#henry-sauron parallels

[aemiron-main]

Saruman and Sauron vs Will Byers and Henry Creel and some s5 predictions (this is that lotr post i’ve been talking about)

It’s time for some will and saruman parallel thoughts & why I think will is going to witness his s1 vanishing from Henry’s pov in s5 via his bond with Henry and some other S5 plot thoughts!

I also have this writeup formatted in a google doc here. 

Introduction

So, to start off, this drawing from the show haunts me: why?

Because it’s a direct visual parallel of this scene:

Palantirs

Now, let’s take a closer look at that orb- ponder the orb, if you will. The orb that Saruman has isn’t just any old orb, it’s a palantir. But what is a palantir, and what does it do? How does it work? And how does all of that translate into Stranger Things?

There’s eight palantir in total, but only seven in Middle Earth specifically (i’ll get more into middle earth vs arda vs ea a little later on), and so they’re generally known as the ‘seven seeing-stones’. And there’s two main ones that I’m generally going to focus on in this analysis, although the others tie into it too: the one that Sauron has, and the one that Saruman has. So, what is a palantir and what does it do/how does it work and how does that tie to ST? Let’s look at some excerpts from the LOTR wiki to help explain: 

"The palantíri, in appearance, were dark, perfectly smooth spheres of varying sizes; some were small and portable, around a foot in diameter, while others (particularly the master-stones) were too enormous to be lifted by Men. They were completely unmarked or unmarred, and even when unseated, they remained inviolable. The stones had permanent poles aligned with the center of the earth, with permanent upper and nether poles. 

The circumferential faces were the ones that allowed viewing, receiving outside visions, and channeling them to the eye of the beholder on the opposite side; if one wished to look east, he would place himself on the western side of the orb, etc. Unlike the master stones, which could rotate and look in any direction, the smaller ones had fixed positions so that when looked at from a wrong direction, the face would appear blank to the surveyor. The palantíri could not transmit sound; they could only show visions or intended thoughts of the users.”

Will and Henry’s connection is like two master stones/master palantir communicating with eachother, as their connection goes both ways equally, Will is a double spy. The connection that Henry makes with somebody like Max, though? (Because Henry DOES make a psychic connection when he attacks). That connection is more like a master stone to a smaller stone. The smaller stone can still see into the mind of the master stone user, just like how Max could still access Henry’s mind, but only from the ‘right direction,’ in terms of smaller palantir, Max could only access Henry’s mind when Henry was making an active connection- max, on her own, cannot make a connection with henry/doesn’t have a two way connection with him outside of when he’s attacking her, which at that point, there is a small two-way connection, which is how max accesses vecna’s mindscape. Will, on the other hand, DOES. 

“In one direction, they could see for leagues, with the farthest places offering the least clarity. Their vision was not based on obstacles but on darkness; they could see through things but would only see shadow- nothing within could be discerned. This was a method of security which protected the sight of the surveyor. Magnification was also possible for those with an extraordinary will; only the most potent and determined could accomplish this. Palantíri could not pierce minds, for the transference of thought depended upon the wills and intentions of those communicating.”

“When two stones were communicating with each other, then another viewer from a third stone would find them blank. The master stones of north and south were able to 'eavesdrop' on these mental conversations, however. Some stones were attuned to each other, for example the Ithil-stone and the Anor-stone, as these belonged to the brothers Isildur and Anárion and were mounted in sister cities.”

‘The furthest places offering the least clarity,’ This ties into how Henry’s connection with Will is weaker when Will’s away from Hawkins/further away from Henry, just like how Will's now memories/connection to the mf/Henry in s2 became stronger as the tunnels expanded into hawkins/got physically closer to Will. 

“Their vision was not based on obstacles but on darkness; they could see through things but would only see shadow- nothing within could be discerned.”  Henry’s ‘vision’ is based on darkness-  he can’t get into the light memories unless he’s able to corrupt them, he can’t ‘see’ those memories, can’t access them unless he can corrupt them first, it’s like his corruption is the path for him to get into them, he can only ‘see in the dark’. 

HOWEVER, with that said, we also know that “Magnification was also possible for those with an extraordinary will; only the most potent and determined could accomplish this.” So, “magnification” in this context basically is the same as Henry corrupting light memories in order to enter them- someone of strong will can “magnify” the images of a palantir/see more clearly in the dark- Henry “magnifies”/is able to see into peoples’ light memories by using his psychic willpower/strength to corrupt their memories. 

“When two stones were communicating with each other, then another viewer from a third stone would find them blank. The master stones of north and south were able to 'eavesdrop' on these mental conversations, however.” THIS has some implications for Mike, actually. So, a third non-master stone/’eavesdropper’/outsider cannot hear what is being said between two other stones, but a master stone CAN. So, if El or Will was making/had made a psychic connection with somebody like Mike, somebody powerful like Henry would be able to eavesdrop on this connection. All of those shots where it’s almost like somebody’s watching Mike? And some of the evidence that Mike may be even partially ‘possessed’? That would align with Henry ‘eavesdropping’ onto a psychic connection that’s being created between Mike and El, for example.  So then, there’s a chance that via El or Will, Henry has gained access to Mike’s mind after eavesdropping on him throughout the seasons- and looking at Mike’s monologue, it’s interesting to me that they show closeups of him holding El’s hand, much like how El grabbed her mother’s hand and made a psychic connection with her. Henry may have used El’s connection with Mike as a sort of launching pad to make his own connection with Mike, whereas previously, he was just watching Mike through El or through Will.

Will and Henry’s connection (two master palantirs) allows them to see into eachother’s minds, but is so strong that they cannot see anything OTHER than eachother’s minds (and their own minds), and therefore, Henry cannot spy on Mike via Will bc he can only see Will’s mind, rather than see through Will’s eyes.

