#any progress i thought was made re my relationship with my father was superficial and fleeting. or just topical. no depth. no real work done | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

filmmakerdreamst · 4 years

Text

‘Boy Meets World’ Re-watch (as an Adult)

‘Girl Meets World’ doesn’t count as a sequel. Not because of the writing/tonal choices but because in the original show - despite continuity issues - the characters felt like real people e.g. the way they spoke/acted/dressed was the way people behaved in the 90s where as in the spin off, they were Disney characters e.g. hyper versions of themselves especially Cory and Eric. And the transition between both shows didn’t come naturally. It’s not an objectivity badly written show but it was pretty much a re-do of the old show with the same storylines/tropes without continuing the story. (I say the same thing about ‘The Incredibles’. vs ‘Incredibles 2’.) Also there were too many cooks in the kitchen pushing one way or another. You could see Micheal Jacobs style, all the aspects were there, but he was also creating a ‘DISNEY’ show at the same time. I don’t know about you but the one message I took from the original show was ‘finding out that life cannot be packenged into a lovely little present ’ which kind of contradicts everything that the new show is. If anything GMW is an AU universe (and it really felt like that, rewatching it right after BMW e.g. it felt flipped) almost like Disney’s version of ‘what happened next?’ The primal difference between both shows is BMW is portraying what is real and GMW is based on what is real.

Going off my point, I will however be always thankful that it exists because I probably wouldn’t of found out about ‘Boy Meets World’ otherwise. Although saying that, I never thought that the original show needed a continuation of any kind (a lot of things make sense about the spin off if you acknowledge that Disney requested it - I think it would of been much better off on its original platform) ‘Boy Meets World’ was very much a product of its time i.e. when tv shows were still relevetivley new and had no rules - like there is stuff in there that not even adult shows today have. Plus there was something about it that felt very personal (such as the characters and setting) as if the creator based it on his own childhood growing up and I think that was part of its charm and why it had such a big effect on pop culture - I’m not so sure you can repeat that.

BMW is big on meta I’ll tell you that. I love how it’s so aware of itself. The amount of depth that it has never ceases to amaze me. It’s whole universe is so dense and huge. Every quote/storyline is so unique it sticks in your brain forever. (I swear the humour got more and more deranged every season). The show was also incredibly queer and progressive. It didn’t give a crap about sexuality. Much more than I remember. Proof to never use ‘but it was made in the 90s’ excuse.

I loved how the show kept reinventing itself every season as Cory grew up so you really felt you were growing up with him and all the characters. The Character Development on this show was so natural/authentic. Every single character got a chance to shine. No one changed their look in one episode and no one had an intervention every time someone had an identity crisis (GMW) My favourite development was Shawn Hunter. He went from a cool kid to a ladies man to a poetic soul. It was so satisfying to watch.

I realised that Cory Matthews is actually my favourite character (before it was Eric or Shawn) I already have a special soft spot for ‘annoying’ characters because they tend to be the most memorable/real. For example, Karma Ashcroft from ‘Faking it’ was my babe while everyone was hating on her. I really related to his anxiety/self hatred about being average and I loved that he constantly made mistakes. It was very refreshing. He’s also incredibly queer-coded. I found that alot of his mannerisms make sense if you see him with extreme compulsory heterosexuality (because identity’s such as bisexual or gay couldn’t exist normally in the 90s) There are moments in the show where he literally mimics his best friend’s behaviour around girls e.g. when the class pretty much gets brainwashed by the sex ed video in ‘Boy Meets Girl’ Shawn gets asked out by a girl, making Cory jealous - which pushes him to ask out Topanga.

It’s funny how a few years of life experience can change perspectives completely because when I was sixteen (aka the same age as Cory and Topanga) watching BMW for the first time, I was mad at Amy for ‘not understanding that they were in love’ (in ‘A Walk to Pittsburg’) but now that I’m older I’m actually agreeing with her. Yeah, what do they know about love? Because all season long they were acting quite superficially.

