#dc-polls-twnfst

[dc-polls]

The DC Comics "They Would Not Fucking Say That!" Poll Tournament is LIVE!

Rules & Submission Info: Click Here

[dc-polls]

Alright, here it is, it's finally happening!

They Would Not Fucking Say That

~Final Round~

Beating out Batman killing police by running them over and Donna calling Jason "Re-Todd" we have...

Anarky Causes Violence with Fascists

From: Prelude to the Wedding: Red Hood vs. Anarky. New 52/Prime Earth(?)

Context: Anarky attempts to thwart Catwoman’s bachelorette party (it was a lead-up to the Bruce/Selina fail wedding) and Jason Todd attempts to stop him.

Teams up with fascists to ruin Selina’s outing by sowing violence, chaos, and destruction in a large crowd of people because the Joker played on his desire for a father figure.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

VS

Jason Todd Prevents Vengeance

From: Red Hood and the Outlaws #34, The New 52

Context: Starfire tracks down the man who kept her as a slave for the purpose of killing him.

Jason convinces her to NOT kill the man.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

So.. Now's your chance to decide.. Which character was more wronged? Who was the victim of the worst character assassination?

WHO WOULD NOT FUCKING DO THAT?!

Defend your vote! Sway the hearts of others!! REBLOG WITH TAGS!!!

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Preliminary Poll

Michael Jon Carter (Booster Gold)

From: Batman (2016) #45-47 Context: Batman and Booster Gold...exist? Honestly there's zero background to this one, they hadn't interacted at all in the Rebirth universe up to that point.

Booster goes back in time to save Bruce's parents, inadvertently creating a worse timeline.

Booster is a TIME MASTER. His entire purpose is protecting the sanctity of the timestream. On the rare occasions he has seriously tried to tamper with it, it's to prevent his own tragic backstory or to save his best friend's life. Why would he do something so completely anathema to his entire shtick for BATMAN, who he is awkward work colleagues with AT BEST? They aren't friends! Booster isn't invested in Bruce! He's also not the colossal idiot King paints him as and knows better than to pull stupid shit like this! In fact, Booster appeared immediately before this story in a Superman storyline telling Superman that no, they can't actually go back in time and save Krypton...WHICH IS THE CORRECT ANSWER. So why, months later, is he saving Thomas and Martha Wayne and creating a dystopian timeline where Selina can only say "meow?" (I'm not joking. That's what happens if the Waynes live.) HE WOULD NEVER.

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Semi-Finals #2

Beating out Vic Sage killing the Suicide Squad and Booster Gold messing with the time stream to save the Waynes, we have...

Anarky Causes Violence with Fascists

From: Prelude to the Wedding: Red Hood vs. Anarky. New 52/Prime Earth(?) Context: Anarky attempts to thwart Catwoman’s bachelorette party (it was a lead-up to the Bruce/Selina fail wedding) and Jason Todd attempts to stop him.

Teams up with fascists to ruin Selina’s outing by sowing violence, chaos, and destruction in a large crowd of people because the Joker played on his desire for a father figure.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

VS

Batman Kills Police with a Car

From: That one Frank Miller comic, All-Star Batman and Robin Context: This is the comic where Robin ate rats and lived in a cave. So it’s just all round bad.

Ran over police officers with a car

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

Which incident was more out of character?

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Preliminary Poll

Jason Todd (Red Hood)

From: Red Hood and the Outlaws #34, The New 52 Context: Starfire tracks down the man who kept her as a slave for the purpose of killing him.

Jason convinces her to NOT kill the man.

I will admit it had been a little while since I fully read through rhato but literally just two issues before the incident Jason was shooting up a plane full of terrorists so it's not like he had a dramatic change of heart about morals over the course of the comic. He has killed people and believes that some people cannot be redeemed and should die. He's willing to kill for the people he cares about. He has argued with Batman about their respective moral codes, and his gotham comeback included a very dramatic revenge scheme. One of the many people Jason has killed was a human trafficker in RH: Lost Days. Why would he talk down Starfire from killing a slave trader? Not just any slave trader either but the one who had her. It's not like he's appreciated batman ever telling him to not kill someone. How is starfires revenge any of his business? And why would he be against it? Starfire even says that that he of all people should know why she has to. And Jason's only response to that is "He ruled your life when you were a kid, Kori. Don't give him anything else." I just don't think that's very compelling. I got into DC comics fairly recently so I can't say im an expert on various characterizations or character depths, but I do think that he would not fucking say that. Like come on.

