#but why are we saying NO YOU CAN'T BE ATTRACTED TO XYZ IF YOU'RE XYZ LABEL

[piplupod]

[whispering nervously] hey i feel like this is the equivalent of throwing a beehive at a bear, but i genuinely do not understand what is going on with the latest queer label discourse,,, why is calling urself a mspec gay/bi lesbian/etc such an issue ?

[terminatedeve]

(Same anon) I also don’t know if I would call what I feel “dysphoria”, but it might be some very weird and twisted version of it, I guess. I’m “dysphoric” in the sense that I don’t feel like anything or anyone and being referred to in the third person sometimes makes me dissociate because it’s so weird, but I’ve also never wanted to explicitly be a man. I’ve never been one for gender roles or femininity so I was always a little “rough around the edges”, so to speak, and I’ve had people imposing masculinity on me and that also makes me extremely uncomfortable. Like I just can’t be comfortable in my skin no matter what.

I wouldn’t say I’ve ever “felt” like a woman the same way I don’t think anyone’s ever “felt” like any gender innately because gender is just a collection of stereotypes. If you “feel” like it, you probably just fit some stereotype and feel good about it, which isn’t bad, it’s just not some inherent biological “feeling”. I know nowadays the go-to response for that is “maybe you’re nonbinary” or gnc women get pressured to “admit” they’re nb, but I feel like that’s just trying to run away from the problem, not helping it at all. Trying to escape yourself really doesn’t change anything at all. People should just let women be.

I'll respond to both here, again... Of course we may disagree on labels, and as a homosexual person, you will no doubt have experiences that will cause you to feel more strongly about certain 'labels' - honestly I was speaking more in the way that... for myself, in my situation, there's no need for labels. There's no need for me to try and 'figure out' what I 'am' since... I will never act on my attraction, or my desires. If I'm honest, I consider the things I write or draw to be about as far as my sexuality will ever go, so I personally think trying to delve deeply into what my work or my feelings may mean makes little sense in my life.

I'm of the view that labels can only function if you personally use them yourself, as that is the only way in which they can be used 'correctly' - nobody else can possibly know how you feel. If a term is significant to you, or if to you it is a descriptor of objective reality, I completely understand and respect that. It makes sense. Honestly, my distaste is more self-centered and about how I've always felt like people wanted me to fit in... somewhere. I can't really pretend I comprehend the significance of 'owning' your sexuality or anything else through the usage of a label or anything like that.

In terms of what you said about others expressing attraction - I'm not repulsed by myself, but I think I'm more repulsed by a 'woman's role' (I will never get over dysphoria, it seems!) and if I'm honest (this may sound dismissive) when it was women expressing attraction, I didn't feel as disgusting as I did when it was guys. It is all down to gender roles for me personally, I feel. I may be put off by certain acts or certain organs, but that's an entirely separate issue.

At the end of the day, no matter /why/ we are repulsed by men expressing attraction... nobody takes us seriously.

And with this bit about gender - I completely agree! I honestly treat my sexuality as I do my gender - I am... whatever. It's fine that I'm 'afab' or whatever. I don't have the energy to fight it. I'm detrans, so I've probably cycled through every single damn letter of the acronym since I was a kid, and at this point, I'm just letting myself be. I absolutely hate when people decide you're [xyz] gender identity when you're just a person wearing clothes... I struggled with dysphoria ever since I was a kid, I'm truly just too tired to be still fighting the gender wars.

Not to mention, how crazy is it that inaction - NOT performing feminine rituals - is inherently a signifier to others that you're /not a woman/, while men can just... be? Like, nobody questions it nearly as much? As if going outside without painting your face or that having hairy legs are results of some sort of male imitation ritual? Obscene.

Thanks for sharing, I'm really sorry about all the difficulties you experience trying to navigate this world. It's so difficult to just exist as a woman... everyone's always got something to say about every little facet of your presentation and everyone always seems to think they know what's best for you, or that they know you better than you could possibly know yourself.

