#but a lot of it is subtextual and i dont know how well it comes across

[quinn-pop]

let’s do some autistic meta knight headcanons!! over explaining my interpretation of meta knight yet again wooooo

this orb has NO idea how to talk to people!!! outside of work anyway. a lot of this is partially due to upbringing (suppressing his emotions all the time) but he does not know how to express emotions, like…at all.

this goes into a few things

1. yeah talking is hard. even after figuring out what he wants to communicate he will struggle. conversation can be so overwhelming, especially under pressure. he will need time lol

2. because of that, forming connections is hard. i really don’t think meta is much for shallow relationships, and certainly not early in the timeline. which also means he has very little experience with friendship. so a lot of the relationships he did have went kinda neglected, and issues that probably could’ve been worked on by talking became…*cough romk* escalated.

3. honestly i wouldn’t be surprised if meta convinced himself he couldn’t feel emotion (anymore) until like. katam-ish. he tried very hard lol

vulnerability is terrifying. (though this gesture here is also just comforting, like his little cape cocoon thing he does.)

unmasking—yeah im taking the mask thing very literally here—is a big deal and a very slow process for mk. i’m sure he has a lot of feelings on that lol. it served as a way to ensure no one could ever, y’know, see him.

i can’t say i think he’d ever fully ditch it—there’s always gonna be some days that are more stressful than others and if having it could help him get through it, it just makes sense. mainly when working.

it really is about vulnerability. granted, i don’t think he has the most expressive face (in my head every astral just tends to stare at things) but i doubt he has much control over it. can’t fake a smile but also can’t hide it. probably blushes easy because yeah, astrals; just look at kirby’s face.

just the idea that someone might be able to read his expression and know what he’s feeling before he’s ready for them to (or even understands it himself…) yeah he doesn’t want that

but emotional turmoil aside, i think his mask also hides a lot of his stims

remember that whole “suppressing your feelings” thing? yeah turns out that ignoring half your instincts isn’t a good idea. so in true meta knight style, he tries to stim as subtly as possible

1. he has the least control over his wings, so they will flick and twitch on their own. they’re usually a good indicator of how he’s feeling, not unlike the body language usually seen in cat ears and tails lol. flapping is also an extension of this of course, though he probably suppresses it more.

2. this also effects when he takes his wings out. pretty much every time he’s excited or nervous it just happens. kinda makes me wonder if his wing cape ordeal might also go into the suppression thing… (i’d say yes, but using a cape is also very comforting so it’s not necessarily a bad thing)

3. going back to the mask thing; he stims a lot underneath it. think like biting or pursing your lips. he bites his tongue and clicks his mouth. that sort of thing. his mask also makes it harder to notice that he is constantly sighing, humming, grumbling…all that

one nice thing about the mask though is that it helps a little bit with lights!!! woo

(look at him and his magically floating glasses)

sensory stuff—i think he’s mostly bothered by light and sound. maybe a bit of texture. he’s pretty sensory avoidant and perfectly happy standing off to the side not touching anything.

the one exception to this is physical affection, which is, despite all of this, most of how he shows affection. it’s a lot easier to hug someone than to try to explain your feelings for them, after all.

i think he would like pressure though. so that’s probably part of it. and i’m pretty sure there’s some connection in here to fighting (dang, is that the only way he knows how to get his energy out?)

anyway, pretty much all of this is in contrast to kirby, who i would gladly nominate as the champion of Doing Whatever He Wants. he might pick up a few bad habits, but he will never mask the way meta knight does. he might not understand how he feels, but he’s in tune enough to express it…usually.

this is a very good thing for meta because it helps him to do the same thing. kirby’s so energetic, it’s hard to not want to stim with him. it reminds meta to be kinder to himself and explore his own emotions. he can also help kirby understand themselves, so this connection is very important.

yeah, at the end of the day, everything kinda just boils down to kirby and mk as parallels

this is the conclusion i promise

to me, meta’s arc is about growing stronger by growing kinder, and this is mostly by learning to be kind to himself. letting himself be a person again, loving and understanding other people, and eventually, letting go of all the expectations placed on him and doing the things he’s always wanted to do…

autism headcanons are fun for me because it’s cathartic to write, but at the same time, it just makes sense in this sort of narrative. meta is, to me, inseparable from these things. and so is kirby! that’s a dynamic that’s a lot of fun to play with, and it’s at the heart of my kirby interpretation.

if you actually read all this WOW thank you

[raisinchallah]

you can really tell hannibal came from the brain of a person raised in subtextual censored tv show queerness and also insane fanfiction. i know a lot of people think the network is responsable for hannigram never kissing or anything but i genuinely think fuller never intended them to kiss. and i don't mind it at all. like, i was never a big fan back in the day bc i thought the writing was never strong enough to justify how pretentious the whole thing was. but nowadays i feel like that's pretty much what hannibal himself is. he thinks he is so much deeper and interesting than he actually is. so it kinda fits. also caroline dhavernas was really hot. good for her.

yeah and well he also got his first writers room gig working on star trek voyager so you know how someone turns out a lil insane in that situation but yeah i really dont think it was censored or like would have been better if it was somehow more explicit but i do also think like dsfajkla;dj when ur dealing with stuff as loaded as like gay serial killers gaslighting people and playing with well equating gay desire for a latent desire to kill i actually think it was the wise choice and actually more interesting choice to leave it intentionally obfuscated and also again saved us from the glaad congratulating hannibal lector on coming out as bisexual but also the show is frankly so like ridiculous and over the top it also just suits the mood and tone to just not state anything completely outright and fits the vibe of barely subtextual deranged gay vampire fiction its also clearly lifting from

[animalinvestigator]

im sorry i woke up from a bizarre digimon dream and i was gonna ask for ur opinion on how tamers handled renamon's character but you should get any important stuff on yoru plate out of the way first. ok cool

Hello i have a lot of scattered thoughts on this. dub renamon and sub renamon are very different though, so please know this comes from the perspective of someone who has only been through the show all the way on the sub. my thoughts on dub renamon are, i don't like how they made her a femme fatale when literally none of that is in the original. i dont like how she is constantly quipping and i don't like how she is like I am a woman .But i am awesome. it feels very annoying, very reductive and gets rid of all the things i thought made renamon charming in the original. but thats enough about that.

