#cpunk discourse

[hell-on-sticks]

This disability pride month, I think it needs to be widely acknowledged that

a fundamental principle of disability justice is being able to recognise when someone might be more disabled than you.

[plain text: a fundamental principle of disability justice is being able to recognise when someone might be more disabled than you]

It's easy to point at ableds who will refuse to acknowledge others disabilities, not notice inaccessibility, or cringe away from catheterisation, stomas, hygiene problems and all the troubles that come with disability. It's simple to recognise that that's not okay.

But sometimes within the disabled community people don't do that well. And it's hard because there are of course many people fighting the internalised ableism that demands they downplay their disability. But the answer to that is not saying "nobody is more disabled than anyone else". This is not true. This has never been true.

You will not be able to work towards disability justice if you can't recognise that not all disabilities are equal. Even two people with the same disability - two people with SCIs, two people with autism, two people with EDS, etc. - may have wildly different levels of difficulty. And if you can't recognise that, you're being ableist. I'm sorry, I know that might be hard for some people, but you cannot have any kind of real understanding of disability if you cannot acknowledge when you are more or less disabled than another person.

[joeyspissstain]

as an ND able-bodied person, i just wanna say that cpunks are NOT doing anything wrong by not allowing us in their community. its completely okay and im actually very very happy that physically disabled people finally have their own space where they dont have to deal with ableism toward them all the time

able-bodied NDs have it made in this sense. we have TWO communities! we have neuropunk and madpunk, and you can go on any social media platform and easily find hundreds of other NDs on there along with little communities and shit. but physically disabled people dont have it that easy. when they DO find one that isnt just about ND people, it's still full of ableism. i've seen it myself and it makes me sick

so physically disabled people decided to make their OWN community. just for them. no one else. then THATS when able-bodied NDs start getting pissy and call them ableist when they were basically doing the exact same shit before.

you can handle not being allowed in one community. theres two more you can be part of just fine

if youre an able-bodied ND who sees yourself in any of this, maybe you should stop and look at yourself. make some improvements

to the cpunk community, dont let people like this tear you down. stand your ground, push these people out. you deserve your OWN safe space and no one will take that from you

[manyminded]

”cripplepunk is targeted towards physically disabled and purely mentally disabled folk should stay out of it” and “the lines between mentally and physically disabled are very blurry” are two things that can and should co exist, actually.

[here-there-be-bad-dragons]

As a trans, able bodied, person who has dyslexia, adhd, and cptsd cpunks aren't in the wrong for not including us in their terminology.

MERD is very clearly a shot at these people in an attempt to compare them to TERFs and I feel insulted that y'all'd compare people being fucking reasonable to those literal nazi aligned scum.

We literally already have Madpunk and Neuropunk. "Cripple" was a term used to refer to people with physical disabilities and issues, not psychological ones, it's reasonable that cpunks want to keep that term for themselves. It's nowhere near the same as a TERF saying "trans women are men" it's more like a queer person saying "cishets aren't queer punk, they can be punk and allies but they aren't queer punks."

[permanently-sprained-ankle]

I’m Native American. If a start a movement for specifically my tribe (Ayamara & Quichua) to discuss issues specific to natives in the Altaplana, other natives aren’t going to start complaining that they’re being unfairly excluded. Me starting a group for people like me isn’t saying that other natives aren’t native, and it’s not invalidating their indigeneity.

Following so far? Great.

So then why is it that when a marginalized group like physically disabled people want a movement specifically about the struggles we face as physically disabled people, we’re told we’re unfairly excluding others?

Why do people feel entitled the cripplepunk movement, a movement and space that isn’t for them, especially when there are plenty of movements that center their experiences?

There are two main reasons I’ve seen:

“””””internalized”””””” ableism: you feel as if your mental disability doesn’t count as a disability, so when you’re told that you can’t participate in a space for only physically disabled people, you feel as if that confirms your ableist internal belief that you’re not disabled enough. “Internalized” is in quotes because people with this attitude really just externalize it to hurt others.

