#even as he loses more and more of his identity to afo

[class1akids]

Some thoughts about Ch 419 - character agency and origin

I'm way behind, but wanted to add my 2c on the debate relating to the AFO "twist" and what it means for Tenko to have AFO at the core of his existence. It made me think once again of the Shouto-Shigaraki parallels .

I didn't take it quite as bad as some of the fandom, because:

we kind of already knew AFO was behind it, we just didn't know the full extent

unlike a lot of people, I didn't think that Tenko being saved by vestige magic hugs, sidestepping Tomura's adult personality and going hand in hand with child!Izuku to fight the big bad would have been a good conclusion.

I also don't think that Tenko not having any agency is necessarily a bad thing. You see, my favourite character, Shouto is a lot like Tenko. His birth, his quirk, the loss of his family, every trauma that shaped him as a child leads back to Endeavor. He's born to be his weapon to use as he wishes.

His lack of agency doesn't make him a boring character. In fact, I find it fascinating how the story shows us Shouto clawing back his agency, identity inch by painful inch, until he's able to stand firm and say - so I can AFFIRM the reason for being born. So let's look at saving Shouto, because I do think it's kind of a blueprint not only for saving Tenko/Tomura, but to Tenko/Tomura rising to save others.

And if we remember Shouto's journey - yes, it starts with a moment of a hero reaching out to him, reconnecting him to his child self who was told that he can choose who he wants to be, he can be a hero.

Notice though how being reconnected to his child self, is not an insta-save. Baby!Shouto doesn't just take over UA!Shoto and erase his personality or past mistakes. Shouto himself has to do the work. He has to face his own shitty choices, like giving the cold shoulder to Inasa or not seeing his mom for a decade and try to reconcile who he is NOW after the abuse, grooming and being driven by negative feelings. Taking ownerships of his mistakes (even if the source is Endeavor) is one of the ways to emancipation.

But it's also not a straight path. Shouto experiences being faced with his childhood dream as a nerf (just like Tomura did now lose to AFO) because of the trauma and doubts he carries. He momentarily loses his will to fight.

For people who never had agency in their lives like Shoto or Tomura, the simple truth that you get to make choices is hard to internalize and the constant doubt whether it's a choice you make by yourself or are you just walking down the path your "creator" set out for you remains.

And how could it not? Shouto wants to be a hero and wants to be not like his father who is the No 1 hero now. It's a contradiction, no? And it takes Shouto 200+ chapters to come up with an answer to reconcile the tension - he wants to be a reassuring hero - something Endeavor never was. Having this goal in his mind, he's able to accept more and more of the tools his father gave him - his quirk, Endeavor's techniques, even gear that looks like his father's - because as long as he's rooted in his own will, his own goal, he gets to keep his own identity, he gets to affirm his reason.

This is why I want not some idealized child Tenko to vanquish AFO. I think it's much more powerful if the person who makes a return is Tomura (who is also Tenko, but I use Tomura as a shorthand for his adult self, the person who he has become).

And while it's undeniable that AFO is deeply at the core of Tenko's origin (just like Endeavor is for Shouto), I also think he's gaslighting Tomura when he says Tomura never made a choice. And I'm talking about the League here specifically.

The bonds Tomura created with Touya, Toga, Spinner, Compress, Twice, Magne, etc - are fully choices he made. AFO let it happen - but the League (a place for outcasts to be accepted) are Tomura's choices.

Just as for Shoto the friends he made are instrumental in him earning his agency, being able to affirm his existence and not crumble from tragedy, the LoV is the key for Tomura to start to claw back his own.

And that's why I think it's narratively desirable for them to be part of Tomura's endgame (also to mirror Deku who would be fully an OFA/All Might creation if not for the friends and allies he made for himself and who all come to his aid in the end).

The League is also the place where the Tenko/Tomura faultlines can be reconciled into a whole. Tenko's desire to be heroic (to play with the outcasts) and Tomura's desire to stand with his allies/friends (the villains). So it boils down into a moment of wanting to be the Hero of the Villains. That's Tomura affirming himself right there. This is not AFO's path for him, but it's him reintegrating everything he has become, his truths and understanding of the world, his bonds that shaped him into that childhood dream. (It's like Shouto's "reassuring hero" moment).

And I think Tomura losing himself to the trauma, PTSD, etc. momentarily is ok too. He lost the rage that drove him forward (like Shouto in the final of the Sport Festival) and is untethered right now. He will need to find a positive emotion to become his drive to take him forward.

But his power will surface with the right trigger, just like Shouto showing up at the Stain fight wielding his newly liberated fire to help Deku was the real pay-off for their Sport Festival fight. (But only after Shouto digged deep inside himself and went to face his mother, face the existence he was given and the hurt it caused to his family with the actual reality.).

I think Tomura will also need a "deep dive" to compare his perception of the world to the current reality. Is society as passive and worthless as his perception of it? The heroes all fighting together, the civilians pitching in feels like there is a change compared to the passive hero society he remembers. But I think the real trigger should be / will be the LoV coming in. Because is it true that AFO made him choose them?

The LoV despite their bonds being real and deep couldn't save each other because they were all spiralling deep in their own traumas. But now Toga and Touya also had their own moments of reconnecting with their child self and having that child's original desire fulfilled (for Tenko - a hero came, for Touya - his family watched him, for Toga - someone accepted her as normal) but of course it's not a magic solution.

Because that moment would have saved the child they were, but not enough for their current selves. They will also have to make their own choices going forward. I think all of them can find the reason to face AFO now - Toga still wants to protect the things she likes, Touya maybe able to move beyond his father's reasons and look for his own, but not from a revenge perspective, Spinner is loyal, Compress I think will also come.

How, you ask? Well, Kurogiri is still black with bits of white. He still has in him the conditioning to protect Tomura, but also infused with Shirakumo's genuine care. I think just like Oboro helped the heroes to round up everyone, Kurogiri will round up Tomura's allies.

And once they are there, Tomura will rise up to them and will be the hero of the villains, joining forces with Deku and everyone to finally finish off AFO (and maybe save his friends). Because even with the little agency he had over his life, those choices were his alone, and he will be able to root his identity in that.

[super-paper]

The visual representation of “the symbol of fear” being a mask that Tenko wears, and that mask being ripped off once someone finally sees who he is at his core….

….paired with a visual representation of Izuku’s unfeeling “symbol of peace” mask also being ripped off to reveal who HE truly is at his core, because he saw into the depths of Tomura’s soul and couldn’t ignore it…….

Bruh…….,, _(:°з」∠)_

[transhawks]

The whole point of this manga is that people are more than their quirks. That their quirks do not and should not define them. If you look at Keigo as finished in his narrative, as useless to the story without his wings, you are genuinely buying into the bullshit he has told himself about having to prove useful with his dirty wings. You are believing in the same idea that led him to manipulate and kill Twice because he was worried about the latter's quirk being so dangerous. You are agreeing with the idea that Tomura can do nothing but destroy.

