#but season 4 byler just hurts in the needed way

[messrsbyler]

oh, you know. just the “main” couple of the show invalidating each other’s feelings in the span of one scene. this literally happens back to back.

maybe… now hear me out… maybe this is the duffers showing us how they aren’t really partners in their relationship, and how the aren’t loving each other in the way they should if it ends up with both of them being dismissed and hurt like this. they are trying to offer and ask for comfort, but can’t meet the other halfway because they aren’t really listening to the other. mayyyyybe because they are trying to hold onto a relationship that was never supposed to be romantic in the first place, and now they are carrying with the extra baggage and they don’t know how to deal with it without letting it crush them in the process.

but… you know… just a thought.

[byerseason]

why byler is the only logical way to end stranger things: a personal opinion

long post incoming. i've been thinking about what else can they do other than canon byler or is there any logical way which would please everyone. but i genuinely can't find any logical ending.

first of all, let's see the options i heard from people who doesn't think byler is gonna happen.

not adressing will's love for mike, mike never finding out about it and will's arc simply focusing on supernatural part : well, we all know that's impossible. not after spending a whole season to show us his deep love for mike. also it's confirmed that an emotional arc for him is what is gonna tie up the story.

"his love for mike was for him to explore his sexuality, he's gonna have another boyfriend." : they could easily show it to us without bringing mike into it. the byers moving to california was a perfect chance for it since it's a place better than hawkins when it comes to LGBT, they could easily give him a love interest, include him to their journey to find el just like they included argyle and give him a good character arc in s5, just like robin in s4. well, they didn't.

"mike is gonna reject will" : okay, then what was the reason of making him fall in love with mike? did the writers want to write a horrible story for the only gay child in the group? especially after showing us how miserable he feels about mike and how much he loves him? no.

now let's look deeper at the character arcs. my biggest reason to think byler is the only logical way is: will byers

i don't think i have to mention how much will suffered throughout the show and how he needs the happiest ending. they left season 4 at a point where everything about that love triangle is unresolved and they're obviously going to do something with it.

we all know mike is the one who understands will the most. he always been, since the very beginning. we've been shown that their bond is different and special. in a scenario where mike rejects will, we all know this is gonna be ruined. will is not gonna magically bury his love and go back to being besties with mike. and for mike, it's not possible for him to ignore will's love for him and stay friends as nothing happened. it would ruin their friendship for absolutely nothing.they can't simply take the only one who understands away from him.

will said he wants to spend the rest of his life with mike for two times. even if he doesn't have any hope, he desires it. so why giving him a love that he will never have? in this scenario will's character arc is literally "the gay kid always thought he will never have love just because he is gay, he thinks it's wrong and he is a mistake, well yes, he was right! he will never find the love and just watch the other straight people have it. thanks for watching stranger things." will's arc should be an arc where he is proven wrong, where he understands it's okay to love, where he is loved the way he loves, purely. otherwise his character arc is gonna be useless. where did we leave will in s4? he was thinking there's no chance for mike to love him and he has zero hope-- he ripped off the band aid. if mike rejects him the character arc and all the build up in season 4 becomes useless. he was at zero, and he is still at zero.

like i said giving him an arc where he is loved the way he loves was easy to be done without mike but now it's too late. they made it super clear that will doesn't want to be loved, he wants to be loved by mike. mike hurts him yet he still thinks mike makes him feel like he's not a mistake at all. that's not a simple crush. that's pure love. as a writer of a show you don't spend too much time to sympathize the characters love to the audience -something you never did with your other characters, at least not as much as will- you don't show them pouring their heart to a gift, just to waste it, just to make the character feel the worst they can feel just to make the person they love happy. will loves mike such a way that he prioritizes his happiness over his. this is what is gonna pay off.

the second character whose character arc needs byler: mike wheeler

mike has always been the most complicated character of the show, but most of his actions have no explanation other than him dealing with his own feelings. the show introduced mike as the leader of the party and i think it's okay to say he was one of the main characters in season 1 & 2. what happened after s2? a crazy character downfall. the audience started to dislike him and think he is useless. he didn't have any character development in the past 2 seasons. why? why? why?

because we all just watched him struggling. dealing with something inside of his mind that we don't know.

let's talk about a scenario where byler doesn't happen. this makes all mike's arc about being a love interest since s3. no development, no explanation for his behavior in the past 2 seasons. of course mike is traumatized and never talks to anyone which effects his behavior a lot. but there's still an unanswered question. why is he distancing himself from will specificially? the writers showed us that they understand each other the best, they know each other the best and notice if somethings wrong, so why is he distancing himself from the person who he needs the most as a best friend?

this is where we start to think if the problem is will himself, for mike.

why did we make will fall in love with mike just for mike to distance himself from will for no reason and make will upset? did we want will to suffer for no reason or create an empty storyline?

if mike is not how we think he is, he is going to end the show with an empty character arc who is nothing but a love interest, a side character. if mike ends up how we think he is, he is going to be the best onscreen representation of internalized homophobia. people think he is useless or just an asshole but he will turn out to be a perfectly written character who has his own arc.

people love to say "gay people didn't exist in 80s, byler would be unrealistic." which is completely wrong. gay people DID exist in 80s and they DID find love. did they have peace? they didn't. this is why mike and will are gonna be a real representation. we watched all the real struggles they went through. even if we don't get to see them as a couple, they will know they love each other by the end and that's what matters. and there's nothing unrealistic about it.

[0daylighthours0]

A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan Was Endgame All Along, Why Was it Written Like This???

SO. I've been rewatching st with my mother, who's never seen it before. And she was a fan of milkvan throughout seasons 1 and 2. Viewing those seasons again I could see why, they're cute. However, come season 3 and INSTANT distaste. And, listen, my mother is not the consciously shipping gal. She simply routes for main character pairings as writers intend, doesn't read between the lines, doesn't nothing. And she does NOT know my own opinions on the pairing. In other words, completely unbiased, uninternet drama influenced eyes. We've now reached season 3 and, after getting through a chunk of it, I asked her,

"so what do you think of Mike and El?"

and she expressed to me that they seem to be, quote:

"not very good together."

She said El's character doesn't suit the way she's acting now (in the first few episodes, concerning Mike), that Mike is more likeable and interesting when he's away from her. She doesn't like the way they ditched the party, and when it comes to their 'making out' the scenes are seen by her from Hopper's perspective (in other words, distasteful). She claimed that they'd be much better characters as friends.

And ya know what, she's right. And I mean like - duh, that's what we've been saying all this time, I'm not stating anything new here. But guys, wouldn't it be strange if the central couple of the show, pivotal that it is liked by audiences and is rooted for by them as they are THE pair, would be so dislikable like this? So uninteresting, so cliche.

I mean, okay, let's do a little mental experiment I like to do to test if I'm not just acting delulu. Let's play a game. In this game, milkvan ARE meant to be endgame. They are in love, they were all along, and they're here to draw in viewers and appease all El stans. Now, seasons 1 and 2 their relationship is honestly fine. Surface level, yeah, people will watch and appreciate them. They perfectly blend in with all the other neat pairings of the seasons, and have their own unique character traits to stand out as a main couple.

Just pretending our mate Will doesn't exist, we now get into season 3. Now, writers have nothing to lose here. If you've finished season 2, you probably like milkvan already. The issue is that they're already together now, so what's the conflict going to be? The arc? And every central couple needs that conflict to stay juicy.

Just take a look:

Jancy: quarrels, struggle to understand one another

Jopper: not yet together, one sided? will they won't they

Lumax: ...

