#despite both works are not written by non mlm

[yearnoyama]

I think we should talk about how western queer media are acknowledged as revolutionary and realistic good queer rep no matter how problematic some parts are, while asian queer media (bls and and sometimes gls) as a whole, despite their wholesome parts, will always be generalized as weird and fetishizing due to its few rotten eggs of the coop or maybe that's just me ig

[writing-plurals]

Amazing that I found your account! I've been wondering about this thing.

For the past four years I've been working on and off on this book

In the book everyone has some sort of thing that kind of hampers them in the human world, but helps them in their world- kind of like how in Percy Jackson, a lot of demigods have dyslexia and adhd

These hampering things are different for almost everyone and they're often related to a power or ability that you have. A person who has telekinesis may "hear voices" and person who can prophesize things may have an ungodly horrible sleep schedule

One character in particular just blacks out

The idea with her was basically that she has this "side" thar whenever it senses she's in danger, shows up and whoops ass.

This version of her is clearly not her doing the things and then immediately forgetting she'd done them. Her friends make comments about this version of her acting very different, when she isn't in control of her body, she makes comments as to what it feels like. She counts how long she's there for, then, as if nothings happened, she's whipped back into reality

Now with this character, in the beginning, I really didn't want her to be a system. I'm not sure how I convinced myself she wasn't, but now that I've began to understand my own system, understand what's happening, it's pretty obvious she's a system. The only problem is, no matter how much she really hates her mom, she isn't traumatized. Not by her mom or anything else, it's literally a point in the story that all of her childhood was her parents keeping her safe from bad things. There's not really any room for truama

Especially nothing serious enough and that would occur at a young enough age for her to develop did or osdd

Now don't get me wrong, I support systems formed outside of truama, but the last thing I want is for the first book that I've ever written that wasn't a picture book to be a catalyst of a bunch of discourse, I also feel there aren't many clear representatives of did or osdd in the media, and even less that are actually good or accurate

Personally, as someone who identifies with endo system (despite beginning to wonder if undiagnosed osdd is a possibility) I genuinely just think it's only fair that the disordered people are tended to first, then, once I feel they've been represented, I can then chose to represent the non disordered

So my question to you is what you think I should do?

Should I continue with this character not being a system and just this being the magic of that world that causes the weird split

Or should I go back into her backstory and find somewhere to fit the truama needed to make this character representative

(And I just realized this but she's the only character I have really that isn't that representative of anything else the rest of the main cast

Mixed (black and white) + Bisexual + Adhd

Mixed (Asian and white) + FtM + MLM/demisexual + depression

A literal robot + nonbinary + panromantic + has traits similar to autism but I wouldn't call it autistic cause it's a robot

Mixed (black and asian) + agender + schizophrenia

They're all mixed bc they're all mixed with the things I'm mixed with shhh 😔

But like this character

White + heterosexual + Cisgender + literally nothing else interesting about her other than that blackout-different-person thingy

So yeah, theres also that

Hmmm, think of representation like a kinda pie being made for a holiday meal. Just cuz you made a pumpkin pie (endogenic system rep), doesn't mean other ppl can't go out and get what they need for apple or banana cream pie. There's plenty of space for both kinds of stories to exist. The same way just cuz tv has few long running lesbian shows doesn't stop gay ones being made.

Endogenic systems' stories deserve to be told too, and it's okay to wanna tell it with what you have set up. It's not being insensitive to represent one marginalized group over another.

As for other headmates you mentioned, I'm a little too white to help with that, so maybe our followers and other mods can help with that bit!

-Mod Tick Tock

[obligatorilypretentious]

queer classic book recs!!

Image description under the cut! Please tell me if I did something wrong and I will gladly change it!

The other recs will be in the reblog!

[Each slide excluding the title screen includes 3 photos relating to the book, largely alternative covers of each in a small grid format.]

Slide One: In the center is a box with interior text reading "13 lgbtq classics and 1 “modern” classic. Recs in the comments welcome!" The top left corner includes an image of a calligraphy quill. Underneath this is text that reads "Disclaimer! The beginning of this list is.. Very White, but don't worry it gets more diverse as the books get more recent!!" In the top right corner is a text box reading "Look up trigger warnings or I’ll steal your gender! … or give it back!!" under this is a picture of an open book displayed in the foreground and another stack of books in the background.

Slide Two: Carmilla by J. Sheridan Le Fanu.

1872

Lesbian/wlw but written by a man

vampires!

“Following a near-fatal carriage collision, the beautiful young Carmilla is taken in by the narrator Laura and her father.”

While this book plays into the stereotype of the “monteress, seductive lesbian,” it is one of the oldest and most famous classical texts depicting a lesbian relationship. Toxic AF.

Slide Three: The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde

1890

not explicitly queer (subtext)

but gay (mlm) tho

“Enthralled by his own exquisite portrait, Dorian Gray exchanges his soul for eternal youth and beauty. Influenced by his friend Lord Henry Wotton, he is drawn into a corrupt double life, indulging his desires in secret while remaining a gentleman in the eyes of polite society. Only his portrait bears the traces of his decadence.”

This book contains Anti-semitism, Racism, Sexism and is honestly a product of its time. Oscar Wilde is certainly a character.

Slide Four: Orlando by Virginia Woolf

1928

sapphic/gender exploration

“The novel opens as Orlando, a young nobleman in Elizabeth's England, awaits a visit from the Queen and traces his experience with first love as England under James I lies locked in the embrace of the Great Frost.”

Main Character is racist and anti-Semitic. While her writing is incredibly important and impactful as a queer figure, she will always be white before she is queer.

Slide Five: The Well of Loneliness by Radclyffe Hall

1928

lesbian/wlw

originally banned

“Stephen is an ideal child of aristocratic parents—a fencer, a horse rider, and a keen scholar. Stephen grows to be a war hero, a bestselling writer, and a loyal, protective lover. But Stephen is a woman, and her lovers are women. As her ambitions drive her, and society confines her, Stephen is forced into desperate actions.”

This book contains racism, use of the N-word, sexism, homophobia & lots of outdated ideas in general.

Slide Six: Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin

1956

gay/mlm

“In a 1950s Paris swarming with expatriates and characterized by dangerous liaisons and hidden violence, an American finds himself unable to repress his impulses, despite his determination to live the conventional life he envisions for himself. After meeting and proposing to a young woman, he falls into a lengthy affair with an Italian bartender and is confounded and tortured by his sexual identity as he oscillates between the two.”

OMG! A classic on this list in which I can't find any evidence of racism or antisemitism! /srs. Imagine that- it's almost like POC classical authors are important to teach about! /hj

Slide Seven: Maurice by E.M. Forster

1971

gay/mlm

fluffy, but homophobia exists in the story as well.

“Maurice is heartbroken over unrequited love, which opened his heart and mind to his own sexual identity. In order to be true to himself, he goes against the grain of society’s often unspoken rules of class, wealth, and politics.”

This book contains the use of the g slur. Please tell me if I missed something!

Slide Eight: HERmione by H.D.

1981

queer/sapphic woman author

poetry

so mf sad bro I mean look at that blurb

“An interior self-portrait of the poet H.D. (1886-1961) is what can best be described as a 'find', a posthumous treasure. ‘I am Hermione Gart, a failure' -she cried in her dementia, 'I am Her, Her, Her.”

To my knowledge, this book isn't problematic- please tell me if it is though!!

Slide Nine: Zami: A New Spelling of My Name by Audre Lorde

1982

lesbian/wlw

A staple of lesbian lit from before the peak of an activist’s career. Great read.

“From the author's vivid childhood memories in Harlem to her coming of age in the late 1950s, the nature of Audre Lorde's work is cyclical. It especially relates the linkage of women who have shaped her.”

Once again to my knowledge, this book isn't problematic

Slide Ten: The Color Purple by Alice Walker

1982

features queer women

has a movie adaptation!

“Separated as girls, sisters Celie and Nettie sustain their loyalty to and hope in each other across time, distance, and silence. Through a series of letters spanning twenty years, first from Celie to God, then the sisters to each other despite the unknown, the novel draws readers into its rich and memorable portrayals of Celie, Nettie, Shug Avery, and Sofia and their experience.”

Once again to my knowledge, this book isn't problematic

Slide Eleven: Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit by Jeanette Winterson

1985

lesbian/wlw

“This is the story of Jeanette, adopted and brought up by her mother as one of God's elect. Zealous and passionate, she seems destined for life as a missionary, but then she falls for one of her converts. At sixteen, Jeanette decides to leave the church, her home, and her family, for the young woman she loves. Innovative, punchy, and tender.”

Once again to my knowledge, this book isn't problematic- but warning, there are quite heavy themes!

