#even though I think the actual more relevant parallel is

[bonediggercharleston]

That is nitpicking a tangent when the actual point was that people are aware of how easy it is for them to cheat so they are statistically more likely to do it. Address that, not the word "advertised" which is just accurately describing how people are being made aware of AI. If you want to say I lost you at the mention of advertising and public awareness, I do not think you are actually trying to follow. Reminder that you started with: "This is what people actually do." Not personal choice but a declarative statement of "this is how students do research with chatGPT". When I listen to teachers they complain about phony essays being handed in.

That was a tangent, checking results is not relevant to this conversation, which is about practicing skills which chatGPT atrophies by doing it for you. You are using it as a search engine but have not demonstrated any superior quality of chatGPT as a search engine, except it gets things wrong pretty often.

Actually OpenAI has started it's largest funding round ever, which means they are asking for more money. Their methods are hyperscaling, which is an increase in capability but the gains are disproportionate to cost. Their new models are being pushed back and not seen to be as big a jump as from 3.5 to 4. They are more in debt than ever. I am not aware of the cost per token going down or the subscription prices going down. Even "cheap" versions like deepseek which are cheaper to train have higher consumption in return. Any claims of it getting cheaper while the market leader got more expensive (the longer GPT5 takes to be released the more expensive it will be) and more addled with debt are dubious. This is magically hoping the tech will beome something it is not. It is a counterfactual and you cannot tell me when it will get profitable because nobody knows if LLMs are even the future of AI. This was a tangent though, the discussion was about ChatGPT atrophying your mental skills.

absolutely negligable, most PCs run all day and the AI compute centers consume orders of magnitude of energy more than most countries. The energy consumption is one of the externalities that make LLMs are really harmful technology, but again, the point here is that ChatGPT will make you a worse thinker if you use it to brainstorm, even in your very personal idealized, individual way of doing things which ignore larger societal scopes that OP was talking about.

It is not in anybody's favor, it is a caution against using easy parallels like you are doing, which are historical anecdotes. the research on the effect on people is clear: use your mental faculties less, and they get worse.

I am a millennial too and uh no, there was no backlash, those things got almost universally adopted. Most people talked about how great they were and apple sold millions of them, immediately making profit. And again, irrelevant anecdote with no connection to AI. You are pretending that because a new technology had a breakthrough, this next one will and that is just a complete fallacy. The commonality is that you think it is useful, which is just an opinion.

Shifting goalposts by claiming the 2 year old data is too old instead of finding data to contradict it. Did churn rate change on git repositories? Was it because AIs got better or because the amount of people using copilot changed? You would not know because you assume the data exists to prove your point, but you did not provide it to prove it.

An economic bubble is not the same thing as an apocalypse and AI is in a bubble now. This is another instance of strawmanning. WE have had several economic bubbles pop in our lifetimes. Also hella way to answer a hypothetical: "It wouldn't happen".

"It is a personal choice to let your brain atrophy." The state of AI bros, ladies and gentlemen. Ignorance is freedom. That is fascist thought. Just straight up. No critical thinking, just "well if they wanna be bad at critical thinking let them". I have to share a world with them. People can not know things, that is normal, but willful ignorance is malicious. You have made an argument in favour of cognitive impairment of human beings and that is the stupidest things I ever heard. There is very little personal choice in this because you deciding to be stupid in a society inflicts your choice upon society. If it affects others it is not personal. Sure you can use chatGPT to think for you but the problem is that GPTs are math-illiterate calculators that are worse at thinking like humans and real calculators are just really good at solving math.

Okay, I say AI should not replace any other tool for writing cause it sucks. Because people are smarter without it. Also all the other tangentially mentioned reason.

"Abstaining from AI will make me look like a douche". That conclusion is non-sense. As for the rest, you clearly used ChatGPT for research, not your opensource project. clearly one works better. and that's the problem: everybody uses it for free, nobody wants to pay for it. that's why they lose money. that's why the bubble will pop. cause if you have to pay for it you could just google shit again.

this one is easy: plato was wrong because writing records works differently from memorization and writing shit down actually helps memorization. chatGPT does not help memorization, it does not help you develop cognitive abilities. it does the work that would let you develop your thinking skills.

a final strawman. i said people do work only if they like to or if they need to. which is why people will use short cuts for work they don't like. and the easier the shortcuts, the more people will use them. which is the original point you got wrong. that ties a nice bow on it, don't it?

"what did students do before chatgpt?" well one time i forgot i had a history essay due at my 10am class the morning of so over the course of my 30 minute bus ride to school i awkwardly used by backpack as a desk, sped wrote the essay, and got an A on it.

six months later i re-read the essay prior to the final exam, went 'ohhhh yeah i remember this', got a question on that topic, and aced it.

point being that actually doing the work is how you learn the material and internalize it. ChatGPT can give you a short cut but it won't build you the the muscles.

[wavesoutbeingtossed]

Can we always be this close forever and ever / he saw forever so he smashed it up

[pico-farad]

I finished season 1 of Vrains and it was cool but I thought it needed about 2 billion more secret identity shenanigans

More Secret Identities AU

extended thoughts below

So I went into a deep dive in my last two posts (1, 2) about all the problems I had with Vrains, and you'd think I didn't enjoy it, but in fact as I was watching, there was a separate, parallel version of Vrains that was playing in my head, a Yugioh I think we were robbed of and which fixes every problem I had with the first season, and that is Secret Identities AU.

Yusaku needs FRIENDS

This is YUGIOH.

This dynamic is everything I wanted from Vrains. Yusaku developing unexpected fondness for these bozos who think he needs a defense squad. I want Miraculous Ladybug levels of secret identity shenanigans. I want Yusaku slapping his duel disk every time Ai tries to blow their cover.

This AU sprung forth from the scene in the duel club where he shows Naoki his decoy deck. Having Yusaku passing as a bad duelist is 1) so funny, but 2) Yusaku needing to maintain his low profile is a useful contrivance for other characters to get more duels, and 3) I think it would be a really fun one-off episode where Yusaku has to duel using his bad deck. When he wins, Naoki is so proud he cries.

Having Yusaku actually have to interact with the other characters in the real world opens up Greek play levels of dramatic irony. The crux of a secret identity story is that every single interaction builds up anticipation, because you the viewer know that the other party is being deceived, and that the tension will snap when the secret is revealed.

I have zero anticipation about Playmaker's identity being revealed, because Aoi would be like "oh.... I guess he goes to my school" and Go would be like "have I seen that guy before?" But SIAU Playmaker? My guy is making friends just so he can betray them. Insane.

Go needs A ROLE IN THE STORY.

I said in my first post that Go isn't a rival or a best friend character. SIAU fixes this by making him both simultaneously.

Having him be the ace of the duel club is a natural replacement for his whole hero of the orphans schtick, while placing him directly the circle of relevance with the other characters. Instead of being disgruntled that the orphans suddenly like Playmaker more than him, he's disgruntled that Naoki and the duel club mooks are fawning over Playmaker -- which is actually just Naoki's character anyway.

I would kill for a big dramatic moment where Go learns that Playmaker and Yusaku are the same person, and even though Go feels betrayed that Yusaku has been deceiving him, he stands by Yusaku anyway because they're friends.

With a secret identity story, every conversation is working on multiple levels because each character is working with asymmetric information. You get these fascinating, layered scenes of two characters talking past each other because they cannot give up their secret.

Which would go especially hard with Go and Yusaku, because Go has legitimate criticisms of Playmaker in canon and Yusaku has legitimate reasoning behind the things he does, and as Go Onizuka and Playmaker they could never come to an understanding on them, but as Go and Yusaku, two friends in duel club, that door becomes open to them.

Aoi needs WRITING THAT ISN'T A TRAINWRECK

I made a whole post on this. Basically every problem would be solved if Akira doesn't know that she's Blue Angel. There's no reason for her to lose grotesquely against Yusaku, or have her basic autonomy called into question constantly. 

Having her actively deceive her brother is delicious. Like I said in my last post, it's so obvious how Akira's overprotectiveness has taken its toll on Aoi, and pushed her into developing this other persona, Blue Angel. I want this absolutely dysfunctional sibling relationship so badly. The Blue Angel vs. Zaizen duel would make me lose my mind.

And a secret identities setting works so well with the potential themes of VRAINS as a stand-in for the internet and Blue Angel as an idol. Give me that Perfect Blue Satoshi Kon good stuff. Give me those themes about identity, and the different lives we live, outward and inward, online and offline.

This also helps Akira's character, because I think he would be much more interesting and relevantly positioned in the story if he stayed a SOL Technologies baddie. SOL Technologies has very little presence in season 1 despite being critical to the story. After Zaizen is replaced by an irrelevant clown, they don't do anything but send out mook AIs to get destroyed. By having a three-way standoff between Yusaku's squad, the Knights of Hanoi, and SOL Technologies, both Hanoi and SOL Technologies become more compelling. They've both got all the reason in the world to want to take down the other. Zaizen vs. Revolver or Spectre? That's good shit.

And don't get me started on how I would turn Revolver into a Secret Identities character.

[oceanwithouthermoon]

okok let me finally do my analysis on kusuke and makoto parallels like ive talked about a thousand times (obvious warning that im gonna talk about incest, and also that im gonna be talking about a gag manga in a serious light so if that upsets you just go away ✌️)... yippee, perverted older brothers with unhealthy dynamics with their powerful younger siblings analysis!!

the most obvious parallel is in their interactions with the others sibling. they literally have the same exact meeting, they both go from being fake nice to "my sibling is special and youre not worthy of them"

not included in pictures but also note that kusuo got rid of makoto by calling on kokomi and kokomi got rid of kusuke by calling on her fans

"the second hes distracted, LETS GO"

"we're the only ones who can match up to each other"

kusukes idea of kusuo being inhuman also influences the way this is treated i think- he tells kokomi that marrying a beautiful man will suit her best and that kusuo is above that kind of thing (aka actual romantic and aesthetic attraction), and it seems that being the only ones who can measure up to each other is probably the closest, in his eyes, that kusuo can get to love (confirmed in my opinion by the marriage/engagement symbolism a few pictures down⬇️). thats why he thinks theyre the only ones worthy of each other even if he doesnt see kusuo in the exact same way as makoto sees kokomi. if that makes any sense :p these are obviously already parallel on surface level, but id say theyre even more similar if you look deeply into it

"i know everything youre thinking" and "everyone else looks like monkeys to me"

associating their sibling with heaven/god

a certain fixation on their sibling's body... top two are specifically them trying to see their sibling naked without consent

? not sure how to describe this. implications of engagement/marriage? this use of an explicitly romantic symbol actually confuses me in kusukes case but thats not really relevant here...

theyre the reason their sibling cant relax or be themself even at home... also note that kusuo specifically says that kusuos masochism (which i guess in some contexts masochism can be non-sexual but in this situation, since kusuke is canonically a pervert and there are several implications and allusions to sexual pleasure, it obviously means he gets SEXUAL pleasure from pain/humiliation) is the main reason he doesnt like him. likewise, kokomi is bothered by makotos overprotective and overbearing nature, though unfortunately she doesnt seem to be aware of his sister complex and thinks hes just being an annoying big brother.

not necessarily something that can be captured in a picture but theres also the fact that they both have pretty perfect lives but are still obsessed with their sibling and only their sibling, its all they really care about and their entire lives depend on them.

makoto is extremely attractive, charming when hes trying to be, and is a famous actor... he clearly gets girls. but he doesnt want any of them because hes stuck in his obsession with kokomi, shes the only girl he wants and its ruined his perception of other girls. he believes hes the only one that can be right for kokomi and touch her, and that likewise kokomi is the only girl he can be with. her presence dictates his life, he skips work just to follow her around and prevent her from getting involved with other guys. we only see maybe a few sentences from him where he isnt talking about kokomi, even when hes on tv.

kusuke is an attractive and charming genius, easily pulls girls, cambridge graduate, and is the favorite child in his family. but none of that matters, it only sets him apart from other humans and gives him a skewed perspective of anyone who isnt kusuo. he believes kusuo is the only person he can get that sadomasochistic pleasure from, and kusuo is the reason he developed it in the first place and he specifically seeks him out and coerces him into it. he really only cares about his family, theyre the only people in the world that are worth anything in his eyes, and his only interactions with anyone else have been using them as tools to get to kusuo. his life goal is (or was, before the end of cat tank arc) defeating kusuo. he has cameras in his familys house that hes presumably constantly watching, implied by him being ALREADY watching before his parents even called him about kusuos limiter.