[Image ID: Three comic panels. The first one features Starfire standing outside in the rain with her hand, alight with fire, on the slave trader's throat. She says "Don't... ask me to do this. Don't ask me to walk away." In the second panel she crouches and lays the man down on the ground as she turns her torso to face Jason and Arsenal, who are pointing their respective gun and bow at her, pointing at Jason and saying "You KNOW, Jason -- You above EVERYONE ELSE should know why I HAVE to DO this! If you ASK me to-- I won't. But I can not say for sure that I will EVER forgive EITHER of you." In the third panel we see Jason in his Red Hood attire pointing two guns at her as he says "He ruled your life when you were a kid, Kori. Don't give him anything else." /End ID]

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Round Two - #2

Beating out Mikhail Arkadin being loyal to Russia, and Maxwell Lord murdering Ted Kord, we have...

Batman Makes Robin Eat Rats

From: Frank Miller’s All-Star Batman and Robin Context: He kidnapped Dick Grayson and planned to leave him in the cave to fend for himself, saying “your food will present itself” with the metaphorical camera cutting to bats and rats.

Forcing Dick Grayson to eat rats

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

VS

Donna Calls Jason "Re-Todd"

From: Countdown, 2007 (It's...multiversal)

Context: Jason Todd shot Donna as part of a ruse to escape, because reasons.

Donna refers to Jason as "re-todd" afterward.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

Which incident was more out of character?

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That!

Preliminary Poll

Jervis Tetch (The Mad Hatter)

From: Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth

Context: Like most Batman Villains, he was introduced as a criminal with a gimmick (Alice in Wonderland and hats with mind-control devices, in his case). After Arkham Hospital/Asylum for the Criminally Insane was created in the comics, his character became one of the patients, sometimes specifying he has schizophrenia.

"Ah, yes. The apparent disorder of the universe is simply a higher order, an implicate order beyond our comprehension. That's why children... interest me. They're all mad you see, but in each of them is an implicate adult. Order out of chaos. Or is it the other way around? To know them is to know myself. Little girls especially. Little blonde girls. Little shameless bitches!"

I've read most of his comic appearances and as far as I know, he had at no point previous to the release of this graphic novel in 1989 ever even interacted with children on a comic (other than Robin, ofc). Grant Morrison just happened to characterize most Arkham patients as either perverts (Joker is gaaaay, he slapped Batman's ass! How creepyyyy is that?) or an allegory for something sexual (Clayface is meant to represent Aids, according to the script included in the anniversary edition) to contrast with Batman being sexually repressed.

Jervis got randomly made into a pedophile just for being the one rogue with a "childish" theme. Nevermind that he also hadn't ever looked for an 'Alice' (regardless of age) previously.

**If this had been made part of his character in further appearances I'd grit my teeth and accept it, but it wasn't. It occasionally pops up if the writers want to make him creepy (see: Haunted Knight, Robin: Year One), but otherwise he has zilch to do with children**

Here's a list of his appearances in order, in case anyone wants to check for themselves:

https://dcuguide.com/w/Mad_Hatter_(Jervis_Tetch)_Chronology

[Image ID: Six comic panels of the Mad Hatter in various closeups and dialog. He says, "Ah, yes. The apparent disorder of the universe is simply a higher order, an implicate order beyond our comprehension. That's why children... interest me. They're all mad you see, but in each of them is an implicate adult. Order out of chaos. Or is it the other way around? To know them is to know myself. Little girls especially. Little blonde girls. Little shameless bitches! Oh god. God help us all! Sometimes... sometimes I think the asylum is a head. We're inside a huge head that dreams us all into being." /End Image ID]

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT

[dc-polls]

DC Comics "They Would Not Fucking Say That!" Poll Tournament

Tournament & Submission Rules

Hello and welcome to our very first tournament! By popular demand, the theme of this competition is "They would not fucking say that!"

This means we are looking for dialog or an action from official DC source material that is painfully, woefully, egregiously out of character (ooc). Let's call this the "Incident". You will need to describe the incident, provide the in-universe context for it, and make a case for why this is ooc.

How and when can I submit?

Enter by filling out this Google form: Click Here

Submissions open as soon as this post goes live, which is Saturday August 12.

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, at 11:00pm EDT (same time zone as New York).

What kind of incident can I submit?

You may submit any single exchange of dialog or single action that occurred in official DC media by a DC character. It must be specific and concise, and not a general overarching way that a character or storyline is handled. You will have a whole "go off" type of section to explain, so save the context and arguments for that. The incident itself should be fairly specific!

