#honestly in anti feyre after acomaf

[acourtofthought]

This is going to be a bit of an Anti Azriel post because I'm tired of seeing E/riels tear Lucien down because they're so desperate for their ship to happen that they need to create a version of Lucien that doesn't exist so they can pretend he's not a viable option for Elain.

Do they honestly believe SJM wrote Azriel to be a better male than Lucien (not equals, but better than)? Just because Azriel is a warrior which somehow makes him superior to Lucien, who is the younger of the two and still hasn't found his place in the world? Who is still searching for his own found family (which may not even be Vassa and Jurian as they may have a mortal life span?) and doesn't even know the truth about his father? Who is still developing new powers as the series goes on?

Azriel may have had a shitty childhood but at least his family did him a favor by getting him into training at a young age. Lucien's family never directed him towards any path. His studies, his training, all came about from his own desire to learn.

Azriel can't control himself and starts fights in important political meetings all because Eris said something insulting. That somehow makes him the better of the two?

Lucien wasn't able to do more for Feyre in ACOMAF because he was stuck between doing what was best for the entire Court, what his High Lord asked of him (a High Lord who was also a long time friend but one who also physically threatened Lucien whenever he tried to speak up) and what one female needed. Azriel was never even threatened by Rhys yet he was still willing to lie to Feyre about her pregnancy. Then Azriel even admitted that Nesta deserved to know about the swords yet he still ended up keeping it a secret from her. That somehow makes Azriel the better of the two?

Azriel, who is so jealous of Lucien simply because he was given a bond with "the third sister" while Az was not (basically Lucien was the final piece in the "three brothers" with three sisters" puzzle and it pisses Az off because he's the real third brother and he feels left out of what Rhys and Cassian got). Who has no issues with the thought of killing Lucien (an ally) or the thought of Grayson being killed while Lucien has never mentioned wanting to harm either Grayson or Azriel? Considering cruelty bothers Elain, how does that make Azriel the better of the two?

Azriel who stares at Mor with hunger and longing and cares more about what Mor knows of Feyre's pregnancy than Elain while supposedly being in love with Elain at the same time? That makes him a better male?

Azriel who was more concerned about Mor during the King of Hybern face-off than Elain as she experienced the most traumatic event of her life over Lucien who broke free of his restraints to go to Elain's side. That somehow makes Az the better of the two for Elain?

Azriel who offered to show Elain the garden only after Lucien suggested it. Azriel who offered Elain TT only after Cassian first offered her a weapon. Azriel who said he was getting Elain back only after Cassian first said they'd get Elain back, that makes him a better male?

Azriel who has never thought of a future with Elain and thinks she can't handle anything dangerous even though he was witness to her handling a dangerous situation. That makes him a better male?

The author has put Lucien in every single one of her books and always intended for him to have a Mate which she has spoken of in interviews. He was always destined to be someone in the series.

It is canon that multiple characters comment on how intelligent Lucien is yet I don't really remember anyone regularly commenting on Azriel’s intelligence. That's not to say Az isn't intelligent however Lucien definitely is.

It is canon that Lucien shows restraint in various situations yet Azriel is never written to be very good at restraint.

It is canon that Amren, a 15,000 year old character who has seen some stuff (meaning she knows a little about what she's talking about) suggests Lucien be made High Lord (pages after meeting him for the first time) while she refers to Azriel as a "dog" (after knowing him for centuries).

Claiming Lucien is weak is ignoring the fact that SJM wrote in SF that he is developing the ability to command someone with a single word. That she is giving him the dominance that only a High Lord possesses which forces others to bow to their orders. That he is someone the members of the IC look to in order to help them obtain information. No, he didn't start the series that way but Feyre didn't start the series being the powerful High Lady she is today. The fact that SJM started him being the friend of a High Lord who wasn't as powerful yet has continued to build his character into someone that can stand equal to other High Lords shows how "not weak" Lucien is and is becoming.

