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#even just a year after they occurred
hamsternamedmarinette · 5 months
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if it helps, tvtropes seems to be on your side w/ this one
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I know it's been over 20 years so the writing team and cast has more than likely been made aware of this goof, but who dares me to ask the voice cast about it if I go see them at a con next weekend
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jojo-schmo · 8 months
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I wish I could tell the original artist that this drawing permanently changed the entire direction of my life in 2009. I want to shake their hand, look them in the eye, and admit I would not be who I am today if this drawing didn’t exist.
EDIT: Original artist is @ivynajspyder !!!!
#‘but jojo’ you ask. ‘that seems a little ridiculous’#‘don’t you think that’s a little much?’#no. NO. IT IS THE TRUTH.#little baby middle schooler jojo had just gotten squeak squad. the first kirby game she ever owned.#and she loved it even tho there’s a lot she didn’t understand#like who dedede was supposed to be or why copy abilities existed#I asked for the game because my roommate at swim camp had it and she told me the plot of the game when I looked over her shoulder to watch#(the plot she told me was completely made up btw she said kirby had to save the dimension from dark overlord and did not mention the squeak#and said stuff about meta knight being a bad guy idk I realize now she was just weaving a tale of her own haha)#SO I WAS NOT AWARE OF THE LORE. I had only played the one game and it’s the one people don’t like the plot of#but meta knight completely intrigued me#what was this blue sword wielding little kirby dude doing here??#so I’d replay his boss fight over and over again just to get that glimpse at his face#and I’d sit and wonder what it all meant. who was this mysterious swordsman??#and the boss fight was hard!!! it cost me to beat it at the time but I’d still do it to see his face#AND THEN AFTER LIKE A YEAR OF THIS it occurred to me that there was a kirby wiki online#so I found all the pictures of his face and my little fangirl-raised-by-deviantart mind ATE THIS UP.#and then I look up that one fateful google search……… the one that changed me#meta.#knight.#maskless.#and this drawing was towards the top of the results#I went feral about a fandom related topic for the very very first time#I lost my MIND. HOW can a character be so cute AND COOL??! I was a changed child.#I consumed the hoshi no kaabii anime like it was the only piece of media on earth#I drew comics about him. I made my first kirby oc ever to go on a grand adventure on him.#I filled my notebooks with kirby art to the point my mom was like ‘jossie. you REALLY need to branch out. these are just orbs.’#and now I am the kirby artist I am today. so yes. YES. this drawing did change my life.#thanks for reading. and thanks to the original artist. I tried to find them to link but nothing. so if you know pls tell me#THE END!!! and remember! your art makes a difference in people’s lives even if they don’t say it to your face!!!!
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sweetandglovelyart · 8 months
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Knightfall in Dream Land - Page 6
Meta Knight begins his long fall to Popstar’s surface and passes by some familiar faces on the way down.
#Kirby#Kirby fanart#my art#comic#Meta Knight#Dark Meta Knight#Sailor Dee#Taranza#sorry it took me so long to finish this page but it’s finally done#I hope that the title of the comic makes sense to everyone now#I called it Knightfall in Dream Land because the knight fell into Dream Land lmao#the parts of the comic set in the present are occurring around the time of Return to Dream Land#so the gang hasn’t met Taranza yet and isn’t aware of Floralia’s existence#but since Meta has a long fall to the surface I’d imagine he’d probably crash through Floralia on the way down and pass by the mirror#I tend not to give specific ages/age numbers to Kirby characters in my fanart/fan AU#the first reason for this is that different characters probably age at different rates since they’re different species#and the second reason for this is that I don’t see years between game releases equating to years passing for the characters#I mean just look at Adeleine she’s still a kid in Star Allies even though that was released almost two decades after Crystal Shards lmao#instead of giving characters specific ages I headcanon them as being in certain age ranges#so in the present Kirby Bandee and Sailor are all kids (and Bandee and Sailor are a bit older than Kirby)#I also see characters like Gooey Adeleine and Ribbon as being kids too#while characters like Taranza Susie Magolor Marx and the Mage Sisters are young adults#and characters like Meta Knight Dedede Daroach Captain Vul and Hyness are older adults#but in the parts of the comic set in the past Meta Knight and Dedede are young adults and Taranza is a kid#and Kirby and the Dees are babies#the older spiders shown here with Taranza and Sectonia are OCs of mine who are their mothers#their names are Lady Theraphoza (Taranza’s mom) and Queen Rachnia (Sectonia’s mom)#I’m giving Taranza some backstory since HAL refuses to tell us anything about him except he’s sad about Sectonia lmao#this post has too many tags but maybe I’ll make a separate post with my Spider Lore#Knightfall in Dream Land
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The Winged Servant - drabble
Content warnings: referenced whump of a minor (kinda), referenced punishment, victim blamey headspace
masterlist
taglist: @kaleidoscope-of-thoughts @toyybox @rainydaywhump
Notes: I am so sorry about how short this is, but I have just been so exhausted lately and can't seem to write longer things. If you'd like to only be tagged for longer, more official things, let me know :)
I was only about halfway through my list of chores when Prince Ryan interrupted me. “Onyx, are you going to make a cake or something tonight?”
