#and these same people definitely have no regard for real gay/bi men and their experiences

[newsatsix1986]

With the words that have been shared by some members of The Newsreader's community in the recent month or two, it's been a complex minefield for me to navigate. Outwardly I have appeared happy and business as usual, but internally it's been a bit different.

The Newsreader to me and many others is a mixture of a lot of things; beautiful stories of connection between complex characters, strong, lovable characters we can see ourselves in and can be inspired by, and stories from history that are compelling, joyous and also harrowing and gutwrenching. I try to focus on everything here at News At Six 1986, and to further tell all the stories that the writers have started, with as many characters as I can utilise for this.

For a good while this month I have been finding myself second guessing a lot of things I've done in relation to my content. It's been like I've felt alienated from the community just because I wasn't further fuelling the fire of a certain headcanon ship, and offering a holistic experience and a perspective that was different to that. Was I really seeing the show the wrong way because I personally don't follow that narrative eagerly? Was I the weird one to see it as being more than just the Dale and Tim show and wanting to create fan content focused on more than that? Was there even a place for my content at all? Some things said in relation to Dale and his sexuality - both explicitly and in a round about way - have also hit very personally for me as a bi girl too, making me question myself in that regard too; something that I shouldn't be made to feel or do.

With the reassurance of some wonderful people behind the scenes, I have reconciled that there IS a place for what I create, and there are definitely some people that will appreciate it. So continuing along this path is something that I shall do!

I want this post to serve as a gentle reminder. It is okay and lovely to fiercely love a ship in a show, but it is not kind at all to go on the posts of people who offer the different perspective to try to derail it or dissuade them from it, nor is it okay to say that the writers have made a "mistake" by not following through on your personal wishes for the show. I am personally Helen × Dale, but I will never go on someone's Dale × Tim post to dissuade them. There was one user here on Tumblr I had to block due to harrassment on my posts and also showing similar disrespect to friends and the writer's vision for his own show.

It's also vital that you ensure the way you do discuss Dale and his sexuality does not intentionally or unintentionally perpetuate messages of biphobia. He wouldn't be automatically happier if he had an intimate relationship with Tim - his self-acceptance journey is more complex than that - and his queer identity is just as valid when he's in a relationship with Helen. I wasn't any less queer when I was with my ex-boyfriend; for example, nor was I just gay in denial. My complex feelings about my self-acceptance wouldn't be automatically resolved if I had a girlfriend; there's more to it than that. Both sets of feelings co-existed genuinely. The world is more than just gay and straight - the in between exists, and as this show stands right now, that's what it represents.

Also please ensure that how you speak about Helen doesn't further spread mental health stigma or underlying misogyny - holding her to a higher standard than the male characters for the times she might make rash decisions, voices her opinions, or struggles. She should be afforded the same empathy as Dale in her moments of crisis. The show is a dual lead and her story matters too.

Michael Lucas - the show's creator - has made it very clear that Dale's love and attraction and need for intimacy with Helen is real, whilst obviously acknowledging his attraction to men, and that both characters don't neatly fit into labels in relation to their sexuality (Dale) and mental health struggles (Helen); that there is a purposeful sense of ambiguity and an unconventional nature to their relationship, but the love and care between them is undeniable. They sit authentically in the mess of life, and many have identified with them, including myself. I see myself in both of them. How lucky we are to have them, and they both should be celebrated, supported and accepted as such. As should everyone in general.

~ Erin 💖

[will80sbyers]

I want to try to explain this better even if I probably can't elaborate as well as I would like to because my English is not perfect, forgive me for any mistakes and I hope this is understandable!

My tone is meant to be colloquial and not angry at all:

when I read some posts (not all) about why people think Mike is gay most of the ones I've read are worded as ''it is the absolute truth and you are wrong if you don't think that'' not as ''it is my opinion'' and that already is a bit off-putting to me because nothing is confirmed when we are talking about headcanons (we are not talking about the text of the show but the subtext for now, so you can't have facts on this, only interpretations)

but for that I don't care that much I just ignore the post and go on with my day, you are free to have your opinions at the end of the day and that is not a big problem

what becomes a bit of a problem to me, and starts feeling invalidating for my own identity (even if I'm sure you don't mean to do that!!! I'm not trying to attack anybody here, I'm explaining my reasoning) is when the reason for that thought process is that '' he didn't like any other girl except El, so this means he is gay 100% no doubts because his relationship with El is not working out''

why does this feel invalidating? Because saying that is inherently implying that bi or queer people in the bi spectrum have to show attraction a lot to a lot of different people to be valid in their identity, which I find dismissive because in reality you can have different levels of attraction for different genders without it meaning that you can't identify as bi

As I said, if Mike actually did like only El but likes more men than women, that shouldn't mean FOR SURE that his bi identity is not valid and that his crush on El is just comphet

Mike could definitely be gay, he could be experiencing comphet and extreme internalized homophobia and I will never dismiss this because it would just be wrong to in my opinion, but on the other side of the fandom I see that people do not leave ANY space for doubt

and not leaving space for a little doubt when nothing is confirmed and basing this ''not having doubts'' on putting down real feelings and things bi or queer (because he could definitely not be exactly into labels etc) people go through in real life is not a good thing to do if you want to be accepting of ALL queer identities (ace ones too)

like, what I think personally about the show does not matter for this discourse, it is about keeping in mind different possibilities

also this is not about one single post or one single person, I've seen the same take over and over in different parts of the byler fandom - here, on twitter and tiktok too

and if you think Mike is more likely to be gay that is a completely valid take, what I want to ask of people in the byler fandom is to try to not invalidate different opinions or perspectives especially about identities because it is as much invalidating as someone saying that you can't possibly experience something that feels like a crush on the opposite gender if you are gay and I know for a fact that people in this fandom get angry (rightly so!) if you say it's impossible so I think the same feeling of regard should be extended to everybody until the show confirms or denies one of the two options

[doctor-looneys-remedy]

Bi-erasure, part 3

In the early 90's we had a small flurry of mostly people in the grunge and alternative music category claiming bisexuality as an identity. Some of these felt honest. Some felt, at least to the outsider, as if they were just grabbing onto another way of being alternative.

Bisexuality was there and a clear identity, but it still wasn't very real to most of us on a daily basis. Celebrities had a far greater distance from their audience than the parasocial relationships they have today. In college, I knew a lot of straight people, a good number of gay people, and a couple of people who said they were bi.

Pretty celebrities could be bisexual. Most people rolled their eyes and generally just didn't believe in the "Pretty alternative girl bisexual" that was typical in music. Some fanboys did, but largely, it was met with a "whatever."

Regular people who said they were bi were largely regarded as just gay men who hadn't figured it out yet, and unattractive, desperate women who willing to hop into bed with whoever came along. Beggars can't be choosers, after all.

Bisexuality wasn't an attraction pattern for the regular person, it was seen as a coping mechanism. It was cool for celebrities, but celebrities back then were just abstract beings separate from the rest of us in a way that doesn't exist today. It was what you resort to when you can't get the thing you naturally want.

In the few gay bars I had gone to, and even around the gay, lesbian and trans people I knew, there was a huge tendency to talk down about bisexual people. We didn't quite fit in, even among well-meaning members.

Of course, I have to address that one episode of Sex in the City. I don't know what bothers me more- that it was said, OR that people my age and older who should have fucking known better at that point in their lives took it as gospel because it appeared on a dramedy about a narcissistic disaster human who constantly acted like she and her friends just plain knew it all (even though their decisions were constantly made a point of proving how stupid they were.)

So, let's meet in the present.

We are more visible than ever. Still some battles, but definitely in a much better place than we were.

I am in a much better place than I was.

But we still have a few bones to pick:

Bisexual erasure happens every time when a bisexual person (usually a male) is called "gay" instead of bisexual, when they clearly call themselves bisexual. A woman who clearly identifies herself as bisexual is relegated to the label of "ally" instead of being called bisexual.

If I could put every single person inside my head to understand what it is I am experiencing to better explain it, I would. But I can't do that.

I am bisexual. I am physically attracted to mostly men, but sometimes also women. It is not something I choose. It isn't something I control. When I say attraction I mean the same attraction you experience when you see that hot movie star or musician - and you are attracted in a way that bypasses your thought process.

Believe me, my life would be much much easier if I was one thing or the other. But the pain and confusion could have been lessened if the word itself wasn't bogged down with the level of BS that it was. If I had lived in a world where someone could have explained literally any of it to me. If I had been made to feel as if I could be comfortable discussing it with literally anyone at all ever.

Gen X ... we have a hard time owning up to the shit we have done. I know a good 75% of us probably went to a drag show in 1997. So why, in this era of super hate, are we saying nothing? The books that Moms for Liberty is banning regularly were books that were required reading, that made us better people. No one cared if our feelings were hurt by legitimate historical facts, and we took all of that in and it made us better people.

There is a positive note from my high school experience:

My Lit teacher in high school wasn't weird about the solid possibility of Shakespeare's sexuality when we started reading poems he wrote about men. She just said, "People think he as probably bisexual." and we all took that in for a minute and went on with it. No fuss, no muss.

That is what I hope for. No Fuss, no muss. No screaming about how bi people are this, that and the other. No shit about how we are confused. No crappy attitudes. No censorship of a real thing about a real person in history.

[lesbianziyal]

bashir x garak is good in my head and literally nowhere else.

[twelvedaysinaugust]

There are way toooo many hookup rumours about Harry with men and women consistently throughout the years behind the scenes. Like this right here debunks larry for me. Larries each time saying everybody in industry knows. Well almost everybody in industry knows Harry is bi and nobody knows about Louis bcuz he is literally not that well know and hasn't mingled much in industry at all like Harry has. Harry and Louis were/are involved in some sense but truly larry as in the Tumblr masterpost theories is a conspiracy at this point. Harry and Louis both are not gay but bi. Larries saying we are the true support of boys whereas ironically they are the only section making it way harder for them bcuz you are basically just outing them everyday online.( Twitter insta specifically)

But see, this is exactly the kind of fandom discourse that gets really tedious, really quickly. Like, if some of Harry’s hookup stories are true, is that a death knell to Larry? No. Same if Louis is a father/effectively a father. I think it’s worth mentioning that the only definitive statement Harry has ever made about his sexuality is to say he doesn’t think he’s bisexual. That said, I recognize that people’s understanding of their own sexuality can change. I don’t rule out the possibility that one or both of them experiences attraction to women. It wouldn’t change my opinion very much either way. I am pretty positive that Larry is not an “open secret” in the industry, or even a widespread industry rumor (and I think there are reasons for that!). I think Larries probably do make Harry and Louis’ lives more difficult in some regards, especially with the beard-bashing and incessant speculation about that one topic in particular. But right now, it’s not Larries who are backing Harry into a corner and trying to force his hand.