Renamon as a character is pretty one note and i think shes handled pretty well as far as that goes. having a digimon that is essentially a stoic, mechanical protector of women is fun. it never changes about her that she is single-minded & unexpressive but also earnestly insightful and caring (even if only out of obligation & for self serving reasons at first) beneath a cold exterior , and i think it always works. She's charming & a fun straight man for the two goofier digimon that comprise the rest of the main cast. i think her characterization is really consistent and shes cute and a lot of fun. BUT its not as simple as that because shes like, only one half of a diptych really, in tamers and in digimon broader, the relationship between a digimon and their tamer has its own self contained narrative arc, and thats where things get stupid with renamon & why i kind of hated ruki for like, the first 25 episodes of the show, Because it is not always good.

It is established that digimon tamers was kind of written as they went along and you can tell with ruki and renamon. The amount of times they double back and have the exact same character conflict (Where ruki and renamon fight over being unable to get what they want out of the other party) over nad over again is like mind numbing. by the third time you just chekc the fuck out youre like OK RUKI THIS IS THE PART WHERE YOU LEARN THAT YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR DIGIMON NOW!!!!!!!!!!! and because renamon is stoic and stubbornly affixed to her purpose as a weapon and getting stronger theres no movement on her end either. The two characters stay static in this illusory semi-developing state for like the entire first arc and its terrible, it was my least favorite things about tamers first arc, i was literlaly like. Ok when is renamon gonna wise up and just get really fucking mad at ruki. and it never happened. Once the writers finally decide they're done teachign ruki for the third or fourth time that renamon is a living being and not a weapon and that they have to genuinely trust eachother to get stronger then i think their character arc gets way more interesting but it leaves such a sour impression of ruki in general. Most importantly its obnoxious to sit through. When i look back on it thoguh i actualyl kind of like it, but i hated watching it.

the funnnnn part of renamon &rukis arc comes once that hurdle is crossed and then their partnership crosses the line from like I only dubiously view you as autonomous into like, full blown tortured codependency. and that is so interesting to me that it retrospectively makes the part of the show where neither of htem can decide if they think the other one is really alive or not make sense. Its like the second ruki decides renamon has a soul they become completely enmeshed to the extent that their biomerge evolution is literally kicked off by what appears to be a double suicide. Its fascinating. They like communicate to eachother in a language shared by only them and are literally never separated from eachother and rukis like the only time i relaly feel peaceful and happy is when im piloting renamon like a mecha. Its kind of subtextual in the show itself because their narrative arc kind of falls to the wayside as takato&guilmon jian&terriermon juri and impmon are prioritized, but i feel like the extent of this is really emphasized in message in the packet, wherein its revealed that ruki has basically gotten like 20x worse as a person since renamon left and now feels like an empty shell without purpose, pathetically whispers into the void that she always saw renamon as the big sister she never had, & how she doesnt know who she is going to be and how she si going to live now. i am fascinated with this and honestly i did not like ruki at all until i looked at it through the lens that this provides. But when you do notice this and you think back to the show its self, its like, oh you guys REALYL were killing yourselvs for eachother, and now are both left tortured and alone in one anothers absence. And its great. i love this kind of character dynamic, i think its really distinct from the ohter ones in the show, and its kind of emotionally agonizing and pathetic in a way that i think is fun and interesting to explore. i think about it a lot, probably more than i think about the relationships between either of the main cast digimon&tamer pairs, so credit is due there.

In short i like renamon, she is consistent and always fun, her relationship with ruki is endlessly fascinating to me, i hate the first half of the arc, but the second half and the message in the packet epilogue retrospectively make it really resonant to me. Sorry for the fucking length of this reply my god. Thanks for the ask. Heres my picture of ruki hugging a 700 dollar renamon plushie she ordered in the mail after renamon got returned to the digital world and crying, from the stories in my brain. Hope this was enlightening

[anchoviesinthenightsky]

What’re your thoughts on the impact Luca has had for the queer community and for MLMs alike?

Starting off with some heavy hitting questions today huh? /joking

I really appreciate that I'm a person's whose opinion/ thoughts you'd value enough to ask this kind of question.

I have a couple different thoughts, but let me lay out a framework first so you can see where I’m coming from.

Firstly, I’m not a MLM nor am I in the MLM community, so I don't want to speak to their experience or their thoughts, because I’m not intimately familiar with them.

Secondly, I’m coming at this from an American perspective, meaning that I currently (and for better part of the last 5-8 years) have had a lot of access to television and movies that contain queer characters and/or center queerness itself. I think this conversation about Luca (which is Disney meaning that it’s going to be widely available/ made for an international audience to some degree) and its impact might look very different in a place where there is less queer representation in media. But, I can’t speak to that, so I’ll leave that part of the conversation for someone else.

Okay, the framework is set. Let’s get into this.

When talking about the impact that a story has on a community, often times we’re often talking about a few different things, like: what does this representation do for the queer community? Is there an issue that’s given more attention?

I find that queer stories that leave a larger cultural impact often do one of the following things (and ideally more than one):

represent of queer voices/ queer stories in the story

cast queer people to play a character and incorporate that queerness into the characters

educate about queer issues or identities to the audience

advocate / spread awareness about queer issues

normalize queer topics/ lessen the taboo of them

In an earlier draft of this post, I went on to talk about the show The Golden Girls, and how it did a lot of these things during the 1980s-early 1990s, when most other shows were not doing it. That discussion got kind of long, so I'm cutting it out (but if you want to example let me know).

But the point I'm trying to make is that-- stories that have a positive, long lasting, and significant impact for the queer community in the broader culture, require queerness to be written explicitly into the story. It’s hard to advocate, educate, or humanize a community that you refuse to name.

Luca doesn’t have explicitly queer characters. (We read them as queer, but they aren’t explicitly queer. A good comparison might be The Mitchells vs. The Machines, where being queer isn’t a huge part of Katie’s story, but she’s wearing a pride pin the entire time and is shown to have a crush on a girl.)

I will give Luca some credit, because the movie does feature a voice actor who is bi and who uses they/he pronouns, which is wonderful! And I also wouldn't be surprised to learn if there were queer people in the writer's room and/or queer artists who worked on the film. But the story itself is not explicitly queer, so its impact on/for the queer community will always be limited by that.

But but I think a lot of us queer people often find ourselves looking for queerness in stories that don’t explicitly have it. We want to see ourselves represented in a variety of stories.

I think that’s part of why fandom spaces often end up being queer spaces. I forget the post, but there’s a lovely post by a fandom elder who talks about the way that we steal characters away and make them queer. We read the subtext and the nods, and we create the rest ourselves.