[talon-dragonbeast]

Anglocentrism in alterhuman communities: ramblings of a Spanish-speaking dragon and a cat

[original in spanish here, though i have no doubt that this version will be disseminated more widely] • [original en español aquí, aunque tengo la certeza de que esta versión se difundirá más ampliamente]

this post was originally written as part of The Sol System's Alterhuman Writing Challenge. written by @talon-dragonbeast, with the help of my sibling @watcherwingedcat. we hope you like it!

word count: 2422

This writing, which is more of a rant with myself than a proper essay, is one I've been meaning to write for a long time; ever since I first joined an online community, to be more precise. Anglocentrism, according to Wikipedia (and yes, the irony of the article not being available in Spanish is not lost to me), is "the practice of viewing the world primarily through the lens of English or Anglo-American culture, language, and values, often marginalizing or disparaging non-English-speaking or non-Anglo perspectives."

If you are monolingual and your native language is English, chances are you have never stopped to think about the advantage this gives you over those of us who are not so fortunate as to be born with the lingua franca on our lips. Yes, you may have had to study some Spanish in school, but let's be honest, very few people remember what they learn in elementary school. As an English speaker, the whole world is built for you, and it's the rest of us who have to fit your mold. Culture, scientific articles, movies, books, video games, the internet, online communities, technical language, educational videos: even in the most international spaces, everything revolves around English. Which brings me to the subject of this writing: The Alterhuman community.

My name (as I am known on the internet, at least) is Talon. I've been a member of the alterhuman community, and more specifically, the otherkin community, for a little over a year now. Otherkin (a word that comes from other, in Spanish otros; and kin, shortened form of kind, in Spanish tipo) are people who identify as nonhuman in some way. For example, I identify as a dragon (among other things), and that's what I am, even if I look human on the outside and am perceived as such. There are many reasons why someone might believe they are not human, but I'm not here to discuss that, so let's get back to the topic at hand.

Since I've been in this community, I haven't written a single post in Spanish. And not for lack of desire, nor because I am intimidated to share something as personal as my mother tongue. No, the reason is simple: The community does not exist in any language other than English. By this I don't mean that there are no non-humans outside of England or the United States, because of course there are (even if they are on other platforms like TikTok or Instagram), and I'll talk about those later. But simply put, the reason you don't see many alterhuman communities in other languages is because all the resources, the introductions, the chronologies of the (English) alterhuman community, the definitions of the terms, the terms themselves, everything is in English.

I have always been bilingual. Well, trilingual actually, although my third language is not too relevant in my day to day life and I only use it in classes or when someone starts a conversation in the language. It's hard to explain how your brain works when you speak multiple languages fluently, but basically it's like running two parallel systems at the same time, but with thoughts. I don't usually think with words, but when I do it usually happens that some of my thoughts are in Spanish, and others in English, roughly in a 50/50 ratio. Or it can also happen that I start the thought in one language, but finish it in another. Or I may try to use a specific word in English that does not have an exact translation into Spanish, so that when translated literally the sentence does not make sense. Basically, everything I write or say out loud I have to run it through several filters first, one to remove the words from the other language, one to find the words to replace them with, and one to make the sentence make sense. Sounds exhausting, doesn't it? It is. Now imagine if in order to express yourself as you really are, in order to participate in a community with beings who understand and accept you like no other, you had to basically suppress half of who you are, all the time.

The problem is not only not being able to use my native language to express myself. As I have demonstrated in the last year and a half that I have been in this community, I am fluent enough in English not only to be understood when I speak, but also to express such complicated concepts as the self, human nature, the psychology of being, and all that comes with existing as nonhuman. The real problem comes when I try to express relatively common alterhuman concepts in my native language. I'm not just talking about labels like otherkin or therianthrope, which can be adapted to Spanish with relative ease. It's the little things, the simplest things.

For example, the term shift. The word itself is already difficult to translate; during my searches, I found a glossary of terms on the Otherkin Hispano website in which they call them "desplazamientos", which... is an accurate translation, I guess, but impossible to use comfortably in everyday life. There are also terms whose definitions use expressions that simply cannot be translated into other languages. For example, otherkin and otherhearted. In English, the difference between these two terms is that otherkin means "[to] identify as" while otherhearted is "[to] identify with". But this is a purely English expression. In other languages, the distinction does not exist, or it makes no sense to use it; therefore, these terms are totally inaccessible to any international user. Or compound words like "catkin", which are difficult to express in other languages. According to Otherkin Hispano, in Spanish it would be said as is without translation, Soy catkin. But that... is not grammatically correct, since it would be mixing two languages in the same sentence. The most appropriate would be to say Soy gatokin, which sounds wrong and doesn't make sense anyway, because kin is still an English word. Or "hearttype", which in Spanish could be roughly translated as "tipo del corazón" (kind of [the] heart). When saying that you have a specific hearttype, for example "corvidhearted", one way of expressing it could be a simple Soy corvidhearted, which carries the same problems as catkin. Or you could, as Wikipedia advises, say Soy corazón de córvido ("I am heart of corvid"). I don't dislike it, to be honest, but some might find it too metaphorical or poetic.

Finally, and before reaching the conclusion, I want to dedicate a few paragraphs to talk about the alterhuman community that exists in other languages. I mentioned before these communities; that although they do exist, they are very scattered through platforms such as TikTok or Instagram, with which I am not so familiar. But since I can't talk about Anglocentrism without at least talking about the Spanish-speaking alterhuman community, I asked my sibling Watcher @watcherwingedcat what it thought about the topic. This is what they wrote:

Hi guys, I'm Watcher, and I'm here to talk a bit about the Spanish-speaking therian community, which I think is the pristine example of the hate we receive both from people outside the community and from those inside, both Spanish and South American. While this post focused more on the language barriers, I want to focus on the real consequences of this barrier, how it divides us in the way we interact with each other: The social part of this whole thing (as I already said some other time or another and some of my followers know, I am studying Social Education, so from my point of view the social part is very relevant for everything we do). As my sister already said (hi Talon!), the English community is the majority in alterhuman spaces, but, what is the Spanish-speaking community really like?

Not very large, is the answer. The term itself is not very widespread, and the community is quite small. However, after a while of searching, I found it in a little corner of the internet. When I found a community in my own language, I was excited, but my curiosity and joy were soon extinguished... When I saw the reactions to their videos and posts on tiktok mainly. They were packed with hate messages. Packed. If you think hate in the English community is bad, you are not prepared for the hate received in other communities, especially the Spanish one. This is more a matter of culture, a little bit also due to the closed mindedness in countries like Spain, Argentina, or Colombia.

In general, the non-humans of the Spanish-speaking community mostly post about quadrobics and masks. At least, I haven't seen much beyond that, and the community is mostly in tiktok. And the reception of their expression of way of being? Disgusting. To give an example of how bad the hate is, in one of the videos I found (I think it was a therian making a mask or something), humans and non-humans were insulting the therian posting the video, discussions about how we are crazy and sick in the head and should be in mental institutions... It was horrible. The worst were the death threats, even, wishing the therian to die, or hang themselves, or worse (I've even seen rape threats). Comments that said things like, "If my sister told me she was a dog I would take her clothes off and force her to sleep outside and eat animal food, if she wants to be a dog I will treat her like one." Threats of abuse, both physical and sexual... Absolutely disgusting. And the worst thing is that the tiktok platform did not remove these hate accounts, the copy and paste messages of insults, the threats....

I am proud of the Hispanic community for being so open about their identity, don't get me wrong, but there are times when it is safer to just not share that part of who we are with others, especially if you are a minor and vulnerable. That's another issue that concerns me, as I've seen people coming out to parents, siblings, friends, and them just belittling them. That, coupled with misinformation, is a recipe for disaster.

I couldn't help but notice the deep root of misinformation in the non-human community itself. They confuse definitions, the different terms, which leads them to spread even more misinformation. This I don't think is entirely their fault, or that they are so young for the most part, as I have not seen Hispanic therians over the age of 18. I think this is largely due (as Talon already mentioned) to the language difference, and the lack of translation of certain terms. In general, when talking to friends with whom I am open about my non-humanity, I use English terms. It is a little weird to use those words in English while speaking in Spanish, but I am bilingual and for now there is no solution to that. I think the Spanish community would benefit from spreading correct information, and having a platform to express themselves with their own, like tumblr is for the English community. Something my sister expands on in dreir post. As for me here I finish my little comment, I'll leave you with Talon now. Watcher out.

As a conclusion, I would like to talk about the consequences that Anglocentrism might have on non-English speaking alterhumans, and then propose some ideas on how we might begin to address (or at least mitigate) it as a community.

First of all it is the obvious; the vast majority of non-English speaking alterhumans simply never realize that they are alterhumans in the first place, on account of the language barrier. All of the resources for beings who are questioning their humanity or lack thereof are in English, so they are not accessible to people who don't understand the language; therefore, a non-English speaker would have a much harder time accessing them. Another consequence is not being able to express your alterhumanity fully, both internally and externally. Remember when I mentioned that my thoughts are evenly distributed between English and Spanish, always keeping a 50/50 ratio? Well, recently, I have noticed that when reflecting on my identity as a dragon, all my thoughts are automatically generated in English. I find this deeply shocking, as I feel that a fundamental part of my identity is being eroded. It is devastating to feel that you can only express half of who you are, suppressing what could otherwise be a complex and multifaceted identity. Not being able to express myself in my other language limits my ability to explore that part of myself.

Anglocentrism is a cycle that never ends; since all the resources are in English, no members in other languages can join, and since there are no members in other languages, all the resources that are created are in English. And while I wish I could say that I have a solution to end this Anglocentrism once and for all, unfortunately, I do not. I am only one person (dragon), and this is a problem that I alone cannot solve. True, there have been some commendable attempts by the international community (translations of writings, alterhuman blogs in languages other than English, the Eurokin server on Discord are some examples); however, these initiatives often don't often get very far because of the very nature of the community. As I have already said, most of the alterhumans are North American or English, therefore any attempt to globalize the community would be restricted by the fact that there are not many members who would be interested in this in the first place. So what can we do to change this? The answer lies in you, reader. If you have a second language, encourage yourself to create writings in it from time to time. If you come from a culture other than the mainstream, talk about how that affects your identity. If you have traditions specific to your country that you believe are alterhuman in nature, share them. And if you are part of the English-speaking majority, I invite you to contribute in a positive way through simple actions, such as listening to us when we express ourselves in other languages, recognizing that we do not all share the same culture, and keeping an open mind when discussing topics that may be unfamiliar to you. Our strength as a community lies in the diversity of our members; let's embrace it.

[dungeon-master-mike]

Mike Possibly isn't Biologically Related to the Wheelers — [deep analysis]

(Part 2)

This ties in with my Alien Mike theory. But I wanted to write this to better explain why I think Mike may not even be related to them, just generally without touching on the supernatural aspect of it. (well, i do but only a little because of his superman parallels lol)

Appearance

This one is the quickest piece of evidence, although it isn’t strong enough to stand on its own. Mike’s hair is very dark brown, appearing almost black. He has dark brown eyes and freckles. Nancy and Holly both have lighter hair tones, matching Karen and Ted. The Wheelers being related to the Creels is a popular theory. While I think Nancy and Holly do look like they could be related to them, it still does not explain Mike’s features. The Creels all have blonde hair and blue eyes with no freckles in sight.