“Of course, Your Highness,” I agreed, bowing. “May I ask what for?”
“Oh, I wasn’t-” He frowned, tilted his head at me. “I wasn’t requesting a cake. I was wondering if there was one planned already. You don’t remember what for?”
Shit. No, I didn’t remember. And I hadn’t been punished in SIX days. Which wasn’t some kind of record, obviously, but it had been nice.
Except- except of course I was going to get punished again at some point. I’d known that already. Good servants weren’t so hung up on whether or not they were getting punished. Punishment only made me better at my job, and it wouldn’t do me any good to be selfish about it.
“My apologies, Your Highness, but I don’t think I remember.”
“Huh.” The prince didn’t look like he was going to punish me. He didn’t look upset. He wasn’t telling me about any rules I’d broken. “Do you… know how old you are, Onyx?”
I blinked. “Seventeen, Your Highness.”
“… Oh. Uh, do you know, like, what month it is?”
“Ah…” No one ever talked to me about what month it was. It wasn’t relevant to my chores. But Her Majesty had been wearing less layers lately, I thought, so… spring? Summer? “May, maybe, Your Highness?”
“April. Do you really not remember when your birthday is?”
My birthday?
Of course I remembered my birthday. Everyone knew their own birthday, and the birthday of people close to them, right? Like, Jayden’s was in November. The twins’ were in January. Mine was…
My birthday. Mine.
The problem with my birthday was that good servants didn’t really have many things that belonged to them alone. A whole day to celebrate just me would get in the way of things, probably. I wouldn’t be as productive.
“You’re nineteen today,” Prince Ryan said quietly. “You’ve been here for a year and a couple months. If you’d like, you could tell Jayden, and I’m sure he’d make you some kind of treat. Sorry, um. I didn’t realize you didn’t know. I guess that makes sense, considering everything, but… huh.” He straightened his posture and put a smile back on his face. “Well. Back to your chores, then, I suppose.”
I stared blankly in his direction as he walked down the hallway.
Nineteen.
Hm.
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floralovebot · 4 months
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helia is obv meant to be androgynous and bishounen but I get why people would think he was designed to be a woman initially because his name is a woman's name actually. helia is a girls name. also, compared to avalon or other long haired characters, he's also somewhat more different.
I don't think it's too far fetched. some language groups like greek fans could have other pov. in latin american spanish his name was changed to helio for this very reason.
i know his name is feminine. that still means nothing tbh
sky is a popular girl's name in the west. does that mean he's automatically a girl? like no of course not. no one is arguing that sky is a woman just because of his name. griffin is a masculine latin name. don't see anyone questioning her. if his name is the Only proof people have that helia was meant to be a girl, that's weak when other characters also have feminine/masculine names that don't align with their canon gender.
also, you need to ask yourself, what is different about helia? like actually answer that question. what exactly makes helia different from characters like palladium, valtor, or avalon. it's not his body - helia has the same muscular body the other specialists have and he's one of the few male characters we see shirtless on screen. it can't be pacifism - he's not a pacifist and pacifism is not a feminine trait. it can't be art or poetry - neither of those things are feminine traits/hobbies. it can't be his fashion - he's just wearing a shirt and jeans. if anything his wardrobe would be considered more masculine compared to the crop tops the other specialists are wearing (even for the time). it can't be his personality - nabu is also wiser and gentler, timmy is also a simp, brandon is also caring.
so what exactly makes helia different from other long haired male characters?