That is not what this manga is about. It's about breaking the beliefs we have swallowed about ourselves or have been forcefed from society to abusers shoving them into us.

Keigo Takami has never tried to be more than Hawks. More than the Winged Hero. He believed that boy was a broken, dirty one who couldn't help anyone and was willing to put him aside for an identity groomed for him, because he is still internally the child being asked what good is he for by a neglectful and abusive mother.

But Tomie and the HPSC are wrong. Hawks was wrong. Even AFO remarks that Keigo's quirk is garbage. Losing his wings, gradually and now with this final removal, is actually Horikoshi making Keigo reckon with who he is as a person. And people are not their quirks. The whole point is that Keigo's cage was always, always himself.

Hawks can't trap him any longer. He has now face up to who he is outside of heroism, outside of his quirk. So this isn't the "end" to Hawks as a character because it was never about who Hawks is. It was always about Keigo.

[itsnothingofinterest]

Everyone and their mother's been saying it; but I to fully expect the League to be instrumental in bringing Tomura back if they can get to Mt. Fuji.

AFO went on about how everything in Tomura's life was by his design; and for most of it he seems to be right and I'm still mad about it. He told Kotaro to have Tenko, may have helped build his house, Tenko's friends whom he first wanted to be a hero for were plants, his quirk that he killed his family with was a plant, AFO told him how good & right it is to use villainous violence, and hell he's most likely the one who got Tomura his 1st video game as a cherry on top. There's next to nothing to Tenko or Tomura without AFO's fingerprints on it…with one major obvious exception.

Tomura's time as leader of the League from the Summer Camp onwards was basically all him; the bonds they forged, the motivations they gave Tomura, and the hope Tomura inspired in them were his influence alone with little to no direct involvement from AFO.

His identity as the grand commander of the villains is the one piece of identity AFO cannot undermine. And while reclaiming all of what AFO influenced and recently undermined isn't impossible for Tomura, it may even be probable in the long run; I suspect it's easier said then done if Tomura's got no foundation to fight for/from (which was the entire point for AFO to undermine as much as he could), so his connections to the League might be just the kind of core to an identity Tomura needs to fight AFO and play his part in putting him down for good, if the League can just get to him to deliver some reminders & motivational speeches.

Although, I can't help but wonder if the heroes failure to actually save the League members so far might help with that, come back to bite them in the butt, or even both. I can easily see Toga & Spinner's message to Tomura being along the lines of "Shigaraki, you promised you'd destroy everything and clear the way for an easier world! Are you really gonna let this loser whose already died twice get in your way? Kick him to the curb and get to it already, we're still waiting on you to save us!!!" simply because they haven’t gotten a lot of reason not to think that way. But eh, might not work as well if it didn’t support Tomura’s existing convictions anyway; so maybe them still wanting to be villains for this conversation is for the best.

(On that topic: I could see Dabi's line to Tomura being more like: "Boss, you're the one guy in this world whose ever truly surpassed All Might! To lose to his favourite punching bag, it's so sad I can't stand it!! Quit acting so pathetic!!!" I'd even be okay with him paralleling his dad yelling at All Might in Kamino for it.

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

Idk what to tell to the people who still don't get that although is okay to teach kids the rules to live in a society (like respect others or don't kill or whatever), Kotaro Shimura, Enji Todoroki and Toga's parents didn't care as much for society rules as they care for the rules that made them feel okay at home.

Which in the end caused the main villain trio to reject authority and society and turn into violence, since they did try to use words as kids and were royally ignored.

Tenko, Touya and Toga tried very hard to be good kids, but in their parents conception it was not enough 'cause they couldn't repress some of their needs: they wanted their dads and moms to accept them as they were, to accept who they wanted to be, to accept the way they expressed love and accept the way they interacted with their surroundings.

In Tenko's case, Kotaro was unable to accept his kid desire to become a hero. His could be the worst case in bnha, given the violence of his tragedy and how misfortune (maybe even something else) played on it ending so badly. Tomura himself said that house rejected his very identity, even tho Hana tried to support him in secret and Nao stood up for him, little too late. For what we saw of him as a child, his only defect as a son was wanting to be a pro-hero, dream that got him beaten up for, grounded in a rather cruelly manner. Kotaro's trauma turned him into an irrational man, his hatred for heroes was both the build up and the catalysis of the tragedy that ended the lives of the people he loved the most.

Tenko didn't become a villain because he was an evil kid. He became a villain because AFO wanting it so and because Kotaro inculcated in him such extreme hatred.

In Touya's case, it's a bit more complicated. I don't believe Enji's obsession was completely evil in nature, although his actions were truly selfish and it became later abusive, when his desperation blinded him to the point he was unable to understand how bad he has turned out to be. Like in Tenko's case, the mother is at fault only in yhe sense that their lack of intervention allowed the situation to escalate 'til they couldn't prevent it anymore. Touya's case differentiates itself in the fact that he was older than Tenko, his behavior declining over the years into extreme violence, unlike the way Tenko exploded in murder glee when Kotaro hit him one last time.

The lack of proper attention from both Enji and Rei allowed Touya's behavior to become a tragedy. Their negligence, Enji's focus on his work and Shouto (as a project not a son) and Rei's role of a caretaker yet not a mother, combined with the incapacity of Natsuo and Fuyumi to understand what Touya was going through (really, only Shouto could, but at that point Touya hated him too much and Shouto was way too young)... Well, it didn't end well for a kid that didn't want help anymore but attention on his own terms. He was tired of adapting, the same way Tenko rebelled in his insistence of acting the hero way.

The same house rule ( YOU CANNOT BE A HERO ) sent them both to AFO's hands, one way or another. They were kids who couldn't act the way their dads wanted, so fuck them I guess.

That part is compatible to Toga's case. Kinda.

Toga's parents are by far the most twisted of the bunch, which is a lot to say considering that Kotaro hit his kids and Enji even hit his wife. Yet, without having to touch a single hair of their little girl, they inflicted damage so deep she preferred to become a runaway criminal than to stay at home one more day.

At least Kotaro and Enji valued at some level Tenko and Touya's existence. Toga's parents didn't care about her at all. She was as good as a broken doll, an imperfect piece of their furniture, something they wish wasn't related to them at all. Enji was at least worry about his son and he loved him at some degree, the same way Kotaro worry over Tenko was born out of his fear of losing his family. Nothing of it excuses what they do and let it be said that Enji and Kotaro did saw Touya and Tenko as monsters at some point (when Touya tried to kill Shouto and on his Dabi era, when Tenko killed his family and turned to Kotaro). Yet it doesn't compare to the way Toga's parents immediately erased her from their lives, even denying any affiliation. They sent her to that therapy like a car needing to be repaired. She was a sign of status, she was an object that they failed to produce, she was an aberration and a freak, she deserved to be put down.