 With Henry and El, though, Henry can get into El’s mind and El into Henry’s, but bc Henry is more powerful, he can go beyond just her memories too, he’s not like. Locked into her memories the way his is with Will’s, and so he can use El as a minor palantir to be able to look thru her eyes and see Mike, whereas with Will, he can’t do that bc he’s locked into Will’s memories. This gives Henry greater access to Will and makes Will more susceptible to him than El is, but also gives Will a better chance of fighting him off bc Henry is in his memories he’s but he’s more LOCKED in there. 

This would also explain why Henry wanted to possess Will via the MF- when Will was possessed, their connection acted more like a major palantir to minor palantir/more like a more powerful verson of Henry and El’s connection, because Henry was now able to see through Will’s eyes & wasn’t locked into Will’s mind/memories. This is also why we get the “now memories” when Will’s possessed but not so much in s4- because Will was seeing through Henry’s eyes in s2 just like how Henry was able to see thru his, rather than being locked into eachother’s memories/mindscape. Will was still a spy/double agent when possessed, but he was actually MORE of a double agent when not possessed (his connection w henry predates his possession) because Henry is the one dominating the connection when Will is possessed, which is why Will doesn’t see henry’s mindscape, but instead, sees the visions of the tunnels, because that’s what Henry’s choosing to show him, which is something I’m going to talk about next, because people using palantirs cannot create false images but rather, pick and choose what images/part of their mind they're going to show to the other user. The ability to do this depends on the mental strength of the user & user’s ability to dominate that connection, which is the same as how Henry and El’s powers work: they’re trying to dominate the connection when they psychically fight eachother and launch eachother across rooms. 

“According to Gandalf, it is beyond Sauron and Saruman's skill to create the palantíri and that Sauron cannot make the palantíri "lie" or create false images (though the latter could show selective images to foster a false impression in the viewer). The palantíri were not initially inherently dangerous to use, however after the Ithil-stone was captured by Sauron in TA 2002 they were no longer used by Gondor's rulers, as users could be ensnared by the Dark Lord, as later events were to show.”

Just like somebody using a palantir, Vecna/Henry can hide parts of his memories, he can manipulate people like Will’s perception of events, but he can’t create entirely false/new memories, especially not when it comes to somebody viewing HIS memories, he can hide parts of his own memories to make the person (Will) viewing his memories confused/warp his perception based on a lack of context/lack of memories (much like El with Nina & how she didn’t have ‘new’/wrong memories, but instead, was MISSING part of her memories, and those missing memories warped her perception and made her believe that she killed the kids). The memories aren’t entirely gone, and new memories haven’t taken their place- instead, some of the memories are missing, which results in a warped perception of events. Henry literally describes his own powers in the same way: as ‘holding a mirror’ up to his victims. His visions/attacks aren’t just creating random false images for the sake of torment, instead, it’s based on the victims’ trauma and guilt and personal experiences. It’s not technically a lie, just a warped version of the truth. 

And as well, with palantirs, this ties into Will’s s2 episodes BEFORE he got possessed- because those visions are NOT the same as now memories. Like I said, with a palantir, you cannot create false memories to show the person on the other side of the connection- but you CAN, if you are powerful enough, (which Henry generally IS), pick and choose which memories/parts of your mind you want them to see.

Which is how Sauron manipulates people without outright lying- he distorts the truth, just like how Henry holds a mirror up to people. Sauron hid parts of his own memories to try and convince Denethor that Sauron had already won. Just like how Henry hides parts of his mind/memories to try and convince Nancy and El etc that he has already won

And so, wills s2 visions (not the now-memories): those tie into the palantirs because they weren’t fake, vecna didn’t just make up smthn random for him to see bc Henry can’t do that- instead, Henry was picking and choosing what parts of Henry’s mind Will could see, even tho henry and Will were still trapped in eachother's minds so to speak, henry bc he was more powerful, was able to HIDE parts of his mind.

Non possessed Will’s connection w henry = two master palantirs communicating

Possessed Will’s connection w henry = major and minor palantir, more like el’s or max’s connection w henry, henry is now the one dominating the connection & is able to see through will’s eyes more, but the two-way connection is still there (will’s now memories of the tunnels), just like how a two way connection IS still there with a major and minor palantir, but the connection is dominated by the major one & henry is more able to manipulate which memories will is seeing compared to will being able to manipulate what henry is seeing. 

“Denethor II, the last Ruling Steward of Gondor, attempted to use the stone in his later years to gain knowledge, but too often only saw what Sauron wished him to. Sauron convinced Denethor over time that there was no hope for victory.”

This sounds a LOT like not only Henry’s visions to people, but the vision that he showed to Nancy specifically, trying to make her feel as if all hope was lost, showing her images of her family dead and of a giant, dragon-like beast. Sauron didn’t create fake images via the palantir, because he can’t do that- instead, he choose which images/real memories to show Denethor & hid certain ones so that it seemed like Sauron was winning. And also: denethor as a person is weaker than sauron, so he’s unable to see past sauron’s manipulation/perspective warping/hiding stuff. But when it comes to will and henry, it’s likely that will WOULD be able to see past that at this point. 

SO! Long story sport, Will’s orb in the drawing is paralleled directly to the palantir, it’s a visual representation of his two-way connection with Henry, of being a double spy, of him and Henry being able to see into eachother’s minds. Time to shift away from palantir briefly, but we WILL come back to them. 

