#antitheists fuck off

[transmascpetewentz]

*sighs* well, here i am making this post, thank you antisemitic "leftists" for forcing me to spell it out for you.

"traditionally, the idea that all women/people generally should dress modestly has been a way of oppressing women and excusing men's misogyny" and "more recently, shaming women/people for dressing modestly and in some cases forcing them not to has been a way of targeting specific cultures, especially jewish and muslim communities" are statements that can and should coexist.

you're justified, and i'd encourage you to, critique how the new wave of "tradwives" believing that all women should be modest due to some biological difference are being openly misogynistic. that's all well and good, because these are white women from mostly xtian backgrounds who want to force their beliefs on everyone. you can and should also criticize when oppressed minorities weaponize misogyny, as long as you are sure you are correct that that's what's happening. but what i've been seeing on social media recently is nothing like just "criticism."

dressing modestly is a choice. just like you (general) should be free from people forcing you to dress a certain way, it's not in your right to force others, especially tznius-keeping jews and other minorities, to not dress in that way. simply, the way other people choose to dress isn't any of your business. just bc i post about being into modest fashion doesn't invite you, random atheist from reddit, into my inbox to scream about how i'm such a misogynist for... choosing to dress modestly as a trans man.

this post didn't make much sense but tl;dr: quit being annoying about people choosing to dress in accordance with the religious law that they follow, it's their personal choice.

[i-turn-characters-2-warrior-cats]

Bill Cipher evil medicine cat au?

I just thought of this and thought it would be really interesting

Sure!

Dumroll please......

WC Bill Cipher is the third (The first is technically Lightwalk and the second is technically Rainsoul, but I hadn't developed the idea enough) cat I will release in relation to the Pantheon! (A group of deities that exist in all the works here, used as influences/monsters if I need them).

The Pantheon is all represented by a different animal! Lightwalk, the crow. Rainsoul, the vulture. WC Bill Cipher, Goldengleam, the coyote. (And his brother is represented by a rabbit, but we won't be getting into that yet.)

Goldengleam takes on a multitude of names, but relies on this one as the name we all know and love (to hate). He, like most of the Pantheon, can shapeshift! He keeps the form of a cat, but does show off his coyote form from time to time.

I imagine Goldengleam is known as a very eccentric member of the Pantheon, being a tad sillier and more kit friendly than his brother (If you can figure it out I'll skip the queue and do his brother before any other requests I'm writing. I'll give you a hint, his brother is the WC version of who is basically him but without Disney to reel in the age rating.)

Since I don't really want to develop much of WC Gravity Falls plot beyond what I've revealed since we only have our main antagonist as of writing this, I'll do a bit about if he preferred medicine to talking to other cats, and then I'll leave you off with a story!

Goldengleam, if he acted as a medicine cat, or a healer for the society of Gravity, he would rely much more on poisons than talking other cats into doing his dirty work (Which I bet he relied on for much of Shooting Stars are just Meteors). Slipping a bit over here, oh no you're sick! How terrible!

And for the story.... (Inspired by parables in the bible)

Once upon a time, when the great beasts roamed the forest, an elk insulted a bear. The bear became angry, and challenged the elk to a fight, killing and eating the elk.

A coyote had something rude to say about this. "Well, that wasn't very polite. You've already eaten for leaf-bare, why take more?"

And the bear went, "Why, the elk was even ruder! He needed to be taught a lesson."

The coyote replied, "I'm quite sure the elk learned his lesson from your stomach." The bear found this offensive, and challenged the coyote to a duel. The coyote agreed to meet at sunhigh the next day, and both of them went to their dens.

The bear went to sleep immediately, but the coyote looked to the stars. "Hello? Stars? Please give me assistance. I am a coyote, I can not beat a bear, but I was right. Give me help, please."

And then the stars answered, with a cat, who said. "Hello, coyote. Go to the den of the bear, and begin piling sticks. If I do not deliver by dawn, you can call me whatever name you wish."

The coyote, not one to disobey an obvious answer from the stars, followed the commands of the cat, wondering why the stars did not send a spirit in the form of another coyote. Time passed, and it was nearly dawn, when the bear would wake up.

Once again, another spirit appeared behind him. It was another coyote, but a bright gold color instead of the light blue of the stars. It smiled, winked, and began to emit a terrifying force.

It was fire. The coyote watched in joy as the bear ran out from the den that was now on fire, only to be met with the coyote he had challenged to a duel.

The bear was furious. "You said we would meet at dawn!"

But the spirit replied first. "In your duel with the elk, you said that it would not be deadly. And then you ate his body. Now, I'm not one for rules, but it does seem that you threw away honor already. And besides, nobody said that the coyote couldn't set fire to your den!"

