill believes that customs and traditions not only can change over time, but that they should. The alternative, which is Deneen’s only defensible position, is that somebody somewhere should decide, at some point in time, that our traditions and customs be cast in stone. 

Deneen is wrong about Mill, and thus wrong about liberalism, and therefore wrong about everything.

Even though the post-liberals are unwilling to engage with the real Mill, as opposed to their ersatz version, it is a testament to his lasting value that he is still the primary target. Mill spent his life thinking about and working for a society that could balance the value of continuity with the necessity for innovation and progress. Again, nobody said it was easy, a lesson we seem to be learning all over again. But if we need inspiration, we’ll always have Mill.

==

We forgot to keep fighting for liberalism as, like science, an ongoing process rather than a destination. This blink in attention opened the door for the anti-liberalism of both the post-liberal woke and the pre-liberal religious who want to take it away from us and implement their own particular hellscapes. We got so used to liberalism that we took it for granted and became complacent. When we get it back, we need to learn from this mistake.

[modern-oedipus]

Hey , i just want know are you okey ? Are you alive ? Because youre not been here for a long time and i just wonder . Loveyou <3 <3

Hello! Thank you for checking up on me! I am doing well. I shifted my focus from the online platforms to different priorities, so I am not checking my social media as often, but I am really doing great! I’m also here with good news that I want to accounce while responding to this ask:

I am writing Conflict!

Important parts of previous chapters are being rewritten, polished and edited for a better reading experience. Chapter 20 is on the way!

I have been working on it for last two weeks by now! I wanted to post the new chapter on Norman’s birthday, but reviewing the previous chapters take way longer than I anticipated. I am also adding some author’s notes to update about what I changed in the fic or how I am feeling compared to then-vs-now! I am putting more emphasis on the trigger warnings as well!

Right now I am editing chapter 11. I am directly editing on AO3 and posting whatever progress is done, then I go back to it, so if you check the chapters you may come across to live-time edits! As I explained in detail at the author’s notes of Chapter 1, I don’t aim to edit or rewrite the whole story; doing that would be against the fic’s soul and it wouldn’t feel the same anymore. I’m just doing some reconstruction work, I am trying to keep my writing style as it was back in 2019, add some details and in-depth descriptions of some scenes, explain the little plot holes, fix the formatting issues, etc. I am doing this both to remember the story better before writing Chapter 20 and so on (Chapter 20 is not the final chapter, so I am thinking about giving more regular updates since I am getting my momentum back) and to confront the times I was writing it.

I kept back from announcing it here and just silently edited it, though a reader realized it on first day and commented on Chapter 1 and I felt the happiest to know that they were still here! I am going to reply back to the comments I received within 1 year, as well!

My plan is to finish editing and reviewing all of the chapters 1-19. Then I am going to make a full Google Drive doc with detailed, spoiler-containing Trigger Warning for each chapter. Then I’ll publish Chapter 20. After that, I’ll respond to the comments. I think after all of this long and tedious committed work, I can just keep updating regularly. That’s the plan if it all goes well!

On a good note! I am also adding Chapter Songs! Those are the songs I used to listen while I was writing Conflict. I really thought they are fitting to certain chapters. I didn’t write any chapters with a specific song on my mind, in fact, I discovered those songs for Conflict aesthetic instead, but either way they are really fitting! So I am editing and updating as I go, to the songs I find relevant.

Reconstruction of chapters 1-10 is complete and I am consistently working on the next ones, so if you want please check it out! ❤️

On a side note, I am aware that it has been sooooo long, so I wasn’t really expecting anyone except for a few people I know in-person, to read Conflict again! I mean, I am not even offended or anything, most of us have sort of moved on from hyperfixations we had back in 2019, myself included. But I have my personal reasons to go back to checking Conflict. On the day I started editing, I was telling myself, “It is okay if no one notices. I don’t even want to make an announcement. I’ll just quickly take a tour on AO3.” but I received a comment on it on the morning of it, despite not making a single announcement! It just… made me happy beyonds words can express.