From the three od them, Toga was the one who struggled the most to fit in socially, not to society standards tho. To her parents.

If all these parents had cared for their kids more than they cared for his own stupid rules maybe things would have been different. But that's the core of their problems, they don't need the whole world to accept them, they need to treat the internalized traumas their parents left them with, the self-hatred and the feeling of inadequacy and the need for acceptance (of themselves) and recognition.

That's why Toga, Izuku and Shouto are the key for their recovery. Acting as mirrors, they are meant to provide the closure the villain trio desperately need. It's not just a sibling or a nemesis bond, but a recognition of the self through the other situation.

If they can accept themselves and correct their ways and get free from their parents absurd rules, if they can move past the child need for their parents validation, maybe they can finally exist in a less painful way.

[demidokuriya]

My thoughts on chapter 418 and 419.

In fact, the first part of this post was written by me long before the spoilers of chapter 419, but it simply was not published. I think it's time to share my opinion.

I saw a post a while ago in which a person complained about some annoying anonymous people who claimed that AFO was nothing more than evil in the flesh and that he had no feelings. This inspired me to write a post about this because I strongly disagree with this opinion.

While this is not a surprise given the AFO flashback chapters, I think people shouldn't take the Narrator's words in these chapters at face value because All for One is the most unreliable narrator I've ever seen. The same Tomura in chapter 418 experiences an identity crisis, because for the first time he began to realize that he was not created for destruction. You can watch the end of chapter 237 where Shigaraki comes to the conclusion that the reason he killed his family was because he really wanted to do it, but that's NOT the case.

This is what AFO convinced him of, repeating over and over again that Shigaraki was born to destroy.

This is what AFO meant when he said in Chapter 418 that Tomura had never made a single independent decision in his entire life: because AFO had brainwashed Tenko so much that even when AFO wasn't there to show him the way, Tomura continued to think that way in a way that supported the ideas of destruction that AFO wanted from him.

At the same time, All for One constantly denies that he has any human feelings or emotions, to the point of convincing himself that the tears he shed in front of Kudo were a tool of manipulation, although this makes no sense. I was always convinced that AFO, no matter how much he pretended to be an emotionless monster, always felt heartache over the loss of Yoichi.

Now that the spoilers for chapter 419 have been released, despite my overall shock at what happened in this chapter (I really didn't expect Izuku to lose his arms, even if there were signs for it), my opinion hasn't changed much. While I have to admit that I couldn't have foreseen the extent to which AFO interfered in Tenko's life (to the point where AFO encouraged Kotaro to have a second child), it did confirm what I wanted to write about Chapter 418. AFO controlled every aspect of Shigaraki's life, right down to his thoughts, without Tomura realizing it.

At the same time, I think chapter 419 also confirmed that AFO was an unreliable narrator in chapters 407-408, and that he actually has feelings, despite how much of a monster AFO presented himself as in those two chapters. If you pay attention to AFO's eyes when he took over Tomura's body in Chapter 419, you can see how AFO is devastated.

Despite AFO defeating Shigaraki's will, he does not feel triumphant. He doesn't seem to care about his victory. And the reason for this is quite simple: he lost Yoichi. AFO has lost his little brother, and now all he can do is return to his main plan to take over the world. Although without Yoichi it doesn't mean as much to him now.

[20001541]

🙌 isekaied into captain hero afo au!!! Please share some ideas if you want!

yes, I have some! gonna be messy as I'm still thinking through a lot of things but here we go.

for people who don't know the premise of this au is that after afo dies in canon he gets isekaied into the captain hero comic universe and wakes up as captain hero. he's forced to be a good hero and he's unable to do any evil deeds. even if he tries they somehow always turn out to be good in the end.

anyways I like to this au as it's afo at his most miserable. his attitude is mainly like why couldn't whatever power out there that forced him here just have let him just die? why force him through this humiliating tirade? theres praise from civilians which he finds sorta nice, but then he's reminded of how captain hero will suffer a humiliating defeat by the demon king and all the pain and strife he has to go through until he defeats him once and for all. pain and strife that afo will be forced to go through and he's going to have to defeat the guy he's admired and wanted to be like since he was a kid. he thinks he should've been made the demon king in this world, he's so upset about this more than anything he's forced to fight the demon king not to take his spot but only to stop him from doing more evil. the demon king would be so confused as to why the hero is always complimenting his work lol.

but I think it would be an interesting way to explore the man beneath the villain persona. we all know afo has made his whole identity about being villain, to the point where he only goes by afo and nothing else. so you put him in a situation where he no longer has his power, total control and in the body of a character he hates. well it'll be interesting to see afo's true colours shine through as the mask he's so carefully crafted throughout the years begins cracking more and he is at his most vulnerable. 

and as I said yes yoichi also got isekaied as well, he actually got isekaied into the body of an upcoming journalist thats chases after captain hero and tries getting pictures of him and talk with him. yoichi enjoys the quiet life and freedom he has. he only got to enjoy one month away from afo before dying so he's enjoying his freedom. so you can imagine how he feels when he sees afo once again only in captain heroes hero suit. at first he laughs right in his face then tries to get away because that's the last person he wants to see right now. afo is so so so happy, happier than he's ever been and he kind of forces him into a hug. he can suffer anything as long as yoichi is there by his side. he's basically like even if I wanted to kidnap you and force you to stay by my side (I do), I can't because the rules of this universe won't allow me to so you're safe :). yoichi isn't amused, but after some arguing he decides he'll keep in contact with afo and even help him with some hero stuff.

afo and yoichi get to talk with each other without having to fight each other and it's awkward. they choose to avoid the topic of the past when trying to spend time together however it's hard to ignore the elephant in the room. eventually though they begin having some normal conversations and get to know each other better. it feels oddly domestic and strange, but it's nice in a way and it also makes afo slowly realize how much happier yoichi looks and how yoichi was more willing to open up to him when afo isn't forcing his presence and beliefs on him. he won't admit it, but it hurts to see how much better yoichi seems without him.

there is a catch to all this however, yoichi actually took the place of a character that dies during some point in the story. yoichi knows this detail because he read past the first three volumes, but afo doesn't know because he stopped reading after volume 3. yoichi doesn't tell him about this until later on which almost causes afo to have a meltdown at the thought of losing yoichi all over again. most of the conflict lies here, will they even be able to save yoichi or will he just die a terrible death once more? is afo forever going to be forced into the role of the hero or can he get out of it? putting afo into situations he feels completely helpless in and has to cooperate with yoichi, good stuff to me. can't rely on your previous methods of getting out of trouble so what will you do now that almost everything has been taken away from you? that's all I really got lol.