Lumax? Lumax. Huh, guess they were simply together. Some loveable bickering, maintained a friendly dynamic while clearly in closer proximity. Well then, writers can do the same for milkvan right? Well, yes easily. But one might argue that since they are supposed to be THE pairing they need more going on between them than that. So what'll it be? Well, it seems that writers thought,

"hey, why not break them up?"

ok so.. that's a bit risky. I mean you want people to like this ship, if you break them up then that threats: 1. there being a disliking to one or both characters, 2. coming off generic if done incorrectly, 3. the break up might make no sense considering how in love they came off as just a season ago. But hey.. it could work, if done right. Some kind of misunderstanding, similar to Jancy. Maybe an argument leading to a sudden parting. I mean, yeah, Yeah! I can see that. Perhaps Mike is being too overprotective whilst El's trying to sacrifice herself for something, so she NEEDS to separate herself from him attempting to hurt him less. Or, I dunno, something akin. What's crucial is that us, AS THE AUDIENCE, still know them to be deeply in love. I mean, we have to still want them to be together. And we've seen couple trouble before. Just take a look at Lumax season 4 - did you or did you not want the best for both of them as a pair? You most likely did. See, it's doable. So did people like milkvan season 3 the same way, even after a separation plot? No.

Okay well, there are obviously those who'll always love milkvan no matter but, see, season 3 tainted it. "We need to write them like this cause it's more realistic to teenager behavior" my ars. You can make it messy without making it icky. Not only did it sour their unique dynamic, it flabbergastingly stomped on Mike as a character.

Honestly, I feel Mike has always been a mild struggle to write. Season 1 his motivations were 'find Will' (who still doesn't exist in our mind game yet shh) and 'protect El'. This worked well for him. Afterwards though, El and Will became more separate plots to him. But as a main character it remained integral that he be closely linked to them somehow. This sets him apart from Lucas and Dustin, who can easily be given any arc any season as their plots have the flexibility of a side quest nature. Since what Mike does is meant to matter more - with there probably being a better way of phrasing that but you know what I mean - it's harder knowing what he'll do when El and Will (who we'll GET to sh.) are their own separate people. And Mike is just a boy, he doesn't have super powers and he isn't a cop, which leaves there even less for him to do which is of significance. Season 2 writers decided upon having him support Will's arc, making himself of enough relevance by being able to take credit for some Will development in the story, and the plots that surrounded that, and then Mike was thrown a little bone by being the one to come up with the idea of burning those vines in the finale.

Truthfully, you don't really remember Mike's deeds much when reminiscing the series. It isn't like Dustin who's bond with Dart sticks to everyone, or Nancy and Jonathan responsible for kicking out Hawkins Lab. This is due to them, again, being able to traverse all sorts of adventures without limits. But my guy Mike can't do dat. Sadly, this kind of leads to him coming of as a little.. well... insignificant. And I know I know, the Mike truthers are gonna come at my throat. And hey! I love him too. I only want the best for my boy.

This makes season 3 a unique case cause it seems that, for the plot they decided they wanted, writers actually had to almost entirely change his character. I mean mate s2 Mike and s3 Mike are two different peoples, don't even. And I don't believe that the Duffers had their story and character turnouts completely drawn out from the very start at all. If I was to guess, I'd assume they have vague ideas of little plots they plan to include in future, but there is definitely a lot that has come unpredicted or changed throughout st's runtime. And one of those phenomenons are Michael Wheeler. So they decided to make this guy a di-

So they decided to make him more douchy, more movie typical teenage guy. It's not as if he wholly sucked, he didn't, but he didn't really do much. Whined about his girlfriend, separated the party. I mean what even was his arc? (UnLESS–)

You see, if milkvan is written to be loved, then season 3 was strike one. All of its charm was stripped away. It seems they had some cute scenes after their reconciliation, but it's not enough. It's just sort of

"oh, ok, so they're happy with eachother now. yayy."

and Stranger Things should want to be anything but boring. Sure they often enjoy indulging in tropes, but they always do something different with them. Something standoutish. And from this point on milkvan just got dull. Either writers ran out of ideas or lost interest, honestly (still with our mind game of telling ourselves they're meant to be).

But it's okay. Look, so season 3 was a bit rocky, maybe lost a couple of fans for the guys, but it is salvageable. Easily, easily. Looks like we want a plot of Mike struggling to tell El he loves her. Great! Much to work with.

So let's get into it. Season 4! Choices were... made. And, okay, now we can't go any further without bringing in our boy Will.

Mike is intrinsically tied to Will and El and has been from the start. Maybe Will was more of an accident. Maybe s1 Will was just a plot device for Mike, then s2 Will was a plot device again and Mike needed to be there as the main boy character. Come season 3 and it seems their relationship still matters. Will was sidelined - hard - so most of Mike's moments revolved around El. But as his bond with Mike is the only that's been properly built up, that's the only friend we'll get him interacting with in a way that matters. So the Mike and Will tie continues!

But that does not have to be the case for season 4. Now the writers have a chance.

They made Will gay.

Ok so.. ok so yeah that's fine. Yeah! I mean they didn't have to do that, might put them in hot water with the bylers since milkvan is their golden beauty but.. you know what no no that's okay. He's been hinted at being queer since episode 1, why not make it canon! Cool that works. Explore that, especially since we now have Vecna who can easily target Will for this. Give him a boyfriend! Or a guy crush. He's at a new school now? That's cool. Maybe we can explore some new male character Will's taken interest in. Hey maybe he meets someone who interests him which rises to surface his whole sexuality plot and-

he's in love with Mike.

Ok. No. No. What are you doing? What do you mean?? You didn't have to do that. Strike- strike EFING TWO mates! Strike. 👏 efing. 👏 2!

This was part 1. I am tired and gots to get my ars in bed. But ohohoh, do not worry. I am just getting started.

[paulovieorq]

Queer shipps that sould've Been Canon

These are the ones that were very hinted on the show but never became Canon

JOHNLOCK

HANNIGRAM

Bryan fueller confirmed the shipp is Canon... But It was never shown in an explicit way in the show

SUPERCORP

Do i really need to say something about these Two ?

KLANCE

This one Hurts DEEP

DESTIEL

This one Hurts even DEEPER

BUDDIE

Kristen reidel i Hope you get fired

BECCA AND CHLOE

The queerbait was also strong in this one

FINN and POE

Even the actors shipped It and Kathleen Kennedy ( president of Lucasfilm) Said that they thought about the possibility... But It was put away

JEDEDIAH and OCTAVIUS from a night in the museum... I mean C'mon

Now some shipps that were not hinted at but had a Lot of chemistry to become Canon If the writers wanted to:

STEDDIE: stranger things

I Mean... C'mon their chemistry was undeniable...

WENCLAIR: wednesy

I unfortunately don't think It is going to happen for obvious reasons... But i think they're so cute together

JJPOPE: outer banks

It would be amazing... But the writers preferred to stick with another generic straight shipp Just like 100000 others

Now this one i still have Hope to Go Canon ( and in my opinion is going to happen )

BYLER: stranger things

After seeing some analysis on YouTube and tiktok It makes A LOT of sense of them being endgame... And honestly... It would be the only way possible to end the show

And no one can Tell me that the final scene from Season 4 was not a foreshadowing that they're going to be endgame... These are literally the endgame couples behind eleven

[bitofanupsidedowner]

people who want will to get a boyfriend who isn't mike make zero sense to me ngl... i get that mike is kind of a jerk but i just don't feel like it makes a lick of sense tbh, and i also just think anything bad thing mike’s done is best justified/made sympathetic and solved by the conclusion he’s been struggling with his feelings towards will. 

mike is in no way this unredeemable person and i think it’s pretty extreme to treat it like he is. he isn’t perfect, but he’s shown that he does care about will much more often than he’s hurt him. just the facts.

like. yeah sure byler has been built up since season one and mike has been written in a way that made it literally impossible for will TO get a separate love interest. despite mike having a literal girlfriend, his jealousy and protectiveness over will didn’t leave any empty space. we all saw his weird reaction to the painting at the airport and how when dustin and lucas wanted to help will on halloween he yelled at them and shoved them away. 

but like... yeah, let's throw him with some random guy we have no time to get invested in so mike and el can keep being a dysfunctional mess with no chemistry or shared interests even though it would make no sense, have no emotional payout and  is not in any way what mike or will need for a satisfying conclusion to their character arcs (or el! it negatively affects all three.)