And for me personally, I’m interested in Larry. I’m not particularly interested in Harry Styles and random hookups that may or may not have happened. I do think there are reasons why Larries continue to believe as they do (reasons I find more compelling than the fickle Hollywood rumor mill). And even if Larry isn’t real in the sense that Harry and Louis are a couple, it is real in the sense that an entire fandom exists around it, and Harry and Louis both continue to interact with it. And for those reasons, I continue to be interested in it. And I think it’s worth talking about.

[vampish-glamour]

Do you think same-sex-attracted people tend to be more GNC, or that's a media thing? I don't know any lesbians (some friends are political lesbians aka bi in denial), and every girl I know (be them str8 or bi) is conventionally feminine. I passed by 4 strangers today which stood out to me, as everyone else I met did not have the half-shaved/slight layer of hair/side-curtain look. I wondered, in passing, if the "traditional SGA dress-code" (which I know to be stereotypical) came from a real thing

(To clarify, I'm not saying any of them simply MUST have been SGA. Rather, what I'm trying to express is that, in my daily experience, gender non conformity is not a popular concept (never seen a woman with a tie, for example); therefore, I was wondering if this is something that simply comes up more in regards to SGA individuals, who coined butch and femme for autonomous description. Thanks for your time!)

This is actually something I find really interesting, because it’s definitely a trend I and I’m guessing most people notice. It’s very typical for gay stereotypes to be based off of being GNC (Hell, I had somebody tell me that “I think this woman is gay, because she doesn’t shave her legs and it’s usually just gay women who don’t shave”), so obviously it’s a noticeable trend.

My theory on it is that gay and bi people are in a way more free to experiment with gender non conformity. We already break the rules of “masculinity” and “femininity” by not being heterosexual, so I think for a lot of people it feels like there’s nothing to lose by going a bit further and dressing/acting/being GNC as well. As in, gay and bi people might feel less of an expectation to be gender conforming, since they biologically can’t conform to one of the most expected roles. Whereas for straight people they aren’t born outside of the masculine/feminine box, so there’s almost more of an expectation for them to stay in those boxes.

That might sound confusing, it makes sense in my head though lol. I could be completely wrong but I do think that it has some part of it?

There’s definitely negative stereotypes in media regarding SGA gender nonconformity, though. See; the comedically feminine gay guy who’s treated as an accessory for straight women, or the demonized masculine lesbian who’s treated as the butt of the joke and is “frumpy”.

I don’t like those, I find them wildly offensive because they’re almost always either fetishistic, tokenizing, or degrading. (Usually the first two for men, since SGA men tend to be glamorized, and the last for women since SGA women tend to be demonized).

I think that itself is just a media thing, although like all stereotypes I’m sure there’s people who fit those tropes irl.

Anyways, generally speaking, I don’t think it’s wrong to say that SGA people tend to be more GNC than straight people. That’s not to say that it’s some sort of rule though—since there’s plenty of gender conforming SGA people and plenty of GNC straight people.

And as I said I think part of it has to do with how SGA people sort of already break gender roles by being born gay/bi, so it’s less of a leap to be GNC than it would be for straight people.

Also even though butch and femme are really popular within lgbt circles I’ve heard that they’re not actually lgbt specific terms? I don’t really care enough about that specific topic to look more into it though lol.

[smute]

It's definitely not from a place of fear. I'm very very content about my identity. That's the whole point. If a label makes you feel afraid or feels restricting, it's most likely not the right one for you. I'm a lesbian because I'm not attracted to men and I wouldn't be even if there wasn't a label for that. And if I happen to be attracted to men at some point then that's 100% fine - I'd just be bi. But lesbianism is fixed and that's a-okay. Not everyone needs to be attracted to men and not everyone needs to have a fluid identity. The only issue is the stigma around switching labels once you figure out that a label is wrong for you and you are kinda contributing to that.

Also I'm literally non-binary and definitely am attracted to (some) non-binary people.

I'm also not conflating gender and orientation...? The only thing I said in that regard is that to lesbians and gay people, gender matters because our orientation is tied to the gender(s) we are attracted to and that's not "silly". I know that for many queer people gender (as in the genders of their potential partners) isn't as relevant but to us it is. And that's... okay.

congratulations on being a gold star lesbian and please understand that YOU can define YOUR identity however you want but that's not gonna change the fact that OTHER gays or lesbians don't feel compelled to switch labels because of a single incident that doesn't align with some binary definition of same-sex attraction. the original post isn't about discouraging people from switching labels and it's not suggesting that everybody is secretly bi. it just says that real life attraction comes in many forms and that our lived experiences are much more complex than some broad brush label can encapsulate. sexual attraction labels describe consistent patterns rather than absolute concepts. they're descriptive not prescriptive. i'm gay because over the course of my life i've generally been attracted to men and features i've learned to view as "masculine". if i make out with a hot stone butch tomorrow i won't be plunged into a crisis. i'll still be gay and i'm not gonna start dissecting my identity to figure out how i could possibly be attracted to someone with a masculine gender expression just because she's a *shrieks* woman 🤯 bam. queer attraction, plain and simple.

[thespacenico]

Hi! I just saw your post about asexuality and wanted to share for a sec!! I'm a trans queer guy who happens to be ace as well. I've not thought about it much actively, but I've never really considered myself as part of the lgbt community for my asexuality mainly because it's something I could keep to myself. Being trans was obvious for a while and will always impact me visibly. If I'm in a queer relationship, that's visible. Both have brought me far more strife than my asexuality (although with what you mentioned in your post, I'm sure my situation factors into that). I guess I've always separated my identities; if I want to talk about ace stuff (which is rare, to be fair) I'd go to aspec specific spaces. Otherwise, I go to more generally queer spaces. I mean this in a fully respectful way because I'm interested, but why do you group your "aceness" with your lesbian identity? I have interacted with other ace people outside of the internet and their perspectives wildly vary. I will say anecdotally that the "het" aces I know that consider themselves lgbt for their asexuality often speak over me on queer and trans issues. Personally, I feel there exists a deeper systemic issue regarding trans and queer discrimination than ace discrimination which is part of why I don't immediately consider my asexuality as lgbt or those heteroromantic people as lgbt. In another regard, asexuality obviously is a sexuality (as you mentioned), but I've found with the way my identity blends together, it just makes more sense to talk about that specific part of it with other ace people. I think I see the ace spectrum as a separate thing to measures of the types of people I'm attracted to and the type of person I am. Levels of attraction vs. identity and types of attraction in terms of identity, ya know?? I hope this doesn't sound aggressive!! I really want to hear more about your perspective as a fellow ace person. Most ace people I do regularly speak with who see themselves as lgbt choose that community because that's where they first learned about the label. Feel free to disregard all of this because I know it's long!!!

hi! thanks for sharing! you brought up a lot of good points so i’m gonna try to acknowledge/respond to all of them best i can! for the record, i think it’s worth pointing out that we’re both ace, but since it’s a spectrum there’s a really good chance that even we don’t experience it the same way, which is why discussion amongst the actual asexual community is super meaningful compared to discussion amongst allo people who have a very limited knowledge of asexuality to start with. all that being said, here’s my perspective on things! 

I've not thought about it much actively, but I've never really considered myself as part of the lgbt community for my asexuality mainly because it's something I could keep to myself. Being trans was obvious for a while and will always impact me visibly. If I'm in a queer relationship, that's visible.

that’s fair! i agree that it’s something we can keep to ourself, but why do we have to (or choose to) keep it to ourself? the why probably differs for most aspec people. in my case, i’m pretty vocal about my asexuality (on twitter at least), but in real life where i’m surrounded by straight cishet allo people, i keep it to myself because they wouldn’t understand it in the slightest, many of them would think i’m just trying to be special, etc. not only am i assumed to be straight (i’m not), but i’m also assumed to be allosexual (i’m not).

visibility is an interesting topic too because i think that’s when we veer into conversations about things like “straight-passing,” “cis-passing,” etc. at home i’m mostly still in the closet, but my identity is still very much real. it may not always be visible, but it’s definitely there! a visibly queer relationship is just one way our identities are put on display. but even then, sometimes two lgbtq+ individuals can be in a relationship and it’s not visibly queer — for example, two (or even one) bi people in a m/f relationship. to people outside of the community especially, it doesn’t look like a queer relationship, but it very much is.

all that to say, asexuality often isn’t visible per se, but there are many other identities that also lack visibility under certain circumstances, in a sense. that’s why i don’t personally consider visibility very much!

Both have brought me far more strife than my asexuality (although with what you mentioned in your post, I'm sure my situation factors into that). I guess I've always separated my identities; if I want to talk about ace stuff (which is rare, to be fair) I'd go to aspec specific spaces. Otherwise, I go to more generally queer spaces.

i can’t speak on your trans/queer experience specifically (and i’m sorry for the trouble people have given you for them), but this is also where i would personally say that just because asexuality doesn’t cause you as much strife as your being trans/queer, doesn’t mean that it’s not important or any less valid as part of your overall identity. asexuality aside for a moment, the lgbtq+ community has been historically oppressed and discriminated against, basically even before its official inception. this may not be realistic, but let’s say that 100 years from now, we're finally free of that oppression/discrimination. we don’t suddenly lose our place in the lgbtq+ community, do we? oppression doesn’t have anything to do with the validity of our respective identities, if that makes sense. other identities aren’t more or less valid depending on how oppressed they are. that’s my opinion on that! and like you mentioned, i think our personal situations definitely do affect our experiences in general. 

when it comes to talking about ace stuff, i think the point is that lots of us within the lgbtq+ community sometimes separate our identities in different ways, even those that aren’t ace, because there are often specific spaces within the community itself. sometimes lesbians need lesbian specific spaces, sometimes bi people need bi specific spaces, sometimes trans people need trans specific spaces, etc. it’s always much easier and more validating to talk to people who share your experiences. like you said, there are also aspec specific spaces! and yet, everyone within one of those specific spaces can have very different identities. as an ace lesbian, i might engage in a lesbian specific space without ever needing to talk about my asexuality, or engage in an aspec specific space without ever needing to talk about my lesbian identity. i’m not necessarily talking about every part of my identity all the time, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there. 