Slide Twelve: Dykes to Watch Out For by Alison Bechdel

1986

lesbian/wlw

a classic comedy comic + a really good insight & look into lesbian culture

“Grin, giggle, and guffaw your way through this celebrated cartoonist's graphic commentary of contemporary lesbian life.”

Once again to my knowledge, this book isn't problematic*

*contains d-slur used by lesbians in a non-offensive way

Slide Thirteen: Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg

1993

lesbian/gender identity around lesbianism

“Woman or man? This internationally acclaimed novel looks at the world through the eyes of Jess Goldberg, a masculine girl growing up in the "Ozzie and Harriet" McCarthy era and coming out as a young butch lesbian in the pre-Stonewall gay drag bars of a blue-collar town. Stone Butch Blues traces a propulsive journey, powerfully evoking history and politics while portraying an extraordinary protagonist full of longing, vulnerability, and working-class grit.”

Once again to my knowledge, this book isn't problematic

Slide Fourteen: Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters

1998

lesbian/wlw

historical romance

“Nan King, an oyster girl, is captivated by the music hall phenomenon Kitty Butler, a male impersonator extraordinaire treading the boards in Canterbury. Through a friend at the box office, Nan manages to visit all her shows and finally meet her heroine. Soon after, she becomes Kitty's dresser, and the two head for the bright lights of Leicester Square where they begin a glittering career as music-hall stars in an all-singing and dancing double act. At the same time, behind closed doors, they admit their attraction to each other and their affair begins.”

Once again to my knowledge, this book isn't problematic

Slide Fifteen: Under the Udala Trees By Chinelo Okparanta

2015

lesbian/wlw

modern classic imo, look into the coexistence of native Nigerian culture & queerness

“Ijeoma comes of age as her nation does; born before independence, she is eleven when civil war breaks out in the young republic of Nigeria. Sent away to safety, she meets another displaced child, and they, star-crossed, fall in love. They are from different ethnic communities. They are also both girls. When their love is discovered, Ijeoma learns that she will have to hide this part of herself. But there is a cost to living inside a lie.”

Once again to my knowledge, this book isn't problematic

[jonathanrook]

legally i have to give you intern 2

em you have awoken an ungodly beast inside me so i need to warn everyone that this post is. incomprehensible. but so is mymusic so i guess we're all used to it.

How I feel about this character:

i watched mymusic as it was airing/running/coming out specifically bc i'm a jack stannie, and as a kid melvin was my second favorite character (w scene being in first, obvs) for mostly that reason. he basically hovered around this ranking until my most recent rewatch in the summer of 2020, which was actually spurred by some events in my personal life that vaguely reminded me of scene's season two arc w jeff, and i thought it'd been a funny/nostalgic way to get my mind off things.

(i want to side note here that -- i know you didn't ask, but -- i love jeff. i have since i was a kid. like, obviously not as a person but i think he's honestly the best written character in the series, w indie close in second. idk what it says about the f*nes that their most interesting and well rounded characters are the villains, but i digress. to this day i'm salty that jeff never got added to the theme song and wasn't really included in promotional merch.)

however, in said rewatch, certain things about how he was written started to really get under my skin, and certain moments in particular have really stuck out to me in a negative way. like, for the entirety of season one and a good chunk of season two he's one person, and then he leaves mymusic and we have an entirely different person, but not in a nuanced character building sort of way.

i've said a few of these points before but i'll repeat them here regardless. at the risk of sounding like i've put on a tin-foil hat, it's my sneaking suspicion that scindie was supposed to be endgame, but since fan reception to it was pretty neutral, and scenechart stans were, at the very least, more vocal, changes were made to the intended finale, which is why in the last scene he's basically just. indie. like, if everything about the show was exactly the same but indie was the one who had ended up w scene in the end that would have made so much more sense since a) scene had a crush on indie that he/everyone knew about and b) indie was kind of a dick despite the half-assed attempts at redemption, so both combined make it slightly less weird/out-of-nowhere that he kisses her w/o her consent (since, even though like. implied consent is not real at worst and a fuzzy subject at best but you could argue that scene would want indie to kiss her); and this isn't even taking into consideration that c) melvin is heavily queer-coded in both seasons, with his friendship with nerdcore being, dare i say, homoerotic at times, and his arc about leaving the company and changing his name mirroring nerdcore's almost perfectly (with nerdcore being a character who b*nny [at least] has all but confirmed is actually gay).

i've also been on the fence about melvin's behavior in that final scene making more sense for indie's character being an intentional decision as a way of shoe-horning in a theme about the lasting effects of abuse/cycles of abuse/the corruption of power but i also don't think the f*nes are smart enough for that. however, for the sake of defending my straw theory, i also point to the scene where indie comes to visit the acid factory after melvin told him to shut up, and we see melvin use reggie as a foot-stool, going as far as to say that it feels good to do so (which, in all honesty, i think is a bit that was entirely improvised, since the f*nes were "notorious for never saying cut" [paraphrased from a bts video], but work w me here). he's also given a seltzer mug that perfectly resembles indie's kombucha mug. in these moment melvin is directly emulating the behavior of his previous abuser, purposefully or not, literal moments after being promoted to an equal position of authority, which was totally just included as a joke, but could also be argued is meant to show that he's becoming indie; or, if we acknowledge that the f*nes have no fucking clue what they're doing and were just directing like chickens with their heads cut off, it at least shows that melvin's new position of power is leading him to understand where indie was coming from, which is supported by their conversation in the finale.

the following contains a couple brief mentions of irl sexual assault so if that's something you'd like to avoid skip to the next section!

HOWEVER, that alone isn't what i have a problem with, since i think melvin is completely justified in being a dick to indie (and also reggie enthusiastically consents to being used as an ottoman so good for him i guess). the issue comes completely in how he treats scene in the scenes where the f*nes clearly thought what they were writing was super romantic. like, the fact that the only thing he's got hung on his cubicle wall is a single picture of scene taken from the fucking opening credits (like. how hard would it have been to have. literally any other photo[s] esp since there's an abundance of cute bts pics of the cast in costume that could have been put there) and him scrolling through her twitter at work really creep me out (and at the risk of oversharing the weird, like, social media stalking angle really fucks w me bc that may or may not have been the exact fucking thing i was trying to escape in rewatching mymusic in the first place). also, having him sexually assault scene as a means of comforting her after she had just been sexually assaulted in the same way by someone else was... a choice (which is also, uh, personally familiar).

again, i recognize that demonizing melvin wasn't what the f*nes were trying to do here, and i perhaps seem hypocritical for opening liking jeff, but what makes jeff work is he's intentionally "the bad guy." having melvin do the same things as indie and jeff uncritically only proves further that the f*nes can't write for shit, and ruins his character which had, up until he quit mymusic, been unironically good. like, it's obviously not beneficial that the exact asshole things he does are personally triggering, but the character would still be a mess and i would still dislike him regardless.

i want to say though that jack delivers a surprisingly great performance despite how shoddily his character is constructed and how little experience he has as an actor. like, it's clear he was having a lot of fun on set and i would love to see him in something, like, good; i think he could pull off even like, guest television roles, which is a lot more than can be said for other youtubers.

-----

All the people I ship romantically with this character:

nerdchart should have been canon i'm sorry. i know that close, nonromantic male friendships are valuable, esp between queer men, but also gd wouldn't it have been baller to have a canon interracial mlm ship. like. c'mon. and they could have been such a good friends to lovers story! we already got to see how melvin was the only person nerdcore could really be himself around so it would have been so cool if melvin's self-advocacy arc/flowchart arc had revolved more around nerdcore with a little role-reversal! and then they kiss! like god intended!

also i ship him and indie bc i'm a grubby little gremlin man ohoho. enemies w weird sexual tension? sign me up. not even enemies to lovers i'm not saying this one should have been canon i just love the vibes. do you think melvin and indie ever explored each other's bod-- *gunshot*

-----

My non-romantic OTP for this character:

i wish him and scene had just been bros. god remember in season one when they were just bros that was the life.

alternatively, i wish we'd seen more bonding w him and metal, as a means of reconciling that. uh. moment from season one. along similar lines i would have loved to see him get closer w rayna in a similar way to how she bonded w nerdcore in season two. i think that could have also worked to show how she'd grown between the two seasons.

