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muninnhuginn · 1 year

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Li Tianchen and Li Tianxi timeline

This is my attempt to piece together what I think the most likely chain of events is regarding the twins from the evidence we have as of season two episode nine.

X years prior to present day

Li Tianchen meets Liu Xiao at the fountain. Liu Xiao says that you have to really gun for what you want. He speaks of how the world is a "jungle" and only a few can evolve and become "hunters", else they must be prey. Li Tianchen internalises this.

Seven years prior to present day

Li Tianchen and Li Tianxi live with their parents. Their father (Li Fan) hears rumours of their mother (Liu Lan) cheating on him (rumours which their neighbour stoked - he's one of the rumour birds in ep 9) and uses it as an excuse to physically abuse her and threaten them all with a hammer when they try to help her. Li Tianchen and Li Tianxi flee to the other room. At this point, Li Tianchen and Li Tianxi are touching each other (but not Liu Lan) and Li Tianxi is clutching the photograph taken earlier that day. It appears as though Liu Lan (possessed) takes the hammer and approaches Li Fan but we don't get to see the full scene before CXS is thrown out of the dive and there is no knife involved at this stage. When we return, Liu Lan is dead by knife and Li Fan by hammer. Li Tianchen later claims to Qian Jin that he killed both of them. However, we haven't seen what actually happened and Tianxi's later retelling has a flashback of Liu Lan apologising to her which must happen sometime in the blanked out scene.

The twins meets Qian Jin at the site of the crime scene, who takes them both on board and modifies the police files relating to their case. The twins have their police files erased and vanish and Qian Jin quits the force.

Y months prior to the current day

We next see Tianchen and Qian Jin at a meeting with Liu Min. This appears to be several years later as Tianchen seems much older. Liu Min says Qian Jin has already helped "resolve matters with that woman" (I do think he literally means in a lawyerly way in retrospect rather than a murdery way, especially when QJ's first response to him asking to take care of the online attacks is to say "I'll send them letters".). As Liu Min has use of his legs at this point, this places this scene at prior to season one episode one and so months before season two.

Liu Min is asking QJ and Tianchen to target his "haters", that is, those who talk badly of him or spread rumours about him online, and his first target is Tianchen's former neighbour. It seems that the neighbour hasn't changed his rumour-spreading ways. Tianchen laughs.

Chronologically alongside and after season one episode one

Liu Min tries to threaten Emma after the games company news breaks and his embezzled money is at risk. It gets out of hand and he ends up with a crashed car and paralysed legs. Emma heads to the bridge, intending to commit suicide, but is stopped by Cheng Xiaoshi. Emma is then possessed via photo by one of the twins and leaps to her death, Cheng Xiaoshi as the only "witness". (The story currently wants us to place this as Li Tianchen doing the possessing and given red eyes speaks this does make most sense but I'm keeping my options open. Tianchen's powers at least include touch possession though and we saw him receive Chen Bin's photo not long before his potential possession.)

End of season one/start of season two

Possessed Liu Min abducts Xu Shanshan and is invited to CXS's "game" the next day. When they show at the photo shop they're trapped in the developing room where they mention that they were "only an agent" (because they were carrying out the killings on behalf of someone else?) and that they would never kill "innocents". Once CXS reveals this was all a trap to get a confession, red eyes then retreats from Liu Min. Liu Min is taken into police custody.

Later that day, when CXS jumps back to try and save Emma, Qiao Ling is possessed and stabs Lu Guang. When CXS returns, possessed QL claims that CXS "cheated" in their game and lets slip that CXS's powers "also" involve photos, with the "also" having heavy implications.

Liu Min is possessed again and made to commit suicide. It's unclear in which order Lu Guang's stabbing and Liu Min's "suicide" happen and whether they occur simultaneously or not.

Happening chronologically alongside season two episode two

Qian Jin retrieves a photo of Chen Bin and passes it on to Li Tianchen.