Some Backstory About Sauron, Saruman, and Morgoth

In a later section, I’m going to do a deeper dive into the bond between Sauron and Saruman, because imo it’s a misconception that Saruman just sort of chose to work for Sauron, or that the Palantir is entirely what convinced Saruman to join Sauron, and it’s actually a more complex bond than that,

So, to begin with some backstory to set the stage for discussing Sauron and Saruman’s bond later on: Sauron is not the biggest big bad of Tolkien’s universe (I’m not saying ‘’middle earth,’ because Tolkien’s world goes beyond Middle Earth into Valinor, and Valinor is where a lot of this took place: the in-canon name for “Tolkien’s universe”, is Eä, and the ‘earth’ itself, including Valinor and Middle Earth is Arda- Middle Earth and Valinor are like continents on Arda and Arda is like a planet in Eä if that makes sense), instead, that title belongs to a dude named Morgoth. Sauron and Morgoth are not the same sort of “creature”/entity/being/species, but Sauron and Saruman ARE. 

Morgoth = Valar

Sauron = Maiar (Maiar of Aule)

Saruman = Maiar (Maiar of Aule)

Now, Morgoth isn’t super relevant right now, however, I’m going to use him to explain what a Valar is & why that’s relevant to setting with the stage for how Will and Henry parallel Saruman and Sauron. So, Valar are basically like the pantheon of “gods” of Eä, and groups of Maiar are associated with each Valar. And “Aule” is a Valar just like Morgoth (except not evil), and both Sauron and Saruman are Maiar of Aule, whereas Radagast for example, is a Maiar of Yavanna. So, not only are Sauron and Saruman both Maiar, they’re Maiar of Aule. Maiar and Valar are, again, different species, whereas being a Maiar of Aule is almost like being the same ‘race’.

Why is this relevant to ST? Henry and Will are both humans, just like how both Sauron and Saruman are both Maiar, but it goes deeper than that, because just like how both Sauron and Saruman are Maiar of Aule specifically, Will and Henry have very similar/paralleled backstories and queercoding. 

Parallels Between Sauron and Henry Creel

Sauron, just like Henry, was not always evil- just as Henry was a normal human with powers at one point, Sauron was a normal maiar with powers. However, much like the way that Brenner manipulated & ‘’’trained’’’ Henry, Morgoth did something very similar with Sauron when getting Sauron to join him. 

Sauron’s ‘fair form,’ known as Annatar, is VERY similar to how we see Henry looking younger and more attractive in S4 during the Nina project memories, and Sauron used this handsome mortal form to charm and manipulate people. 

Sauron’s shapeshifting abilities vs Henry’s: we see Henry shapeshifting in peoples’ visions when he attacks them, like when Max thinks that she’s hugging her mom but it’s actually Henry. Plus, there’s quite a bit of evidence that I’ve talked about in other posts pointing to the idea that the S1 ‘demogorgon’ that took Will & that El fought in the school was actually Henry. Sauron is also capable of shapeshifting in very similar way to Henry. 

Sauron being known for manipulation and deceit, just like how henry manipulates people like el 

Vecna in DND has a phylactery to store his soul in- the one ring is sauron’s phylactery. Sauron literally poured part of his soul into it, the worst/cruelest part of his soul. 

The one ring works in a very similar way not only to a phylactery but also to henry’s powers: henry describes his powers as ‘holding a mirror up to people,’ and amplifying their worst trauma/guilt. Henry doesn’t just create *random* horrifying images, instead, it’s based on amplifying the existing emotions and bad memories of his victims and making them face their own traits. The one ring is basically identical in terms of how it works: it doesnt just ‘make people invisible or evil,’ instead, it amplifies the existing powers and qualities of the user, for good or for bad, it’s like holding a mirror up to the wearer and reflecting their good and bad qualities right back at them and magnifying them. This is why bilbo and frodo turn invisible when they put it on- hobbits are sneaky and are described as figuratively being ‘invisible’ to the ‘big folk’- so, the ring amplifies this and makes them literally invisible. 

There’s very very likely more parallels, but for right now, these are the ones i’m using!

The Parallels Between Saruman and Will Byers

The visual parallels between Will’s drawing of Will the Wise with the orb vs the LOTR Saruman scene with the palantir

Will’s wizard name/title is “Will the Wise,” just like how Saruman’s was “Saruman the Wise”.

“Saruman of Many Colours”. This was Saruman’s new title, and reminds me of the rainbow imagery with Will, including his rainbow ship. 

Being a double agent/a spy: Saruman was a double-agent for Sauron vs for the Istari wizards & frequently did whatever was best for his own personal interests. This parallels ill being described as a spy/having a two-way spy connection with Henry/the mindflayer. 

Saruman being a Maiar, which means that he exists in two dimensions at once at all times (smthn im going to elaborate on/explain later), and Will’s s2 UD episodes and the way that he’s physically moving in the UD and real world in the same way at the same time, literally existing in two dimensions at once. 

Having a connection with Sauron via a master palantir, but it was a connection dominated by sauron due to sauron’s strength/power and manipulation of what images saruman was seeing, much like Henry’s connection with Will

There’s very very likely more parallels, but for right now, these are the ones i’m using!

The Connection/History Between Sauron and Saruman and the Ties of This Connection/History to Henry and Will’s Connection/History

SO! Saruman and Sauron were both maiar of Aule living in Valinor. Just like how there’s all the Will-Henry parallels and Henry very likely targeted Will because he reminds Henry of himself, part of why saruman joined sauron is the same reason, with them both being powerful Maiar of Aule, who had a love of creating things Saruman, as Maia of Aule, was always going to be in danger turning evil- maiar of aule are not inherently evil by any stretch, but instead often have qualities, such as a love of smithing jewelry or weapons/general love of creation, that allow them to be more swayed towards evil/greed/possessiveness. Saruman didn’t ‘turn evil’ because Sauron turned evil but because of the same reasons Sauron turned evil (ie, henry trying to get will to join him bc theyre both similar). 