[bibibbon]

MHA 413 leak rant

For a war commander kudo is really risking everything. Look kudo is a war commander so logically speaking he would prioritise and should prioritise people's lives more than whatever silly idea he has of freely giving shigaraki a free power up while leaving an Already exhausted midoriya defenceless?!?! Like he wants AFO/shigaraki dead but he thinks of an idea like that. Like it's a logical idea I guess I can see where it comes from but did we forget that shigaraki isn't a regular human and already is able to have the mind and physical capacity to deal with multiple quirks at once so how is the whole let's give him OFA to slow him down and make him enter an almost nomu state gonna work if we already know it kinda won't?!?!? Also the whole idea of the vestiges fighting tomura seems a bit iffy to me like?!?!

Why is Bakugo here and why is he used as an example. Why is horikoshi trying to bring bakugo into everything it's getting boring and way too out of hand. Also what was the point in using bakugo as an example I don't get it kudo man you have seen bakugo abuse izuku for years and you're like yes lemme use your abuser as an example for how this transfer will act like?!?!?! It's a horrible idea honestly or may I say horribly introduced and executed but the point is there was no need for bakugo being here in this chapter in anyway shape or form so idk why he is there and why it has to be kudo that mentions him like seriously what was the point.

I get the idea but it's low-key horrible. Ok i get where the whole idea came from but it's horrible and you need to admit that. Like the whole idea of having to defeat tomura from the inside because he is "too strong" isn't as great as it sounds. Even if they are successful with such an idea wouldn't tomura be able to sense it considering that he has danger sense. Also where is danger sense why don't we see shigaraki use it?!?! Did hori realise that izu would be in a major disadvantage did shigaraki just becomes dumber and forget to use it or is izuku trying to do something like toga did and attack him with the intention of helping him and not harm him? Guess we will never know the last statement cos of izukus lack of INTROSPECTION!!

Stars and stripes. (1) why is star and stripes in the OFA vestige world are the OFA and AFO vestige world's overlapping and becoming one or something because if they are then why can't the OFA vestiges fight shigaraki from there it makes no sense why izuku has to lose or transfer his quirks to shigaraki so they can kill him from the inside in. (2) why the hell isn't shigaraki dead?!?!? The whole point on why shig didn't die in the beginning when fighting star is because of his identity crisis which was an interesting plot point but executed horribly and now that we know that shigaraki recognises himself as a symbol of destruction and chaos shigaraki shouldn't he die?!?! I mean why is he just mentally injured and showing tenko or something why isn't he dead? It makes no sense is horikoshi saying that tenko and shigaraki aren't the same person because if they aren't why is shigaraki still alive and why the hell is it that the crack is tenko or something or a sad child it makes no sense. The whole plot point doesn't make sense like SHIGARAKI AND TENKO ARE THE SAME PERSON WHY IS HORI SAYING THEY AREN'T?!?!

Izuku, poor izuku. This chapter really really shows that horikoshi doesn't really care about izuku and how much character development he lacks and it's just sad. The vestiges realise that he doesn't wanna let go of OFA because he views it as a gift from his favourite hero and that's it. (1) this in my opinion shows how much all might and izuku lack in their relationship. Izuku still views all might as a grand hero or some bs like that and not as a flawed person and father figure he really cares about and is connected to through quirk and blood. (2) the lack of izukus introspection. Look I go on and on about this I know I do but it really doesn't help Izuku's character and the way horikoshi tries to depict and illustrate his character. I think it would of been an ironic thing that deku the word that stands for a nobody and a wooden doll is used for izuku and we see his character become a doll who has to strip all his feelings and sacrifice everything for the sake of the world and nothing but horikoshi low-key doesn't do this properly and I am pretty sure that's not even his plan fro izuku which makes it suck even more. (3) we are consistently told in this chapter how izuku feels or how he is supposed to feel and we don't see what he feels which to me is utter bs considering that this is his fight and that he is going through some tough stuff rn. ALSO HOW THE HELL CAN IZUKU Individually TRANSFER QUIRKS?!?!? OR IS IT JUST FOCUSING ON THE IDEA THAT SHIGARAKI WILL STEAL A VESTIGE NEXT

All might? Honestly speaking it's cool that we got an all might interaction but it didn't offer much like we caught up with what he is doing and how he is but that's kind of just it for me. We didn't get anymore like it may of felt out of the blue and wants necessarily paid much attention to which I guess I might be complaining too much but ehh he was just there nothing much 🤷‍♀️ he kind of useless rn. Also the idea of all might sensing izuku was that supposed to be a dad might moment where we see how they are connected in an inseparable way because if it is I feel like this chapter low-key contradicted itself with it

Ps this is my opinion but MHAs writing has gotten into a much more devastating state lately and I feel like horikoshi really can't be bothered but imma still sticks round for the ending just cos I can.

[fractiflos]

For the fairy tale ask game: All for One as Rumpelstiltskin would be fun please! I always did feel that the original fairy tale never adequately explained why Rumpelstiltskin wanted to steal a baby. With All for One's canon childnapping tendencies there could be many reasons, so I will leave it completely open for you to decide who he wants to kidnap. Izuku, Tomura, Touya, and maybe even Yoichi would be logical choices but you could also go further afield.

I love giving backstory to things!

When the Shigaraki's were 3 someone saw baby Yoichi, took him, and adopted him while AFO was out getting food. Ever since then, he's become obsessed with getting his brother back by trying to steal other white-haired babies. Unfortunately, he either fails, or there's something about them that makes him give them back.

Meanwhile, Yoichi married Kudo and now they're going to have a baby. But they are poor and need to find a way to make money. Luckily, in this world of magic, Yoichi can turn straw into gold. Unfortunately, greedy king Destro hears of this and locks Yoichi up in a tower and demands that he spin all the straw in that room to gold or be executed.

AFO heard about a white-haired guy locked in a tower with a baby on the way and thought "I can exploit that." So, he sneaks in and offers to use his own magic to spin the ridiculous amount of straw in that room to gold, in exchange for the red beaded necklace. (It's been 20 years since Yoichi was taken, so they don't recognize each other and AFO's been fooled before by other people who just happen to have the same name as his brother) Yoichi is reluctant to give up a gift from Kudo but agrees and voila, the straw is turned to gold. The next morning Yoichi is locked into a bigger room of straw and told to do it again. This time AFO does it in exchange for Yoichi's wedding ring. He is even more reluctant this time, but eventually gives in. On the third day, he is put into an even bigger room but when AFO comes by, he has nothing else to give. So, AFO suggests he gives him his first-born child. He argues, but is desperate to see his lover, and thinks that maybe he can convince him otherwise when payment time comes around.

