#consider how different this is from dick calling tim when jack drake gets murdered (and also the ways the problem is the same!!)

[silverwhittlingknife]

Dick at Janet Drake's funeral

Dick (internally): The cruel fates, the Greeks called them. The three sisters weaving the loom of life, spinning its golden threads into the years - cutting it whenever the whim took them. Stupid! But I guess we all need something to help us make sense of it all. We need to find meaning in the pain…patterns in the chaos. Tim needs it now, as I once did. As Bruce did before me. So why do we make our faces into masks? Why do we hide the pain we all feel? Tim: Thanks for coming, Dick. I know how busy - (They shake hands.) Dick: It was the least I could do, Tim. Believe me - I know what you're going through. If you need any help, any time - Tim (looking down): I appreciate that. But... I'll cope. (In the background, we see Tim shaking somebody else's hand.) Dick to Bruce: He's a brave kid. He's in control. Bruce: Yes. Dick: You know what comes next, don't you? - Batman 455 (Christmas Eve, the day before Tim officially becomes Robin)

[forestlingincorporated]

I wanna talk about Janet Drake

I’m not against exaggeratedly evil versions of Tim’s parents, tbh. It’s fanfiction, if we can depict an Exaggeratedly Good version of Bruce (which we can, and I do, and I love) then we can depict the Drakes as Exaggeratedly Bad. As someone who personally identifies with Tim, and his brand of complicated parental abuse in particular, I find it cathartic to uncomplicate that abuse and rescue him from the Obviously Evil Bad People. 

That said, since much of comics lore is passed down word of mouth, the oral tradition surrounding Tim has developed this idea of Janet as The Worse Parent between her and Jack that was never really present in the comics. We see much LESS of Janet, and we have 20 years worth of comics depicting Jack as a neglectful hotheaded idiot who ultimate does love his son. More importantly, Jack isn’t very much LIKE Tim, so there is a habit to attribute Tim’s traits to his mother... and, as someone who really really identifies with Tim, Tim has... some negative traits. Tim can be a bitch sometimes. He’s fiercely intelligent and sweet and kind, with a strong sense of justice, but he can be cold and judgmental and unthinking - he fights those traits, but he does have them. 

And it is perfectly fine to depict Janet that way. I’ve enjoyed depictions of Cold Calculating Janet Drake, but it’s not the ONLY option, and I want to challenge fans to consider different avenues. Tim could pick up these traits from anywhere: a nanny, Mrs. Mc Ilvaine (”Mrs. Mac”), a teacher, tv, Sherlock Holmes novels, Bruce Wayne himself. Tim is capable of not being like EITHER parent. 

So, what do we KNOW about Janet? (I’ll also touch on Jack, but only in scenes he appears with Janet.) 

When Janet was first introduced she was depicted as a gentle but “modern” woman. This was written in 1989, told by a 13 year old Tim, so this theoretically was meant to take place in 1979. I’m not here to give a lecture on the history of sex discrimination in the united states, but much of the legislation protecting women in the workforce or surrounding women’s bodily autonomy would have been very very new in this initial depiction. 

Here, Janet is shown to be encouraging, emotional, maternal, and projects her own feelings onto Tim. Jack is shown to be slightly sexist, possibly discouraging, but not overbearing. And the artist is shown not to know how to draw children. 

To insert some speculation, I think it’s important to note all the Drakes witnessed a terrible murder/accident that day. I point this out, because this is the last time Jack and Janet are depicted this way. It’s possible they changed as a result of this event specifically. 

However, this is also a story being told by Tim. It’s also possible these events aren’t really “real” at all, and Tim is misremembering what his parents were like as a three-year-old, possibly projecting a more palatable version of his parents into the narrative. This is entirely up to personal interpretation. 

In fact, the Drakes are shown in Legend of the Dark Knight attending Haly’s Circus, and the artist knows what a toddler looks like and they’re depicted as already having a slightly strained relationship. Jack is clearly on the defensive, and Janet seems to be passive-aggressive, though she could just be attempting to explain the situation to her toddler honestly. The intended tone isn’t especially clear. 

I do want to point out, in this depiction, Tim isn’t being carried like he was in the previous one. He’s walking ahead of his parents, which isn’t a terrible horrible crime, but could be dangerous in a crowded place like the circus. Might be a subtle hint to his parents overall neglect. 

Back to A Lonely Place of Dying, in Tim’s memories of the night he discovered Robin and Dick Grayson were the same person at nine-years-old, his parents are home, and watching TV together while Tim played... trucks, idk, in the living room with them. (This is semi-interesting, because you could say “oh, Tim liked vehicle toys as a kid” or you could extrapolate that this is another subtle indication of Jack’s sexism, providing Tim with appropriately “boy toys.” Either interpretation is valid. If Tim was assigned female at birth, would they have been given “girl toys,” or allowed to play with whatever they wanted?) 