In the book “Peoples of Middle-Earth,” there’s an essay titled “Istari’, which talks about how Aule chose Saruman as the leader of the istari, and how this show that Aule seemed to believe that Saruman was capable of rivalling/challenging sauron/that they were similar in power and in nature and in backstory and in terms of their traits and how Saruman was the one to drive Sauron out of Dol Guldur initially. Sauron was the most powerful maiar before he ‘turned evil,’ and so then when sauron left, saruman was now the most powerful. They’re paralleled to eachother, much like Will and Henry, they have many similarities, but are not exactly the same. 

Saruman ended up alongside Sauron because of the shared traits/abilities/parallels/similarities between the two of them, just like how Will was likely targeted by Henry because of their shared traits/upbringing/queerness/parallels/powers. However, Saruman is also still a double agent in LOTR. He’s not fully on the side of Sauron, but also not fully on the side of the Istari,, he wasn’t fully swayed, instead, was a double agent trying to fulfill his own goals. 

“When Saruman used the Orthanc-stone, Sauron convinced him to join him.”

This excerpt from the LOTR wiki is true to an extent but doesn’t tell the full story & frames it as if the palantir was the majority of the reason sauron joined saruman but in reality, it was the underlying similarities between sauron and saruman that made saruman more susceptible to being influenced by sauron via the palantir in the first place- plus, despite siding with sauron during a portion of lotr, sauron is still very much portrayed as a double-agent/’morally grey’. Saruman’s similarities to sauron are exactly what sauron exploited via the palantir to attempt to get saruman to join him, much like how in s5, Henry is likely going to try and exploit the similarities between will and try to get will to join him, which is going to tie into my idea that will is going to witness his s1 vanishing from henry’s pov via his connection with Henry. 

And this is where things get interesting imo & comes full circle back to what I talked about in the beginning with the palantir & why I think that Will’s going to witness his own vanishing/time in the UD from Henry’s POV via his two-way connection with Henry, and why IMO, Will has repressed memories of those events, but in spite of that, is still 100% certain and right that Henry is the one who took him. So, let’s look at a Tolkien quote:

“For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had need to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly."

Now, what does this actually mean, and what implications does it have for Will and his connection to Henry? Well, this is basically Tolkien’s way of saying ‘repressed memories’. Saruman is aware of the similarities between him and Sauron that eventually lead him to be swayed by Sauron in LOTR in the sense that he’s aware of the existence/results of sauron’s traits but not really the details, and when Tolkien talks about ‘embodied,’ he’s talking about when Maiar, like Saruman, take on a more tangible physical form (because theyre more like spirits), which is why Saruman looks like an old man in LOTR. So, after Saruman got that body and came to middle earth from valinor, his memories of Valinor were repressed. 

“the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off” The memory isn’t gone, it’s  just too far to access- they haven’t fully forgotten the Blessed Realm/Valinor, but they can’t fully access those memories, their perception of it is warped, much like will’s perception of the night he vanished. 

And here’s another interesting part of that, too: “(so long as they remained true to their mission)“. Why is this interesting? Because Saruman didn’t remain true to his mission. He’s going to have even more repressed memories than somebody like Gandalf, because Gandalf’s memories are far-off, but not gone, as long as Gandalf remains true to his mission- but Saruman doesn’t remain true to his mission in the end, so he’s also going to begin to lose those far-off memories as he strays more and more from his mission. 

“the Istari had need to learn much anew by slow experience “ this is basically exactly what El did with Nina, she was learning to walk again/swim, just like Brenner described, and Will is going to do the same thing in s5 IMO, but in a slightly different way: he’s going to witness his vanishing through Henry’s eyes, because Will’s own perception was so warped that night due to him likely being in a Vecna vision, and so Will is missing memories/has repressed memories in the sense that what was actually happening to him/around him is different than what he was seeing, different than much of what the AUDIENCE saw that night.

 But he doesn’t fully properly remember the events- his perception is warped via the fact that parts of his memory are repressed, and so he’s not seeing the full story, which warps his perception, just like El with Nina & thinking she killed the kids & how her missing memories warped her perception. 

“and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off”. The “and though they knew whence they came'' part is interesting to me as well, because it’s just like Will and his warped perception/possible repressed memories- he knows “from whence he came,” he knows that he was in the UD, but doesn’t really remember what the UD was like (in a way), like i don’t mean he doesnt have trauma from it/doesnt remember at all, I mean that his perception/memory of it has been warped. He knows he was there, but struggles to really know what ‘there’ was like and what was a vecna vision and what wasn’t. But just like Saruman knows that he has a connection to sauron via their shared traits and both being maiar of aule, Will KNOWS that henry is the one who took him/who he has a connection with. And here’s a VERY important part- Istari, like Saruman, have repressed their memories of their time in Valinor/have a warped perception of it, but Sauron does not. Saruman and Sauron are both Maiar, and both Maiar of Aule at that, but they are NOT both Istari, and only the Istari lost those memories. The wizards in LOTR (Gandalf, Radagast, Saruman, Pallando, and Alatar), are all Maiar and also all Istari/wizards. Maiar is a species, Istari is like a cross between a race and a club in a weird way. All Istari are Maiar, but not all Maiar are Istari- and Sauron specifically is NOT one of the Istari. Sauron didn’t ‘embody’ a body in the same way that Saruman did, Sauron isn’t stuck to that one form the same way that Saruman is. Saruman does not fully remember the similarities between him and Sauron/how Sauron was in valinor. But Sauron fully remembers these things, and THAT is the core thing. So, hypothetically, Saruman could, through a master palantir, gain access to sauron’s mind/memories and possibly witness his own repressed memories from sauron’s pov. 