As he's being shuffled to a new room, Yoichi escapes and he and Kudo go to a new kingdom ruled by king All Might, who grants them asylum. But eventually, their child is born. A white-haired boy who they don't have time to name before AFO comes by. Yoichi tries everything, but he insists on taking the child, before saying that if Yoichi can guess his real name in 3 days, he'll leave them alone.

Yoichi wanders the woods in despair when he comes across a small campsite and hears AFO bragging to himself by a fire. "Ha, my plan is almost complete. This one is him for sure. That stupid man just needs to get my name wrong for one last day. I mean, who could ever guess that my real name is Allforone" So on the third day, Yoichi gives a few more guesses before he just happens to guess Allforone. He gets so angry at the loss that he loses control of his magic and stomps his feet so hard, he opens up a chasm and falls into it, never to be seen again.

This was a fun one, especially with AFO's monologuing tendencies. I left the identity of the baby ambiguous, because it could be fun for it to be Izuku, but have we considered red-eyed, white curly-haired Tomura as the Kudoichi secret lovechild? Although AFO would throw him out once he sees the red eyes.

[deusvervewrites]

I've been asked before how I would rewrite All For One to be a more interesting Villain and I've had more thought on the matter. I've previously mentioned how Principal Asano ties into themes better than AFO, using a weak characterization to help the story and not hurt it, and how Sicks is a better case of a Villain who is Evil for Evil's Sake.

Now I'd like to make a case for a better way to characterize All For One himself.

All For One should be a hero fanboy.

All For One should finish his brother's comics. Obsess over them. Over the stories of Heroes who triumph in spite of impossible odds, overcome the insurmountable.

All For One should be a Villain because no Hero Story is complete without a good Villain. He should spend hours fantasizing about how dramatic the story will be when he reveals what he did to Shigaraki. He wants to steal Shigaraki's body because he's afraid that Shigaraki will ruin the story structure, or worse, win.

All For One's ultimate goal should be to die in a blaze of glory, but not his own. The glory belongs to the Hero who took him down.

I've not read Order of the Stick, but this scene almost gets it:

Tarquin: You're a bard right? How many stories have you heard in which a single hero vanquishes a wicked empire? Elan: I dunno... dozens, I guess. Tarquin: What is the one thing they all have in common? The one fact that they all share? Elan: The hero always wins! Tarquin: Arguable. No, the one thing they all have in common is this : The wicked empire exists. It has existed for some time, and it will continue to exist if no hero intervenes. Don't you see Elan? The rules of drama to which you subscribe as a bard tell us that such tyrannies can exist — indeed, MUST exist — and persist long enough that no one realistically thinks that they can be defeated. Else, where is the drama in a hero opposing them?

The difference being Tarquin sees winning and losing as identical, as he is either living as a king or dying as a legend, but All For One wants to lose.

All For One should be fucking obsessed with Heroes. Constantly fucking with them to up the stakes and make their hardships worse so that they're all the stronger, all the more Heroic for overcoming them.

That would make him insanely creepy! (Nagito Komada does basically this same thing in Dangonronpa 2 and it's fucked up and great). He becomes a foil to Midoriya in some really fascinating ways! It would also tie directly into the themes of Legacy and Hero Worship.

After all, the world's biggest Hero fan is the one making sure there's an ultimate Villain for them all to fight.

And therein lies the beauty. Because by doing this, by making All For One a walking mouthpiece for the toxic behavior of Hero Worshipers, you can prove him wrong. All For One wouldn't die dramatically here the way he wants to. An All For One written like this is perfectly set up as a deliberate anti-climax. Taken down by Heroes with more important things to do than monologue with Golden Age wannabees: namely, saving lives.

He doesn't even need to be beaten by Heroes at all.

[puppetmaster55]

*points at the manga*

the point has never been that AFO is a supreme evil but that bnha's world is a post-apocalypse and AFO's childhood was itself the early sections of that apocalypse where the world was falling apart for such a long time that it literally took damn near 200 years, for All Might, for the world to begin to really stabilize back to normal.

also we've had hints throughout that AFO is not the genius mastermind, he's pulling xanatos gambits (every outcome benefits him, and this one outcome in particular is devastating to our heroes) where he's just gambling. using powerful quirks hurts him, he's haunted by the vestiges of every quirk he steals for as long as they're in his possession, his battle style is "overwhelm with superior firepower" rather than specialized tactics, he cried when he attacked Second in the wake of Yoichi's death.

hell, we don't even have a name for him! he doesn't have a real name associated with himself to humanize himself, after we spend all that time with the Toga flashback talking about the nature of villain and hero names and the separation from personal identity!

this man-turned-child has spent this fight having all of his villainous veneer stripped away by Yagi's taunts that we're getting to the emotional core of what drives him as he reverts younger and younger and loses more and more self-control over his emotional state.

this is someone who has had nobody reach out to save him, and thus had to become the villain to try to save himself.

and he's fighting someone who's core goal was to create peace where everyone could exist with a smile on their face, who is out there saving people and whose signature phrase is a declaration that he is here to help

[super-paper]

:re your tags about body motifs in bnha got me curious about something. I can think off the top of my head several examples of how this applies to the trio, and a couple more about how this applies to AFO. But can I ask you to expand on how the eye motif is present in AFO specifically? The hands and mouth are obvious, but I can't say I've ever picked up on the symbolism around eyes when it comes to him. Well, unless you're referring to that scene with the sensors in Tartarus. But I'm curious if there's more that I missed, and since I'm a slut about themes and symbolism (and the eye theme relating to the todofam in particular), I would love a deep dive into it and how they're connected, if you don't mind sharing, of course 👀 Really love your meta btw

Thank youu~!

Yea, the eyes def receive less focus overall compared to the emphasis placed on AFO's mouth/hands-- but I feel that AFO's association with eyes is still pretty important even if they don't get as much focus, and the rare scenes where we -do- get to focus on his eyes + his relationship with eyes do a lot for his character.

↑ Breaking down AFO's character design to its barest essentials, you can see Hori more or less designed his "true" appearance with these three elements in mind: mouths, hands, and eyes. A perpetual mask-like grin, the stigmata marks to both hands, and completely blank white eyes. Hori uses the composition and lighting in his art to further emphasize these aspects, usually by placing focus on one part/motif at a time-- AFO is essentially introduced to us in pieces, bit by bit, body part by body part.

