#deconstructing tropes

[halfagone]

Is it weird that I’m not a big fan of the whole this hero from this fandom gets adopted by the batfam trope? Like, it’s repetitive, but my main issue is that I feel like it devalues the hero in the process? Like, I’ve read fics about Danny and Spidey being adopted by them , and it’s just weird because they’re both solo heroes who’ve accomplished amazing things by themselves, and I feel them getting adopted and following Batman’s order just makes them another sidekick? Like, Spider man in particular was one of the first teen heroes that wasn’t a sidekick, and Danny falls into that category too. Sorry, does that make sense?

I think I get what you're trying to say here! That part of the reason why teenage heroes like Spider-Man and Danny Phantom are so impressive is because they did the hero thing alone, right? That they were capable of all these feats without a mentor and through their own wits and talents? I believe I'm getting that correctly?

I wouldn't call that weird at all. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, and should be respectful enough not to bash anyone else for theirs.

I will say that half the reason why I adore Danny so much is how passionate his character is. We have evidence that Danny isn't the most fond of the hero gig, but the fact that he keeps at it, keeps putting himself in danger to protect people, proves that for all that he's a little shit that gets on people's nerves, he is genuinely a good kid. He didn't have to do the hero thing, but he did, because someone had to, and he decided it had to be him. And he did it alone, or- mostly alone. Sam and Tucker's help should never be underestimated, but it's no secret that they don't have all the firepower he does.

I do understand why people like the trope where Danny or Peter get adopted, and part of it is for the same reasons I like it too.

When you think about it, teen heroes are targeted for teen audiences. They're fictional characters meant to instill confidence in kids, teach them that they can do good too, help them grow and reflect when they see their favorite heroes going through the same things they do. All sorts of things like that. And when you're a kid, you feel like the world is stacked against you. Hopefully you'll have people in your corner, but not every kid out there does. So these kinds of heroes help them build confidence in their independence, that they can stand up for themselves too, even when no one else will.

But then you grow up, and then you realize you shouldn't have had to do that all by yourself. You should have had a trusting adult to look out for you, you should have had someone to watch your back. I was an anxious 14-15 year old, because I was stupid enough to try to finish high school in 3 years instead of the standard 4.

And that's nothing in comparison to these teen heroes who have people's lives in their hands, fighting every day knowing that one day they might not come back home, getting injuries they can't always hide well. On top of all that, they have to make excuses at school, make excuses at home, try to keep up with their grades so that they can have a future, they have to think about college/university plans.

Sometimes they get grounded or punished, because they're lying to their family's faces, but it's all for a good cause. But they can't explain that either, because they want to protect the people they love. Peter Parker is usually very poor, in some cases he works one or multiple jobs to help Aunt May pay the bills.

The teenage experience is overwhelming enough, they shouldn't have to worry about the hero thing. But they want to help people. And they deserve to get some help of their own.

I know there are probably some people out there that give Danny or Peter a loving family because they see a lot of themselves in these two. They couldn't get that supportive family, so they go in and they give these teen heroes the family they never had, because they know how much good it would have done for them too. And sometimes that blood/biological family isn't the answer, might even be the root problem of it all, so they give them an adopted one.

Obviously it's still not for everyone, especially if you do want to keep that independent aspect that kinda makes the whole teenage hero trope. So the concept might not be for you, and that's okay too! Unfortunately sometimes that means you have to ignore a lot of fics, but hopefully there are plenty other fics that are out there for you.

[sizzlingsandwichperfection-blog]

People are like, "He's not very active on here," but do y'all know how many unsent drafts I have clapping back at the haters who still think Paper Towns is a Manic Pixie Dream Girl novel?

[level20mallow]

I want to pontificate on one of the big reasons why it is I support revenge and such: the hypocrisy and cruelty of its detractors.

The thing you have to understand about people who oppose revenge is that they only oppose it in name only. They'll happily participate in all of the same behaviors people typically associate with revenge: anger, irrationality, lashing out either non-violently or with violence (often after ranting about how it's bad). It's blatant hypocrisy and the blatant hypocrisy is the point: it means people who oppose revenge have an agenda and that agenda is often to protect abusers from consequences.