I mean this in a fully respectful way because I'm interested, but why do you group your "aceness" with your lesbian identity? I have interacted with other ace people outside of the internet and their perspectives wildly vary.

i think that for me specifically, i feel like my asexuality plays a veeery big part in how i experience attraction in general. i used to id as bisexual, but after a while i realized i wasn’t attracted to men at all and so began to id as lesbian. it wasn’t until then that i realized i was also ace, and that honestly threw me for a loop because for a while it made me wonder if i was bi after all (i’m not, but i thought about it for a while!). technically speaking, there are other labels i could use to describe my attraction, such as sapphic asexual or homoromantic asexual, although i think for the latter sometimes it depends on how a person feels about the split attraction model and how it can be applied. 

either way! it’s my experience that asexuality significantly influences how a person experiences attraction compared to allosexuals. i’d say that’s the main reason i “group” my aceness with my lesbian identity, because to me they’re intertwined.  

you’re right though about how the perspectives of ace people wildly vary! it’s super interesting to hear from other ace people what their thoughts are. i think for me it comes down to the fact that some ace people may not need a space specifically for their asexuality, and that’s okay! like you’ve mentioned, they typically don’t experience the same level of discrimination, at least not in the same ways, and sometimes it wholly depends on the kind of people you’re around and whether or not you’re out. many ace people do experience discrimination though and desperately do need that space, and i don’t see why the lgbtq+ community shouldn’t be for them as well, considering. there are certainly differences between issues involving asexuality and other identities like gay, lesbian, trans, etc. but there are differences between issues involving specifically those identities as well, and certain similarities between all of them.

I will say anecdotally that the "het" aces I know that consider themselves lgbt for their asexuality often speak over me on queer and trans issues. Personally, I feel there exists a deeper systemic issue regarding trans and queer discrimination than ace discrimination which is part of why I don't immediately consider my asexuality as lgbt or those heteroromantic people as lgbt. In another regard, asexuality obviously is a sexuality (as you mentioned), but I've found with the way my identity blends together, it just makes more sense to talk about that specific part of it with other ace people.

i know how frustrating it is to have people talk over you about issues that directly impact you and not them, and i’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that. i do think however that this sort of thing happens even within the lgbtq+ community all the time. this is in no way a justification or excuse for the people who have spoken over you, but just a comparison. i’ve seen tons of conversations (usually on social media) where lesbians will speak over bi women on bi issues, non-lesbians will speak over lesbians on lesbian issues, cis people will speak over trans people on trans issues, etc. it’s frustrating in any case, and it typically has to do with the fact that there’s a certain level of ignorance for almost everyone when it comes to an identity that’s not theirs. (am i making sense??) i even see allo people speak over aspec people on ace issues all the time as well. tldr - i’m not saying there’s not a specific underlying issue with the “het” aces who have spoken over you on those issues, but you can definitely draw comparisons to certain circumstances elsewhere within the community.

i 100% agree with your point that there is a much deeper systemic issue regarding trans and queer discrimination than ace discrimination. i think my view on that pretty much goes back to what i said earlier about how i don’t think discrimination or oppression determines the validity of an identity as an lgbtq+ identity. regardless, like you said about how you feel that it makes more sense to talk about your own asexuality with other ace people, i think sometimes it just comes down to how we perceive/experience our own identities! i often feel more isolated due to my asexuality more than i feel isolated due to my being a lesbian. that may not be the case for all aspec people, but it really impacts me personally.

I think I see the ace spectrum as a separate thing to measures of the types of people I'm attracted to and the type of person I am. Levels of attraction vs. identity and types of attraction in terms of identity, ya know??

that’s also fair! i think in my mind it’s just that aceness is part of my identity/is its own independent identity regardless of who i’m romantically attracted to. my asexuality would still exist whether i’m also a lesbian or not. i just happen to personally combine my identities (aka ace lesbian) because they’re both there and they influence each other. 

Most ace people I do regularly speak with who see themselves as lgbt choose that community because that's where they first learned about the label.

i’m glad you brought this up at the very end too!! i first learned about the label from the lgbtq+ community as well, but it took forever for me to realize that it described me. in my experience, asexuality is crazy misunderstood both in and out of the community. it took me weeks to months of doing my own research on asexuality to understand what it really is, and even then that there’s a spectrum. in regards to everything about this post, i think where an ace person falls on the spectrum might be a big factor that plays into what their experience is like and whether they feel they need a space like the lgbtq+ community. either way, the fact that most people first hear about asexuality from the community and the fact that we have our own flag and everything really speaks to all this. why not choose the lgbtq+ community since it’s already here, that’s where asexuality is often talked about, and that’s where people understand what it’s like to experience attraction that differs from the norm? 

anyway those are my thoughts!! it’s nice to be talking to someone else who’s actually ace rather than feeling like i’m having to preach to allosexuals who don’t think my asexuality matters period :’)

[thedevilscarnival]

melanie, barnabas, and fanshawe for the chara ask

oh hell yes. im gonna have fun here (under the cut because this got fucking LONG)

Melanie... melanie melanie melanie... i love you so much more now that ive finished season 4. queen. Sexuality Headcanon: lesbian!  Gender Headcanon: afab gnc. i feel like melanie experimented with being more femme while she was a youtuber and leaned more into the butch academic look while working at the archives. she will not admit it to anyone but she did take some inspiration on experimenting w/ her gender from jon. A ship I have with said character: what the girlfriends is Really good. can’t say i have much else besides that. A BROTP I have with said character: basira! both of them probably bonded a lot from being roped into all of this bullshit.  A NOTP I have with said character: uhh. can’t really think of one. unless its like incestuous or pedophilic but thats a no on principle  A random headcanon: georgie n melanie first met when ghost hunt uk was being interviewed on what the ghost. they exchanged numbers after that and started dating shortly after melanie first made her first statement at the institute.  General Opinion over said character: i really love her a lot now but i do wish people didn’t... only make her grrr angry slaughter all the time because she’s a great character on her own!! also she’s fat fuck you.  Barnabas... king of dying and being dead <3 Sexuality Headcanon: i flip between bi and gay a Lot. he likes men thats an easy answer. Gender Headcanon: amab nonbinary! im definitely in the pov that had he been born in a different time period he would have 100% experimented with his gender presentation and probably would’ve settled on something more feminine.  A ship I have with said character: im a jonahbas bitch through and through but barnshawe is Really good. fuck it lets do both jonahbarnshawe.  A BROTP I have with said character: I feel like he’d be friends with whatever iteration of simon fairchild was flying about. that guy’s been around for 500 years he can be friends with the sad little gay man.  A NOTP I have with said character: robert smirke. that was a real ass man. no. just no. A random headcanon: he has a job as a tailor and conversing with clients has given him excellent skill in both listening and gossip. he may not be the most conversational himself but is very good at being a fly on the wall. he is also terrible at understanding social cues.  General Opinion over said character: he has no character but that wont stop me from projecting half of my personality on him. the only requirement i have for his characterization is that he’s a bitch.  Jonathan fanshawe... he snuck up on me but now he is yet another minor man i have packbonded to.  Sexuality Headcanon: bi! Gender Headcanon: trans man! in particular i hc him as afab + intersex (i know that intersex/perisex isn’t regarding gender but i wasn’t sure where else to put this 😔) A ship I have with said character: jonahbarnshawe polycule again + all of its subparts (barnshawe & jonahfanshawe) A BROTP I have with said character: albrecht & clara von closen! you have a lot of potential for a ghost hunting trio with these three A NOTP I have with said character: smirke for the same reason A random headcanon: this man is in desperate need of rest and is the living definition of a workaholic. if you gave him a very lovey cat he would probably melt from the affection.  General Opinion over said character: 100% did not expect to get as invested in him as i did, but lets be real morally questionable 19th century doctor with a touch for the unexplained is a really good character type.

[ctl-yuejie]

opinion on the term bl?

uhhhhhh…very complicated. I might have written a whole rant post before on the topic on this blog on an empty stomach so it was most likely not very nuanced (I think it was about people saying that The Untamed didn’t count as BL).

buckle in, this got suuuper long

tbh i first came into contact with the term in the early 2000s and since the internet didn’t play any role at my age then, the only context I had were magazines (here in Europe) and manga publications.

I knew that BL was a whole genre in Manga and that it featured gay romance and that fans / content creators would refer to themselves at fujoshi. Now, at that time I was only figuring out that I was bi, didn’t know any Japanese and didn’t have any friends with cultural ties to Japan.

So based on the magazines I read, I started to believe that “Fujoshi” literally meant “Rotten Girl” because of the taboo of same-sex relationships and the tantalizing sense of the forbidden that comes with it.

While I read some BL manga (couldn’t tell you the titles anymore), I never referred to myself as a Fujoshi or being into BL because both terms seemed to apply only to Japanese people and the sense of “the forbidden” in regards to same-sex relationships didn’t fit to my reality (having been to a same-sex marriage with my family at age 8 etc) and also felt demeaning to me.

After learning Japanese and living in Japan I didn’t really question my aversion to the terms, since I did have access to the internet now but didn’t think of fact-checking everything I had “learned” pre-internet (I think it is important to note here that the magazines weren’t the highest in quality in terms of journalistic prowess nor scientific in any way. They were just short entertaining articles, aimed at teenagers like me, trying to profit from the still ongoing wave of japanese pop culture in the west) and my only experience with both bl content and real life fujoshi wasn’t that positive:

My feelings on BL and fujoshi culture were heavily influenced by 

- the wave of very sad and traumatizing gay movies in Japan that most of the time ended in double suicides of the main characters

- rape storylines getting romanticized in manga

- pretty heavily stereotyped gay characters in main stream tv series that were only there for comedic relief

- the Fujoshi I knew back then being weirded out by the thought of same-sex relationships between women and basing their thought on gay men solely on the content they consumed 

- not finding the hailed “subversion of traditional gender roles” or discussion thereof in the BL my friends consumed. 

- my gay friends in japan having very frustrating encounters with fujoshi who started to treat them like an open air circus and not making them feel supported in real life 

- people around me making judgments based on attractiveness on whether gay people should get supported, while the hint of a celebrity being gay was weaponized  against them

now, this pretty much sums up, why I tended to have negative thoughts on the subject and felt more sympathetic to the push from some people in the queer community in japan to please retire terms like “uke” and “seme” when talking about real people.

since then, i didn’t intervene when other female friends in japan would use the term for themselves, because it still was a term coined in japan and those people were actually supportive of queer people so i didn’t see how me being preachy about it just because of my experience and not calling myself a fujoshi or fan of bl would be of any help and/or called for.

jump to 2018/2019 and i started to read more papers about it on a whim because i started to watch Crossing The Line and for the first time in a long while I was in a fandom again where people called the genre “BL” and themselves fujoshi/fudanshi.

I came to know that what I assumed the origin story of the term “Fujoshi” to be had been misreported (shocker) by the magazines back in my youth and that apparently the term was also widely used in Thailand, Taiwan and Mainland China. especially the knowledge that apparently TERFs were behind a pushback of the term made me reevaluate my opinion.