Sure she's excited to write Azriel’s story but she has said Lucien is one of her favorite characters. What good is it doing someone to try to make him "less than" when the author herself says the opposite?

[bookofmirth]

When people say Elain is an introvert (and it’s why she’s well suited for Azriel) and is currently thriving/happy…it makes me laugh a little and it’s kind of annoying. Compare ACOTAR & ACOMAF Elain to ACOWAR - ACOSF Elain and there is a massive difference. She is traumatized. In the beginning, Elain is described as laughing, talking, interacting and dancing with multiple people at parties. She personally greets them. She can convince anyone to do anything with a few smiles. In the human lands she was happy and the farthest thing from introverted. After being turned by the Cauldron, she becomes quiet. She has unresolved trauma. I think in SF, it’s stated that Elain is overwhelmed by crowds and she didn’t use to be that way; she loved balls and parties. That joy was taken away from her. Elain in the Night Court seems out of place. Shippers argue we’re being “anti-feminist” (or that we hate her) when we say Elain shouldn’t be in the NC (or with Azriel) even though she has became friends with the wraith twins and is making a home there for herself. Elain doesn’t seem like herself and as if she’s not happy. How can someone read SF and conclude that she’s fine and is meant to be in a court that “sucks the life from her.” Also adding, shippers say we really don’t care about Elain because we say she should choose who/what she wants and when she chooses to kiss Azriel we don’t agree with it. Well, we don’t know if she really wants him, because it wasn’t in her pov. She wanted to kiss him, yes, but is it only lust or is there romantic feelings? For Az, I only picked up on jealousy and lust.

Honestly some people learned about feminism from wikipedia and it shows. That's a rich criticism coming from a fandom who can't extend that same grace to other female characters, though. Just saying. Everyone is a feminist when it comes to Elain, but Mor? Nesta? Feyre? They forgot how to read.

Elain in acowar-acosf is a shell of who she used to be. in acosf it's described a couple of times that she is starting to seem more like her old self, but that old self goes away so quickly. She's being sly about something, we just don't know what. She has zero relationship with Nesta, whom she was closest with before. She's trying to help the IC when trouble comes, but gets shut down. She's not friends with anyone in the IC, which is weird to me considering how much time she spends with them. Something isn't clicking in the Night Court!

In fact, sjm said in an interview (in the back of the paperback of acofas, I think?) that Elain has been having nightmares about vines choking her. We haven't read about those in canon yet, so where are they? I assume she's still having them because we haven't had her story yet. We haven't even had a chapter that tells us her thoughts yet, like you mentioned.

I've never seen anyone argue that Elain shouldn't have tried to kiss Az - not saying it's never happened, I just can't speak on it. Personally, I've even said that I don't really care if she was hurting Lucien's feelings by doing so. Be messy, do what you want, follow your heart or vagina or whatever Elain, do it. But like you said, we don't know how she actually feels. There's nothing wrong with her (or Az's) sexual desires, no one has ever said that that in itself is a problem. It's the utter lack of romantic feelings that is putting us off, when paired with the idea that supposedly, they are in love? I can accept that they are sexually attracted to one another, but chafe at the idea of them being so in love when Az couldn't think of a single positive thing to say/think about her beyond that physical attraction.

[taylors-fourth-cat-meow]

Regardless of his motives or his methods, Rhysand was keeping me alive. And had done so even before I set foot Under the Mountain.

This is one of many similar quotes from acomaf and I'd like to break this down.

First of all, the word 'regardless' doesn't even apply here. You can't disregard SA. With this one word, she is totally just... dismissing the SA. It's like the female victim thinking that's it's her fault for getting SA because she wore a dress too short or was being a little too flirtatious. Feyre at this point is utterly convinced that what rhysie did was for her own good and honestly it's just so sad. I didn't re-read acomaf it felt pathetic to me in the first go and even more so after reading anti post on Tumblr and Reddit.... But (i'm a very emotional person) now I feel like crying. This is just so sad. Feyre doesn't even count her SA as a crime. She doesn't realise that... She as a character is being forced to forgo her trauma of being SA by rhysand and actually marry him by her pathetic misogynist author. Imagine marrying your own SA who actively drugged and tormented you for THREE MONTHS. It's so unfair to her. By disregarding the SA inflicted on Feyre, she as a character is being disregarded which is just so sad because she is the protagonist.