This is, to my knowledge, the only panel of the Drakes when Tim is between ages 3 and 13. They’re all together, which might indicate that the Drakes were home more often when Tim was 9, only later going on business trips when Tim was “old enough” but... 

This is Tim’s boarding school when he’s 13. While most boarding schools in the US are for grades 9-12, Tim is clearly not a freshman at age 13; look how much younger the other kids in this panel are. In the US, the youngest you can attend most boarding schools is 7. 

That means Tim could have begun going to boarding school anytime between 7 and 13. He most likely spent all of middle school in boarding school, at least. There are an almost infinite number of possible ways the Drakes handled having a business that required lots of international travel, an archeology hobby, AND a very young child. Janet staying home until Tim was 7, 11, 13, is equally possible as the Drakes having a nanny until 7, 11, 13. Tim just doesn’t talk about that period of his life very much.

(”What about Mrs. Mac?” - it is unclear when Mrs. Mac begins working for the Drakes. We only see her when Jack comes out of his coma. She could either be a long standing staff member, or a recent hire.) 

Note: I’ve seen it said that it’s canon that “According to Tim, when his parents were home, they made a point to try and include him in their activities, bringing him along to events that were normally adults only.” I have never seen this panel, or I don’t remember it, so I cannot confirm, but I also cannot debunk this because... comics. 

By the time Tim is 13, Jack and Janet are away on business trips a lot, with limited communication, and no firm return date. If I’m feeling generous, I’d say it was harder to communicate internationally in 1990 than it is today. If I’m not feeling generous, I’d say the Drakes are extremely wealthy, and international communication was easier than ever before in the 80s and 90s. They’re not even going home to see Tim in a week or two, they’re going home and calling Tim at boarding school in a week or two. 

Even Bruce thinks its weird, though he doesn’t say so to Tim’s face. It’s written almost as if Tim’s parents’ neglect was meant to be a plot point that just got forgotten about. 

Tim’s parents are fighting at this point (their poor assistant), but Janet still goes with Jack on these business trips. And she’s clearly involved in the business, somehow, but the comics never SAY what Janet’s JOB is. We’re told Jack is the exec, but Janet is ONLY ever referred to as Jack’s wife, though they’re later described as the “heads” of the company, plural. 

Just to be clear, this is Jack’s business. There’s a perception that Jack is a bad business man because he and Janet fight over company decisions, and Jack looses the business after Janet dies, but Jack looses the company YEARS after Janet dies, and maintains it for about a year after No Man’s Land at that. We’re not told how Jack looses the business, but he’s got to be doing something right. Janet isn’t necessarily the “real brains” of Drake Industries. 

And I’m not... gonna... touch the... exploitation and racism because... I’m not qualified to do that. But, here’s the panel. The Drakes sure seem exploitative and racist in their business decisions. Someone else can... analyze that with more nuance. 

Regardless how how long they’ve been fighting, when their lives are in danger, the Drakes fall back into a loving husband and wife. Their marriage may be falling apart, but they do care about each other. 

I want to show these panels because it shows that Tim and Jack do have things in common. They’re both level headed in a crisis and can be somewhat cold in their practicality. Janet meanwhile and silent. Jack is later willing rant and rave at their captors, but Janet remains silent. 

That is, until they’re alone, and she finally lets herself fall apart. 

God, Jack can be obnoxious. Janet just looks miserable and resigned. I actually think Tim takes after his parents in this respect in equal measure. Tim can have a temper, but he can also be fairly melancholy and defeatist. 

Jack keeps reminding Janet to be strong and in control, which could be period typical sexism? But Jack seems so practiced and ready with the words of encouragement, and with Tim’s history with depression, I wonder if Janet has an inclination towards it as well. 

As the end approaches, when Jack brings up Tim, Janet seems to have a lot of regret. She talks about “wasting” the good things, and I don’t think it’s too big of a stretch to assume she’s talking about time spent with her only child. 

From this point on, Janet is at times spoken of, but not seen. Like here, when Jack says Janet wouldn’t approve of him and Tim being so “far apart.” He says this after he tells him he takes back his threat to send him back to boarding school, which might imply Janet was against the idea of boarding school? Though she obviously lost that argument when she was alive. 

Jack will of course renege on this later, but that’s Jack Drake for you. 

Or here in Tim’s illness induced dream, where he gets everything he wants. Though, since this is a fantasy of Tim’s, where his father and girlfriend are both more accepting and understanding than they are in real life, I would take this depiction of Janet with a grain of salt. 