Since I have really no insight into Chinese or Thai culture it is not on me to judge whether it is appropriate for people there to use BL as a genre signifier etc and from all I have read, in some cases it is really about finding a way of creating and distributing queer content in a place that is not lgbtqi+ friendly or use it as means of finding expressions for one’s own sexuality etc.

Obv. there are genre conventions I will get annoyed about and criticize (all female characters are evil etc) but those things are also not BL exclusive so there’s not much sense in condemning a whole genre that at least tries to push some conventions.

With the Internet and a global push for more lgbtqi+ rights there is now definitely a strong symbiotic relationship between queer content and real life social changes. so being harder on queer content (in general) because it isn’t perfect doesn’t make anything better for queer people. 

nowadays there has been some wonderful content in japan with a push for real life legal changes as well, taiwan has the marriage for all and thailand is also pushing for a civil union for everyone.

especially in the case of mainland china with strict censorship rules i will congratulate anyone who tries to sneak some ambiguity in. it saddens me that the rules are as strict and that there are even more hardships for lgbtqi+ people in real life but i would never say that not creating any content that could be interpreted as queer should be favoured over trying to do something, regardless of how lacking the result might seem. 

The reason why I ranted about BL as a genre term recently was mostly directed at western fans with no cultural ties to any of the aforementioned cultures, but i definitely didn’t stress that enough in my previous post.

Since I still don’t call myself a fujoshi or being into the BL genre I am suspicious of western fans calling themselves as such. because i project my own experience and knowledge on them and there are people out there who definitely emphasize the cheeky “rotten” side of themselves while not knowing (like past me) where the term comes from and that it does’t have to do with any “forbidden fruit”. i assume a certain laziness when straight people will try and convince me that they are allies to me, because they consume BL series, but will still call me “the man” in the relationship etc.

There can definitely be a need for a similar outlet that allows people to write about gender roles, sexualities etc in a similar way but very often the argument of “it is female empowerment to be into BL” is just warping the origin story of the term into an excuse for homophobic statements. I see the term get applied to western shows as well (when there isn’t a need for using a Japanese term, especially not when there’s a missing understanding of its origin) and actual mlm shows in asia being dismissed just because it doesn’t fit the BL genre conventions (point and example: people in the west discounting The Untamed as mlm content because they weren’t explicit about it; What Did You Eat Yesterday getting dismissed because of similar reasons and the diversion from presumed age and beauty standards of BL as a genre). That way western fans made BL feel quite restrictive and not interchangeable with mlm anymore, which just confounds me.

in the end it also comes down to scope: someone writing fanfiction, producing small indie series cannot really be harmful even when they content might seem so. so regardless of what the genre entails it is important to put everything in perspective and whether this is the hill someone wants to die on, instead of leaving space for artistic expression, cultural differences and celebrating the steps into a more loving world for all.

tl;dr: I feel many emotions; there’s always space to learn more and I am grateful to everyone who made posts about the racism in criticizing the terms “Fujoshi” / “BL”; I don’t use the term myself, but only feel wary when westerners use it; personally I prefer to use mlm or wlw as content describers but I am also not 100% satisfied with that as well

ask me my opinion on ______

[chasingshhadows]

I probably shouldn’t jump in on this but it’s bugging me so I’m just gonna say this and then be done with it.

There’s a lot of talk in the Roswell fandom right now about biphobia, specifically around characters (Michael) being made to “prove” their bisexuality, and perpetuating negative stereotypes (promiscuity).

And I really, really don’t want to invalidate anyone’s feelings because if that’s what you’re seeing in this show, that’s valid and it’s hurtful and I’m sorry you’re hurting. I’m not writing this post as a way to brush your feelings under the rug and say your experiences and trauma are negligible- I’m writing this because I’m seeing a lot of people that I’ve come to care about hurting and maybe, just maybe, I can show a perspective that doesn’t hurt.

(and also before I say any of this - I am an unrepentant Michael stan and an endgame, soulmates, nothing-will-ever-compare Malex shipper, so, context is key.)

Because I just... don’t agree that what we’re seeing is hurtful to the bisexual community. 

The first part, regarding characters needing to “prove” their bisexuality in order to be seen as “true” bisexuals is in fact a massive problem in the bisexual community - every day, we’re told we’re not really bisexual unless we’ve “done both” - the moment we end up in a relationship where our partner is the same gender as our most recent partner, we’re suddenly “no longer” bisexual, because we’ve finally “picked one.” If we don’t literally keep a 1:1 ratio and jump back and forth like hopscotch, our identity is erased.

I’ve experienced this and it’s damaging. My father literally told me that I needed to sleep with multiple people of both genders for him to see me as valid - I was 18. He also told me once I “settled” (read: married) - I would either be lesbian or straight depending on the gender of my partner. My best friend, who is gay, told me “hmm I just feel like you’re gonna end up with a guy, in the end.” And that’s just the beginning. So when I say what I say next, I hope you know that I do it from a place of experience and solidarity.

Michael sleeping with, and catching feelings for, two people of differing genders on the show is not the show making him prove his bisexuality - it’s the show letting him express it. Your best friend telling you she won’t believe you’re bi until you’ve slept with “both” and a show portraying a character that sleeps with people from different genders are two very different things. 

I have watched a lot of queer television. There’s a queer character on a show? especially a bisexual one? Holy shit I am so there. It is the one and sole reason I started watching Roswell. I chase representation, hard. There is nothing more enticing in a new show than the idea that I might get to see myself in it.

That said, it is still incredibly rare to see bisexual characters on television, especially bisexual men. And I’m not talking about in the last 5 years, because in just five years I have witnessed a rapid shift in television to include more queer characters. 

But I didn’t grow up in the last 5 years, I grew up in the last 20. So I can count on one hand the number of bisexual characters I have ever seen that have been with (romantically or sexually) people of differing genders in any meaningful way, and I don’t know, probably never that those people weren’t just side characters.

So this is new, for us. Having a character canonically attracted to multiple people, regardless of gender, is a new thing we’re getting to see on television. And of course Michael shouldn’t have to sleep with people of different genders for people to believe that he’s bi, but no one whose opinion mattered ever doubted that he was bi when he said he was bi. So for me, this representation of him being with different people is representation of me. And I am Here For It.

More than that, there’s this idea that if a bisexual character enters a differing-gender relationship after leaving a same-gender one, that a show is abandoning queer representation because that relationship is “basically het.” 

I’m not het. I’m not straight, none of my experiences are straight. I am queer (of the bisexual variety) and any relationship I enter into will by default not be straight because I’m not straight. There is more to the queer experience than the way that people look at you on the street and there is abso-fucking-lutely more to the bisexual experience than the way you’re treated when you’re in a same-gender relationship. 

No this doesn’t mean that there isn’t a difference in experience (and oppression) between same-gender and differing-gender relationships from the perspective of the bi person - there absolutely is. But in both cases, a bisexual person will always always always feel unseen. So that difference is one of content, not quantity. 

So - I don’t think that Michael dating/sleeping with/whatever he’s doing with Maria is invalidating to the bisexual experience. I think it’s a chance for us to finally see the bisexual experience. Finally see that it can just be that easy, to find a connection with anyone and see that gender just doesn’t really come into play at all because it’s not relevant to bisexual people - at least, not to me. 

Now, the second part, the part where people are feeling... insulted, I think, that Michael sleeping with Maria after sleeping with Alex is perpetuating this very damaging stereotype of promiscuous, incapable-of-committing bisexuals.

I’m gonna take those one at a time (promiscuous/commitment issues) because I think they’re two different things.

I think a character, bisexual or not, being portrayed as promiscuous (by definition:  having or characterized by many transient sexual relationships) is 100% a non-issue. 

The real issue is that promiscuity is seen as a negative stereotype at all. The real issue is that being sexually expressive or sexually active is seen as morally reprehensible, as something that damages their character as a person.

And unfortunately this is a two-sided coin, the other side being that asexual, sexually shy, or sexually non-expressive is also seen as negative, but while I deeply feel it’s important enough to mention, it’s not the issue on Roswell right now.

The argument here is that the show is portraying Michael as promiscuous, which feeds into this stereotype that bisexual people can’t make up their minds and just go around sleeping with anyone and everyone without reservation or caring about anyone’s feelings and that not only is that the norm, it’s basically expected (see: my father). 

And if Michael were the only character on the show displaying these behaviors, I could understand why people thought that the show were actively trying to push said stereotype - even if I don’t see that stereotype as a bad thing anyway. 

But he’s not - not even close. Max and Cameron and Liz and Kyle - all of them have engaged in casual sex and both Max and Liz have hopped beds during this season. Casual sex (while again, not a universal experience by any means, nor should it be) is normal for adults of this age, and the show is portraying it as normal.

And by normal I don’t mean that like, it’s not messy - of course it’s messy and people get hurt and people do and say shitty things because they’re human. But the fact of engaging in casual sex, or sex with multiple partners within a short(ish) time frame, is not in and of itself problematic. 

Now, to the part about the commitment issues - there’s this notion that the show is trying to portray Michael as having abandoned his feelings for Alex to hop on Maria... and here I’m kinda just.....confused. 

“Where I stand, nothing’s changed.” “I never look away, not really.” 

The show has made clear, intentional, explicit attempts to show that Michael is ass over teakettle in love with Alex and has been since he was a kid. But they’ve also made it clear that Michael hasn’t been celibate since Alex left - casual sex is a part of his life, he said it episode one.  

And Michael tried with Alex - and Alex turned him down (honestly, for good fucking reasons, even if they break my heart). He tried and gave Alex everything he had and Alex walked away. 

And Michael ... has no choice but to try and move on. And he doesn’t even do it right away, it’s not like it’s the next day or even the next week. His bed has been cold for weeks, months, before he even looks at Maria like that. And him looking at Maria like that? Caring about her and finding her attractive and wanting to touch her and be touched? Does not in any way negate the way he feels about Alex even if he’s trying to make everyone, including himself, believe that it does. 

Is sleeping with his ex’s friend a shitty thing to do? Sure. I personally have very nuanced feelings about that whole thing and its place in media, but I won’t deny that what they’re doing is not just hurtful to Alex, it’s knowingly hurtful - Michael knows that what they’re doing will hurt him and he does it anyway.

But them making choices that are hurtful doesn’t make Michael a poor representation of bisexuality - not every underrepresented character needs to be a paragon of the moral high ground for them to be subversive to their stereotypes. In fact, I really believe that forcing underrepresented identities to always be perfect and do the right thing and make no mistakes and subvert every stereotype is far more problematic because it makes a statement that that identity is only worthy of respect and love when they behave.

So - let Michael misbehave. Let him sleep around. Let him try to drown his heartache in another person. Why should he have to be perfect when everyone else gets to be flawed?