I don’t know if I would go so far in editing/rewriting if I did not KNOW for the fact that, some people are definitely interested! I know that because they went out of their way to let me know! All the comments I have been receiving within this year, all the asks, dm-s, everything summed up and gave me the Courage to keep writing.

So, once again. Thank you. All of you. I’m looking forward to enjoying the ride with you! ❤️

[uboat53]

I've read and seen a few things recently that have sparked a thought, LONG RANT (TM) time while I work it out?

INTRODUCTION

So, about a week ago, I read a piece on Tumblr by Cory Doctorow in which he argues that the right side of the American political spectrum has become so enamored of property rights that it cannot focus on human rights. I also recently watched a clip of George Carlin on Real Time With Bill Maher from some time ago talking about the situation after Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans in which Bill Maher made the following point:

"…as if, in the middle of this crisis where so many people are dying already, what we need to do is shoot Tyrone because he's getting out of Circuit City with some soggy tweeters."

I'll link both of these at the bottom if you're interested in checking them out, they're both fascinating reads/listens on their own.

The thought this sparked in me is this: one cannot successfully promote human rights if they are placed equal to property rights, and this is the fundamental problem with any attempt that the right-wing, be it the MAGA movement, the conventional right, or the libertarian right, to make people's lives better. This gets a bit into the weeds, but let me work through this because I think it's important.

CAPITALISM VS. CAPITALISM

The first thing we have to address is the term "capitalism" which gets thrown around by the right and the left with barely a care in the world. The thing is, they mean two different things when they say it.

When the right says "capitalism", they really mean free-markets. In other words, their capitalism is just the economic idea that supply and demand will determine a natural cost for any good or service and that any other form of intervention will distort that natural cycle. Based on my experience, this is what most Americans think of when they think of the word capitalism.

When the left says "capitalism", on the other hand, they're talking about an economic, philosophical, and political system in which capital is prioritized over labor. For example, it can mean that capital is taxed at lower rates than labor and laws prioritize the protection of capital over the protection of labor. They've had a hard time talking to people about this because, well, that's not what most people think of when they hear the word capitalism and people on the left tend to be terrible communicators in general which is a whole other issue.

The reason I focus on this is because I'm going to be focusing on the left's version of "capitalism". Unfortunately, I don't have a better word for it, so I wanted to very clear what I meant before I started. We're talking about a system where capital is prioritized over labor, not a system of supply and demand.

RENT SEEKING

Before we discuss things in a bit more detail, there's one more concept that I need everyone to have in their heads. One of the main reasons why unregulated markets tend to spiral into oligarchies is a phenomenon known as "rent seeking". Rent seeking is, according to the Wikipedia article, "the act of growing one's existing wealth by manipulating the social or political environment without creating new wealth." This can happen by manipulating regulations, but it can also happen simply by using the power of property to lock out competition.

Here's the Wikipedia article itself if you're interested.

Let's take, for example, someone who owns land. A person who develops capital and wealth by improving that land is not rent seeking, but a person who simply owns the land and charges for its use is. This person adds nothing to the collective wealth of a society and simply siphons the existing wealth into their own pocket by virtue of the ownership of property.

In any functional, real-world economy, there will always be some degree of rent seeking, but when capital is valued over labor, then rent seeking can grow to the point where it threatens the stability of the system. Not only are rent seekers unproductive, they actively drain resources from productive activities, making them particularly damaging to the prosperity of a society.

PREFERENCE FOR CAPITAL OVER LABOR

I mentioned a system that values capital over labor, so let me expand a bit on that. In our system, the highest long-term capital gains rate, the rate at which capital gains are taxed, is 20% for high income individuals. The highest income tax rate is 37%. I should note that "long-term" isn't actually all that long, you only have to hold an asset for a year for it to fall under this bracket.