After loosing Drake Industries, Jack thinks about Janet (though, they call her Catherine/Cathy for some fucking reason) during his depressive episode. And... uh... 

Hallucinates a Valkyrie???? Is this symbolic of suicidal thoughts, or is she... real? Or is he seriously hallucinating? 

Anyway, we’re not here to discuss Jack’s mental state, the fact that he forgot Tim’s birthday, or that concerning “I was going to knock some sense into you but you’re still bigger than me” statement from Tim, we’re here to talk about Janet. And even though this entire arc is about Jack mourning his first wife, they don’t SAY anything about Janet herself at all. I mean, they don’t even get her name right, so I guess what was I expecting. 

Then there’s Origins and Omens, which also doesn’t say anything about Janet, except that Tim’s memory of her is faulty - Janet was poisoned, her assistant Jeremy’s throat was slit on television, but Tim seems to have conflated the death he did see with the death he didn’t. 

The only piece of canon to suggest that Janet might be cold, is Tim compares her to Thalia. And even then, he’s really just saying Janet was protective of him. It’s kind of a scary look to make at your kid, but Bruce does the same thing, so. 

I do want to say... it’s not 100% clear if Tim is even talking about Janet. He could be talking about Dana. Dana was observably protective of Tim, though I don’t think he’s ever called her mom. He PROBABLY means Janet. 

And finally we have Tim visiting his mother’s grave (in a duel Christian/Jewish cemetery, make of that what you will), where Tim says she was “a little religious.”

And that’s it! That is all we know about Janet Drake in New Earth. Hardly the Mom From Hell, but she isn’t perfect. I’d be interested in seeing some alternate depictions of her within the fandom. 

I’m still gonna eat up Terrible Parents From Hell like a starving puppy dog, though. Just some food for creative thought. 

[lysical-secondary]

Do you think all the kids think of each other as siblings? Pretty much none of them grew up or were in Bruce's care at significantly overlapping times, and I'm not even sure to what extent like Dick or Tim see Bruce as their father or just a paternal/authority figure

This is heavily dependent on continuity because the new 52 did frankly weird things to some of these relationships. This is mostly Post-Crisis and may mesh with Rebirth since they’re drawing on Post-Crisis a bit more. I’m not including Duke yet because I’m not sure what’s officially happening there and it’s pretty clear they’re not yet at sibling stage there yet. 

Also, for some of these guys, they didn’t really interact at all so it’s all a bunch of assumptions. 

To start with, even Damian, who has technically always had siblings, was raised by Talia for a significant period and didn’t meet them until he was older and was indoctrinated to believe he was Bruce’s only child because he’s the only blood related one, which is horseshit because in Post-Crisis Bruce had spent about 20 years calling Jason his son and mourning him (DC was happy to make Bruce explicitly a father to Jason when he was dead, it’s actually quite interesting how it all changed with his return and the new 52. Ah, DC. I hate you.) 

So, Damian started out a hard ‘no’ and has only recently explicitly referred to Dick as his father’s son. They pretty clearly have a sibling relationship (with overlapping parent-child because of how they started out) but I don’t think this extends to his other siblings necessarily, although I think his constant focus on proving himself better than all his siblings shows that on some level he acknowledges them. Despite the start, he’s most likely going to end up thinking of all of them as his siblings, but the timeline on each will probably end up different. 

Cass is hard because DC keeps sidelining her. She started out very much fostered by Babs and Bruce wasn’t really a factor for her–she thought of him only as the Bat and didn’t give two twigs about who Bruce Wayne was. By the time Bruce offered the adoption for her I think she’d mostly established her relationships with the others–bar Damian and Jason, really. I think she and Tim probably relate more as friends because they were friends before either became family to Bruce, but it might slide naturally towards siblings because who’s to say that they didn’t see that in each other when they were ‘just’ friends? Dick was never really a friend and if he was anything it was something of a big brother mentor, so he could slide into that easily for her. I think Jason and Damian might slide into the role of ‘siblings’ easier simply because that’s how she was introduced to them. Bruce took her to Jason’s grave site and Damian was introduced as Bruce’s son, and they have no pre-existing relationships to complicate matters. It’s just whether Cass goes from ‘Bruce’s sons’ to ‘my brothers’ or not. I think she would, if DC would just stop sidelining her thanks. 