No one is harder on queer representation and queer media than queer people - and I get it. We’ve had so much bad representation and we’re sick of it and that’s understandable. But it’s turned into this thing where every slice of representation has to be Perfect or it’s Garbage, and it’s leading creators to not want to try because they’re so harshly run off every time they do. And when they don’t try, they don’t learn, and when they don’t learn, they don’t do better.

And even if the show decides to ignore literally every precedent they’ve set thus far (would not be a first, believe me) and call it quits on Malex for good, Malex isn’t theirs anymore anyway. The instant the first fanfic posted to AO3, the millisecond that first AU gifset hit Tumblr - Malex became ours. We have enough on screen and off screen content to play around in for years to come and I really hope to see all of you on that journey with me. 

If even after reading this, you still feel hurt and misrepresented and insulted by Michael’s relationship with Maria, come pop into my chat or my inbox and let me weave you tales of how that never happened, let me erase that reality from your whiteboard and replace it with something you love. Canon is just a craft store of materials - if you don’t want to use the red beads, then don’t. There’s a whole aisle of blue ones just down the way.

[crossdreamers]

What definition of "lesbian" and "feminist" does this blog use? I appreciate that male-inclusionists use the term egalitarian for themselves. Why use feminist for yourselves when you support gender essentialism and refuse to acknowledge sex-based oppression?

On lesbians, transgender people and feminism

What is a lesbian?

A lesbian is normally defined as a homosexual woman, meaning that she is sexually attracted to people of her own gender. I believe that sexual orientation can often be more fluid than the binary this concept grows out of allows for, but for many this represents a perfect description of their sexuality.

Feminism

A feminist is a person who supports feminism.  As I see it, feminism should at least include the following:

1. A clear understanding of how our societies (which are dominated by men and the Patriarchy) stop women from from achieving equals status to men as regards real power and influence, employment and salaries, legal framework, social welfare and services, as well as personal respect and  validation. Moreover, feminism will have to include political means by which to change this.

But that is not enough. The oppression of women is so effective, because it is part of our language, the mental maps we use to navigate the world, and our institutions. This explains why women sometimes are as strong supporters of the status quo as men are (as in women voting for Trump and Putin).

Therefore feminism must include:

2. The goal of replacing the Patriarchy with a new understanding of biological sex, sexuality and cultural gender where men,  women and non-binary people are understood as equals – politically, socially, and culturally. This is a society   where being a man  is no longer understood to be the default norm for being human, and where men no longer dominate.

Biological sex should be irrelevant. Sexual orientation should be irrelevant. Gender identity should be irrelevant. Everyone should be seen as human first, anything else second. But we are definitely not there yet. I live in a country where the three most powerful politicians are women, but where women continues to be belittled, ignored, dismissed and harassed because they are women.

In other words: As long as women continue to be oppressed in this way, it makes no sense to pretend that everything is all right, because the legal or formal frameworks are supposed to treat men and women in the same manner.

End the misogyny

The Patriarchy is upheld by contempt for women, by misogyny. Even in a liberal and egalitarian country like Norway, young boys and men continues to be socially conditioned to think of being female as something inferior, shameful and embarrassing. Many of those who violate this cultural taboo are called “sissies”, “faggots” or the worst slur of them all: “girls”.

Under the current racist, homophobic and transphobic backlash it is easy to see that this misogyny  is part of toxic masculinity that puts dominance, aggression and violence above collaboration and compassion. 

Which brings me to your real agenda.

I am, according to you, a “male-inclusionists” and a “gender essentialist".

I am not a gender essentialist

I am not a “gender essentialist”. I do not believe there are unique “female” and “male” brains and that trans women have a “female” brain in a male body.

My own life experience and my reading of current research tells me that “masculinity” and “femininity” – regardless of how you define these diffuse phenomena – are widely distributed among both men women and non-binary people, gay, bi and straight. This is also one of the reasons why I disagree with any attempt to reduce cultural  or psychological gender to genitals or chromosomes.

The current consensus among natural scientists studying sex and gender, is that gender identity development in humans is the end result of a complex interplay between genetics, epigenetics, hormones, various environmental factors, social pressures and cultural concepts.

Transgender identities are real gender identities

The very existence of transgender people tells them (and us) that gender identity cannot be explained by social conditioning alone, since we are punished severely  if we violate the gender binary and the traditional gender roles.

In spite of all the violence, transgender people consistently and persistently, keep their gender identity, even when they desperately try to live up to the expectations of society. Conversion therapy never works, in the same way it never works on homosexual men and women.

I believe this persistent gender identity has a biological component, but it is real even if it does not have one. It is as real as the sexual orientation of a lesbian, or the gender identity of non-transgender person. This is an observable fact.

My guess is that this “factor X”, if you will, is an inborn drive towards expressing yourself as a woman, a man, or someone non-binary, in the same way cis kids over time develop a need to be affirmed as a boy or a girl. Many girls embrace Disney princesses, not because they are genetically programmed to go for pink, but simply because society tells them that this is a good way to be affirmed as a girl. Through play and conversation, they are trying to find out what it means to be a woman in their place and time. We have to tell teach them that  a pink princesses are not the default role models for women.

In the same way some transgender persons embrace stereotypical feminine or masculine expressions, not because they are essentially “queens of the ball” or “lumberjacks”, but because it is a way of exploring their identity in a social and cultural context. Like many cis people, most transgender people find a way of presenting their real personality in their end.

In other words: Biological sex, the gender identity continuum, sexual orientation and masculinity/femininity are four separate, but interacting, dimensions. That explains why you can meet a transgender, femme, lesbian woman.

Women may be diverse, but they have the political struggle in common

The feminist philosopher  Catherine MacKinnon has said that “male dominant society has defined women as a discrete biological group forever. If this was going to produce liberation, we’d be free… To me, women is a political group…. I always thought I don’t care how someone becomes a woman or a man; it does not matter to me. It is just part of their specificity, their uniqueness, like everyone else’s. Anybody who identifies as a woman, wants to be a woman, is going around being a woman, as far as I’m concerned, is a woman." 

Her respect for the individual’s uniqueness rings true to me. African-American women has a different life experience from white American women, college educated women one that is different from blue collar women, and Norwegian women lives in a different framework than women from Indonesia. Politics and the struggle against the Patriarchy bring them together.

The transgender contribution

The life experience of transgender women can bring new insights into our understanding of the repressive nature of the Patriarchy. Sure, they have in some ways experienced male privilege, but all of them have a system that does its  best to beat their real identity out of them, because a "man” is not supposed to feel like a woman.

Many trans women are sexualized, raped and killed, just because they are women and because they threaten the fragile masculinity of men. At least 28 transgender women were killed in 2017 in the US alone, a majority of them black women.   The survivors have a lot to teach other feminists about intersectionality and the oppressive power of the Patriarchy.

Trans men can also be of help in the feminist struggle, partly because they have been raised as girls, and partly because they have experienced the contrast between being treated like a woman and next as a man. They might help us develop narratives that make more men understand. The same applies to non-binary people who have actively developed a language that makes it possible to go beyond the binary.

Including men

If you by “male-inclusionists” mean that I think men can be feminists, the answer is yes. In the same way some women uphold the Patriarchy, many men do their best to undermine it.

if you by “male-inclusionists” refer to the idea that trans women should be respected and embraced as women, the term becomes a slur. Trans women are women, not men.

For a constructive  butch lesbian feminist take on transgender lives, see this interview with gender philosopher Judith Butler.

Illustrations based on designs by Sonya_illustration and Jorgenmac.

Keywords: transgender, trans, LGBT, LGBTQA, lesbian, homosexual, feminist, TERF, TERFs, masculinity, femininity

[skyhelmwriter]

A Weird, Wild Journey

Below the cut is a long, possibly rambling discussion of my personal understanding of myself. It focuses primarily on how having one (1) prominent DifferenceTM made discovering and accepting the others more difficult.

I’ve always been weird. Hell, I’ve always been WeirdTM. And for a long time I thought the reason I didn’t feel the same as other penis-havers was a matter of the one big, glaring difference I had from everyone else I knew: I was autistic.

I was diagnosed at the age of seven with Asperger’s Syndrome, but these days I’d be described as “on the spectrum” and “high-functioning with obsessive tendencies.” And this made me different. In my life, I’ve met maybe three other people with the same diagnosis. It’s something that’s so uniquely my own that I thought it had to account for all the differences between me and other people who seemed otherwise identical to me.

I’m lucky to have a form of autism that allows me to understand my own symptoms and manage them consciously. I barely have to force myself to modulate my tone, make eye contact, or think about how other people feel, because I’ve independently arrived at the conclusion that those are good things to do (not useful, good. That’s an important distinction). I often tell people that I “brute forced” my way into empathy. I had to learn it, when other people simply do it.

Around the same time I was diagnosed, I made friends with someone. She was my first real friend, and she was a bit of tomboy. She could defend me better from the bullies (there weren’t many, but they were brutal) than I could defend myself. She called herself a tomboy, and I responded that I must be a tomgirl, because I was interested in many things it seemed only girls were interested in. She didn’t seem convinced, so I brought the conversation home to my parents.

My mother was also unconvinced. She seemed to think that I was just feeling different because I was...well not strong. That didn’t make me effeminate; it just made me different, and different was okay. I’d always been “sensitive,” but that was very literal. My sensory nerves literally took less input to activate.

So I dropped it. Because my parents knew better. Again, I was seven. They said that I shouldn’t talk like that because other boys might not take well to me if I didn’t act like a boy. So I acted like a boy, and I liked boy things, and I did boy things.

And as I grew up, I couldn’t shake the feeling that I was different, but I already had this really convenient explanation for what it was that made me different. And everything that was different about me could be traced to it. My shitty handwriting came from a nervous disorder associated with ASD. My deep and unusual interest in various things came from the obsessive behaviors associated with ASD. My physical weakness came from my introversion (and my asthma), which was a symptom of ASD. My nerves, my strange bodily structure, my repetitive behavior, it was all because of my ASD, and so I lumped other strange feelings in with that, too.

I attended high school in what could politely be called a suburb. In reality, it was White Central. I say this to give you an idea of exactly how...Republican....you should expect general sentiments to be. It was widely thought by anyone in the student body that someone who supported, say, gay marriage (I went to high school in the late 00′s and early 10′s) must be gay themselves, because (and here I’m directly quoting students) “why would you care if you weren’t gay?”

Never mind that I was a minority as well. I wasn’t neurotypical. I could feel for people being discriminated against because I’d spent years convincing teacher after teacher that my shitty goddamned handwriting wasn’t something I could fucking help, and watching my grades suffer because they “couldn’t read” my writing (never mind that it was usually perfectly legible and they were just being assholes because it wasn’t pristine). Never mind that you ought to treat people decently regardless of how they differ from you.