I would say act 1 focuses primarily on his hands, while act 2 shifts to focusing on his mouth/smile. The final act is where we finally start exploring AFO's relation to eyes-- and imo, Hori chose to focus on AFO's eyes last b/c AFO's eyes seem to be what connect him to his humanity and """true""" feelings:

Panels that emphasize AFO's eyes specifically are almost always tied to Yoichi! It's a neat and completely loaded little detail. In what's heavily implied to be the aftermath of Yoichi's death, we suddenly shift from obscuring AFO's eyes to obscuring his mouth-- the total reverse of how he's typically depicted during flashback scenes. His eyes (and tears) receive all the focus. The narration doesn't match or address what we're actually*seeing* in a fashion that's eerily similar to the way that Tomura narrates over the deaths of his family. There's a lot of set up here already, and I'm looking forward to see how it all ultimately pays off.

And if eyes are ultimately the motif that ties AFO to his humanity, then the lack of eyes throughout Act's 1 & 2 also feels intentional.

Blank eyes are also a design trait he shares with Twice (i.e. "Guy whose own quirk drove him to insanity and completely wrecked his sense of identity/individuality") and Sir Nighteye (i.e. "Guy whose quirk lets him see into the future of others, and the future he saw caused him to fall into despair and become a bitter husk of his former self")-- both characters are depicted w/ blank eyes for 90% of their screen time, but "gain" pupils during key scenes. Twice stands out in particular, bc Hori starts consistently drawing him with pupils immediately after he's able to verify his identity and overcome the trauma associated with his quirk.

Also worth mentioning: Jin kicks off his entire arc talking about the importance of knowing who you are and lamenting about the pains that come with losing sight of yourself/no longer being able to connect with or trust others, and he completes his arc by affirming that he knows exactly who he is and dedicating his heart completely to others. Nighteye's entire arc is about smashing past his fear of the future and the fear of change while *also* learning to value Mirio and Izuku as individuals instead of merely viewing them as vessels for OFA. Both arcs are very much relevant to AFO's whole deal as a character/antagonist and the overall theme(s) of MHA as a whole. Twice and Nighteye serve as semi-heroic foils to AFO who manage overcome the same shortcomings that AFO implicitly struggles with, specifically because they allowed themselves to care about others-- So imo it's neat that these three all share this particular design trait!

they're also the two characters whose deaths have the most narrative impact outside of Yoichi and Nana/The Shimura Fam (whoops)

The final act has also been placing more and more emphasis on how a person's eyes look when they finally get to be their best selves and follow their dreams, and how they sparkle and shine when they think about their origins and their hopes for the future (and I've talked about how this contrasts with Tomura's fairly dead-eyed expression whenever he talks about his "dreams" of destroying everything before (link!), so I'm pretty pleased that the narrative is now calling attention to how a person's eyes look + making the total lack of ~shine~ in Tomura's eyes a very intentional thing).

AFO addresses this directly-- on the surface, he appears to be echoing Touya's desire to be "seen" and expresses resentment that people aren't looking at him. But where Touya longs to be seen in a way that truly validates his humanity and reason for existing, AFO instead wants to be "seen" as something completely devoid of those human qualities. Dabi wants people to see Touya, Mysterious Shigaraki X only wants people to see "AFO." He wants to be a looming, mythical figure who blots out the sun itself-- and when people look towards their future, they should only be seeing a path that ends with him and him alone:

This sequence will never not be thematically relevant

Tomura, Himiko, and Touya all desire the basic human connections that are associated with Hands/Mouths/Eyes. Even as they continue to lash out and use their respective motifs in increasingly violent/self-destructive ways, their core desire never changes. The desire to be touched gently, the desire to be spoken to like a normal girl, and the desire to be truly seen-- that longing for human intimacy (and who they ultimately seek understanding/intimacy from) betrays what their true desires are more than anything else.

AFO shares the same body motifs as the hero and villain trios, but he's a corrupted version of those motifs and represents what hands/mouths/eyes are capable of at their absolute worst. AFO doesn't truly "see" others. AFO doesn't see people as individuals, he only sees them as extensions of himself or as bit-part "roles" to be played out in his increasingly off-the-rails real people fanfiction. AFO doesn't want people to look to the future or even attempt looking beyond him. AFO doesn't want anyone to see what lies behind his shadowy mask and the AFO persona. AFO counts on society to avert their eyes from problems and pretend they don't see, so he can swoop in and play the benevolent savior to those who have been abandoned. AFO doesn't want anyone to see "Tenko," he only wants them to see "Shigaraki." Et cetera et cetera et cetera.

Anyway--!!

There's also the underlying implication that AFO wants everyone to have eyes that are just like his:

Blank. Empty. Completely devoid of spark and soul, pushed past the brink of total despair, with no hope whatsoever for a future.

[irontragedyreview]

Well after the analysis or attempted analysis of Tomura, it's time to talk about Izuku. As I said with Tomura, many men who read shonen should be prohibited from making interpretations about certain character traits or even commenting the manga. Seriously, since the leaks came out and began to be commented on, a large number of men have commented on the recent events about Izuku and his arms as a kind of punishment for wanting to do a talk no jutsu (Guys, please let Naruto rest, I love Naruto but even I know when to blurt out certain things and this complaint in different fandoms is already pathetic).

Before doing any analysis of Izuku, I want to make certain points clear. 1) Izuku and his fight aren’t over yet, there is still fight in that boy and we are talking about Izuku who fought to rescue bk without his two arms too, so yes I don't think this will take him out of the fight; 2) I can't guess what will happen to Izuku's arms, the truth is that there are two possible ways for his arms to be returned by a quirk I doubt it's Eri, she doesn't have enough energy, either Chisaki, since as far as we know he can’t use his quirk without arms, perhaps Tomura when he returns can do so considering the original nature of decay, but considering that the quirk implanted in him was modified in a laboratory, I don't know if it can evolve like that. Another option is for Horikoshi to go for what we already know prosthetics after the war, so far no character with lost limbs has recovered them; 3) Tomura isn’t dead, he is there and he is going to emerge to kick AFO's ass along with Izuku; 4) Sorry to all Aizawa fans but the truth is I'm not very interested in his plot with Shirakumo, honestly the most interesting thing about seeing Kurogiri again would be to see if Shirakumo had recovered his true identity and know if there is any part of him that he cares about Tomura beyond Kurogiri's programming.

Having said that, let's start with Izuku. One of the things that led me to write this analysis of him was the number of times I saw that the loss of his arms is a kind of punishment for not wanting to kill Tomura (seriously, men get out of your edgy phase and stop of thinking that characters with compassion are inferior who don’t accept reality) and on the other hand that this was a chronicle announced by Midoriya's recklessness, on this point I don’t disagree with the idea that Izuku losing a limb hasn’t been mentioned more than once in the manga also he was obviously going to get physical injuries outside of the OFA with gearshift , but I disagree with comparing this moment to Midoriya being reckless.