In other words, if you make over $44,726 (as of the 2023 tax year), you're better off making that income as a capital gain than by working for it.

This is the most obvious thing I mean by a preference for capital over labor, but there are hundreds of small and hidden ways that we favor capital as well. There are tax incentives that state and local governments give to capital investment, there is the fact that wage theft is overwhelmingly the largest crime in dollar value in the United States yet is rarely prosecuted, and there is the proliferation in the last few decades of right-to-work laws which were designed to undermine unions with no similar effort to undermine groups that advocate for capital.

I could go on and on and on but the basic conclusion is this: in hundreds of ways both large and small over the last several decades, the United States has systematically advantaged capital and disadvantaged labor to the point where it is far more advantageous to own capital and even rent seek than it is to work.

THE ECONOMIC PROBLEM WITH ABSOLUTE PROPERTY RIGHTS

Now to property rights. If we look carefully, our system which advantages capital also advantages rent seeking as it does not discriminate between the productive and unproductive use of capital. There are certainly limits, a machine that is unused provides little profit, but things like land, buildings, and even machinery can provide profits to their owners even when those owners take little or no effort to improve them.

In fact, there are many investments in which rent seeking, perversely, may be MORE profitable than productive improvement due to the costs of improvement. In economic theory this is impossible as other productive investments would exist that could provide greater profit due to their productivity. In the real-world, however, inefficiencies exist that mean that this is often not the case.

In a healthy society, these inefficiencies would be addressed by regulation and policy, but a belief in absolute property rights prevent these remedies. When taxation and other, similar, methods are off the table, it makes it impossible to correct for these inefficiencies. This leads to a situation where more and more wealth is eventually captured by unproductive assets and activities, diminishing the overall wealth of society and, thus, diminishing human well being.

THE HUMAN PROBLEM WITH ABSOLUTE PROPERTY RIGHTS

The other problem with property is the simple question of what happens when someone does not have enough of it to meet their material needs? Certainly not everyone needs an X-box, but there are people, for example, who need life saving or even just health preserving care but cannot afford it. I think the rights to life and health can generally be accepted as the most basic of human rights, so how to achieve them?

Well, in just about every system that has ever been able to meet these needs, the solution is simple: property is taken in some form or another from those who have more than enough to meet their needs and used to help those who do not have enough do so. This is true for just about every type of civilization that has ever existed, from simple tribal groups to the modern administrative state, and every failure to meet those human rights stems from a failure to redistribute resources to meet them.

However, once property rights are elevated to the same level as human rights or higher, then this it no longer becomes possible to satisfy human rights. At the most basic level, human rights require some form of currency in order to meet and, if it is not possible to take that currency, it is no longer possible to satisfy those rights.

I should note that there are some who claim that this should be voluntary rather than mandatory, but I think it's a fair point to make that no voluntary system has ever come close to doing as much to meet basic human rights as mandatory systems have and the onus is on anyone who argues this to provide evidence that this is even possible.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE RIGHT

Once you put all of this together, the fundamental problem with the way the right-wing of our political system places property rights equal to human rights becomes clear. A system in which no private property can be taken in a legal way creates a scenario in which rent seeking siphons more and more wealth from the productive economy AND there is no way to use this wealth to meet the material human rights needs of those who will be immiserated by this condition.

I should note that I'm not caricaturing the position of the right here, the belief that property rights are equivalent to human rights is a widespread one. You can see it, for example, when the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire declares that publicly produced, free insulin is equivalent to the enslavement of African-Americans because it interferes with the property rights of pharmaceutical companies or simply the monomaniacal Republican focus on tax cuts and opposition to tax increases to "let people keep what they earn" as the solution to just about every problem.

In every case, for those on the right, property rights have not only become equal to human rights, they have become THE human right.

CONCLUSION

As I said, I'm still fleshing this out, but I think it's clear that treating property as an inalienable right prevents us from addressing basic human rights such as the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

If you've got any thoughts or questions, I'd be very interested to hear them. I hope you enjoyed this or at least found it thought provoking.