Cory and Topanga became somewhat of a toxic couple in seasons 5 -7. Reminded me of my parents relationship because my mum gave up her chosen university to be closer to my dad and they aren’t together any more. Topanga’s love for Cory was very conditional and Cory cheated on her multiple times/openly begged for sex (Again like my parents) And you should never be in a relationship with someone who makes you say “You make me think not so very much of myself” There are arguably much more signs of emotional abuse than love in their relationship especially from Topanga’s side. Plus their story was altered so many times to give it more basis (they retconned Shawn and Cory’s friendship to do this) I could write an essay on how Kevin and Winnie’s love story on ‘The Wonder Years’ is much more believable because it actually addresses how toxic it was and they grow apart in the end. If GMW was a realistic continuation, they would be divorced with a little girl - leave them in the 90s where they belong.

Alan and Amy were couple goals! Cory and Topanga wish that they could have what they have. Literally the definition of ‘a healthy relationship on tv that keeps thriving and over coming obstacles without big drama’. Best TV parents ever.

I loved the Matthews family; how they all had individual arcs and developments of their own. One of my favourite arcs was in season 5, when Eric and Cory were both jealous of what they ‘didn’t have’ with their dad, so Alan made an effort to give them both that they needed. Honestly, I had never seen so much healthy communication on TV before. Alan is the best father around. His whole personal arc of giving up managing a supermarket because he wasn’t passsionate about it anymore and buying a mountain store was so inspired. I found it funny that the family had more of a relationship with Shawn than Topanga.

Shawn Hunter never caught a break. It got a bit tiring. He was never allowed to be happy for five minutes. Every time he laughed or smiled, 5 years were added onto my lifespan. Why didn’t Johnathan Turner adopt him? I loved their dynamic. Why did he let him go back to his abusive father who just dumped him anyway?

Jack and Shawn’s complicated dynamic was possibly the most unique/interesting arc of the entire show and no one talks about it. I don’t care what y’all say - despite them being very different, Jack was the only one who fully took care of Shawn without second thoughts (Turner and the Matthews family had doubts)

I liked Shawn and Angela. I thought they were much better suited than Cory and Topanga. I honestly wouldn’t of minded if they ended up together even though I always had a feeling they wouldn’t. (Like I’m glad she went with her dad in the end) And considering how important they were as a interracial couple in the 90s, GMW handled that very poorly.

Shawn and Cory should of ended up together. And before you come at me with ‘it’s important to have m/m friendships without toxic masculinity’ (which is an important arguement to have) - yeah no shit there’s an entire Industry based around that/pitting women against each other. While it is important to have those friendships between men that are close and even intimate (take Chandler and Joey, Schmidt and Nick, Isak and Jonas and Jake and Charles for example) there was also another layer to their relationship which the narrative played off sometimes as them “going out” or “in love”. I actually recently found out that a writer - who came into the show in season 3 - confirmed that she wrote gay undertones into their relationship on purpose ‘In my opinion as a writer, they thought they were “straight”, they both didn’t realise or understand their feelings for eachother’ but couldn’t deliever because the producers wanted to keep the show “kid friendly”. Kind of like Xena and Gabby. I know people prefer Jack & Eric (I love them as well) but everything got ruined for me as soon as they introduced the ‘love triangle’ and I always tend to prefer emotional tension over sexual. They were just so unconditional with each other/ their friendship was so good and healthy and now I’m so bitter that it never happened.

I never understood why Shawn and Cory had to stop being best friends after he got married. He’s not Topanga’s property. I always hated how Topanga tried to interrupt/interfere with their dynamic — although now I realise it was because the two of them purposely left her out. Looking back at it, If it really was just a intimate friendship then why would she get so easily jealous if she didn’t sense there was something else deeper going on? You should never marry someone who puts you second.

I didn’t like Topanga when she was with Cory (or vice versa) Especially after they got married. She was a great character on her own. Feminist before her time. Hermione Granger before her time. I always felt she deserved a lot better than him in a way e.g. if someone I considered a friend speard a rumour around high school that we slept together - I would never speak to that person again. SHE SHOULD OF GONE TO YALE GOD DAMN IT. And as someone pointed out the other day, if the roles were reversed some of the stuff she does or says to Cory would be considered domestic violence. ‘She’s always blaming Cory on shit that isn't even his fault or makes him feel bad or shuts down his emotions and turns it around so he's comforting her instead.’ There was even a moment in GMW (not that I consider that show a continuation) where she locks him out the house for a few days after he insulted her chicken, and his son Auggie had to bring him spaghetti. If Cory was a woman, that would not be played off as a joke - that would be considered abuse. They were however a better couple in GMW ironically.