I think that it’s fair to say that fandom spaces are important to queer folks and to queer culture itself, because it’s a community where we can write the stories we want to see without having to worry about appeasing straight audiences (or straight higher ups, or straight networks, or homophobic countries who’s markets we want to sell movies in). There’s just us, and the work we create.

And that legacy goes back incredibly far. It goes back to queer zines of Kirk/Spock Star Trek fanfic in the 1960s and 1970s, and likely far beyond that too. As long as there have been queer people, we've found ways to tell queer stories and to reimagine stories as queer.

I think Luca firmly sits in that tradition. And I think that the queerness we add to Luca in our fan-creations, has the same impact that fan work has always had on the queer community— that it allows us to see ourselves as nuanced, valuable, and loved

And in that way, I think Luca is important.

[matan4il]

You know the thing with Buck cheating. I didn't like it. Count me down as someone who was definitely grossed out by it. It actually made me sympathetic to Taylor and Buck needs to confess and he deserves whatever Taylor hands him.

However.. I ship Buddie. Buck didnt do anything to Eddie and I stand by the thought Buck would 200% never cheat on anyone really but especially Eddie. So I get kind of confused by the people trying to get the gotcha question directed at Buddie shippers. I haven't seen anyone be like well its ok because insert Olivet FF card here.

Hopefully we get to the meat of Buddie and Eddies breakdown soon. Hopefully this Taylor stuff is resolved by 5 13. I cant see how Buck actually lets her let her place go when its all built on lies.

At the end of the day I think thats really where some of this defensiveness from people in the fandom come from who are afraid there is a chance Buck and Eddie identify as anything other then straight. Because maybe I'm wrong and Buddie is never canon. But the one thing I know is S5 is definitely ending with both single and more bonded then ever before. And I dont even want to know how Buck will react if Eddie actually joins a different firehouse, how that effects his relationship with Bobby. Especially after he was blocked before too and all he wants is his partner back. It will be a good story but again my main point is I really do think there is a portion of the fandom that is just absolutely not OK with how close and semi codependent Buddie are to each other because honestly it's hard to imagine how you introduce a viable female LI that rivals the others place in their life.

You will never have a women who fights a tsunami for Chris and you will never have a women who Eddie will entrust with Chris. So how do you write a well received love story??

Hi Nonnie! I feel you, I didn't like the cheating either. And I honestly don't get what the gotcha angle would even be in this context? No, I'm with you, I don't think Buck would ever cheat on Eddie. Generally speaking, it's not who he is as a person, which is why a lot of misery AND alcohol had to be involved for him to do it to Taylor, and I don't think he feels for her anything near what he feels for Eddie.

And I'm with you, I hope it will be resolved soon, and before she actually moves in with Buck. For both their sake. I also really hope he owns up to his own unhappiness in the r/s.

TBH, if there are people who don't enjoy Buddie's close bond, that's their right. I think they're missing out, and that whether you see Buddie as platonic or subtextually romantic, their is a beautiful r/s, full of love, trust and mutual caring and healing, and without a doubt, it is so intense that no one else coming now, regardless of gender, can compete with what Buddie have, so I honestly don't know how people can dislike it. But at the end of the day, we're all here to find comfort. If for some people, that doesn't include Buddie and for others it does, that's okay. Just so long as we don't attack each other. We're all humans looking for a way through a difficult life. Kindness to each other is key.

Thank you for this and I hope you have a great day! xoxox

(HI! I've been juggling work overload and medical stuff, sorry I fell behind on answering asks despite trying to double my pace. I'll try to use the weekend to catch up, look out for my ask tag. xoxox)

[phoneybeatlemania]

I wonder if Paul knows lot of his fans here think his belly is super cute. Like most people here who like Paul love his squish. I think he's actuslly kinda insecure about it. Apparently he doesnt like talking about being overweight as a kid its a sore topic. And Linda said she often had to reassure him that she liked his stomach. You here about Johns body image struggles but I think Paul is a bit more quiet about his own issues

(CW: eating disorders)

Ive definitely heard a story about Paul being insecure about his stomach and his weight (c. 1969-70?) and Linda comforting him over it - I dont think ive ever seen evidence or a source for it though, so I dont know if its true or where it comes from? But I do get that sense about him too, in that he’s more rattled with insecurity (possibly about his physical appearance) then he’ll let on (whereas Johns the type who’ll often tell you upfront: “yes i despise everything about me. yes i think im the second coming of christ. yes we exist.”)

putting the rest of this post bellow the cut just because idk

Ill quickly note though that the difference with John is that theres a lot of evidence to suggest he was struggling with an actual eating disorder (EDNOS, to be specific) and I made some posts on it awhile ago (x) (x) (second one is less structured but the evidence is certainly stronger imo) - so if thats a topic that interests you, id suggest giving them a read!

Whereas with Paul, he might be insecure over his weight, but it’s not the same (as in, there isn’t any evidence - that im aware of - to suggest his eating habits have ever been symptomatic of an ED - although ill note that I don’t want to generalise ED’s as being a purely physical thing, since they are mental illnesses). I know you weren’t saying they were equally insecure over their weight or anything anon, just that Pauls issues could be under discussed by fans, and lesser discussed by Paul himself - I just wanted to point out the difference though in case anyone might be misguided here :)

And I think as well, there is something to be said about Paul being situated as this wholly confident guy (and John being wholly insecure) when theres interviews and extracts that strongly suggest otherwise. And largely that image is just constructed by Paul himself - because whether purposefully or not, he certainly comes off as confident and extroverted in most interviews. But at the same time, as Caitlin Moran says in the extract ive posted bellow, theres suggestions here and there, of a subtextual insecurity.

This is from an interview between Paul McCartney and Caitlin Moran, c. 2011 (i think?) and featured in the book Moranthology:

Paul then goes on to tell three stories that suggest - in marked contrast to the disconcerting, alpha…vibe he emits - that he is still insecure after all these years.

The first about how he only announces the first two dates of any tour, ‘to see how they sell,’ so that - when they sell out in six minutes…he can sigh and say, ‘Well, people do still want to see me, after all’…

The second is how he’s only recently started playing a lot of lead guitar, ‘Because the first time we ever played - pre-Beatles - I totally screwed up on the first night…’ I totally blew it - the nerves got the better of me. So I never played lead guitar again.’

‘Its taken you this long to get your nerve back?’ I ask incredulously. ‘Yeah,’ he replies…‘when The Beatles did Wembley for the first time, I remember sitting on the town hall feeling physically sick. I thought, “Ive got to give this up.”’ (pg. 317-18)

Theres nothing about insecurity pertaining to weight in that extract (so whoops on getting off track here) but it was just one that stood out to me recently, and so I wanted to post it - and additionally, I think we can infer something about the way in which Pauls insecurities might manifest in the language he uses.