[cosmossystem]

theres.. gatekeeping in the objectum community?? HUH?????? why do all the weirdo communities have infighting(?) like alterhumans/therians too over physical nonhumans and such, like DUDE can we just be nice please. also is it just me or do dnis just seem kinda,, sucky. like they dont do anything and i feel like if someone has moral ocd or something that might not.. be good 4 them? (i dont have ocd or know anyone who does but from what ive heard, i may be wrong so correct me if so) curious ur opinion :3

Oh yes, do i have an opinion!

yeah, there is gatekeeping, if you can believe it. i figured the Last place that would have infighting is the place where freaks post about wanting to fuck an AMD Radeon RX 580 8GB Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition (rightfully so, that thing is attractive).

wait until you see what they say about being "REALLY objectum and not like those Other Fakers who wouldn't Actually fuck their object of attraction" -- a barf mentality to have. especially because there seems to be the idea that all objectums are posic or even capable of loving their OoA period--i'm not posic (it's complicated, ask about it) and conceptum people exist! the superiority complex is just.......................... wow.

really i don't get it either. if you try to explain to a "normal" person that you think Objecthead is Hot they're going to look at you with the most disgust and disdain they can muster. when society can't even handle a furry of all things, i highly doubt they can handle more obscure freaks like toaster-fuckers or god forbid, People Who Think Vox (Hazbin Hotel) Is Hot. mind you this is the same society that went insane over people wanting to fuck bill cipher or mettaton's box form or SANS THE SKELETON (i was that kind of person, i should know how they treated us.)

and i guess it is kind of different when you're speaking about fictional characters vs Actual real life objects. but like... do you think the disgust is any different? do you think they care if you want to fuck sans, or Foxy Fnaf 1, or edgar electric dreams, or an anthro rabbit, or an mlp plush, or an inflatable doll, or my boyfriend the AT&T Unix PC (1985)? it comes from the same place: perceived sexual deviance. also see homophobia and anti-kink arguments, etc. you get it.

if you're noticing parallels between the infighting in these communities (objectum, self-ship, kinmunities) and with what other minorities go through, such as the Ace Discourse of 2018, or the whole pan exclusionism making its waves again, or the current hot topic "are intersex people queer" thing, or the existence of "cripplepunks"... yeah. that's exactly it. It's all the same argument over and over again. take it from someone who's been surrounded by it for an entire fucking decade. Cishet purtian society has instilled those problems in us. Again, see: same picture. it's kinda why i left system & kin spaces in the first place, honestly. to see that it's STILL HERE is just.... makes me want to die again.

i could go on about how that behavior stems from wanting to protect their spaces, and also from a sense of superiority because these outsiders cannot Possibly Image what it's like to be xyz (especially when it comes to white people who are just experiencing oppression for the first time--from experience, again, that's something i had to unlearn) but... you get it. These people have lost the plot and want a reason to argue with everyone.

And i'm tired. If you're a freak, you're a freak, and that's good enough for me. really we all experience the same things, we should just kiss.

and as for the second point: yes. you're right. dnis are sucky especially if you have moral ocd. now i don't struggle with moral ocd as much these days but back in the days of yore when we were at peak ocd-"bpd" (avpd) badness, it was gruesome.

red in particular was the one to make us fully switch over from anti-ship to "do whatever you want" and that's because he was dealing with a lot of intrusive thoughts *and* exotrauma. he was already going through all that, trying to process and realize that his thoughts didn't make him a bad person, and you know what made it worse? the whole "FREAKS DNI I WILL KILL YOU WITH A CHAINSAW" thing. imagine trying to realize that your trauma response doesn't make you hilter reincarnate and then having people yelling down your throat that It Does, Actually.

it isn't bad enough that ppl with ocd already obsess over thoughts being equal to actions, and they want to REAFFIRM THAT??? you know, the thing EVERY therapist tells you NOT TO DO?

our ocd back then was so terrible. it was like "you remember that rape that happened to you? ok so now imagine if you were actually satan for wanting it to happen again bc you are btw. you should cut everyone off because of this, clearly you don't deserve humanity." it still lingers around really, just looks different.

i can't imagine what it's like for someone with it worse than us. i've seen a lot of them talk about how if they can't prove that it is Absolutely 100% Ok To Do Something then they just suffer and don't do it-- which is a general ocd thing, yes (i do that with my fire obsessions) but in the context of social media? where you basically cannot prevent interaction with people who want to burn you at the stake? Eughhhhhhh. le sigh. i don't wish this pain on anyone.