I’m not going to deny that Midoriya tends to be reckless, many of his fights and his trip with the OFA were him pushing his body to the limit, but this wasn’t out of pure recklessness, no one who reads the manga and understands Midoriya's character can’t ignore the way he’s always trying to be enough, above all Izuku fears failing the people who gave him a chance. His first meeting with All Might when his hero tells him to see reality and leaves while walking home Izuku tells himself that he shouldn’t cry, that he knew it was a fantasy. I say this because one of the main points that many forget when they criticize Midoriya is that he never prepared his body, but the truth is that he was always realistic for what society told him he should expect, his notebooks and his desire to be a hero were a desperate attempt to deny that reality that everyone wanted to mark him, but when All Might his hero tells him to abandon, there is no reason to deny it anymore and it’s in this first chapter where Midoriya considers accepting his reality twice, the first once with All Might and the second time with bk before AM offered him OFA.

With All Might everything changes, for the first time someone gives him the opportunity that he dreamed so much however, we see for the first time the carelessness he has for himself, in his training he overexerts and reaches a fatigue that makes him makes him faint, AM notices the overdemand and scolds him but Izuku knows that he´s at a disadvantage against others, it’s unhealthy but he understands that everyone there has been born with quirks and has been training for longer than him, so he really wants to take this change, he’ll have to put in the effort. Here AM should have insisted that Izuku focus on his health, but again AM also doesn’t know how to set a limit to his own demands, and therefore he is not the one to set a limit, if he adjusts his routine but doesn’t prevent the overdemanding of Midoriya continued his development.

Throughout the manga, Izuku has taken his body to unexpected limits, his first fight with Muscular, Eri's arc where to stop the advance of the rewind he took the OFA to its maximum so he destroyed himself at the same speed Eri healed, the entire first war arc where his fight with Tomura is literally fierce, and his solo arc where he is pushed to the limit of standing. I say all this because Izuku's recklessness comes from his own conception of heroism that leaves aside his own well-being, but above all because Izuku separates his own self between Deku who can do it and the useless Deku who can't save anyone, He sees himself this way because he hates his old self, the quirkless, defenseless part, the one that AM saw at first and told him that he couldn't be a hero, even today no one has told Midoriya in his face that he can be a hero without a quirk, which is more than enough, no one told him that, class 1A told him that they were friends, Ochako said that he was special for himself not because of his quirk and when Aoyama introduced himself as a traitor and Kirishima said something like "what does it matter that he doesn't have a quirk", none of these are words of encouragement for someone who lived much of his childhood being bullied and attacked.

All this brings us to chapter 419, some say is the result of recklessness or in the case of many others a punishment that Midoriya deserves for wanting to save a villain, seeing compassion as weakness and harm as punishment is so stupid about all because there is something much more interesting and devastating. Izuku during all this time is sacrificing every piece of himself to reach Tomura, he sacrificed OFA and now his own arms because he really wanted to reach him, he’s fulfilling his own words he wants to know, he needs to understand so that their confrontation isn’t just senseless violence and the saddest thing is that trying to reach Tomura and finally take his hand, refusing to let him go even if it could disintegrate him, is the act that allowed AFO to take control again.

All this time Izuku is doubtful, he doesn't have a certain plan because the situation is difficult but he also can't ignore that crying child, that's why when Tomura screams that he’s beyond salvation or no longer human, Izuku continues to insist the opposite and the moment where he finally catches up to him is the moment where he loses, because Izuku's actions weakened Tomura and allowed AFO to take control, but one thing should be clear Izuku wasn’t reckless when he took Tenko's hands, he knew the consequences and he still wanted to reach him, he wouldn’t regret it because if there is something that characterizes Izuku as a character, it’s the great capacity he has to feel compassion and his kindness.

[doodlegirl1998]

Another thing I hate about Hawks killing Twice is that usually when someone on the side of good does something like actually killing someone, there're consequences.

Like the character loses respect from their peers, they start to think badly of them, their image is tarnished and now the character has to find a way to prove otherwise.

But here with Hawks? He loses nothing.

He's still seen as a hero and no one gets onto him for murdering a potentially mentally ill person. And when the twice clones do show up... he literally has no reaction to it and what he's done.

It all really solidifies the glorification of heroism and that they really can do whatever they want and get away with it, from family abuse to literal murder.

Hori REALLY needs to learn that in order to make themes and plot points like these work, there needs to be actual consequences and backlash.

Hi @theloganator101 👋

Exactly. Exploring consequences to things that happen in his story is something that Hori does really poorly but this is especially shown and salt is rubbed into the wound here with what happened to Twice.

Personally speaking, I liked Twice. He was funny, a sympathetic villain and someone who really could have used a hero reaching out to save him (like how other heroes are reaching out to save his friends at the moment - Touya, Toga and Shig.) So to see this character who fell into villiany through a combination of bad luck and mental illness - who has been canonically shown to be easily manipulated time and time again reach his end by - being manipulated one last time. Being outmatched by Hawks (who he considered a friend) be quite literally stabbed in the back by him. That was already a very bitter pill to swallow.

Hawks lost me after that. He showed no guilt for killing Twice, he looked very cold during his press conference and not one of the press doubted his actions.

No one - not even the other heroes despite the no kill order heroes have - looked down on Hawks for murdering a mentally ill man. A villain who was clearly outmatched by him. And thanks to his double agent gig, Hawks could have knocked out and took to prison easily at any time Twice's back was turned.

He didn't lose his wings - or even his looks despite being burnt to shit by Dabi. All he's got is one new facial scar, shorter hair and being briefly unable to talk for a time. Hawks legitimately got NO long lasting consequences for murdering Twice in cold blood. And this angers me.

Hawks used Twice's memory (who he calls in his head by his first name in a very entitled move) to justify supporting a known child abuser who abused one of Twice's friends into villiany (lmao fuck right off Hawks.) Then from that point his 'guilt' is forgotten - Hawks evolves into an Endeavor bootlicker to an extreme degree so much so Endeav's shoes must be constantly shiny. It's just sad and pathetic to see.

Even Toga at the moment is too busy having an identity crisis to use her Twice clones on anything more distinctive than "Kill all heroes" or on having a identity crisis.

She is meant to have been Twice's best friend.

Honestly how I would have improved this arc would have been by:

Narrowing down the Twice Clones focus to "DIE Hawks!" as Toga's identity crisis takes place. Meanwhile, having Hawks look distraught at the fact that Twice's clones are back. He killed a good guy for nothing and have him constantly evade Twice clones taunting him for having killed him.

If I were in Hori's shoes I would have done that instead of having Hawks fighting AFO. AFO vs Hawks had no personal undertone. It was a fight I didn't care for other than lowkey wishing AFO would kill / actually maim Hawks the entire time.