[creampievampire]

Could you go into the difference between the subtext and queerbaiting in it, I'm still kind of -well it's obviously gay but nothing was really ever said or shown that says that expect for people talking about it- Like are the characters and their relationship just queer-coded (positivly ofc lol) but the baitiness comes from them sort of confirming it off the show?

of course! im assuming by ‘it’ you mean merlin, but rather than explaining the reasons why i think bbc merlin is a matter of subtext (or queer coding) and not queerbaiting, i think it would be easier and more productive to explain the difference between the two in general. they are very similar - which is why i think a lot of people are unable to tell the difference between them - but they have important differences

just a warning, this is going to be a LONG post lmao ive bolded exactly what each term means below, after which i go into more detail on the whole issue. this is something im passionate about so,,, ♥

queerbaiting specifically refers to a marketing technique in which creators hint at but dont actually depict a queer character or relationship. They do this in order to attract a queer audience with the suggestion of a character or relationship they can relate to, while also avoiding alienating their queerphobic audiences

queer coding is the subtextual coding of a character as queer through the use of things like metaphor, allegory, hinting, recognisable traits/stereotypes/experiences, etc. This is done to build believable characters and create more complex plot lines, and it is also regularly used by people who want to tell queer stories but are unable to do so explicitly. it CAN be used negatively to enforce damaging stereotypes, but that is just a small part of its usage

both of these things utilise subtext in order to work. subtext is not only a crucial part of the creation of any piece of media, but is impossible to avoid.

an example of the most basic types of subtext is when a character tells someone that everything is going to be okay, but you can tell they dont believe it. or when youre watching a story unfold and you suddenly connect the dots and realise whats going to happen before its explicitly stated - you used subtext and the hidden meanings and hints to figure it out!

the people involved w a piece of media create their story with a specific purpose or meaning in mind, and they construct the subtext of the story to reflect that purpose/meaning. HOWEVER, the viewers dont always see things the same!

your experiences and personality shape the way you view and interpret every piece of media you consume. if you hate cops youll see the insidious undertones in cop shows - if you grew up with an abusive parent youll see the biting implications in a characters dialogue that others find innocent - if youre queer you will search for and fine queer characters everywhere, regardless of the creators intentions

now, both queerbaiting and queer coding use subtext to function, right? so how do you know which is being used and whether or not its a bad thing? its all about intention

to give a specific explanation of the difference im going to use two examples that are (arguably) very similar in the way their queer characters became canon

example 1: adventure time featured the characters marceline and princess bubblegum, who have been forever depicted as a couple in fan content. their interactions in the show were read into and latched onto bc we saw ourselves in them and we saw it as positive queer rep. but their relationship was never explicitly discussed during the course of the show and was only confirmed at the end of the final episode.

that makes 10 seasons in which their relationship existed only in subtext, and when it did finally exist in canon it was only for a few minutes, if that.

example 2: supernatural featured the characters dean and castiel (lol) who have been depicted as a queer couple pretty much since the first episode cas appeared in. i personally hung on their every interaction, analysed every glance between them, bc i interpreted deans character as a parallel to my own childhood trauma.

cas joined the show in season 4, so that makes 11 seasons in which him being gay existed only in subtext, and when it was confirmed he was immediately cut out of the show. the exact nature of dean and castiels relationship still remains in subtext.

so why is it that adventure time is widely considered perfectly fine but supernatural is dunked on as being the poster boy for queerbaiting?

its bc adventure time involved queer creators and was an earnest representation of queer characters, but they were boxed in by their publisher, Cartoon Network and thus the only way for the relationship to exist in the show was through subtext.

supernatural, however, consistently neglected their queer character and employed transparent tropes and stereotypes - bringing him in just sparingly enough to keep queer audiences interested while never being gay enough to alienate their macho manly man queerphobe audiences. they would have dean and cas stare into each other eyes for a full 30 seconds and then almost immediately follow it up with an episode about dean banging a disposable female character.

so imho adventure time falls under queer subtext, and supernatural falls under queerbaiting

when it comes to a show like bbc merlin i see a lot of debate about whether or not its queer coding or queerbaiting, and my intention is not to convince you of either. merlin was very much a product of its time, and i have argued the same about seasons 4-6 of supernatural as well, before the queerbaiting escalated and became exhausting to me

the purpose of this post is to start giving you the information you need to analyse any piece of media and come to your OWN opinion as to whether or not its queerbaiting or whatever else

people will ALWAYS have differing opinions about this shit yall. i have debated so many times w so many people about where the line is and whats okay and what should be ‘cancelled’ and if consuming something deemed problematic makes you a bad person or not

and my conclusion?

if youre capable of acknowledging the flaws and issues w a piece of media without trying to defend it as a shining beacon of purity simply bc you like it, then you do you. enjoy whatever you want to enjoy - if i think its reprehensible i simply will never interact with you lol

at some point everyone has to stop regurgitating these generic woke speak cancel culture speeches and buzzwords and formulate their own opinions

my advice to anyone reading this is to learn how to do close reading (ill provide a link to a wonderful short guide on it in a reblog bc tumblr hates links) and start really considering where you draw the lines with all types of content. decide for yourself whether merlin or supernatural or adventure time crosses the line into content you cant stomach, but respect other people whose interpretations differ from yours

i know a HUGE amount of people think supernaturals confession scene was homophobic and toxic - a slap in the face - but when i watched it i saw myself reflected in dean. a repressed bisexual whose emotions had been stunted by lifelong trauma, who wasnt ready to face his feelings for cas but quickly realising that his chronic avoidance and fear was about to tear them apart possibly forever. to me it was tragic and beautiful, and i loved it

i also think merlin is a tragic and beautiful love story, and to me its a pivotal piece of queer media that changed the way i viewed love and made me believe that it was a possibility for me bc i related so deeply to arthur

i hope that you can draw a satisfying answer from this, anon, and i apologise for this post being a full essay lol but i believe it needed to be said  - i dont think there is a right or wrong answer here

[wearingmywings]

Destiel Meta - an outsider’s perspective

I’ve been reading meta for about a year, but now I wanted to add my own post regarding it.

I don’t really see things when I first watch episodes, I don’t get mirrors or parallels or pay attention to background details like wallpaper or neon signs or anything like that. I’m not good at analyzing things or interpreting it, not in literature nor film, I don’t do something in this area professionally or studied it. 