Chen Bin is (potentially) possessed, confiscates Liu Min's phone and passes it off to Xiao Ma (Qian Jin's lackey). He then falls from top of the hospital building. (Note: Tianxi's telling of her backstory shows a shot of Chen Bin apologising and crying. It could technically have taken place at any time, but it makes most sense it fits here)

One of the twins at the staircase asks Xiao Ma for Liu Min's phone. They don't speak and even though at a glance the fringe seems to resemble Li Tianchen's it seems to make more sense at this stage for this to be Li Tianxi. This occurs chronologically before the scene in the next paragraph as Xiao Ma is confronting CXS and QL when LG tries to leave his hospital room and is arrested immediately following the confrontation.

Lu Guang tries to leave the room and receives a photo from what appears to be Li Tianxi. This has a photo of Liu Lan and Li Tianxi on the front and the back says about not wanting to lose a good brother, with a childish doodle next to it. The Tianxi delivering the photo wears a blue jacket and a mask which appears to match with the twin on the staircase.

Season two episode four

A few days appear to have passed since episode two as Chen Bin's funeral has now taken place.

Qian Jin speaks to Xiao Ma and realises that one of the twins took Liu Min's phone. (He updates Liu Jing on this after the funeral though he may have known of it before). Given Tianchen and Qian Jin appear to still be in cahoots as of s2e9, this points to it being Li Tianxi who intercepted the phone.

"Li Tianxi" phones Qian Jin. QJ asks "have you found him?" (I'm using Funi subs here so can't confirm but about 90% sure it was translated like this because the Chinese subs used 'ta' (他) which does mean 'he' but sounds identical to 'ta' (她) which means 'she'. In other words, it could just as easily be "have you found her?" and the og subs used the male 'ta' for ambiguity) Qian Jin comments that this (plan) is "pretty risky" but so long as it's carried out before the police realise it should work. Most likely this is Li Tianchen disguised as Li Tianxi soon to walk straight into a police station. This Tianxi is wearing the pink hoodie as far as I can tell.

This all implies that Li Tianxi is "missing" already and when this is put together with the hospital scenes in episode two, she likely went awol back then or not long after. Li Tianxi fled wearing a school uniform rather than the hoodie of the hospital scenes and it is in this that she is later found.

Qian Jin and Li Tianchen discuss the specifics of Li Tianchen's escape from the police station beforehand. Qian Jin lays out all the instructions of the plan so Tianchen just has to follow them and retrieve CXS.

"Li Tianxi" shows up at the police station and asks for CXS.

Season two episodes six to eight

Tianchen-as-Tianxi uses CXS's sympathies to get him to touch him whereupon he possesses him. He then also possesses Wang Juan and together they leave the police station. Tianchen makes it to the docks but isn't able to take CXS. Instead, LG is taken himself.

Miscellaneous notes

Clothing-wise, in s2, we appear to have Li Tianxi wearing a blue hoodie and a mask at first during the hospital scenes and then later a school uniform when she decides to flee. This is copying Li Tianchen's outfit in the meeting with Liu Min (and his general colour scheme prior to that).

Li Tianchen wears a pink hoodie and when disguised as Li Tianxi he also adds a mask and wig.

In both cases I suspect the mask is used to obscure their identity. Tianxi retrieved the phone as Tianchen and Tianchen infiltrated the police station as Tianxi.

Whilst this layout of events places Liu Min's phone with Tianxi, at the time she is taken into police custody she no longer appears to have it. It may be hidden somewhere important to her or in the place she was found.

I can't place exactly when Li Tianchen meets Liu Xiao again, but am reasonably sure the chronology in the episode is accurate here and it's before LTC meets Liu Min for the first time. Liu Xiao said that LTC would have opportunities to "hunt" in the near future and there Liu Min was. Also, we know that Liu Xiao was studying abroad around the time of the present timeline so it has to have occurred before then (from the 'will we meet again' and 'it's almost time' I'm tempted to say this scene is just before LX leaves for abroad honestly).

Also, LX says the difference between a 'hunter' and a 'beast' is that a hunter hunts even when not hungry - this is where the scales get tipped from self-defence to actively killing - it's an important mental shift for LTC.