And of course, I wasn’t gay. I was definitely attracted to girls. And I was socialized only to think about how I could be attracted to girls, because being attracted to guys was a good way to get the shit kicked out of you and I certainly didn’t want that. I was already a nerd. I was already weak. I was already shy. I was already in speech and debate. I didn’t need that, too.

And yet, there were signs. Almost all my friends were girls. And sure, I spent a lot of time with two or three specific guys, but that was because we’d hit it off in Latin Freshman year and boy was Latin an interesting class. I hung around with the theater kids (though I never actually took part, mostly because half of theater was musical I couldn’t sing for shit), and I did speech and debate (wherein my attraction to men in suits could be written off--even by other explicitly gay boys--as something brought on by charisma and fashion, not an innate desire to be with another guy.

Even still, by the time I graduated I was firmly in the Q section of the acronym. In part, this was because I found myself on tumblr for the first time in 2011-2012, and I learned about a whole world of identities and people I hadn’t realized existed, and I’d taken my first philosophy class and learned how to actually think about other people, and I’d taken a law class, so I understood the foundations of the social order. All this together had helped me understand that there was nothing wrong with the way I felt. I just had to figure out what it was that I felt.

And that was difficult to do. I’ve always been good at reflecting on my actions--too good actually; I have a tendency to brood over minor mistakes--but my own thoughts, my own feelings, those were more difficult for me to articulate. And besides, my feelings would be affected by my autism, right?

So I let it simmer. I bottled it all up and said “this isn’t something I need to focus on right now. I’m not even looking for a partner.” I went through a lot of stages in this regard in college, fluctuating in my articulation about my identity as unsure, straight, and bi seemingly at random, and never even thinking about my gender. Hell, I was so focused on my schoolwork that I forgot to properly take care of myself most of the time--my autism in action once more. How could I care about my gender when I didn’t even care about my appearance?

And then i graduated college, and I had a lot of time to think. And I didn’t spend much of it here, but before I got my first job, I was thoroughly out as Bi. I knew what I was, and I was proud to say it. I’d forced myself to look at all those instances that seemed like flukes or coincidences, and I realized they weren’t. They were indicative of a pattern, a pattern of attraction to men, and a pattern of attraction to women. I’d had to fight through not only my heteronormative socialization, but also my neurodivergent socialization, the part of me that said “hey! you’re already different enough! do you really need this?” And it wasn’t matter of need. The real question I had to ask was “is this really my experience?” and the answer was yes.

But I still didn’t feel right. A couple of my friends came out as trans, and I couldn’t have been happier for them. Living their lives as they saw themselves, they were happier, livelier, more productive people. And I remembered all those times I’d thought I didn’t quite feel like a guy, like a dude, like a boy. I remembered how my default posture included a popped hip, how I kept writing female characters.

I remembered how the first ever avatar I chose in a Pokemon game was the girl. How I always made female characters in games where I could make that choice. How I kept playing women in DnD.

But I knew I wasn’t trans. I didn’t experience dysphoria. I didn’t want to be a woman, at least not all the time. But sometimes, I definitely felt more effeminate. And others I wished my voice were deeper. Sometimes I didn’t mind when people called me “sir,” or said “he,” other times it didn’t feel right at all.

And once again I thought “aren’t you different enough?” and “couldn’t this all just be because you’re autistic?” I wondered whether I was reading too much into myself, if I might just be projecting other people’s thoughts onto my own. I’ve been wondering that for years.

But one thing is certain. My experiences are real. I have felt these ways. I can’t deny that. I won’t deny it. And now I have a word, a word the encapsulates the ways I’ve felt. Well, it’s three words. I’m an aromantic, genderfluid bisexual. And I’ll say all three of them loud and proud. Not just because it’s pride, but because I deserve to be comfortable with who I am. After all, it took me 24 years to figure it out. I’ve got to make up for lost time somehow.

[knightofbalance-13]

https://rwby-analysis.tumblr.com/post/172350052147/im-always-a-little-annoyed-by-people-who-say-that

https://rwby-analysis.tumblr.com/post/172354627777/listen-when-it-comes-to-sexual-orientations

*Sigh* To think I’d have to do this to RWBY-Analysis of all people.

Okay, let’s go.

Sorry to disappoint you, but shipping Ilia with Sun or Jaune really isn’t the best thing to do now that she’s a confirmed lesbian. (I’m actually really not sorry.)

Why? Why is this such an issue? It’s just shipping, just an idea. It’s not like doing this suddenly means Illa turns straight or anyone is actually saying that. So why is this an issue?

Shipping straight dudes to make them gay doesn’t take away from straight representation. Media is incredibly heteronormative and queer people rarely see themselves represented. Even when we are we’re mostly just side characters, often badly written. Additionally male gay characters are way more represented in media and fandoms and queer women are often overlooked (not to even talk about all the other identities). 

... Okay, what you just described is a zero sum game, in which something can only be gained by taking away from another. Thus nothing is added. And honestly, it’s stupid to think this way about fictional concepts. Shipping is NOT real and it does NOT take away from canon. Just as well: SHIPPING IS NOT ACTIVISM. You do not get moral credit for shipping gay ships or lose it for shipping straight ships.  None of this belogs in shipping.

Yeah, Media is incredibly heteronormative...so is the human race. Washinting post says that 96% of people are heterosexual in the US, which is one of the most liberal countries in the world. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/?utm_term=.e4d1dd014408) And mind you, the Washington post has a left leaning bias so they have NO reason to lie about these numbers (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-post/). So the media being heteronormative is nothing negative, especially since relating to someone SOLELY due to sexuality is just begging for tokenism.

The thing about most gay characters being poorly written...so are most straight characters. Sturgeon’s law: 99% of media is crap. It is an issue for gay characters but it’s not SOLELY their issue as well. As for the gay woman thing: Source please.

Good lesbian representation is incredibly rare. Shipping the only confirmed lesbian character on the show with a dude just because some other people ship Johnlock or whatever is just ignorant. Shipping two straight characters of the same gender doesn’t take away from straight representation because straight people just don’t have the issue of their sexual or gender identity being represented enough in media. Full stop. 

You know, if you keep referring to representation as a zero sum game: I DEMAND you go all the way on it and call out people who do ship two straight characters because in the context of a zero sum game: it actually IS taking away from straight representation and for you to not look like a massive hypocrite, you NEED to call them out. ... Or just let people ship whatever they ship because people will ship two or more characters for any numbers reasons and not just representation and not everything is about representation. But really, considering what else you’ve pulled that might be asking for too much.

Ilia is a lesbian and lesbians often face the struggle of their identity not being taken seriously, especially by men who want to get into their pants. Shipping Ilia with men now that she is a confirmed lesbian plays into that stereotype. Of course there is a difference between “in this AU Ilia is bi because I really like her with Jaune, but I know she’s a lesbian in canon and accept that” and “she shouldn’t be a lesbian, canon is wrong, she should date Jaune in canon, I will write long posts about why they will end up together”. The latter especially feeds that stereotype and it’s probably what most people see when they talk about why shipping Ilia with a man is bad.

... What stereotype are you talking about? You never referenced a stereotype, just something that happens in realm life that is only tangently connected.

And as for the two choices thing: you’re wrong. It can be anything from “I ship these two for political reasons” (you and your strawman) to “I ship these two because they look cute together” to “I ship these two because I like the story ideas” to “I ship these two due to how healthy I perceive the relationship to be” to so many more reasons I can’t name. Shippers don’t all ship for political reasons. ALMOST ALL shippers don't ship for political reasons. And I have NEVER seen someone write posts like that about Illa X Jaune so that doesn’t even make sense.

Also: Your last part basically says “Shipping Illa with a man is bad because Lesbians are fragile flowers that need to be coddled.” And that’s just stupid to me. I now you don’t mean it like that but that's what it basically boils down to.

Comparing the experience of queer people not being represented in media to straight people seeing some 14 year old draw Johnlock fanart is incredibly ignorant and maybe you should educate yourself a bit more about these issues before you start invalidating the serious concerns some queer people who face these issues every day of their life have. 

And this is the part that really ticks me. “If you don’t think like me, you’re ignorant and stupid!” That is what you said, RWBY-Analysis. That is what you said and that’s disgusting. Just as well: What if that 14 year old drew some IllaXJaune fanart, totally oblivious to all these politics and just because they think the couple is nice? Are they being wrong then? And comparing the actual persecution and harm done to LGBT people and fucking shipping is so...WRONG that I refuse to acknowledge that.

This definitely is a thing we should talk more about, but not by making stupid statements like you just did. 

“I’m right, you’re wrong and everyone must think like me in order to be right. If you don’t: you’re ignorant and wrong.” Gotcha.

But we aren’t done yet since there is a follow up.

Listen, when it comes to sexual orientations everyone is entitled to their own headcanons. Right now there is only one character whose sexuality has been confirmed by canon, and that is Ilia. For everyone else it’s all pretty much up in the open, so there is no real reason to discuss that. I personally headcanon Weiss as super duper gay, but people who headcanon her as straight are just as valid. You do you. I won’t even discuss that with you because both headcanons can happily coexist. 

Notice what she is saying: HEADCANONS/ AKA FANDOM. Not Canon, FANON. Meaning that no matter how many people ship Straight Illa, it does not change the FACT that Illa is gay. So there should be nothing else, right?

But when it comes to valid concerns members of the LGBTQ+ community have regarding how the fandom treats certain characters, especially when it comes to Ilia, the only confirmed lesbian, then that’s probably not the right moment to play the “straight people have it just as bad nowadays” card.

No, they are NOt valid concerns. Those people-YOU are not entitled to having the fandom revolve around you and bend to your will. People are allowed to do what they want in a fandom so long as it is not hurting anyone and shipping Illa X Jaune is NOT hurting anyone. It CANNOT hurt anyone but people who shouldn’t BE on the internet in the first place.

Also: Way to go ignoring how society is treating being straight and cis as a bad thing and how all straight and cis people hated all LGBT people.

I am always willing to answer questions anyone has regarding these topics, but as the question so the answer. Don’t come into my askbox complaining about concerns queer people have voiced because that doesn’t really scream “I am willing to learn about this topic and have a constructive discussion about it”, to me it just comes off as if you want to vent, and my askbox is not the right place for that. Ask politely and I’ll be polite. No question is stupid because those things are always new to anyone at some point, but ignorance is. 

...

You do understand that people who would try to force people not ship certain things are NOT necessarily gay. In fact I know quite a few straight people who would pull this crap. You just assumed they would be gay because they agreed with you.

Listen: I did respect you until recently RWBY anaylsis and this post wasn’t why I stopped. You just need to understand that people are gonna ship what they want regardless of what you say and they are NOT wrong for doing so. You need to understand that shipping is not activism.