separating the two would be the only opportunity possible to give will someone new. it would’ve been tricky to make it believable, but it was their only chance after mike’s emphasis in will’s storyline. that in itself is suspicious, but they essentially told us with mike’s little ‘oh shit’ closet moment that they would not be doing that. 

instead, they kept doubling down on mike and will. they even made the cali plotline sort of agonize over it, with mike and will pulling in the most heart-to-hearts of any duo in any one season afaik. the emphasis on their relationship has been too integral to the show. having had wills sexuality in mind from season one, making mike as big an element in that storyline to begin with is not without consequence. they wrote it in a way that made it almost impossible to reasonably go in another direction.  

they spent a lot of time especially in season 4 showing us how mike and will’s relationship comes naturally to them, has a good  foundation of mutual love and respect, and just generally functions better than mike and el and can repair itself without that much effort. even when mike and el are in their ‘good’ phases, they have less going for them than mike and will in their ‘bad’ phases.

will’s feelings for mike are directly contrasted with el’s. mike makes will feel better for being different. he makes EL feel like a monster. with el, she begged him to say it and he denied her, implying he didn’t ‘know what to say’ and agreeing when will said ‘what if they don’t like the truth?’ he denied her what she wanted until will told him to say it. the text is very directly comparing el and will’s dynamics with mike for a reason.

you never say it > i say it

oh, i didn’t say it. > you didn’t have to.

it doesn't make sense to set this up and then retreat back into a relationship that is mutually destructive, that hinders all three characters growth and self worth, and goes directly against their character arcs. it makes no sense to make will in love with mike at all if it was going to end up with a new guy shoehorned in last minute.

 there’s a reason it’s mike and not lucas or dustin that will fell for. there’s a reason that the majority of people are ecstatic about lumax, jopper, jancy and duzie but find milkvan tedious and forced. 

it's filling the same place in my brain rn as when people want will to have a villain arc. it just does not make any sense to me to actively desire  conclusions to arcs that would undo character progress or just completely misshape the character profile permanently. 

it isn’t JUST a romantic relationship will wants. he doesn’t just have a hankering for a boyfriend. it’s not just about having SOMEONE. it’s specifically mike’s love. it is specifically spending his life with mike that has been explicitly stated over and over again as what he truly wants. 

i feel like it’s fairly rare for characters to both know and state plainly what they want, but will does, which i think is honestly so admirable. he admits it when he is at his most vulnerable (rain fight) when it would be more beneficial for him to just pretend. but he doesn’t. he’s hurt, but he doesn’t hide from it. 

the fact he doesn’t even surprises mike, who was expecting for will to agree that changing drastically and obsessing about girlfriends was the natural progression they were supposed to take. after his wish is put into the open and seemingly rejected, he destroys castle byers. 

mike is insecure about wanting this, but we know he wants that too, we just dont have the explicit confirmation if it’s romantic yet. 

the point being that the emphasis has already been placed on not only who/what will wants, but how confident he is in that never changing. he wants it deeply and forever.

it isn’t just a boyfriend he wants, it’s mike. 

that’s the person he has the deepest connection to, that’s the guy who saved him, who pulled him out of the upside down, fought the hardest for him, stayed by his side when he needed him, befriended him when he was five years old because he thought, ‘he’s like me.’ mike gets a lot of criticism, but none of that is how will himself feels. to him, that’s the guy who makes him brave enough to accept his sexuality. it’s mike, it's always been mike, and it doesn’t make sense narratively for him to be with anyone else.

‘what if you want to join another party? > not possible.

[kiirotoao]

07/07/2023: Happy Byler Day!

In celebration, here’s a countdown list of my top 7 Byler details/moments!

7. Eggs and syrup (s1e1 and s3e1)

This detail is pretty easily overlooked, especially considering that it’s present for only two blinks throughout the show, but it’s one of my favorites. In fact, this detail was one of the first Byler facts that got me to ship Byler. The representation of the unconventional breakfast pairing for the show’s quote-unquote unconventional relationship pairing is just too perfect. I love this silent emphasis of their queerness together.

6. At it again (s3e5)

I don’t have a proper title for this moment, haha, but I can quote this scene from memory and just. Have to say it along with Byler. Every single time I rewatch 😭. The drama. The shouted whispers. Mike’s idiocy. Will’s sass. It’s glorious. It’s beautiful. And, best of all, it hurts way less than the rain scene, which is a win for me. Also, I love how these two fought really badly literally a day ago, but then they come around to arguing like a true married couple again because they can’t help but gravitate to one other.

5. “Crazy together” (s2e2)

Ah, the Byler staple. Now, this scene got me to put Byler on my radar when I first watched the show, so I have to give it a top 7 spot, for sure. Also, just, this scene is so tender and sweet. What a lovely way to show how sometimes the best relationships are made through sharing the worst times in your life. It really does help to have someone to confide in through awful situations, and this scene heartwarmingly highlights that. Additionally, their youth and innocence taking on this trauma together is what gets me every single time. Byler are so strong for each other, and it shines so brightly, here. It’s plain endearing.

4. The heart-to-heart apology (s4e4)

This scene is literally the pinnacle of Byler’s unspoken love, and the flirtation is off the charts. It’s just so, so lovely, and the atmosphere is simply wonderful and fit to make you forget you’re watching a thriller show. The flirting itself is all that I need to spotlight for this scene, and truly, I don’t have to say anything about it, do I? This moment just speaks for itself.

3. The shed scene (s2e8)

When making this list, I was torn between 3 and 4, but I ended up putting the shed scene at the top 3 because Mike’s speech here absolutely wrecked me the first time I watched it. The tears, the transparency, the traction despite Will being unable to utter a word in reply. I also just made a kinda long-winded grammatical analysis on the phrase above: “it was the best thing I’ve ever done” and how soft and adorable it is to say, and I cannot describe how close to tears I was, too, when watching this scene, like Will was. How often do you hear your best friend pleading for your life by talking about how you changed theirs? This moment is so sweet.

This moment is also somewhat unprompted, drawn from the rawest recollection of Mike’s mind, coupled with the desperation, it brings out how truly important this moment is for Mike. And the fact that this speech seems to prompt Will’s Morse code tapping makes it all the better for us to know that Mike’s message was very likely received. This scene is simply so tender. It is Mike and Will in their most exposed forms all season long, maybe even ever, for Mike (because I think that the van scene might be Will’s, but let’s not worry about that right now, this is a happy post 🙈).

2. “Not possible.” (s3e8)

I wish I was exaggerating when I say that Mike’s little smile in this scene changed my brain forever. Well, maybe I don’t care that I wasn’t exaggerating, actually. This scene is unapologetically adorable. It’s not as flirtatious as the s4e4 heart-to-heart apology, not as lengthy as the “crazy together” scene, not as clearly pivotal as the s1 opener, but it’s chock full of implicit love.

I love how Mike and Will communicate through dnd, particularly how they talk about the game differently apart from other Party members, and that’s the kicker that I love about this scene. Usually, Mike especially as we’ve seen throughout seasons 1-3, dnd is referenced with a sense of leadership about the Upside Down, used as a tool for knowledge with others. But between Mike and Will, here? They use it as a tool for their relationship, which is such a wonderful contrast to show how much Mike and Will mean to each other. And what’s more, Mike brings up this analogy, first, singling out Will and how special he is to Mike.

“What if you join another party?” It’s a simple question, and at face value, it sounds like, ‘what if you find another friend group without me? What if you move on?’ Which I think it is asking, but it’s also, ‘what if you move on from me?’ And Will’s quick and faithful reply, “not possible” is all we need to hear to know that Will is going to carry Mike’s love with him no matter what. Topped with cute glances each other’s way and a quickly leaving Will to let the emotion wordlessly simmer, this tiny flirt holds my heart.