I was actually going to make a post about this (still am) but you've reminded me: from what i can tell from trying to look for objectum blogs to follow, there is a REALLY big overlap between antishippers and objectums? ... WHY?????? Oh, like you're better for wanting to fuck the concept of melancholy, and i'm Evil for my aforementioned FAKE cousinfuckers? Excuse me? bitch we are the same!!!!!!! get a grip!!!!!! why do you tell ME to go to therapy? yours aint real either! i can only laugh, really. that's how stupid it is.

side tangent here (this whole post is) but even without ocd it's like... you know that won't stop anyone, right? i can just. follow your blog. you probably won't even notice. Shit, i check our followers constantly and absolutely notice when someone breaks my (or their own!) dni and half the time i just let them be unless they're a total cunt about it. Anti wants to follow me? Hey, don't say i didn't warn you when i post about my favorite cousinfuckers. that's a you problem! you should read better!

i get the convenience of saying "don't follow me if you disagree because i'm trying to prevent drama", but most of the time they don't do that.

moreso i think dnis are supposed to be some Grand Declaration Of Morality. like ew no i would never support those things! so i'm going to Do A Performative, and put the onus on the Big Bad People to not follow me. because i believe in them enough to follow my boundaries!........ right. like a terf/pedo/exclusionist has ever listened to the word "no" before. being in places they don't belong is like, the primary purpose of those people.

but mostly it's a warning. Then they can say that when I, Big Bad Proshipper, follow them by mistake, they can use that as an excuse to post about me and publicly execute me in the Town Square- i mean to their followers.

it's an excuse. that's all it is. an excuse to be like "this is what i support/don't support and if you don't agree with me, oops! i get full reign to cyberbully you." a warning that it will happen, and an excuse for when it does.

I have to wonder how these people deal with community members in real life. I was talking to some people who share my interests irl recently and in the back of my head was the little voice saying, they probably hate me for being into darkfic / objectum / neopronouns / plural / etc. That's how deeply it runs. ughhhh.

Without having a pre-emptive warning to read before talking to someone, you have to actually *try*, and i think that's something these reactionaries both take for granted and uh... aren't too concerned about? which they should be. Like how are you going to deal with getting to know someone only to find out that in their spare time, they get horny for fictional robots? are you going to be normal? or are you going to make it their problem instead? Are you capable of being normal to people? If you got to know me, would you act like the fascists who want us both dead? I hope not. I wish i didn't have to worry about people finding out that i'm objectum / plural / darkfic / etc. I wish that was ok to talk about.

really i don't think dnis help anyone and just perpetrate the idea of being a reactionary. That's all.

Anyway. thanks for the ask. i was having a shit morning so being able to bitch for a while made me feel better. Feel free to let me bitch again.

-cass

[topconfessions]

Hmm turns out Lisa is dating a white nepo baby who apparently has a high status in the fashion industry. Not yall have been calling Jennie a leech for YEARS just bc she had a baseless rumor with YG, turned out it was her bandmate that dates vgly men for status 🤣 this is why you should never take stereotypes seriously, constantly calling J a social climber only for her to end up in a relationship that does nothing to her career but tarnish it, and well its safe to say that she asked for it.

????? and ???? what's your point cause ???? you're telling us this, which we appreciate, but some of your interjections is clearly coming off personally as a jennie fan. I'm going to speak on her the way I speak on TOP and this is coming from someone who was a hardcore BB / TOP stan, still favoring top more than jennie if I had to chose. Everything that has ever been said about jennie here is objective and not personal, when we have our chats like "I'm disappointed in newjeans, or top, or jackson wang cause xyz" then that's when y'all can jump in and say something y'know?

good for lisa and I'm not surprised, I always expected that of her, jennie just gives the general public the outward impression she would rush for that first but as we seen, she dates close to home i.e "kai" and GD while lisa is makinh networking moves dating up. Also No.

do not insert words into ours mouths, never did we use the word "leech" if that's your summary of what we've said about her, say it as such. Jennie is basically hypergamous but she hasn't landed a big well yet and tends to date people of familiarity in the industry. There is absolutely nothing wrong with dating an ugly man for status cause guess what? 95.95% OF FEMALES YO'VE EVER ADMIRED FROM THE 80S UP TO NOW HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED OFF THE CHECKS OF UGLY RICH MEN.