It's just so heartbreaking to see a victim say that the SA was for their own good.

I've heard this ridiculous argument so many times and now I know where it comes from. Rhysand was not keeping Feyre alive by SA her. By drugging her. Do ppl even realise the depth of their statement? The SA Rhys inflicted on Feyre was a necessity to keep her alive. What?? I wud have still been ok, a little on edge, but fine with him taking her out of that cell as his servant or plaything or whatever. But did he have to drug her? Touch her inappropriately while the population of a whole continent watched? Make her wear a transparent curtain that barely covers her? Mark her with paint? Absolutely not. You know what he cud have done? Thrown her with the other servants. With the dancers. Or with the housemaids or kitchen staff. Used her as his own personal servant or something. Treating her horribly while doing so. I wud still accept that. But SA? Abso-fcking-lutely not. The moment you start justifying his behaviour, you are justifying his SA. I hope the Rhys stans who call Tamlin stans 'abuse apologists' keep that in mind.

And lastly,........ Srry I'm still processing the ridiculousness of this statement. How exactly was Rhys protecting her before she got utm? By violating her mind? Threatening to shatter it? Making Tamlin beg on his knees? Telling Amarantha about Claire Beddor and getting the whole estate killed? And the poor girl tortured? Telling Amarantha Feyre was a huntress that resulted in the worm trial? Threatening Lucien so feyre wud give up her real name?

You know who was protecting her even before she got utm? A certain blonde who sent her home, knowing he wouldn't be able to protect her and that staying in Prythian wud cause her death. Which it did, mind you. But I wonder why that's not brought up.....Duh! I know! Rhysie has a bigger dick! That negates all his abuse and SA! I am such a fool!

The message that this sends to the teenagers and young adults who read it is terrifying.

[alectology-archive]

Honestly you antis are something else. Rhysand is NOT ABUSIVE. You read ACOMAF, yes? Tamlin never really cared for Feyre, he just used her to free him from his curse. And then he hurt Feyre over and over while claiming it was to “protect” her. Yeah, no. But Rhysand actually cares for Feyre. He only hurt her as a last resort, because he had to protect her and Velaris. And Rhys always takes time to consider her feelings, like in ACOSF he didn’t tell Feyre 1/2

2/2 because he wanted her to be happy. Rhys knew that telling Feyre she could die in childbirth would make her depressed. Rhysand has ALWAYS looked out for Feyre and her feelings, and he actually respects her as a person.

Let’s sort this out sentence by sentence. 

Rhysand is NOT ABUSIVE.

He is though. He literally twisted feyre’s broken arm, drugged her, sexually assaulted her and was later excused for it - that should’ve warned you about the sort of person he is. and I will say this once: keeping medical information from a person is abuse, and yes it applies to pregnancy!!! 

You read ACOMAF, yes? Tamlin never really cared for Feyre, he just used her to free him from his curse.

this is blatantly false though. I hate tam, but he did love feyre in book 1. like if you fail to realise that his character’s abusive nature literally came out of nowhere just like chaol’s characterisation was wrecked so that alien could have a romance with rowan, I don’t even know what to say. (keep in mind all of this is with respect to book 1, I do not condone tam’s treatment of feyre in book 2)

And then he hurt Feyre over and over while claiming it was to “protect” her.

the word you’re looking for is abuse, and yes I agree. literally never said otherwise. why are you dragging tam into a discussion about rice’s character anyway? is your standard of comparison that low?