And so, something similar is likely going to happen with Will and Henry: Just like how  in theory, if Saruman was strong/powerful enough, Saruman would be able to use a palantir to see Sauron’s memories of Saruman/of Valinor, (which is paralleled to Will’s vanishing), Will is going to use his connection with Henry to find out what really happened that night & is going to see it through Henry’s eyes, which is going to be how all of the weirdness and perspective fuckery from s1 ep/will’s vanishing is resolved both for Will AND the audience. 

There’s also something else I want to talk about: 

“And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power."

This quote is about Elves on the surface, but this and other passages confirms that Saruman lives in  both realms at once. The Blessed Realm/Valinor is where all maiar are from. Saruman has 100% dwelt in it, it’s where he lived prior to coming to Middle Earth. Saruman, being a Maiar/from the Blessed Realm, means that he exists in two realms at once- the physical world and the spirit world. He’s not just able to travel between them- no, specifically, he exists in both at once, JUST like Will in his s2 visions where he was running physically in the real world AND in the UD- he was in two realms at once, stuck between the slides. As well, I mentioned this earlier, but sauron is pointed out repeatedly to be considered a ‘morally grey’/double agent character: he’s in the middle, he’s between things, and will’s double-agent imagery is also tied to him being like a ‘double agent’ between dimensions, able to be in both of them at once. 

Conclusion/Summary/Reiterating the Implications That All of This Has for S5

Will is going to witness the night that he vanished from Henry’s pov, just like how Saruman, in theory could witness his own repressed memories via sauron’s pov through a palantir (palantirs being representative of the connection between will and henry)

Mike is likely being watched by Henry/Henry has possibly already been messing with his mind or at the very least watching him/possibly made a connection with mike’s mind during the monologue, which would explain those shots of mike being ‘watched’ and explain a lot of things that @dinitride-art​ has talked about with possessiongate

Will is able to go between dimensions/more SPECIFICALLY, he is able to exist and function in two realms/dimensions at once, which is something that I’ve posted about before & am going to elaborate on in my vanishing of will byers analysis.

[louisetaylor]

Where Are My Mutuals?

I've been on Tumblr for two years and barely connect with anyone. It's time for a change. In a vain attempt to connect with people, I shall list my interests. I have too many to fit in one post, so here's Volume One: Classic Literature. Stay tuned for more. Do not adjust your set. Make Tumblr Interactive Again.

Lord of the Rings. (currently working on a "sauron gets the ring" AU with my nerd brother but that's another story) I would die for Pippin. Also for Frodo. Eowyn and Faramir are one of my favorite ships. Also Aragorn/Arwen and their parallels to Beren/Luthien. (Tolkien feels like a beloved character himself because of his own beautiful love story with Edith and all the mischief he got up to with CS Lewis.) Can't remember if I've finished the Silmarillion but I should someday.

Which brings me to mythology! I (metaphorically) burned through most of the mythology section in the children's library as a kid. I'd like to know more about Native American myths from my region someday.

Greek myths: Eros and Psyche. Persephone and Hades of course. Orpheus and Eurydice. (I know most of the lyrics to Hadestown.) LOVE Prometheus. (And many other Christ figures, including but not limited to Jesus.) Pygmalion/Galatea has some nice potential for stories but I haven't thought about it much. Endymion/Selene is a beautiful story.

Norse: I'm not as into Norse myth but Neil Gaiman's obsession with Odin makes me go "all right, he's cool." Loki (myth Loki is a separate character from Movie Loki) is redheaded and dangerous and tricky and beautiful. Anything Loki or Odin does interests me. The other gods, not so much.

Celtic: I can't remember that many but I liked Cuchulainn, the Morrigan, and anything about the Tuatha de Danann and Tir-na-nOg. Their myths and gods mostly descended into fairy tales and fairies under Christianity, so I also like the stories of the Sidhe and their kidnappings and magic.

Fairy tales. I also burned through most of the fairy tale section as a kid. (NOT LITERALLY.) I liked all the different Cinderella stories, and Rapunzel, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Snow White, Red Riding Hood, and anything else pretty or bloody. Grimm's Fairy Tales are hit or miss because the moralizing sometimes outweighs the drama.

Shakespeare. Oh Boy. Hamlet (I could fill a notebook with theories on Ophelia and ideas of how to play her), Much Ado About Nothing (I'm told I could play a good Beatrice...if I knew how to act, that is), Romeo and Juliet (as glorious to this night as angels are unto the white-upturned wondering eyes of mortals that fall back to gaze on them), Henry V (but only if he's played by Tom Hiddleston), Twelfth Night, Midsummer Night's Dream, Macbeth (I didn't say it, I wrote it, don't @ me). I go to a Shakespeare play every year on my birthday. So far I've seen Midsummer Night's Dream, Twelfth Night, and As You Like It. This year I'll see Much Ado.

The King Arthur legends. Recently read John Steinbeck's version. I like all the magic women. Morgan, Morgause, the Lady of the Lake, Nyneve. The Sword in the Stone by TH White is wonderful.

[erikiara80]

I was watching the scene of Henry and The MindFlayer and there's something really strange with one of Henry's eyes. Maybe it's an eye of Vecna's forshadowing. What do you think?

Ciao, anon. Yes, I noticed. Eddie mentioned in 4x01 that Vecna misses his left hands and left eye, although it's Henry's right eye that looks different. Stranger Things is not D&D, of course, but if they mentioned the Hand and the Eye, maybe they'll use them somehow. Did you notice that Vecna's left hand also looks different, like a Demogorgon claw? I wonder if it was just part of his transformation, or if Henry actually lost his left hand at some point between the shaping of the Mind Flayer and when we see him in S4, and he grew a new monstrous one. The Eye and the Hand are powerful artifacts and give you very interesting powers.