-----

My unpopular opinion about this character:

HIM. AND. SCENE. SHOULD. HAVE. JUST. BEEN. BROS. (though i think my general dislike of him is pretty unpopular, lmao).

when the show was coming out i don't think it's unfair to say that scenechart/scenetern 2 was the most popular ship (aside from potentially techstep whatever) but luckily we're all gay and have better taste now. unfortunately i totally fell into this camp and scenechart was even my otp for years (until it was arguably more unfortunately usurped by reddie in 2019) and i didn't even realise that it's a hot mess until, again, the summer of 2020.

when actually watching the show the choices the f*nes made in regards to how the ship actually became canon are so odd and out of place, too? okay, so, on one hand everyone just shipped scenechart bc it was the whitest hettiest ship in the show (esp in season two when idol left) aside from scindie (and we already discussed what's wrong w that). but, on the other hand, lainey and jack clearly also just got along? and i suspect that lainey probably also admired jack's work and was happy to be working with him bc we have so many shots throughout even the first season when the ship wasn't the intended endgame of lainey scene looking really fondly at jack melvin at times when it doesn't make much sense at all, esp since she's smitten w indie? this trend continues into the second season which arguably works but it still seems really out of place for him to be the one to ultimately make the first move on her since it's clear she was the one crushing this whole time and also he's gay! this bitch is gay what the fuck!!

-----

One thing I wish had happened with this character in canon:

at this point i'm struggling to think of anything i haven't covered yet. oops.

i've talked at length before about how he should have been a woman/lesbian, but the tl;dr is that it would have solved a lot of the queer-coding "problems" that just didn't get resolved in the show. if he'd been a lesbian then not only would the friendship w nerdcore still made sense, but scenechart would have as well (not even mentioning that both of scene's other relationships w men make a lot of sense as comphet anyway).

[dykedistortion]

Let’s compare wlw and mlm content in the tma fandom :)

Hi, I’m a bitter dyke, so let’s look at the disparity here. I’m using fic numbers on AO3, and looking at both the total number of fic for a pairing and ones where that ship is the only pairing present (because of the way AO3 filters, this excludes fic where this pairing may be the main one, but has side ships). This isn’t a perfect analysis because of the way ao3 filters and such, but I think it gets the point across. 

First of all, the three most written about ships on AO3 are all mlm, with it being Jonmartin, LonelyEyes, and then Jonelias, followed by Dasira and WTGFS. Those two are the only wlw pairings with enough fic to rank in ao3s filtering system. (These numbers are from August 2nd and have probably changed since then).

Dasira Total: 397                                                         Dasira solo: 125

WTGFS Total: 305                                                       WTGFS Solo: 91

LonelyEyes total: 487                                                   LonelyEyes Solo: 267

JonElias Total: 428                                                        Jonelias Solo: 242 

Jonah’s “Regency Harem” (no solo applicable, yes I added all these up myself): 200

Intershipping between the “””””regency harem”””””: 22 total

Let’s break some of those numbers down, shall we? 

In terms of solo fic for both, Jonelias has almost 3 times as many fics as what the girlfriends. Barnabus Bennett, a character mentioned in exactly one statement, and Jonah Magnus have 74 fics, in the same range as what the girlfriends. Lonelyeyes is the second most written about pairing on AO3 and overall very popular, despite the fact that Peter Lukas only became a major character at the very end of season 3 and through season 4. For both Lonelyeyes and Jonelias, over half the fics written about them have them as the only pairing, and more undoubtedly have them as the main ship with side pairings. This is not the case for either wlw ship. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “regency harem” pairings reached or surpassed the total number of wtgfs fic within a few months. Sure, Dasira is doing much better, but how many of those fics do you think focus mostly on them, and how popular are those fics? Do they get as many comments? Fanart?

But even without the specifics (which do depend on what ships you compare specifically), it’s clear that mlm ships are just more written about. But they aren’t just more popular, they are popular regardless of their basis in canon. Nobody has to ship only canon things, I get that, I bring this up to just really highlight how much more people faun over male characters/ships compared to any wlw. 

None of the mlm ships discussed here are canon, particularly not as romantic relationships. None of them. Lonelyeyes has been addressed by the cast and members of rusty quill, sure, but it’s not actually romantic in the text. A very similar ship is Dasira, in terms of not being canon but popular fanon. But guess what! Lonelyeyes is STILL more written about and more popular, despite its recent introduction and the fact that Daisy and Basira have been around for two more seasons. Jonelias isn’t even remotely canon, and yet! Do I even need to talk about the popularity of Jonah Magnus being shipped with a bunch of dead white men mentioned in ONE statement each? The massive amounts of content produced for these characters in comparison to wtgfs, a canonical, healthy romantic relationship between two primary characters with their own individual arcs, who not only give statements but play an important role in the plot? 

Like. My personal feelings on these ships don’t matter, that’s not the point, and I’m only discussing their basis in canon/lack thereof just to illustrate the disparity here. It doesn’t matter if the male characters involved even have actual characterization, or how much importance and nuance the female characters actually have. Without a doubt, mlm ships are more popular and more written about, No Matter What.  

I’m not saying you can’t like these characters and write about them, I have no power over you!!! Frankly, I’m genuinely impressed with the amount of character and story people have created around the Victorian statement givers, even if they’re not my cup of tea. I’m just asking non-wlw/lesbian TMA fans to put even a FRACTION of the effort that goes into mlm pairings towards the ladies. Like, just make an active effort. Be conscious of it and work to do better, please. 

[2ndblogg]

Hey! Just read your hot take on novel!wangxian and I absolutely agree. I'm gonna have to say here that I believe it boils down to the fetishization of homosexual men in a lot of the fandom culture that surrounds mlm shipping, as you said it's a space for a lot of women to experiment with their desires and whatnot, but I think therein lies the breaking points between reading novel!wangxian as a good, healthy relationship vs. reading it as a very flawed and toxic one. As an LGBT person, reading the way the author dealt with their relationship made me extremely uncomfortable, it just really feels like something that is written by someone who is more invested in using her queer characters for satisfying her and her reader's own pleasure than a well-built, strong relationship between two characters. Not to take away from the novel in some other aspects, I believe that novel!wwx is a much better, much more nuanced character than what he is in cql, but when it comes to wangxian, I think the intentions are very different for each of them. To each their own, I guess, but I do find it very troubling that some people in the fandom have a really hard time admitting that novel wangxian is not even remotely healthy.

Absolutely.

And can I just say how glad it makes me to see that not everyone is praising this book for it’s lgbt representation...

But I guess that’s also why I just occasionally feel the need to scream my frustrations into the void or try to make sense of the novel.

And why I try to be understanding and accepting of people’s opinion of the novel and not take it ‘personally’ (in the sense of sitting there thinking “holy shit this is how they view ME, this is what they think of ME” etc).

I was in fandoms back when they were really a place dominated by straight (homophobic) women and realism or lgbt representation wasn’t on anyone’s mind (and the occasional dude butting in to say that’s not how sex works or bottoming is experienced was ignored or told to get out). I experienced this change to fandoms being more of a lgbt space, of people becoming aware that media can shape your views of groups of people, of people becoming aware of their fetishizing of fictional gays vs. their prejudice against real life lgbt people etc.

And tbh MXTX just writes like one of those, she writes wangxian like everyone wrote their gay relationships around 2005 and earlier; clear power imbalance, clear roles and attributes that are divided into ‘manly’ and ‘feminine’, certain physical attributes (like the female self insert character aka the bottom being pretty and slight and weaker and shorter), men/the penetrating partner can’t really be raped so anything the woman/bottom tries isn’t really ‘bad’, the male love interest is forceful and self centered but ONLY because he’s so in love and since he’s emotionally stunted he has to express that through sex, men/tops NEED sex and it’s rude/mean to deny them that, the girl/bottom isn’t THAT horny or in charge of their own sexuality but wants to please their partner and what they really get out of it is the emotional aspect, decisions need to be made for them because the dude/top just knows better, the girl/bottom is childish and flirty and the guy/top suffers through it until he finally snaps and shows the girl/bottom who'sboss etc etc. (honestly homophobia and misogyny is so tightly knit in this kind of fiction, if it wasn’t so frustrating it would be very interesting).

Tbh I disagree with novel!wwx being more nuanced (despite a lot of ppl whose opinions I really respect also feeling this way), because I simply cannot seperate him from the wangxian relationship. All I see are tropes and stereotypes applied to make him ‘work’ in the context of the wangxian relationship instead of an actual personality...

To me, in CQL WWX is clearly the main character and you love his interactions with LWJ and want more of them and value them, wheras in the novel most of the time WWX plays second fiddle even when a scene should technically be about him and LWJ’s presence is incredibly suffocating, because he’s always being controlling or at the very least influencing WWX.

I also don’t feel like WWX has much of a character arc/growth. We’re essentially told he had one but the only thing that really actually changes is him hating himself a bit more and letting LWJ smash..., and I guess: he’s less independent than ever, he’s more isolated that ever...

I’ve called novel!wangxian a relationship between an abuser and his victim, because you can find evidence of that in the text. Not because I think the author wanted to portray an unhealthy gay relationship. Like you said, she was fetishizing and wrote for a similar crowd. But to me that ‘realization’ helped...I still don’t see how people can call it a masterpiece but I can at least understand hyping something you like up...