However, there are some things that jumped out so much that even I thought “Hey, that’s something!”.

Part 1: Mirrors

Seriously, mirrors? You’re telling me that it’s a known method to present mirrors to characters, that they can be used in subtle or totally obvious forms, and they can tell you a lot about the character that’s being mirrored just by existing? Wow that’s so cool!

14x300: In the first scenes when my friend yelled “Look! they look like Dean and Cas!”, I wasn’t 100% sure if that’s what was going on, but oh boi at the end of the episode it was crystal fucking clear. Three people next to each other, the one on the right taller than the others, one is wearing a jacket resembling a trench coat, one is wearing plaid. Trenchcoatjacket and Plaid are holding hands.

We noticed Plaid’s crush on Trenchcoatjacket the whole episode, it was so obvious! Hm, what else was there in resemblance? I remember the taller kid was pretty nerdy, and Plaid stole the Impala at one point, so it’s pretty clear we have Sam and Dean here, which leaves Cas for the last person, and it fits so well! Thats awesome!!

Apart from “Lebanon”, the episode ‘Mint Condition’ basically taught me how they use mirrors and that I should pay attention to them right now. They pointed out who was Sam and Dean, then resumed with the plot and I sat there thinking “Oh!”.

My friend explained to me how the ghost of that episode relates to John Winchester, and honestly if you follow the train of thought about mirrors that the episode presented to you, it’s pretty easy to get there.

Dreamhunter: The confirmed ship with two girls, ah yes! Again, I don‘t really pick up on visual cues or background stuff, but when Kaia said to Claire “I’ll go with you,” I had flashbacks to the season 11 finale immediately. I mean, using the exact same dilagoue? But alright, maybe they’re gonna keep playing it as a cute subtextual crush or how you call it, because neither of them says “You’re my crush”, so-

Oh, wait, Kaia was also stabbed in front of Claire who screamed “Noo!!”, that’s another striking resemblance. Hm.

Oh, Dreamhunter is confirmed to be a couple thing? Neat! So does that mean all the DeanCas stuff is romantic? Because y’all used the same dialogue and plot.

Part 2: Dean’s pining (season 11)

To be fully honest here, I didn’t understand season 11. At all. I didn’t get the whole Amara thing, why was everyone talking about pining? Dean told us that it wasn’t about desire with him and Amara, just a weird fixation, but still, the lady in the senior home told Dean that he “was pining for somebody else”. That makes no sense!

Unless it’s true? Dean didn’t pine for Amara, he tells us that, but everyone’s still talking about pining, therefore the topic of pining is important. Dean x Amara wasn’t romantic, that’s clear from what Dean told us and how he behaved, so no pining.

The only person left he could pine for is Cas. The dude who let in Lucifer, who Dean’s worried about, who Amara touches and she knows where Dean is? That’s..interesting. I’m still kinda confused, but some things are clearer now. No romance between Dean & Amara, but pining is still a theme, and only Cas makes sense. Got it.

Part 3: Cas’ endgame as being human

I wanted to include this because I’ve had this headcanon for years, then saw the meta community talk about it, and honestly there’s one scene to watch and it’d be clear that Cas wants to be human.

“We need grace-” “He can have mine”. 14x08

Alright dude, you’re so eager and ready to throw away your grace? Okidoki.

To go back in time, everyone always had these TED talks about how Cas loves humanity and loves humans and human things, that he feels stuff (season 4 yall, it’s been a while), that he compliments Hannah with things that “are human”. He doesn’t get along with other angels because they’re different than him, or they don’t understand his love and devotion for humans. He spends pretty much all his time on earth, around humans, because he loves them, and one in particular.

To quote Metatron, “He’s in love with humanity”. Do I need to add more? No? Fantastic, because this post is long enough already.

Part 4: Random things in no particular order

Episode 12x12, because come on. Some people took the gifs of Cas’ deathbed confession and connected them to the shots before, showing you where everyone’s standing, who Cas is looking at, and it’s so bloody clear. Don’t get me started on the singular vs plural “i love you” because I literally don’t have to, it’s right there.

“I could go with you”- season 11 finale. Cas, ready to die to accompany Dean on the suicide mission to save the world. He wants to ease Dean’s fear and be there for him until the very end, without hesitation. Castiel really fucking loves Dean Winchester. Wow.

That’s it I think? Those are the top things that jumped into my face when I watch the show, things I didn’t have to read other people’s thoughts on to understand what’s happening. :)

To finish this up I want to say something about meta writers. I didn’t start out reading meta, I didn’t really care for details and background stuff and took the show as I saw it, which is why I shipped Destiel immediately because there were enough things so blatantly obvious to me that I just had to. Then I found @tinkdw, then @bluestar86, @dotthings, @occamshipper, @postmodernmulticoloredcloak and all the other bloody amazing meta writers, and boom! A whole new world!

I started a series rewatch, read the posts for the episodes or seasons, paid more attention and there was so much to see and notice! It gave me joy in watching SPN in a time where I was kind of burned out because I had just discovered the bad side of the fandom and was a bit hopeless, for my OTP and the show itself. It gave me friends, and interesting conversations, but more importantly: These people helped me be realistic about episodes, upcoming episodes and PR stuff. “PR is not showrunning” was a strange concept to me before they showed me what it meant, and I vividly remember being in tears before all this after some PR material promised amazing things but failed to deliver.

These people are so good at predicting what’s going to happen because they read the fine print and understand it, pack it up and show it to us who either can’t read the fine print or dont notice it. They help fans to control (?) their expectations, to soften blind excitement over promo shots or interviews with people who have either no clue what they’re talking about (Jensen bby, i love you but what are you even saying?) or are purposefully exaggerating things.

They saved me from so much disappointment, they improved my fandom experience and changed my feelings for the show and how I watch it. There are so many interesting things to discover, things that confirm theories and explain plot points. I haven’t been disappointed in a new episode because of PR or rumors since I’ve met them, except ep 300 but that’s...a whole other thing. They were right about that too, though, and I didn’t listen. Catch me crying at four am because of it.

I love those people immensely, and I’m so thankful for them. They take the time to write all these essays about the show, all you have to do is read them.

A toast to meta writers! Consider this your personal love letter.