1. The season-episode parallels

If this detail looks familiar, it’s because I’ve talked about this one before. And, yeah, looking at it a lot more over the past year, I gotta say that it’s my favorite thing about Byler.

It is such an interesting detail, and basically, it’s the way that the episodes of s1e1, s2e2, s3e3, and s4e4 all have pertinent Byler moments, arguably the most important Byler moments per season that kickstart a lot of the show, and every single scene has so many little details that they share. Mike on the left, Will on the right. Will’s honesty, Mike’s unawareness. The clothing. The alternating lighting. It’s been my favorite parallel to talk about on all platforms I’m active on, and so I crown this one as my winner. It’s such a loaded parallel, and it’s everything in my niche that I love to talk about as it covers so much of the show and Byler, from the bigger details of how it affects the show down to the smaller details of lighting, clothing, and coloring.

And also, this parallel inspired me to make my TikTok account and dedicate it to Byler. Then one thing led to another, and so this detail is kinda the reason why I’m here on Tumblr, too. So I owe it a lot, haha.

The season-episode parallel reminds me that I’m not alone or ‘looking into it too much,’ and even if this is all a coincidence, it’s a damn good one.

Thanks for reading, and Happy Byler Day, again! Now, go forth and enjoy more posts!

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

It’s really funny when you think of season 4 basically being a tragicomedy where two fruity disasters are engaged in a dance of who can miscommunicate the most. They both are actually on the same page with a desire to go crazy together and be a team but they assume the other boy is reading an entirely different book. Mike goes to Cali frazzled with a million chaotic thoughts, his confusion and flustered heart barely concealed by his Big Bird core outfit.

I have a girlfriend and I’m supposed to love her. Of course I love her, she’s my girlfriend! She’s El! She has superpowers! She’s changed my life! Yes, stick to the script! I can’t wait to meet her friends she’s been telling me about and also to meet Will 😍. Wait, why did I just get flustered? It’s just Will. My friend. Will Byers. WHO HAS APPARENTLY BEEN MAKING A PAINTING FOR A MYSTERIOUS GIRL?!? I wonder what that’s about. Actually I don’t wanna know. It’s fine. Oh my God, he got hot. Why did he get hot? Wait, don’t think that. That’s weird. He’s a boy. He’s Will. Act calm. Be normal. Uhhh. hi 😍 😍😍 Wait, why isn’t he showing me that? Does he hate me? Of course he does. Why wouldn’t he?

Meanwhile Will, with no idea about Mike’s internal monologue, is extremely eager and happy to see his best friend again and is utterly confused why he is being so weird and not hugging him and why his outfit is so questionable. I guess he doesn’t care about anything I have to say anymore. I’m so stupid. Why did I make this painting and bring it to this airport like a loser? He doesn’t want to see it. Which is literally the opposite of the truth. And then things start happening too fast to process anything, and everyone’s talking fast, and El is flagrantly lying to Mike and it’s quite disturbing. Why would she do that? Friends don’t lie. This can’t end well.

And then at the roller rink Will is in tragic yearning mode while also keenly aware that a fire is brewing and wanting to put out the fire before it hurts both his sister and his best friend, both of whom he loves dearly. But Mike is oblivious to all of this while in his feelings about Will, paying absurdly close attention to Will “moping and rolling his eyes,” interpreting things in the wrong way. And then he shoots up like a gopher on adderall when Will tells him they need to talk about El because something is terribly wrong- which would be crystal clear if Mike wasn’t hyperfocused on Will’s every mood swing- and he refuses to believe it until it becomes undeniable, choosing instead to address what is clearly on his mind significantly more than his actual girlfriend on a theoretical date. And they have a high school musical coded fight in the middle of the building, entirely misunderstanding where the other boy is coming from, and it just leaves them more flustered, frustrated, and confused. But because they are incapable of personal space, it doesn’t make them drift apart physically. They stand side by side as El absolutely decks Angela to Will’s shellshocked sinking feeling of “This is my fault. I should have prevented this from happening,” and Mike’s feeling of horror and shock and, “Where did any of this come from? I just got here.”

And then later on El and Mike have their fight about him not being able to say I love you, which is confusing and full of gaslighting and contradictions and is super messy no matter how the cake is sliced, but Will is not there for any of this, so he has no reason to believe El and Mike are on the rocks. Because why would they be? He heard Mike say I love you to a room full of their friends a year ago. And Mike is clearly dealing with so many internal thoughts and conflicted feelings that he won’t share with the class- with the class being both Will and the audience- so post el’s arrest and post her “superhero” journey we have to watch Byler have these incredibly coded conversations that get increasingly more chaotic. Mike’s basically like, “Yeah bestie I’m not sure about this whole macaroni and cheese thing and I don’t know if me and El are really right for each other, you know? It was prolly like dumb luck or something, but you’re the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me, Will, and I think we should work together as a team, as best friends, as lovers- wait, who said that? Anyway, what do you think, my totally platonic bestie?”

All this as [tender, emotional music] plays. And Will, even though it destroys him inside, is extraordinarily selfless, and is basically like, “I’m sure you and El will work things out and talk through whatever’s happening. You love each other. You are perfect for each other. And I will always be here to reassure you.” And Mike’s like, “That’s not how I envisioned this convo going. Are you sure?” And while holding back tears, Will’s like, “Of course I’m sure! Why wouldn’t I be sure? Look at this painting I made you.” And Mike’s like “Wow 😍😍😍 did you make that for me?” And Will’s like, “Sure did! Actually El basically did. She commissioned it.” And Mike is like, “Oh. Okay. It’s still really beautiful tho. Which of course it is. Because you made it. But I… I’m confused. But I don’t fully understand why I’m confused. I’m glad El needs me! I think?”

Meanwhile, Byler literally wants the same things, they both deeply desire and love each other, but they don’t know how the other feels. And if they both paused for one second, were fully honest with each other, and stopped speaking in code, things would fall into place. And they could walk hand in hand, crazy together, into the apocalypse.

[mirkwoodsuperspy]

rink-o-mania fight

the line "let's just... let's just find her. okay?" is so tender and dear to me.

for me, it's like the "you can't leave, it's raining" of season 4.

"you can't leave, it's raining" was more of a "mike showing will he cares about him without intending to" moment, which is why it's so special to me.

for me, "let's just... let's just find her. okay?" is slightly different, but they are both part of a fight scene. "let's just... let's just find her. okay?" is so special to me for a different reason. they've just had a fight.

in my opinion, "we used to be best friends", for mike, was almost like "it's not my fault you don't like girls" for will. neither of them meant to hurt the other, but they felt betrayed, because will didn't expect mike, of all people, to say that, out loud. and mike didn't expect will to call him out for being a bad friend, and he didn't expect will to bring up the fact that they are not like they used to be, because he was holding out hope that when he saw will again, everything would be better. but no, will called him out, and the worst thing is, mike deserved it.

then mike turned defensive, and he started making excuses. and will didn't know this, but mike felt horrible about himself, not just when will called him out, but also ever since will left. he probably didn't know how many times mike thought of him, and wished he were there. how many times mike didn't feel like himself without will, how he didn't feel home without will.

and he blames himself, just like how the general audience and many byler shippers do. he's at fault, and he thinks will is completely reasonable in everything he said, but he wished will wasn't. that's why there were so many excuses, because mike didn't want to tell will how much he tried, how much he cared.

but despite all this, after all this, mike just sighs and utters the line, "let's just... let's just find her. okay?" to me, he's comforting will, like "it'll be okay", just like he used to when they were younger, he's trying to patch things up gently, because he doesn't want to fight anymore. (side note: he wants to apologise, but he cares about el, and they do need to find her). he's convincing both will and himself, he's trying to get them to work as a team. and the "okay?" at the end, almost like he needs validation from will, and at the same time, he's trying to say to will, in his own way, the he's sorry. let's take a moment. let's pause the argument before i say something i regret.

and the sigh? mike doesn't want to fight anymore. but he has to, because he just can't tell will the truth, can he?