ADDENDUM

If you're interested, here is the Cory Doctorow piece I read that discusses this issue from a different perspective.

And this is the episode of Real Time with Bill Maher that I mentioned earlier.

[petrichoraline]

⭐️Getting to know your BL mutuals⭐️ (2022 Edition)

Simple, answer the questions. @ some people. Include the tag 'g2ky BL mutuals 2022' on your post so we can find everyone's answers!

some MDL links included

mostly spoiler free?

i watched bls from the past 8 years in the span of half a year, i have OPINIONS but i'll stick to the premise

wrote for hours then checked the tag and realised im gonna have to keep it simple so this is the dry version of a full on essay lol

What has been the BL that took you by surprise this year?

Secret Crush on You was so unique i just kept laughing at the insane sexual chemistry combined with the "what if he doesn't like me"; daisy, touch and som were everything to me; i watched it cause of positive reviews tho, wasn't there while it was airing

i got to experience Big Dragon Season 1 though - went into it intending to enjoy it after 3eps were out but i got really attached to mangkorn, yai and their relationship; wasn't interested in the nsfw scenes, just yai's big brown eyes

What has been the BL that you felt a bit disappointed with this year?

The Eclipse - truth is i initially loved it, definitely had fun with the later eps too but took issue with the pacing (some things time was spent on vs quick wrap up); plus the trailer vibe was quite different -not inherently bad, just smth that disappointed me a bit; i acknowledge the show was definitely not made for me though 📏

What has been your favorite BL this year?

KinnPorsche - i enjoyed it immensely while it was running - now im annoyed with it; the acting was great, the chemistry was undeniable, the plot was exciting, had me gripping my chair

special mention: fifa wwc tiktoks

What are your favorite BL couples (not just of 2022)?

actors (as couples, i like a lot of individual actors but not the couples theyre a part of):

BounPrem (two episodes of Between Us are all the introduction i need, they are extraordinary)

MaxTul (the comfort they bring me.. it's like they're meant to stand by each other)

characters (a lot of them get on my nerves but the heart wants what it wants):

Ou Wen and Mark - they're so!! aside from the chemistry, the characters are fun on their own and chaotic together, their story is unique too, skipping through the whole show for their scenes only with a compilation opened on the side was worth it

Seojoon and Jiwoo - TMS2 made me go from barely interested into insanely invested in their relationship

PatPran - a couple this powerful is rare

Shao Fei and Tang Yi - shao fei's openness and the way he cares, how tang yi stops and listens to him, i gotta rewatch for them only

Zhou Shu Yi and Gao Shi De - honestly they're a bit questionable to me but also the ride or die type which i respect, that one deleted scene from Fighting for Mr.Second keeps popping in my head

HiraKiyoi - they are so perfect in their twistedness

VeeMark - YES i said what i said, they can make it work, i believe in them

Kang Gook and Han Taejoo - the ONLY thing they lack is a proper kiss

both

Seoham and Jaechan (waiting for jaechannie to get his ring and brag on Jaechan's Dream lmao)

Jaeyoung and Sangwoo (unhinged upfront pursuer x adorable closed-off pursuee in an enemy-to-lovers romcom? pls)

If you had to suggest a BL for someone what would it be?

if you want:

to turn your brain off for a while:

8.2 Byo no Hosoku - smth to play in the bg, really, not everyone appreciates the humour (that i think is fully intentional), you learn a bit about the history of famous confections too, it's cute

something refreshing:

Kimi no Koto Dake Mite Itai - i don't have the words to describe it, maybe i didn't understand it too well? but that's a part of the charm, it's magical (read Metamorphose no Engawa cause of it too)

to save time:

Kabe Sa Doujin Sakka no Neko Yashiki-kun wa Shouninyokkyuu wo Kojiraseteiru - about 3 hours total, made me actually lol, really soft emo x sunshine with a dark side