And like, badly written gay relationship or not; gay/straight,man/women, I see how people can find it hot. Exploring your sexuality through fictional characters isn’t necessarily a strictly straight girl phenomena. I probably have read fic that was exactly like this, I can’t judge anyone for it. But no one prints out the last PWP they read and goes, “this is ideal lgbt representation and nothing will ever be this good, the fact that it includes rape makes it so realistic” like????

(Is that part or an effect of the woke and purety culture? you can’t say ‘i like this book but it has flaws’ or ‘i’ve enjoyed this but it’s not up the feminism or lgbt acceptance that i preach/live’ so you have to pretend it’s flawless?)

And like, I do think novel!wangxian is a nightmare when it comes to lgbt representation and I do believe this is largely due to a cishet woman writing about gay men and fetishizing them (the fact that a lot of peoples arguments why novel!wangxian ‘is better’ boils down to ‘there’s kissing and sex’ is also pretty telling). And I am frightend and worried by some peoples response to it.

But is it really fair to see it as just that? It’s a problem sure, but that same thing happens in straight media (which I am admittedly not well versed in). Stephanie Meyer didn’t set out to write Edward Cullen to be a creep and non of the teenage girls that went crazy over him viewed it as such...Reylo fans (aside from some of them proclaiming Finn to be the real villain and saying it’s racist and misogynistic to not find Kylo Ren hot) found a way to view him threatening her as romantic and sexy, Loki fans that didn’t ship him with Thor usually fell into the camp of “he would be a perfect boyfriend” or “what if this OFC was his slave and he raped her everyday <3″... like ignoring/glorifying/romanticizing behaviours or exploring what kinks you might have through the safety of fictional characters and fictional settings isn’t JUST happening when it comes to ‘the gays’...

And not just specifically in fandom spaces either, a lot of ‘romantic’ movies include inappropriate touching, the boy/guy knowing better than the girl what she wants etc. And I absolutely do believe that that’s something that normalized these things for a lot of young girls and guys (I don’t want to get into this too much, I’ve really seen a change in the past few years, but before that it was pretty common for young boys to believe they need to keep pursuing and pressuring a girl that has said no, girls truly thought boys could die of blue balls, girls thought it was their duty as good girlfriends to let their boyfriends fuck them even when they weren’t in the mood, that they couldn’t talk about what they want in bed or what they don’t find enjoyable because ‘sex is for boys and girls get a relationship in exchange’ etc.).

And in much the same way movies have only relatively recently begun being called out for that, it’s also still pretty recently that they’re being called out for having their one queer coded character be a pedophile and a murder or whatever...Like, society as a whole becoming aware of these issues.

But do authors that publish their work with a specific target audience in mind have a responsibility to think about the effect it might have on them? (And I can already hear loud screams of ‘no way, it’s not your fault if your audience isn’t smart enough to understand that this bad thing is bad’, but I actually do believe in a way they do. That doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t write whatever you want, just maybe take a look at HOW you bring your point across. (We do KNOW people are influenced by what propaganda they’re consistantly fed. I mean, you wouldn’t write a pro-drugs childrens book...) )

What if the author isn’t aware of their bias and prejudices? Or their target audience isn’t their actual audience?

And do we, society and media, judge female and male authors differently when it comes to romance and sex in fiction? (The answer is yes btw) But also, where do we draw the line at calling something ‘badly written’ and calling it toxic? Can it be both? As I’ve said before, a lot of people claim that only the physical intimacy scenes of novel!wangxian are bad, because they’re badly written and OOC, some say the book as amazingly written and only the wangxian relationship is bad because the author doesn’t know how to write gay men. In my ‘hot take’ I essentially said that’s not necessarily bad writing so much as it’s simply an (okay, unintentional) toxic relationship. And would this relationship still come across as toxic (or badly written, whichever you want) if we didn’t know the author to be a cishet woman? Or if a gay man had written it? (my personal, eloquent answer for this is: yes, but differently.)

Which was really all just a rambly way to get to my point of: it’s not just fetishizing of gay men, it’s also the homophobia and self-inserting in a safe situation.

You can literally replace WWX in the novel with a female character and it wouldn’t change a thing. The author takes such an effort into building up this power imbalance in every aspect of their life that if WWX were a heroine nothing would change in this (sexist/ancient society) setting.

(And clearly this is something that appeals to people if you look at the amount of female!WWX fics...)

Not even the sex scenes. There are maybe two allusions in all of them combined that WWX might also have a dick but like, you can’t be sure and it sure as hell doesn’t need stimulation.

(and again, that could be written as a kink...but it’s just not.)

CQL is a gay love story. MDZS at it’s core is none of that.

But I also very much agree with your ‘to each their own’, like here I am criticizing and trying to find explanations and whatever, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter why someone might like (or write) a book like this, I vastly prefer CQL!wangxian but people have their own reasons for not doing so.

The ‘problem’ really only lies in, as you said, people not being able to accept that it’s not a healthy relationship. Or claiming it to be perfect lgbt rep.

And because my brain can’t shut up today:

I also can’t stop thinking that the way some people ‘glorify’ the book as due to their age and ‘inexperience’.

When I was a pretty young kid and got into fanfiction, there was nothing but completely OOC!whump to be found in the first two fandoms I was in. And I loved it. It was YEARS later that I thought I might like to read something with the characters being...in character. What I’m trying to say, in different stages and phases of your life you might enjoy different things, for different reasons...and obviously, in that moment, you won’t think about ‘what appeals to me here/should this appeal to me/etc’.

I don’t mean inexperience as ‘sexual inexperience’ here, though of course that could be part of it, but also like, inexperience with this genre (is this the first book like this you read, or did you just read 50 in a row that all had the same unhealthy vibes?), with lgbt people and issues (do you know any lgbt people or is your only image of them either the cute boy you can’t have and don’t want to see with another girl or grown men in full kink gear in front of children during CSD? and also: do you think ‘i like this’ and that’s the end of it or do you notice how many people idolize this objectively unhealthy relationship and won’t allow critique on it...)  

I...just wanted to say thanks really.

I just can’t stop rambling apparently and I know I mostly just repeated what you said or what I already said but in longer... I just really do feel very strongly about novel!wangxian and the perception of them and have actually at times felt very personally...worried/affected, by people’s acceptance and love of them and I just... have to try and make sense of it...

[earthbovndmisfit]

I hope this isn't too weird of a message to send, but doesn't it seem like Jonawagon doujinshi are pretty uncommon? I've only seen maybe 3 posted online & I have a copy of a SpeedJona doujin but aside from those I haven't come across any. Is it like a rare pairing or something? I thought they were fairly popular

It isn’t weird at all, anon! All the opposite actually, cause I love getting asks even if i'm not always around or it sometimes takes me a hot minute to get to them gfjhkjh

This is gonna be long and probs gonna have bits that might sound rant-ish to some, but I hope that’s alright! :'D

For starters, sadly, jonawagon/jonaspeed/speedjona or however you call the ship is quite an underrated ship. This has to do partly with the wrong perceptions some folks have built around it and around the characters as well (that them both and the couple itself are the epitome of "purity" and "innocence", sometimes even labelling them as "boring" as a result even though both characters are far from that, that "it could only be a one-sided thing" on Spw's end despite both showing and sharing a certain bond/closeness towards each other -closeness that sometimes Jonathan didn't show towards anyone else-, etc), partly because of the many timeskips in PB and all the scenes the anime cut out and people wrongly assuming that the main events happened in the span of a few days and thus people dropping the ball on the ship/characters when Jonathan and Speedwagon actually knew each other for as long -sometimes even longer- than other more popular characters/ships in jjba did, partly because neither Jonathan or Speedwagon are as popular as other characters in the franchise as a whole, and also partly because, as sad as it is to say this, the ship lacks a LOT of support, especially from it's own fanbase. While jonawagon is a popular and well liked ship overall (in the sense that even general fans who don't care much about shipping, or those who are still on the fence about mlm ships, or those who just don't actively ship jonawagon actually like and support the ship or the idea of it upon seeing the actual dynamics between the characters and their potential and the fact that the ship can actually coexist with jonaeri without altering the characters/making them ooc, nor altering the story and so on), it still lacks a lot of support from it's fans. I often see most other ships/characters get lots of reblogs and exposure from their fans on literally any and all platforms, helping those ships/characters reach new audiences and gaining more popularity and drawing interest from potential new fans, while jonawagon stuff as well as solo Jonathan or Speedwagon stuff usually only get likes and a few reblogs at most from their fans, which is nice and all, but it doesn't give the artists/writers any exposure nor get those works or the ship any farther than that and just keeps them within part of the already existing fanbase at best, which often times makes the artists/content creators lose interest in continuing to create stuff for the ship/characters. This is also why I always strongly ask -almost beg at this point ngl- for people to support the artists/writers/etc via reblogs!! The ship having a bunch of different names also might have an impact on all of this, as it's not always as 'easy' to tag/find contents if you don't know how to tag/search for it. Jonawagon (normally used in the western parts of the fandom), JonaSpeed/SpeedJona (Western version of the ship's most popular names in Japanese: ジョナスピ/スピジョナ or JonaSupi/SupiJona respectively], SpeedStar (a name that became a bit more popular more recently after a mini jonawagon event in 2019), being the most common ones afaik, asides from the standard JonathanxSpeedwagon/SpeedwagonxJonathan ie and others. In short, Jonathan and Speedwagon as well as jonawagon are quite well liked and even popular to an extent, but they lack a massive amount of support from the fans, which also usually translates into artists and content creators for this ship losing interest in continuing to create new material for it and thus end up not making any more contents.