For example, the Eye gives you Truesight, Clairvoyance, Dominate Monster... I have a theory about Vecna's Eye. That it's not really an eye (Vecna still has both of them) but whatever he put in Will's neck. If he did, of course. The Soteria, or a little piece of the UD that created a connection between him and Will when Will was intubated and had Dart growing inside him. That would make him a sort of Horcrux. And that's why Will can feel him, with or without his powers. It could also be a parallel with the Ring of Power. We know the Duffers took inspiration from both HP and LOTR. When El removes the Soteria from Henry's neck, he basically quotes Boromir, saying that something so small has caused so much trouble. The Ring connects you to Sauron. If you puts on it you can see the Shadow Realm. Sauron's famous line in the movies: I See You. And his form: an Eye.

So, if Henry/the UD really did something to Will in S1 after the Demogorgon got him at Castle Byers, maybe he/it created a connection and that made it possible for Henry to possess Will, both physically and mentally. Maybe this is the Stranger Things version of the Eye of Vecna. I could be wrong, but I would like it.

[archive2394934]

I want to state that I absolutely love your account and your points. I’m a big fan of analysis especially with fictional tragic characters. And yes Henry isn’t a perfect person by any means, but he deserved a lot better and I hope when we learn more about his backstory we understand him even more. It’s also nice to see more people acknowledge that Henry did not create the Mindflayer. Personally I think the flayer let Henry form it the way he did and is using him. Plus there are also a lot of similarities that I noticed when rewatching the Lotr recently and Stranger Things (hell Lord of the Rings was referenced in season four). I feel like Henry is a combination of two characters, Saruman and Sméagol/Gollum and the MF is I guess the “Sauron” or the dark/evil force. I plan on doing LONG post in the future that explains this in a deeper way with pictures. But like there are a lot of references specifically with Sméagol. Both were corrupted mentally and physically by a dark force, both were casted out by said families, both were captured, abused, and isolated, both of them formed a “bond” with a spider, and both sought companionship with someone who understood them who would end up denying them. YES the circumstances and affects are different for sure, but both of them are tragic villain characters who were victims of their circumstances and how they were treated by those around them. (I know this is a lot, but when I rewatch Stranger Things and Lord of the Rings it gives me ideas 😭 and I wanted to share this with someone who analyzes Henry Creel more than just being a villain but a character that is super complexed).

🥺Omg thank you so much! I'm glad for that. Also thank you for sharing that, that is actually REALLY interesting. I see this fandom talk about things like LOR, and Horry Pooter and Star Wars and like parallels they find with characters and stories and I just have to sit and nod because I'm a fake nerd and those are the 3 franchises in nerddom I don't know anything about (insert your favs would hate you post and its the whole party + eddie @ me) so I can't really comment on them but yeah its always so INTERESTING reading posts about it and how it relates to ST. I know all the horror inpos, cos I'm a horror fanatic, and I also know most of the comic book inpos but yeah the actual fantasy adventure type inspos are the ones I'm NOT that familiar with--- at least not the bigger, most recognizable ones. Because I do know Legend somewhat and I'm pretty sure Legend has a relevancy to ST as well but I haven't watched it since I was a kid so I want to rewatch it and then maybe make a post about it in the future (if I can be bothered jdfkkdf) But yeah! I'd love to read your thing if/when you get round to making it! And I def agree, I feel the mind flayer is absolutely bigger than the fandom currently wants to give it credit for (Though I cant even begin to fathom why its so majority to completely refuse that idea). All the scenes and things I've pointed out would make no sense otherwise. And I think its extremely interesting how almost every one of the inspirations used to make Vecna as a character are characters who SERVE or are influenced by some type of evil entity as opposed to just being the actual or 'soul' big bad themselves. Plus Vecna from DnD has The Serpent and similarities between The Serpent and the MF from what is suggested in canon are uncanny. I also def think the MF probably kinda "coached" Henry into choosing that particular shape for it. It would explain Henry's weirdly accurate childhood drawing. Like I might think otherwise if Henry just drew that 'spider-shape' but the way he put such effort into depicting it as true to life as possible and for that drawing to turn out so realistic to how the MF actually did end up looking down to the 'texture' of it ... That just feels odd. Putting that with all the other little weird things in Henry and Victor's flashback it does add up pretty well!

[imthecleric]

ooc: all im saying is that the original four party members are all coded to all the members of the fellowship save for boromir... also for shits and giggles here is who i think the others are also paralleled to

will - frodo and gandalf

mike - sam and aragorn

dustin - pippin and gimli

lucas - merry and legolas

max - eowyn

el - arwen or galadriel

henry - sarumon

shadow monster - sauron

i will say i do think their is more to the shadow monster than just being henry as it is not only older than henry but moulded by him likely forcefully... ANYWAYS that is to say henry and the shadow monster have the ability to switch

[aemiron-main]

ST Movie Parallel Posts

ST vs Tommy (1975)

Henry’s Shattered Mirror Scene Is A Direct Tommy Parallel (x)

The Creels’ Stained Glass Door vs The Stained Glass Door In Tommy (x)

The First Shadow and Tommy (x)

Mike’s Hair and Costume Being Inspired By Pete Townshend From The Who (x)

Will and Tommy and Mirrors and S2 Episodes/Visions (x)

More ST vs Tommy Parallels (x)

Nora Walker, Virginia Creel, and Gaslighting (x)

ST vs Silent Hill (2006)

Initial Vecna and Alessa Parallel (x)

Burnt Alessa vs Vecna Design Parallel (x)