nothing. that's your answer.
the only thing that makes helia So different is that other long haired male characters are often coded as white Or specifically have darker skin, so fans don't feel the need to question their masculinity (which is a Whole other discussion). helia is not coded as white. even fans who don't consciously realize it are still picking up on that coding. these white fans then feel comfortable questioning his masculinity because they've done that to men of color for decades. it's not just asian men either. white people love to question the masculinity of all men of color, regardless of race or skin color. that's how they demean them. how they separate them from white men. they uphold certain racial and gender stereotypes and then demean any man who "doesn't fit that". which in their eyes, is all men of color.
it's like this: man of color doesn't adhere to western/white/european cultural standards > white people realize, don't like, insult them, and try to make them feel like they need to adhere > white men prioritize the patriarchy and feel the need to glorify it > in order to insult men of color, they specifically call out and question their masculinity > white people around the world think this is genuinely innocent because it focuses on gender instead of race > white racists get away with it
listen, i know at first this seems like a really harmless and maybe even amusing topic. "oh helia is so pretty people think he's a girl ahahah". and for some fans it is genuinely harmless. they just think he's too pretty to be a man. and then they realize, laugh it off, and don't question it again.
unfortunately, that's not the case for a lot of other fans. it's not innocent. it's not harmless. it's white people picking up on racial coding and questioning his identity because of it. you guys don't do this to other characters. you don't do it to sky, who also has a "feminine" name. you don't do it to palladium, who is slimmer and has a gentler, nicer personality. you don't do it to saladin. or nabu. or ogron. or gantlos. or anagan. or tritannus. or nereus. or king neptune. or king teredor.
all of those names are male characters with long hair.
i know it's nice to assume that this is innocent and genuine. but unfortunately, that's not the case. this is an example of something that isn't innocent for a majority of adult, white fans. even if they're not doing it On Purpose. subconscious bias is called that for a reason.
#and i do want to clarify that i dont see an issue with kids doing this#like its specifically Adult fans i have an issue with#because they should know better by now#also like has it ever occurred to anyone that helia having a feminine name was them adding to the shojo androgynous vibe#like.#givelian from the comics.. gregory.. holly dark.. king nobody..#literally a dude's name is HOLLY dark and no one is questioning him alkdlga#please im begging you guys give it up#nothing about helia implies that he was meant to be a girl#the name excuse has always been flimsy#also when people say this argument makes no sense because helia is white because his name is greek#like do you guys think musa is an asian name#stop.. just stop.... for two decades fans have discussed this and no one has gotten closer to proving that he was meant to be a girl#and im sorry but when other characters have the exact same attributes that helia has that people Insist must mean he was#it just makes it more obvious when you never talk about them too#like griffin is a masculine name! why not question her femininity?#sky is a popular girl's name! why not question his masculinity?#you never do this to other (white) characters so why do the same qualities mean anything for helia?#also anon to be clear when i say you im using that in a general way i dont mean You specifically#answered#also i know this is long and i want to clarify that im not mad at you or anything#i dont know if any of this sounds mad but#im just soooo tired of this rumor its so dumb aljdghaljg#and when people make an innocent mistake its Fine#but after this long most people doing it are not making an innocent mistake#its on purpose#after this many years.. after so many other long haired male characters.. its not innocent unfortunately#certain (ie white) fans tend to target characters of color like aisha musa nabu etc and helia isnt an exception#even with his racial coding being somewhat ambiguous (at least more than others) people can still tell he's not white#and they treat him accordingly
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hitmeupaep · 11 months
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there’s a special place in hell for whatever CW executive had there boot on jensen and misha’s neck while supernatural was airing. like 30 years in hell MINIMUM
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transingthoseformers · 11 months
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I have some ideas for the Bad Ending last night here
Considering an idea where drift contemplates his history as a sex worker and ultimately has more positive experiences and associations with it than not, and in the end we see this is the BE and he's seriously contemplating going back into the job, after all he made a promise he wouldn't go back to mercenary work
Not because he needs the money, but because he needs something to do after Ratchet's funeral and Rodimus has more or less weaned off associating with the rest of the "rod squad" since Megatron's verdict, Drift worries about Rodimus but they'll meet again one day in a better context, perhaps in an alcohol-free club that doesn't serve intoxicating drinks but good music and all sorts of energon.