In regards to doujinshi more specifically, I’m a bit disconnected when it comes to Jojo doujinshi in general, but it seems to be a bit like that for most of the non "crazy popular" Jojo ships if you ask me, which is kinda normal considering the massive amount of characters in the whole series. Putting my experience as example, if it helps, I used to collect doujinshi from one of my previous fandoms, which had a shit ton of them for plenty of it’s ships and it was somewhat easy to acquire hard copies of despite it being an “old anime” basically while most Jojo doujinshi (especially anything that is not parts 3, 4 and 5) seems to be a bit hard to come across regardless of the ship(s) in them, even in auction sites or places like pixiv that sell digital copies if the author puts them up on sale, which is understandable since the aforementioned parts are some of the most popular parts in Japan, where most doujinshi is created, and thus take most of the fandom's interest -authors’ and readers’ alike-, as well as the hype for parts like Phantom Blood being long dead (with it being dead/dormant since the original airing of the anime ended in 2013, and it coming back ocassionally whenever there's a 'special' re-airing of PB in Japan or when events such as the Joestar Radio take place), so maybe my parameters on the whole subject are somewhat disproportionate?

This is also gonna sound all boomer-like, but I’ve also noticed, or it seems to me at least (still in comparison to the doujinshi from my previous fandom), that doujinshi books as we knew them aren’t /as/ common nowadays as they used to be a while back. Even the works themselves don’t seem to be much that way either. For example, doujinshi anthologies used to be a big thing a while back and, while they still exist, they don’t seem to be too common anymore (these worked as "promo books" of sorts for all the artists featured and they also helped lesser known/popular artists and ships to get some exposure to newer audiences). Nowadays such thing still exists, and I actually recall seeing a Jonaspeed/Speedjona anthology being made “recently” (recently as in 2019, if I’m not mistaken? it was published and sold during the mini Jonaspeed event they held at a Jojo con in Japan that year), but they aren’t nearly as common as they used to be, since now most artists can post any samples they want (much more reduced tho, cause you normally get a few pages instead of a full mini story) in places like Twitter or Pixiv. And it’s kinda the same with regular doujinshi. Before, most doujinkas had to publish a book in order to get their stuff out and get some exposure, so they were always working on new stories and making new books to sell and promoing their stuff, sometimes one after the other and even creating multi-volume stories in some cases. Now, thanks to how "easy" it is to get some exposure on social media, it’s much more common to see doujinkas for any ships/characters making short stories (1-4 pages, sometimes more) or just 1 page illustrations instead and posting them on their social media every now and then as a promo for their works. They also still make and sell their books (a few jonawagon artists on twitter do, at least), and these short stories/illustrations serve to boost their works instead, which is not a complain at all cause I think it's amazing tbqh! But this also translates into less stories/doujinshi being created as many of these artists often opt for leaving those stories that years ago would have been their own book or a mini story in a book as a prompt or a short story only.

As for actual jonawagon doujinshi, while it is not as common as say pt 3 doujinshi, there is quite a bunch of it. Some date from 2012-2013 (when the PB anime was originally aired), some are much older than that and some others are much more recent (as there are still some active jonawagon doujinkas around). There are also "fanfic books" that are also considered doujinshi and that seem to be a thing sometimes, but these contain little to no art at all and are usually written 100% in Japanese. The problem here is that not many of them have been scanlated/translated yet, sometimes because they aren't easy to find on sale online, sometimes because re-sellers who do have them set high prices for them plus shipping costs, sometimes because the artists/online shops won't sell stuff overseas, sometimes because those who do own doujinshi copies don't always know how to properly share them (since scanning a doujinshi in high or decent quality without destroying the book can be hard af) among other reasons.

All that said, there is a bunch of jonawagon doujinshi that has been scanned and is available online! but it can be tricky to get sometimes due to the different names this ship can go by and because of the "translations" of said names into different languages (as some doujinshi can only be found in Chinese sites, or Russian ones, and so on for example, so it can take some serious time to figure that out and have a successful search).

In all honesty, anon, I'm a dumdum and I had never thought about doing so in a more public manner until now, since I've already shared my entire jonawagon collection (pics, doujins, etc) with friends who have requested it more privately, but I can upload the doujins I have scans of if anyone's interested?? (I’d post the links where I found most of them but since my hd is pretty much dead and I can’t access Windows or my windows/mozilla profile, I’ve p much lost all my old bookmarks). They were only like... 8 last time I checked (9/10 if you count the Japanese and English versions of the "Joestarsaaaaan" one), but it's something :D Just be aware that some of them are nsfw! and that a couple are either part of a book that has stories from other ships in them (I only have the jonawagon parts tho) or contain other ships implied or openly shown in the jonawagon story.

I also have about 4 more, but the scanlator of one of them openly requested for the file to not be reuploaded, so Idk if it'd be alright to share it? (and they also deactivated their blog, so there's no way to ask them for permission). The other 3 are scans a friend sent to me of their own doujinshi copies, so I also don't know if it would be okay for me to post them?? (i haven't seen this friend in over a year so idk gfhgjkjlkñ). 2 of those 3 are nsfw.

[spiftynifty]

Hey there! I’m the same anon that sent that confusion ask to jojo. I saw your reply and Read your post about LGBT in kids shows and how (at the time) it seemed probable for a m|m canon. I wanted to ask what your thoughts are now? I personally think it seems most likely that Keith will end in a het. Relationship (despite it seeming a little rushed and lm and jds saying they wouldn’t) Keith ending with no one when such a strong relationship with shiro was built up just doesn’t seem likely either..

To be honest, I was worried about Kacxa at first too. Many, many other hetero romances have started with less than that and seeing underdeveloped relationships just happen because “he was a boy, she was a girl, can I make it any more obvious” is something we are extremely accustomed to. Heck the show kind of plays right into this with Hunk/Shay.

But Keith is different, he is a far more developed and story-focused character than Hunk is, and thus if he’s to be given a romantic partner then it needs to match that flow and level of development. One of the “rules” that we often get in media is that “romance is a higher level on the relationship chart than friendship”. And at this point, and even after 13 more episodes, there’s just no context this show could offer me where I could honestly believe that Keith could regard Acxa with a similar level of affection to how he regards Shiro, let alone higher. This was the biggest reason I stopped worrying; to be blunt, Kacxa doesn’t make sense on a narrative or character level. Keith aside, Acxa deserves to have a story told that doesn’t involve her following dudes around.

Also, revisiting the show I’m quite convinced that Keith is canonically in love with Shiro, that his feelings for him were intended to be read as so many of us do. There’s a reason so many people in and outside the fandom have written about their relationship with optimism and curiosity about where the show is taking it. It’s there, even for those who have never been looking for it. I know a lot of straight guys who have picked up on it despite never realizing Korrasami was a thing. 

But we definitely do a lot of speculating here in the Sheith fandom and I’ve seen some pretty elaborate meta for scenes that didn’t particularly resonate as shippy for me. So stepping back, shipping goggles off, speaking as a viewer and as someone who works in animation, there are really… 3.5 sequences that give me pause, that are so heavily coded and so… interestingly storyboarded and animated that I find it increasingly impossible to believe the showrunners and directors never intended for their relationship to be read romantically. They are:

Because there is something inherently romantic about the slow zoom on their smiles before the slow drift of them towards each other, the castle forgotten

Because this is blatantly highlighting how beautiful Shiro is and Keith staring at him in awe before he closes his eyes for the last time, resigned to their joint fate

Because I have run all the permutations and scenarios in my mind and there is literally no reason for Keith to stop mid lean, with his eye direction shifting lower than Shiro’s eyeline. It would have been faster and way less work to show him just hugging him without the pause.

And then this is the 0.5:

Because while the canon tempers this moment with “you’re my brother”, I am beyond convinced that that line was added because the scene was too romantically coded without it. And if you don’t believe me, check out this edit someone made of what the scene sounds like without the brother line. It’s incredible. 