One of their ilk actually went to a thread I reblogged a while ago looking to start beef with me, because they walked into the conversation with a specific stereotype of a revenge supporter in mind and just assumed that because I support revenge, that that meant I fit that stereotype. And that quasi-bigotry is the point: it's ignorant and prejudiced, and a really huge part of the problem. Have a look:

I don't actually support the U.S. legal system in any way. I don't even support the death penalty. My stance is to do away with all of that and not only replace it with a system that is more streamlined and effective, but also respects the human right of all individuals to retaliate when they are abused or bullied or exploited, which is what revenge actually is. The schmuck who was trying to stir shit up obviously wasn't listening though. Actually they kept ranting after I called them out on that point.

See, they were flipping out because they are the kind of revenge detractor that sees revenge as an obstacle in the way of their real goal: shutting down the U.S. prison system, and that's why they are angry.

They think you, the abuse survivor, the one who has themselves been raped and tortured and beaten and whose self-esteem and identity have been completely driven into the ground for decades, throughout childhood, having committed no crime and in fact has had the abuser wield the same legal system to punish *you* for speaking out or fighting back, are nothing more than an obstacle to their political goals.

Have you ever seen the trope in media where a friend or loved one of a revenge seeker angrily confronts them when they're about to kill the main villain and the whole cause of the problem, and either screams at them, gives them a Reason Why You Suck Speech, emotionally abuses or even physically gets violent with them to force them to stop?

You ever stop to think why they do that when they know the villain is the actual problem and their actions are only making the problem worse, enabling the villain to escape, and how sometimes that character will even outright defend the villain (even a rapist or child murderer) ? This is one of the reasons why.

People who oppose revenge enable abuse and the very violence they oppose when they do this, and they don't give a fuck because for a lot of them, it's all about their political goals. They are authoritarians, the most cruel kind because of the fact that they place their zealotry above very real human lives who are negatively impacted by their actions. It's all about forcing people into their unrealistic utopia which in no way accounts for human nature or the reality of the situation abuse survivors have to deal with.

And they get so angry because they view you as a political opponent doing or supporting the causes they oppose, which have nothing to do with revenge. You are not a victim deserving of help or love or justice, you are an inconvenience and a threat that must be knocked out of the way, and that's one really big reason why opposition to revenge is nonsensical and immoral.

They claim revenge seekers will become the enemies they oppose, when it is in fact them who are becoming exactly that, and that clown who was arguing with me is a perfect example of that.

This is how these stupid fucking scumbags think

They view all violence as the same while ignoring or supporting the violence of abusers who hurt only innocent people, or even their own as they sometimes use it to stop revenge seekers while opposing all violence, they dehumanize anyone who disagrees with them by regarding them as subhuman savages in need of their political enlightenment, they don't respect your rights, and they don't care about you.

People who oppose revenge only care about themselves. People who oppose revenge actually are or become the very thing they claim to hate. People who oppose revenge hypocritically claim revenge dehumanizes the seeker while demanding that everyone view the abuser as a human and a victim regardless of their own actions or how inherently dehumanized they are through mindset or action.

People who oppose revenge are just dumbass hypocrites and you should not listen to them.

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

Underrated reason why Lyanna as the KotLT just works is because it follows a pattern of deconstruction re the concept of knightly chivalry and honor, from Lyanna herself to her son 15yrs+ later. Lyanna as the KotLT is a gender-swapped version of the ‘knight rescues a helpless maiden from raucous bullies’ trope, but grrm of course puts his spin on it because one Lyanna is not even a knight to begin with and two, she’s a girl. Then knight!Lyanna fights the bullies which is again an adaptation of another trope: the ‘mysterious knight-errant enters the joust and wins then dips’, which is interesting because these types of knights sometimes fall into the black knight trope. And the black knight is, more often than not, not the hero. But the main reason why this is so interesting is Jon. Lyanna “cosplays” a black knight, but her son Jon later becomes an actual black knight. Jon then repeats his mother’s actions by defending Sam in AGoT, which is another subversion of the aforementioned ‘knight rescues a helpless maiden trope’ because the helpless maiden in this case is a helpless…lad…Though Jon and Lyanna acting as agents outside the bounds of knighthood (Lyanna being a northern woman and Jon being a member of the NW) puts them more in line with the traditional black knight (who is usually an anti-hero/villain), the actual essence of their actions puts them closer to the more valiant and honorable white knight according to tradition.