The bear was left speechless, and never bothered the coyote again.

That's all! If you desire more elaboration or another request, do not hesitate to contact me!

Byeee!

[hero-israel]

Let me tell you being a former Christian this shit goes so much deeper than a lot of born Jews realize. The Christian worldview (specifically Calvinist/Puritan) seeping into and pervading all of modern leftism is honestly frightening. But also it's very funny.

They believe that there are Good people and Bad people, and that any mistake or lapse in judgment or instance of not being educated is a Mask Off moment, showing who is a member of the Elect and who is not. If you fuck up, that's not just a fuck up, it's Revealing. You are damned, were always damned, you were just good at hiding it, and now we know the truth and are doubly angry because not only are you evil, you lied about it. The only recourse is to shun you, and if that leads to your death, so be it. Anyone who's seen any micro celebrity get canceled saw this in action.

And the only way you can prove you're a member of the Elect is to operate as if you have nothing to hide. You have to loudly and proudly proclaim your righteousness. If you don't have anything to hide why would you be worried? Privacy is suspicious. You Must Speak on everything they deem important or else you obviously agree with the Bad People. There is no room for discussion or healthy debate. There are no loopholes or subclauses or other points of view to consider. You're with us or against us. If you don't constantly go around saying you're with us, you're probably secretly against us. The only way to convince your neighbors, whom you inherently distrust, that you're one of the Good Ones, is to perform righteousness, parrot righteous words. The only way to redeem yourself is by grandiose acts of self flagellation, perhaps being the right demographic, or by accusing others of Heresy.

The goal is not to bring good into the world, it's to recruit more people into the same thought patterns (that's kind of all Christian denominations though). Because if you can convince your community that you're one of the Elect, that means G-d preselected you for Heaven, and you're golden. No repercussions or consequences baby. The only material benefit for you is that you "get" to proclaim you're going to Heaven and everyone has to agree with you. If anyone doesn't they're probably going to Hell anyway. You're on the right side (of history), so why should you ever self reflect or grow? Why should you question anything? Why should nuance or empathy exist? This is about Right and Wrong. We know where we stand, where do you stand?

Every single aspect of American culture and politics, right and "left" alike, was planted by the pilgrims, and it is so fundamentally antithetical to true Leftist thought. Remember all the actually successful Western Leftist movements were started in Europe (and Israel cough cough)... because they kicked all their fucking psychotic Calvinists out. Those people went to America and that's a big big big reason why we don't have any near as much of a robust Leftist movement as even socially conservative European countries (and Israel cough cough). And what's funny is I still find myself slipping into these thought patterns, which is so not compatible with Jewish philosophy or theology. It's been years and I'm still not done.

It's a hell of a drug to kick, so I definitely don't trust white goysiche college kids who've been antitheists for about 6 months since they left their Republican parents' homes to have any great success in unlearning and unprogramming from this. Which is kind of obvious in that I see them acting just like their conservative Christian parents every day on every social media platform, swap out a gun toting white Jesus with some noble savage idea of Palestine, absolving the West of its sins against the Global South.

It is a cult structured around spiritual isolation, antisocial behavior, and it is inherently against any kind of political movement that centers and celebrates the Community. It is designed to tear communities apart and foster obedience to whatever authority can force itself on them. And this has been going on for almost 500 years, there is nothing we can do about it.

Thank you for the insightful look. Their "purity culture" approach definitely had to come from somewhere.

[genderkoolaid]

I think people forget that atheism ≠ anti-theism. Like in the same way, say, asexuality ≠ anti-sex/sexuality. Somebody talking about how antisemitism is bad is not saying people who don't believe in god are Bad, they're saying being against religious people is bad. And for asexuality, not being sexual yourself does not automatically mean you are against people who are

From what I've seen the basis for antitheism is "religion is inherently harmful and getting rid of religion will improve the world." but the problems with that imo are:

religion is a made up concept that's almost meaningless. like its a well known issue that "religion" is such a vague concept that is deeply western which is why its often really really hard to apply it to the vast majority of human spiritual traditions. hell even "religio" in the context of roman polytheism doesn't map exactly onto the concept of "religion"! like in a lot of cases the line between "religion" and "philosophy" is blurred or nonexistent. not to mention that there are religious atheists. jewish atheists are probably the best example since judaism tends to be far more open to that kind of complexity & fosters a culture which allows people to engage with judaism in a variety of ways. but there are people who don't believe in god or jesus-as-savior but are christians for cultural or philosophical reasons. there are tons and tons of atheists buddhists because its a helpful way of engaging with life regardless of whether or not you believe in samsara literally. the idea that there is this strict binary between Religion and Atheism is, like all binaries, made up.

