#anti sw rebels

[younglingslayer300]

one of the reasons i hate the sequels, regardless of quality, is the fact that they undermine the original trilogy. i don't think they're very well written, and frankly i like the prequels than the ot anyway, but the main issue is that this is a franchise, and the sequels have neatly undermined everything about that franchise.

some of the other newer content does this for me as well - again, it's not an issue of quality, i don't care how good the new tv shows and books or whatever actually are, but they take away from the basis of star wars! the point, tragic though it was, was that no one from the original jedi order survived, and luke's new jedi order was an entirely fresh start. the sequels are terrible because they make it look like luke failed badly (bad move to undermine the main character of the beginning of all of star wars?? but ok??), and actually someone else has to come along and do his own journey for him (again, moronic thing to do to your original protagonist).

and in terms of other new content - i love lots of new characters, like ahsoka, but at this point it's getting insane. yoda's baby frog cousin survived order 66. this random ginger survived order 66. another padawan survived it. actually whole hosts of padawans survived it. the villain in ahsoka's show was some random guy who survived it. the fucking LIBRARIAN survived order 66, even if she did die a year later. order 66 was the most pathetic failure of a mass murder in the history of fictional mass murders, and while that is kind of funny, it does also make the whole point of star wars stupid. it's a big tragedy that luke is the only jedi left, and while he can start a new order, there's no way to get back thousands of years of living history - except that actually darth vader, one of the most feared villains in fictional history, was pretty incompetent, as was palpatine, the master of the downfall of a thousand year old republic. everyone has survived. luke is whining about nothing. why did he face palpatine alone when he could have called on hordes of force sensitives with as much/more training than him. you're building your wall with material from the ground below it?? has anyone at disney actually watched star wars

and ok, the tv shows are sometimes kind of counter-productive, but not everyone's going to watch those, they're not such a big deal. but to undermine the original trilogy in another trilogy?? to make the original heroes look bad and incompetent in the main films? what's the point of adding to a franchise if you're going to make the basis of the franchise look bad

[not-the-tie-youre-looking-for]

“i can’t wait to see eli vanto in TotE” “i hope the crew of the chimera gets a cameo” “faro would be so cool to see”

no please i beg you please filoni do not TOUCH THESE GUYS bro will retcon every last one of them the first chance he gets. watch this absolute lunatic retcon the entire thrawn trilogy

[inquisitor-apologist]

Anyway. Ever think about how Sabine’s planet was destroyed, her people were genocided, and her family was killed by the Empire. Exactly like what happened to Zeb, and Filoni didn’t even let them interact in Ahsoka???

[nateofgreat]

Dave Filoni can honestly be so petty in the ways he tries to get Ahsoka to one-up all the other characters in Star Wars. Just to make sure his original OC’s still the best.

Rey: I can hold a slow moving ship back with the Force!

Dave Filoni: Oh yeah? Well I’ll just have Ahsoka hold back a fast moving ship, piloted by a Sith Lord, while surrounded by hostile Clone troopers! Take that Rey!

Fans: Aww Grogu’s so cute and it’s cool he can use the force so well!

Dave Filoni: Oh yeah? Well here’s baby Ahsoka and the story of how she tamed a ferocious predator as a toddler! See? She’s still the best! Take that baby Yoda!

Luke Skywalker: I’m the son of Anakin Skywalker.

Dave Filoni: Oh yeah? Well Ahsoka’s the padawan of Anakin Skywalker and actually has this really important backstory with him that Vader’s never mentioned! Take that Skywalker!

Anakin Skywalker: I’m the Chosen One!

Dave Filoni: Oh yeah? Well Ahsoka’s chosen by the goddess of the light side herself and is now Gandalf the White! Take that Chosen One!

The Jedi: *All die in Order 66.*

Dave Filoni: Oh yeah? Well Ahsoka survives thanks to some never aforementioned training that makes her smarter, faster, more skilled, and therefore better than all the other Jedi! Take that Order 66!

Everyone: *Dies eventually*

Dave Filoni: Oh yeah? Well Ahsoka’s going to survive all the ages of SW without physically aging past 30! Just so she can stay young and pretty for all canon! Take that Father Time!

[antianakin]

Am I the only one who just lost any and all love for newer Star Wars material due to Jedi hate ? Like- the only merch or show or even FANDOM topic I get involved in is clone wars stuff and MAYBE TBB. Like- why would I want the watch shows who attempt to rewritte canon and portray the very heroes of Star Wars as the bad guys ?

Why would I want to watch shows that assassinate characters left and right (looking at you, Ahsoka and Sabine) ? Why would I want to buy merch of characters who I not only NOT care about, but who also are used as meta mouthpieces for stupid Jedi hate ?

I think there's TONS of good newer Star Wars material, to be honest.

