#defender for cloud

[allpiesforourown]

Why is Andrea straight up lying

[paperkoifish]

祇想一生跟你走

Extra↓

I liked the artstyle (new favorite brush wahoo!!) just rlly unfortunate i didnt like pretty much everything about this piece :pp it did change alot compared to the draft didnt stick to the vision.. I lost sight of the grind

[robylovi]

From Give Your Hand To Me (Say Goodbye) by Mytay (@thisgirlhastales)

That’s part two of the series Adjust Orbit and Velocity which follows up on different points in Objects In Motion (When Unbalanced) WHICH BTW IS SO FUCKING CUTE AND FUNNY, PIDGE IS DONE WITH EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE BUT IT’S FOR SCIENCE, I CANNOT RECCOMEND IT ENOUGH

+ sketch for the scene immediately after this:

huge fan of the ‘I need to be SEDATED’ response to having a crush

[iamurpaladin]

Lance is grumpy in a twink way and keith is grumpy in a 'waking up a sleeping bear' way send tweet

[qoldenskies]

cc!leo and the way love and distrust go hand in hand for him. how he guards his own heart in an attempt to protect the person he cares about the most and that's his own undoing-- how that's both of their undoing. how he sees trust on donnie's end as too much, something he doesn't deserve and something he took for granted. how out of everything that's the one thing he will never ask for, and he's so quick to withhold information to protect donnie's heart in turn (hell, he does it to raph too, and by taking leadership he's quicker to hold up the weight on his own instead of sharing it).

and how this contrasts with how leo before this point spent his whole life begging for the trust of others, for his family to just believe in him for once. and now he fails to see the independence he's developed as a sign that his trust in other people, and in donnie, has been broken, and because of that he doesn't realize that it hurts them until he has to confront it violently head-on. (he doesn't even realize that in a lot of ways its the other side of the coin from how he was under the curse)

it is almost one am. ummmmmmm

[maybefranky]

so close

[angell-castiglione]

Alright, imma be a lot more blunt than I normally am because I’m tired of this shit.

There’s no law that says you hafta listen to the extremely flawed podcast that outlines the allegations against Neil Gaiman, but pretending it’s a conspiracy based on 0% evidence doesn’t make him not a predator, it makes you ignorant of the case against him at best, and an enabler or conspiracy theorist at worst.

And for the love of Christ, keep trans people out your fuckin mouth while you’re defending that piece of shit. He’s not one of us, we don’t claim him, and using us as an excuse for why the very credible allegations aren’t valid puts us in line of fire of those TERFs. Using us to protect your fav doesn’t make you an ally, it makes you an active threat. Do better.

[sixisnotaprettynumber]

This might be a controversial opinion but I think the possession scenes in s2 were not only necessary for Ben’s character but also the characterizations of the Hargreeves’ siblings in general, if only because it re-establishes two of the main issues that they struggle with due to the abuse they suffered as children - being unable to comprehend autonomy and struggling with gaining (and lacking) control.

From the beginning of s1 it’s shown that despite the majority of the siblings’ strained relationship with Reginald, they all still play the parts he assigned to them well into adulthood - Luther is the ever-loyal golden child, Diego is competitive and rebellious but is still playing hero through his vigilante work, Allison has completely leaned into the fame that her powers and the Academy got her, Klaus is the failure that never managed to reach his true potential and Viktor is still ordinary. And when Reginald (while unbeknownst to the siblings) creates a plan for them all to return home and band together, they ultimately end up following through.

We don’t get to really see this with Ben though. Sure, he gets onto Klaus about his addiction - but that’s not a control thing, that’s just because he loves his siblings’ and wants his brother to be safe and healthy, right?

And to an extent the answer is yes. Obviously he loves Klaus. Obviously he wants the best for him. But I think that it’s telling that Ben’s method of trying to get Klaus sober relies on prioritizing other people - specifically himself. In fact, his main argument for Klaus getting sober is because his addiction makes Ben feel like he has no input or control.