ST vs The Changeling (1980)

Initial Post About The Wheelchair In The Creel Attic Vs The Wheelchair In The Attic In The Changeling (x)

ST vs LOTR

The Shadow(s) of The Past and TFS vs LOTR (x)

I’d Say You're Asking Me to Follow You Into Mordor: Eddie Munson, Mordor, Edward Creel, and March 22nd (x)

Sauron vs Saruman and Henry Creel vs Will Byers and Will Being Directly Paralleled To Saruman (x)

Birthdaygate, March 22nd and LOTR (x)

Mount Doom vs The Cracks of Doom vs The UD Cracks (x)

The Mount Doom-Esque Volcano Photo With Scott and The Party (x)

Initial Post About 001 vs Annatar (x)

Another Post About Will and Saruman and Saruman of Many Colours (x)

Demobats Are Totally Based On Fellbeasts (x)

ST vs The Hobbit Movies

Thrain and Victor Parallels and The Keyhole On The Grandfather Clock (x)

[aemiron-main]

btw Henry’s 1979 blonde lab look is literally annatar from tolkien/lotr, sauron’s “fair form.” Henry is DEEPLY EXTREMELY paralleled to sauron in every way, including this.

[aemiron-main]

Victor vs Thrain

Reminder that all of the hobbit movies are on the s4 board. I’m going to do a full analysis of the hobbit movies vs st at some point (esp since henry’s monologue is DEFINITELY inspired by thranduil’s speeches), but for right now, I want to talk about Thrain vs Victor. 

So, who the hell is Thrain? Thrain is Thorin Oakenshield’s father. And let’s look at some key info about him from the LOTR wiki:

“Many years later, Thráin grew older, and he became restless, fed by the Ring of Power in his possession. His desire to reclaim his kingdom of the Lonely Mountain grew. In TA 2841, he and a group of followers, including Balin and Dwalin, left their dwelling in the Blue Mountains and journeyed into Wilderland. The servants of Sauron pursued them, and one morning in TA 2845, in the eaves of Mirkwood, his companions awoke to find that Thráin was missing. 

They searched in vain for him for days, but he could not be found at all. It was later learned that he had been captured and imprisoned in the pits of Sauron's stronghold of Dol Guldur in southern Mirkwood. There he was tortured, and Sauron took from him the last of the Dwarven Rings of Power and left him there to die.

Before Thráin's death – while on a mission to Dol Guldur – Gandalf the Grey came upon Thráin and was given the map and key made by his father, Thrór. Thráin appeared so diminished that he had forgotten almost everything, including his name. Gandalf promised to deliver it to Thorin but could not confirm that this Dwarf was, in fact, Thráin due to Thráin's loss of memory. There he died.”

Let’s look at some of the parallels between Thrain and Victor: 

Thrain was found in Mirkwood, lacking his memory.

Victor was found wandering along Highway 49, near the Hawkins Mirkwood road, lacking his memory and fine motor skills.

Thrain was tortured by Sauron for information about his son, and the map, and the key. 

Victor was likely tortured/interrogated/drugged/electrocuted by the lab, resulting in his loss of memory and fine motor skills. 

Thrain had a map and key that he wanted Gandalf to give to his son.

Regarding Victor, I’m staring at all of the CONSTANT key imagery with the Creels, right down to Robin’s keyhole jacket. 

I’m also staring at the grandfather clock, which would need a key to be opened- and if someone was to reset the clock, after Henry/Edward turned it backwards, they would need the key (see the little keyhole?)

 And if we expand that idea, justt like how someone would need a literal key to fix the clock, if somebody wanted to fix the timeline/time, they’d need the figurative key.  And Victor is likely the one with one of those keys, either the literal or figurative one, or both. 

As well, in the Hobbit movies,  while Gandalf and Thrain attempt to escape Dol Guldur/Southern Mirkwood  Thráin talks about Smaug and Sauron working together, but specifically refers to Sauron as “The One,” which is interesting considering all of the Henry/Edward/001 stuff. 

As well, before Thrain dies, he  tells Gandalf to tell his son (Thorin), that he loves him, and then Thrain is killed by The Necromancer (Sauron)’s shadow tendrils (staring at both the MF and the UD tendrils.)

I’m not sure how these parts connect to Victor yet, aside from Victor loving Henry, which we already know, but there’s something rattling about it.

[aemiron-main]

henry is equally, and probably MORE frodo paralleled than will, but i think st tumblr may not be ready for that discussion yet.

i’m NOT removing will’s frodo coding or disputing it. however henry has so damn much of it and victor also has direct bilbo parallels. one day i will finish the post in my drafts about all this bc henry’s frodo coding is There

henward also has sauron/annatar/mairon parallels (and other lotr characters too) but most st characters are paralleled to multiple lotr characters, including will, who has super direct saruman parallels (like his will the wise art is literally just a redraw of a shot of saruman from the lotr movies)

[aemiron-main]

THE VOID!!!!

me having realizations about the void in lotr vs the void that el etc goes into in st. this isnt my big lotr post i was talking about but this hit me like a brick so i Needed to write it.  thinking about the door in the void with el and heather in st. thinking about all the door imagery in st. thinking about the “door of night” from lotr which is described as a portal that leads into the void. 

not only does the door of night lead to the void, though- it’s also the way that the sun left the world every night so that night would fall on Arda. smthn smthn will and sun imagery and yellow and light smthn smthn will is associated with a lot of door imagery in st.  it’s also the gateway through which morgoth was banished into the void. but there’s more than that, even: all of the ocean and sea imagery and water imagery in ‘when it’s cold i’d like to die’ etc? Well, there was this dude, Earendil, and his ship was taken through the door and lifted into what’s described as the the “oceans” of the void. 