What's your non-BL favorite for this year?

oh, the way Love Between Fairy and Devil just pops by reflex...the fl who shows common sense where many fls before her have failed meets the ml who wants to off her from the getgo (but dammit this curse won't let him and now he's a plant dad) and the greatest love the three realms have ever seen blooms and burns 🥰 no but seriously, story, character arcs, acting (my gosh the acting, the body switches had me floored, was stunned to hear dylan isn't usually considered that good of an actor, he slayed this, no one else can ever be the supreme lord); also enjoyed not being bothered about the sml; i didn't mention THE WARDROBE and stylingg and hairr, i could go onnnn

thank you for the tag, @gillianthecat💓

i don't have many moots and even less i actually interact with often so i'd love to see your answers but please don't feel pressured to do this! (i tried checking if you've done it or been tagged before, could have missed smth) @howitrulyam @chicademartinica @bnprm @sugarbabywenkexing @voicesofreasons ; anyone who sees it and wants to do it should consider themselves tagged by me tho 🤗 would love to see it

[psychewritesbs]

even though I do not mind the weekly or bi weekly chapter releases and enjoy them, I kind of wish I would wake up one day and the final chapter of jjk would be here lol

I mean this as like the time left with the series is fast forwarded. I don't like rushing in any context, but I feel like I want to know the ending before I fall out of love with the series. I've enjoyed what gege has given in the story so far, but there is plenty of choices I would say I do not agree with imo. He seems like he has a vision of how things need to go, but getting there seems to have some issues. I also kind of hate it when authors say they want to end the story especially when it feels like it will be rushed, and is JJK's case it's sometimes hard to enjoy the story after its been said bc I'm just wondering if we're spending too much time on one thing before we need to move to the next point, but I'll still try to see the story's good and the bad and enjoy what I can. I'm going to reread the culling game arc soon, but I feel like those first fights were about gaining allies, but I can say I wasn't expecting it to go like that if that was the intention. I don't mind kenjaku having secret plans bc it's obvious when it comes to them, but I feel as though that plan overshadowed the point of the cg?? I thought there would be more focus of to kill or not, etc and I see that the most for megumi and yuji (they had my fav colony battles), and I get it somewhat with yuta, but I dont see it too importantly with hakari or maki. I'm going to reread the arc regardless because I can always be confused or a bit slower in catching on so forgive me if my insight is lackluster. I liked the running themes during yuki vs kenjaku, but her "death" felt very unnecessary because she seemed really important in achieving a curse free world and idk about you but that seems like an important goal imo and yeah someone else could lead that charge but what was wrong with yuki doing that? I don't know, but I can only hope the remaining part of the story alongside its ending is something not only we can gain some satisfaction with, but the author too can look back and say, "hey it was pretty good at least"

Gege doesn't seem to drop the ball too much with Yuji or at least megumi too, and I'm not too worried since they're my characters of interest currently, but I want to reread this story and actually believe it when I say I thought all the cast was good and I believe the writing can be better or can get worse (idk) but time will tell it all. I'm a recurring anon, so I'm sorry if the apologies are constant and sound like emails at the end 😅

Dear Recurring Anon,

HOLA! Thanks for being my recurring anon and reaching out again!

Ok but listen... I’ve been sitting on your ask for a while thinking of what I wanted to say and how to say it. I’ve probably started 3 different drafts for my response. So thanks for your patience!

Truth of the matter is that when I read your words, what it comes down to is that, even though you don’t like the recent direction the manga has taken, Jujutsu Kaisen still holds an important place in your heart. 

So I think the most important question to keep in mind is that, in a story like JJK where the strongest sorcerers have the most overwhelming sense of self... where does your sense of self stand in all of this?

What do you want to take with you from JJK? 

The stuff you didn’t like because it didn’t live up to your expectations? 

Or the stuff you loved even though JJK was incredibly flawed?