#some of this is repeated from my other posts but I just wanted to put it all in one place #I put Chen Bin's possession as 'potential' because he has a history of leaking info from the police if he thinks there's good cause #and because we still need to see the 'sorry' scene which probably fits in the gap before he dies #I've tried to stay on topic and not go on tangents about powers etc but tianchen we know for sure has touch powers #we don't see him use photos but we know emma has to have been possessed via photo and red eyes emma spoke (tianxi is still mute)#so either tianchen also has photo powers or if it's tianxi with those powers he's using his powers to use hers #tianxi had the photo when we cut to black after all. but also idk about her memory of liu lan apologising during that scene #link click #shiguang daili ren #link click spoilers #shiguang daili ren spoilers #long post #seen some people also point out that in tianxi's telling tianchen is always patting/touching her whilst she's asleep #which seems cute but if it's how he accesses her power it suddenly becomes vaguely horrifying instead

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randomnameless · 5 months

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Localization discourse has cropped up again on Twitter, and someone posted a few before and after screenshots of an Echoes mod that retranslates the game to be more faithful to the original JP script, with that same person claiming that all the mod does is remove all the personality and charm 8-4 added to the dialogue; for reference, here's the lines they're referring to:

Lukas (EN): But just once, i should like to be red with rage, green with envy... Something!

Lukas (JP): But still, i've never been caught up enough to lose control of myself...

Clair (EN): Do i not deserve better than these trite gambits of yours?

Clair (JP): That kind of behavior is very hurtful towards the one it is directed at.

Clair (EN): If that crass phrase means you wish to speak with me, then please proceed.

Clair (JP): Oh, Dyute. What is it?

I can somewhat get why people could see the first change as just being a less interesting way of getting across Lukas' lines about struggling with not feeling enough emotions (though even then i'd argue that changing the lines from him being dejected and resigned at his emotional struggles to him being actively angry about them is a decently big change to his character and not just "oh they worded it in a more interesting way"), but i really don't get how people can argue that Clair's localized lines aren't blatantly rewriting her character; her criticism of Gray being changed from "your behavior hurts people and you should stop because of that" to "your behavior hurts me and you should stop because i'm your superior and deserve better than to be toyed with by the likes of you", along with her greeting to Delthea being changed from "oh hi, what's the matter?" to "if that gross phrase means you want to talk to me, then i suppose i can grant you the privilege of a conversation" doesn't make the dialogue any wittier, it's just making Clair into more of a spoiled brat than she was intended to be originally.

You ruined my day with this :(

(i know this is an old ask, but I forgot it in my drafts!)

I thought FE15's localisation was nice, but granted, I didn't have access to the JP script (nor JP audio!), but now I wonder if the schtick "nobles vs commoners" wasn't overplayed in the lolcalised version, which in turn, would kind of explain why some people felt cheated by Alm's reveal -

Even if I always took it as "being a noble has nothing to do with birth" didn't meant Tobin as a peasant could become a noble and have a noble heart, but meant that even if you are born a noble with super special powers or not, being a noble character only falls on you, and the actions you take : Alm rescues random women (FE15 for you!) around at the cost of his mission/safety/etc, when Berkut, who is noble-born just like Alm, hunts peasants and burns his fiancée.

8-4 adding more "Nobles BaD" feels in touch with what ultimately happened with Fodlan, even if while the FE series already tried to dip its toes in this water with Ike, his "nobles BaD" ultimately amounted to childish tantrum and refusal to deal with "complicated things" when you realise and learn what kind of people he's working with, and their responsabilities.

In a way, I can understand the people being annoyed that the mod removed the "additions" brought by 8-4 if they really made the characters more memorable - but my stance will always be to be able to choose if you want to put parmesan on your pasta or not.

8-4!Clair is a spoiled and snob brat - but can't we get the choice to get a Clair without parmesan?

You know what, I'm thinking FEH's decision (in 2017!) to, uh, not include dual audio was due to the supposed limitations of the app, but imo, was also amde with the dubbing/US!VA industry in mind because, imagine the players from FE14-FE15 having characters who, by tone alone, are different from the ones they're used to, what kind of message would that send to players? You've played the parmesan!version of those games?