But Rhysand actually cares for Feyre.

he’s literally her love interest in the books, istg, of course 70% of the rice content we get is legitimately about him being good and caring for feyre (or at least, the narrative trying to convince us that it’s the case). this doesn’t mean we can ignore the other 30%!!! him bargaining with mor’s abusers and being excused for it, his actions in book 1, keeping info about her pregnancy from her, slutshaming nesta and keeping info about her powers from her, failing to give feyre legitimate choices while claiming everything is her choice and really just convincing her to go along with all of his plans, making a suicide pact with a 22 year old, kinda stalking her when she was a human teen, etc.

 He only hurt her as a last resort, because he had to protect her and Velaris.

idk what you’re talking about but if this is with reference to his actions under the mountain, please seek help. this sort of behaviour from a man is not okay!!! at the very least you have to agree that sarah made really disgusting plot choices and could’ve literally gone with anything else, but the problem with the s/jm fandom is that you guys refuse to accept that she’s a bad writer!! even after the shit-show that was acosf!!

And Rhys always takes time to consider her feelings, like in ACOSF he didn’t tell Feyre because he wanted her to be happy. Rhys knew that telling Feyre she could die in childbirth would make her depressed.

Again, please get help!!! that is not ‘consideration’. that. is. abuse. oh my god people literally think this is okay and are trying to rationalise it because they love s/jm’s book so much I -

sometimes I legitimately worry about the people reading these books...

Rhysand has ALWAYS looked out for Feyre and her feelings, and he actually respects her as a person.

child, respecting a person you supposedly love is the bare minimum

please don’t come back to my inbox with these horrible takes again 

[cassiansnes]

A Court of Thorns and Roses Review

HELLOOOOOOOO BESTIESSSS!!! so i recently made this account and started the acotar series for nesta, cassian, and nessian as a whole and i FINALLY finished the first book (let’s hope i can move faster with the others bc this was a...VERY slow read lmfaoo) anyways here are my thoughts <33333

ngl besides nesta, lucien, and rhys, reading acotar wasn’t all that interesting for me.

i’m glad that there was decent world-building so i was more occupied but this book literally took me two weeks of sporadic reading to finish when it should’ve only taken me a day or two. nesta held up so much of the beginning and middle on her own for me that i got through those chapters fairly quickly compared to the romance—which was very cute albeit a little ill-suited for feyre imo? she doesn’t seem like a doe-eyed, sweet spring-bride type that made feylin bloom in the summer solstice scenes even though i enjoyed it and thought it was cute.

lucien held my attention fairly well through most of the book and i really enjoyed his and feyre’s friendship. he’s funny and annoying and kind of an asshole and i love himmmm my sweet sweet boy. he’s a gem. one of my favs for sure.

tamlin was...eh. ik him and feyre don’t last but the few romantic moments they had were sweet although not enough for me to really sink my teeth into and fall in love with them. the scene where they’re under the willow tree was my favorite by far, i teared up a lil and everything. their romance was very short, very quick, and had a few...odd moments i didn’t enjoy. i can’t wait to see how it breaks and falls apart and watch tamlin get more interesting at least lol. he was pretty boring. feyre held up their relationship all on her own tbh.

RHYSAND WAS SO FASCINATING!!!!! okay so he was intimidating and an asshole at times but like. i enjoy morally gray/anti-hero type characters. like characters that have a antagonistic relationship with the protagonist and yet aren’t the antagonist are greattt imo. he was very complex and usually stole the show when he was present. i do hope when he and feyre get into a relationship together, she doesn’t try and “fix” him bc i’m horrible and i really enjoy this fucked up side of him more than i think i’ll enjoy the good bits. i saw (a few, but i saw them!) similarities with his character/his dynamic with feyre, and nesta’s character/dynamic...which only racked up good points for him. another fav!