I loved the Kenobi show and it is arguably one of the most pro Jedi pieces of media to have existed since the Prequels films. Aside from one itty bitty somewhat awkward word choice in one line of one episode, there is absolutely NOTHING in that show that can be used to indict the Jedi or blame them for anything and it is arguably one of the only shows to really spend time MOURNING the Jedi and recognizing the horror of what was done to them. Rebels comes closest after this, but its structure makes it a little less visceral than the Kenobi show was to me.

I really adore Visions and I recognize that this is sort-of Star Wars adjacent more than anything else, but SO LITTLE truly understands what makes Star Wars compelling as a story and really hits on those primary themes the way that Visions does. There's SO MUCH Jedi content in Visions and I remember people complaining about how much Jedi content was in Visions and other people responding that if you were given free reign to just play in the Star Wars sandbox with near zero restrictions on what you could make with it, you would probably ALSO immediately go for the psychic space wizards with laser swords. Who WOULDN'T? Visions also just genuinely has some of the most engaging and heart-wrenching stories to come out of Star Wars in a LONG while and it does it in these beautifully animated 15 minute packages. It's such a gem and I am so glad to be alive at the same time as Visions.

Rogue One is older now, but both Rogue One and Andor, despite having zero actual Jedi in them, really hinge on the themes from the Prequel trilogy about the tragedy in the Star Wars universe, stepping up when no one else will, choosing to be selfless and compassionate for the greater good, etc. Faith and hope are MASSIVE themes within these two works and even though there aren't any space wizards, good or evil, in either story, they feel like some of the most pro Jedi things Star Wars has come out with in a while based on thematic messages ALONE.

The Mandalorian's first two seasons actually have this absolutely BEAUTIFUL story about the selfless sacrifice of one man as he gives up everything in order to help this child find his way back to the culture he'd been ripped from. Everything AFTER that regarding Grogu and Din's storyline is a piece of shit (it's not explicitly anti-Jedi or anything, but it undoes a lot of the things that made their story so compelling and beautiful), but the first two seasons are genuinely GOOD and very pro Jedi in a lot of ways despite the lack of many actual Jedi characters.

The Book of Boba Fett is a terrible show for a LOT of reasons, but shockingly none of them have anything to do with its treatment of the Jedi. If it ever ends up with a season two, I desperately hope they leave Mace Windu's name the fuck out of it, but at this point it is a pretty Jedi neutral show if you're willing to deal with the rest of its bullshit.

Rebels is also somewhat older now, and it has a few lines here and there that are a tad more Jedi critical, but it is by and large VERY Jedi positive and does also follow a lot of the themes of selflessness and sacrifice that go along with being a Jedi. It also has themes of mercy and patience and facing your fears in Sabine's storyline that got entirely thrown away in her later storyline. Just thought that was worth pointing out. For reasons.

TBB is also fairly Jedi neutral, but its treatment of the clones is basically the clone version of being anti Jedi, so I'm not sure it's actually any better. It just traded hating on the Jedi to hating on the clones, and I find that just as distasteful.

I can't really speak to things like comics and novels much since I don't tend to consume them really. I've read a few of the adult novels in the High Republic Phase I and the first one was genuinely very good, but there were some relatively heavy-handed Jedi critical themes within the third book of Phase I (The Fallen Star) that put me off of it a little. I haven't continued into Phase II or III at all, so I have no idea if those themes got continued in later books. I've heard generally good things about the Padawan book, I think.

The Cal Kestis video games, Fallen Order and Survivor, also have their small Jedi critical moments, but much like Rebels, it has these massive overarching themes and messages about compassion and selflessness and sacrifice and facing your fears and mercy. They are immensely Jedi positive in a lot of ways and I really enjoyed both of them.

So out of everything I have seen (and know about) the only stuff that's truly heinously and insultingly anti-Jedi is the Ahsoka show, the Acolyte, and Tales of the Jedi. Three shows and like 30% of one book. Out of a list of like ten different shows and one film and some books and video games. It's not even really HALF of the content we've been getting recently.

A lot of people talk about the Disney era like it's ruined Star Wars, or like nothing it releases has ever been good. But it just straight up isn't true. It's a little insulting to all of the genuinely wonderful work that is being done by all of these other creators to just brush aside everything that's been coming out recently as awful and bad because some of the MOST recent things have been pretty explicitly hateful towards the Jedi. It's not fun that we had the Ahsoka show immediately followed by the Bad Batch followed by the Acolyte. I hate that, too, it feels like we're on this neverending shitshow of stories explicitly aimed at hating a group of characters for no obvious good reason. But I don't think that the last 6 months or so of bullshit should overshadow some of the really beautiful stories we HAVE gotten within the last several years.