Dialog doesn't have to be one single sentence, but do your best to keep it to only the ooc part and be as brief as possible.

Even though the theme of this tournament has "say" in it, we are allowing actions, decisions, etc. Again, keep it to only the ooc portion.

Can I submit more than one incident?

Yes! Just keep in mind to submit only the most heinous of ooc situations.

Note: Multiple entries for the same incident won't affect its standings. But I will do my best to combine the info so that each submitter's voice is heard.

Is this limited to print comics?

No, any DC property is allowed, but keep in mind that you should be clear when making your case if the incident was ooc for that particular incarnation of the character, or if it's relative to comics canon.

You will have to specify what medium or universe they are from. Examples include Arrowverse, DCAU, Webtoon, Post-Flashpoint comics, etc.

How is the bracket handled?

It is very likely we'll have a preliminary round to help with seeding. This would be an opportunity to let the community weigh in on adherence to the theme and interpretation of the incident.

If there is not a preliminary due to low number of entries, and if the submitted incidents seem about evenly weighted, we will go with random seeding.

The tournament will be single elimination. If we somehow get an exorbitant number of submissions, we may do a multi-armed bracket with round robin for the finalists. More detail will be provided here if this happens.

At the moment there is not a set schedule, and pacing will depend on number of entries. So your best bet on catching the next wave of polls is to follow this blog.

Polls will run for seven days each so that there's plenty of time to vote, share and discuss in the reblogs.

Voters should only consider how much of a character assassination the incident is. This means your love or hate for a writer, story or character should not be the deciding factor for your vote.

Can I send in propaganda for an incident once polls are live?

If you want to bolster the argument for an incident being ooc, put it in a reblog! This way it stays with the poll and everyone knows where to look for some extra info.

It is not recommended to send asks with propaganda, as these end up getting buried.

Is there a tag for this tournament?

Yes! All polls for this tournament will be tagged with #dc-polls-twnfst

What if I have more questions?

Chances are if you have a question, others may be wondering the same thing, so don't hesitate to send an ask! If something in this post needs clarification let me know and I will edit it.

With how tumblr works, if you'd like to ask something privately you will have to do so off of anon. Be sure to request a direct response so I don't post your ask.

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Round Two - #3

Beating out Batman not believing the Riddler has been reformed, and Jervis Tetch acting like a pedophile, we have...

Booster Gold Saves the Waynes

From: Batman (2016) #45-47

Context: Batman and Booster Gold...exist? Honestly there's zero background to this one, they hadn't interacted at all in the Rebirth universe up to that point.

Booster goes back in time to save Bruce's parents, inadvertently creating a worse timeline.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

VS

Batman Kills Police with a Car

From: That one Frank Miller comic, All-Star Batman and Robin

Context: This is the comic where Robin ate rats and lived in a cave. So it’s just all round bad.

Ran over police officers with a car

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

Which incident was more out of character?

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Round One - #8

Anarky Causes Violence with Fascists

From: Prelude to the Wedding: Red Hood vs. Anarky. New 52/Prime Earth(?) Context: Anarky attempts to thwart Catwoman’s bachelorette party (it was a lead-up to the Bruce/Selina fail wedding) and Jason Todd attempts to stop him.

Teams up with fascists to ruin Selina’s outing by sowing violence, chaos, and destruction in a large crowd of people because the Joker played on his desire for a father figure.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

VS

Guy Gardner is Pro-US Nukes

From: Justice League (1987) #2, New Earth Context: Three supers from a world destroyed by nuclear weapons were dismantling nuclear missiles

Guy says only "Ronnie-boy" should have nukes

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

Which incident was more out of character?

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Round One - #1

Jason Todd Prevents Vengeance

From: Red Hood and the Outlaws #34, The New 52 Context: Starfire tracks down the man who kept her as a slave for the purpose of killing him.

Jason convinces her to NOT kill the man.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

VS

The Source Doesn't Exist Beyond the Wall

From: Death of the New Gods #5 Context: Someone has been murdering the New Gods. While others track down the killer, Metron does his own investigation and encounters the Source on a planet long ago in the timestream. There, the Source tells Metron its plans.

The Source says it doesn't exist beyond the Source Wall.

Read the reblogs and full description HERE

Which incident was more out of character?

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That!

Preliminary Poll

Maxwell Lord IV

From: Countdown to Infinite Crisis #1

Context: Before the comic at hand was released, Max had not appeared in dc canon,(aside from in Formerly Known As The Justice League which I'm fairly sure wasn't fully canon?), since 1995 , where he was a cyborg with no powers. Leading up to that he was mostly the manager for the justice league.