scapegoating religion for all of humanity's problems is just unhelpful. the idea that religion is this force will propels people to do bad things, and that without religion we wouldn't do them, ignores how humans shape religion to our benefit. there's a reason that wealthy kings who want to maintain power emphasize interpretations of the bible or quran that endorse war while downplaying the ones that endorse peace and compassion. for the same reason that people will support philosophies that view humans as inherently mean and violent and in need of control instead of ones that view us as capable of communal care and cooperation- you don't need to believe in a deity to create a reason why you need to kill another group of people and take their shit. religion is a way this happens, and its important that this is dealt with, but this is not a unique feature of religion. getting rid of religion will not fix our shitty behavior.

going off 1 and 2: trying to get rid of "religion" will inevitably mean fucking over marginalized groups who have already had their spirituality attacked and whose culture cannot be so easily separated from their spirituality. and even beyond that, antitheism is just another way of trying to force a belief onto people. believing in no god is no more objectively correct than believing in one, or any other spiritual concept. there are always going to be spiritual people. also you can say "but there are nonwhite/formerly nonchristian antitheists!!" as much as you want but that doesn't change that saying shit like "all your beliefs are childish and mentally ill, you need an educated intellectual to make you realize you are being stupid and irrational and make you think correctly" is absolutely some classic colonial white supremacist bullshit.

also trying to force atheism on people actually does not help atheists. because it in fact only makes it easier for people to stigmatize atheism as inherently destructive and hostile.

anyways now that anon can get mad for being a wretched child ranting about antitheism. now i've earned it.

[haveyouseenthishorrormovie]

before this goes any further, I want it on the record that you all asked for this.

my first and most petty point: Midnight Mass gets basic details about Catholicism wrong, such that even I (not a Catholic) twigged them. The big one is that Catholics DON'T HAVE MIDNIGHT MASS FOR EASTER - it's a Christmas thing - but since the priest holding the mass is also a vampire, I can accept that he's going off-book. I have a harder time with them holding a PICNIC for ASH WEDNESDAY, aka THE DAY LENT STARTS, aka the day everyone starts fasting and are therefore not snacking on a potluck. It's a minor thing, and normally I wouldn't pick at it, but since this show ostensibly revolves around Catholic doctrine, it bears mentioning.

on a writing level, not one single character in this show talks like a human being. or acts like one. I couldn't give you any information about who these characters are as people, because they're not people, they're mouthpieces for Flanagan to impart his ideas to the audience. He is both deeply in love with his own writing and entirely unconvinced that his audience is smart enough to Get It, so he has his actors turn to the audience and lay it all out. Not only is this bad writing on a character level, it brings all plot and tension to a screeching halt whenever it happens. The most unintentionally hilarious instance of this has to be when Annabeth Gish comes to the sheriff to tell him that the church is being run by a vampire and her mother is aging in reverse, and his response is to start rambling about where he was on 9/11. Like. Nothing about this makes sense, and also why should we care when it has fuckall to do with the story?

(as regards the sheriff character: I, a white Quaker, am not the person to critique this show's handling of Islam. But I will say that Flanagan doesn't seem to have a clear idea what he wants to communicate: the overarching plot is antitheistic, in a very r/atheism sort of way ("WHAT IF THE SACRAMENT WAS VAMPIRE BLOOD" ooh wow didja cut yourself on that edge there, buddy) but Flanagan has no idea how to balance that with the precepts of any religion that isn't Christianity while also maintaining his broadly liberal bona fides, so it all sits very uneasily next to the church plot. I'm not advocating for the show to go full Christopher Hitchens, but I am saying that if Flanagan wants to posit that faith is a mass delusion and a net detriment to any community formed around it . . . he needs to either focus only on Christian characters or be willing to engage with how other religions function in society, because as is, the storyline with the sheriff and his son just peters out into nothing.)

but the thing that made me angriest - that took me from "this is so boring and pretentious and badly written" to "oh FUCK this guy and the horse he rode in on -" was the titular midnight mass. It is very overtly inspired by the Jonestown massacre, which a lot of horror media does, but what it fails to account for is that the members of the People's Temple did not voluntarily kill themselves. I know "drink the kool-aid" has entered the popular lexicon as shorthand for "blindly following a leader," but extensive testimony from Jonestown survivors - not to mention the death tape, which is available online if you really want to ruin your day - all confirms that the people who died that day were forced to drink poison at gunpoint, after years of brutal abuse from Jones and his inner circle. And even after all of that, people fought back. And not outsiders - people who had been in the Temple for years and wholeheartedly believed in the mission that had lead them to Guyana in the first place. (Christine Miller was a fucking hero and she deserves to be remembered for it.) Jonestown was not lemmings going off a cliff, and any serious take on the story would involve reckoning with that - that these people believed in a higher power and also believed that they had a right to live despite what Jones told them. But that would contradict Flanagan's point of "religion is dumb, WAKE UP SHEEPLE," so instead he borrows the iconography of a truly horrific tragedy and disrespects the victims by implicitly representing them as dumb, brainwashed cult members who eagerly toss back poison because they think sky daddy wants them to. He has so little respect for the subjects he's portraying, and the real people whose deaths he is copying for shock value, that he doesn't care about the inner lives of anyone whose beliefs might demonstrate that faith is more nuanced than his screed would have you believe.