However, while Mike does look vastly different, the main physical feature Mike does have in common with Nancy and Karen is his cheekbones. I still don’t consider that enough though.

ST does a great job casting their families. I don't understand why a cast a family that all look similar except for one. Even if you consider the Creelers, there's still no one that strikes any resemblance to Mike specifically besides cheekbones.

Holly's new actress shares resemblance to Nancy. They have the same button nose and eye color.

There are No Baby Photos of Mike

I go over any sort of photos I spot at the Wheelers in this post. Mike is not spotted in any. It's primarily Holly and Nancy. This is probably my biggest and most explicitly there kind-of piece of evidence. You have several of photos of them in these big frames all set up and not one - just one - is of Mike? Something is very wrong here.

During S5 filming, they posted a picture of Mike's likely only picture sitting somewhere by itself, away from any other family photos. Underneath the photo is two vinyl records of children stories that were both released in January of 1971 - Mike's birth year. Could this be hinting at scenes of Mike as a baby next season? Why would seeing him that young be relevant?

Side thing: It's interesting that while Mike was the first main character introduced, we actually know so little about him when he was younger. We know things about Will and El, but the only thing we know about Mike is that he felt scared and alone on his first day of school. Perhaps this is intentional.

Mike is Treated Differently -- For Some Unknown Reason

Now before I get into this section, I wanna say this: I am NOT a Karen anti. I think it is important to understand the kind of situation she is in with her marriage, while also recognizing how she treats Mike in comparison to Nancy. I'm gonna be mentioning Karen far more, and that is because she at the very least is doing something, even if it isn't the best. Ted does nothing at all, period. So there isn't much to say about him. He needs to step up as both a father and husband.

In S1, we immediately learn how dismissive Karen is of Mike's interests and how dismissive Ted is of anything happening with the family in general. When he mentions how the campaign took 2 weeks to plan, Karen rolls her eyes dramatically. When he looks for an answer from Ted, he simply leaves it for his mom to answer, careless.

In the next episode, Karen approaches Mike to talk about Will's disappearance. This is a sweet scene. But later you catch onto how she approaches Nancy. There is a clear difference in how Karen communicates her support. "You can talk to me" vs "I want you to feel like you can talk to me." There is a subtle but huge difference between the two.

I'm not sure how to put it, but when Karen talks to Mike, it's almost like there's some sort of barrier that she isn't comfortable crossing. There's emotional connection missing. To me, their "talks" feel more like a counselor talking with a student rather than a mom talking with their child. "You can come to me if you'd like, I'm here for you. But I won't intervene myself. It's your job to come to me. I can't do that."

When Will's body is found, Ted and Karen are sat in their living room watching the news. Ted proposes they go down to Mike's basement and talk to him about this. Karen instead insists they give him time, believing he'll come to them instead eventually. This scene occurs exactly after Joyce hesitates to talk to Jonathan, who is sobbing in his room, and ultimately chooses not to, leaving it for him to handle alone.

The next day, Karen lets Mike stay home due to what had happened the previous night. She makes sure Mike will be alright on her own. She asks if he'd like to tag along and that she'd let him rent an R-rated movie, while she gives someone else the time and day to talk about everything going on. I ain't gonna lie, if I hadn't watched any of the show prior to this scene, I wouldn't even think his friend died because of how she's approaching this situation. As I said above, she weirdly sounds more like a counselor than a mom, like there's an invisible line she feels she can't cross.

Throughout S1, we see Nancy make consistent effort to get to Nancy, to understand her. She wants and seeks to make sure Nancy knows she's on her side. She fights with her for an answer and persists. She gets involved. Because of this persistence, Nancy does inevitably open up to her, she trusts her. Karen has told Mike once that she's there and that she doesn't have to hide anything... But we have yet to actually see him go to her to have a talk. Going for a hug at the end of the season after everything's already blown over isn't going to her to talk. We have yet to see the payoff of that scene in S1.

We go into S2. Mike is facing grief and showing signs of PTSD. Owens talks with Joyce about symptoms of PTSD and how it will get worse before it gets better, to just wait it out and pretend it's not there. However, Joyce refuses. She knows it's something more than this. She knows her son. She knows what happened last year. And guess what? The next scene is literally Ted and Karen shaming Mike for his misbehavior that matches up exactly with the symptoms Owens described right before. They then punish him and tell him to donate two boxes worth of his toys. When Mike refuses to do this due to his toys having way too much emotional value, they mock him for it. Mike eventually complies and goes down stairs in basement to do what they said and grieve over El again.

This is never resolved. Mike finally ends up releasing his pent up emotions but to Hopper in the end of the season, a character that is clearly meant to serve as a father figure to him. There is no hug with his mom like there is in S1 or S3 and S4. And still notice - Mike actually uses his words and expresses himself to Hopper, unlike he does with his parents. He cusses this police chief out and punches him, something his parents would've very well scolded him for. But Hopper saw through that and saw a hurt kid.

Nancy and Karen have a heart-to-heart in S3 that is very sweet and very genuine. Later in the scene, there is a joke that implies one of the Wheeler kids isn't biologically theirs.

In the end of S4 before the California group all finally reunite with the Hawkins group, Karen insists Nancy holds onto her stuffed animal because of its emotional value. Interesting. But when it's your twelve year old son, it's unacceptable. Nancy still decides to donate it. "No, he'll be more loved in another home." Moments later, the California group arrives and Karen runs to hug Mike. She tells him, "you are staying right here." Interesting choices of dialogue being made here hmmm.

Now all this treatment in of itself doesn't necessarily indicate he is adopted. What leads me to believe he is adopted is the lack of reasoning for this treatment. Why? What is it that makes Karen and Ted unable to cross that barrier that they set up? Why is it set up in the first place and only for him?

You understand why there's a gap between Joyce and Jonathan. Jonathan was put in the position as the father for the sake of their survival. He wasn't able to be son. There's a distinct reason why Jonathan is treated differently than Will by Joyce. Will was treated differently by his father because Will is visibly queer. Lonnie wanted to change that part of him. He wanted to make him a "real man." But when you look at the Wheelers and Mike, what reason is there? We see he gets different treatment when it comes to emotional support, but why? That's just not something that's ever been clear.

I think S5 is gonna share with us that reason "why." There is an issue with Mike and his family, his parents especially, that needs to be resolved next season. You cannot resolve conflict in a story if you don't provide the reason it begun in the first place!!

Mike is Isolated From Them

There's a weird separation the show depicts between Mike and his family. Visually, we're often shown him set apart from them. He seemingly doesn't fit in with them. He's the odd one out in dinner table scenes. His picture is now away from the others in S5.

When Mike explains what a friend is to El, he says they're someone you tell things to - Things parents don't know. He hides things from them and doesn't see a reason to tell them things.

Mike offers El his entire bedroom all to herself, telling her that he's always in his basement anyway. In words I cannot put together... That just feels so isolating. There's a sense of separation. El, Holly, Nancy, Ted and Karen would all be on the same floor... While Mike is in his basement away from everyone else.

Irl, why not, right? If a kid is happier sleeping in the basement, that's fine. But, this isn't irl. This is a story constructed a specific way to say something about a character. His basement is very crucial to him, a safe-space. We see him cope with the hardest of emotions here alone and by himself. We know no one's going down there to check on him. This is saying a lot about him and especially his place in the family.

As stated in the other previous section, they posted Mike's photo by itself away from the family photos, separating him from his family.

Mike and Loneliness

This section doesn't necessarily equal he must be adopted. However, if it is true he is adopted, it can give more reasoning for the deep sense of loneliness he experiences.

Despite having several friends, Mike is depicted as lonely and outcasted within society and his family.

In a ST comic, Mike tells us that before DND, he used to feel scared everywhere including school and his home. Finn also describes Mike as a "natural outsider."

For his monologue to Will in S2, they chose to tell us about Mike's first day of school ever. He tells us he felt so scared and so alone because he had no friends and knew nobody. This is alarming to me because for a child to feel so alone and scared barely on their first day tells me they've already been feeling this way prior. He's only five at this point.

There are a couple songs on his playlist that scream "I don't belong":

"You leave in the morning with everything you own in a little black case. Alone on the platform, the wind and the rain, on a sad and lonely face. Mother will never understand why you had to leave. For the love that you need will never be found at home." — Smalltown Boy by Bronski Beat

"Here in my car, I feel safest of all. I can lock all my doors, it's the only way to live, in cars." — Cars by Gary Numan

"Made to feel the way that every child should, sit and listen, sit and listen. Went to school and I was very nervous. No one knew me, no one knew me. Hello, teacher, tell me what's my lesson. Look right through me, look right through me." — Mad World by Tears for Fears

Mike and Being Different

Here's the thing with Mike - He's invisible. He has privilege that Lucas, Will and Dustin don't have. Whatever makes him different, he can hide. Or rather, he doesn't even need to do anything to hide. He slips between the cracks. Besides being bullied for his interests and appearance, he is still seen as the "normal" one amongst his friends.

But within his family, he is different. Something about him makes him different. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be so isolated from them. He would be right next to Nancy and Holly in their baby pictures. He wouldn't stand out in dinner table scenes. He wouldn't be scared and alone even before beginning school. He would be approached with the same effort by Karen the way Nancy is approached. The show would be emphasizing his dynamic with Karen but they don't. They choose not to.

We get this one parallel in S4 that is so. it's so. god. We're so gonna find out next season what makes Mike so different.

El talks about being different and not belonging. Will talks about being different and feeling like a mistake for it. Both are framed the exact same way, with Mike blurred in the background. Will is a character seen different within society. El is seen different within society and family. For Mike, I think he would be seen different within his family.

Will doesn't feel like he belongs in society due to his sexuality identity and his trauma with the UD. El doesn't feel like she belongs anywhere due to unfortunately growing up and being abused in a lab, making it harder for her to adapt to the real world. Mike doesn't feel like he belongs in his family due to his identity as a whole (sexuality, interests, etc,.) and not being their biological child (I think if it is true he isn't blood related, it would have to be tied to something supernatural, which would explain other things)

His parents finally coming around and telling him how much they love him and actually go after him instead of waiting for him, inviting themselves into the little world they let him close himself into, is something that I think is much needed next season for all their development. His relationship with his family is something that will be very crucial to his arc next season, I don't doubt that in the slightest. The Swiss Family Robinson record, the increase in Wheeler Family focus for S5, Smalltown Boy, Family being a core theme within the story, etc., you get the idea.

The writers have to tackle where Mike's internal issues sprouted from and that would be his home.

Mike's Name and Superman

This was originally meant to be for the next section but it got wayyy too long. This one does cross more into Alien Mike territory but I think is still important to include regardless.

A while ago I realized: Mike introduces himself to El as Michael but Mike for short. He then gives her the name Eleven, El for short. I thought it was interesting that if you combined both their nicknames, you'd get Mike-El.. Michael. Then I remembered.. Superman's actual name is Kal-El. His biological father is named Jor-El.

The suffix "El" means God.

Kalel = Voice of God

Jorel = Father/"God will uplift"

Michael = "Who is like God?"/A Gift from God

Jane = "God is gracious."

Yeahhh. I'm sensing a very intentional pattern here lol.

Mike's character itself and his role in Will's painting matches closely with Michael from the Bible, an archangel.