“””””Lateral””””” ableism: as a disabled person, you hold and perpetuate beliefs that echo the wider structures of institutional and systemic ableism, and you feel entitled to hold those beliefs because you are disabled. This is comparable to trans people who are transmedicalists. “Lateral” is in quotes because most of the time, people who hold this attitude are lashing out at people with a completely different disability than them.

So let me ask you: why do you feel so fucking entitled to a movement that’s NOT FOR YOU?

And before you say “I’m physically disabled and I think it’s fine for non-physically disabled but mentally disabled people to be included”, re-read the “lateral” ableism point. Your ableist opinions aren’t correct just because you’re disabled.

DISCLAIMER: I’m not saying mentally disabled people aren’t disabled or that one kind of disability is always worse than the other. Any BS in replies will either be mocked or blocked.

[nightmaretour]

To everyone wondering what able bodied people so badly want to do with cripple punk when it's about experiences they can't relate to, I get you, but you're missing the point.

They don't want to relate to it. They hate that something exists that is explicitly not about them and they want to MAKE it about them. Anything that doesn't center their experiences is a threat to them, because their voices always have to be the loudest and most important. That's what they want with cripple punk, to eliminate any space where our voices can be heard over theirs.

[sillymcrandom]

the only thing ima say abt the current cpunk discourse is that it really shows how prevalent ableism towards physically disabled people is. like we’re literally being called terfs by a bunch of ableist able bodied mfs and people in our own community deep throating able bodied people’s boots.

CRIPPLEPUNK IS FOR PHYSICALLY DISABLED PEOPLE EXCLUSIVELY. IF YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF PHYSICALLY DISABLED YOURE IN IF YOU DONT YOURE NOT. IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT, THEN GO FUCK YOURSELF.

physically disabled people can have our own spaces, just like autistic people can have their own spaces, trans people, etc. but y’all just wanna oppress us even more, and the fact that some fellow physically disabled people are partaking in that is fucking disgusting.

im so sick of this shit.

[firelordhotman]

the sheer fucking ENTITLEMENT of ablebodied neurodivergents who cry bloody murder when the mean exclusionary cripples wont accept them into a movement thats not made for them, as if theres anything we can actually do to stop them from posting in the tag other than complain — meanwhile they ACTUALLY can and do **PHYSICALLY** bar neurodivergent wheelchair users from entering in-person mental health spaces and accessing resources all the time. like holy shit. do none of yall have a single drop of shame? this tag is the one thing we have and we cant even keep yall from being annoying in it for a day. i fucking HOPE yall feel, for even a MINUTE, even an OUNCE of the exclusion that so many of us feel every goddamn day, just trying to move thru society. die mad, i beg of you

[crippleculture]

phoenixonwheels is literally making shit up. "cripplepunk was always for every disabled person" no the fuck it wasnt? one of the core tenants of cripplepunk is literally that its only for physically disabled people, like they're literally trying to spread misinformation about it, you can literally go and look with your fucking eyeballs at the post that coined it on the founder's blog and see that its explicitly by and for physically disabled people

[hell-on-sticks]

look I get that it's often important for a person to look for reassurance on whether they are considered disabled or not, I'm not gonna get into that one. What I am going to say is that people need to stop asking "can I say the c slur?". Not how slur reclamation works anyway, and also? Why are you so eager to know if you can say it or not? It's one thing to reclaim it in power, but asking around to get permission from a cpunk blogger to use a slur is unnerving. Stop asking for permission to say slurs and start looking for ways you can participate in and uplift the community they apply to, even if you're a part of it.

[normal-with-adhd-is-a-joke]

just going to say I think the whole "glasses are a mobility aid" argument is in poor faith and just meant to stir up trouble but also some people's responses to it have been genuinely ridiculous. "Well the difference between glasses and a mobility aid is that you can get around without glasses and you can't get around without a mobility aid" that makes no fucking sense. There are people who are blind without glasses who would not be able to navigate without them. I'm talking so-blurry-you-can-barely-make-out-shapes blind. I use my wheelchair as a preventative, I could live without it but it would seriously limit what I can do and possibly lead to health problems eventually. If I and a person who's blind without glasses needed to escape a burning building without aids or assistance I would 100% be more likely to survive that situation. "Can you technically survive without it?" has never been a criteria for a mobility aid within the community and in fact, the cpunk community itself actively fights that idea because it leads to people being denied aids that could prevent illness and injury. I feel like we should be addressing the fact that this is clearly the 2.0 version of "people who would have previously viciously defended their title of able-bodied trying to shed it now that they think there's a cool club to join about it" and not trying to argue semantics which almost always leads to people who are absolutely included in the definition of something being left out.