Angela Moore is now one of my favourite characters on BMW. She was beautiful. Her friendship with Rachel (and Topanga) was the best. And I frickin’ loved her and Cory’s friendship development - when they could of easily not played into that. I hate that she got villiaized in GMW.

My favourite seasons are 4, 5 & 1. My least favourites are 3 & 2 & 7. And even then the show was still pretty darn good.

The back and fourth clash between Turner and Mr Feeny in season 2 was very entertaining.

Mr Feeny and Eric are my favourite relationship on ‘Boy Meets World’. I love how Eric was the only person that Feeny directly told that he loved him. Also, why didn’t Eric become the new Mr Feeny? He showed more traits of becoming a teacher in the show than Cory did.

Eric and Tommy was probably the most heartbreaking plot line in season 6. (That season was an emotional train wreck) I cried for a fourth time. The world doesn’t deserve him.

I loved the development of Shawn and Topanga’s friendship. Even though there was a silent competition over Cory, they eventually became good friends. I found out that the song ‘She will be loved’ was inspired by them which is awesome but it’s also proof that people ship for less if it’s an m/f dynamic - just sayin’. I however see a more convincing potiental romance with the two of them than Cory and Topanga sometimes.

On Cory and Topanga again - they weren’t a bad couple overall. I liked them in s1 - 3. They had some great moments. But upon my rewatch (getting out of that 90s idealised headspace) I found them to be too similar at times - chafing as another person put it - to the point where they cancel each other out. A lot of people pointed out that Riley and Maya paralleled them and I was thinking “That’s not nesserily a good thing.”

‘Dream. Try. Do good.’ is on my mantelpiece.

203 notes · View notes

fadedtoblue · 7 years

Note

I'd normally just message you about this, but I think it'd make some good meta. What do you think when folks say "Matt belongs with Karen and Daredevil with Elektra" ?

Sorry it took me so long to finish this, as you know with me…I ALWAYS HAVE A LOT OF THOUGHTS. I appreciate the question though and I enjoy the chance to think about this concept more deeply…I certainly made a lot of effort to make sure my reasoning felt logical? Disclaimer: this is going to focus more on DDS2 Elektra than post-TD Elektra because there’s a lot that isn’t entirely clear about where her characterization is meant to go from that storyline. I don’t want to muddy the waters up too much so I’m just drawing the line here now. I might write something separate regarding the end of The Defenders b/c I’m seeing some conversation popping up here and there around the motivations behind that ending but, yeah, not super relevant here. I also apologize in advance b/c I think I’m going to go off on a couple of meta tangents regarding both Karen and Elektra before I get back to addressing the crux of the concept so…bear with me!

Let’s start out by quoting some words from Mr. Cox himself, who was fairly consistent in falling back on some variation of this hypothesis in almost all the interviews I’ve read / watched with him during press for DDS2 – this quote isn’t quite exact to the question, but it’s close…I’m also sure there are better ones, but this was just the first one I had accessible:

With Karen, he’s Matt Murdock. He’s the kind of man he’s always wanted to be. She brings out of him a kindness and a generosity and a belief in law and order, and right and wrong. She taps into something that is the kind of person he’s always seen himself – the kind of person his father wanted him to be. But Karen doesn’t know about Daredevil, and that’s undeniably a huge part of his life.

With Elektra, it’s the opposite. She knows all about Daredevil. She accepts that, and encourages him in a way that no one else does. But she also sees a dark side, or she tries to draw out of him a disregard for law and order, a disregard for people and property, and those things which isn’t who he is.

On a super simplistic, superficial level, yeah – it makes sense. Karen and Elektra were already involved, in very different ways, with the two sides of Matt’s hyper-compartmentalized lifestyle. As a result, I understand why there’s this intrinsic pull to connect Karen with Matt’s ‘day’ life and Elektra with Matt’s ‘night’ life, and then draw the line from that to, “Matt loves Karen, Daredevil loves Elektra” and vice versa. I disagree, however, with the basic premise of Charlie’s statement / this kind of statement in general, mainly because while Karen and Elektra both make very useful props to further illustrate the trials and tribulations of one very confused and conflicted Matt Murdock, you can easily remove both of them from the equation and come to exactly the same answer: which is that Matt Murdock was already a kind, generous man, with a belief in law and order and right and wrong, coupled with an absolutely hypocritical flagrant disregard for law, order, people and property every time he runs out and pulls on that mask. If you look up the word denial in the dictionary, it might as well have Matt Murdock’s pretty face filling up the page. My point is…Karen didn’t make Matt better and Elektra didn’t make Matt worse. Matt was already the man he had chosen to be, and for some reason it seems easier to credit / blame either one of these women for his inherent character traits when in fact, this was the person he already was before either of them came into the picture.