Kisses,

Jana

[allthatdivides]

Story Time motherfuckers, and this is going on here because I’m and angsty bean and I have no real friends (except you Gabe/@mykeithyboy cause you’re always that smol like “what about me” and I know you stalk my tumblr)

So there’s this fucking guy I like, right? And I’ve liked him since, like, seventh grade. We were good friends at school but I moved and now we email. I’ve liked other people and dated a girl over this time, but I still like this fucker. So now we email, right? Well, I’m pining for this guy, hard. I like him and I miss him and I just wish he’d fucking talk more and not about fucking Pokemon. Like in person it’s fine because a lot of our relationship was subtextual. It was flirtatious without being flirty one bit in the dialogue. We talked about Pokemon and video games and Game Theory and fucking Magic cards. BUT IT WAS FLIRTATIOUS. How I have no fucking clue. However, since we email now there’s no subtext because there’s just fucking text. Like he used to play with the charms on my bracelet and he’d screw with my hair and we diDNT FUCKING TALK ABOUT IT. And I just like,,, I want this fucker to pull a Camp Rock and come at me with an Introducing Me like fucking talk about yourself and tell me the little things that happen during your day like I want to talk to this fucker and not be like “Yeah this thing in pokemon.” “cool....... so hows life” “good” LIKE THATS NOT FUCKING CONVERSATION THAT'S FILLER THATS THE DIALOGUE I WRITE IN WHEN I JUST WANT TO GET THE THE COOLER NEXT SCENE LIKE I DONT FUCKING TALK TO PEOPLE EVER AND I KNOW THAT PLEASE JUST UGH

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk I’m annoying please ignore my ramblings

[fenharelxenansal]

ooc;;

so i went back into my discord history to dig up some meta i wrote a while back about briala. alice, nixe, mo, merc, and cay have all already read this, but i feel like a lot of it is really important to my characterization and i want it on my blog. maybe someday i’ll format it to read in a less disjointed, chat-style way, but for now -- have 1600+ words about briala’s backstory, i guess?

cw: lots of emotional abuse and gaslighting, lots of character death

im having a mood abt the tactics celene might have used to keep briala on her side when they were fighting and aaugh

bc i think a lot about the scene at the beginning of TME where bria is getting sexually harassed by a palace guard and the fact that nobody in that scene, briala included, acts like its anything particularly abnormal. that worries me

i mean. celene killed her damn parents. i dont think encouraging a guard to harass briala from time to time to make herself look like a saint in comparison is beyond her

and i have this mental image of briala being hurt in some way, nothing serious, a bruise here or there from someone other than celene, deliberately caused to send her running back to the empress who will make it all better

to give briala someone to hate instead of celene

to give celene the opportunity to 'make it up' to her

because i dont believe for a second that celene, grand player of the Game that she is, wouldn't stoop that low

she would do anything in her power to keep briala

because she is too dangerous, she knows too much

my headcanon is that when celene tried to send her away to live with the Dalish, it wasn't for her own protection

it was to keep her from ever realizing the truth of what happened the night her parents died, because it could destabilize celene's grip on power

and when Briala came back, well, she had to come up with another plan. and she cared for Briala enough that she didn't want to just kill her. so she made her into an intensely loyal asset

so i think any time Briala started to turn on her, started to want to leave her service even a little, she would do something to make herself look like the good guy again

the thing i always think about

Briala was supposed to be killed that night along with her parents

it wasn't 'all the servants except briala' it was 'all the servants'. the fact that she survived was pure luck, and the fact that celene didn't just have her killed after that point was because. well. Celene was a 16 year old lesbian about to ascend the throne of one of the most powerful countries in Thedas. One might imagine her a bit lonely.

im pretty sure she knew sending briala away was sending her to likely bandits or death by starvation

but she didn't have to feel so personally responsible for that

its easy to kill a palace full of servants whose names you dont know

theyre just numbers on a piece of parchment saying how many bodies you have to clean up

briala made herself real to celene and that makes her harder to kill

because she could have just killed her right then herself

but celene never had the stomach for killing people herself. she just gives the orders.

and so when faced with that situation, with her personal handmaiden traumatized, crying, covered in her parents' blood saying 'they're all dead', the smart thing to do would have been to kill her. but celene didn't do that. she just sent her away to near-certain death instead.

Briala is incredibly dangerous to Celene

especially post-TME, post realization of exactly how Celene orchestrated her rise to power

she is the only one who knows that Celene's claim on the throne is truly illegitimate, no matter how much Gaspard tries to argue it

not only did she have her own palace servants murdered

she had the emperor assassinated

which i think everyone misses?

she had him assassinated and then staged the murder of her palace servants to paint herself as an innocent victim who just happened to not be there that night

thats why all the palace servants were killed

so that suspicion would not fall on her for Florian's murder

the point was to make it look like the same assassins who went after her uncle were also going after her

when in reality she was the one calling the shots all along

i did briefly toy with writing a verse where Briala never met Felassan, where she made it to the Dalish safe at 14 years old and tried to become one of them

but the fact is that the moment he sent her back to Celene was a defining moment for her, something that fundamentally changed her, and she wouldn't have been anywhere near the same person without that

it told her, right there and right then, subtextually and insidiously, that the cause was the most important thing, more than her safety - because she knew it was dangerous being anywhere near the Empress-to-be, she wasn't stupid. she didn't even really know what the cause was at that point; he never told her what he got out of their meetings. so the cause to her became helping elves. and then that really quickly became warped to helping celene because she convinced her that it was the best way to serve the cause.

"what would have been different if she'd decided what she wanted to fight for on her own?"

she would have been a lot less.....not less dedicated, but less 'dedicated to the detriment of her own wellbeing'

if she had decided herself not to go to the Dalish, to stay by Celene's side to enact change, rather than just following the orders of other people, her story would be very different

concept: briala actually processing her trauma??? what???

bc you know the moment she got back to the palace with Celene after meeting Fel for the first time she threw herself headfirst into the Game

she focused all of her energy on intelligence-gathering and supporting Celene in her bid to become Empress

She never gave herself a single moment to grieve

and it isn't an uncommon story in Thedas, an elf watching someone or multiple someones they love cut down by humans

imagine if u will: briala, trying to have a funeral, not just for her parents, but for all of them

thats the thing i really feel the need to

idk

it wasn't just her parents

briala grew up in the palace. her parents were both palace servants.

she knew every single one of those servants. they were her friends and her family. and at the end of it she was left standing covered in blood in front of celene. celene was all she had left.

she didn't have any friends at the beginning of TME. she was friendly with the cook, but that was it.

celene took a generally happy, driven, and incredibly smart 14-year old elven girl and took away everyone she had ever known except herself. she made herself briala's world.