[yinyuedijun]

anyway I'm over it

[cw slavery, implied abuse, omegaverse]

[lucy-ghoul]

still baffled that one popular anti-dany argument pre s8 was that since she was wearing black she leaning toward the Dark Side™...... as if in the same series another unambigously heroic protagonist didn't enlist into the night's guard where everyone must wear black, and the series' author wasn't explicitly against this kind of stereotypical tropes lmao

[canonaspecswag]

Canon Aspec Swag Showdown: Data Soong vs Murderbot

Data Soong from Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987). Data is an android and has no sexual attraction or desire. You can read about him as ace representation here and here

vs

Murderbot from The Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells. Murderbot is a bot-human construct, made from cloned human genetic material and robotic parts. It has human emotions but is sex and romance repulsed.

"Martha Wells: When I was working on the first novella, it didn't seem logical that a SecUnit would be given any kind of reproductive system or any human parts that weren't directly useful for its security function. And the way Murderbot feels about humans, it didn't seem logical for its personality that it would identify with any one gender, or be interested in choosing a human gender for itself, and it sure wouldn't be interested in human sexual relations. So in a way I guess it was a coincidence, since I didn't plan it from the start, it was just part of the process of developing the character as I was writing. And thank you!"

[kittykatninja321]

I went “I’m not into this but let’s hear them out” on one too many omegaverse fics and now I have thoughts and opinions and headcanons and shit. Horrifying. Please be careful it could happen to you

[thepariahcontinuum]

No deconstruction of the Magical Girl show genre is complete until it has them meet a Sentai team and be appropriately outraged that: "These guys get OSHA compliant costumes, with actual helmets and we're over fighting demons in school uniforms! Wtf?"

[musical-chick-13]

I think people who pick one character from AsoIaF/GoT to be The Protagonist are missing the point, because pretty much all of the characters think THEY are The Protagonist™ and that’s ultimately what screws them over.

(I also want to preface this by saying that that’s the reason I find these characters so interesting, and that this is not meant to insult any of them. I LOVE this story, and this is one of the many reasons why.)

Cersei thinks she’s the Villain Protagonist™ of a gritty drama. Even if it doesn’t make sense for things to work out for her, she assumes they will, seeing everyone around her as faceless idiots serving her narrative. Anyone and everyone will betray her because that’s what always happens in stories like this, so she won’t give them a chance to ever get there. People will move the way she assumes they will; everyone is predictable and stupid and shallow and cowardly. And as such, no one possesses the necessary skills to take her down. If she’s more ruthless and ambitious and paranoid than everyone else, she’ll get what she wants. But that’s not how life actually works, so all she does is alienate those around her, even necessary allies. People aren’t always predictable, not all of them are compliant or subservient or easily-frightened or incompetent. And if you prioritize ruthlessness and distrust, the people who aren’t those things aren’t going to see any reason to keep you around or give you aid.

Jaime thinks he’s a Cynical Misunderstood Antihero. He doesn’t need to work on bettering himself or de-internalizing his violent impulses, because he’s not the problem, it’s society, it’s people’s incorrect assessment of him. Look, he made a friend in Brienne, that must mean he’s not all bad, right? He thinks this story ends in a Public Image Rehabilitation, but he still conflates love with violence, and he still has a fucked up relationship with consent, he’s arrogant to a fault, he still insults Brienne (and just about everyone else) when the opportunity presents itself, and he never bothers trying to change that. And it’s all of this that prevents him from every truly becoming a good person. He’s so mired in this idea of being misunderstood that he doesn’t make a concerted effort to prove that he actually is. People think he’s an oath-breaker, that he has too big of an ego, that he doesn’t care about the people he swore to protect, and he thinks that simply going, “Yeah, but they don’t have the whole picture” is enough in and of itself to prove them wrong because, in a lot of stories, it is. But all his behavior does is cement his reputation as these things.