Tim and Dick had a brotherly relationship long before anything legal happened. But I honestly don’t see Tim seeing Bruce as his father. He was his mentor for a long time, and he’s definitely an important father figure and paternal influence in Tim’s life, but Tim was heavily invested in that reconciliation with his dad, and it actually seemed to be going places before DC decided to make another orphan. He was also much older when Jack Drake died. When Tim thinks of ‘dad’, it’s him, for better or worse. Tim clung to Bruce as a father after Bruce’s death, having lost another one so soon, but I just don’t see him doing such a switch, considering how he consistently seemed to pick Jack. I’m not saying Jack was a good father or anything, but yeah. I also don’t think his clinging to Bruce as extending to the rest of Bruce’s kids. Dick’s his brother for sure. Cass has been a female friend for a while and might already have been something of a sister, but Jason and Damian? Way harder sell. I think if he and Damian see each other as brothers it’s not happily. Jason and Tim…I’ll get to. 

Jason is without question Bruce’s son. He was, technically speaking, Bruce’s first son, as he was fully adopted in the 80s and after his death Bruce unequivocally called him by that when he spoke of him. Whatever retcons DC wants to do to push Damian as Bruce’s only kid, it’s whatever. There’s decades of history proving that wrong. Jason thinks of Bruce as his father, and was fairly happily adopted for a time. While Jason and Dick didn’t have much in a way of a relationship, I think it was probably still framed as ‘brothers’, of a kind, for them, since both seemed to have a bit of jealousy about the other that comes across fairly typically as sibling-like. It’s certainly not a significant relationship for either, but it’s there (Dick had a lot of regrets and I’m fairly convinced Jason became Little Brother in his head due to guilt afterwards). They haven’t really significantly interacted since his return until new 52/Rebirth really, there were some things in late Post-Crisis but Morrison…Anyway, they’re still quite coded in a big brother/little brother relationship, even when it was quite antagonistic. It was definitely not close though and could be argued. Jason and Damian have had very little interaction but they also have that weird thing with Talia. There has been some recent stuff in Rebirth with them. I think the Jason who came back wasn’t prepared to consider anyone who came after him a sibling, but I think Convergence and the recent stuff in Rebirth show that those two are going to end up in a fairly typical sibling relationship. It’s not there yet. 

Jason and Cass haven’t had any significant interactions in Post-Crisis (Cass was sidelined and I’m not sure they ever met) and he probably didn’t see her as much of anything at that point. If DC wasn’t sidelining Cass I could see them clicking the fastest on Jason’s end simply because he normally responds well to women generally anyway. 

Jason and Tim is where I diverge from Fandom at large. I really don’t care what the new 52 decided to do (literally they have a panel where Tim says flat out he’s not interacted with Jason much but still sees him as closest thing to a brother? I’m still boggling), it made absolutely no sense and came with no resolution. Tim calling himself Red Robin wouldn’t do crap to stop Jason ‘Petty’ Todd from seeing him as his replacement (because that’s what Red Robin functionally was) and Tim just ‘got over’ nearly being murdered by shrugging it off? No thanks. That and the complete erasure of Tim and Dick’s long history of their really strong (and important!) brotherly relationship killed me. I can’t do it, fam. 

Like…if you’ve read Lost Days and seen Jason’s reaction to Tim…I’m sorry but there is going to be some bitter resentment for a long, long time and I just do not see a fast resolution and happy family fun times there. Tim and Damian also have a longtime rivalry and I see the ‘Damian tried to kill him’ used a lot there, and I’m not sure why that just gets dropped with Jason and Tim. Jason brutalized him. Damian was a 10 year old (I think that was his pre-retcon age at the time, it might’ve been the pre-pre-retcon 8 though) who attempted to murder him. Jason was older, bigger and could’ve done it. I’m fairly sure Tim would remember that and not leap head first into a brotherly relationship there. Or any relationship. 

Moving along, Dick. Dick sees them all as his siblings. He takes to a big brother mentor role well and he’s out and out called all of them his siblings before. I think Cass would be the only one it’s more doubtful but I’m blaming DC and saying it would extend to her. His relationship with Bruce is much more complex. I think at this point, yes, Bruce is his father. I think it did not start out that way. Both of them went into it from a different place–Dick didn’t want a replacement father, Bruce wasn’t looking for a kid. But I think it changed naturally. Probably when Dick was about 16-17 and went through puberty and started to naturally grow up and out and Bruce’s reaction was to come down hard on that and be overbearing. Their epic fights from when Dick was about 17-18 until he was in this 20s were pretty intense and I think came from them both trying to re-navigate what they were to each other. Dick wasn’t adopted until he was in his 20s and at that point it was a ‘gesture’ for what was already long established. I think they still relate on a different level than purely father and son, which is that favoritism that Jason points out, but I do think that they view each other as that, now. It was a much longer and harder road getting there. 

Anyway this is my personal opinion based on mostly Post-Crisis and it’s comics so.