I don't think he changes his name back to Deadlock, but he might choose an entirely different and new name (WindDrift? Dancer? Wind dancer? Maybe it's an alias for the job? I like Dancer as his job name but not as his name-name)
Rodimus primarily starts going by Roddie
Whirl, Cyclonus, and Tailgate are in a pretty good relationship with two kids Lug and Anode are raising one with another on the way, with them working part time at a museum and Anode babysitting on occasion.
Maybe Swerve owns the club with an oc or two ... Chromedome via Rewind remembers Rung.
All in all a very bittersweet glimpse into the After.
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ottiliere · 2 years
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I love crawling out of the depths, opening up tumblr, and seeing your art. I love it.
it is quite interesting how social media can fall to the wayside, and people on the internet can just disappear forever if they really wanted to! I admit I struggle to keep up with "public accounts", they are uniquely stressful and I solute your hibernating tenacity. always lovely to see you resurface regardless, thank you very much for the lovely compliment...
I will say in case any of my dear followers were wondering where i've gone for the past month and a half, for weeks i've been pondering how to even broach the enormity of the topic that is: I made the mistake of thinking about my most favorite character for more than 2 minutes in one sitting. I intentionally go out of my way to avoid this and have many strategies to evade this occurring because every time I do enter a sort of hermetically sealed mental chamber where it's just me and him and his life and I begin to ignore all points of previously established social contact and also my health indefinitely. It's difficult to convey the emotional experience of this or its psychic magnitude. and it's hard to say "guys i really love this character!" because that's just words. you can't see it. the 10 years of obsessively thinking about some guy so intensely on&off cyclically until you've made 20 different worlds he's living in... how does one convey the depth of these without artistically depicting them as you see them to be...? i am trying to figure it out. currently planning a longform comic for my favorite and several smaller comics for others, but logically an individual can understand this takes a while... he and I have had multiple rendezvous over the past decade and I wish I had more "historical" art to show but for many of these years I have been a bit too physically disabled to draw, the past several weeks have been spent attempting to recreate his ideal form as he exists in my head. he is starting to come around!
I typed up three separate disquisitions last month to try and explain my feelings on him and none of them felt like the proper vessel to communicate this concept. which is likely for the best. the obvious answer is "just draw him". fine with this being the case, difficult when I have so many drawing ideas I'm now sitting on 100+ works in progress and they just keep accumulating since my brain generates these like an old laptop you leave in the corner of your room to mine bitcoin. in a way I'm content with this being a very "personal" experience thus far, shared with me and those in my inner social circle (really cannot emphasize to my readers enough how fandom can poison your constitution without self-checked moderation). however... I yearn to meet others who are as passionately involved with him as I am, because I think we could coalesce our ideas, and passion, into something beautiful...
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^dio brando
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twilightarcade · 3 months
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huge fan of married in red's lack of winning and losing and heroes n villains yknow
#wordstag#would make an intelligent post but I don't think I have it in me. Huge fan of investigrave games in general story wise#haven't played all of them (fake fan) but the ones I have played are just tied up enough to feel satisfying#yet still have room for interpretation yknow? They're self contained.#anyways back on topic. Crazy game. No mater how it ends no one is happy yknow ? I think it's a matter of basic reading comprehension#but let's entertain the high school English teachers for a moment. Would be better if the events in the game#never occurred at all. But even that raises the question: is it better to kill someone and spend the rest of your life regretting it#or spend your whole life fantasizing about killing someone? Would really be better if everyone just moved on but that's not how it goes; is#it? But in any case the game always ends in heartbreak. Every ending is after the death of the husband. Horrible world.#endings where bok-su is arrested? da-jeongs wedding is still ruined. Da-jeong is forced to look back to years ago#and consider how that one betrayal led to this. If only she kicked out bok-su while she had the chance.#regardless of the ending though that reflection is a common thread . With bok-su it's a question of does da-jeong deserve this?#in the moment the obvious question is yes. But we all saw the true end; no? Maybe there doesn't need to be mutually assured destruction#maybe. Just maybe. We don't have to destroy the life of someone who destroyed ours. Because you know what it's like; no?#to have everything taken away from you. To be reduced to a murderous criminal; unworthy of relations.#or whatever idk. I'm only 2 years old. Anyway we're gonna bake some mochi
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sirompp · 1 year
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odd characters i thought i had a crush on as a kid but much later realized was just gender envy ranked by how tasty and/or edible a meal they made would be (in no particular order)
character 1: baldi from baldis basics
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i imagine baldi would make a decent stew with homemade broth, and provide some saltine crackers with it. nothing revolutionary but its pretty good, more than edible. 6/10
2. tord from eddsworld
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i dont think this man would make anything more than instant noodles or slightly burnt toast. hes probably capable of cooking Decent or even Good food but i dont think he would. fortunately for me though i love slightly burnt toast 7/10
3. underfell sans (i couldnt find any official art so i drew this myself)
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you know i was going to say "ive never had a chimichanga so i cant rate him." but. turns out its papyrus who makes the chimichangas. not sans.