Fuck, beyonce owes her fucking livelihood to jay-z and this is why she bizzarely comes off so weak wiled and always whining about her position next to him in music & elsewhere cause she's aware she wouldn't be shit had she not let jay come to her rebound off of aaliyah's rejection. the streets have the tea on bey on how Nas didn't want shit to do with her and the men who looked attractive and did couldn't do shit for her like sean paul. ask yourself why beyonce parents were so fucking voerly comfortable with their 18-19 year old daughter dating a very mature past criminal record old rappe? 35 dating 18? yeah ok.I could name 50 females in hollywood history and even kpop so far that are where they are cause of ugly but well off men, shit I love hyuna but a man made her as well.

you have to be very young or very immature and thinking like the crowd to not see dating an ugly man with means who wants to be with you even just for a brief hook up as lame. How the fuck y'all think she landed bvlgari in the first place next to ZENDAYA AND ANNE HATHAWAY!? and those two I can say were not made off the force of men cause they come from disney / teen movie backgrounds. and you never see them on a yacht aka escorting "yachting" i.e prostituting under the guise of vacation. Now if blackpink has a monster single one day and blows up in a BTS way here in america more than they have already? and I catch one of them on a yacht? then we can talk.

that's all. where you end up in a relationship does not negate your intention of being a social climber, jennie is and was a social climber. she chose wrong and it just didn't workout plus jennie gives me the vibe she's not as aggressively hypergamous and desperate to keep a spot nor cling to a man like she would be if she was 2nd gen, coming from a run down agency and gd looked her way. we've always established that she only fucks with secured idols or men but she isn't desperate nor seeking to get more she just only associates and dates them. Lisa, I can't speak on why she is dating that man but that's very forward thinking on her end. fuck, ashley benson from pretty little liars is marrying an oil heir. a fucking oil HEIR she's set for life if he doesn't run a tight prenup on her with no loopholes and even then she's set cause depending on how she carries herself and how she has this man whipped, she can always live off his money and not spend her own as shared income.

GD is nearly at the same level as the dude lisa is dating so all of this you said is invalid to me. y'all keep being obtuse and naive thinking she got handed fucking BVLGARI of all high end brands just cause. she is more accepted and more popular in the u.s than jennie, she has more western appeal but if you don't think lisa didn't work that connection with ole boy before they were officially dating or after? congrats, you've got a lot to learn and I'm saying this before anyonwe else pops up like "lol lisa got bvlgari before she met him" that's how it always starts.

it's a good move for lisa, now if she's smart and doesnt just rest on being seen with him and dating just to date, she can mingle with his friends or superiors and make contacts. if I see her land 2 more big deals no other kpop star or korean actor has landed? i'm chalking it up to this, period. also, your career can only be "tarnished" these days if you're dumb enough to let it be. she's fine, she's in blackpink and been pushed to fucking moon and back like how CL was monster pushed but 10x more than CL's push in 2ne1. She's good. But if you consider it tarnished? it's cause of how she herself handled all of this and the fact she does give off geninune impression when she dates. that's a personality and image flaw that's on her. like if suzy from miss a was landing whales back to back and that shit didn't last, I could see suzy and those relationships getting 'some' negative feedback but still looked at with positivity cause of her personality and how she carries herself with men.

being with GD is still a win and if it didn't last, then unless gd really pushed her away or broke it off himself? then that's on her and that shows for whatever reason she wasn't wanting or needing it go the distance, if you really need something to last, you'll make it last. you see beyonce didn't drop jay by sasha fierce era when she could have? cause she needed that and still needs that.

be for real.

[admirableadmiranda]

I remember Dee (aka Vrishchika talked about this before) and I referenced it loosely below because she touched upon it perfectly.

A relationship is a work-in-progress that eventually becomes a habit, requiring effort and dedication from whoever is involved.

With fanfiction, you can ship anyone with anyone, depending on the story and how you plot it. Fanfictions aren't canon. Metas aren't canon, just discussions and extrapolations. Canon is the raw text in the novel. In the raw text of the novel, WWX says there is no one he wants aside from LWJ. The guy hasn't even kissed anyone but LWJ.