Of course there’s more word vomit under the cut lol... you know how I roll.

I’ll start by asking you to forgive me if I’m wrong and you just really needed a container where your thoughts on the current state of JJK would be honored and acknowledged. The truth is that I totally get where you’re coming from. 

I do. 

I hear you.

It’s just that it’s in my perhaps annoying nature to be stupidly optimistic even when I am being a realist. There’s always a silver lining to everything if you are willing to make the effort to find it. 

So, yes, I agree, and I’m also going to challenge you to find a way to continue loving JJK if that’s what you want for yourself.

That said... lets get on with the bitching lol.

Problems with JJK, problems everywhere!

Your concern regarding the pacing in the story is something that I share with you. Most especially the concern that, moving forward, Gege is going to cut corners. I’d also say that at this point this “concern” is factually canon lol. 

I also agree so much with the sentiment of “is he taking too much time on this when he should be addressing this other plot point?” And I think nothing captures that dilemma quite like the Culling Game arc does--ESPECIALLY with the way he handled the chosoyuki ordeal.

Like we got pages upon pages of all of these characters and exposition and dialogue and like... wait, what was the point of the Culling Game again? 

Why has no one died yet?! 

Why is Yuta kissing a cockroach and why are Kashi-chan and Kin-chan trying to see who has the biggest ego (pun intended)? 

Like I swear for weeks I've been like “ok it’s going down!!!! yeah here comes the angst and the deaths aaaaaaand ok never mind then.... maybe next chapter? ok.... next chapter? ok next chapter for sure. no? next chapter?”

FOR WEEKS! It’s all recorded in my chapter liveblogs lol.

Truth is, to me, the Culling Game is a weird arc because I am still trying to understand its significance within the larger Jujutsu scheme of things.

Perhaps he bit more than he could chew with the Culling Game? And as a writer myself I find this kind of relatable. I’m actually seeing what is happening with JJK and taking note of how having too many themes and plot lines can ultimately be detrimental to a story if you can’t, or are unable to execute them all to a satisfying conclusion.

So to your point about re-reading the Culling Game arc... let’s hope that Gege manages to bring it all full circle. But as things stand right now, we’re in the middle of whatever Gege has in mind so it’s hard to see the forest for the trees.

What I’ll say is that I have enjoyed parts of it with reckless abandon...

Literal picture of me reading through the absolutely ridiculous battle between Kashi-chan and Kin-chan:

I also think that, at best, we have gotten in-depth character studies (because Gege is harping on the idea about the sense of self being at the core of power in JJK) and needed exposition. 

For example, even though Naoya coming back was soooooo cringe to me, I can still see the purpose it served in the narrative. Did I enjoy the journey? Not really. Same for Maki’s development.

The thing is that even if I agree with you on everything I just mentioned... I can’t unsee the story written between the lines even if the execution of the panels falls short, because I am always reading at a meta level.

I am passionate about story telling and how stories move humans, so to me, now that I’ve seen and acknowledge these flaws in the work, reading JJK is less about what’s on the panels, and more about the story he is trying to tell on a meta level through the panels.

My chosoyuki meta is a great example of me recognizing the story being told between the lines. And once I went down all of the rabbit holes I went down, even though I agree wholeheartedly that the execution fell short, the story told in the symbols was amazing to me. It honestly made me wish that Gege would have had the patience, time, energy, and space to birth that side story into the world the way it deserved to be told.

To me, I want Gege to be able to ground his vision onto the page, but if he is not able to, I’m still there for the “story” told between the lines because there’s so few mangaka whose imagination has captivated me.

In the end, as you say, it does feel like Gege is struggling to ground his vision into the page. And it kind of does suck because we, as an audience, have to work that much harder to understand the story he is trying to tell.

But the story being told is still there... so now it’s up to you to decide what you want to focus on: the flop, the bad execution, the failed attempt, JJK not living up to your expectations, or Gege, the flawed human behind the manga, trying and showing up.