There are good horror properties out there that are critical of religion and society - The Medium, which we posted about a few days ago, is one. The Witch is another. So is The Sudbury Devil. Hell, you could go back to the sixties with Witchfinder General. Religion - especially socially dominant religions like Christianity in the west - can and should be critiqued. But Midnight Mass is too sloppily written to be a critique of anything besides, accidentally, how far Mike Flanagan's head is shoved up his ass.

Anyway, that's why mod L doesn't like Midnight Mass. I did warn you.

[hidden-1n-the-sand]

Welcome to Whitespace…

Intro post time :D Name(s): Dan, Julian, Bug, Hally, Uzi, Sam, Cosmo, Cyn

Pronouns: They/Them, Xe/Xem, It/Its, He/Him

Some things about me:

I am Neurodivergent :D

I am a sex repulsed asexual, so porn blogs fuck off

English is not my first language, so sometimes things I write might be worded weirdly 

I use tone tags

I sometimes actually write down my silly ideas so occasionally I might post them here :]

I’m TheFlannelMoth on discord :D

I have BPD and NPD, and people keep telling me I have ASPD

Interests:

Starkid

RTC

Omori

Murder drones

Kai Drew

Tally Hall

Minecraft

Planes

KaboodleSMP

Smosh

BYF:

Mutuals, please tag any Max x Grace and Richie x Max with #Dan don’t look

My vent tag is #Reflections of a bug, block it if you don’t wanna see my vents

DNI:

Terfs, zionists, antitheists, endos, proana/thinspo, anti-choice, homophobes, aphobes, ableists

[nonegenderleftpain]

"Abrahamic" this, "Judeo-Christian" that, JUST SAY XTIAN MY GD YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT

The xtian god and the Gd that I (maybe) believe in as a Jew are not the same thing. Judaism and xtianity are not the same religion with a different skin. In all the antitheist and atheist ranting about religion, I have never seen one person with anything educated to say about Judaism. Y'all base your anger on xtianity and make it our problem, shit on our beliefs while conflating them with the very people who have tried to kill us for two thousand years, and then have the gall to mock us when we tell you you're wrong about what we believe. Fuck off.

[complicitsacrilege]

You're wrong about MGM. Do you honestly think that mutilating a child's genitals PREVENTS infections? Girl that's an open wound on a child that pisses and shits in the same diaper. And are you unaware that we have this thing called ANTIBIOTICS. Those help against bacterical infections, not open wounds. Babies die from complications after genital mutilation, not to mention the times it goes wrong and they end up with no penis left (ask David Reimer, oh no wait, he killed himself after being forced to live as a girl after they mutilated his penis). We don't live in the middle ages anymore, so get your head out of your ass and stop promating middle age practices. BABIES CANT CONSENT TO COSMETIC SURGERY. And fuck your religion argument too, BABIES ARE NOT RELIGIOUS THEY ARE BABIES THEY CANT EVEN TALK YET

Hi, hello, wow that is a lot of anger. Maybe it’s time to log off for a bit and breathe. But if you insist on flipping the hell out in my ask box, here you go:

A: do NOT fucking refer to me as ‘girl’.

B: I never said anything about agreeing with ANY kind of surgery performed on nonconsenting parties (child or otherwise), circumcision included. I can understand why it is done for both religious and medical reasons but I’m not sure you comprehend the difference between understanding and agreeing.

C: wow, have you considered not attacking random strangers on the internet without having an OUNCE of reading comprehension? These were my exact tags:

Easy to Read Translation: circumcision is its own issue. There are reasons, both medical, and obvious cultural/religious, why it is done. When are we going to talk about the shit that is done to intersex people (by the medical community - prob should’ve specified that I guess)? (Which is a completely separate issue.)

When did I say that I agreed with it? And when did I ever say that surgeries should be performed on intersex people? I do not see where that is said here. I can understand misunderstanding my words but like… where did you get the entire opposite meaning? Also like… I rarely ever bring it up, so most people don’t know, but I’m an antitheist, so joke’s on you about the religion argument. I think all theistic religions are unethical to some degree, but that doesn’t mean I can’t respect the people who practice them or the cultural significance that they hold.