[x / x]

Michael is also associated with the color blue, which reminds me of our Mike, the Upside Down and of course — Superman. Not just that, but the meaning behind Michael reminds me of exactly what Superman's character is all about. He represents justice. He's a moral compass. He's a protector and a guiding leader who inspires others. He is selfless and willing to sacrifice. He's exactly the person that people need in their life. (hey remember that one pic shawn levy posted w finn lolol).

"They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you - My only son." - Jor-El to Superman

Michael = Gift from God... "I have sent them you" ... Mike being the Heart... Superman being the light people need... "Everyone needs a Mike in their life"... Mike guiding the whole Party and inspiring them.. Mike being the Key... Bruh. Y'know.. I'm just saying. Clearly, if Mike's whole thing was realizing he doesn't need to be Superman, they wouldn't have designed him to literally represent who Superman is more than the character that *he* thinks should be Superman.

If that was truly the point of his character, what happened with Mike in S4 would've been something set up for the next and final season. Not the season where they all lose in the end. Just a thought.

Possible Foreshadowing/Hints

This section is primarily about smaller details within the show that could serve as foreshadowing for the reveal.

Hopper tells Enzo, not literally, that his son (Mikhail, the literal Russian name variation of Michael) is not his son.

Karen jokes with Nancy that she could've been swapped at the hospital because she has no clue where she gets her positive traits from. Nancy tells her she gets it from her. Karen looks uncertain of this and responds with "Well.. Wherever you get it from..." This could be hinting at a future reveal that one of the Wheeler kids isn't biologically related.

In S1, the kids lie about El being Mike's cousin. During the ending of the season, before Mike kisses El, Mike tells her with certainty that his mom will adopt her. Nancy and Holly would be her sisters, his mom and dad would be hers. El then asks if he'd be like her brother, to which he responds with "No.. It's different." I don't think Mike would be aware he is adopted yet, but there could very well still be a hidden double message in that line.

Almost every film/story Mike brings up or hangs up in his room contains a main character that is an orphan. Superman, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Conan the Barbarian and The Dark Crystal. This is 5/7 films associated with Mike.

There's a painting in the Wheelers house of a family of birds. There are only 4 birds - Three adults and one baby. The Wheeler Family is a family of five. Someone's missing.

Conclusion

I really wonder what would've happened if Mike told them about going crazy and seeing El in S2. It's certainly something how he just never resolves anything with them that same season.

I think the fact the Wheeler parents have yet to learn Mike's involvement with supernatural shit is due to something that they're going to reveal in S5. I don't think Mike keeping all this from them including his own personal struggles for the entire show is for no reason.

This all being said, I am starting to strongly believe Mike isn't their biological child. You have all these things he deals with and doesn't get from his parents.. You look at it side by side with Nancy and Holly.. Yet you're still missing the "why." You need the "why." Holding off the "why" for this long could be indicating something big.

[theriverbeyond]

how do we know in the books that john is indigenous? can you say more about how his indigeneity is important to his story?

hello! so there is a word of god post on race (doesn't mention John but mentions that Gideon is "mixed Maori"), BUT I frankly don't think word of god statements are worth any weight without actual in-text support (see: the "dumbledore is gay" situation). SO!

Specific evidence that John Gaius is Maori, as revealed in Nona the Ninth:

When he is listing his education, John mentions having gone to Dilworth School (John 20:8). Dilworth is an all boys boarding school in Auckland and accepts students based on financial need instead of academic or sporting achievements. Demographics appear to be about 70% low income Maori boys, indicating that it is highly likely that John is Maori

John reports that P- said he looked like a "Maori-TV pink panther" (John 15:23) when his eyes turned gold. Maori TV is a TV station that is focused primarily on Maori culture & language revitalization, with presumably all or mostly Maori hosts, and tbh I don't see why P- would say this unless John was himself Maori

John uses a te reo Māori phrase ("kia kaha, kia māia") (John 5:20) when he is saying goodbye to the corpses in the cryo lab before the power is shut off. Though it is possible he said this as a non-Maori kiwi, but in combination with the previous two points of evidence I think this all very strongly points to him being Maori

He also renames his daughter Kiriona Gaia, "Kiriona" being just literally the name "Gideon" in te reo Māori

TLT is not a series that hands you anything on a silver platter but to ME this is all pretty solid proof

Why is this relevant to The Locked Tomb?

In Nona the Ninth, we learn that before he completed apotheosis and ate the solar system, John was basically trying to save the earth from capitalism-caused climate change. Climate justice and the rights of indigenous people over their own land are deeply tied together, in the same way that climate catastrophe and capitalism/ imperialism/ colonialism are linked. disclaimer that this is NOT my area of study and others have definitely said it better; this is just the basic gist as I understand it, but on quick search I found some sources here and here if you want to do some reading.

TLT is not a series that hands you anything on a silver platter, but i don't think it is a stretch to see John as an indigenous man trying to save the earth and getting ignored and shut down at every turn by primarily western colonial powers (PanEuro, the USA) who declare him a terrorist and then as a reader thematically connecting that to the experience of indigenous climate activists IRL

there are absolutely TLT meta posts that have discussed this before me; tumblr search is nonfunctional and I have been looking for an hour and a half and cannot find anything specific even though i KNOW i reblogged multiple posts about this in the first few weeks following NTN's release. sad & I am sorry

I think that by the time the books take place, John is 10k years removed from the cultural context he grew up in, with the Nine Houses having become a genocidal colonial power in their own right (with more parallels to be made between John's forever war for the resources of literal life energy and like, oil wars), but I also think that John Gaius is a fictional character who can represent and symbolize multiple different things in service of telling a story. (not to mention the potential thematic parallels being made to how oppressed people sometimes are pressed into replicating the power dynamics of their oppressors and continuing the cycle--now that is a tumblr post i KNOW i read last year and definitely cannot find right now, once again sad & I am sorry)

How Radical Was John Gaius, Really is a forum thread that was locked by the moderators after 234534645674564 pages of heated debate

[kiyomitakada]

hi everyone i have just dug up my pitch for death note musical 2: musical boogaloo from the depths of My Drafts. would you like to hear about it. of course you do here it is

kiyomi is the one who gets the death note

in this adaptation i’m making her kill only politicians. why? because fuck you that’s why (and death note musical changed so many of the characters that i think i am justified in this)

mikami, who idolized the former kira, is really mad that there is now a Pretender To The Throne. he has decided to seek this person out no matter what and somehow acquire the power for himself instead, because he will use it Properly

he expresses this opinion to his good friend kiyomi takada over their weekly dinner meeting. kiyomi is normal about it.

near and mello are doing exactly what they were doing in the manga. near did reconstruct L’s whole case even though kira went inactive because he wants to know who killed L. mello is in the mafia still

(there is no watari-equivalent in the original musical so im going to say watari doesn’t exist but roger & the orphan making factory do)

(that could be a great willy wonka variant. Roger Ruvie & The Orphan Making Factory.)

soichiro retired from the police amidst the fallout from the kira investigation. he has not been doing good. sachiko made him enroll in therapy.

sayu, on the other hand, is still desperate to believe that her brother wasn’t kira — that L was kira and went to kill light but not before light shot and killed him in self defense…?

(this is in fact the more reasonable explanation. two people dead, one of gunshot wounds, the other of a heart attack; obviously the one without a heart attack was kira. obviously!)

(for some reason her dad doesn't buy this.)

so anyway she’s a cop now

(we’re allowing a longer timeskip let’s say 10 years)

pause in mourning for sayu becoming a cop

the task force immediately forms again once the new kira appears, since they all really want closure. sayu manages to force her way in as well despite her parents’ fervent pleas for her to Not Do That. the task force mostly treats her as a grieving young girl which drives her insane

the new kira is pressuring the government to support their new reign, like what happened in yotsuba arc, so the task force is unofficial and a secret

a month after the new kira shows up, beloved idol misa amane vanishes

because mello kidnapped her. that’s why. mihael “mello” “serial kidnapper” keehl knew from the records that L tortured her and decided she must be relevant.

musical misa unfortunately is a moeblob so she was genuinely just trying to get on with her life even though she dreams about scattering dust every night

mello figures out from this that light yagami was the primary suspect from the original investigation but realizes pretty quickly she genuinely doesn’t know anything else

this does allow him to zero in on sayu yagami however because the task force’s member list is not obtainable information but the npa personnel list sure is

mello offers to let misa go, obviously under threat to her life if she ever reveals what happened etc., but she decides that actually she wants to know what’s going on as well. her life as an idol is miserable anyway.

…………..that’s all i got for plot im sorry if i start a kickstarter scam will you pay me for more ideas

re: the musical aspect:

sayu and misa both sing solos that very obviously leave space where light is supposed to sing, because i liked that the original musical made them parallels

mikami’s songs are all solos. gospel music backing like with misa’s songs.

near and mello duet constantly but the spotlight is always only on one of them until the finale where near is explaining mello’s plan (sorry yeah mello dies in this i don’t know how but he does) (he’s very killable can you blame me. he inherited it from lawliet), at which point near finally sings simultaneously with an apparition of mello until they reach “together we can surpass—” and near finishes “L.” alone

miscellaneous:

midora’s the one who dropped the death note. in this universe kiyomi got it rather than c-kira

midora has never done something like this before and she heard from ryuk that rem died by getting too close to her human so after a very brief explanation of the rules midora just flies back to the shinigami realm and watches from there. this drives kiyomi up a wall

i really, really want mikami to kill god (ryuk). i think he deserves it. it would be healthy for him.

(no not by making ryuk fall in love. he sets that bastard on fire or something)

the theme of this musical is Succession. kiyomi is facing immense internal pressure to do what the original kira did but she can’t stand having as much blood on her hands. mikami & his god, sayu & light, near/mello & L, so on and so forth

misa is not in the above list because (as in the original musical) she is the exception to the rule

the finale takes place when kiyomi’s hosting the red and white song battle show. for maximum coolness.

misa doing spy things during the rehearsal for kiyomi’s show… breaking into her room… setting cameras…

i don’t know how the politics of this musical are going to turn out to be. in my head kiyomi is extremely politically minded but she’s also a milquetoast liberal. centrist accelerationism and all that. ideally she would get enough power over the current right-wing government that she can enact policies herself and then start slipping back into the exact same right-wing shit. but i have read exactly 0 theory so i don’t know how i would pull this off

reading marx so i can write death note musical 2 musical boogaloo

anyway the first musical kind of didn’t go into any of that (much less than the manga does as far as i remember) so at least there’s no precedent

oh also and this is important. musical!sayu is the kind of vengeful that makes her perfect for being a cop (derogatory). she’s kind of like matsuda. she’s doing this For Light (the way matsuda shot light For Soichiro) not because she actually has any meaningful objection against kira the entity. i’m sure this will be fine.

i feel like i haven’t talked enough about near… i don’t know how much he could glean from the case. there’s no watari around to press the self destruct button but maybe L just didn’t keep notes in the first place.

i think it consumes him though. it’s illogical because the kira case is over and if you can’t win the game you’re nothing but a loser, but also he can’t tell if L won or not and that drives him mad although he’s very outwardly calm about it.

it just occurred to me that if you somehow only know death note through the musical it’d be kind of insane to show up to the sequel musical just to hear “oh yeah by the way there was an unethical orphanage to replace the detective guy from the first musical, obviously, we all know about the unethical orphanage”

[cynthiav06]

Does Percy ever have any trauma from Gabe?

I mean, in Tartarus, he says it smells like Gabe and I cannot fail to acknowledge his self-esteem issues which Gabe contributed to, but I mean more specific trauma like hating beer and gambling, etc. Something like that?

Percy has suffered due to Gabe for a long time, which contributes quite a lot to his trauma. You see, Rirodan was writing a children's book, and he didn't want to go down too many uncomfortable details, but the signs were there. A lot of them. And despite the canon's inconsistencies, Gabe is at least mentioned in accurate context every small time that he is referenced.