Now, I think a better way to phrase this concept is that Karen is attracted to what Matt Murdock represents, and likewise, Elektra is attracted to Daredevil represents, and that is why Matt belongs with Karen / Daredevil belongs with Elektra. And to this I say….mmmm maybe, maybe not. Based on what we’ve been given so far on the show, one could argue that neither Karen or Elektra have yet had the opportunity to fully experience both sides of Matt Murdock and maybe neither of them ever will. But I think there is enough here to try to figure out whether the Karen –> Matt / Elektra –> DD line of thinking holds water, and whether either of them have a better shot of being the right fit for both sides.

Let’s tackle Karen first.

On paper, there’s a lot that should work between Karen and Matt. It’s sweet and innocent in a way that so many things aren’t in Daredevil’s world. They share a lot of similar qualities – real go-getters for truth and justice and light, stubborn and quite headstrong, but still caring and empathetic individuals. I can see why they get categorized as the nice / healthy / safe option. But the primary problem with all of that lies in the fact that the foundation of their apparent relationship might as well be built on sand – almost everything they think they know and love about the other are at best half-truths, at worse, straight up lies: Matt, a blind, super stand-up handsome attorney with a genuine heart for justice, lives quite the secret double life as Daredevil, crime fighting vigilante with a not-talked-about-enough rage problem, and Karen, sweet, strong, spunky secretary with a heart of gold, has a secret murder on her conscience and an as-yet-to-be-determined dark and tragic backstory that may completely turn our opinions of her on its head. My issue with this is less that they keep secrets – who doesn’t keep secrets in this universe? – but that the image they’ve built up of each other and have become attracted to are very incomplete versions of themselves, and thus renders their relationship sadly superficial in a way they weren’t even aware. Which means the ironic thing about them being the conventional, safe romantic option is that nothing about them is actually that conventional or healthy or safe at all. Their relationship can be summed up by them lying to each other and to themselves about almost…everything, which isn’t a judgement of either character, it’s simply facts.

Now to be fair, from a storytelling perspective, this doesn’t mean there isn’t some hope of salvaging a meaningful relationship even with the deceit (one could argue this is exactly what they managed to do with Matt and Elektra). It certainly wouldn’t be the first time a television show deploys that old trope: two people who thought they knew each other realize they didn’t actually know anything about each other, harshly re-examine everything they’ve built up about each other so they can knock it all down and start from the beginning, etc. But I think the show has laid some interesting track with Karen’s character development, and I question whether pursuing a romantic relationship with Matt would honor that development in a positive way. My interpretation is that Karen, despite her propensity to get herself into very questionable situations, doesn’t actually want the danger. Yes, she finds herself more often than not running toward it, and she has an incredible amount of empathy for those who do not operate fully in the light, but that doesn’t mean she enjoys being in these dark and dangerous situations. She doesn’t want to see people she cares about get hurt. She doesn’t want to see herself get hurt. I do think she accepts that danger is oftentimes an unavoidable part of the process toward uncovering the truth (something that she learned from Ben and I think a huge reason why she worked as hard as she did to get as far as she did with Frank) – that danger in service of that truth can be tolerable, sometimes even bearable to live with. I’m not sure the way Matt goes about it, however, is compatible with her newfound tendency toward self-preservation.