D: again. I do not agree with performing surgery on infants or people who cannot consent in general, but the CDC has stated that circumcision does, in fact help reduce the risk of some types of infection. This is something for consenting individuals to discuss with their doctors. Obviously. https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp-newsroom/factsheets/male-circumcision-for-hiv-prevention.html#:~:text=Circumcised%20men%20compared%20with%20uncircumcised,%25%20to%2047%25%20percent).

E: Kindly fuck off because this is all the attention you will be receiving from me.

[zeitghost]

me: wow this christian rock music goes hard

devil on my shoulder with bleached hair and white paint all over his body: Yesss… it doessss go hard… you should walk into a Catholic church playing this at full blassssst. The people will be rapt in prayer.

Angel on my shoulder: Dude that’s not me. That’s clearly just the devil wearing a shitty disguise. That’s not even Christian rock, it’s breakcore.

Antitheist on my shoulder: Now let’s hold off on the Catholic church. I think we could do more damage to the Mormons with this.

Technical engineer on my shoulder: If we boost the speaker output by 250%, we could hit both at once. Much to work on…

Angel on my shoulder: Can anyone fucking hear me? Who are these people?

[fierceawakening]

Okay, so speaking as someone who was raised Christian, went full on ex-Christian antitheist, and now practices Christianity in a way that seems relevantly similar to how this person describes their religiosity ("I don't think there is a God, but the rituals connect me to other people and help ground me in my personal values, so I like them anyway")... I've been trying to think of what I dislike about these sorts of post, and I think I finally have hit on it.

People like this are right when they say "people who've abandoned a religion imposed abusively on them can't understand why other people wouldn't do the same thing." I was BAFFLED for a long time by the people at the church I'd left. They were nice! Why would nice people keep doing rituals dedicated to a god that I saw as inherently abusive ("love me or be eternally punished," and they chose "okay then I love you," as I saw it then)? The only way I could make sense of that was to think either they were painfully stupid or they were stuck in the creepy cult I'd narrowly escaped. Either made me feel profoundly uncomfortable.

But the thing that I think people saying that miss is... the people saying that don't seem (to me, anyway, as I read their posts) to understand why someone could have such a violently negative reaction to their culture of origin to want to cast it off entirely.

That's what they're not getting. They're like "but these dietary traditions aren't nearly as confusing as 'is there a God?' so why wouldn't I keep them even if I'm agnostic or atheist? SEE, YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL MY CULTURE."

Where... no, I don't think so. I think the ex-Christian atheist is just so revolted by the thought that they've been part of an abusive relationship ("love me or I'll hurt you forever!") that they want to discard EVERYTHING that reminds them of it, and that because the response that makes you brave enough to leave an abuser is so visceral, "sure but I kept the necklace they gave me, I like it" seems really fucking weird to them.

Ex-Christians are VERY often behaving like survivors who have very recently left abuse. They are not trying to get you to act a little Christian to make themselves feel better. They are not understanding how you can get to "God most likely doesn't exist" without then going "and therefore, I can stop hurting myself, and am free."

They hear you saying your relationship is healthy, but they’re not in a place where they can believe that yet. I wasn’t for a very long time myself! I wouldn’t have tried to demand people deconvert, that would be controlling, but I did Vaguely Worry when they didn’t.

It's not an attack. Give them time, and maybe they can even get to "I do a lot of Christian stuff but don't believe God exists, because some of the cultural bits that aren't toxic as hell are valuable to me.” I got there! I'm weird, but I'm not crazy.

But when you say "It's Christian of you to want to fully reject Christianity," that's baffling. No it's not. It's natural and normal for people to want to jettison anything that remotely reminds them of an abusive relationship they were in.

It's not intentional judgment that makes them not understand why you're not doing the same thing. It’s typical minding.

Which is bad! I’m not saying it isn’t. But it’s not a hidden devotion to a secretly Christian agenda.

[unbidden-yidden-deactivated20240]

How is that binary bluejay person STILL not understanding that just because THEY PERSONALLY don't find meaning in culture that it doesn't mean other people don't and it's fucked up to act like only the things they see value in are worthy of sticking around?

They go full mask off if you look at their other posts about religion. It's not about "lacking a care for culture" they go into the whole "theists believe falsehoods and that's objectively harmful" spiel

I can't really speculate on why people wanna think and act like the world revolves around their wants and needs; all I can say is that proselytizers come in all stripes, and antitheists are some of the worst offenders.

[bisexualseraphim]

wait you’re actually Christian but also lgbt? how does that work?