Dany thinks she’s The Chosen One, which means whatever she does is automatically the right decision. People will accept her rule because it’s hers, she deserves it, it’s morally right. All of her enemies are blanketedly wrong on all accounts in all cases. Her goals supersede anyone else’s because those goals are the way to a Happy Ending, and she doesn’t consider that other people might not see it that way. Many people’s gripes with her stem from gross places like misogyny or wanting to continue keeping slaves, but she forgets to acknowledge that some people’s issues with her might actually be valid. And that The Chosen One is actually a terrifying idea to people outside that person’s immediate personal context. She has three sentient WMDs, essentially. And if she thinks that using them is always morally correct, that the fallout from doing so can’t possibly be a problem because she’s using them and it’s for a noble cause, you end up with what happened in Astapor; and you end up with Drogon killing a child in Mereen and, eventually, her demise at the end of the show.

Sansa starts out thinking she’s an Optimistic Child Hero in a fairytale. This leads to her being held captive at court (she trusted that the authority figures were benevolent), writing a letter to her family that almost comes back to bite her to a deadly degree once her sister finds out in the show (she thought she could solve everything herself via a peaceful resolution), and to her trusting a complete monster of a boy until it’s too late (she thought he was Prince Charming). She thinks that being the Soft, Beautiful Heroine means people will love her and everything will end nicely and neatly, but sometimes instead of “love”, people just take advantage of you. And sometimes their reaction to your beauty isn’t innocent appreciation-sometimes you end up with Littlefinger. (Or Tyrion or The Hound who...let’s just leave it at “they have their own issues,” especially book-wise.) This morphs into assuming that a fairytale-esque betrayal will befall her with every new person she meets. It’s why she defends Petyr after his murder of Lysa, and it’s why she doesn’t leave with Brienne; if she’s going to be betrayed anyway, she might as well at least stick with a villain she understands.

Ned thinks he’s the Noble Hero in a typical fantasy series. He doesn’t consider everyone else’s capacity for cruelty or the idea that honor alone might not be enough. Sometimes there are no perfect choices, sometimes mercy does not give you the end goal you envisioned, and sometimes you can try your best and that can all be undone by one impulsive, unforeseeable action. You can’t honor your way out of ruthless political conflict.

Robb thinks he’s a Romantic War Hero, and thus everything will magically work out for him. His ideals and his marriage will conquer everything. But he broke a marriage promise to a powerful family, and that has consequences. The world won’t bend to his will, not even if he is doing the right thing or has noble goals, not even if he’s had war success, not even if the people at home love him, not even if he’s in love (show) or doing the most honorable thing he can (books). He thinks that being the hero means he can make it through Westeros without having to play the game, and he gets murdered for it.

Theon thinks he’s an Underdog Outcast Hero. He’ll come up from behind with an unsuspecting War Victory, and that will earn him respect, the love of his family, and a legacy he can look back on with pride. And that mindset leads him to murder two children, to drive away any allies and good grace he had at Winterfell, and the reason that the War Victory he imagined was so unexpected is because it’s completely untenable. He gets more and more desperate and it’s increasingly harder and harder to hold onto the control he’s managed to obtain. He has reasons for wanting this that make sense, and he’s been dealt a pretty bad hand in life, and he thinks that’s and his determination to overcome his personal identity struggles is enough to not only justify his actions, but ensure that those actions will be successful. And then his plan blows up in his face, he assumes he’s been miraculously saved (probably still having something to do with seeing himself as The Unexpected Hero), and ends up at Ramsay’s mercy.