But will we SEE canon Sheith? that’s… a little more complicated. 

My post ages ago about LGBT in cartoons was pretty optimistic but where I failed was considering the differences in studios. Some companies are a lot more chill about LGBT content in their shows. But they also aren’t the Big Two: Disney and Dreamworks, whose records of LGBT characters are utterly abysmal. Here are the two they had prior to July 2018: LeFou from live action Beauty and the Beast, and Gobber from HTTYD2 in a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it line that was ad-libbed by the actor and left in. Arguments could also be made for the Sheriffs in Gravity Falls (that had to be Dumbledore’d after the fact by the show creator who alluded to there being a fight over it).

NOT great, especially when you consider Disney is not just Disney: none, NONE of the 19 Marvel movies feature an LGBT character, nor do ANY of the Star Wars movies. It’s utterly inexcusable. Shareholders in these companies make things more complicated because they help dictate the direction a company will take and if a large portion of their major shareholders are say, more conservative, we’re going to notice that there is one area on the diversity checklist that is repeatedly getting passed over. The bigger the company, the more complicated the relationship is with shareholders. That’s why it’s difficult to compare Korra’s achievement, through Nickelodeon, to the potential of an LGBT relationship on Dreamworks. We should absolutely hold them to the same standards regardless of company size but we can’t expect to get an endgame LGBT relationship just because Korra did, or because of the giant 20-gayteen celebration going on for two wlw ships at Cartoon Network.

But we also got THIS on Voltron.  

And it’s a start. I think it outlines pretty clearly where the limits are for Dreamworks at this time, especially since many casual viewers seemed to miss the romantic implications of Zethrid/Ezor, and a more alarming number somehow walked away from Adam/Shiro’s fight completely unaware they were a couple. Which honestly, was certainly Dreamworks’ goal. Keep it vague enough to fool the shareholders, but implicative enough to pat themselves on the back for their achievement. Even though it only exists because JDS and LM fought tooth and nail for it. But at the end of the day, we still have Shiro, Shiro our canonically gay rep, and that’s so huge. I don’t think people realize how huge that is, and I wish his coming out party hadn’t been so marred by toxic antis and even non-antis who decided to take a really big moment in cartoon history and make it all about themselves and their own pain over the “more” that they didn’t get. 

It’s incredible that we are getting LGBT in cartoons finally, properly. 2018 celebrated three massive historical achievement in kid’s animation: A strong, muscular, leader hero was revealed to be gay and have had a boyfriends, and two wlw couples kissed–one of them got married, onscreen. 

This is HUGE. Prior to 2018 the biggest LGBT cartoon moment we had was Korra and Asami four years ago. 

It was like for four years everyone fought and fought and fought and 2018 was the breaking point and we got this glorious explosion of LGBT romance as a result. Audience reception to these couples has been immensely supportive, which is something the companies are definitely noting if it’s translating into dollar signs. It’s something that makes me much more optimistic for the future of cartoons in years to come. 

But I’m just going to come out and say it: the road to mlm is just a little bit harder. There are a ton of reasons for this but I’d say the biggest two boil down to: classic, gendered homophobia (the white conservative straight dudes with money supporting the studios have an easier time with the idea of two women making out, cuz that’s “hot” than two men, cuz that’s “weird”), and also because it is easier for people to accept that two overly-touchy women are “just good friends” than it is for them to accept that two male characters doing the same thing are. Guys Don’t Get Affectionate With Each Other, after all, because that’s not the Masculine Way. Or something. Tons of people watched the end of Korra and assumed they were just friends. Replace those characters with Shiro and Keith and it raises eyebrows. 

So where does that leave Shiro and Keith? It’s really hard to say and at this point it’s anyone’s guess. I truly believe Sheith was intentionally coded as romantic, but getting the green light is another matter entirely. In addition to the DW shareholders, JDS/LM have to deal with the Voltron ones and since that would include conservative-minded folk along with some Japanese shareholders and Japan has complicated rules about LGBT content… it’s a hot mess. Realistically speaking if you were hoping to see Shiro and Keith kiss onscreen, it’s time to come to terms with the fact that there is a 0.0002% likelihood of it happening. I think the best outcome we can expect at this point is that they both end up single, with bonus points if they’re still alive and on the same planet by the series’ end. I firmly believe that this IS something the showrunners are and have fought for and will continue to fight for until the last retakes are done and the show has been approved and shipped off to Netflix for distribution. 

My tinhat theory is that there is one, single scene/shot, that is blatantly canon, that JDS/LM and KR animated on the sly, and have at the ready that they are totally prepared to replace another more platonic scene with– should DW give the go ahead. But I doubt that go-ahead will ever come. At the end of the day the shareholders are the rulemakers and unless they’re convinced it’s worth the financial gain, Sheith is forever bound to be the “will they won’t they” friends we have seen for the last 7 seasons. And I don’t think that potential financial gain of the kids’ animation world’s first mlm couple is big enough to convince them. But god do I ever hope I’m wrong. 

[thelillykane]

logan/lilly head canons for if she had lived 💛

1. Lilly finds out Aaron’s been taping her without her consent, which pisses her off beyond all fucking belief. What makes her even angrier is when Aaron tries to kill her for taking them and this one fucking deputy from the sheriffs department tries to say that it’s her fault (Keith fires him, almost immediately, but that doesn’t make her any less livid). Her parents don’t say that it’s her fault in so many words, but it’s clear from the way they act even more like assholes to her that they think she kinda had it coming. Lynn and Trina don’t really like her either anymore, which makes sense, even though Lynn doesn’t like her almost on Logan’s behalf and that’s just dumb because Logan’s already making jokes about it. 

2. “You can cross sleeping with an oscar winner off the bucket list.” Is the first thing Logan says when she wakes up in the hospital. 

According to Veronica, Logan hadn’t left the hospital since she’d been admitted and was seemingly angrier about the fact that neither Lilly nor Duncan had told him Duncan had epilepsy, despite the fact that they’d known each other since they were five. Veronica also says that Logan’s the one who found the tapes hidden in the vent. Veronica admits that they watched them – slipped away in all the chaos of the department having to rush three people to the hospital and trying to secure the crime scene – because she says they wanted to make sure they were important before bothering Keith and/or invading Lilly’s privacy. 

Logan doesn’t say anything. He just keeps sleeping in the chair next to her bed and holding her hand and he grins at her all the time like full, soft grins that light up his whole face and he kisses her on the cheek and plays with her hair and tells her stupid jokes and he’s just there. 

3. They don’t get back together. Lilly’s memory of the day leading up to the attack is super fuzzy, but she can remember Logan’s note with almost perfect clarity. Once she’s feeling up to it she rips him a new one for having the audacity to break up with her in a hand written note of all things and he just shrugs all sheepish and he won’t look her in the eye, but surprisingly it sticks. Or, maybe it’s not surprising considering that yeah she’s fucked his abusive dad and Logan’s seen the evidence firsthand, but. 

4. Lilly starts volunteering for the nearest Planned Parenthood. Volunteering turns into being on the board, which turns into attending seminars in Washington D.C. as a Youth Advocate, fighting for an end to abstinence-only education, emphasizing the need for enthusiastic consent, fighting against rape culture and slut shaming, and fighting for broader lgbtq representation in schools, include sex ed focused on wlw or mlm sex, not just heterosexual sex. 

She realizes she wants to do this as a career, for the rest of her life, sometime in the middle of junior year, which is a problem because she’d only half-heartedly applied to San Diego state and that school so does not have a good enough women and gender studies program. Thankfully, Veronica Mars is a badass (and yeah her parents are rich), so by the skin of her teeth she gets into Amherst College which is supposed to be one of the best programs aside from the Ivy’s and she’d die before going to an Ivy League school. She’s surprised, deciding to go to a school away from California (all the way in MA, no less), but Logan picks her up and spins her around when they open the letter so she decides it’ll be good. 

5. Logan gets emancipated his senior year. Lynn wants to leave California and move back to Tennessee, so she signs the papers and Logan buys his own house out down by the water. Lilly visits for the first time over her winter break and it’s perfect. Only three bedrooms so it’s not over the top (which Logan always hated about his childhood homes) and it’s full of large windows and natural lighting and Logan painted each wall in his garage a different shade of green just because he could and if they’re really quiet they can hear the sounds of the ocean and the air smells like salt all the time. 

It happens almost by accident, but it’s late at night, they’re lying on the floor staring up at the stars through the skylight, they might’ve started and finished a bottle of wine together, they’re holding hands and her legs are tangled up with his because they’ve never kicked the habit, the sound of the ocean is so soothing and calming and then he’s kissing her or she’s kissing him and then they’re making love (not sex. with logan it’s never just sex. it’s quality, orgasm-inducing, her legs are weak for days, love making). 