that's the real reason i hate that you can reunite them. its not that i don't believe they could be reunited - its that they can. because briala doesn't have anyone else. she has celene and felassan. that's it.

when you only have one person, its easy to make excuses for them and justify the things theyve done. its easy to believe them when they apologize and promise to do better.

thats why i want briala to have friends and lovers and people

i want to have a verse where she has grown so far beyond that point that she would laugh if Celene asked her to return to the palace

i want her to stop loving Celene but she isn't there yet

in my current writing, at least

she is still vulnerable to her in every verse where Celene is still alive

i just imagine her like

talking quietly about her childhood best friend among the servants

we don't get to see much of Briala's childhood

we get the moment of her mother telling her she mustn't try to hide her ears and that she must be proud of being an elf. that's really it.

but we do know that there were other children of servants who were considered for Celene's handmaiden aside Briala

i like to think she was friends with these other children. that she wasn't always lonely from the start

but of course that leads down the road of those friends being slaughtered as well so its a tradeoff

and then there's the question of whether when Celene kissed her when she was sending her away, if that was her first kiss, if she ever even had the chance to love someone else

i think a lot about how Briala spent 20 years learning how to love exactly 1 person the way she wanted to be loved

just imagining her trying to have a romantic relationship with someone else with that framework still in place is painful. it wouldn't work no matter how much she wanted it to because she'd be treating them like celene. she has no other model for how a relationship can work

she bypasses that somewhat with Lana, but its still there, thinking that the best thing to do is the thing that Keeps Lana Safe

she wouldn't recognize abuse if she got into another bad relationship

and she doesn't know how a relationship works where she isn't centering the other person's needs over her own

she gave up everything she ever wanted or aspired to for Celene

one time i got a prompt from a lyric starter list i made

'you can still be what you want to'

and briala just. broke for a moment.

'no. i can't. i never could - none of us ever could. thats why we fight.'

she doesn't have interests or hobbies or friends or a life

celene was her life and now she's filled that void with her cause

[do-you-have-a-flag]

racism isn't unintentional, they were well aware of what they were doing when they reduced poe to harmful stereotypes and sidelined finn in favor of white ppl, and it was a deliberate and homophobic choice to make everyone straight, none of this is unintentional which is kind of the entire issue and they do not deserve leniency or forgiveness and im glad that it's reflected in audience reviews b/c frankly LGBT and fans of color didn't like it for good reasons dont invalidate that b/c ur white

“at this point im so distracted by the homophobia and racism that every single character being out of character is just like the icing on the cake, like have your opinion on the movie but don’t be surprised that fans we’re digging the blatant racism and homophobia (and seriously, never again say they meant well when writing in racists tropes, thats fucking gross dude)my mood is u using “or*entalist” while trying to explain that you’re not ignoring the racism in the fandom… you literally said it was good intentions gone wrong that led to the racism we saw on screen, it wasn’t! it was white dudes who loved kylo ren as much as every other white person and hated all of the poc in the movie, if lgbt/poc fans are saying the movie was shit you know they’re saying that b/c we got shafted so dont be like “well it had good parts” like who cares, it was bigoted”

firstly: I use the term orientalist in the context of the racist exotification of east asians by western countries, england and america have a history of this, so does australia, I’m specifically addressing that exact form of appropriation as opposed to, for example, the appropriation of black culture, it was an attempt to conjure up specific associations to make a point and i’m sorry i wasn’t clear enough in my use of the word I assumed i would be understood but I should have worded myself better.

like i said before, I can’t speak for the entire lgbt community by from my tiny place in it and for myself I never expect a mainstream genre film coming out at this point in time to give us anything more than maybe audience baiting, tv shows have more freedom but even Star Trek, a franchise of similar standing to star wars, only managed last year to make canon gay characters a thing that wasn’t subtextual and it was only a few seconds of screentime. Is it disappointing and frustrating? Absolutely! we need to keep pushing for representation. but i wouldn’t call it’s exclusion homophobia but rather a result of the inability for the franchise to go beyond what’s safe in representation due to the homophobic culture of the west and in overseas markets (such as china). 

If we’re going to change this garbage representation we have to think nuanced about it, individuals can be pressured to change but we have to understand who they answer to.  Money is of course the root of all this, the fear of losing their biggest over seas market is one thing, if Disney owned Marvel movies edit the race of their character to avoid losing Chana’s audience don’t you think that Disney owned Star Wars might be in the same shitty position in terms of LGBT content? You don’t think that a franchise so entrenched in military skirmishes that WARS is in the title might have some other motivations that we need to examine critically? after all the Pentagon funds movies provisionally based on how positively they show militaristic content, and space fascists aside let’s not forget it is about generals and fighter pilots and bombardiers. there are a lot of institutions at play here in the influencing of how the movie show’s it’s content. it’s not just one man it is many making these bad decisions.

And as for racial representation as i stated i love the casting personally of poe and finn and rose, and the various resistance members, but I cannot speak on their characterisation and stereotypes and would like to see the arguments against them laid out because this really is the point i have least perspective on. 

Racism based on skin isn’t something i face because growing up in australia my mum immigrated here after the white australia policy was already ended, australia is still a racist country and the type of racism my mum and i faced was based on accent and sterotypes about “wogs” and horrible nationalism and islamophobia.  SO I don’t get a say in if it’s bigoted or not. But I do want to be able to talk to people who, because of my weird accent assume i’m american, will let their guard down enough for me to amplify the voices of people of colour concerned about this film. I want to be able to talk to people who because of my presentation of femininity assume i’m straight, will let their guard down, and i can talk to them and about why i think lgbt representation is important and should have been in this film.

my enjoyment of a movie doesn’t make it morally pure, i don’t believe any movie is morally pure, but i think we have to rate these things complexly and I care that it had good parts because kids deserve to see themselves in fun genre movies and this film was a baby step and coul have been better but if people keep buzzing about the stuff they want then the garbage money driven execs might be less resistant next time around

star wars is too big a franchise to die, it survived the prequels after all, so we have to be SPECIFIC with our criticisms if we want change.

listen, you seem determined to hate me and that’s fine, I’d rather you didn’t but you don’t have to like the movie that’s okay. 

bigotry is pervasive in many cultures, we have to get rid of it, and your anger and frustration is an important part of that. 

but i’m only gonna respond with my thoughts and feeling and my thoughts are that if we wanna fix things we have to be clear and nuanced in our discussions before we outright dismiss this type of film, my feelings are that it’s fiction shaped by the climate it was made in and the responses to it are also shaped by that climate and from my position in al this i have some criticisms but overall don’t think it is the be all and end all battlefield for representation.