And while it comes across as being self-centered, it (in my opinion) shows that the siblings’ genuinely view having some sort of control/input to be important - and they equally expect the others’ to understand why they are upset when they don’t have it.

This leads directly into the possession issue in s2. Ben - who’s been dead for seventeen years, whose Dad methodically stripped away his and his siblings autonomy as children, whose sister literally has the power to make people do whatever they want, whose body acts as a host/portal for a horrifically violent eldritch being - sees an opportunity for control. And he takes it! Because obviously. Who wouldn’t?

While we the audience know that behavior is wrong and invasive - the Hargreeves’ don’t. Their idea of privacy and free will - and honestly just ethics in general - is super screwed up. Even Diego - whose strong moral compass is one of the biggest aspects of his character - doesn’t view Ben possessing Klaus as wrong. To him, it’s a joke at best and irritating to Klaus at worse. It’s a part of a bigger pattern seen with the siblings throughout the show.

Losing autonomy is just normal to them. It doesn’t even cross their minds that they’re being cruel to one another - this is especially true when it comes to Ben and Klaus’s relationship! They aren’t trying to hurt each other in s2 (for the most part), they’re trying to annoy one another - they just grew up in an environment where they never learned where the line was.

Now, I’m just going to end this here because otherwise I’d just keep rambling on about how this relates to the lack of boundaries between the siblings (specifically Klaus and Ben) in general or how it reflects Ben’s view of the horror or a million other different things. Thanks for reading if you’ve made it this far - but I don’t blame anyone who didn’t.

[bobbydidmytaxes]

It's too bad that not many people talk about the Cloud/Bobby Defenders storyline anymore (it used to be a HUGE tentpole for the closeted!bobby theorists ages and ages ago haha) because there are parts of it that are legitimately beautiful to me. Like, I literally cried the first time I saw the panel with the line "In a few million years, you'll shine through the heavens as I give back to the universe the light you've given me" because that was such a devastatingly romantic concept to me.

It's also particularly lovely to me because loneliness is such a huge aspect of Bobby's character; in fact his solo series Iceman 1984 is pretty much all about his corrosive sense of loneliness and desperation for meaning. And yet here's Cloud--a powerful cosmic entity--telling Bobby that he's so beloved and cherished that the universe itself will remember him millions of years from now. It's so sweet, my god.

[zap-citizen]

[quintessentialgaymutant]

Iceman Queer History and Analysis Part 2- The New Defenders

The Defenders have historically been an underlooked team, usually filled in by B or C list Marvel heroes that often did not fit in other books. Upon Claremont’s triumphant relaunch of the Uncanny X-Men titles, many of the Silver Age pieces of the X-Men books were either written out or retconned into something that allowed for more depth. Famous examples include Magneto being a holocaust survivor as opposed to the moustache twirling villain he was; Jean Grey being the most powerful of the X-Men, and Scott Summers' origin being masterfully concocted by the dreaded Mr. Sinister.

Bobby, Hank and Warren were largely written out of the X-Men titles during this time, and often floundered in secondary, underlooked teams like The Defenders, and The Champions before that. J.M Dematteis was the main writer of The Defenders for a long time, and was transitioning out of the book in the mids 80s, around the same time he was writing the Iceman mini series analyzed in the last post.

Replacing Dematteis is a writer by the name of Peter B Gillis, who similarly to the book itself, to me, feels like an underlooked writer at Marvel to this day. He was incredibly ahead of his time and his contributions to queer visibility during a time when queerness was null and invisible in mainstream comics, often goes underappreciated. 

Upon his takeover, the book was rebranded into The New Defenders, and he was given a fresh cast of characters, which included Beast, Angel, Iceman Valkyrie, Moondragon and Cloud, amongst others. It should be noted that the last 4 characters are now canon queer characters and I believe it’s safe to say that Gillis’ work paved the way for that development. 

The central, connective piece of queerness amongst the cast is a character by the name of Cloud. Cloud, initially in Dematteis’ run, was a new character he had just introduced to the book, before he left the title. He has stated that he never got to do much with her but it was Gillis who developed her true origins and character conflict, soon after he took over the book from Dematteis (Graymalkin Lane, 2022). 