It was "revealed" that he had apparently been a criminal mastermind the whole time, who wanted to rid the world of people with super powers and had somehow become the leader of the spy organization Checkmate. Ted Kord,(the second blue beetle and a friend of Max's), found this out and was going to reveal it, so Max used his mind control to keep him from escaping and then shot him in the head, killing him.

It is difficult for me to put into words how many reasons there are that this was an absolutely boneheaded idea with no understanding of Max's character, and it genuinely infuriates me that it is clearly the foundation of his modern characterization. To start with, Max never showed any distaste for people with superpowers. He made himself the manager of the justice league, (admittedly mostly because an evil supercomputer told him he should but we'll get back to that), and worked with them for years! When that league disbanded he even went to the new version to go and see if they would let him be their manager! He clearly thought superpowers were a positive thing!

Also, he is not the kind of person who could stomach committing evil deeds. There is an entire comic( JLA #41, it's very funny please check it out) dedicated to him using his (very limited) mind control powers to make a lady start talking to him instead of him having to break the ice. This makes him feel so guilty that he has a nightmare that ends with all of his friends in the league calling him a bad person and he has to call the league afterwards to make sure it was fake. That doesn't seem like someone willing to shoot people in the face to me, especially people he knows.

SPEAKING of his friends in the league, he cared about the members of the JLI. Remember the evil computer I mentioned? Well, he mostly stopped doing what it told him because he realized he didn't like being under it's thumb and that he didn't like the kind of person he was becoming doing what it said. But that was kick-started by him worrying for the JLI!. And I feel I should mention that the member of the team he was closest to was J'onn J'onzz, the Martian Manhunter. J'onn really trusted Max, and believed he was a good person. I would think his judgement would be correct.

Anyway I know this is just a lot of shoddily tossed together information, but I hope it's enough to show you how out of character infinite crisis was for Max. I legitimately don't have it in me to be more put together about this as it makes me so so mad.

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Preliminary Poll

Lonnie Machin (Anarky)

From: Prelude to the Wedding: Red Hood vs. Anarky. New 52/Prime Earth(?) Context: Anarky attempts to thwart Catwoman’s bachelorette party (it was a lead-up to the Bruce/Selina fail wedding) and Jason Todd attempts to stop him.

Teams up with fascists to ruin Selina’s outing by sowing violence, chaos, and destruction in a large crowd of people because the Joker played on his desire for a father figure.

Lonnie, prior to the reboot, was conceived as and most prominently depicted as a politically left-anarchist character until his creator and primary writer, Alan Grant, began getting into Randian Neo-Tech Objectivism and projected it onto Lonnie as Lonnie was always his political mouthpiece. However, despite Lonnie's political sway going from more anarcho-communist to objectivist, he was always a character who had near-unwavering, passionate stances on social issues. He considered anyone who preyed on the common man, or "enemies of the people", to be *his* enemies, and he often came at this from a leftist point of view. He was a strong supporter of social justice for the oppressed, and it was his sorrow and outrage at oppression that led him to take up vigilantism. He despised fascism and considered anyone who used initiatory violence against others to be opposed to him. To Lonnie, anarchism is a philosophy of total freedom from oppression, self-determination, and helping your fellow man, not 'chaos'.

He was also *very* anti-gun and anti-weapon of mass destruction. Whenever he used bombs, they were often smoke bombs or paint bombs. On the one single occasion he used actual bombs to blow up a munitions factory, he evacuated everyone in the building before it blew up, as he cares for the lives of innocents and does not kill. The one single time that it is implied that he killed, his victim was a man who blew up 20+ innocent people in a public setting via bombing and used him as a scapegoat. He has said before that he 'can't let innocent people die because of him'. He holds to this even if he can be clumsy in his methods. When he once experienced a machine-induced dream in which Gotham City descended into fiery chaos because of his well-intentioned actions, he had a crying breakdown.