As poorly as the post-DDS2 revelations were handled in The Defenders, I can still appreciate the little character nuggets they did throw out at us to better flesh out Karen’s headspace and motivations. I know the way it played out frustrated a lot of people – it frustrated me too. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that her stance on Matt as DD was not really that far outside the realm of believability. She’s not an idiot or a wet blanket or whatever negative descriptor you want to throw in here. She’s someone who has gone through a shit ton of trauma and wants to feel like she has some control over her life. She wants to be doing something that gives her purpose and fuels her passion (which she has found, through investigative journalism). And here’s the kicker: she wants to survive long enough to do these things. I know, I know, she still gets herself into some pretty crazy situations but I think to her, these situations are worth it if they can fix the things about her that are broken? If they can right the wrongs that lurk in her past, and if they can give her life a sense of meaning and purpose. I just really and truly don’t know what a relationship with Matt would offer her except all of the danger without any of the personal payoff. To constantly wonder about his health and safety and what her proximity to him does for her own chances of survival. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that their relationship only gains positive momentum when there’s nothing else is happening to fuck shit up. But the second any sort of outside stressor gets thrown into the situation, it might as well be like throwing a grenade into their personal growth. And the big reason for the constant imploding of progress always boils down to Matt and his secret identity. Which is such a salient reminder to me that when Karen fell for Matt, she didn’t know about Daredevil and thus was never afforded the choice in whether she wanted to be involved in Daredevil’s shenanigans. Honestly, it’s also not like she knew him long enough or well enough to have him consider her in that part of his life anyway. But this only highlights to me just how damaging these lies and omissions have been and how confusing they are to untangle after the fact, especially in light of all she’s been through personally. This is why I don’t really blame Karen for being wary and self-protective post-identity reveal and why I have to wonder about what positives this could hold for her as a character other than to check off the canon love interest box for Matt Murdock*.

* A point that is interesting to me when compared to someone like Claire, who while not a comics canon relationship, was still meant to fill in that love interest role in DDS1. People have complained about her not getting her fair share of exploration as Matt’s love interest (a complaint I certainly shared back in S1) but regardless, once Claire had the information she needed to evaluate Matt and what this potentially could mean for the two of them, I think she made the very healthy choice to nope the hell out of there.

Karen may be “better” for Matt…but is Matt “better” for Karen?

And what about Elektra?

At first blush, Elektra represents every violent, id-driven impulse Matt Murdock tries to hide from the world and only chooses to unleash when he dons the Daredevil costume. Her introduction to Matt’s world is of a woman who exists as unfettered passion, of caution thrown to the wind, no thinking – just doing. It’s not surprising that this sort of encouragement leads to stolen cars, breaking and entering, damage of property, and almost-murder. Fast forward ten years later, and it seems that not much has initially changed, that present day Elektra still embodies so much of the young woman who first gave him the taste of pleasure through pain, and conveniently presents as an avatar for Matt’s darkest desires, the one who validates Daredevil’s actions and very existence. The fact that she comes to Matt looking specifically for Daredevil’s help, and ropes him into a crime-centered mission whilst unintentionally undermining the work that he does as Matt Murdock, lawyer, makes it easier to put Elektra in the “wants DD, not Matt Murdock” column. Some would probably take it farther and argue that nothing about Elektra is worth redeeming and that her influence should be kept away from Matt at all costs.

As with almost everything about Elektra, it’s not that simple of course!

I think the first step is looking past the bullshit storyline Elektra got saddled with regarding the Hand and the more superficial backlash toward her character because she had the balls to not only represent but encourage the other equally valid part of Matt’s life as Daredevil (and this can’t be said enough, but Elektra deserves ZERO culpability for Matt’s inability to balance and prioritize his own shit). When you do you’ll find there are quite a few fascinating insights into her character that develop over the course of DDS2, which may not serve to make her relationship with Matt any more “normal” or “healthy” (both terms that are laughable when used in relation to Matt Murdock anyway), but do provide a really crucial prism through which to examine what they could be together.

In my opinion, the thinking that Elektra is good for DD and not Matt is short sighted. Yes, she is an incredibly skilled fighter and appears to have a higher level of respect for Matt’s activities as Daredevil than she does for Matt’s work in law. But is this actually true? We know that Elektra likes to conveniently play up the femme fatale role, throwing in a bit of the enabler / bad influence for good measure. We also know she views the world with much more disdain than Matthew, and has a less stringent moral compass than…well, almost everyone. But as this wonderful post by @xtltokio highlights, at the heart of it (and I’m focusing on DDS2 here) Elektra is actually one of the good guys. And I quote:

Elektra was fighting a war, a bloody, messy and complicated war. But most of all she was fighting for the right side. In addition to being raise to be a Assassin, a weapon, she was also a soldier in a war she believed in. She hated and was terrified of turning a weapon to The Hand.