[isitisitearlymichael]

Taking Byler out of the equation for a moment…

Mike’s monologue fell really flat for me because the show has barely allowed us to watch Mike and El interact properly. Most of their interaction at the start of season 4 is blighted by the fact that El was hiding under a facade, and their last interaction before they were separated was an argument about that fact.

Before this, they’d been separated for around 6 months, had a unclear relationship for 3 months prior to that (especially considering how awkward they were when parting), and had only dated since the previous Christmas.

So if we were supposed to believe everything Mike was saying about the way he felt, I just wasn’t buying it. Saying things like “I’ve never felt this way about anyone before” etc just made him look so young and naive, which he probably is.

It’s not that I doubt that he cares about her. Of course he does. He really wants to protect her, and he thinks she’s amazing. He’s never met anyone like her before, and he’ll never meet anyone like her again. But that doesn’t mean their relationship is as deep as the monologue tries to infer.

Meanwhile, the relationship we do actually get to see develop, even if the characters are pushed aside somewhat, is Mike’s friendship with Will. And the Mike we see in those scenes is a Mike we never get to see with El. He actually opens up to him, trusts him with his insecurities and is so comfortable in his presence. This is something we’ve seen since their bond was focused on in season 2.

Even when Mike hurts Will, even when he doesn’t even understand how, he takes no time to take the full blame and apologise. Because he knows he needs Will. He can’t lose him.

And when you have a character repeatedly saying he “can’t lose” his girlfriend, to be taken in a way that he loves her, then talk about how feeling like he “lost” Will hurt him - we’re not supposed to start seeing what’s actually going on here?

But truth be told, Mike has played his part in his relationship with El. The missing part of the puzzle has been El’s thoughts and feelings. There has obviously been issues with her ability to express herself previously, but the girl we saw in season 4 was someone who can talk very well now. So supposedly having her feelings for Mike expressed through Will’s was actually really frustrating, if they really want the couple to actually be endgame.

They can’t just finish the season with her clearly distancing herself and having barely spoken to him for two days, and expect the audience to also feel encouraged that the monologue solved everything. In fact, having Mike and El’s big romantic moment be linked to the near-death of her best friend just screamed cursed anyway.

So I honestly don’t understand how anyone could be satisfied with taking what we got at face value and accepting it as the way forward.

From what I’ve seen, a lot of the audience aren’t buying it, but many of them just haven’t picked up or accepted Byler as the alternative yet.

[starsarefire824]

Everyone are having doubts do you still believe in byler endgame and if you do how you think will be? Not what do you wants but what really will happens knowing the duffer and how they write the show.

Hey anon, thank you for the ask!

As far as Byler goes, I'm still at the same point I've been this entire time...I honestly and truly believe that the writing has hinted at, suggested, alluded to it being real. I h lol ave personally been on the "wrong" side of a different major fandom (which I won't mention here)---ridiculed, called crazy, obsessive etc--to then have everything we had claimed from the beginning be proven true in the final act. If you want to know what I'm talking about you can probably figure it out from my profile or you can message me and I'll go on that rant in private lol.

Either way, my point is.....everything that is happening in this fandom...mimics that one entirely. It is a fandom that is dominated by a generally male, white, hetero-normative point of view. And so I think it's easy to lose hope, it's easy to give in to those people telling you that you're crazy for seeing what you're seeing.

But what it comes down to in the end is, most of us have been here since season 2. Most of us have been noticing the hints for years. And after season three, I'm not really sure what people are looking at if they are not seeing the complicated relationship that Mike has with El and Will. It is a canon fact that he cannot balance them emotionally. When one is in his life, the other is out. Season 3 proved that when they are both in his life at the same time, he cannot make it work. When he is paying attention to El, he is hurting Will. When he is paying attention to Will, he is hurting El. And this all comes to a head in season 4.

And season 4 is interesting to me because once again, El is (after a few episodes) quickly removed from Will and Mike's immediate story line. Mike, once again, ends up with Will in situations that make them work together. Situations that make them be emotionally vulnerable with each other. Situations that allow them to become closer.

I firmly believe that there is a reason, besides Mike being emotionally stunted by his family, that he can't say "i love you" to El. I think that the writers' had specific intentions when they wrote Mike's "love confession" to El as a direct response to Will's emotions. I firmly believe that if I was supposed to be rooting for El and Mike to be together, I as an audience member, would have been given a private, softly lit, romantically coded emotional scene between Mike and El post "2 days later". But we didn't. The softly lit, emotional, intimate moment we got? Was with Will.

Furthermore, El and Will have been directly paralleled since season one and since season 2 both of their storylines have directly revolved around Mike. And one character, Will, has been the one that has been show to need and want Mike in the way that he needs to be needed and wanted. Will has been the character that specifically benefits from Mike's attention and love. El's journey has always been for herself. It has always been figuring out where she belongs in the world and claiming her autonomy from Brenner (and Henry and many others).

As for how I believe the Duffer's will accomplish this? I have as good a guess as the rest of you. I am just a humble fan. But from the context clues that we've been given throughout the show....I have a hunch that El and Will will discover some sort of connection between the two of them. This connection will probably directly relate to the pull they feel towards Mike. I think that El will continue her journey from season 4 of self-discovery and standing on her own two feet, rejecting the men (people) around her who tell her they know what she wants/needs/desires. I think that Will will have his "coming of age". He will finally accept himself for who he is. I think it will be revealed that Will has some sort of direct connection to either the Upside Down or Henry himself. I think that he is the "cure" or the "key" to healing what has been broken. I really love the "wonder twin" idea that Will and El will work together to defeat Vecna.

And finally, I think that Mike, the knight, the paladin, the heart of the party....he'll finally realize where his heart truly lies. And Will, understanding that his love is reciprocated, that their love is true. I really think it will, in some way, (even if it's one small working part in the huge machine that is Stranger Things), help defeat the evil that has reigned over Hawkins for too long.

Maybe I'm too much of a romantic. But I'm gonna continue to believe it until I'm proven wrong. I will be the first to admit defeat as it comes, but for me....

There are just too many parallels, hints, subtext etc. for me to believe anything else at this point. I don't think the Duffer Brothers are pulling our leg, I don't believe they are trying to queerbait us, I don't believe they made this show for the people of Reddit and Facebook. I truly think, when they said it was for the "outsiders" and the "misunderstood" they meant it. And imo, Byler is a real part of that that will be made clear in the final act.

Let's hope we're right! <3

[chirpsythismorning]

Saying gay Mike would be hated by the ga bc that would mean that he used El all those years, is homophobic, just like saying bi-Mike would be hated by the ga bc that would mean he could have just stayed with El if he is also attracted to girls, is biphobic.

Bylers using either of these as the basis for why their interpretation is most likely to play out in canon, just makes me cringe bc why are we even wasting time giving validation to homophobia/biphobia as having the last word for how the show has to play out?? Is that what it all comes down to then? Appeasing bigots??

Gays aren’t evil or trying to intentionally hurt others, least of all gay kids that are figuring out their sexuality. Let’s not act like being gay wasn’t seen as being broken or needing to to be fixed, meaning that going along with what society views as normal, was and still is seen as the only option for queer people in general. And I say queer people in general bc you don’t necessarily have to even be gay to experience questioning your sexuality and feeling like you have to do things because everyone else is. Arguably we all go through that! But especially gays in the 80’s bc for a lot of people back then, it was a matter of blending in to survive (for many it still is).

Bisexuals aren’t evil or trying to intentionally hurt others for falling out of love, losing feelings, or just merely not being attracted to/compatible with someone of the opposite sex. Straight people are capable of recognizing that they aren’t attracted to or compatible with every person they meet of the opposite sex. Does any of that make them less straight? No. So why is it so hard to understand it’s the same way for bisexuals and even queer people in general? Nobody, bisexual or otherwise should have to stay in relationships with someone they no longer have romantic feelings for, just bc they’re attracted to them or even were just confused and thought they were but it ended up not being enough?? Attraction is important, yes, but feelings are arguably even more so (especially when you have something else to compare it to, causing the dilemma in the first place). I mean look at Stancy/Jancy? Is Nancy viewed as problematic for being attracted to Steve and having deep feelings/being attracted to Jonathan, and having conflicting feelings about that? No! And so why should it be problematic for Mike?