Meanwhile, Twice Clone army vs Hawks that would have been juicy and made this arc 10x more interesting.

TLDR - Hori dropped the ball hard with Hawks character and the impact of Twice's death. I feel like this comes down to Hori writing what he wants and if the consequences of the plot point he wants to explore is something he deems uninteresting (Midnight's death) or doesn't want to explore (Twice's death, Endeavor's child abuse) - logic be damned - he just doesn't.

[stillness-in-green]

Wait wait wait if spinaraki is one of three pillars what are the other two

(Re: my tags on this post.)

Ahahaha, well, actually, what I was referring to there was my quip about betting on friendship in a Shonen Jump manga—one of the three pillars of Shonen Jump:

If you google those three terms + Shonen Jump, you can find more in-depth discussion, but basically, they're the themes that manga serialized in SJ generally aim for, not necessarily because it's a strict editorial mandate or anything, so much as because those are just viewed as the most key themes that make a Shonen Jump manga—well, a Shonen Jump manga. This sense of identity accounts for a lot of the traits of the “Shonen Jump main character” archetype, as well as the expected presence of “nakama”-type characters, and plenty of other tropes that you might think of as being synonymous with shonen manga in general.

The importance of this ethos factors into some of my frustrations with Deku, actually. While he had to put in lots and lots of hard work in the early parts of the manga, since acclimating to OFA, there’s been considerably less Effort going into his victories.  It’s part of the conflict between his relationship with his classmates and the secrecy All Might demands, too, a tension that comes to a head in the Deku vs. 1-A fight, but that doesn't really continue on to a better place, I don't think.

If you look at where the three tenets are in that fight, it’s clear from the beginning who’s going to win.  Deku might be putting in Effort, but so are the rest of the kids, and it’s really obvious where the Power of Friendship is between the kid trying fiercely to go it alone vs. nineteen kids working together for a single goal and with the value of their bonds burning in their hearts.  Effort + Friendship = Victory, see?

Even after having proven the supremacy of friendship-based teamwork, though, the characters in-universe (especially the adults) continue putting Deku on this pedestal as the character who'll solve their Shigaraki problem and the kids just kind of—let this happen.

Well, I could elaborate on that more, but EH. That's not why I nor you are here. So to refocus, one of the things that makes the League of Villains so interesting and unique as SJ villains go is how they interact with the three pillars. Villains don't, as a general rule! A key part of having protagonists that express Friendship, Effort and Victory is contrasting them against villains who express the opposite of those things. And, indeed, many villains in BNHA work in exactly that way: AFO has to work for very little, Overhaul is very much not here to make friends (though some of his minions are a different story; the trash trio are very interesting in this context), and so on.

The League, however, is different. That’s most clear in the My Villain Academia arc, with Shigaraki being emblematic of Effort, with hints of Friendship here and there, Spinner’s Friendship taking the form of devotion that powers his Efforts, and Twice being a beacon of both.  Mr. Compress’s faith and self-sacrifice (Friendship+Effort) are instrumental in the villains’ escape from Jakku.  Toga’s grief over losing Twice (Friendship) is pivotal in her endgame arc.  Dabi is pretty bad at the Friendship angle (it’s what most clearly sets him apart from the rest of the League), but he’s a monster when it comes to Effort, pushing through a lifetime of pain because giving up might as well mean dying (and dying absolutely means giving up).

Looking more closely at Spinner and Shigaraki, you can read large chunks of their character arcs through this lens.

Shigaraki starts the story as a cranky and entitled manchild, unpleasantly demanding towards the few people he’s close to; he also bails on USJ once the odds turn against him.  Having thus no Friendship to speak of and being disinclined to bother with Effort, of course he can’t obtain Victory.  His lack of determination is one of the things Deku critiques in their mall encounter; during the training camp, Kurogiri asks if he views the Vanguard Action Squad as merely pawns.  Losing AFO at Kamino deprives Shigaraki of his reset button, meaning he will need to put in more Effort to secure Victory, since there will be no one around to mitigate his defeats anymore.

In the Hassaikai arc, we see him develop an understanding of his team and begin to clarify his ideology, demonstratively opening up to Toga and Twice, and trusting in their Friendship and Effort as the basis of the plan that culminates in the highway attack.  A few months later, Gigantomachia pushes him to extremes like never before, with the place of belonging he offered Twice in particular being key in the League overcoming the MLA.

This arc of finding comrades (Friendship) and discovering the beliefs he’s willing to fight for (Effort) delivers him to a decisive victory (you get the gist) at Deika.

This arc is also why I find the possession plot so frustrating and underwhelming—Shigaraki being subjugated by All For One, his friends scattered and used, feels violently at odds with the way Shigaraki engaged with the three tenets up to this point.  Like, why did we even spend so much time on Shigaraki’s Efforts and Friendships if him spending two years and 85 chapters of the climax as a damsel thanks to AFO is all it was going to amount to?  So I’m very much hoping him taking back control will get us in a better spot going forward, even if I’m skeptical that it’ll be able to wholly undo the damage.

As to Spinner, his arc begins with him being inspired by Stain’s willingness to strive even when he’s one man against the whole world; this admiration of Effort is what leads Spinner to the League, while his sense that his Effort is being wasted is what drives his confrontation with Shigaraki in Chapter 220.  He’s struck to empathy after hearing Shigaraki speak of being empty, however, and seeing Shigaraki’s Efforts lead to Victory in Deika solidifies his loyalty (Friendship). That keen understanding of Shigaraki leads to him being able to wake Shigaraki at Jakku, avoiding a defeat if not securing a victory; his enduring loyalty then leads him into AFO’s hands.

In the last scene we’ve gotten of him thus far, all three tenets are on display: his dedication to Shigaraki drives him to power through heroic opposition and his own fragmenting mind to wake Kurogiri with a plea that’s based in his love of Shigaraki and the League; Kurogiri being woken is directly responsible for Shigaraki being returned to full power just as he also returns to his own mind.

Friendship mixed with Effort leads to Victory—that progression is what I was specifically thinking about when I said I felt pretty good about betting on Friendship in a Shonen Jump comic, and made the quippy tag about the three pillars.

That's the serious answer. See here for the funny/fannish one.

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

From My Villain Academia to the War arc is the peak moment for the League. We get:

Twice healing from his trauma, having an impressive hero-plus-ultra-like moment and dying.

Spinner realizing what he wants to do with his life, fighting a politician in the honor of his boss and losing Tomura to AFO.

Toga powering up, facing Ochako once more and losing Twice.

Dabi fighting Geten, incapacitating Hawks, revealing his real identity with the most dramatic dance followed by a fight ever and getting burned even more.

Mr. Compress identity reveal and sacrifice.

Tomura powering up so many times he ends up completely losing control of his body.