Arya thinks she’s a Badass Heroine in the making, a skilled swordslady and Rebellious Princess who’s destined for more than this stuffy life of politics and dresses and formalities. But rebelling isn’t always enough. It doesn’t help with the Mycah situation, and she still needs to rely on others’ help in getting out of the city after Ned is executed. When she does try to embrace the “fully self-sufficient sword lady” idea while with the Faceless Men in Braavos, she is told to functionally discard her identity completely. She does an unauthorized kill because she, not her assassin-persona-in-training, wants to (though the victim’s identity differs in books and show), which leads to her being temporarily blinded and prevented from going on assassination missions, and outright forced to beg for food in the show. In the show, after being reinstated as an apprentice, she is tasked with killing an innocent person, refuses (rebels), and realizes that this life is one she can’t handle. She goes home, and her heading straight for her sword is one of the things that almost completely ruins her relationship with Sansa. In the upcoming Winds of Winter release, her chapter excerpt has her prioritizing revenge over her apprentice duties, and she remarks that her new identity is ruined with this rebellious action. When you rebel, there are consequences-this doesn’t change just because your intentions are good or because you are or think you are important.

Jon thinks, similarly to Ned, that he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing, that following The Code is paramount. He thinks that, because he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing with the maximum amount of good for everyone will always be a workable option, and that the heroic option will always yield the best result. This is why he thinks proclaiming his love to Ygritte in the show will end well (because love is good and conquers everything) and is, instead, shot by her several times. It’s why he doesn’t foresee a mutiny in either medium, which leads to his (temporary) death. (Let’s be real, he’s getting resurrected in the books, too, this is the one thing I’m sure of.) Because yes, everything is tense and he’s on bad terms with the Watch, but surely they wouldn’t go that far. It’s rough going, and he has to juggle the needs of several widely different groups of people, but he’s doing the right thing and that will win out; his conviction will protect him, at least for the time being while he tries to manage the bigger threat of the White Walkers. The real fight is with them, the mysterious overarching enemy, not within his own ranks. This is a story where everyone puts aside their differences to fight a greater threat-except for the times when it isn’t.

Even Catelyn isn’t immune, as she assumes that Petyr, since he’s her childhood friend, is invested in solving the mystery of what happened to Bran when he tells her the dagger used in the attack was Tyrion’s. Lysa is her sister, she can’t possibly be suspicious. She thinks the Lannisters are evil, her instincts tell her that they were behind everything, she’s the Protective Mother Heroine, so she must be right. But although she is to a certain extent correct, that’s not the complete picture. And this slightly-misplaced confidence leads her to arrest Tyrion, the retaliation of which is Tywin siccing his forces on her homeland, one of the major first steps in the upcoming political war. Then, her continued focus on saving her children-something that must take precedence because they are her children, and this is her story-leads her to taking Walder Frey’s supposed offer of a fix-it solution for Robb breaking his marital pledge at face value, despite House Frey’s reputation, and despite this neat resolution seeming far too good to be true. She’s so focused on the Lannisters-the Obvious Endgame Enemy-that she doesn’t consider the possibility of betrayal from the Freys. She thinks that the world is giving her a break-because she is so desperately looking for one, because she deserves one, because her family deserves one, and those are reasons enough for her to have one-that she doesn’t even bother to re-evaluate the situation until it’s too late.

Melisandre thinks she’s a Religious Hero, but she ends up burning a child alive and alienating one of her few remaining allies in the process (and Davos was barely an ally to begin with). She thinks she’s Doing What Needs To Be Done to serve her savior, but it hurts Stannis more than it helps him, and he just ends up being murdered by Brienne. This is obviously in the show only (at least at this point), and I don’t know if Stannis is going to burn Shireen in the books or not. Stannis thinks he’s the Lawful Hero, and thus, because according to law he’s the Rightful Ruler, anything he does is automatically excusable; he’s just righting a wrong. And in the process, he imprisons his closest friend, has a hand in murdering his brother (when kinslaying is one of the most universally hated breaches of conduct in this fictional universe), allies with a dangerous woman that much of his own court despises, and, in the show, murders his only child and drives away most of the rest of his remaining team.

They all think that, since they are the main characters of their own stories, that they’re the main character of the larger, overarching narrative. That having understandable reasons or sympathetic qualities or even just having a clear goal that they desperately want, that’s enough to cement their importance. And they think that means that they’re justified in everything they do, that everything will work out for them, that the consequences will be lesser for them than for others, because that’s what it’s like to be the main character. The whole point is that there is not A Protagonist™ and that maybe we should examine why a story needs A Protagonist™ in the first place and what that narrative tradition tells us. When GRRM said he turned down adaptation offers because they only wanted to focus on Jon and Dany, this is why.