Rick, however, just to be safe, makes Percy's personality so that Percy avoids thinking of Gabe, and rightfully so. Let's take this slow. Because two important things, Percy's situation in the first book and all his issues are due to Gabe and, of course, he carries forward trauma from those situations, so what are they?

1.

Physical abuse is a part that is usually glossed over by the readers to some extent, even though it's in the first book. What I am trying to say is it is always acknowledged that Percy was abused, but rarely does the fandom go down the rabbit hole of specifics. If you see it once, you won't stop seeing it.

Gabe has both verbally and physically abused Percy so much that he has an extreme amount of self-esteem issues and a self-depreciating personality.

Not only did Gabe abuse Percy, but he also made Percy work part-time jobs or side hustles just to get extra money from Percy. Mind you, Percy was barely 12 in the first book, probably still 11, and this had been going for a while.

2.

If that wasn't enough Gabe controlled the budget of the family, not allowing Sally to spend more than he allowed and he splurged most money gambling so Percy grew up in very poor conditions but was sent to boarding schools with rich people which led to a lot of bullying from their end. Since Percy fought back, he somehow earned the per usual misnomer of being a troubled kid.

Cue all his expulsions. Some may be due to monster business, but most were definitely due to Percy fighting against bullies. Why is that notable? This is the start of Percy's anger issues. Percy has a lot of repressed anger from home due to Gabe and not being able to fight him (he hasn't tapped into his power yet, at least not enough of it). Plus, the bullies and horrible living conditions all contribute to Percy's attitude.

3.

Now, if you remember, in Book 1, Gabe threatens Percy severely so that he won't harm his car. But Percy was 12, and he himself says he wasn't going to be driving, but that wouldn't stop Gabe from blaming him. This means Gabe blamed Percy for everything, relevant or otherwise. We can see this in Percy's behavior when he immediately correlates every mistake as his fault and is always reflexively seen taking the blame for everything, even those that weren't his fault.

This scene actually creates a nice parallel against that scene in Book 5 where Percy is on a drive with Rachel in Paul's car and he is very suprised that Paul himself offered the car to him and didn't even impose any rules on Percy. He is however very worried when Blackjack dents the car because even though Paul is not Gabe, Percy has this natural fear against him at least subconsciously but is also very suprised when Paul doesn't get at all angry over the dent. It's such a sweet moment for Percy; he gets to learn how good fathers are.

3.

You mentioned gambling and drinking. Percy shows great dislike for the game in book 1, but he is forced to play cause of Dionysus. He's relatively good at it but doesn't play because he associates the game with Gabe. Same for alcohol. There's a line in the book where Percy says he knows how to recognize when others have been drinking or, as Percy calls it, hitting the happy juice. Obviously, alcohol makes Percy uncomfortable in itself, and he immediately dislikes Dionysus because he is a drunkard and a poker player along with a build similar to Gabe, which makes Percy naturally dislike him greatly. It doesn't help that Dionysus is a complete asshole but his initial natural dislike of Mr. D is due to Gabe.

4.

We all joke about how Percy is a fugitive and known terrorist in tons of states. This is all Gabe's fault. Percy gets in such problems with the law all due to Gabe and how he set literally every police department possible on Percy's trail. Now Percy, being Percy, he manipulates the officers to get on their good side, but he obviously still has problems with the law due to this entire fiasco.

The fandom likes to say that Percy got all his dark aura after Tartarus, but Percy has literally had killing intent since he was 12. One of his first lines in the book is "I am going to kill her" in reference to Nancy Bobofit. He gets gut punched by the realization that Gabe has been hitting his Mom. Gabe literally raised his hand against Sally in front of Percy in book 1. You can't tell me Percy recovered from that. He thinks then too of pulling Riptide and killing Gabe but realizes it wouldn't work on Gabe. Now Percy, who almost always means exactly what he says when talking to people, calls Gabe 'human by the loosest definition.' A 12 year old thinks that you can imagine how bad the situation was.

After Book 1, Rick heavily avoids mentioning abuse in his book cause he is trying to write for kids, but it shows.

Percy thinks of Gabe when he first accidentally iris messages in on one of his Mom's and Paul's dates. Percy is immediately suspicious, which is obviously why Sally hadn't told him anything before this. She wasn't completely sure about Paul, and she also didn't want Percy to worry. When Percy sees her laugh with Paul, he thinks of how much trouble his Mom went through with Gabe.

This is important because after Book 1 when Percy finally learns why Sally kept Gabe around in his head he twists the narrative as his Mom suffered Gabe, not that both he and Sally but only Sally suffered Gabe and why? To protect him. He BLAMES himself for something that's obviously completely not his fault. But in his head, he ends up masking his own pain and considering only Sally's pain valid. This is why Percy doesn't talk to anyone about Gabe and also why everyone thinks Gabe was a bit of a jerk but not an abuser. We literally see PERCY DO THIS TO HIMSELF. Same thing in The Last Olympian. Same thing in Mark of Athena. He talks about how his Mom suffered by staying in the awful marriage, not about himself.

5.

Now the famous House of Hades scene. See Tartarus draws out negative emotions and experiences and worst nightmares of a person to feast on. This is very telling because despite the endless life-death situations Percy has been in ,he thinks of Gabe. Because to Percy, self suffering is no suffering at all. But his Mom suffering is the worst of all. Now Annabeth obviously doesn't get the cue because she has no idea about how Percy lived in his past. While it is true that Annabeth cannot be held responsible for not getting why Percy brought up Gabe in Tartarus and took it as Percy making a joke; a case can be made against Annabeth's lack of initiative to learn more about Percy's life before all this. I digress as that's a completely different discussion. Point stands is that Percy is so unbelievably broken yet loyal that he doesn't even consider his own pain valid.

The next mention of Gabe is directly in Chalice of the Gods. Percy rather openly thinks how much he hated family dinners with Gabe. Also, he has a very nice conversation with Sally soon after he recovers from being turned into a child, where he talks about how powerless being a child felt and how afraid he was. I am certain that the implications indicate at both monsters and Gabe and how a young Percy had been very afraid of both situations but more of Gabe than monsters. Go figure.

It's plenty clear how much trauma Percy has from Gabe and how much he has trained his mind to either avoid it or redirect it elsewhere lest he regress into bitterness and anger issues.

It's probably longer than you expected, but I like systematic exploration of points, hence the long rant. I have done my best to break it down, so it's easier to follow. Also, I am very, very happy for this ask as I really love to explore Percy's personality and Percy's powers. Feel free to send me more along this line of thought.

@fourcornersofcreation ,@hermesmyplatonicbeloved, @helenofsparta2 , @ogjacksonsimp, and @berrybore have all also made posts exploring some of Percy's trauma and they will probably have things to add as well. So please check their posts on this topic as well in case I missed anything.

[cabeswaterdrowned]

what do you think are the main similarities vs differences between Ronan and Andrew?

Hey! I don’t know how long this has been in my inbox (which I have been neglecting in recent months) but sure I actually have quite a few thoughts on the comparisons in the fandom and where I see them as accurate/inaccurate.

Let’s start with the similarities; they’re both traumatized mentally ill gay men who react to their trauma in ways that aren’t palatable to those around them because the ways in which they act out are destructive to themselves and those around them, are perceived as troubled/angry/having issues with authority, they’re both iterations of the bad boy with a softer side trope (although imo very different iterations, but I’ll get to that later), they’re both members of two trios one of relatives and one that’s a polyamorous triad / friendship group and there are certain parallels in these dynamics (although also a lot of differences imo, which I’ll get to later), they’re both characterized as extremely loyal to the point of being dog-like, they’re both motivated by their care for other people and have little regard for their own life (with Ronan he’s clearly suicidal, with Andrew he canonically self harms and there is a case to be made for him being suicidal imo, no it’s not explicit and jury’s out on whether Nora meant to imply it but there is room to read him that way), oh and they both love cars.

However, there are loads of differences and I do feel like blanket comparisons of them within the fandoms tend to create false equivalencies that do a disservice to one char/source material or another which is why I’m excited to get into my thoughts on that matter. 

•Let’s start with their backgrounds and how they are perceived by those around them, because I do feel like important context for comparing their behaviors is that Ronan grew up wealthy and has always had *some* type of support system (not a healthy one, but he has always had someone caring about him on a basic level of doing what they can to keep him alive). The way people around Ronan view and react to his mental health is quite terrible, however his wealth does protect him from certain systemic forces as there are limits to what the police / mental health institution / Aglionby staff can get away with in their treatment of him / the level to which they’re allowed to dehumanize him. Meanwhile Andrew’s whole storyline is like. Imagine the worst ableism you can imagine being allowed to go completely unchecked due to classism and here are the effects. (It is relevant to acknowledge that both of them have a lot of white privilege though and that comes across in the way they interact with police in the texts, they’re rude and violent to them in ways chars like Nicky or Henry could never afford to be). On the other hand I do think Andrew is perceived as being self-sufficient and competent by those around him (his friends, his family, even the upperclassmen who hate his guts view him as being capable of protecting Kevin and see him as a formidable force), whereas Ronan although he’s seen as *scary* by outsiders gets kind of treated with kid gloves in a way by those closest to him (Gansey and Declan are both guilty of this). 

•In terms of their mental health they both experience depression or depressive episodes, however Andrew’s depression is characterized more as a numbness/apathy, the absence of feeling etc. whereas I don’t think language like that is used to describe Ronan’s emotional states nearly as much with him there’s more focus on anger and grief  (Andrew has a lot of anger too but it manifests differently). 

•imo this is partially informed by the class difference and how it influences their worldviews, but Andrew is a much more strategic character than Ronan is. Yes he can be reckless and impulsive, however he is constantly surveying his surroundings, the other people around him, and is very perceptive with sizing up threats and maintaining the structure he wants to impose. He’s control-oriented and cerebral in the way he interacts with the world in a manner that’s more similar to Adam or even Gansey than it is to Ronan imo. I do think Ronan is far more observant than a lot of characters give him credit for, and he’s more emotionally intelligent than Andrew is (would also say Andrew and Adam are similar in their low empathy issues) but he’s just not a strategist and he doesn’t care about control in the way Andrew/Adam are obsessed with it (can be traced back to them both being abused poor kids who were constantly robbed of control growing up, and therefore are hyper aware of the hierarchies around them and how they are being weaponized against them (although Andrew does not glorify or find those hierarchies to be aspirational in the way Adam does, he’s more Ronan-like in how he feels about them even though he has Adam-like perceptiveness of them) and so their strategy is to be hyper vigilant and to take advantage of weakness where they see it)). 

•While both of them are well developed characters who go beyond the typical bad boy with a soft side character sketch, I do think the jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold trope is played straighter (only straight thing about him etc. ) with Ronan than it is with Andrew. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, just an observation. Andrew is a much harsher, significantly more morally ambiguous character than Ronan is (I don’t think of Ronan as a particularly morally ambiguous character tbh. Adam and Hennessy, those are morally gray characters but Ronan is as I said. Much more of a jerk with a heart of gold character). 

I think Andrew’s narrative could be looked at as a really effective subversion of that trope (it’s been too long since my last aftg reread for me to Really go into my thoughts on how this is accomplished know I would have a lot to say on this topic if it were fresher in my mind), whereas Ronan’s narrative sort of. Utilizes that character conceit to explore topics around grief and trauma. Both are good storylines (well. Ronan’s og trc storyline is good anyway) but they accomplish different things to me. 