If you feel like things are getting difficult, maybe do a "good Star Wars" marathon of sorts. Watch the Prequels, followed by the Kenobi show, then Andor, then Rebels, then Rogue One, then the Original trilogy. This one long beautiful story of people stepping up to fight against selfishness and greed and darkness no matter what.

Or go rewatch Visions or read some of your favorite fanfics and remember all the things about Star Wars that are just universally cool and compelling across the world. Hell, you can try writing something of your own! Anything! A lot of my AU concepts stemmed from spite and really helped me feel a little bit better about Star Wars when it sometimes felt like I was just surrounded by the parts of it I liked the least. Go buy yourself a cool t-shirt or some fun jewelry. Find some pretty stickers and put it on a water bottle or an enamel pin to put on a canvas tote bag or a corkboard.

Curating your fandom experience goes beyond just the internet. There's a reason I am boycotting the Acolyte and it isn't because I think Disney or its creators are going to care at all. I'm doing it for ME, because I had such a shitty time watching the Ahsoka show and it made me so miserable each week that I seriously think I will be better off just leaving it the hell alone and just absorbing whatever ends up crossing my dash from a distance. I only participate in Star Wars fandom servers that I feel safe in and only really get into discussions with personal friends who I know well. If participating in Star Wars fandom is making you sad, maybe take a step back or find a way to create your own corner of fandom that feels better. Ignore the damn Ahsoka show, pretend it never existed. Ignore the Acolyte. Ignore Tales of the Jedi. Ignore Filoni-related bullshit. Focus on the parts you DO like, or give yourself the space to remember why you liked it in the first place.

[short-wooloo]

I now believe that we can confidently say that Clone Wars and Rebels are good in spite of filoni, not because of him

[redbean-nom]

now that i think about it the empire probably developed those anti-droid ports from rebels because of echo

[jedi-enthusiast]

I said I would get on my "let villains just be evil" soapbox again in the Jedi Appreciation server, so here we are.

LET VILLAINS JUST BE EVIL, FOR FORCE'S SAKE!!!

For some context: this was brought up on a discussion of how Kallus should've just stayed a villain instead of getting the shitty half-assed "redemption arc" that he did in Rebels and also how I would have done Rebels differently.

Now-

I am just...so utterly sick of people (both fans + some of the people creating new SW media) just not letting villains be villains and/or trying to soften them up or give them a sad backstory or whatever.

-----

I like Anakin/Darth Vader as a villain...fans try to justify his actions and say that he was right + Filoni is now under the delusional impression that Anakin was the "best Jedi."

I like Thrawn as a villain...I've also seen people justify his actions and say that he was "right" to steal important cultural artifacts from the cultures he's taking over/destroying because "they'd be destroyed anyway," like that makes it ok.

(I'm also terrified that Filoni is gonna try to give him some sort of sob story or redemption arc in the Ahsoka show, since that's pretty on par for what he's been doing lately)

I like Maul as a villain...and apparently people also try to justify his actions, especially in Rebels, for some reason. I don't even know how, but apparently they do.

I like Dooku as a villain and Filoni tried to justify his actions and make him seem "reasonable" in TotJ, like Dooku didn't become a fucking fascist dictator.

I haven't seen enough of the Sequels to properly gauge whether or not I'd like Kylo Ren as a villain, but plenty of people did! ...and then the directors gave him a half-assed redemption arc and called it quits.

-----

Like please, for the love of god, can people just let villains be evil and terrible people? Can we all just enjoy their characters as they are instead of trying to turn them into something they're not?

Because, at this point, the only villain that's safe to like is Palpatine--but I'm almost certain that people have tried to justify his actions too.

It's exhausting to have to explain-

"Yes, I like Anakin/Darth Vader because I think he's badass, no I don't think the Jedi were evil or in the wrong or that they caused his Fall."

"Yes, I like Thrawn because I think he's creepy and a formidable opponent to face, no I don't think he was benevolent for stealing cultural artifacts from cultures he destroyed."

"Yes, I like Maul because he's absolutely batshit insane, no I don't think his actions against Obi-Wan were justified or that he was right to try and manipulate/kidnap Ezra to be his apprentice."

"Yes, I like Dooku because he's a snarky asshole and also pretty badass, no I don't think that he was actually right or that the Separatists were right either."

etc. etc.

LET VILLAINS JUST BE EVIL!