smthn smthn the st void. smthn smthn the water on the floor of the void. smthn smthn all of the water imagery in st and lack of water in the st. smthn smthn in lotr/tolkien, the void is described with ocean imagery. 

smthn smthn ‘cold’ and ‘water’ imagery are tied together constantly in st, with the bathtub scene and with ‘when it’s cold i’d like to die’ etc. smthn smthn the ‘walls of the world’ in tolkien (the door is built into those walls) are made of ice, and are freezing cold, and surrounding them is Vaiya, which is a “dark ocean,” and beyond them is the void, which is also described with ocean imagery- vaiya and the void mirror eachother and the way Vaiya is described sometimes even seems to cause overlap between the two: 

“About the World are the Ilurambar, or Walls of the World. They are as ice and glass and steel, being above all the imagination of the Children of Earth cold, transparent, and hard. They cannot be seen, nor can they be passed, save by the Door of Night. Within these walls the Earth is globed: above, below and upon all sides is Vaiya, the Enfolding Ocean. But this is more like to sea below the Earth and more like to air above the Earth.”

smthn smthn sauron (who henry is VERY VERY paralleled to) ends up in the void after his death, partially because his soul and power can no longer regoup due to the destruction of the one ring- and im gonna make a separate post abt this at some point, but the one ring acts as phylactery for sauron, and vecna in dnd also has a phylactery, AND the one ring & how it actually works is fundamentally identical to how henry’s powers work. 

im not sure how all this fits in yet but. hmmmmmmmmmmm. void and ocean and water imagery in st and lotr. 

[aemiron-main]

@wibble-wobbegong i am half awake and im putting this here so i dont forget bc i saw one of ur posts about max and mike briefly and smthn abt mike getting stuck into the ud and i might be totally off base and looking WAY too deep into shit but. mike and max might actually also parallel two of my favourite silmarillion characters, Maglor and Maedhros- those two even have the same hair colours as mike and max And similar personalities.

however im having trouble figuring out who is who. maedhros has red hair, yes, but his death is a self-sacrificial active suicide where he jumps into a pit of fire and then is sentenced to the Everlasting Darkness in death until the oath he took is fulfilled by somebody else which ties more into mike imo whereas maglor is doomed to roam the shores of middle earth basically for eternity. maedhros is more openly snarky than maglor, but maglor is more passive aggressive imo.

maedhros is also described as having been 'reborn' after he was captured by sauron (much like max being attacked by henry and then being trapped even after el revives her). however, maedhros ALSO loses a hand, which makes me think of mike losing an arm in the s3 dnd game. Im also staring at mike and ‘hellfire club’ and him being burnt when jason lights the hellfire picture on fire & how maedhros cast himself into a chasm of flame.

but heres where it gets even weirder: maglor and ARWEN parallel eachother too. they essentially have a very similar fate although for different reasons. arwen is a half-elf and therefore can choose a mortal fate, which means that a.) she will have to wander the shores of middle earth until she dies eventually and b.) she will not pass into the halls of mandos in death and instead will face the 'fate of men' which is generally mysterious. Maglor, on the other hand, did not fulfill his oath (just like maedhros), and so, will be sent to the Everlasting Darkness when he dies (just like arwen he isnt getting the ‘right’ afterlife), but in the meantime, still wanders the shores of middle earth.

this is beginning to smell like 'mike gets stuck in the ud'. OR 'max is stuck in the ud/void for the next while'. im leaning towards max almost, because while mike has arwen parallels, the max-arwen parallels are more blatant.

and here's the thing: i know that st seems to reference lotr more than the silmarillion, but maedhros and maglor are some of the ONLY silmarillion-only characters who are still very directly tied to LOTR, as maedhros and maglor raised Elrond together, and Elrond's knowledge of Maglor's fate is what causes him to fear arwen suffering the same fate. so maglor and arwen are paralleled, and maglor is also technically arwen's 'adoptive' grandfather. So somebody like the duffers/the st team, who are DEFINITELY lotr fans, are VERY likely aware of maedhros and maglor, it’s not like maedhros and maglor are some niche characters from the corners of the silmarillion.

SO! I'm not sure if Max is Maedhros or if Mike is Maedhros or same with who is Maglor, but they could also be mix and matching elements of both of them for each of them.

and like. im thinking about all of the 'deal' imagery with running up that hill and 'making a deal with god' because thats LITERALLY what maedhros and maglor did. The gods of tolkien (the valar) are literally SPECIFICALLY known for living on a hill,  and maedhros and maglor, alongside the rest of their brothers and their father, swore an irrevocable oath to retrieve the silmarils (which, THOSE arent just gems- they’re representative of LIGHT, they literally hold the light of the two trees inside of them, theyre very very much a literal and metaphorical representation of light in tolkien), and this vow was literally like a deal, that they would retrieve the silmarils and would not rest until all three were retrieved and when tolkiens says ‘they could not rest,’ what he actually means is ‘no afterlife for them’. And so like i mentioned earlier,  maedros’ death is a self-sacrificial active suicide where he jumps into a pit of fire and then is sentenced to the Everlasting Darkness in death, possibly until the oath he took is fulfilled by somebody else somehow buts thats not full clear- he cannot even go to the afterlife until his oath is finished, he is stuck in limbo in the Everlasting Darkness.

Smthn smthn max and mike possibly both trapped somewhere, maybe in diff places (mike in the void like maedhros vs max in the UD somehow/henry’s mind, like arwen and maglor wandering the shores), cant come back until they get the light (the silmarils)/their good memories smthn smthn making a deal imagery smthn smthn swapping places imagery

idk what the full tie in is yet. but. many thoughts.