•When comparing and contrasting Andrew & Aaron & Nicky with The Lynch Brothers I would say a big stand out difference is Andrew being so much in the *protector* role, not that Ronan isn’t protective especially of Matthew but that family dynamic is like. Yes Declan and Ronan are Matthew’s coparents (lol) but ultimately Declan is the Guardian tm and responsibility for both of his brothers fall on him. I would say that Nicky and Andrew have a sort of coparenting dynamic when it comes to Aaron (one of my favorite genres of aftg fic is actually exploring this dynamic pre series while the twins were in high school I find the possibilities fascinating) but it’s more of a Nicky is good cop while Adam is bad cop type of parenting dynamic. They sort of bring different things to the table but share in the responsibility (which makes them sound oddly functional lmao they’re Absolutely Not). That also goes back to what I was saying about Andrew being treated as more mature and adult by those around him than Ronan is while on the flip side also being dehumanized more (and there is analysis to be mined from Andrew being a character who comes across as extremely mature or extremely immature at different points in the books and how that can be read as a reaction to his CSA trauma but that’s a different meta). But yeah, Andrew is treated as an adult and a protector in that dynamic in a way that Ronan is not is basically what I meant. I also think while Ronan-Declan and the Twinyards have a fair amount of parallels Ronan and Declan just had a stronger foundation before their issues really took hold, and that prevented them from cold shouldering each other to the extent Andrew and Aaron do for a lot of canon. I also think it’s worth noting that Andrew and Declan (not counting Greywaren) are the chars who find what their ain’t shit dead parent did to be unforgivable while it’s Ronan and Aaron who love and in Ronan’s case defend them. I feel like there are definitely other comparisons of note in their dynamics but that’s all my brain is supplying at this time. 

•When comparing and contrasting rodansey and kandreil, well the most obvious and key difference is who is “in charge” in the dynamic because Andrew is clearly the Leader of the pack in the same way Gansey is (yes their leadership styles are different but it’s equally true for both dynamics) whereas Ronan is the character who never vies for leadership while Gansey-Adam engage in their psychosexual power struggles, and despite (or more likely because of) being the most abrasive character of the bunch he tends to serve as a point of relief in their conflicts (ex: doing something awful enough that adansey had to start speaking to each other again after the Gansey-offers-to-buy-Adam a phone debacle). Andrew and Ronan are both seen as “non-competetive” and as lacking the drive Kevneil/Adansey have but I would argue they both are driven characters in certain ways it’s just that their goals and motivations aren’t about things like academics or a quest or sports or leadership, Andrew is scarily driven when it comes to protecting/preserving himself, the select people he cares about and whatever structurally is allowing things to run as he wishes (he’ll help Coach or the upperclassmen out when the result helps him protect Kevin or keeping the team in line so they don’t mess things up for him and his family, for instance) and Ronan is passionate about things like dreaming and the farm it just isn’t the type of traditional ambition Adam has. However neither of them are interested in being #1 for the sake of it, Andrew prefers to be in charge for protection / self-preservation / control but he gets no pleasure out of it, so that is something that kind of.. neutralizes them when it comes to certain inter-group conflicts. So that they have in common. 

•Kandrew & Ronsey comparisons — well in terms of similarities there is the dog motif of it all. in terms of differences, ronsey have a more static power dynamic where Gansey is always in the “master” role, their dynamic does change over the series but mostly in the sense that they both form other bonds and Gansey isn’t Ronan’s sole reliable connection by the end of the series. But there’s never like. A dramatic change or a time / circumstance when Ronan is more in power in the dynamic (yes he’s the more powerful character magically but that never impacts the nature of his and Gansey’s relationship). Kandrew meanwhile have a sort of. Double inverted master-pet dynamic going on where yes Andrew is Kevin’s *guard dog*, Riko calls him a pet etc. but there are also times where certain characters see Kevin as Andrew’s possession and Andrew has a lot of authority over Kevin in certain situations due to the nature of their deal. I also think there’s more of an evolution to the power dynamics of their relationship from TFC to TKM then there is for Ronsey which I’m sure I’ve talked about before but I’m too lazy to go into my thoughts so just check out my Kandrew tag if your curious. They have a more contentious relationship than Ronsey do (this is a pro for me as I like contentiousness <3) for sure, in a lot of ways I find Kandrew and Adansey to be similar as they’re the relationships between characters who love each other to very insane, codependent degrees but fundamentally misunderstand each other (class difference plays a role in both cases) and they tend to have the ugliest conflicts, also they’re the dynamics I’ve spent the most time hyper focusing on in these trios that says nothing about me and my preferences at all <3. 

•Andreil & Pynch comparisons — the most obvious difference is that even at their most contentious Pynch were never nearly as antagonistic as Andreil were in the beginning lol. Andreil have a true enemies to lovers arc whereas Pynch are slow burning, but their early TRB dynamic only looks adversarial when you compare it to the Gansey dynamics in early TRB, there’s always some level of friendship there it just deepens significantly as the books go on. I also think that Pynch are both more concerned with societal norms than Andreil are, between Ronan’s Catholicism and Adam’s obsession with conformity + the ideal WASP life, and that influenced the type of relationship they try to have in td3, whereas Andreil are very comfortable with not fitting into typical boxes for relationships. And I will say that while as a series I definitely prefer trc to aftg as a series, I do find andreil to be a more compellingly developed romance overall than pynch. I do think the difference between a sole narrator and multi pov affects this.

There are definitely other points to compare/contrast but these are the ones my brain supplied atm. Andrew is more My Type of character than Ronan is since I unfortunately can not resist an emotionally repressed neurotic freak with control issues it’s a peak male character design from my pov, but I don’t think that makes him a better character than Ronan just more appealing to me (while trc appeals to me more than aftg as a media for other subjective reasons). When it comes to objective writing I would say that Ronan is a more developed character but that Andrew’s narrative is more cohesive and so in some ways more successful. 

[linderosse]

Super valid question that doesn’t really have a set answer.

The Wisdomverse definitely started off as an LU spinoff, since it was always planned to progress in parallel with The Secrets We Keep.

But since then, I’ve changed quite a few things to fit the story I want to tell. These changes largely stem from actual Zelda canon, or certain fan canons that have been around in the LU fandom for some time. Back when I began planning this AU, many of these things hadn’t been confirmed for LU yet, and fans had their own theories. I chose the ones I liked, and also ones that maximize emotional damage (😇) and better match the stories I want to tell.

Spirit and Phantom are not Wind and Tetra

The FSA manga is canon

FSA takes place directly after FS

Legend and Fable are siblings

All relevant characters remember Hyrule Warriors (if they’ve already fought in the War of Eras)

Echo is Aurora, not Fable. Cadence of Hyrule is canon now, and is Echo’s second adventure (AoL is her third).

Smash is peripherally canon and some characters can remember it.

As I go on, I’ve sort of been viewing this more and more as its own thing that is also compatible with the LU Links. I’ve been using tags like #wisdomverse, #wielders of wisdom, and #wis sun or #wis echo for a while now, to differentiate the Zeldas from the potential LU versions.

That said, I still don’t mind folks tagging this as Linked Universe content when applicable, and I’m still going to be keeping the crossover going with the paired arts and The Secrets We Keep. This really still is an AU of LU, even if it’s also its own thing.

Essentially, full credit to @linkeduniverse for the awesome Links-meet idea that I’ve taken my own spin on. Mad respect to them; I’m a huge fan of their ideas and content.

And shoutout to the rest of the LU fandom for the Zelda names (Sun, Lullaby, etc). I continue to stress that, though the personalities, characters, stories, designs, and profession-titles (founder, rogue, etc) of Wisdomverse are either motivated by canon or a creation of my own, the Zelda names in particular were created by the LU fandom as a whole, and I’m using them as a tribute, and to maintain consistency with LU.

Tl;dr: Wisdomverse started off as an LU AU, but it has since sort of evolved into its own thing. The LU Links are still going to be in TSWK and crossovers, and I don’t mind folks tagging LU when relevant. Though some of the details may not match up anymore, I still think of these Zeldas as compatible with the core personalities and adventures of the LU Links.

Masterpost

[rederiss]

Also (sorry not sorry I'm yapping this book IS FANTASTIC) this is me being mildly (just a bit) salty. It has not escaped my attention that people go feral for kevjean (Which i enjoy as a fan heavy concept, less so in canon. Moving away from Kevin is ideal for Jean, at least where I am.) And Jerejean has such a lovely slowburn buildup thus far (thematically, character-wise, they correspond with the journeys each character has set up and I'm genuinely excited to see how this plays out!), and I'm all on board.

I feel like I am the *only person* who is so attached to Jean and Renee. Not even in a "oh I want them together", in that they hit a harder emotional beat for me than Kevin and Jean, imo. Maybe it's because I'm a sucker for a good "right person, wrong time/place." conflict. I just find this so utterly tragic and sweet. They can't heal together, and that's why they separate. And I find that really fascinating in comparison to Jeremy, who is someone who i think is set up as a place and person and time Jean is able to heal alongside.

Anyway, once again I am screeching about (and maybe I missed it but i rarely see Renee and Jean's romantic connotations discussed) a bisexual man (canonically bisexual! explicitly bi!!!) having his on page relationship with a woman swept aside. Because say what you will, but the Jean and Renee dynamic (not even just as a romantic one, overall I find it enthralling) is so bittersweet to me. That idea of needing a person to find healing with is so fjsjdjsjdjsjdn

I have to read more to build my point, which is ultimately that I see more parallels and thematic relevance in the Renee/Jean vs Jeremy/Jean relationships. The Kevin thing is (as i saw someone point out) a very codependent and unhealthy relationship. As much as I adore them, and I'd gladly engage in fan content for them, I think the other two relationships we see Jean have create a more compelling story to his journey and his healing. Does this make sense? I'm screeching.

Jerejean balance eachother so well, and as you progress in their books, you’ll see why I say this. They both will be able to give eachother what they need. Kevjean… Okay so Imma just say I disagreed but was chill with a Kevjean or Kerejean ship. It was a not until people kept minimize Jeremy’s characterization and even ignoring Jean’s needs that I started to really dislike it, which surprised me. Save for very specific ships, I don’t often dislike ships. Most of the time, I understand why they exist. Ships with Kevin feels like it’s only about Kevin and not about the others, so I distanced myself. (I can get behind Kevjean as friends though. Like a platonic/brotherly kind of love. But nothing past that.. I got thoughts on what their friendship could do for them both, and I doooo hope they find that form of love one day!)

*Coughs* The reason why you don’t see Jeanee being talked about is because people often dont like women being involved in ships. Oops I said something controversial! Haha. We see that with Kevthea (okay this one is complicated, and I know it. However, I have seen comments about Thea getting in the way of their ships. So thus included). We definitely see that with Jeanee. I have even seen someone go as far to say that Renee took advantage of Jean. CRAZY. Jean and Renee is so special to me because… something so so sooo interesting about Jean is the forever misplaced partners trope that he’s got going on.GOD I can go on and on about that.

People do not want to admit that Renee actually played an integral part in Jean’s healing journey. Her and Neil both actually! If it weren’t for Neil giving Renee Jean’s number, she wouldn’t have been able to save him! Renee and Jean are so tragic, but I’m glad we got Jeremy in the mix who is so similar to Renee. Jean is building himself a support system. MY BOY! Jean needs someone who is… already on their healing journey. Kevin is not that. Kevin needs to heal (and I got thoughts about that)

Renee… GOODNESS! I was shipping them before I knew Jeremy and Jean were a thing. They were my favorite ship until I got… about halfway through TSC is when it started to shift to Jeremy. Just AH Jean is such a special character to me. He deserves someone who is understanding and kind and not attached to the nest. Renee and Jeremy both provide that. Though I am glad he is pursuing Jeremy. 🥰

[pineappleliar]

I gotta go crazy talking about the Abnormalities/Distortion dichotomy for a bit, cause its been spinning around in my mind as I make my way through Lob Corp/Limbus. Also I’ve only got like 30 minutes in Ruina so I probably have holes in my knowledge even if I know LoR’s general plot.