So I’ve got a bit of a funny relationship with religion — I was actually raised Iehovah’s Witness at first (yeah that’s a story to tell…), decided I didn’t like that one bit, was then raised Protestant for a while, became antitheist out of rebellion, studied religion in depth, went through a few different phases, and then finally rejoined the Church as a Protestant again.

However, I would describe myself as more of an agnostic-Christian; I do not take any edition of the Bible at face value or, pardon the pun, as gospel. I also don’t see God as some bearded old dude in the sky who loves us yet has nothing better to do other than spread disease and watch us destroy all species.

Some people might find that contradictory and I do understand that, but I personally find it a lot more productive and comforting to see the Bible kind of like Aesop’s Fables — these events did not actually happen the way they are depicted, but there are valuable lessons to be learned from them and they are personal and open to interpretation by everyone who reads them. Every Christian you meet will have a different opinion on what it “actually” says and means. You’d be surprised how many claim that Ezekiel’s descriptions of angels are “wrong” despite literally being there within the text. At the end of the day it is a book, just like any other. No interpretation is strictly right or wrong.

…Which is exactly why I despise Christians who use it to excuse their hatred. “I interpret the Bible as saying that men having sex with men is wrong.” Okay? That’s personal to you. So just don’t have sex with men as a man if you don’t want to. However, many other people don’t interpret it that way or just aren’t Christian to begin with, so for you to tell them that their identity or their personal lives are against God is cunt behaviour. You are not Christ himself, it is not your job to “save” them or whatever the fuck. Mind your business.

I just think trying to apply a magical story that was written thousands of years ago in many different languages that can be translated and interpreted in many different ways to the real world in the 21st century is pointless and can only lead to a life of misery. I mean, Hell isn’t even spoken about in the Bible the way that 99% of Christians speak of it. Dante made up most of that shit in Inferno about 2700 years after the Bible’s first ever conception. They’re literally basing their idea of Hell off of, essentially, a fanfiction poem when they tell us that that’s where us gays are headed. They don’t even actually read the text they hold so dear lmao. You’re not technically supposed to wear mixed fabrics or shave your beard or cut your hair or get tattoos according to the Bible but that always goes ignored too 🤷🏻‍♂️ You can’t do all that but then rag on trans people for “rejecting His image” or whatever the fuck. People are the way God made them, and God made trans people. Not that anyone follows the Bible to the letter anyway. That would be practically impossible. (And, as I said, not everyone is Christian and interested in abiding by the Bible.) In short, do whatever the fuck you want as long as it’s not hurting anybody else. Love yourself and love each other.

So yeah, it’s a bit of a weird one for me. I think the Bible is a very interesting story regardless of whether it’s “real” or not and many could get something out of reading it if you just see it as kind of a cool comic book or something. I find the idea of Heaven and an afterlife comforting and I value the teachings of Christ. At the same time, I am open to all other religions and their teachings. Everyone has their own perspective on who or what God actually is — or many Gods, of course — and nobody has any right to tell them that they are wrong, because we simply don’t know. I think anyone who has studied the Bible would also greatly benefit from reading the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, etc to open up their world view a little more.

I just think it’s such a shame that religion is often used to divide when it could instead be used to connect and relate with others. I had many Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu friends as a kid and I greatly enjoyed discussing with them our respective texts and how they differed, but were also in many ways similar. And I do admit I sometimes feel ashamed for being part of a group who so often see an ancient book as the entire meaning of life, the universe, and everything and use it to deny human rights or even fucking science.

Facts and science should always come before faith, end of story. Science is a universal truth whereas faith is personal belief. And you should always, always, when you can, be kind. “Love thy neighbour as thyself” and all that. Funny how that always gets ignored. Just goes to show that people who spread hatred have some serious self-esteem issues.

And I hate all forms of bigotry but one that especially gets on my nerves is antisemitism by Christians because it is entirely baseless and Christianity literally would not exist if it weren’t for the Jewish people. (Not that bigotry ever has an excuse but you get my meaning.) Jesus was not killed by “the Jews.” Jesus WAS a Jew and he was persecuted by — who else — the Romans. And even if he was killed by Jewish people (he wasn’t) that still wouldn’t excuse any of the horrific things done to them throughout history. Antisemitism has been a problem since Judaism first became a concept thousands of years ago and I cannot express how much it saddens and disappoints me that it’s still so commonplace today. Many people are even antisemitic without realising due to all the dogwhistling (“lizard people rule the world,” anyone?). It’s abhorrent.