anyway, another bias i have is i assume that people working on a franchise they love are gonna go in with good intentions, they have their own blind spots and biases that result in bad writing and casting decisions. being aware of these things is not excusing them it’s putting them in context. wanna change it? write about it. be clear. make a vlog. record a podcast. you sent me a message and that amplified your words so that’s a good step forward but you’re still being really vague be more specific

i agree with your concepts but not your specifics because you’re being too general with me. 

i don’t appreciate your tone because i have, you know, emotions, but my emotions aren’t what matter here, i still see what you’re saying and while i don’t agree with how you’re coming at it i think you’re being hyperbolic based on truths. they should have done better.

listen, i don’t know who you are but i’m not here to fight you, hey, what would you recommend I watch instead in terms of film? I can think of some decent scifi and fantasy content that have POC character and/or LGBT content in terms of tv that i have and haven’t watched (luke cage, star trek, the exorcist, raising dion, sense8, Shadowhunters) but it’s not enough and in varying levels of quality but if you have movie recs you think are good on this measure i wanna hear them because everyone deserves good scifi and fantasy stories

[missjackil]

Why Wincest? : An Honest Answer.

Like most Wincest shippers, I get asked a lot of different questions about why it is so appealing to me. Fortunately, I havent received any hate regarding it (yet) just mostly curiosity, and to be honest, I ask myself all the same questions. To be clear, I am only answering for myself, since everyone’s experience is different, but I know there are people who feel the same way. I’ll start by saying, I don’t have a brother kink, or any interest in m/m sex, but something about Sam and Dean specifically, intrigued me very early on. I’d say somewhere around “Woooaaah easy tiger” (Dean grins) “Dean!?” (Sam answers breathlessly) I thought, “Oh yeah, these 2 wanna bang each other!” and that was literally the first scene we ever saw of Sam and Dean together.  There is a reason why the writers/producers gave us a scene like this as our first introduction to the brothers’s relationship, it’s because they want us to sense sexual tension between them. This is the type of scene that TV shows and movies use to plant such thoughts between characters. For whatever reason 2 characters suddenly have physical contact, or maybe just long eye contact. The trope we’ve seen a million times, the “oops our bodies are touching and we made eye contact” that has started almost every love story ever. Since this is the very first scene between the brothers, the writers wanted to establish this immediately.  So, like so many people, I noticed this, and then thought “well thats kinda gross, they’re brothers” and moved on. However, it didnt stop there. The writers threw in text mixed with subtext to keep it going. From standing/sitting too close together, unnecessary touching, grabbing, pinning each other against the wall, and so on, mixed with spoken text about how much one needs the other, or how theres nothing they wouldnt do for each other, established in concrete, that these 2 are not normal brothers. 

Of course canonically, the boys don’t have a sexual relationship, and they never will, and Im absolutely fine with that, and honestly wouldn’t like if it was canon that they do. What I love is the level of love they have, and wondering how far they do go for each other, behind fictional closed doors of course. And is it really the worst thing they can do, or have done? Sam and Dean’s love to me, though toxic at times, is absolutely beautiful, and J2 convey it perfectly! They know all about wincest, and how it appeals to many of us, and not only does it not offend them, they play right along with it in the gag reels and at conventions. Even in the episodes that it is mentioned, The Monster at the End of This Book, Sympathy for the Devil, and Fan Fiction, the show acknowledges that many fans see and fantasize about wincest, and realize we really dont care that theyre brothers. Also the fact that they never allow the brothers to be romantically involved with anyone else for any significant length of time, shows that they don’t want us to stop thinking about it. And in the end, I am sure, the brothers will end up together forever. Whether it be in death or retirement, they are going to be with each other and not with romantic interests. 

Incest is a very taboo subject, no one will argue that, but sex between 2 consenting adults, no matter their relation, doesn’t have to be as taboo as we make it. I saw hate sent to a fellow wincest shipper via anonymous ask, claiming that if we accept the idea in fiction, than we accept the idea in real life, and that we say to children that its ok if their big brother, or dad or uncle touch them inappropriately. The fellow shipper answered defensively, and failed to actually answer the accusations. If it had been sent to me, I would have answered differently.  For one, no, accepting something in fiction means nothing in the real world. We accept all kinds of murder and infidelity in fiction, so why would this be different? Sam and Dean have a relationship that no one in the real world has. They don’t lust for each other, but they LOVE each other more than any of us have loved anyone. Most of us have someone we would die for, but none of us have someone we would sell our souls for. Not just sell your soul, but willingly set yourself up for eternal torment, in 1 years time, just so the other doesn’t die yet. Or, risk the fate of the entire world and everyone in it, just so the one we love doesn’t become evil, and those are only two things, in a long laundry list of things the Winchesters have done for each other. And if you did, and you and this person are consenting adults and wish to have sex? Go for it! I wont stop you. To the other part of the accusation, that this tells children its ok if brother, father, uncle etc touches them, I say “what?” This no more tells children such a thing, anymore than shipping a normal relationship tells children its ok to be touched so long as you’re not related. Seriously.  Another misconception is that if Sam and Dean have had a sexual relationship, it would mean they are bisexual, which canonically neither of them are. But that’s not true. To me, neither of them have sexual or romantic interest in men in general. It can be argued that subtextually they have, but that’s another thread. Canonically, Sam and Dean are straight, so how would they have sexual attraction to each other? Because it’s not the attraction at all, but a by product of a love so strong and deep that they’re literally exhausted every way to express it.  It seems like any wincest fan fic I read, portrays one or both as being at least bisexual, and sometimes full on gay, but that’s not necessary if you imagine the deep abiding love came long before the sex, not the deep abiding love developing from the sex. When some shippers see their sexual relationship develop or be experimented with when they were teenagers, usually they are showing that the epic love the brothers share developed out of curious, experimental sex in adolescence. For me, in my mind and in my fan fic, the sex always comes about the first time when they’re in thier 30s and have already done every other thing imaginable for each other, except for sex. And then for me it becomes beautiful, acceptable, and maybe kind of necessary. Not so much kinky, dirty, or taboo.  At SDCC Jared said “Sam and Dean love each other as much as two human beings can love each other” and to me, he accepts all the ways one can love another in that statement. Not saying he thinks they have, or wants them to have sex, but acknowledges romantic love is in there along with every other way.  This essay isnt to try to convert anyone, but so everyone can understand that there is more than one way to see this epic love, and explore its possibilities without hurting anyone.