i think sans would make like. those fucking canned hotdog bits but hed put relish and mustard on it which is technically edible, but personally id rather eat rocks. 2/10
4. four from bfb
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four eats exclusively american cheese slices and dunkaroos. most would consider this an awful terrible meal but i am autistic 9/10
5. enderman from minecraft
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That's a dirt block. You know its gonna be dry as hell too because shes allergic to water. 1/10
6. the once ler from the lorax
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im pretty sure he makes food in the movie but i forgot what it was. im a fake fan i know. alphabet soup served in a thneed and im photographed 8 million times while i eat for a new promotion hes doing where thneeds can be used as bowls for food (they cant) (the sop is so full of truffula tree fluff.) (its disgusting.) (i dont even like alphabet soup) 3/10
7. shopkeeper from my tomodachi life island
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(he literally said this as i went to get a photo for this post)
he makes a MEAN omelette. i dont even like omelettes but his would be so good i might change my mind. he would decorate the plate with fruit 7/10
8. underfresh sans (same situation as fell, drawing by me again)
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store bought donuts, pringles, and a pepsi. i really hate donuts but the others are fine. im gonna be hella hyper after the pepsi though 6/10
9. imposter from among us
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whatever it is its guaranteed to be poisoned. 0/10
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unproduciblesmackdown · 4 months
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listened to the obcr Voices In My Head over confirming there's that like half step up of the "made" in "me and the voices in my head have made up our collective mind" that makes it a line that comes to mind & loops there & gets sung to myself often enough, but then was freshly appreciating what's going on instrumentally behind jeremy singing the "(then make up) my own mind" of the chorus which i'm not even sure what it is, but the effect is striking, initially i was like is there an eighth note in the vocals there vs all quarter notes? b/c like noting that jeremy's pitch/steps go up, Up, down vs the instrumentation going [same starting pitch] down, down, but that there's Something going on rhythmically so that the instruments kind of happen "behind" / not exactly On jeremy's, and then i was like is it also just that jeremy is also singing evenly in quarter notes but the notes being played instrumentally are like just slightly barely After his, though following the same rhythm, like, an eighth note behind, fuck it a demisemiquaver behind. anyways it pwns & the end of the song getting me all hype of course like argh The Energy fr
#bmc#also maybe jeremy sings like eighth note My quarter notes Own Mind the first time & all quarter notes the second time....#you'd think it'd be obvious & maybe it is. i'm able to acknowledge this isn't; wait for it; my forte#accurate enough that after years of saying ''no i can't read music'' it occurred to me maybe depending i should've been saying yes?#like Yes i'd been forced to practice piano half hour every weekday for years. pretty beloathed & just wasn't really coming to me anyways.#Yes i understand what just about anything making up this Musical Notation indicates if that's what is meant#no i can't Read it & be like ah i can form the song in my head via this. but is that what's being asked in all contexts? maybe not#sort of a helpful guide for when i quickly memorize the tenor part of a song i probably already know / will also quickly learn#so yeah that In Between. same as ''yes i practiced piano for several years no i can't accompany you or even easily learn a song''#no relistened i believe jeremy sings it evenly Quarter Note Quarter Note Quarter Note My Own Mind both times#which sounds great. like i don't know if you made it eighth note & then a. quarter plus an eighth note. is there really no better term?#dotted quarter note? smh. anyway & then had That also go up a step lmao like you could do that it'd be fine#but the half step up in Made Up Our Collective Mind....effervescent. whereas the like Steady Emphasis of the chorus....#both fitting & feels like part of the Effect i'm getting. the percussion there even just getting to go Beat Beat Beat. Yes#god thinking of the hello kitty shoes. sweeping up will roland spinning him around for even simply that Thanks Understander
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giftedpoison · 4 months
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thinking about how the other day I felt happiness for the first time in a long time (like happiness about where I am at in life and joy for my future plans. Like I was working 8-4:30 and I was thinking about how I was going to do a few ubereats runs until 6ish after and then come home and get to write and crack open my kung fu binder again that I've been working with to prove to myself I'm ready to go back)
usually I just feel content at like a 5 sometimes if I go to a concert or whatever it can get up to 6,7,8. but that's it
and I have that persistent depression disorder. that i never remember how to spell.