As a valued soldier in the Chaste army, Elektra is literally all about taking out the bad guys (yes, by killing them), rooting out evil and dispensing justice against the Hand. She’s just quite a bit more pragmatic about it than Matt. And it’s funny – we all know and acknowledge that Stick is an obnoxious asshole but no one ever questions whether he’s on the right side of the war while he’s cutting down ninjas left and right, do they? But I digress. Now, the flashback sequence in TD 1x07 in particular does a lot to put some of Elektra’s actions from 10 years ago into further context, especially this quote from Stick: “[Not killing] doesn’t make him good, Ellie…it just makes him weak.” What is it that makes Elektra’s moral code so much worse than Matt’s? That she has no hesitation in dispatching people she perceives to be her enemies so that she can keep the people on her side of the war safe? Is her sin that she sometimes enjoys the thrill of the kill (honestly, I still find this assessment to be a little questionable). And what does that say about Matt, who has a strict moral code about not killing, but most certainly derives a certain level of pleasure and willingness to embrace a lack of self-restraint when it comes to violently injuring his opponents?

When it comes down to it, Matt and Elektra are two people cut from the same cloth, coming of age in the wake of trauma and violence, trained by Stick to harness their anger into something deeper and darker and we know one of the only reasons Matt didn’t descend down to the same darkness was because his training was cut short. So we have to realize this is some absolutely crucial context to judge her character by. When we do, we know that for as much as Elektra exhibited unhealthy, and yes, sometimes toxic behaviors in her early relationship with Matt (though it was also in service of a mission and not necessarily indicative of what she would have done on her own), we also know that Matt changed a core part of her being, or if you don’t think it went that far, can at least admit he planted a seed of change within her. And the fact that this inherent goodness within her has been brought up so many times in show canon that I honestly don’t believe it’s incidental. I really believe that even in the wake of The Defenders, making sense of that potential goodness will be a core part of Elektra’s story should she reappear again in the future. And it is within this potential for light that I find possibilities for a successful Daredevil and Elektra pairing, and even more so in one for Matt and Elektra.

It’s funny to me when people say Elektra loves Daredevil and not Matt Murdock because she fell in love with Matt Murdock before Daredevil ever existed. She was the first one to know and embrace the duality in him. She also knows that Daredevil isn’t a separate part of Matt – Daredevil is Matt. Admittedly, it took him longer to understand the duality within Elektra, but for all of his self-righteousness, he never lost his belief in her. Even with the lies, they have never been anything other than themselves with each other. The way they viewed the world, their personalities, their abilities, everything was out there for each other to see and explore. The biggest thing Elektra hid from Matt was her work with the Chaste and relationship with Stick yet even that is the kind of lie that ultimately Matt would 100% understand because of own his history and familiarity with Stick and his causes. And I don’t think this can be said enough, but does anyone remember when Elektra actually develops as a character over the course of DDS2? Like how by 2x08 she has genuinely accepted Matt’s desire for the light, no strings attached? She is GLAD that she didn’t snuff out his darkness? And when Matt asks her to leave, she DOES. She is willing to walk out of his life because he believes they are corrupting each other and as hurt as she must have been in that moment, she does exactly what he asks of her. And remember how she is willing to be convinced by Matt that she doesn’t have to be a weapon for the Hand, and she makes the choice to fight on his side? And how she is absolutely frustrated with his desire to save the Hand hostages because she rightfully identifies it as a trap, but she knows how he is and she helps him anyway. Even Father Lanthom directly rebuts Matt’s statements at the beginning of Defenders, when Matt questions whether Elektra would be disappointed in him for abandoning Daredevil. Because he’s clearly heard enough about Elektra from Matt’s many visits to be able to piece together an image of this mysterious, damaged woman that isn’t just the coldhearted monster people seem to think she is, but the feeling woman who actually cares about Matt’s desires and wellbeing that exists underneath. It’s odd that all of these things seem so casually discarded in favor of highlighting Elektra’s darker tendencies, huh?

If you ask me, there seems to be quite more going for Elektra than initially meets the eye. I fall back on this Elodie on Elektra quote a lot, but I think it sums it up so nicely:

They seem to be very different, but maybe deep down, they are quite similar and that’s where their bond comes from. She comes across as being the bad girl and he comes across as being the good guy, but maybe they’re both somewhere in the middle. Maybe Matthew isn’t that good and maybe Elektra isn’t that bad. They complete each other.

So it all boils down to a few key factors for me.