Understandably Logan kinda freaks out when they’re done and locks himself in his room but yk she lives at his house when she’s not a school so she sleeps in one of the spare bedrooms and when she wakes up Logan has made thick cut french toast with fresh strawberries and orange juice and they sit out on his back steps, sharing the same blanket because it’s january and fucking cold and they agree that they’re doing too good, Logan’s going to Hearst in the fall, she’s kicking ass at University, and yeah, it’s still too weird and too fresh to derail everything by starting up again. Logan says they owe it to themselves to make it and be happy as individuals and not worry about fucking each other up. They, obviously, don’t tell Veronica or Duncan or anybody what happens. 

6. They’re each a few years out of college, Logan owns a business and also a non-profit organization for abused kids (he didn’t want any of the money Aaron left him after he bit it in jail, but he also didn’t like any of his charity options so he ended up creating his own. Him and Trina haven’t talked since), she’s working as a community organizer at Planned Parenthood , submitting resumes to non-profits, etc.. They fly to different states all the time to attend meetings and rallies and to visit Veronica completing her Masters in Criminal Justice at Rutgers, but when they’re not flying they live at Logan’s, more often than not sleeping in the same bed (again, they never kicked the habit. They don’t want to). They’re skyping Duncan one day – he’s doing some fucking overseas thing in Australia, the asshole – when Duncan asks if they’re dating again. Asks it super casual like they’re all thirteen again and Logan and Lilly have broken up and gotten back together again eight times already and it’s only noon on Tuesday and Duncan’s trying to figure out if this is what the rest of the week is going to be like and if he’s going to have to (offer to) share his bed with Logan if they’re not back together by the end of the night. Lilly’s expecting Logan to freak out, or deflect and call Duncan an asshole, but he just kinda smirks, gets all evasive like they used to when they were kids, just because they knew it pissed Duncan off whenever they didn’t give him a straight answer. Duncan’s groan comes through the computer, but he doesn’t say that he thinks it’s a bad idea, and Logan just keeps on smirking. 

7. “You know, if he’d just asked if you wanted to make a sex tape, this whole mess never would’ve happened.” 

They’re driving from the airport to Veronica’s school when Logan brings this up. For the first time. In seven fucking years. Slash for the first time ever. She studies his posture but his hands are relaxed on the wheel and he spoke with a sort of practiced ease, like he’d been meaning to say this for a while and only just remembering. 

“But, you know, it was statutory rape either way.” 

She’s rolling her eyes before she’s even really processed his words. “Was it statutory rape when you were fucking Kendall Casablancas?” 

“Hmm, technically. But that was all consensual.” 

“Well, fucking your dad was consensual for me.” 

“I know.” 

She twists in her seat to stare at him fully, and Logan’s positively fucking beaming next to her, but his eyes are back on the road and he doesn’t say anymore on the topic. 

8. “I have a secret. A good one,” Lilly gushes the second she gets Veronica alone, Logan wandering off somewhere to buy them all icees. “Logan’s in love with me.” 

“That’s not a secret,” Veronica responds, not even bothering to look up from her phone. 

“Yes! It is! I mean, god, Dorkus, Logan’s in love with me.” 

“And you’re in love with him. This is not earth shattering.” 

“I think we’re going to try dating again.” 

Veronica sighs, finally pulling herself away from composing the worlds longest text message to Wallace, and looks Lilly in the eye. 

“Honestly, Lil, you two live together and everybody knows you two slept together when you first came down from college. We’ve al just been waiting for you guys to clue in.” 

When Logan comes back with the icees they walk flanking Veronica on either side and she spends half the day glancing at him from under her eyelashes and the other half trying not to burst out giggling when he glances under his eyelashes at her. 

9. The plan was that when they were done visiting Veronica she would fly directly to Chicago for a conference and he would fly back to California for a meeting with his board advisors, but instead they both end up canceling their plans and booking two flights to Tennessee. Lynn’s hair is shoulder length and slightly curled from the humidity and after she gets done hugging Logan for no joke ten fucking minutes she surprises Lilly by giving her a hug as well. 

In the middle of copious amounts of sauce slathered pasta and glasses of chardonnay, Lynn asks them bluntly how long ago they started dating again. 

“Recently. I wanted you to be the first to know. Well, aside from Ronnie, but she knows everything. Are you…mad about it or…”

“Are you happy?” Lynn asks simply, and Logan doesn’t stop smiling for the rest of the night. 

// 

They make love – marathon love making in the shower, on the floor, in the bed, on the grass out by the pond where they went spontaneous it’s-three-am-and-the-humidity-is-killing-us skinny dipping, on the kitchen table even though the wood is super old and won’t stop creaking don’t break. I swear we’ll make this worth your while Logan had promised the table, whispering against her thighs as he ate her out for the first time since high school – all night in Lynn’s yellow painted guesthouse and they keep murmuring under their breath how much they love each other until they remember yeah, it’s not a poorly-kept secret anymore, and they start shouting LILLY KANE LOVES LOGAN ECHOLLS, LOGAN ECHOLLS LOVES LILLY KANE at the top of their lungs until Lynn personally knocks on the door and tells them to shut up. 

10. She thinks they’re both a little nervous about it given their revolving on-off status in the past, but even when they were broken up for six hours, or she was fucking Weevil, or mad at him for kissing Yolanda, she always knew that in her future she was with him. She knows Logan always felt the same. 

Hardly anybody is phased by them getting back together, and the one time someone does try and give them shit Logan punches the guy so hard that it breaks the asshole’s jaw. Everyone leaves them alone after that. 

A year passes, then two, then three, until one day they wake up and feel like getting married. 

They plan it in about a week, keeping it small, for now. (She knows Logan’s lying when he says he won’t one day want a big elaborate wedding. Boy is a hopeless romantic who has been planning it since they were SIX). They get married on the beach near their house with just Veronica, Duncan, Lynn, and Keith in attendance and when they exchange their vows they talk about being together forever and then finding each other and being together beyond that and they talk about love and how they’ve been loving each other since they were children and how it just gets more breathless and delightful with each passing day and when they priest finally pronounces them man and wife, two souls and beings and whatever merging into one, everyone is crying. 

They don’t make love on their wedding day. Instead, they lay side by side on the floor underneath the skylight, Lilly still in her dress and Logan still in his tuxedo, and they hold hands with their legs all tangled up together as they giggle and name the stars after one another. 

[loreneweiner]

Bankruptcy Fast Facts

Bankruptcy is often considered a sort of dirty word; some nefarious thing to be avoided at all costs. I’ll try in this post to share with you some information I’ve learned over many years as a bankruptcy attorney. We’ll also try to unravel some of those myths—and replace them with the facts.

Despite its bad rap—often encouraged by creditors to keep you in the debt cycle—bankruptcy can be a powerful tool to help you move beyond the “paycheck to paycheck” lifestyle and get a fresh start. In fact, unlike many programs that creditors have designed to ensure that they can keep recovering payments from consumers, bankruptcy is a federal program. It was written into law specifically to assist those who, despite their hard work and best efforts, have experienced misfortune due to a lost job, medical catastrophe, or other event that results in an inability to pay their bills.

Bankruptcy can help you regain sound financial footing after a turbulent time.

Will My Chapter 13 Payment Change With My Income?

Chapter 13 bankruptcy runs over a significant length of time: 3 to 5 years. The terms of the repayment plan is tied to the debtor’s income and expenses. That raises one of the most common questions people have about Chapter 13 bankruptcy: since your income and/or your expenses might change significantly during the life of the plan, how does that change affect the plan? Can your payments be adjusted?

Chapter 13 Basics

First some basics on how Chapter 13 works. Chapter 13 bankruptcy is known as “the wage earner’s plan.” It allows people with a regular income to develop a plan for repaying a portion of their debt over a period of three to five years, depending upon monthly income.

Who is Eligible?

You can file under Chapter 13 as long as you have:

Unsecured debts less than $336,900

Secured debts less than $1,010,650

There is no minimum debt requirement for filing under Chapter 13. Self-employed or those operating an unincorporated business can also file Chapter 13 to reorganize debts associated with their business.

Three-Year versus Five-Year Plans

Whether you end up with a three-year or five-year plan is a function of your income. If your income is above the median, your Chapter 13 plan must run for five years with expenses determined by IRS collection standards. If your income is at or below the median, you’re eligible for a three-year-plan with payments determined by actual expenses versus IRS guidelines.

Options for Dealing with Changed Income and/or Expenses

Chapter 13 bankruptcy offers two basic ways to deal with changed financial circumstances Modification of the plan’s payment schedule to keep the plan workable. Plan modifications often involve reducing the monthly payments in light of reduced income and/or increased expenses.