What is good enough for you? That’s something for you to decide. 

I’m not saying to ignore the execution. 

I’m saying to remember that this is Gege’s first manga and that JJK is not what it started as--but not because it’s gotten worse, but rather because JJK is now more like Gege than it has ever been... because in a story like JJK where the strongest sorcerers have the strongest sense of self... yadda yadda yadda.

Trust the process: life is a journey, not a destination

I think your concern that you want to experience the ending makes a lot of sense and feels very relatable even at this point in my life. 

But the truth is... 

Foregoing the journey in favor of the destination is a recipe for perpetual dissatisfaction. Look at what happened to Denji after he finally got to touch boobs!

Ok yeah, there’s a lot more to it than that in this particular case but the concept still applies.

It also applies to JJK. Again, right now we can’t see the forest for the trees because Gege is executing a complex arc.

The timeline is confusing af, and I think it’s because he may be trying to pull a similar literary trick to what happened in Westworld’s season 1 and 2 where the timeline is scrambled out of order to purposely confuse and mislead the audience. 

Perhaps the timeline is out of order for another grand purpose. Perhaps he just thought it would be fun and wanted to try to execute a fun literary trick.

But we won’t know until he delivers--and delivering is a process, not a destination.

And you know what... if you still get to the end and realize that you didn’t like JJK and the latter part of the story ruined your love for JJK, well...

It’s personal

Dude like... I respect that people LOVE Chainsaw Man, and I also think Chainsaw Man is ridiculously overhyped. I’ve seen countless of videos with people hyping it as the all end be all of manga and that Fujimoto is a genius and...

I. 

just. 

don’t. 

get. 

it.

I am just not a fan of Fujimoto’s brand of navel-gazing existentialism. It feels so anti-climatic to me.

Does that mean that CSM objectively sucks and is bad?! No. It’s personal.

Similarly, I overhype the hell out of CLAMP manga, and I am also aware that people might read CLAMP manga and not like it. 

Even so, to me, the four women behind CLAMP are genius story-tellers.

Shameless Subaru and CLAMP plug because this is one of my favorite Tokyo Babylon panels.

It comes back to personal taste, right?

For me, I love JJK despite the flaws because I still love the story being told between the lines, I find Gege’s brand of ironic humor funny, and I like how the story has progressed. 

Say goodbye to mainstream, Gege’s work might become a cult classic moving forward

Now... I bring up Fujimoto and CLAMP to illustrate the idea that there are people who are going to be dedicated fans of a mangaka and their work, people who enjoy and appreciate their work but don’t necessarily love it,  people who are in it for the hype, and people who don’t like their work.

CLAMP’s Cardcaptor Sakura is mainstream hype. Tokyo Babylon and Clover are what you read when you’re a hardcore fan.

Fujimoto’s CSM is mainstream hype. Fire dude punch something something and Goodbye Eri is what you read when you’re a hardcore fan. 

Watanabe’s Cowboy Bebop is mainstream hype. Zankyou no Terror and Carole and Tuesday are what you watch when you’re a hardcore fan.

Akutami’s Jujutsu Kaisen is mainstream hype. 

Gege followed the Battle Shonen recipe, added his own twists, and created an accidental mega hit. In fact, oddly enough, JJK has always been known as a story that defies expectations and uses tropes in new and unexpected ways.

So what happened? Why are people not liking Gege’s current execution?

To me, there’s something about how JJK is written that has changed, and it has nothing to do with Gege’s ability to write, and everything to do with his sense of self, who he has become in the process of writing JJK, and what he wants to express through his work.

In other words, JJK is more like Gege than it has ever been. Some people are going to like that, and some are not. 

Truth is that Gege is one of the VERY few mangaka who can write beautiful, multidimensional, engaging and extremely human characters who are true to their nature and aspirations.

He also writes on a very meta level and you don’t see that very often... like at all. 