Let me preface this conclusion by saying that I honestly don’t think Daredevil’s story, at least if they continue to follow the blueprint set up by his very long and robust comics history, includes any sort of Happily Ever After. The closest thing he’s got to any sort of safe and stable relationship is with Foggy and I do think in the end, Foggy will (probably) be the one left standing. But the question is whether there’s any truth / logic / weight in the concept of Matt belongs with Karen and DD belongs with Elektra. And ultimately, I say: no. I believe that just as Karen and Elektra both deserve someone who can fully appreciate them for who they are, Matt also deserves someone who can appreciate him for who he is, for both sides. If you were able to break Matt into two halves, then sure, each of these women would probably be more appropriately matched with one half over the other. But Matt isn’t two people. Matt is one. So if I have to consider which person would actually work best with Matt as Matt Murdock and Matt as Daredevil, Elektra will have the edge for me.

I don’t doubt that they’ll take Matt and Karen back down that road in S3 but as someone who may not ever love this character, but can still respect the changes they’ve done with her, I just can’t see how this is going to work without making Matt into a completely different person, or sacrificing a lot of the strides they’ve made with Karen’s characterization. They’ve done such a stellar job giving Karen stories that allow her to stand on her own, even when she stumbles and makes mistakes and forces me to curse under my breath for the umpteenth time. And it’s not that I feel like she doesn’t deserve to also have romance and softness and love, it’s just that based on all of the things we know about her, I’m not sure Matt can ever give her what she needs, or vice versa. Time and time again, Matt had demonstrated that Karen just isn’t that high of a priority in his life – given the choice between Elektra and Karen, 9 out of 10, he’s going with Elektra. And the sad thing is that I’m pretty sure there was absolutely zero active intent to abandon and belittle Karen, but his actions and his words were always in character, and the message was crystal clear. Sure, there are ways that Matt can certainly be a better person and friend and boyfriend, but there will be limits to that growth because Matt Murdock still has to be Matt Murdock. As long as Daredevil exists and Matt lives his life on the edge of some unpredictable danger, I think that’s just going to be one edge too much for Karen Page. I don’t think they’ll ever be able to eliminate that fundamental disconnect between the sweet Matt and Karen they hypothetically want to be based on the fronts they put on for each other – the one that seems so nice and healthy and safe – and the one that is reality, the frustrating and messy and confusing one where you acknowledge that maybe although they’re two people who have enough in common to be good friends and care deeply for one another, but the future just isn’t there, much like how it ended with Matt and Claire.

Most Mattelektra shippers will be the first to confess that this is no model relationship. We know it’s not healthy. We know it’s messed up. These two clearly have a bond that seems to defy reason or logic and sometimes, even sanity. But even so, at its core, their emotional connection is still rooted in a foundation of unconditional love, understanding, and belief in one another. It’s the sort of thing that leads them to give more to each other than they’d ever been able to give to other people. And because they know each other just that well, and believe in one another to such a degree, they are willing to run headlong into danger and death for it. This bond hasn’t always been used in the best way, nor have they ever had the chance truly be their best within it (I would say that Elektra’s death in DDS2 cut that potential tragically short for now), but I do think this quality gives them a very unique potential to bring out more from each other and to eventually become the best possible people they could be, within the context of their existing flaws and shortcomings. I think it’s more realistic (within the world of the show) to see Matt change himself enough to be a better partner for Elektra without sacrificing the things that make him who he is. And in turn, I can see a similar trajectory for Elektra, where she can also figure herself out and find a purpose for her life with a freedom that she was never afforded before, but also have someone who is supporting her and encouraging her along the way (mostly) without judging her.

*goes back to see what the ask was about* SO YEAH. Does this answer your question? Who the hell even knows.

But now you get to read my very long thoughts and you (and anyone else) can feel free to tell me what you think…I’m even open to some respectful discourse and disagreement as long as it doesn’t devolve into trashing my ship. I know I’m not as emotionally invested in Karen’s journey so maybe my reading on her is off…if I am, I’d love to hear some other takes. I’m just glad I’m done writing this thing :D.

#mattelektra #matt murdock #elektra natchios #karen page #matt x karen #matt x elektra #marvel's daredevil #daredevil meta #thegunlady #asks #answers #meta #my thoughts #text #lots of text #p talks about stuff #like i said #i tried to be somewhat objective even though my bias is obvious and i know i wasn't entirely successful #open to respectful replies / discourse :)

78 notes · View notes