A “hardship discharge” is the other option, and occurs when the changed circumstances prevent the debtor from completing the plan. Not surprisingly, the law restricts hardship discharges to a limited set of circumstances. It’s only available when all three of the following circumstances are met:

The circumstances preventing the debtor from completing the plan’s payments are beyond the debtor’s control

Creditors have received at least as much money as they would have received under Chapter 7 where nonexempt assets are liquidated

The problem can’t be solved by merely modifying the plan

As soon as you anticipate changes to your income or expenses you should contact your attorney to discuss the potential of making changes to your plan. Not all plans can be modified, and if that’s the case it may be dismissed (unsuccessfully closed).

Free Consultation with Bankruptcy Lawyer

If you have a bankruptcy question, or need to file a bankruptcy case, call Ascent Law now at (801) 676-5506. Attorneys in our office have filed over a thousand cases. We can help you now. Come in or call in for your free initial consultation.

Ascent Law LLC8833 S. Redwood Road, Suite CWest Jordan, Utah 84088 United StatesTelephone: (801) 676-5506

Ascent Law LLC

4.9 stars – based on 67 reviews

Recent Posts

Salt Lake City Estate Planning Lawyers

Insurance after Divorce

How Bankruptcy Works

Divorce Attorney Utah

Domestic Assault and Battery

Lawyer for Wills in Utah

Source: http://www.ascentlawfirm.com/bankruptcy-fast-facts/

[aretia]

Bankruptcy Fast Facts

Bankruptcy is often considered a sort of dirty word; some nefarious thing to be avoided at all costs. I’ll try in this post to share with you some information I’ve learned over many years as a bankruptcy attorney. We’ll also try to unravel some of those myths—and replace them with the facts.

Despite its bad rap—often encouraged by creditors to keep you in the debt cycle—bankruptcy can be a powerful tool to help you move beyond the “paycheck to paycheck” lifestyle and get a fresh start. In fact, unlike many programs that creditors have designed to ensure that they can keep recovering payments from consumers, bankruptcy is a federal program. It was written into law specifically to assist those who, despite their hard work and best efforts, have experienced misfortune due to a lost job, medical catastrophe, or other event that results in an inability to pay their bills.

Bankruptcy can help you regain sound financial footing after a turbulent time.

Will My Chapter 13 Payment Change With My Income?

Chapter 13 bankruptcy runs over a significant length of time: 3 to 5 years. The terms of the repayment plan is tied to the debtor’s income and expenses. That raises one of the most common questions people have about Chapter 13 bankruptcy: since your income and/or your expenses might change significantly during the life of the plan, how does that change affect the plan? Can your payments be adjusted?

Chapter 13 Basics

First some basics on how Chapter 13 works. Chapter 13 bankruptcy is known as “the wage earner’s plan.” It allows people with a regular income to develop a plan for repaying a portion of their debt over a period of three to five years, depending upon monthly income.

Who is Eligible?

You can file under Chapter 13 as long as you have:

Unsecured debts less than $336,900

Secured debts less than $1,010,650

There is no minimum debt requirement for filing under Chapter 13. Self-employed or those operating an unincorporated business can also file Chapter 13 to reorganize debts associated with their business.

Three-Year versus Five-Year Plans

Whether you end up with a three-year or five-year plan is a function of your income. If your income is above the median, your Chapter 13 plan must run for five years with expenses determined by IRS collection standards. If your income is at or below the median, you’re eligible for a three-year-plan with payments determined by actual expenses versus IRS guidelines.

Options for Dealing with Changed Income and/or Expenses

Chapter 13 bankruptcy offers two basic ways to deal with changed financial circumstances Modification of the plan’s payment schedule to keep the plan workable. Plan modifications often involve reducing the monthly payments in light of reduced income and/or increased expenses.

A “hardship discharge” is the other option, and occurs when the changed circumstances prevent the debtor from completing the plan. Not surprisingly, the law restricts hardship discharges to a limited set of circumstances. It’s only available when all three of the following circumstances are met:

The circumstances preventing the debtor from completing the plan’s payments are beyond the debtor’s control

Creditors have received at least as much money as they would have received under Chapter 7 where nonexempt assets are liquidated

The problem can’t be solved by merely modifying the plan

As soon as you anticipate changes to your income or expenses you should contact your attorney to discuss the potential of making changes to your plan. Not all plans can be modified, and if that’s the case it may be dismissed (unsuccessfully closed).

Free Consultation with Bankruptcy Lawyer

If you have a bankruptcy question, or need to file a bankruptcy case, call Ascent Law now at (801) 676-5506. Attorneys in our office have filed over a thousand cases. We can help you now. Come in or call in for your free initial consultation.

Ascent Law LLC8833 S. Redwood Road, Suite CWest Jordan, Utah 84088 United StatesTelephone: (801) 676-5506

Ascent Law LLC

4.9 stars – based on 67 reviews

Recent Posts

Salt Lake City Estate Planning Lawyers

Insurance after Divorce

How Bankruptcy Works

Divorce Attorney Utah

Domestic Assault and Battery

Lawyer for Wills in Utah

Source: http://www.ascentlawfirm.com/bankruptcy-fast-facts/

[dustinjaggersddsoundandlight]

You Have To Solidify Your Reputation For A Business Owner As A Way To Keep Pace

In this way, you can construct a reputation for a company who cares about its customers. Because improving your online reputation is dependent upon the kind and degree of damage done and your overall objectives, not many services have an established plan or price. Very similar to any other instance, obtaining a great online reputation is just as important to be able to formulate wholesome small business relationships and boost profit margins.

You can’t build a reputation until you’ve got work. It can restore your reputation in case your online presence is already damaged. Nowadays it is suggested to safeguard your reputation online. Know about bad comments which might lead to negative brand reputation.

The web has proved itself to be an excellent rostrum to receive marketers closer to their consumers. In fact, it has proved to be a reliable source for gathering data for the same. It has to be visible on the world wide web. The net has eputation repair made this a lot easier.

A site represents an organization, and customers have to be in a position to trust both in the event the business is to be prosperous. Should youn’t find out how to establish a website there are tons of internet designers who do. You can make new sites and make certain they are tailored around specific key phrases that bring up negative feedback about your website. 1 method it’s possible to use is to make an internet website and market your services but this might take quite a lot of time to have a job. When you’ve got your internet website up and running you’re going to need to increase your visibility so people will visit your website and read exactly what you’ve written. One way you could do it is to begin your own web website.

Regardless of what business you’re in it always helps to be regarded as an expert. One of the greatest approaches to foster trust and a great web reputation is to get a customer 48066 testimonials page in a site. Getting Consumers to Contribute Sometimes it is an excellent concept to provide the creative team a rest and provide consumers a stake in the advertising strategy. In this decade, new non-traditional marketing and advertising concepts have emerged, such as viral advertising, social media advertising, undercover advertising, and 586-790-1000 attraction advertising.

You don’t have to go around on the lookout for customers because they’ll be attracted to the item. Just as potential customers might be searching for your organization on major search engines such as Google, employers often hunt for information regarding job candidates. ORM services will be able to help you strategize to protect against any possible negative circumstances. It is necessary you know what services you’ll need to provide when you begin this small business. To make certain that you receive the best reputation management service whilst still acting fast, Wisnefski advised customers to get their potential providers supply them with some type of analysis related to their existing online sentiment. The top rated online reputation management providers take it a step further by assisting you to produce and maintain venues where you could build relationships with your clientele and monitor online mentions.

Should you own a company, just be sure your site contains all the information it can about your services and products. Despite of the occurrence of sophisticated advertising and marketing tools to figure out the specific wealth of a specific small business investment, small business is still an indefinite market where you’re facing an undefined number of small business competitors with unfamiliar or wonderful strengths with respect to marketing their goods. Consequently, it isn’t surprising to be aware that it has also been responsible for marketing because it’s au Detroit courant. Internet marketing doesn’t just provide convenience when it comes to commercial pursuits but also gave freedom to Internet marketers when it comes to running their company at their own discretion. It is the solution to that. The other issue is e-mail marketing. Social advertising is a rather inexpensive proposition, as long as you understand what the marketing dollars are used for.

Ten years back, the internet advertising industry was comprised of conventional advertising and marketing professionals with an 30550 Gratiot Avenue #320 urge to bring their products to the internet industry. Irrespective of economic sectors the business operates in, the capability of operations management of this provider to fulfill those above-mentioned tasks depends upon their understanding that it’s essential to make trade-offs. It’s also smart that you join an MLM company which you own a demand for a product in.

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from Dustin Jagger SDD Sound & Light Ltd – Equipment Hire and Sales for Entertainment And Industry http://sddsoundandlight.com/you-have-to-solidify-your-reputation-for-a-business-owner-as-a-way-to-keep-pace/