An important piece of queer comics trivia: Cloud’s story was inspired by a real life trans woman who was friends with Peter B Gillis, and he used that perspective to explore sexuality in the book, using a science fiction angle, and apparently he had to fight editorial quite hard to do this (Hedge Coke, 2018).

Using science fiction to explore queerness is rather well documented in comics, a lot of queer depictions of love or gender fluidity often involve aliens, shapeshifters, deities or gods. Characters like Xavin, Mystique, Morph, Loki, etc all have some roots with this schema. This approach allows writers to explore queer themes rather explicitly, while hiding under the veil of fantasy, in order to separate reality and fiction, and not alienate homophobic audiences. 

Marvel's beloved and first ever gay relationship of Wiccan and Hulkling was initially conceptualized with Hulkling being a shapeshifting alien who would have a similar narrative that Cloud had; he would question his gender identity due to his feelings for Wiccan. The gay writer who created Hulkling and Wiccan: Alan Heinberg, thought this was the only way he could convey a gay couple, that the editors and audiences would never accept an actual gay couple, fortunately he was incorrect (The Gay Times, 2011). Early stories like The New Defenders, likely paved the way for a cultural shift that allowed queer stories to go from plausibly deniable fantasy fiction queer, to explicitly queer.

The fantasy/science fiction approach may seem a bit regressive but this was the best many writers could do, especially in the 80s, when simply being openly queer could get you put in jail, lynched or disowned. 

Thus, viewing these choices with a modern lens, while useful, may undermine realities of the time these stories took place; realities that set the foundation for the progress we have today. 

The fact that this story and character were inspired by a real trans woman, and used to explore non normative (queer) sexual desires is an important piece of queer comics history, and set the stage for the canon representation and exploration of Iceman and Moondragon as queer characters down the line. With that aside, let’s dive into Cloud’s conflict, expression of gender, and how that relates to Bobby and contributed to his queer readings. 

Under Dematteis' pen, Cloud was little more than a beautiful young girl, wearing little to no clothing, with a seemingly tragic past. A point that stuck was Cloud’s immediate telepathic rapport with Moondragon, a woman known as a supervillain and adversary of the Avengers. Cloud could see that Moondragon was so much more than that and broke the proverbial ice with her in ways no one else on the team was willing to do.

Under Gillis’ pen, Cloud eventually fell in love with Moondragon, depicting one of the earliest portrayals of a same sex love confession.

Moondragon did not seem to be disturbed by this as she grew up in an advanced civilization, however, Cloud felt like there was something fundamentally wrong with the feelings of loving a woman as a woman herself, so she uses her powers to transform into a beautiful man, who would be as equally naked most of the time. 

Cloud felt a sense of self in both gendered forms, and would switch between them on whim, stating that their internal being was static regardless of how they presented themselves, and most of the team embraced Cloud regardless. Cloud still struggled with their feelings though, they loved Moondragon, and still held some internalized belief that there was something to be ashamed of in loving her, and switching genders.

Thus, Gillis explores queer feelings of identity, love and desire, as he explicitly stated he wanted to do, using Cloud and their powers. 

Bobby is immediately extremely conflicted and rejects Cloud’s switching of genders and gets visibility uncomfortable whenever Cloud switches to a man.

What’s interesting about Bobby’s reaction is this is also the point where he starts catching feelings for Cloud. When Cloud was a nearly naked, hot blonde woman constantly around him, he paid Cloud little to no attention, beyond teasing Cloud for the constant sunbathing. But now, after the fact of knowing that Cloud can also turn into a gorgeous man, he has developed a romantic interest in Cloud. 

This paints the picture of a complicated man who is very much wrestling with queer desire. Bobby likes Cloud but he is also deeply uncomfortable, both with Cloud and his feelings for them, specifically because Cloud switches gender, and only after it is revealed that Cloud can do this. He is nervous when she becomes a boy. Not disgusted, nervous. Yet, he only develops feelings for her after the fact. 