So you can imagine my surprise when i genuinely just felt happy and at peace? And i had mania by fob album stuck in my head. life was good.
I then got sucker punched by my physical health symptoms that were really bad and almost collapsed and could not hold myself up so I was leaning on a cart not moving when it hit 4:30. And did not do anything that I planned to after work because of it.
BUT
the key is i felt happiness for the first time in forever.
#and the thing is I think it was because I finally decided it might be time for me to go back to kung fu after taking a year and a half off#because I quit because I couldn't get myself to go to lessons and then I also couldn't get myself to practice outside of class#PLUS at the time I had just started medication for my panic attacks had recently developed a tic disorder#and was working at a job that was slowly killing me#and I was really just trying to figure my shit out#(the last day I was really able to meaningfully attend was for my belt test that I passed but I had a massive panic midway through because#I had also started zoloft that day and it didn't occur to me taking a kung fu test designed to mimic a fight and breed endurance in a fight#aka get my heartrate up would be a bad idea with starting zoloft designed to slow my heart rate)#but the thing about kung fu is it was always something that brought so much joy and happiness#if I was struggling to get there I'd come home and be so energized and excited and happy#and I think I'm finally in a place where I can have it back? (idk juries still out on the health issues)#because I spent all of 2023 working on myself and my mental health and I quit my old job this past september#and I have a new job#plus a direction in life??? like I'm stage managering for some bands at a fest#and then later stage managering for a renn faire#while I'm working part time at target#and finally retail isn't my main gig (i used to be full time) but the side gig to take me where I want to go#And like recently I ran into someone from kung fu while I was working and they were so excited to see me#and I want to go back so bad because it's nice to know that she and a couple other people (she mentioned I was brought up recently) still#remember me and wonder where I went even a year and a half later
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smile-files · 4 months
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someday i'll have to just come to terms with the fact that my brain deals with social stuff super weirdly and that the way i form relationships is fundamentally different from how everyone else does (and that this is all probably okay). today is not that day though
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micamicster · 2 years
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I find the sibling dynamics in the untamed genuinely fascinating because like jiang cheng has all the flaws of a youngest sibling but he ALSO has to fulfill the roles and responsibilities of an oldest sibling (his family’s heir and leader of his clan) which results in a man who sucks so bad and fails so much 🥰 i love him
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raiiny-bay · 7 months
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writing adult kel & co for the first time in my life
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gideonisms · 2 years
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I can't read the aj book reviews on goodreads though because I feel like people collectively did not get that the gender thing was A) in service to her other themes not the entire point of the book B) not a girlboss everyone's a woman now thing either
#maybe the idea started like oh what if i just used she pronouns for everyone but the writing is more nuanced than that#it's the empire taking over different cultures it's not like universally a good thing#it's what many of the characters grew up with so it doesn't occur to them that they could be a different gender#it's not a universally bad thing either it's not like the book goes 'oh the empire is wrong not to have two specific genders'#it's just like. in the same way this empire enforces gender and restricts bodily autonomy through constant surveillance#your empire does the same to you. it's just like asking you to question things#but some characters have no problem with their given pronouns. it's all socially constructed that's the point#breq was probably the first time i was really envious of someone's gender though#there's no like. status significance to her pronouns in her culture. she doesn't wear different styles based on it#then you see her having to translate herself to other people's expectations when she's outside of the empire#and she's constantly botching it even after 20 years#never related to someone's experience with gender more#it's like i don't really do that. lol. but you're welcome to interpret me however. it is simply none of my business#i'll be whatever is most convenient when i'm trying to rent a place to stay. assigned woman at rental application#i never agreed to this system it's just a weird cultural quirk that makes my life slightly worse but otherwise isn't important to me
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