[the-lark-ascending69]

Robin spent years being obsessive, resentful and jealous over the Steve and Tammy situation. Ik she's friends with Steve but I need her to be obsessive now too. I need her to be obsessively in love with Nancy, I need her to be angry and jealous and dark. Because with Tammy, she didn't say "I liked her" she said "i wanted her to look at me", she wanted Tammy to see her and like her and she wanted her to be hers, and she didn't waste time telling herself she shouldn't want her - she just wanted. Like she wants Nancy to look at her now.

But once again, the object of her affections only has eyes for Steve. It's never her. It's always fucking Steve.

[imminent-danger-came]

The struggle of trying to recommend Lego Monkie Kid to people is that you have to be like “it’s only going to be slightly above mid at the beginning, but you gotta trust me and stick with it”. Like don’t get me wrong, A Hero is Born and season 1 are super enjoyable, but that narrative spice doesn’t really start hitting until 1x09 and Revenge of the Spider Queen. But, in another sense it’s also kinda important that the show is only slightly above mid monster of the week at the beginning, it gives room to get familiar with the characters and establish a baseline. I don’t really know how else to put it into words

It’s also like, the whole show being Legos adds to it thematically (the same stories being significant time and time again in whatever way they’re told), like you can’t change it. But how do you explain that to someone

[stackslip]

the difference between bleach and a lot of 90s/2000s shounen is that it had elements of truly excellent, subtle writing and compelling female characters who had interesting relationships between one another, which is what makes its downfall into the worlds most boring typical battle shounen that much more of a tragedy

[pencilofawesomeness]

Question how would Daphne be treated in the papalogia au? Because in the story it would be a 100% confirmation that the dragon she say is acno. Also with how obsessed she was I am shocked she didn't have a dragon slayer lacrima.

I've been overthinking this ask for a week now lol.

Okay so. In terms of the Magnolia area, and really all of Fiore, I don't think anything would change. Acnologia is still the only dragon to be spotted, and even though he's flying around, he does make an effort to not be seen. Arguably, he's making more of an effort that canon-Acnologia, who simply did not care. That said, there may or may not be other dragon sightings in other parts of the world, so Daphne may be bolstered in her obsession with dragons all the same.

I don't think it would equate to her getting a lacrima though. Not only are those suckers hard to find and risky, her fascination strikes me as... a mix between scientific and fanatic. Her love and obsession with dragons and learning about them, as well as proving them real, supersedes most rational thought and morals. I mean, she was totally cool in using Natsu as a battery, and given the opportunity, she would have poked at him more I am sure. She seems to me like the Mr. Crocker of Fairy Tail, except with the room to be really amoral and scary for it.

Some peeps know this already but I have flirted with, and sometimes am still flirting with, the idea of a mini arc involving Daphne, except if fanaticism was just a bit more dangerous. The fact that there is a bit more evidence of dragons out there, but the dragon slayers are more tight-lipped about dragons and their own magic in Magnolia, is enough to drive someone like that bonkers. I still don't have solid ideas for this so it may or may not happen in htryds at all; I just... really like mad scientist psycho antagonists, so if I ever get struck by inspiration and want to hit a dragon slayer or three with a really spiky stick... Consider this a forewarning >.>

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

We as a fandom don’t talk enough about how Game of Thrones decided to combine Jon Snow and Young Griff into one character and how that was absolutely ridiculous on like 1000 different levels. Because how do you combine two characters who are FOILS to one another and then play it completely straight?! Then to make matters worse they gave Jon the boy’s stupid name?! Goddamnit I knew they didn’t get Jon as a character pretty early on, but why mesh his arc with the one guy you shouldn’t combine with? 😭

[redstonedust]

still obsessed with the divorce quartet from double life btw. they did everything i would ever want out of soulmate aus by picking the trope up by its neck and hurtling out of a window at mach 10 /lh