The reality is, homophobes are going to hate Mike if he comes out as queer, regardless of whether he is revealed to be gay, bi or unlabeled.

This is why basing Mike’s sexuality on the backlash of bigoted audiences’ is a moot point to me.

I mean, as it is, most of the general audience already hates Mike as a result of his behavior in s3-4, and this is straight Mike we’re talking about! I’m obviously not referring to milkvans or Redditors, bc they only make up a minority of hardcore fans who hate byler and will defend Mike to the point of demonizing El. I’m talking about viewers that have seen the show once through each time a new season releases and then move on afterwards without being in online spaces. That is the majority. The majority of the general audience, homophobic or otherwise, does not like Mike anyways at this point. So, who the hell cares what they think about queer Mike in the end??? They’re already anticipating going into s5 and continuing to dislike him, so the argument that the show can’t do this or that bc those same people won’t like him?… That ship has already sailed.

If anything I could see the non-homophobic majority accepting queer Mike, regardless of what label he ends up identifying with, bc then at least it will finally give them some clarity about where that resentment they had for him was coming from, ie misunderstanding him completely and now finally getting some answers.

At the end of the day, bigots will do what they do best. They’ll make up any reason they can think of for why queer Mike is wrong. And so why should we base our interpretation of things on what will be more palatable to those that the show was never intended for in the first place?

[nowmemoriees]

VAN SCENE SCRIPT ANALYSIS | 4×08 (byler)

Full Script 👇 (Provided by @strangerwriters official twitter account)

Now, we start.

First, we get an introduction to the scene, as Argyle is talking about another pizza store called Domino's, and he says this interesting phrase before the focus goes to Will and Mike -> "Your dominos gonna fall"👀

Then, the focus goes to Mike and Will. They're having the Vegas conversation, where Will jokes about El making them super rich.

- [...] We could just -- retire and play DND and Nintendo for the rest of our lives. (This phrase is so important to the byler plot, because it reassures what Will already said in season 3: He wants to be with Mike his entire life <3)

But, he notices that Mike is not in a great mood by the moment, so, instead, he comforts him.

Mike says how he feels, he's afraid of the idea of El not needing him anymore. He says this interesting phrase when Will reassures him that El will always need him:

- [...] That's what I keep telling myself, but the truth is -- I don't believe it. Not really.

It's like, a part of him already assumed that El will no longer need him. We confirm this when he mentions that meeting El was not fate, it was just dumb luck. It was not a choice.

He says that he started to understand that El doesn't need him. He saw it, he saw it in her eyes. -> WHY WAS THIS PART DELETED FROM THE VAN SCENE??? THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT MENTION.

If we connect the "I saw it. I saw it in her eyes" line with the "I don't believe it. Not really" one, we can see that the writers intention was to show us that Mike already knows that El doesn't need him, so it turns his monologue from 4×09 to be even more contradictory 👀

This moment was like the perfect excuse for Will to finally show Mike his painting. He's not sure at first, but then, he doesn't even care about anything anymore. -> Screw it.

When Mike first sees the painting, his breath catches. That was his first reaction, and this is so interesting, because this expression has been used before in ST scripts, with other couples👀

I also want to point out the way how Mike and Will are apart from the rest of the group, when the script says -> Mike, Will and the others.

Mike thinks the painting is amazing, he can't even believe what he's seeing. But Will messed it up, saying that it was commisioned by El -> He lied.

and every lie has consequences in ST.

Jonathan clocks the lie, he knows what Will is going through. Will makes it even more obvious to him when he starts talking about being different and how scary it is. -> Will was definitely not talking about El.

Will also explains Mike why he added a heart to his shield, making a whole speech about Mike being the heart of the group. (I wonder if that was his plan from the beginning, or if he just made up that whole speech in his head right in that moment.)

When Will keeps talking about his feelings (covered up using El's name), he also says that losing Mike hurts, as he gets emotional.

- [...] Losing you -- It just hurts -- It hurts too much.

That line was deleted from the scene (And I'm glad it was, because it's so painful)

When Will finally reassures Mike and tells him that El will always need him, Mike is supposed to ask "You really think so?" And Will should have said "I know so", confidently.

But instead, it was replaced with a simple but emotional:

- Yeah?

- Yeah.

It goes back to the part of 4×04 where, instead of the "Cool - Cool" exchange, Mike and Will should have said those previous lines (Yeah? - Yeah.)

Finally, we see that Will turns and looks out the window, giving way to melancholy. But he wasn't supposed to cry, it was all a part of Noah's acting. Such a talented boy <3.

[moonflowerdamie]

i’m super bored so i’m gonna rate stranger things ships! buckle in folks, let’s get into it😎

•mileven—4/10•

it’s ok ig. i’m not like a hater of it? but it’s definitely not a great ship. no hate to mileven stans, it’s just not for me. i liked them in season 1 and 2, but it got toxic and weird in season 3 and season 4 solidified my disdain for it. i think mike needs to do some self-reflection (maybe discover a few things about himself—michael wheeler i know what you are) and i think el needs to become her own person outside of her relationship with him. i wholeheartedly support the el/mike exes-to-besties agenda though!

•jopper—8/10•

they’re so cute oml, i shipped them since season 1 and their build-up and eventual payoff was immaculate! i loved their early season tension and their kiss in season 4 was so so good. they fit so well together. they don’t get 10/10 only because a) i LOVED bob and joyce in season 2 more than life and will forever mourn that joyous man and b) i kinda loved the whole single grumpy father figure/lonely teenage daughter dynamic el and hop had.

•lumax—10/10•

this ship. this goddamn ship. the hurt/comfort. the angst. the teasing. the SOULMATISM of it all. seriously, these two are meant for each other. lucas is max’s safe place, her happiest memory and her favourite escape. max is lucas’ sunshine, his wake-up call, his reason to try. i didn’t use to love them, in fact it was only since season 4 that i’ve been such an avid shipper of them but god. they really are the softest. ‘i like talking with you, mad max’ and ‘i’m still here’ and ‘lucas!’ and the notes and the snowball and holy shit i love them sm.

•byler—7/10•

this is with the exception of season 2 byler, which gets 10/10 (‘crazy together’ oh my god). apart from that, i get the hype for it, but i also want the best for my lil ball of fruity sunshine will byers. he is my baby boy and i will protect him. and i just think that mike needs to do some growing up before he’s ready to be with will. also, i’ve never loved mike as a character (again, with the exception of s1 and 2 mike, he was a sweetie) and i think he’d end up hurting will if they got together at this point. in the future, if mike can prove that he’s matured and grown into himself, i will wholeheartedly support this relationship.

•jancy—6/10•

again, it’s ok. i did love them in season 2, but season 1 jonathan was a creep, and season 3 jancy just didn’t do it for me. jonny boy has grown on me over the seasons, but i think everybody moved on from him taking nakey nakey pictures of nancy without her knowledge wayyyyy too quickly. also, they just want different things in life and that’s ok! i do prefer them over stancy, but if i’m honest, i am absolutely a lesbian nancy supporter. the comphet on that woman is insane. so again, like mileven, i am a nancy/jonathan exes-to-besties advocate!

•stancy—4/10•

they were not it in season 4. like, it made me angry that the duffers tried to push it on us again. i did sort of like them in the early seasons, but steve was a jerk and nancy needed to grow into herself and they went their separate ways for the better. steve became a good person and nancy became the strong, independent badass woman we all know and love. i love them as friends and co-babysitters of the kids, but not as lovers. their arcs wouldn’t have happened without their break-up, and they’re both so different as people that getting back together would’ve been like going backwards. steve’s speech about kids in the van made me physically ill with how a) out of character it was and b) how the duffer brothers tried to make it seem like pushing out 6 kids and living the suburban american dream (read: nightmare) was something nancy would want, when she’s spent 3 seasons displaying an obvious disgust for that kind of life. if they get back together in s5 i’ll be throwing something at the tv.