But yeah. It’s complicated. To sum up: I love Jesus. I believe in Something that created us but not necessarily exactly as the Bible says. I believe most if not all of the Bible is metaphorical and therefore using it to justify treating others shittily is bullshit. I believe science should always come before faith and church should always be separated from the State. Religion is deeply personal and therefore trying to enforce your personal beliefs and values from it onto others is, at the very least, fucking rude and preachers can kiss my well-bathed arse. I believe all religions are valid and have value and, if I’m being honest, I am primarily Christian rather than anything else due to its familiarity to me. If me from 20 years into the future time travelled back here and told me I’d end up becoming Jewish or Buddhist or Hindu or something else, I’d be completely fine with that. I am always curious about the world around me and try to be as open as possible, and, above all else, compassionate. (Except to bigots and to anyone else who’s plain cruel but I don’t feel like I can be particularly faulted for that.) And I believe Christianity and the Church as an institution has a lot of issues that it needs to answer for.

I don’t know if I’ve at all explained myself well here but if anyone has any more questions my inbox is always open. (But if you come in to say anything homophobic or transphobic or antisemitic or whatever the fuck in the name of the Bible you can go fuck yourself ✌🏻)

[everything-mormons-hate]

hi um im on anon for now but

basically im an agnostic (?) queer person who was raised in a lds family and ive been reading a lot about the fucked up stuff that actually goes on. as someone who has almost no support circle outside the church, i would love to know if there are any online resources i can get to learn more about the hidden aspects of the church and possibly connect with other ex lds members for help (i heard theres a subreddit?) because frankly im fuckin terrified right now

thank you so much in advance!

Hi! Sorry for the late response I'm admittedly not on here very much anymore. the CES letter is a really classic place to start. I also used to love the podcast No man knows my herstory. I admittedly don't really hang around many exmormon groups anymore due to some annoyances I have with antitheistic approaches to life so I'm not really sure of a great jumping off point anymore for finding community. You're also more then welcome to message me if you ever want to talk about anything I realized I didn't believe in Mormonism anymore when I was 14 (in about 2016-2017) and am almost 21 now and have been living separate from my family for almost three years so I have quite a bit of experience both in actively living with your Mormon family as well as when your not and navigating that and am always happy to talk. It's really fucking terrifying at first ❤️

[automatismoateo]

"Our civilization is founded on Christian principles" No the fuck not via /r/atheism

"Our civilization is founded on Christian principles" No the fuck not This is just it. Our civilization is founded on Greek principles of democracy and Roman government structures. I hate the fact that this complete lie/misconception is commonly told despite the fact that it is objectively wrong infuriates me. Sure, a few christian things were incorporated into this Greco-Roman democracy style we have, but that means that the foundation is not christian. Do you also think that being an atheist isn't enough? I feel like just not believing in anything isn't helping. I have come to see myself as an antitheist, so in a way, I'm not even posting this in the correct subreddit. Religious thought and practices have to be put in check, otherwise they grow. Living in a Catholic majority country, I feel like I am a sane person living in the middle of a schizophrenic society, composed of people making decisions based on complete cognitive distortions of reality. I don't understand religious people, I really don't. I feel like either everyone is crazy and I'm sane, or I'm the crazy one. But I know that I'm not crazy! I don't think I'll be going somewhere to live eternally in a good place after I die, that's what crazy people believe! Though I do understand how fucking sad it is to not see our loved ones forever. Because when they die, they're gone. Is religiousity just a form of death denial? Sorry for rambling, I just needed to get some thoughts off my mind. Submitted June 26, 2024 at 10:34PM by Gold_Ad_5614 (From Reddit https://ift.tt/tv0gn1A)

[dandelyle]

well I am an antitheist and I'll say it with my whole chest: organized religion is what's holding us as a species back. we would be better off if they didn't exist. I know it's an unpopular statement, but fuck it. maybe people would find another way to be bigoted assholes (probably) but religion is a major tool in the bigot's tool belt, and it's time we recognize that. "my ancient book says there's something wrong with certain types of love" "my ancient book says people who don't worship my god the exact same way i do should all be killed" "my ancient book says children must obey adults and women must obey men and encourages violence in order to enforce that" etc etc

i wholeheartedly believe that religion is a farce designed to create and uphold a false hierarchy, and the ones whom it benefits most are probably the ones who designed it that way in the first place. Just like literally every other system of oppression.

these are organizations who are determined to gain power, control their followers through lies and manipulation, take and make money. You may argue "oh but what about religious charities that help the needy!" yeah uh huh, a lot of those will only offer help if whoever they're helping converts or gives up something in return.

I don't trust religious organizations, I don't trust religious people, and in this day and age, I don't understand why they even still exist. it's all bullshit

[ninjakittenarmy]

People generally understand that toxic behavior isn’t ok just because it has its origins in trauma. Like being a misogynist or a terf isn’t ok because you had bad experiences with members of the opposite gender for example. And generally we get that if you treat people like shit, they’re allowed to be mad at you.