The scene above is quite daunting as Cloud breaks down, their inner conflict of desire and gender expression is causing them a lot of emotional distress, Bobby hears Cloud screaming and goes in to their room to comfort them. Cloud changes into their male form to prove their point and he immediately jumps away. As he leaves he calls himself a hypocrite.

And thus, the parallel is made; as Bobby has feelings for someone in ways that goes against his enforced gendered scripts outlined in the previous post, and a character whose entire existence is a challenge due to preconceived gendered scripts. 

Cloud feels like they can’t be loved or helped due to their conflict with gender and feelings for Moondragon, and Bobby feels like a hypocrite because of his inability to accept Cloud, despite his own conflicting feelings that also go against prescribed gender scripts. Cloud hates themself and Bobby hates that he loves someone who could also be a man:

The resolution to Bobby’s conflict in this story comes with some acceptance of what Cloud is and his complicated desire for them. Once Cloud’s origins are revealed and they leave for the cosmos, they paint a picture of Bobby and both forms of Cloud.

Bobby doesn’t object this time.

This is illustrated again, when a possessed Moondragon uses both versions of Cloud’s human vessels to torture Bobby, he manages to save them, but the fact that Moondragon used both instead of the default female form, is quite telling.

Ultimately, as Gillis himself stated, this run was meant to depict non normative and complicated ideas around sexuality. His exact quote, along with his motivation for writing Cloud stemming from his trans friend, can be seen here: 

This exploration of non normative sexuality, and Bobby being at the centre of it, specifically after the fact that Cloud was revealed to also have an attractive male form, is something that resonated with queer readers deeply at the time. 

Even Mike Carey himself confirmed that he saw Bobby as queer due to this Cloud storyline, and leaned into that in his writing, which is what prompted another shapechanger: Mystique being a tormenting love interest for Bobby. She threatens to show up “in a different body” to catch him off guard in the "Manifest Destiny" storyline, hinting at his complicated feelings around queer desire. 

In the end, this was a big deal, to have a story like this with 3 different characters connected and woven in, in their own ways. It fed deeper into the theory that Bobby could be closeted: he has complicated feelings for a character meant to embody divergent narratives of sexuality and gender, in addition to his previous characterization showcasing his need to default to normalized scripts around gender and sexuality. He is challenged with this and this won’t be the last time his discomfort over this challenge comes up.

Queer fans again, saw their experiences in him. They saw a man with conflicting feelings on sexuality, and societal expectations. They saw a man who desperately wanted to be normal and often was suffocated and folded into scripts that didn’t actually fit him. They saw a man accepting that he might have feelings for someone who might be a man, and only after it was revealed that they could be a man. 

So they took to sending fan mail to address this. Is Bobby closeted? Could he be? The impacts of these fan letters will be in the next essay!

Peter B Gillis passed away in 2024, but the impacts of his work live on. He challenged the status quo during a time when it was incomprehensible to do so. We’ll never know if he actually intended Bobby to be queer, but nontheless, the reading queer fans had was only cemented after this seminal run of The New Defenders. 

References

Graymalkin Lane. (2022). The New Defenders interview with J.M Dematteis. Retrieved from: https://redcircle.com/shows/cc9f4c23-aacd-41ff-bf92-3c09b082391d/episodes/4156916e-0e89-43c1-98d6-cd21a1cea6fd

Hedge Coke (2018). A Conversation with Peter Gillis. Retrieved from: https://travishedgecoke.substack.com/p/a-conversation-with-peter-b-gillis

The Gay Times. (2011). Alan Heinberg- The Gay Times Interview. Retrieved from: https://comicviews.livejournal.com/12843.html

Additional info:

Mike Carey’s comment:

[episims]

Alison *mumbles* "At least Chase won't make you listen to endless bacteria jokes."

Alison "...Who the hell you are?"

Blair "Name's Blair and I could be asking the same." Does the old man do hookers? "Craig's home, I suppose, if it's him you're looking for."

Alison "Eh, of course. Another edgy plantsim tenant, wherever he even finds your kind. This doesn't concern you, girl."