All this to say that I think this is why you see such vastly different reactions in fandom right now. 

Some people still think he’s a fantastic writer and that he’s writing a unique work that has transcended generic Shonen tropes (like yours truly), and some people think that the way JJK is right now is generic Shonen. I don’t understand this last take but...

Who is right?

Who holds THE ultimate truth?

It doesn’t really matter because it’s personal.

All I know is that I am going to keep up with anything Gege publishes moving forward because I like the story he is telling through JJK.

Above all, I’m curious to see what other stories want to be born through him into this world.

Now, I HIGHLY recommend you listen to this 20 minute Ted talk by Elizabeth Gilbert to understand what I mean when I say that Gege is giving birth to stories. Her talk is a mind-opening take on what happens to your sense of self when you accidentally write a mega hit, and how that in turn affects your creative process.

I don’t know that this is how Gege sees his work as a mangaka, but I have to wonder about the possibility that Gege, someone who has very clearly studied the psychology of Carl Jung, sees JJK as an exercise in creative imagination, and/or as a story he’s been handed from the collective unconscious.

His job as a mangaka is to show up and write, to play, to express himself creatively.

That means that sometimes what he writes is going to be magnificent in the eyes of others, and sometimes it’s going to fall short of everybody’s expectations.

And that’s what it comes down to... 

Expectations

I see a lot of people complain about JJK failing to live up to their expectations without acknowledging that their expectations are simply that, expectations.

There’s nothing wrong with having expectations per se, and it is also important to realize when expectations are defining what we think is and isn’t good enough. 

And let’s not forget that you too probably don’t live up to other’s expectations. Does that mean that your effort too isn’t good enough? Gosh now I sound like Lacus.

Again... who holds the ultimate truth?

In the end, Gege is the one telling the Jujutsu Kaisen story. 

I also cannot emphasize enough that Gege is also a mangaka in the very early stages of his writing career. 

I don’t buy that his writing was better in the beginning of JJK. 

Quite the opposite, I see his writing AND art in the beginning of JJK as having followed a recipe: the three man team, found family, the strong mentor figure, etc... all the tropes are there executed in fresh and unexpected ways. 

But that was 5 years ago. Again... in a story like JJK where the strongest sorcerers have the strongest sense of self... what does that mean for Gege?

That said, Gege isn’t following the same recipe anymore, he’s coming up with his own recipe and he’s learning how to write his own recipe.

This is not to make excuses for him, it’s just something to think about because most people aren’t born naturally talented at anything that requires mastery, and writing is a craft that requires mastery through execution. 

As a quick side note, if you read Tokyo Babylon and Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle by CLAMP, the 10+ year gap between both manga shows a marked improvement in the writing. AND EVEN THEN CLAMP MANAGED TO FUCK UP THE TSUBASA PLOT!

In other words, Gege has to fail to get better. 

Now add to that the pressure of a weekly publishing schedule that dampens the creative process with tight deadlines, and then on top of that having to draw the whole thing. I’m exhausted just thinking about it.

Gosh, if I had to guess, I would have to say Gege is ready for an extended vacation. 

But, as you say, I also just want for him to be satisfied with his story. 

As for us being satisfied with his story... well, it depends on what we choose to focus on.

Will you focus on how he failed at executing his vision?

Will you focus on the beautiful story he told between the lines?

Or will you focus on how how he managed to tell a beautiful story despite failing at the execution?

Can you hold the tension of opposites?

Ok SO SORRY this took me so long to get back to you my dear recurring anon. I just had so many thoughts because, like I said before, I agree with you, and I also wanted to challenge you to see things a little differently without being patronizing.

In the end, you want to continue to love JJK, right? 

So love JJK! 

Acknowledge its flaws and be at peace with them for the sake of that love. Nothing is perfect.

Anyways, I love that we can be in conversation about this and that you have come to me to share your thoughts on jjk. 

Merci beaucoup.