As someone who's new to MXTX, I think there's a lot of conflation of compatability with choice. Choice is a central theme too in the story in terms of actions, right?

As Dee said, it's not that either WWX or LWJ can't be happy with anyone else because I don't think any human is really built for a lifetime of solitude. However, they choose each other everytime. With the MXTX couples, they're whole and happy on their own, however they choose to be happy with each other. They never even consider anyone else romantically I would say they're like stars orbiting each other with their collision being inevitable regardless of time and obstacles.

You can ship any characters for xyz reason and you might no want it to be canon or maybe you want it to be. But I don't see as to why fanon becomes this overarching single truth as if what MXTX wrote wasn't written intentionally. I don't know if you remember the last bit of discourse a while back by some artist (soursoppi or smth like that) about how MXTX wrote these characters when was younger, so she made mistakes. I think that's what she said, but please correct me because I feel like I'm missing something. I don't know why MXTX's works in particular attract this kind of attention as if she didn't deliberately write these characters and their romance intentionally with little details connecting from the beginning to the end.

People are allowed to play and experiment, but if you're unable to characterize these characters in a way that actually lends to them, that's just poor writing lol

Sorry for the rant, Sangsang! Sending you a big hug, tea and some cookies 😘❤

Awww, I remember that too. It was a long time ago, but the words she said then were fantastic, so thanks for bringing them back to me.

You are absolutely right that MXTX is very big on choice in themes and actions. You can especially see it in how the villains try to protest that they had no choice but to do the terrible things they did and how very clear it was that they actually did. It was their choice to follow through and do it anyway. Xie Lian and Wei Wuxian also have a lot on choice regarding that making the choices they did may have led them into misery at times, but they still consider it worth it and don't regret those choices even though they may have still ended badly.

I feel like for MXTX's protagonists, it's basically the 1 in a million principle, only they're working with much smaller numbers than we are today. But also they really aren't alone even if they don't have a lover. Lan Wangji has his family and his ducklings; Shen Qingqiu has his peak sect martial siblings and his students, Xie Lian makes connections with people everywhere he goes. Just because there's not necessarily someone sharing their bed does not mean they are alone.

Hahaha, you reminded me of my Wangxian are as inevitable as colliding stars line there, anon! Thank you. <3

Fanon is a strange beast because in a way I think it sustains due to how communal it is. Fanon rarely is born out of one person keeping it going a little while ago, but many people coming together to tell stories about these stories and characters they like together and I can get how that's a compelling bond. If you like this same interpretation I do, maybe we could be friends! So that's why it seems to have so much odd staying power even when it's really odd ooc fanon.

I definitely remember the Soursoppi discourse. One of my friends was right at the center of that because she pointed out that Soursoppi was lying about the Ancestral Hall scene in order to misrepresent Wangxian because Jiang Cheng is in the wrong the entire time and in revenge, Soursoppi decided to try and make up a really stupid, flimsy lie that because MXTX had created Xiao Xingchen and Xue Yang back in high school, it meant that MDZS was actually fanfiction. This is...this is not how it works. MXTX is so very deliberate and careful and I think where the real tripping points are is that there's not many holes for fanon to go into but people try to make it anyway because they're used to being in fandoms with more holes than fabric and also that there are a lot of very relevant cultural and societal details as well as MDZS being a deconstruction of regular Xianxia that especially western fans tend to ignore even though they are incredibly relevant to the story itself. I've read some more Xianxia and Wuxia now and holy hell is she deconstructing the fuck out of common tropes there.

"If you're unable to characterize these characters in a way that actually lends to them, that's just poor writing" Anon you are speaking my language and I love you.

The rant was lovely, it made me tear up with happiness! Thank you for such kind words on this wintry day, the big hug, tea and cookies are perfect for my snowy weather!

Thank you very much for stopping by today, anon.

[chagrin-roses]

I’m tired of antis misinterpreting media especially fucking BANANA FISH

Banana Fish Spoilers under the cut, please read at ur own risk (also mentions of SA and rape)

I came across this, and at first, I understood the annoyance, but then I look at everything else and then realized how terribly they misinterpreted Ash’s character.