[plague-parade]

genuinely people need to start curating their dash experiences more. you dont like a person? block them. you think theyre mean? block them. dont like a topic? blacklist it.

it is your responsibility to curate what you see and dont see on a platform like tumblr that doesnt have an algorithm. follow blogs you like, topics you like, and block and ignore the ones that you dont. it is that easy.

[visible-schizo-spectrum]

i don’t vague. i am not ab that. @phoenixonwheels . let’s break down some of ur points. i assume u r open to genuine discussion since u post in the public sphere.

first thing first. “MERD” is not an analog to “TERF.” trans exclusionary radical feminism says that transgender women can never be women, and transgender men are lost women. “mental exclusion” would theoretically mean that cripplepunk is solely for the mentally abled physdis community. but this is not what happens, and the vast majority of cripples are also mentally ill/disabled.

second. calling out the use of insane/idiot/etc does not work for that exact reason. you do exactly what you seem to be upset at other ppl for doing. they assume you are able bodied and you laugh at them for telling a wheelchair user that cpunk isn’t for them. we laugh bcs you act like the average cripple is mentally well and casually using slurs as if the most popular mean cripple exclusionist isn’t bipolar and you’re not arguing with neurodivergent and mentally ill ppl every day.

third. “mental disability” in those exact words is terminology that the b/id community has been asking others not to use, but ofc nobody ever listens to intellectually disabled ppl bcs changing language is so awful. most mental disorders are what we prefer ppl to call psychosocial disabilities. even if you don’t give up this MERD thing (bcs you obviously won’t and will block me after this and cry ab exclusionism and i really don’t care) at least consider changing this language.

fourth. if your mental or psychosocial disability causes physical symptoms, THE PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS ARE THE PHYSICAL DISABILITY. if you have anxiety that causes you constant blood pressure and heart issues and chest pain then nobody in cripplepunk gives a shit where it comes from. your physical symptoms are physically disabling. your disability is your business all we are asking is “does it affect you physically.” cripplepunk communities are AWARE that these are not strict categories and the two impact each other.

you seem like you have a very poor understanding of cripplepunk spaces, likely bcs you don’t actually want to communicate in common ground terms. if you went to a community space and said smth like “i have autism which caused me pretty severe motor skill and coordination issues, i therefore identify myself as physically disabled and a cripple” no one would care. literally no one would care.

final point. how do u feel ab the idea of mentally abled cripples calling themselves insane and participating in madpunk/neuropunk?

[sick-thing]

"Cripplepunk is so gatekeepy and exclusionary for not letting able-bodied nd's in" *sniffling* omg ikr and Latino heritage month is sooo mean for not letting my non-Latino ass celebrate and cancer support groups should let me join and mtf forums should let me post about being ftm and and I'm hypermobile so I can reclaim the r-slur because the body is connected to the brain and all disabilities is the same and everything should be about me all the time waaah waaaah waaaah /s

[permanently-sprained-ankle]

Stop fucking comparing disability to queer identity

They are different fucking forms of oppression. The nuances of each are not are not comparable! Because both types of oppression are unique!

No cripples wanting spaces to talk about the ableism we deal with isn’t the same as “lesbian exclusionism” or whatever the fuck because disabled identity and queer identities do not have the same sociological functions and therefore do not operate on the same nuances!!

No, “””gatekeeping”””” cripplepunk is not the same as gatekeeping who can identify as lesbian or as a woman or whatever the fuck because they are different types of identities and operate on completely different kinds of social understanding!!!

You do not identify as disabled (or a subgroup) in the same way as you identify as a queer person! You can say you do but these identities function completely differently!!!

Able bodies get a fucking grip!!!

[nightmaretour]

As someone with actual physical brain damage, I'm confiscating "the brain is an organ" from able-bodied people indefinitely