[cross-my-heartt]

Kallus photobash edits! yes, he's a pretty boy, I take no criticism

fun fact: I did these before I'd even watched Rebels. also unpopular opinion but I prefer his hair slicked back hehe

(please don't repost/use without permission ty)

[cirr0stratus]

sabezra antis WIN

[stairset]

I do think it’s kinda funny seeing Thrawn fans be like “they’re gonna ruin him by portraying him as a villain” like we are talking about this guy right

[limeflavoredlobotomizer]

It’s being furious at Felony for squandering some of the most narratively interesting and thematically poignant villains Star Wars has ever come up with to promote his dumbass ocs and nostalgia bait with legacy characters (actively harming the characterizations and stories of said characters in the process!) hours again

[inquisitor-apologist]

The next time I see someone claim that Sabine Wren is a Swiftie, it’s on sight

Edit: this is a taylor swift hate post about how much I hate taylor swift. No I do not want to hear who you think would be a swiftie. No not Vader not Palpatine not Krennic not anyone get off my post

[nateofgreat]

The Ahsoka show is going to be real awkward with the context that it’s supposed to be a sequel to Rebels. Like she’s that one jerk who just tags along and makes everything about her.

Ahsoka Tano: I’m searching the unknown regions, looking to find myself...

Sabine: Actually we’re trying to find Ezra, remember? He gave me that message telling me he was counting on me?

Ahsoka Tano: I’m haunted by the ghost of my old master!

Sabine: Didn’t you make peace with that seconds after it happened? And just left the Rebellion to deal with him?

Ahsoka Tano: I’m forging a connection to an ancient force goddess!

Sabine: We’re supposed to be looking for Ezra!

Ahsoka Tano: Admiral Thrawn, my old rival!

Sabine: No, Ezra’s old rival! You weren’t even there for most of it!

Ahsoka Tano: I’ve rescued Ezra, my old friend.

Sabine: He’s my friend! I was the one he asked to find him!

Ahsoka Tano: And now it’s time for me to ascend to godhood!

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

My thoughts on the SW Filoni-verse (a rant)

Dave Filoni is pretty much single-handedly sustaining the sw franchise at this point and we all love him for it. His stories are amazing and, at least in my opinion, he has overall never disappointed. He also very clearly ramping up to something really huge.

However, I think anything he creates, whether that's an out of galaxy threat, Thrawn's return, or even just the rebirth of the jedi order, it's all been massively screwed over by the sequel trilogy.

Now I personally was not a big fan of the sequels, for a variety of reasons that I won't get into in this post. Disclaimer: if you enjoyed the sequels: that's great, I'm glad for you, everyone is entitled to enjoy what they want. BUT I think we all have to agree that no matter what we think of the sequels, they are rather restricting to all of the post-OG pre-sequel shows. Everything has to end in a way to set up the events of Force Awakens. Therefore no matter how threatening Thrawn is, or what lies beyond the galaxy, or how successful Luke is in starting to rebuild the jedi (or improve them), we know the ending.

Now you may ask, "But what about CW or Rebels? Those were still amazing shows with great (albeit heartbreaking) endings!" And I agree, they really were. But I think these new shows are all playing in a very different field than those older ones. The old shows were focusing on a much smaller time gap, first of all. Second, they also didn't have the problem needing to set up every single thing the characters are working for to fail in an extremely catastrophic way.

Again you can ask, "How does the second point apply to CW?" Well, when we were watching CW with the knowledge the jedi die and Anakin falls, we also had the assurance that what they fought for would prevail in the end, through Luke and the New Republic. But with the sequels, the Repiblic is basically destroyed, again, and this time there isn't much set up to it being remade. And Luke falls into the same trap as all the jedi before him, leading to the total destruction of the order, rather than the hopeful reformation ROTJ hinted at. Rey is probably not going to try to train new jedi and there aren't any strong political leaders to try and get the republic going again, at least none they bothered introducing to the audience.

Basically what I'm getting at is that SW is once again creating all these interesting shows that have to ultimately end in the protagonists failing. And I am so tired of that. Like there's only so many times I can sit there and watch characters I love and root for fail again and again. We know Ezra, Sabine, and Ahsoka have to die, and any other jedi trained. Fuck, Grogu and Jacen have to die too, or at least be too far away to impact the events of the sequels. And I don't know about everyone else, but I'm fucking sick of that kind of heartbreak.

(It's so frustrating that they chose to do the sequel trilogy when they did, like why can't SW ever go in order? Is that too much to ask?? It destroys so much potential or even interest in new things, and, at least for me, the outcome of the sequels isn't nearly enough to justify the suffering that has to happen in these new shows.)

[short-wooloo]

"Filoni ignored the thrawn books!"

Thrawn's first appearance was in Rebels season 3 episode 1, released in September 2016, the first thrawn novel was released in April of 2017, the sequel in prequel novels were then released in 2018-2022, after Rebels ended

Shockingly, filoni ain't at fault here, I'm afraid any inconsistency in characterization of thrawn between the novels and shows is on Timothy Zahn

"But ahsoka-"

Is building off from thrawn's characterization at the end of Rebels (which i will remind you, is when his calm, aloof, and reasonable facade is cracking and he's going into a full blown breakdown) his then most recent chronological appearance

Which brings up another thing

I think the very obvious implication of differences in characterization in works set decades apart is that the character has changed over time