Limbus makes two thinks clear about the two; that these entities have a distinct ‘feel’ from each other, and that Abnormalities are the end state for a Distortion. Beyond that we know a few traits exclusive to Abnormalities; namely that they are immortal, and can produce Enkaphalin. As well, both have Carmen as a key element in their creation, although I’m not sure if she is a requirement, or just the most common means available.

you see, before learning that evolution thing in the most recent Intervallo I had assumed the two were parallel creations through cogito, the main difference being the willingness of the individual being changed in the process. Abnormalities are formed from unwilling subjects, and Distortions, for all their turmoil, are choosing to become said creatures. The fact that a Distortion is an earlier state of an Abno changes things, though, as it brings into question something that’s bugged me about Lob Corp for a bit now.

Simply put, too many of the Abnos in the Corporation are clerly reflecting specifically the anxieties of Ayin (and Carmen) to be ignored. The birds are the three parts of the Head, Whitenight is the false prophet nature of the corp if they never actually complete the tree, Bloodbath is here, and my favorite the Black Swan who suspiciously has a backstory where a girl named Elijah becomes sick due to contamination and melts in front of someone. There’s more than that, but the point in these aren’t the concerns of the people who were used as the base for these Abnos; they’re the concerns of the Manager specifically being plastered on top of someone else.

So how does that work?

I think about the Time Ripper distortion here, and how its brought up in the Intervallo. One of the main highlights of its narrative is in how the Distortion itself has begun to contradict its own thesis statement for existing; rather than sharing its time equally, certain parts hog the time and recreate that disparity. And I think that is relevant because it brings up the question of what happens to a Distortion who can’t even fulfill the desire they distorted for?

Well, they become an abnormality.

It provides something akin to an answer to the Lob Corp question, because it gives a means to bypass the Distortion phase entirely by just overwriting said person’s goals out the gate. Alternatively, the absence of a responsive Carmen could be the issue; she does provide a particular sense of direction to those who do Distort, so it could be without her around things were more likely to spiral off into something without any direction. Ugh but how do the Peccatula factor into this…

Anyways really looking forward to playing Library of Ruina and realizing everything I put here is comically wrong.

[vidavalor]

Closing Doors & Pushing Buttons

A look at the visual puns in the lift/elevator scenes in S2, and how Gabriel's trip down parallels and contrasts with Crowley and Aziraphale's trips up, as requested by @noxarealis. 💕

In the last moments of S2, we have the scene where Aziraphale gets into the lift/elevator with Our Villain. We see Our Villain push/press the button for what floor once Aziraphale is in the elevator and then we hear the automated voice say what are the last lines of dialogue of the season:

Doors closing. Going up.

I think that, when taken as visual puns? This tells us pretty much everything about what's going on here.

Our Villain is pushing Aziraphale's buttons-- pressing on sore spots to try to manipulate a desired emotional response. This has resulted in Aziraphale getting into the elevator. The elevator is a trap laid by Our Villain. As a result, what's happening? Our next two visual puns-- doors closing and going up.

When we metaphorically say that a door is closing, we mean that something-- an opportunity, a situation, etc.-- is being put into the past. In a proactive sense, closing or shutting a door yourself on something can mean moving on from it. It can be a positive or a negative thing, depending on the situation, or, sometimes, a bit of both.

For example, when we see the video of Gabriel running for his life from Heaven? Even though we know he's going to make it out of there and to the bookshop, it's still a relief when we hear the disembodied voice say: Doors closing.

Gabriel isn't safe in Heaven so him getting out of there and those doors closing behind him is a good thing. It's a good thing to leave Heaven in the past for him and to go to Earth, where he has healthier opportunities. He's the only one in S2 for whom doors closing is a good thing, though, because everyone else is riding the elevator in the opposite direction.

While both Crowley and Aziraphale go up in S2, Gabriel is the one who comes down to Earth, a phrase that we use to describe someone who is more concerned with day-to-day living than with the theoretical. He's the only one of the three, main character elevator riders who finds a better way of living.

The exact etymology of the phrase down to Earth is unknown but it is speculated that it comes from a source that is an unbelievably relevant to Good Omens. The dominant theory on down to Earth is that it comes from either or both of the ideas of celestial creatures, like angels, coming down to Earth to live amongst mortal humans or from God's word being brought down to the human people of Earth.

It's also worth noting that Gabriel is the only character for whom we actually hear the disembodied voice say something else very important that is related to this:

Doors opening.

When Gabriel presses the button to summon the elevator to Earth, we know this is a good thing. He's opening doors for himself by taking himself down to Earth. He's able to do this because he has help from Beez, Crowley, and Aziraphale. There's another way forward for Gabriel because, collectively, the four of them have made one. They've all opened doors for one another.

There's also the famous quote related to this that talks about reassurance:

When The Lord closes a door, somewhere, He opens a window.

This idiom has one of the most disputed etymologies of all popular idioms. It's been mistaken for a Bible verse but it doesn't appear anywhere in The Bible. It's been credited to Alexander Graham Bell (the inventor of one of Good Omens' favorite motif-y things, the telephone) and to Helen Keller but there is no proof that either of them actually originated the phrase.

The one thing that is known is that the idiom was popularized into the mainstream by Maria using it in the very Good Omens-relevant The Sound of Music... a musical that Good Omens is pretty heavily implying that, in its universe, Crowley and/or Aziraphale basically wrote.

Once Gabriel arrives on Earth and is safe inside the bookshop, he then is shown around windows a whole bunch of times, representing the pluses and minuses of the new opportunity of his open door down on Earth. Besides the depressive episode and drunk Crowley combining to have him nearly jumping out of a window-- which is also idiomatic for being suicidal for obvious reasons-- there are some other play on words using Jim and his new life now that he's opened a door for himself and closed one on the life he used to have.

When you have a window of opportunity-- a certain amount of time in which to accomplish something... like he and Crowley and the Operation Lovebirds Vavoom...

...or, to have a window on the world being to learn more about the world that exists beyond one's own situations and experiences... like the episode in S2 that opens with Jim waking up to look out at Whickber Street from his window.

Angels can go down in different ways... including to Earth. As, where does the disembodied voice say Gabriel is going when he gets into the elevator, even as he dropped the matchbox and avoided a fall to Hell? He's still falling because a mental health spiral is really, fundamentally, what a fall is. He's still, literally, at least...

Going down.

Gabriel isn't going to Hell, though. We've seen that he's already been in metaphorical Hell already... in Heaven. It's all the same system. Someone who is going down is also someone who is not going to win, or who might die. Gabriel got into the elevator and took a risk. He had to close the door on Heaven or he wouldn't survive. He had to hope there was another door that would open for him on Earth. He took a leap of faith that he would make it, which we all have to do at different times.

Inside the elevator, there are only three buttons and the only truly different button is Earth.

Earth is blue-green and shows the planet without letters, indicative of it being a place open to people of all languages-- which is to say all people. Heaven and Hell, though, only seem like they have different buttons. The colors change on them but they both have a big, capital letter H in the center. They're both just two parts of the same system. It's all the same office building. The only way out is Earth.

I think it's also worth noting here how we see the supernatural elevator work in Good Omens. For the most part, it works like a human elevator but there are some notable exceptions.

For one thing, it only has the three buttons. You cannot ride the elevator to anywhere but Heaven, Hell, or Earth-- those are the only transport options. In human idioms, Heaven and Hell are places some people believe people go when they die. For the only options in the elevator to be Earth, Heaven, or Hell, it's looking pretty heavily like the elevator is literally life or death-- especially since Gabriel failing to take it to Earth in S2 would have meant his death.

Absent in the elevator is also anything that a human elevator would have for other buttons. There is no emergency stop, for instance. There is no help/panic button or backup phone. Once you're in this thing, you're going to wherever you selected, end of story. This adds to the life/death suggestion of the lift.

Once you're in the elevator, you can no longer contact anyone from the outside for the duration of the ride to your destination. This wasn't a big deal for Gabriel fleeing to Earth but it takes on a whole other, eerier meaning when you look at the Aziraphale elevator scene.

There is, possibility, also a connection in here to the sign on Mrs. Sandwich's building, where you take the elevator's opposite thing-- the stairs-- upstairs to some little death. How do you do that, though? Per her sign, you come upstairs-- one at a time, no pairs. The same is actually true of the elevator of more literal death, I think. Ultimately, we all do that alone.

Where the elevator does work like a human elevator, though, is in what the Gabriel scenes showed us, which is that the elevator will not move with the doors still open. Also like a human elevator? Pushing a button to select a destination will also, first, automatically close the doors. The elevator doors have to be closed for it to move-- meaning, that you have to be putting something in the past to make a move.

Choosing to make that move-- selecting a destination-- will automatically close the doors to wherever you're at so you can put it in the past. That's also symbolic of growth and change as much as it's also death, right? At some point, you're going to have to close the door on one thing in order to, really, open yourself up to something new. Every end of something else is a new beginning. Every personal armageddon is an ending that is, also, a beginning.

It starts, as it will end, with a garden and an apple.

Okay, so what about Crowley's parallel trip up in the elevator in S2?

Crowley approaches Muriel with a specific destination. He's on Earth and he's of Hell and he wants to go to Heaven. He's having a whole ball with "going to Heaven", sex-and-death innuendo that is going over Muriel's head before they get into the elevator. Even as he is, the imagery around the two of them and the elevator is more in line with literal death than little death.

All that white light in the darkness, the casket brown of the pub, the closing doors. It's a nighttime version of the same contrast of Aziraphale's choice of going into the light the next morning versus staying with the blues and greens of Crowley standing by the appropriately named Give Me Coffee or Give Me Death.

While we know that Crowley and Muriel do go up, we never actually see Crowley or Muriel push a button. Instead, Crowley tells Muriel:

Close the doors.

The camera remains outside the elevator and we watch the doors close on the two of them. These doors would have closed automatically if they had pressed the button for Heaven or Hell on the wall. There's no need, as we can see from the Gabriel and Aziraphale scenes, to take the separate step of closing the elevator doors.

While Crowley could have magically closed the doors himself, he finds that he can't actually close the doors to Earth. He needs Muriel to do it for them. He's a bit afraid. He's leaving everything he cares about here on the other side of these doors. He doesn't actually want to go to Heaven. He's not sure if this is going to work and if he'll be coming back. He has Muriel shut the door because he can't be the one who does it himself. In this way, the scene is really not terribly dissimilar to what Aziraphale does in The Final 15, even if those circumstances were also a bit different.

Speaking of that scene...

The second that Aziraphale decides to go through into the elevator, Our Villain presses the button for Heaven. In doing so, the disembodied voice comes back and, as we said above, she tells us what's happening:

Doors closing. Going up.

These are the final lines of dialogue in S2 and almost the last spoken words entirely, not counting Tori Amos' "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square." We know doors closing mean that Aziraphale is shutting the door on the past and moving into a new state of something here. A lot of the tension comes from the fact that the doors are closing for him on Earth, which is what makes us feel that this is all Very, Very Bad. As Gabriel and the whole rest of the damn show have proven lol, Earth is the way forward. You don't want to be on the other side of closed doors blocking you from Earth for any reason because then you're, well... pretty dead.

The key bit, though, is in what else is said-- the very last bit of dialogue in S2. This is the only time in the elevator scenes that we've heard the disembodied voice say the really, really bad thing that it would be good if we didn't hear ever, really...

Going up.

Idiomatically, going up is a phrase more commonly used to describe something that is on fire, which is a whole thing related to Hell. And what happens when things go up in flames? They transform and fall. Why are there so many fire extinguishers in the shop? asked Nina, late in S2. Because there was a fire there once, Aziraphale told her. "And books can go up like..." and when those books (symbolically, people) go up, they transform into ash and fall back down.