But as soon as you say hating on a religion because of religious trauma isn’t ok, suddenly that’s insensitive somehow. Like, I’m supposed just grin and bear it while people talk shit about my most cherished beliefs and customs because people from my faith have been horrible to them.

Fuck that shit.

Look, I’m genuinely sorry for what happened to you and disgusted with the people responsible but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna take that shit lying down. You’re not exempt from judgement for your shitty behavior because of trauma. You’re no better than the people you claim to hate because you assume that everyone similar to them because of other factors. No form of bigotry is intrinsic to any group that isn’t explicitly founded on said bigotry. And no, whatever religion you’re thinking about right now was not founded on bigotry as a major tenet. Not Islam, not Christianity, not Judaism, not Hinduism, not Buddhism, not Zoroastrianism, none of them.

The antitheists I’ve encountered tend to come in two forms. One type hates all religions and paints them with the same brush, one type only opposes specific religions. They hate each other.

Type one is your typical militant atheist who reads Richard Dawkins and thinks some stuffy old British guy understands every culture enough that if he paints them all with the same brush, they don’t need to look any further. The irony of these people claiming to stand for equality and understanding and tearing down the oppressive institutions of the past is truly astonishing. It’s literally just good old fashioned European colonialism except that you’re saying your religion is bad too. Just ignore the fact that all of the traditions you hold dear and the majority of ideas considered foundational to your “secular” society were developed by Christians in a predominantly Christian culture with Christian ideas ingrained in their way of life who cited Christian scripture in their writings.

Of course it just so happens that every idea from another that sounds strange or superstitious or pointless to you, any holiday with odd sounding festivities who’s significance you don’t get, any common social customs that seem “restrictive” even if it’s fully egalitarian, any lack of interest in common foodstuffs traditionally not within their dietary laws, any ideas that are extremely in line with ideas like tolerance and liberty and egalitarianism, even any ideas that are exactly like yours but that people took the time to justify with their faith, just as the people who introduced it to you did, is the product of religious indoctrination. A relic of the past they’d be better off without. You just need to enlighten them. Never mind that these are cherished customs hurt no one and may even help them in the same way yours help you. They not like us, they’re not “enlightened”.

One laughable thing that I’ve seen countless antitheists like say if you take offense to their rhetoric is “well it’s not just YOUR religion. I make fun of/hate ALL religions!” Even without the biases above, how is you hating other religions supposed to make you BETTER? You’re just an even bigger bigot. You suck even more!

Type two tends to say that while they don’t hate religion in general, they hate ONE in particular. Now, you may be asking, how is that any different from plain old discrimination? How is that any different than your conservative uncle who hates Muslims?

That’s a good question! And I’d love to hear an answer from them that makes some fucking sense!

See these people aren’t any different from the Trump supporters who wanted a Muslim ban in the States, but they SAY they are because THIS religion is the bad one! No for real, it’s totally legit! Bro trust me!

These people fancy themselves progressives. Usually they target whatever religion is dominant in their region. Whichever one they hear cited when people justify reactionary beliefs. That’s obviously The Bad One. All the others are just misunderstood. No other religion has these issues.

And then when you point out that other cultures with different religions totally have a lot of the same issues, and all of them have several unique ones that other religions don’t have, just like The Bad One, suddenly you’re deflecting! How dare you bring up problems other cultures have when our culture also has problems! Ignore that pertinent information or you’re a xenophobic bigot!

These antithesists unsurprisingly often find themselves allying with reactionaries from other religions that hate the same one. Hate Christianity? Side with far right extremists and governments in the Middle East! They HATE Christianity! And also a lot of other religions that face just as harsh persecution but you know, details. They’re over there, Christianity affects ME PERSONALLY. Yeah I saw Hamas flying Swastikas and establishing ties with Neo Nazis, but they oppose Israel! Which is mainly Jewish, not Christian, but I never bothered to learn the difference!

It goes the other way too. There are indeed a lot of ex-Muslims, for example, who back reactionary politicians in non-Muslim nations because they hate the religion for similar reasons people hate Christianity. We don’t look fondly on them here in the West because the horrors of Islamophobia are well known. The idea of Christianity facing the same issues abroad is treated as absurd despite countless cases of it world wide. But that’s what they think of Islam too.

The ultimate paradox of antitheism is that it nearly universally claims to support progress and the breaking down of barriers between peoples and an end to ethnic discrimination, while also being a fundamentally colonialist and ethnocentric mindset. They wish to aggressively spread non-religion just as the colonialists of the past did with their own faiths. After all, why not? Our way is the better way, shouldn’t everyone else be like us?