And before you say I was being harsh: No I wasn’t. You’ll be seeing what harsh looks like in my next post.

[surflove808]

RE:  Cockles, Bi!Bros, J2M, J2 over-the-top shipping bullshit.  Please read this.  Here goes....part 2.

UPDATED 10/10/2017 for clarity and stuff.  More examples, less whiskey.  Same potty language. 

I've seen too much bullshit misinformation and conjecture out there and I can't stay silent anymore.  So... here's the promised Part 2 of my ridiculously long rant.  Again, I'm asking that whoever reads this, really reads the whole thing, and if you agree...please reblog.  Because this "issue" affects a lot more people than just these guys.  And I know it's long, but if it starts a discussion on how to treat people better and pave the way for acceptance without fear, as well as for how internet witch hunts are NOT ok, I'm hoping we're ALL for it.

Here we we go!

This statement applies to both the actors in this show, and the characters they portray:  I think we can all agree that these men are otherworldly handsome.  And I think that some of us can agree that reading fan fiction (particularly smut, in my case), is very enjoyable. I love the smut!  I'm not here to disabuse you of the notion that seeing these guys together, apart, with you, with me, with a fucking doughnut...sexually... would be seriously hot.   I'm not here to bash fan fiction.  I'm not here to poop on your fantasies or freedom of speech, either.  But I AM asking for more social responsibility.

I am also here to shut down the mentality that we own these characters and these individuals, and that it's ok to take our fantasies (because that's what they are), and try to force feed them to the general public, and even the actors and their families (some of you no-boundary having, people) as if it's ok for our uninformed opinions about the private lives of these men to be twisted and regurgitated to reflect our own desires for them, especially in a public forum.

I'm here to inject some realism.  Via real experiences.  And actual analysis that's thought-out, and based in objective reality.  If you choose to ignore that, and carry on with your fantasy in a way that's harmful?  I can't stop you.  I'm just here to provide a counterpoint and hope that it takes hold with even 1 person, and maybe that person can tell someone else...and maybe apply reverse osmosis with some of this toxic mentality that it’s “ok if you don’t actually know them”.

*Minor, basic, psychology warning*:  Repressed individuals, for example (by example, I mean this is one instance that I'm using) who are uncomfortable with their own sexuality, and are not yet ready to address/express it, have a tendency to avoid circumstances, conversations and actions that may threaten to shatter a carefully constructed facade.  They will go to great lengths to cover-up or act against any instinct that might "out" them.*  

And by repressed individuals?  That doesn't mean GAY individuals exclusively.  That means ANYONE who feels repressed by the "norms" inflicted by their family, their friends, their classmates, their upbringing, etc. But, I just don't see that with these guys. At all.  They're as comfortable with each other as you'd expect long-time collaborators and friends would be... and that should be awesome.  It should be ok.  But for some fans, it's become their job to attempt to force these actors into roles that they've written FOR them.  And that's fucked up.

What sucks is when, much like their onscreen counterparts, these guys can't express affection, support, physical closeness, have dinner together, laugh at the same dirty jokes, defend each other, etc.... without being put under a frigging microscope and dissected.  It breaks my heart a little bit when I start to see them pulling back and being more inhibited and defensive as a result of this BS.  Being a public figure invites a whole new level of scrutiny, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy...some of the shit I've seen "fans" say about these guys.

And when the occasional rebel of a "fan" ignores the very limited number of things that can't be asked about anymore (**see dickheads**) at conventions, let's be honest - they are, in fact, being dickheads.  They KNOW what they're doing.  This isn't a press conference with Trump.  This is supposed to be a safe place for the actors and fans to interact about the show.  And yet.... when the occasional someone posits the very old and very, definitively answered question about Destiel - and Jensen in particular - shoots it down or tries to avoid it (and only twice that I've seen.  And very politely), suddenly, he's a homophobic asshole.  He's ALSO gay, BTW.  He just doesn't know it yet... (for those of you who take everything literally, that was sarcasm)

I'll tell you what.  He's a helluva lot nicer than I would ever be.  I'd tell the pushy shitheads that insisted on asking the same fucking DELIBERATELY INFLAMMATORY question that had already been answered, to go fuck themselves.  But Jensen hasn't done that.  Because I guess he's just a more patient person than me.  

He has been inhabiting this character for 12 years, and living with himself for much longer.  Despite that, maybe you DO know his character better than him.  Maybe YOU know him better than he knows himself.  Highly unlikely though.

The way I see it, if faced with seeing my life’s work (actor, husband, friend, father) negated and torn apart for the benefit of a few snarky gifsets, and being ambushed by inappropriate questions, after  dedicating so much of my time and energy and love towards it, I’d be pretty fucking bummed.  It'd be incredibly offensive to have someone tell me I wasn't who I said I was or not doing what I said I was doing.  Over and over and over.

 "YOU say Dean's hetero and there's no Destiel.  The writers say it.  But you're WRONG. Because reasons..."  "YOU may THINK you're fooling us with your marriage and kids, but WE know better!"  What.  The.  Fuck.  Is that all about, people??  If you're doing this, approving of this, liking posts about this?  I'm sorry to be the one to tell you... it's not cute.  It's damaging.  it's disrespectful, and you're that asshole.

I hate seeing anyone put in a position that makes them question how to go about policing their own behavior, their own truth and their own perception with regards to their **REAL** interpersonal relationships, based on the very legitimate fear that certain people won't give a second thought to making not only their life, but the lives of their families - a mockery.

For those of you who have had people snickering behind your backs or spreading gossip about you - it wasn't pleasant was it?  In WHAT situation is it ok to take your unproven hypothesis, and use it to shame, "out", poke fun at, fetishize, or attempt to force feed your theories to the world-at-large in public forums about anyone's private lives?  I really want to know. What makes this ok?

EXAMPLE TIME (using a few common examples I've seen time and time again, that people use to justify the shit that comes out of their mouths or fingertips):

1.  The male cast and their butt swatting and dick grabbing pranks that make certain, excitable people jump to conclusions: This may be just my experience, but still:  I'm a woman, and I know that my gay male friends and straight lady friends think it's not only ok, but a hoot to grab each others nethers,  brazenly flirt, and share explicit sexual info like it's NBD, primarily because we are 100% uninterested in each other, physically.  There is no perceived threat, either way, between us friends.  And no fear of rejection.  We don't view each other as potential mates.  Therefore, we're a bit more "free" with each other.

A lot of my straight guy friends that are comfortable in their own masculinity (I hate that I even have to say that), have no hang ups about swatting each other on the butt, grabbing each others dicks, performing "cup checks", etc.  *Also, see football.*  I don't know why this is a thing that they do, and I don't judge them for it.  In my observations, it's just a thing a fair amount of guys do, that they consider to be an "acceptable" display of affection among friends.  They seem to find it amusing, and frankly - it's NONE OF MY BUSINESS.  So, there's that.  Most men, (that I've known, at least), will never not be fascinated with their own junk, not to mention dicks, balls, asses and boobs in general.  I've also seen them be quite tender with, and observant of over one another when a situation arises.  You know?  Like a normal human response to someone they care about who may need some support??

And if a couple of dude friends want to act like they're 5 years old with each other, well into adulthood...I think it's rather charming, and hilarious, if I'm being honest.  I may not date men, but I absolutely adore them!  And I sure as fuck don't want to see the baby steps that they are able to take away from toxic masculinity (to quote a lovely DM I got earlier), turned against them by people who think it's ok to project their own crap on them.

2.  Sharing clothes: Again, just speaking from years of experience, and not claiming to know these guys or their reasons for (what, on 3-4 occasions, being seen with the same shirt?)... It's not just Jensen and Misha that do this, IF in fact, they do it at all.  A lot of us do this.  And if they do?  It's not a big deal, people.

I share clothes with friends for convenience and comedy's sake, quite a bit.  I own a bright orange hoodie that has been borrowed by so many friends that it's got it's own traveling backstory.   I've borrowed pants, shoes, tops, etc. on occasion, based on my immediate needs,  and vice-versa.  Especially when traveling.  Saves hassle and space to share a wardrobe, when possible.  But then, maybe Jared, Jensen and Misha do it because they are clearly boning the shit out of each other in secret.  And they're MEN.  And men can't do that without some deeper meaning ascribed to it, apparently.

**Side note:  2 weeks ago, a guy friend of mine came straight from his construction job to a bbq at my house and asked to take a shower.  But he didn't have any clean clothes of his own to change into.  As a joke - I offered him my frilliest, silkiest top.  And he LOVED it!  Wore it all night and then wore it home. Got it back, freshly laundered last week. His girlfriend (one of my best friends), especially got a kick out of it!  Lots of pics were taken and laughs were had.  But none of us even considered that this was something worth ruminating over.  It was Just. Funny.**  

Good grief...If I were subjected to the same scrutiny that these actors are, based on wardrobe swaps alone, I'd be covertly fucking or wanting to fuck 75% of my friends.  And folks, that's just not accurate.  And no, I'm not fucking the other 25%, we're just not sharing clothes.  :D

3.  Perceived jealousy: Yes, some lovers get jealous.  You know who else does?  Friends, co-workers, siblings... Does the occasional side glance from one of these men merit dissection and exposition?  Do we really have the prescient knowledge that enables us to know what these men are thinking and feeling with every glance, every movement?  I'm only asking because certain individuals seem to think that these miniscule moments are more meaningful when they can be attributed to these guys.  What makes these guys so damn special?  Sorry.... maybe I'm just jealous.  Feel free to speculate.  I really wanna know.

4.  "Longing looks", "sexy eyes", "the romantic gaze":

I'm going to tell you what I see with my own eyes, without the benefit of slowed-down gifs, conjecture, or the Cosmo Guide to Body Language and Crushes....or whatever the hell is informing opinions out there.

I'm going to focus on Jensen here because he seems to be the lynchpin that holds this whole sordid affair together.  In addition to him "eye-fucking/loving" Jared and Misha, have you also noticed the way he "gazes" at and how affectionate he is with Rob, Billy, Jim Beaver, and JDM?  If you have, you may have noticed that he has a very open, expressive face and big, gorgeous eyes.  And he seems, by all accounts, to be a very affectionate dude.  And to his credit,  despite our best efforts to call attention to every single fucking thing he does, he continues to try to be himself.  

And when he's paying attention to someone when they're speaking or performing (which is kind of a normal, respectful thing to do, as opposed to looking in boredom at the ceiling or the floor).... he seems to be 100% in the moment.  Unless he's competing to tell a story.  :D  Again...just using my eyes to observe.

He's especially oooey gooey with Rob.  Why hasn't he been linked with Rob in a torrid, secret affair?  Is Rob too short?  Not cute enough?  I wanna get to the bottom of this.  What?  Is Rob chopped liver or something??