And, on the Joker - in his 1999 solo series, there is a plot point that is left open-ended that implies the Joker could be Lonnie's biological father, as he is an adoptee. This was done to cement Lonnie into the Batman mythos, as his creators Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle cared a lot about him. When editors disapproved of this, they let Grant write it on the condition that he would prove it wrong later on, but after the Joker issue the series was canceled, and so for all intents and purposes, it was not meant to be lasting 'canon'. Lonnie has been known to hate the Gotham Rogues, as he considers their actions against the people of the city to be completely antithetical to his views and ideals, some of the most important things to him. When he thought that the Joker could've been his father, he had a breakdown. He visited Arkham in order to find out and the Joker briefly played on his (at the time, a 16 year old child) yearning to figure out his parentage in the wake of his adoptive parents' implied death (with some genetic determinism 'does this mean i'll be a "madman" too? involved, but, eugh), but once the Joker tried to use Lonnie to help him break out of Arkham, Lonnie quickly acted against him to prevent his escape. It is said in a (dubiously canon) Batman encyclopedia that the crisis that the Joker could have been his father put him through caused him to self-isolate even harder than he normally does for a while until Cassie Sandsmark's speech during YJ: Sins of Youth inspired him back onto the field. Needless to say, he hates the Joker, and his hatred for the Joker's actions was enough to override his want for a parental figure.

In the post-reboot continuity, Lonnie is no longer an adoptee and his single mother would tell him the Joker was his 'real father' and would come and get him if he misbehaved. He began writing letters to the Joker, who eventually tried to get Lonnie to 'impress' him by giving Batman a 'rehearsal' before his wedding. Lonnie did this by gathering militant anti-feminist terrorists and gun nuts alongside leftists and anti-fascists in one place in order to get them to fight each other and cause 'blood, smoke, and chaos.'

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Preliminary Poll

Bruce Wayne (Batman)

From: Frank Miller’s All-Star Batman and Robin Context: He kidnapped Dick Grayson and planned to leave him in the cave to fend for himself, saying “your food will present itself” with the metaphorical camera cutting to bats and rats.

Forcing Dick Grayson to eat rats

While Bruce’s parenting skills vary wildly, oscillating from good to abusive, this is in my opinion a particularly heinous misrepresentation of his character done almost entirely for shock value by Miller, who is notable for writing Batman as a deranged borderline fascist.

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Preliminary Poll

Vic Sage (The Question)

From: The Question (2005) Context: Vic's been running around Metropolis for three-and-a-half issues, communing with the city and beating up criminals, when Superman shows up and starts lecturing him.

He confirms to Superman that the comic's unusual art style is because he is constantly high off his ass.

Look, there are worse takes on him that I could not possibly explain concisely. This though? #10 of the 1987 run establishes that he *hates* being high and his single intentional experiment with hallucinogens in college ended with him punching his dealer, and it's a recurring thing in that run that he gets drugged and has an incredibly bad time about it. The excuse of drawing from his older iteration doesn't work here either, unlike in some other bad takes on him, because that version was a transparent soapbox for Steve Ditko's political opinions and Ditko has been described as the "least likely person to use drugs on the island of Manhattan". This is, like, the ONE THING that the pre-crisis and post-crisis versions would agree on!

[Image ID: A cropped comic panel where part of the panel is coloured naturally, while part is bright and erratic. Superman: "It's only a matter of time. To me, every human pulse is as individual as a fingerprint. Yours is quite erratic. I'd say you were under the influence of a powerful psychoactive substance." Vic: "I... uhhh... walk in two worlds." /End Image ID]

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT

[dc-polls]

They Would Not Fucking Say That! Preliminary Poll

Bruce Wayne (Batman)

From: Episode "Riddler's Reform", Batman: the Animated Series Context: Riddler has been released from jail, and is partnering with Wacko Toys.

Batman instantly does not believe that Riddler has reformed, and shows immediate suspicion towards him. He's overall just a bit mean to Riddler who has "reformed"

Batman - Bruce Wayne - is a kind man at his heart. Sure, he may have been right, and Riddler did end up to have not reformed, but Batman should have given him a chance, and unless he has super instinct then he wouldn't have immediately known.

In another episode, Harley's Holiday, Batman (and his alter ego) supports Harley after her release, and is still supportive during the shenanigans. Harley has done much more damage than Riddler, so he can't use danger as an excuse (although one could argue that since she is separated from Joker, she will not be committing those crimes as they're mostly his fault, but this could be refuted by the episode in which she leaves Joker and goes on a crime spree with Poison Ivy). We could argue that Harley is more immature so Batman would believe her more, but it's just a bit unfair that he helps Harley so much but immediately knows Riddler is scheming. Maybe it's meant to be a show of his intelligence, but it just comes off as mean.

(this is all no hate to Harley, she's amazing, but it's just unfair that Eddie can't be treated with kindness as well. Disclaimer, I am a big Riddler fan so I am very biased)

As always, remember to check the notes for info others may have shared, and reblog to help increase reach!

Submissions close Wednesday August 23, 11:00 pm EDT