Blair "Sheesh, I only happened to be downstairs. I've got no interest in messing up your business with him."

Blair "Uhh... darn, senior. Did your comb get tangled up?"

[ogre0011]

Shout out to Defenders (2021) for having these be the first page of each. I love weird rag tag groups of characters no one cares about (except strange ig)

[nowwithgaypheromones]

So now that the video's been out for a day does anyone on rlmblr have any actual idea what the hell Mike's beef with libraries even is. Because frankly I still don't get what in the world that section was about

[my-current-obsession]

I ask this as a Clerith fan myself - why are so many people up in arms about Tifa "lying" in her GS date? I'm not even sure what people are referring to when they say that. If it's when she denied talking to Aerith about Zack... Aerith literally lied about the EXACT same thing to Cloud and no one calls her out about it.

Obviously the context of Cloud bringing up the issue in the first place is quite different with both girls - with Aerith he's wanting to know where they stand and if he can pursue her or if he should give up. While with Tifa he's still focused on Aerith instead of the girl he's with, which makes this date and his extreme (frankly OOC) actions come across as a rebound because he feels like he has no chance with the girl he's really interested in. But that said, I interpret the lie itself as the same from both girls - they know Cloud's memory is unreliable and digging too much into the topic of Zack might make him MORE unstable, so they dodge the issue. Also maybe a secondary reason of lying to keep the mood light/romantic, instead of bogging it down with something heavy.

If it's in response to what she says after Cloud wonders about Aerith still having feelings for Zack... that's up to interpretation, I guess. PERSONALLY, I would take her responding "It's more complicated than that" as dodging the question at worst or even a soft, implied disagreement with Cloud at best. It would be incredibly easy and simple to just say, "Yes, she still likes him." That's NOT what Tifa says, even though to an extent it might be true (Aerith makes it obvious that she's fallen for Cloud by the end of the game, but she MIGHT still love Zack too. You can love more than one person at a time. It's just unclear if that's the case for her or not).

We know from the scene on the ship heading towards Costa del Sol that Tifa and Aerith wanted to talk about love and boys, but it was postponed. But it's also clear they're spending a LOT of time together trying to hash out what's going on with Cloud and generally opening up to each other as friends off-screen, so I think it's safe to say they DID have this conversation eventually. I believe by the chapter 12 date, both girls are fully aware that they EACH like Cloud romantically, but for the most part they care enough about each other as friends to put aside rivalry/jealousy.

Tifa's response of "It's more complicated than that" just feels like the honest truth to me. Does Aerith still have feelings for Zack? Yeah, maybe. But she also undeniably has feelings for Cloud. And Tifa, on a date with the man she ALSO loves, doesn't want to lie but also can't bring herself to say that whole truth (also it's not really her truth to say? Confessing for someone else is messed up in its own right NGL) when doing so would almost certainly kill her own chances with Cloud.

I honestly feel sorry for her in her date. I read the situation as her trying to be as honest as she can without quite literally triggering Cloud or spilling Aerith's secrets, while Cloud, AT BEST is acting out a role with her and being the suave hero who he thinks she wants (which is arguably true, but let's not get into whether Tifa wants the "real" Cloud here) instead of his true awkward self (thus no actual progress in their relationship is made, since everything was just an act on his part). And AT WORST is outright using her as a rebound.

Seriously, what are you all mad at HER for?

[ride-thedragon]

One thing I do think is looked over is Daemon not caring about Rhaena because she doesn't have a dragon because I don't think that's what was happening at that time. She says Daemon ignores her, and Laena says he's doing his best.

Daemon is ignoring her because he can't tell her that she has to claim her right because that would mean they'd go back to Westeros for her to get the chance. That is something he is greatly opposed to at this point. It's obviously not something that is set in stone as well until that point because Laena assumes he'd tell her, and she'd learn it from both of them. Daemon ignores her because he can't look at his daughter in the face and say she has to claim a dragon, but he doesn't want to go. He can't explain that to her.

I'm not here to defend Daemon because why would I, but I do think this point at that part in the story is often misinterpreted.