The very last words of the season tell us what's happening to Aziraphale: he's going up. He's not going to be staying in Heaven-- he's just stopping there because he's going up in flames and going to fall to Hell. You can't actually go down without first going up. You can't fall, if you're not first placed on high.

It's also worth noting that the background of Heaven's elevator button is white light-- like what you step into when you get into the elevator. White light is synonymous with death. Additionally, the capital letter H on the Heaven button is not actually Heavenly gold in color... it's a shade of orange, the cinematic color of death, stemming from a film that Good Omens loves to reference-- The Godfather. The whole gonna make him an offer he can't refuse film.

When you say it aloud, you can hear the plot in the idioms:

Aziraphale left Earth and stepped into the light so where is Aziraphale going? He's going to Heaven. Meaning: He's going to die. He's going to literal Heaven to die a form of death and, likely, to fall to Hell. Reiterating this is also Crowley and Aziraphale fading during the closing credits splitscreen and the other time we saw that being when this dude (who eventually came back to life) faded to the stars as he died in S1:

A funny thing about the letter H, too...

The letter H evolved from the Phoenician letter inspired by it, known as heth. The heth and the eventual letter H it evolved into were inspired by its ancestor, an ancient Egyptian hieroglyph that stood for a gate.

In the the opening titles of S2, The Dirty Donkey is shown with The Resurrectionist Pub's sign hanging over it, drawing a connection between the two-- death and resurrection. In the show, the address for The Resurrectionist Pub is shown on the record that Maggie gave Aziraphale. It is 66 Goat Gate.

Bildad to the demons/kids/all people-paralleling goats, in the opening of the episode entitled The Clue: "You should know why you're about to die. God has abandoned you."

Aziraphale's miracle inhibits Mrs. Sandwich during The Meeting Ball and makes it so that, in a sense, what she's saying reflects him, too. "I'm a godforsaken seamstress..."

Who is said to have been given the keys to the gates of Heaven in the Bible lore being satirized in the story? St. Peter, right? Peter comes from petros, meaning stones or rocks, all of which are all over the goat-themed beginning of the Job minisode, as seen again below, and, way more importantly?

To peter/peter out is to be slowly exhausted. It's to diminish gradually and then cease to exist. It's to saunter vaguely downwards. It's a slow, ongoing falling that leads to a crash, which is what Good Omens really is showing us. The whole thing is Aziraphale's fall. It's about how we're all metaphorically Peter in turn-- we all fall. We're all angels and demons and very, very human.

St. Peter was a name given to his apostle by Jesus so, also relevant to this etymology-happy story is then St. Peter's real name, yes? And what was that? Simon bar Jonah.

Simon means hearing. bar is a pub-- like where the elevator is-- and also to stop something. Jonah means a dove, a pigeon, a bird.

Simon bar Jonah = can't hear no damn birds. Or: no nightingales...

We're all St. Peter/Simon bar Jonah at times. We all fall. We've all got the keys to the gates but we're human and we get tired and worn out and, when we're petering out, it impacts our ability to understand what's going on around us. We have trouble getting beyond ourselves to really hear what others are saying. As we saw, that was true of both Crowley and Aziraphale in The Final 15.

As a result, they're going up.

After all, Muriel opened the door to the elevator to Heaven for Crowley with a rather interesting hand gesture-- lifting their hand up... and then slamming it straight down again.

It actually looks like they are pulling a rope cord on an old-fashioned lamp-- a gesture that could both turn a lamp on or off, depending on what its status was when the cord was pulled. Same gesture, same elevator, same system. Angel, demon, human-- all just people. Light goes on, light goes off... light can be turned back on again.

[thefandomenchantress]

Chapter 2 Episode 15 Spoilers below!

Since Ace being the culprit has brought about so much pain to ace lovers, including me, I figured I'd make a list of all the good things that him being the culprit brings to us. Even though Ace will (probably) be executed next episode, that doesn't mean that nothing good came out of this, right?

-Ace's backstory may be revealed much sooner than expected! Before we would've had to wait for chapter 3 or chapter 4 and so on, but since Ace will be gone soon, almost everything not revealed next episode will get told to us in a bonus episode! (I think every dead person gets one of those? Idk if that's officially confirmed). I doubt Teruko's gonna find, like, Ace's diary in chapter three detailing his life story, so if we're ever getting the Taylor Lore™, it'll be in a bonus episode! Plus, a bonus episode would come out a lot faster than the whole of chapter three, so more Ace content sooner no matter what happens in it! And there's always the chance he gets picked for an FTE, since dead people are on the list of options.

-Ace canonically has neat, fancy handwriting. Begone rumors of Ace having illegible, traditionally boy-ish handwriting, he actually writes like a 19th century scholar and I find this very funny. More evidence for my 'Ace likes reading and writing and wanted to become a romance author' crack theory, since he also reenforced his particularness about vocabulary in chapter 2 part 2. (Our only remaining question: Does Ace actually have terrible spelling ('responsibel'), or did he just think Eden would?)

-Ace is very good at being sneaky and often overhears things he shouldn't. I can't wait for this to be used as a plot device in numerous fics ("XANDER YOU'LL NEVER GUESS THE SHIT I JUST HEARD DAVID SAY ABOUT YOU WHEN HE THOUGHT HE WAS ALONE").

-Ace will have to be included in the dead (formerly a) trio posts forevermore. Get ready for Xander-Min-Arei-Ace shenanigans.

-Now that the cast has been forced to acknowledge that being dumb and angry aren't Ace's only traits and that he's just as human as the rest of them, Ace is much less likely to be seen as just those two things by the average viewer. Ace's popularity, or at least the amount of dislike towards him, seems to have shifted since the last episode, and I'm happy more people are able to enjoy what his character has to offer now. He's a cool little guy. I've literally NEVER seen the Ace Markey tag this busy before.

-We got so many cool Ace CGs guys. SO MANY. Including one where he's hanging upside down on the swing set and looks weirdly cute for someone in the middle of a murder plan.

-Also new sprites! The DRDTdev gave Ace a redesign knowing full-well that it would only get a singular chapter of use, and I massively respect that. We already got some new sprites in part 2 of chapter 2 so far, and I'm guessing next episode he'll probably have at least one more breakdown sprite before he dies.

-For someone who no one in the cast liked, he's definitely going to leave an impact. He's finally made at least some of the cast realize what happens when they ignore the issues right in front of them. Ace shouts about how everyone hates him and sees him as an insufferable idiot? Eh, probably nothing, we don't have to worry about that. Sure, multiple people told him he's gonna die next in here, and he almost got murdered, but that won't amount to anything. What's he gonna do, murder someone--WAIT SHIT Ace step away from the Arei I repeat step away from the Arei-- (plus Teruko parallels). I'll probably go more in-depth about this sort of thing in a different post.

-WE NEVER GOT TO SEE WHAT'S UNDER HIS GLOVES. Kyoko and Mukuro both had hand-related secrets that connected them to the plot later on, does that mean Ace will have some sort of relevance to the mastermind or overall lore later on? Like a Mai tattoo situation? (Or maybe it's another thing that may be alluded to or discussed in the bonus episode)(Or left to interpretation but I hope not because I have so many theories).

If you have any more suggestions for other good Ace-related things the culprit reveal brought us, let me know and I can add them to the list! We need as many good things as we can think of right now...

[soren-apologist]

fallen ike and the chaos of lehran’s medallion

one of feh's strongest selling points as a concept has always been its ability to show a number of alternate universes and "what if?" situations, and among these fallen ike is something of a personal favorite of mine. getting to see ike fall under the influence of lehran's medallion in the same way his own father once did is such an interesting concept, and taking it from just a cipher card to an actual feh character with lines and a forging bonds support actually gave it a chance to be fleshed out. with feh’s new characterization of him, however, one thing has always stuck out to me: why is fallen ike so… sane?

…relatively sane, at least. on its own, fallen ike’s behavior is erratic and aggressive for how he himself normally acts, but when compared to most others who’ve come into contact with the medallion, it actually seems to be rather restrained and controlled in ways that are practically unheard of. so unheard of, in fact, that to really illustrate just how unusual ike’s behavior is, i’m going to go into depth on something i mentioned in the intro: the parallels between ike and greil.

to start with, tellius’ lore tells us that the chaotic energy of lehran’s medallion “magnifies the worst aspects of its holder a thousandfold” and casts upon them a madness only capable of being broken by having the medallion itself taken from their grasp. with that said, it’s fairly likely that the negative traits the chaotic energy is “magnifying a thousandfold” in both ike and greil are pretty similar considering just how often the two are compared. in fact, their shared traits of stubbornness, hotheadedness, and love of combat seem to shine through the most when in possession of the medallion. keeping all that in mind, their reactions to the spirit of chaos should be nearly identical, right?

…they’re not.

even though we never get to directly witness how greil behaves with the medallion, we do know that he was thrown into a crazed, berserk rage that had him on a violent rampage against anything he came across. this information seems to suggest that greil was completely out of it the entire time; after killing the assassins sent after him, he proceeded to mindlessly slaughter the townsfolk that had taken him and his family in, and eventually even the beloved wife he’d thrown away his entire previous life to protect. the fact he hires volke as an assassin and cripples his own arm afterwards definitely seems to further present the idea of greil being absolutely horrified by what had occured and likely having had little to no control over himself while it was actually happening.

in a stark contrast to greil’s madness, ike is surprisingly controlled and cognizant with the medallion; while he does tend to become more violent and unhinged on the battlefield, he otherwise can restrain himself enough to have conversations and seemingly exhibits some rational thought. in fact, ike even has a voice line where he asks the summoner to take him out if he loses control entirely, something greil was only ever able to ask of volke after he regained his sanity. meanwhile, ike is able to warn the people he loves most to keep a distance—

—and tells the summoner in his lvl 40 5* conversation that he intends to actually overcome the medallion's influence and use its power as a means of protecting those he cares about.

(the fact that the main thing ike wants with the medallion is just the ability to protect his loved ones actually makes me believe he may be using greil's story as a warning to himself to avoid losing control entirely, but that's not really relevant to what i'm getting at and is just something i happen to think is cool.)

despite all prior information seeming as if it should point towards the contrary, greil and ike’s reactions to the chaos of the medallion are practically polar opposites. going further, this contrast isn’t even exclusive to just the two of them; ike’s control over the medallion’s influence is bizarre compared to just about anyone who comes into its possession.

with that in mind, let’s pivot back to my original question: why does ike in particular handle it so well?

interestingly enough, ike himself has a theory for this—

—but i think it goes a little beyond that.

as you’re probably already aware of by this point, ike isn’t the only one in the family to have an “unusual” reaction to coming into contact with the medallion. the actual narrative of the tellius games establishes that elena happened to have a unique balance of order and chaos within her that allowed her to handle the medallion without consequence, something that would then be passed down to mist. we do know for absolute certain that ike lacks this total balance, but this finally leads into my kind-of crack theory about all this: ike inherited at least some of elena’s chaotic tolerance.

again, i’m not saying that ike has the same perfect balance of order and chaos as elena and mist, but i think the comparison of his reaction to the medallion to that of his parents’ may imply he’s somewhere in between the two— while greil had absolutely no control of himself and elena was entirely unaffected by the chaotic energy of the medallion, ike is susceptible to its influence but is generally capable of fighting through it regardless. ultimately, it’s possible that the combination of elena potentially passing down some of her tolerance to chaotic energy and her singing the galdr of release to ike as a child could offer a concrete reason for exactly how he manages to fight through the medallion’s influence so well.

-

at the end of the day, i don’t really know if this is genuinely the case. as far as we know the galdr alone could really just be what’s keeping him sane, but ike standing as a blend of traits from both of his parents instead of exclusively a carbon copy of his father is just such an interesting concept as a whole.