Folks, I do the same thing.  A LOT of people do. Anyone who focuses on whoever is in front of them or next to them, really.  Or am I in the minority, in that I'm capable of holding eye contact with, and paying attention to people that I'm not attracted to when they're speaking?  If so, ya'll are some shallow fuckers.  Wait!!  Have I been eye-fucking people all along??  That would explain a lot, actually.

One buddy of mine in particular, has these big, gorgeous brown eyes and he gets this look when he's listening to people, and he looks like he's in love.  He's not.  IT'S JUST HIS FUCKING FACE.  Poor guy has gotten in some hot water over that with a few hopeful, clueless ladies thinking he was *into it* when he wasn't.

Well, you may say... WHY does Jensen always gaze that way at Jared and Misha??  (First of all - see above), but I have a theory:  Have you ever seen him do panels with anyone else?  Who are the three main characters of this show?  Who does he share all of his public appearances with, when he's not solo?  He spends the lions share of his time working on and promoting Supernatural.  Is Danneel in Supernatural?  No...she's not.  When they DO have precious little private time together, are they sitting in panels and being videotaped before a live studio audience, so that we can analyze their chemistry?  Again...NO.

I don't know what their marriage is like.  I'm gonna do the thing where I take their happiness and love at face value.  Because it's none of my damn business.  I believe what they've said and presented as a couple, because why wouldn't I?  The better question is... why wouldn't you??  What's your motivation?

Misha affection:

Misha is a bad ass.  Misha has been supported and enabled to evolve (again - going off what he's SAID in panels) Misha is not afraid of what people are gonna say about him when he wears a dress, or fakes an orgasm onstage with Jensen, kisses Jensen on the cheek, etc.   And anything that he does to convert prejudice and fear into understanding, is A-OK by me.  You can be masculine, and straight and still be open to exploration, still retain softness, and allow yourself to have your fingernails painted onstage without fear of repercussions from the peanut gallery, if you are allowed to get to that space, without people fucking with you.  I could speculate on how Jensens friendship with someone like Misha might have made it more tolerable for him to handle all the bullshit that comes his way via unfounded speculation about his sexuality, but then, I wouldn't be sticking with simple observations based on what I hear from their mouths and what I see with my eyes.  I know, it can be hard....BUT IT'S POSSIBLE, PEOPLE.

Grooming:

There's a reason why our behavior correlates to the fact that we share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees (*also, see above for obsessing over our own genitalia*).  I've had frigging strangers reach over and pull lint off of me.  I had a guy on a busy NYC street try to pull a mole off my neck once, because he thought it was a tick.  I don't know what else to say.  From their own mouths, these guys have said it's a learned behavior from over a decade of checking each other before cameras roll.  But if you think it means that they're in love... well.  Ok, I guess.

"Checking in":

Again, I'm assuming and hoping all of us have at least one friend or family member that we're close to and care very much about, especially if they are, or have been, at risk.  If you think that this person is approaching an emotional cliff  (or any other kind of cliff for that matter), would you let them fall off, or would you let them know that you were there?  Via a song, a look, a call, a touch, a word, a pat on the back, etc?  

Or is that just a gay thing?

Conclusion:

These guys don't have to give a shit about the fans, but they go above and beyond.  They're as invested in their characters as we are.  MORE so, and rightly so.  And they're dedicated and invested in their fans in a way that I've never seen before.  And just going off written and verbal accounts that I'm sure you all have been privy to as well, these particular actors go to bat for vulnerable people and at-risk people, both personally, in situations that don't involve PR, as well as outreach through their respective campaigns.  So, I respect them very much as creative entities and as people.  I think most of us do. And I'm fucking going to bat for THEM.   For those who don't, well... here's to hoping that changes.  Or that your focus does. I am guessing the average age (intellectually/emotionally/or physically) of the people who read way too much into every gesture between these actors, and FREAK OUT...is pretty young.  And I'm not saying that's a bad thing (being young, that is), but I AM saying the constant badgering of, and attempted *outing* of anyone is pretty abhorrent behavior, regardless of your maturity level.  

Again, your words matter.  They affect lives.  They affect perception.  These aren't just your private thoughts and fantasies anymore when you're making public statements on a worldwide forum/social network, and taking things way out of context to back up your ill-informed theories about people you don't even know.  And by "affect lives", I mean that these public figures have developed a thick enough skin and enough sense to largely ignore the bullshit, but they are still human beings and deserving of our respect, no?  

And by “affect lives”, I think as a society, we have a responsibility to the young men and women coming up in this world who still see -  via these kinds of posts - that despite years of slow progress, their slightest actions can still be dissected and analyzed and gossiped about, with regards to their sexuality in particular.  I think that people who like to post real accusations about real people, based on their skewed perception of these peoples interactions, in the "interest" of supporting actual LGBTQ people, are causing FAR more harm than good.

It can be destructive.  And it can be limiting to intellectual and emotional growth, at large.  And you're kidding yourselves if you think you're being "cute" and that it's harmless to ship real people to the point of harassment on a public forum.  All you're accomplishing, is showing current and future generations of kids that if they don't stick with your definition of heteronormative behavior, that you'll do the outing for them via social media. I wish certain individuals were a bit more responsible with their online musings when it comes to real people who have real families and real children who will probably stumble upon this content one day... and try to be a bit more empathetic in general.  Get out from in front of your screens and look around you and ask yourself:  How would I feel if someone posted this kind of shit about my sister?  My Mom?  My Dad?  My GF/BF/best friend without their consent??

Or is spreading malicious gossip only ok when you're not directly affected?

I'm just hoping that the people who fuck with these guys wives and make vids and publicly try to sexualize their friendships on Tumblr and elsewhere, are too young to know better.  Here's to hoping they learn better, going forward.

If you are doing this?   It's never too late to learn how to be a better human.  Find a way to indulge your theories without harassing these very decent men, and well... anyone, right??  If these guys DO in fact have any "secrets"?  They're entitled to keep them.  But the likely reality?  They're living their lives truthfully, in the face of the shitty online perpetuation of rumors, and giving us all a lesson in what it means to behave graciously under pressure and move on with kindness, when they could just as easily shut down convention filming as well as fan interaction.  Appreciate that.  And appreciate each others right to live without shame, scrutiny or unfounded speculation.

And if I missed some tags?  Please, let me know.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************ A brief recap for those who couldn't glean this info from the body of this open letter:

I am not anti-LGBTQ, anti-Cockles, anti-J2M, anti-J2, anti-shippers.

I AM anti-harassment

And I AM anti-slanderous gossip in any form.

*******That being said*******

I am pro SPN actor, pro human, pro fandom, pro positivity

I am also pro education with regards to acceptance and tolerance, and just....basically, leaving people the fuck alone.  Especially when you do not know them.

[ricepug]

Every even number for the V Day meme!

2: Have you ever been deeply in love?

yep! of course

4: Have you ever changed for someone?

no, i don’t feel like i should have to change for someone but i do try to be a better person for both our sakes, if that counts

6: Have you ever been cheated on?

no! or if i have, i don’t know about it

8: Would you date someone who's well known for cheating?

no, definitely not - probably have a fling w/ them but not date

10: Do you like to be in serious relationships or just flings?

uhhh... that’s tough like... i love having a committed relationship w/ fooling around on the side (not in a cheating way)? both are good imo

12: How many people have you ever hooked up with?

hooked up as in for sex: none, u rly don’t wanna do that where i live all u’ll get is old men or boganshooked up as in dated: four

14: What age do you think is appropriate for kids to start having sex?

i personally don’t give a shit what people do, as long as it’s safe, consentual, and they’re w/ someone around the same age as themlike most ppl i know lost their virginity at 14 to same age partners and i did at 16, as long as ur not messing around w/ someone who’s much older than u (or an adult) bc then it becomes a problem

16: Do you believe in "love at first sight"?

i... don’t know, not really?

18: What do you consider a deal breaker?

not really sure what this question means in all honesty ;^u^

20: Are you currently in a relationship?

yeah!!

22: Do you think people should date their friends?

ok this really depends like YES u should be friends w/ someone before u date them, but sometime it’s best to leave ppl as platonic pals bc u find u don’t get along w/ them well in a relationship way (from experience)

24: Do you think love can last forever?

u know, if u have the right partner i feel like it can

26: Would you break up with someone your parents didn't approve of?

nah, if my parents didn’t approve of someone they could just fuck off

28: Do you think long distance relationships can work?

yeah i mean, my mum married someone from the other side of the world who’s now living w/ us

30: Are you straight, bi, gay or pansexual?

oof um... technically speaking i’m bi but since i have like a 95% male preference it’s easier to just say i’m gay but i don’t really like labels anyway

32: Have you ever been in an abusive relationship?

nope, not a romantic one anyway

34: What do you think about getting your partner's name tattooed?

never do this

36: Are you still a virgin?

no

38: Do you enjoy love films?

yeah i’m a total sucker for romcoms in all honesty

40: Have you ever had a valentine?

yeah! i mean, only like... two... but that’s still not bad!

42: Have you ever read "Romeo & Juliet"?

yep we had to read it like 50 times over in... what was it? 10th grade? we had an english unit on it, we had to read about a play two more years after that being the crucible and macbeth

44: Would you consider yourself "romantic"?

i try but i don’t know how romantic i am to other ppl haha... my idea of being romantic is making a nice dinner for my partner and watching movies together ;w;

46: Have you ever been "friendzoned"?

nope, don’t think sotho i’ve sorta been brushed off when hitting on my friends if that counts

48: What's your favorite love song?

i... don’t think i have one?

50: If you're single, why do you think you are?

--

52: Are you good at giving other people advices regarding dating/ relationships?

my advice is usually just ‘don’t argue, talk to each other’ or ‘don’t be possessive and trust ur partner’ or w/e, just general common sense stuff that ppl don’t seem to know for some reason so i guess it’s good?

54: How important is it to make a relationship official (p.e. on facebook)?

while it’s fun to announce ur relationship on fb i don’t really see if being that important at all

56: Have you ever "destroyed" a relationship?

nope

58: Are you the "dominant" or the "submissive" part in a relationship?

i’m... a total sub in all aspects it’s honestly embarrassing hahahaha

60: What's your opinion on open relationships?

in one! i think they’re real good if u trust ur partner and know boundaries and all that jazz

62: How do you define "cheating"?

going behind ur partner’s back and fooling around w/ someone willingly without their knowledge and lying to them about what u were doing if someone messes w/ u w/o ur partner knowing and u didn’t consent, that’s different and isn’t cheating as it was out of ur power

64: Do you think Valentine's Day is overrated?

a little bit, but i do really like holidays where i can spoil my partner(s) haha ;w;