And to be clear, I like my pasta carbonara with heavy cream because I'm french and cream is life.

And yet, IDK, maybe that's just me, but I think I'd feel a bit out of the loop if I was thrown in game that celebrates a franchise I never played, since the games I played were... heavily "localised" to catter to my tastes and overplayed issues that weren't there because I'd maybe like this theme more than what was initially presented.

Cultural differences are a thing, but Crayon Shin-Chan is meant to be watched, in japan, by children in primary school.

OD's Crayon Shin Chan is basically japanese!Family Guy.

We had the "same" heavily lolcalisation back in the days here, with French!City Hunter ("Nicky Larson") and French!Hokuto no Ken ("Ken le Survivant"), and while in the 80s-90s some people still harped that those were the "real deal", with time it became more and more widely accepted that Nicky Larson and Ken le Survivant were... products that were lolcalised to fit with the regulations of that time (no blood for children! no swear words - when the regular french person says "merde" at least 10 times per day) - but if you were to go and interview the authors of those mangas, they wouldn't have a clue about what you're talking about with your french "dessins animés".

(granted, I've heard that recently, during a convention, both the author of City Hunter and Hokuto no Ken were surprised but pleased that even if it was lolcalised to oblivion, their work was so appreciated here!)

With modern FE though, I feel like FEH has to pretend that Nicky Larson and Ryo Saeba from City Hunter are the same person - so they will put Ryo in a fridge and call Nicky Larson "Ryo Saeba".

I mean, that's what we got with Halloween!Rhage - who roars using her special, and yet winks in her artwork because the artwork was commissioned by the people who designed/came up with Rhea, not with Rhage - and here, with your examples, with Clair.

Clair is a young noble lady, who as you pointed out with those lines, is a well mannered noble who doesn't hurt nor is looking down on people from lower birth, eons away from the "oujou who only means well" trope we ended up with with 8-4.

At the end of the day, people are free to enjoy whatever they want, let it be 8-4!Clair of Jp!Clair - but I'll have the same opinion as I always did regarding localisation : was it really up to 8-4 to change her characterisation this way? Are they still localising or swapping Jp!Clair with a brand new character of their creation?

If so, can this still be called localisation?

#sealofreconciliation #lolcalisation issues #I get that it's a very complicated work and it's easy to criticise behind your computer #and yet there's no reprieve from people who lived in the 2000s #Sure the anime expended on it because anime is different from the manga #but Katsuya Jonouichi was changed from Joey Wheeler from Brooklyn #Japanifornia is a term that was coined up by all this need to lolcalise even when it doesn't make sense #Localising isn't as easy as putting words in google translate #and yet I think 8-4 inserting their character in FE15 is not localisation #that's what we got with Fates and the differences between characterisation in the JP and US versions #it happened to a lesser degree with FE Fodlan #but there's still this discrepency between the og source material aka H!Rhea winking and throwing cookies #and Leigh's Rhage lines to go with that image #maybe as a non US person all this US localisation pisses me more #because the french localisation is either loltastic or at times and recently closer to the jp script which leaves me with more 4kids feels #sure you can always have the argument that if you can't understand the source material you have to use a proxy #but hey your proxy isn't even my native language so why should I use yours if something else is available?#even if what is available is crap and yet still manages to make me understand that your proxy isn't only a proxy but basically your takes #and your inserts in what the game isn't originally saying?#tbh I called out Rhage before the Halloween!alt especially with her lines about Willy in Tru Piss #Sure I couldn't understand a crap that was being said but by tone alone? the Rhea I couldn't understand felt like a very different characte #compared to Rhage #then friends translated the lines and I read that TV Tropes thing and found out Leigh's interview where she says #Pat told her to act in a certain way #and the rest is history #what is good localisation from what is lolcalisation always depends imo on what you want #and yet i think after a certain era people are more critical of what they consume #especially since the internet existing means people can check the og script and find out what was modified #sometimes it sucks and you have a dude writing 10k words about toxic masculinity because he didn't understood what 'boku' meant #and yet sometimes you have people finding out the lolcalisation turned someone saying Church GooD in Church BaD for no reason

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