•elmax—9/10•

they. are. so. cute. i love this ship sm, it’s so wholesome and soft. it just works as well—el allows max to explore her own kindness, her own vulnerability, her own ability to care, and max allows el to explore her own identity, what makes her happy, how to be independent. season 3 elmax was superior, but that scene in s4 where they reunite is utterly breathtaking—‘if you touch her again, i will kill you again’ protective gfs!! honestly, if i wasn’t such a lumax shipper i’d be all in for them. as it is, my motto is currently this: max has two hands! one for el and one for lucas :)

•madwheeler—1/10•

no. just no. these two actively dislike each other lmao. max is perpetually annoyed by mike’s existence and mike thinks max is like, the worst. they couldn’t even do enemies to lovers because max would steal mike’s gf in a heartbeat and would probably rather eat glass than kiss michael wheeler. they only get 1 point because finn and sadie have a sweet friendship.

•eddsy—6/10•

they would’ve been cute tbh. and since it’s been discovered that chrissy is actually 18 instead of 16, it’s not a weird one either. when i thought she was 16 i was put off, but now i’m sort of neutral on it. that scene in the woods was very sweet and her and eddie totally could have had the whole popular cheerleader gf/metalhead nerdy bf thing going on. however, it was only one episode they were in together and the ship was never one i was like ‘oh my god i love this’ so. i will say that grace van dien does not deserve the hate she gets for shipping them, especially when joseph quinn gets none of it for the same thing. other than that, it’s not massively awesome but it’s pretty cute.

•willel—0/10•

if you ship this, seek help. they are siblings.

•henclair—4/10•

they could be cute ig, but i just see them as besties. add in the fact that lumax is one of my fav ships and dustin and suzie are super cute and this ship is just sort of meh to me.

•duzie—7/10•

very sweet. nerd gf/geek bf. ‘never-ending story’ was a cultural reset and they’re both icons for it. honestly, not a ship that rocked my world but they are super cute so. 7 points.

•rockie—7/10•

at this point i just want robin to have a gf. just let maya hawke kiss a woman on this show. at first, i was super excited for these 2, but then i saw the way miss buckley looked at nancy wheeler and i was like ‘vickie who?’ (i see you duffer brothers). also, vickie’s whole character felt like a diversity box tick. like she had no originality whatsoever, they just made her a carbon copy of robin which pissed me off. however, i see the potential. i would not be unhappy if they had a fleshed out, well-developed relationship in s5. especially since vickie, a bi girl, is being played by amybeth mcnulty, a bi queen.

•steddie—5/10•

ok. so. i don’t hate this ship. i really don’t. in fact, i’ve written them in some of my ronance fics. i think they could’ve been cute. however. they hype for these two was so overdone and the way people treated them in comparison to more fleshed out, developed dynamics like ronance was really annoying. especially because the majority of steddie shippers are straight women who then deny that ronance could ever happen. the ship itself was ok, but if i’m being realistic, they didn’t have that many scenes together and the fandom of this ship ruined it for me. the fact that the majority of fics in the ronance tag on ao3 are steddie with background ronance really grinds my fucking gears, and the amount of people who are fetishising steddie because they’re both attractive men is just so fucking irritating. overall, not a bad ship but a fairly toxic fandom (not all of you, of course—chill steddie shippers are cool, but some of y’all, jesus christ)

•harringrove—1/10•

awful, awful ship. no. don’t ship steve with the racist abuser just because they’re both semi-attractive white men. only gets a point because of joe keery’s fruity (not assuming his sexuality, just joking about his actions) behaviour towards dacre montgomery.

•stobin—0/10•

robin buckley. is. a LESBIAN. she’s GAY. SHE LIKES WOMEN AND WOMEN ONLY. if you ship these two romantically, i can only assume you’re a homophobic asshole who deserves sand thrown in their eyes. unapologetically, if you ship steve and robin as a couple, i hope you slip in the shower, motherfucker.

•stonathan—2/10•

i mean, it’s not the worst??? but again, i think it’s people shipping them just because they’re two white men who talked to each other. like, did y’all forget that steve literally called jonathan a slur? and that they tried to beat the shit out of each other? i don’t hate it the way i hate harringrove, but it’s so so unlikely and i’d be so puzzled if it ever was even hinted at.

•murray/alexei—6/10•

these two would’ve been cute. and i do think murray is gay, and probably did have a little thing for alexei. i don’t know about alexei but they were definitely cute friends. and i was so betrayed and upset by his death. a fairly good ship, no complaints from me.

and finally…

•ronance—1284028/10😌🥹😍•

the best ship. for nancy, for robin, for the show, for ever. they mean the world to me. they are the world to me. if i had one wish, it would be for ronance to be canon. they make me so fucking emotional because i want what they have. as someone who so heavily relates to robin (chaotic lonely lesbian who is desperate for love but feels she may never be loved as much as she loves, possibly autistic and feels destined to be an annoyance to those around her) i want a nancy. i want to be loved in my entirety. and those two, they get each other. sure, robin irritated nancy at first and they didn’t get on, but they grew. nancy, who’s never had anyone listen to her and believe in her with such intent, finds robin, who is more than willing to, who thinks ‘nancy’s a genius’ and would follow her anywhere. robin, who thinks all she can ever be is helpless and annoying, finds nancy, who trusts her with her life, who picks her and picks her and keeps picking her, who thinks she’s just as smart as she actually is, who understands her needs and her vulnerabilities and validates her, tells her ‘it’s ok’ and ‘you got this’. these two work in a way no other ship does and they are so undeniably soulmates. they need each other. they want each other. they deserve each other. there’s a reason i write about them so much—holy shit honestly i love them so fucking much.

anyways, that got a lot longer than i thought it would! i hope you guys enjoyed my ramblings haha :)

[strangerfigs]

every time I see a mileage fan say bylers hate eleven because we want byler to happen, and accuse us of misogyny, i just like lose brain cells?? like will literally had feelings for mike before el even entered the picture - this is CONFIRMED NOW?????? so how is it okay for El to date her brother’s life-long crush in this scenario? See? This argument has no logic to it because they only became siblings 8 months ago, and both of their dynamics with Mike were already ESTABLISHED before they became siblings. Neither of them should be restricted by the brother/sister labels in regards to Mike. It’s such a stupid argument. It is also so clear that Will does not want to hurt either of them and just wants them both to be happy??? CLEARLY, Mike also very much cares about El, and El cares about Mike and Will very much; and MIKE CARES ABOUT THEM VERY MUCH. Literally, no Byler wants El to be miserable and alone? Like, literally this argument just pisses me off more than anything. It’s misogynistic to imply that El is going to be miserable without Mike and needs his romantic love when she will literally be fine without his romantic love - like just because we think this doesn’t imply we want her to be alone and broken up with? Like, in fact, I WANT EL TO BREAK UP WITH MIKE! I think that would be the perfect outcome and I honestly could see it going that way.

Their relationship is so on the rocks. Mike obviously cares about her DEEPLY but they do not work together on a romantic level. We have seen this fall out twice now. El has proven to find her history/relatives (s2), identity (s3), and strength (s4) without Mike in any of these storylines lmfao. There is more to life than STUPID BOYS!!! like i don’t understand how disliking m*levens relationship and supporting Byler = wanting El to be miserable and unhappy like that’s so fucking misogynistic to think, tbh. Like she can be happy without a stupid boy because there is more to life than stupid boys.

El does deserve to be happy, but you know what’s not going to make her happy? Continuing to be called a SUPERHERO and idolized when the truth is, she cannot save everyone. Mike calling her a super hero and her failing to save 20+ people, Max being in a coma (unknown to wake up/unable to find her), probably made her feel even WORSE about losing because superheroes do not lose.