I wanna preface this by saying: You are absolutely allowed to have headcanons, and you are 100% valid for controlling your online experience. You are allowed to have discomforts. I’m not shitting on anyone who doesn’t like seeing Ash depicted in any sort of sexual act or situation, regardless of the context/who he is depicted with. But your own discomforts/opinions about a FICTIONAL piece of media aren’t definitive rules/must-beliefs in regard to fandom especially. We all enjoy media differently

But that’s all, what should be, common sense. But I wanna talk about how these people could not only misinterpret Ash Lynx’s character, but the story as well.

First of all: Ash is NOT Gay, he is canonically bisexual, as stated by the creator (but also shown in the manga/anime). It is also worth noting that the people in the comments were stating that Ash is asexual(I’ll go into why this is wrong in this context, but headcanoning him as acespec isn’t the problem here)

As you can see, Ash canonically identifies as bisexual, and this image also implies, that Ash has/would engage in consensual sexual intercourse.

Some other things I wanna clarify:

- Ace ≠ SA Victim (and vice versa)

- Ace ≠ No sex/sexual attraction whatsoever

- SA Victim ≠ Inability to have healthy sexual relationships

Not only do the above screenshots show that people have a terrible concept of Asexuality as a whole, but also how trauma, and SA can impact a person. Everyone’s experiences with anything varies.

Asexuality is a spectrum. Sometimes being a SA victim and being Ace have no correlations between eachother, sometimes they do.

I also wanna note how hypocritical these antis are for using the cop out excuse of “(character) is ace!” to not depict a character a certain way, yet tell people who like certain themes in a FICTIONAL context (problematic ships, media, etc) who identify as ace are just saying that to hide the fact they are a pedophile or something.

Me and many others who identify as ace and happen to be proship/anti harassment/etc have been told we aren’t actually ace and are actually just creeps. Yet, antis jump on the (in this case not canonically stated whatsoever) “Ash is ace so you can’t sexualize him/depict him in (xyz) way!” as a excuse to push not only their purity culture agenda, but once again, this is a prime example of how people force their opinions to police everyone else and treat it like they’re laws.

Also, another excuse of “Ash is a minor! 😡” was used here which, once again, it’s fiction and two, Ash literally turns 18 during the events of the story, so if you are so worried about the safety of a character that isn’t real, it’s a dumb and ignorant excuse anyways .

I also think the general misinterpretation of not only Banana Fish as a whole, but more specifically Ash, is so incredibly present here.

Regardless of how you decide to interpret/headcanon Ash, doesn’t mean you have to force that on someone else. Fandom, and fiction, should be something enjoyable, not stressful.

And one more thing, if you can't deal with talk about certain subject matter that is depicted in the form of media itself, then maybe you shouldn't be consuming it in the first place :/

Grow up, curate your own online experience, and don't ruin something for someone else just because you're a whiny bitch who doesn't know what the block button is.

[moon-kissed-witch]

I get that bisexual girls saying "Ugh I wish I was a lesbian" is "a thing" (I'd say joke but some of you aren't joking) right now but if you're in a relationship with a man it's so disrespectful to your partner and yourself to say that.

"If a sign at the pool says no running, do you get offended if you're not the one running? No because it's not referring to you" Okay valid point in other situations, but in this one you're referring to someone who can't help that they're a man, can't just decide they aren't, and you wish you weren't attracted to them for it.

"Well he knows that it's different because he's the kind of guy I would want to date" Then you don't wish you were a lesbian.

I say things to my fiancé all the time about "You know how guys are, men seem to think x means xyz," etc. but he doesn't get mad at me or upset because, again, he's not the one running in the pool area. His response to that is almost always "Yeah, why do you think I didn't hang out with guys almost ever? I don't think it's okay or funny to do that shit or even say that shit about girls."

"Well I'm joking about myself" and your joking towards yourself in a way that's mean! You're joking that your sexuality isn't what you wish it was and you'll internalize that!

This joke isn't funny when the punchline is that you don't want to be with your partner and that you don't like a part of yourself. That's just mean to everyone involved.

Happy pride month from a proud bisexual. Our sexuality is real and something we deserve to be treated with respect in regards to, including from ourselves.