Also, literally El chooses her father as her HERO and Will chooses Alan Turning. Neither of these people were chosen for romantic reasons lol, and even in DC/MARVEL, none of the superhero/civilian relationships are played out this way.

Mike obviously cares deeply for her, and loves her, but the way in which he loves her is not the kind of love that she wants from him. Season 4 proves their relationship just doesn’t work, and wanting more for El than Mike does not make us “misogynistic”, sorry.

[thranduel]

“byler is so unfair because will is el’s brother and it will break el’s heart, byler shippers are so selfish”

first of all she’s been living with the byers for less than an entire year and mike and will have known each other since they were 4 years old. mike does not view will as “el’s brother”, he views him as his best friend. they had a relationship long before el came along and the only reason mike and el met was because HE WAS SEARCHING FOR WILL. will knew and loved mike first too. not that that automatically means he “belongs” to him because obviously he doesn’t. mike isn’t an object and he’s his own person, but i see so many mike and el shippers say things like “mike belongs to el. they dated first. you can’t take him away from her. will is getting in the way of them” and it’s just so weird and gross to me. like, mike is his own person outside of his relationship with el, and will loved him before el did so he’s not getting in the way. mike and will’s relationship is their own, they are NOT connected by el. cut the bullshit

also why do people think el will be heartbroken if she isn’t in a romantic relationship with mike? did we even watch season 3? she dumped mike and she looked the happiest she had ever been with max. she was actually learning to be independent, figure out what she likes ON HER OWN instead of being told or being rushed into a romantic relationship. this was one of my favourite el moments in the entire show. we actually got to see her have fun and discover herself. it was beautiful and it was so important for her character. even millie said she wants el to stand on her own two feet and not be dependant on the men in her life, so why do people get insulted or act like people hate el just because we don’t like mike and el being in a romantic relationship? are you joking? i think it actually shows that we care about her MORE by pointing out the flaws in their relationship that have been shown to actually hurt them and people around them. how many characters in the show have said something positive about their relationship? none. they’ve only confronted them, called them out and even encouraged them to break up. mike and el always lie to each other too. pretty weird considering their phrase is “friends don’t lie”. they also pretend to be people they’re not. mike changes, excludes all his friends and forces himself to focus on el which isn’t healthy or fair. el pretends to have friends and be popular because she’s afraid of what mike will think. and i don’t blame her for feeling that way but at this point if you can’t be yourself and talk to your partner, it’s not fair for anyone involved. the roller rink situation could’ve been prevented if she had just told the truth all along. and don’t even TRY bringing will into this, because it wasn’t his place or responsibility to tell mike about el’s struggles. he’s not their messenger. they should be honest with each other and communicate about their issues but they still can’t do that. even when el was upset, mike did nothing. how is this fair to anyone?

and for anyone acting like “will owes el because she saved him in season 1”, just stop. like yes, she helped find him in season 1 but only because the boys kept begging her to help. will wasn’t breathing and joyce and hopper were the ones who physically went in there and saved him. and this might sound harsh but will wouldn’t have needed saving in the first place if she didn’t open the gate. i know she didn’t intend to, but the reason for will getting kidnapped and taken to the upside down and traumatised was indirectly because of el. she started everything with vecna, with the demogorgon, with the gate. and to make things his worse for will, he has to watch the boy he loves start dating that same girl even though he loved him long before? on top of that he’s struggling with his sexuality in a time where being gay isn’t accepted so he can’t just “move on and find someone else”. i know el didn’t mean to do any of this but the point is that she did and no one acknowledges will’s trauma because of it and how he has that constant reminder every time he sees them together. so don’t EVER say “will is selfish, that’s his sister” or “will is getting in the way” or any other bullshit

and this isn’t a trauma competition. both will and el have experienced so many struggles that no one else understands. NO ONE should be comparing their trauma or fighting over who has suffered more. but i’m just pointing out how people are such hypocrites. they talk about how el is traumatised and act like that’s why she “deserves” mike more than will. it’s messed up

people also need to focus on the mike and el breakup and the byler fight scene in episode 3 because it reveals so much. when el dumped mike, she was happy. she was okay, she was able to grow and learn about herself which is what she needs. she had a friend by her side and they had fun together.

but when mike and will argued, it triggered an emotional breakdown for will. he had no one. his friends have been excluding him. he’s afraid the boy he loves will never love him back. his best friend and safe place that he’s known since he was a child has no time for him anymore. will was NOT okay. he was the complete opposite. and i’m not saying will needs to be in a romantic relationship with mike in order to be happy but he definitely needs his best friend in his life and he can’t do that if he’s in a relationship with el, because he completely changes who he is whenever she’s around. it’s not fair. and it’s not fair that will constantly has to watch that when this is the boy he’s loved most of his life

so don’t ever talk to me about selfish when you don’t even care about these characters as individual people. i love mike, will and el and i’ve been watching this show since i was a teenager. i know how to analyse character behaviour and what’s best for the characters and overall story. mike and el being in a romantic relationship isn’t good for them or anyone around them and we’ve seen it over and over again. mike and will have potential and build up and history and a genuine relationship that most other characters don’t have. there is a BIG difference. but just because we don’t like el in a romantic relationship with mike, that has nothing to do with her as an individual character. why are people only viewing her as mike’s girlfriend anyway and not her own person?

[byersfanclub]

so i want to piggyback (heh) off of this post by @scrunchietown , specifically the monologue bit and the reactions we get from will and why we even get a shot of jonathan (which goes into my theory that jonathan knows abt will and mikes feelings for each other and why he’s important to byler outside of his own character arc too)

will’s reaction and finally knowing what mike couldn’t say all of the time they’re together in s4 is so important to bylers story because will is getting told this vague explanation from mike, who won’t outright say the thing he can’t say to el. not only do they have this talk once, not twice but THREE times goes to show how important this is for will to finally understand. will has been trying to save mike and el’s relationship every single time, because as much as it wouldn’t be satisfying for an audience member (or a byler i should say) will would rather mike stay his friend forever and see him happy than to lose him by confessing his feelings. but when mike has been pushing back every single time about this conversation, “a fight you cant come back from”, “i didnt know what to say” “im just some random nerd who got lucky superman landed on his doorstep” basically what mike won’t say makes him scared el won’t need him anymore. NEED. which sounds… a lot more like a caretaker, parent, sibling thing rather than someone who has romantic love for you would say. will can’t understand what is so important and crucial to mike and el’s relationship that he can’t say because he already assumes mike and el are in love with each other.

“what if they don’t like the truth?”

mike NODS along to this, he doesn’t deny this, he agrees that el may not like the truth.

will is hurt and confused when he hears what mike wasn’t telling el… but why does jonathan come into frame? a bit odd that they not only included will having a solo shot in mikes love confession, but they gave jonathan a solo shot as well (but not argyle?)

because jonathan has been watching byler interact all of season 4. he watched the way mike didn’t hug will, he watched will lie about the painting, he watched will mope over mike, he watched mike and will have a heart to heart for however long before interrupting, he barged in on their 2nd heart to heart, he watched mike and will the entire van ride AND the van scene— so if they’re giving jonathan a solo shot? what is it supposed to mean? what is the reasoning behind it? is it because will and jonathan just had their own heart to heart and he feels bad for will? partly… but that doesn’t really make sense from a storytelling perspective, if anything smth like what robin did to steve when jonathan and nancy reunited would have been more fitting if that were the case.

jonathan and will having a solo shot within mike’s monologue is meant to make you think, it’s meant to show insincerity because a love confession should be private and not in a high stakes situation. jonathan may feel bad for will, but he also knows mike isn’t telling the truth or that somethingjust isn’t right with this situation. (imo because i believe jonathan has clocked that mike likes will back)

considering the fact that will and jonathans heart to hearts wasn’t even MEANT to happen as well, says so much about the monologue scene if that conversation never made it into the show. 🧐🧐🧐

in conclusion, jonathan ships byler.