NESTA. NESTA NESTA NESTA NESTA NESTA NESTA NESTA NESTA NESTA NESTAAAAAAAAA she is EVERYTHING i mean this girl is EVERYTHING like the first you see of her, she’s a raging, selfish, cold-hearted asshole—which: hot as FUCK i was having the time of my life watching her bitch at people, at feyre, at their father. like. it was stunning, breathtaking, incredible. i was in awe of her. but as we move on, as feyre comes back to her family after timmytam sends her away, we get to see this more complex more, more captivating side of her and we get to see feyre warm up to her fairly quickly after they talk, and bond with her in their own little way. i feel like we get to delve to deeper levels of her character and see something about her so fierce and loyal IT JUST MAKES ME SO HAPPYYYYY SHE HAS SO MANY LAYERS I CANT WAIT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HER UGHHH best girl my super duper uber mega fav my princess <3

and our protagonist was....honestly? not as annoying as i thought she would be. i liked feyre. she was fiery and had a bite when she needed to. she was kind and compassionate. but i think what really got me was her ability to love with everything she had. her sacrifice, her determination and drive. it was absolutely humbling. she’s a well-rounded character, for a first person pov’d protagonist, she was great!!

besides my baby princess nesta chapters, my favorite part of the book was the utm chapters, it really helped me finish bc the book finally kicked into action and got interesting and WHEW my god, it was great! i was having the timeeee of my life rhys was great, amarantha was an amazing villain that i enjoyed hating as deeply as i did, tamlin fell horribly flat - which ig was supposed to happen but wtv. all in all it was an experience, i could reread this whole boring book just to get to those chapters again.

i’d say, all in all it was a 4/10 tbh, maybe 10/10 bc nesta<333333 but otherwise meh. do better sjm. i’m not all that impressed.

ANYWAYS THANK YOU FOR READING THIS LONG BORING ASS REVIEW BESTIESSS I HOPE YOU ENJOYED STAY TUNED FOR ACOMAF REACTIONS WHICH WILL BE COMING SOON MWAH LOVE YALL

[lily-mj-fae]

Rant

Honestly i feel like this is a long time coming. But I just....I sometimes hate being in any fandom. Because of other people. Someone went off on me completely. Over simply commenting reasons because i see the situations for the greyscale (not the basic black or white) events that they are.

Earlier today I was scrolling through tiktok. and came across a video that was listing some of the things Rhys has done that aren’t great. (Including: allowing those under the mountain access to velaris, him treating tamlin better than he did nesta, and not telling feyre about the bond). I just replied that Rhys had little choice because they’re preparing for a war, that he held a deep resentment for Nesta because of how she was a total bitch to feyre for no reason while they were humans (i love nesta, but i really don’t think there’s anything in the world to justify why she mistreated, used and took advantage of feyre and found her reasoning to be a little less than sincere but appreciated her going after feyre), and that he didn’t want to force the bond on feyre.

They lost their fucking shit. like made another video and was like “say it” and acted like I was excusing Rhys. And like...no. But they also commented that we shouldn’t “normalize doing shitty things in war”. Like.....first of all...that’s...that’s literally war. 

Second of all, in real life, there aren’t always pretty decisions between “good choice” and “bad choice”. Sometimes there’s “shitty choice” and “bad choice”. 

For Rhys, letting Keir and those under the mountain was the “bad choice.” And if someone else has other feasible options for getting the darkbringer army that they needed feel free to share. But I can think of two others. And i’m saying this assuming controlling Keir into it isn’t an option otherwise that would have been the choice i think

1) Attempting to find something else he wants just as much. Which, with keir being who he is was likely impossible, or would take more time than they could afford and not guarantee anything

2) Murder Keir. Which....is not how you get an army to follow you. You don’t kill their commander and have them willing to fight for you. 

So unfornately, Mor’s safe place being invaded by her abusers was his “best” option. And he still fucking owes her an apology for it. He should have warned her and Feyre. But he prepared for the fallout preemptively, making sure Keir would not find Velaris welcoming. And Mor of course still has permission to kill her family any time she wants to, and she likes to remind them of that.

Then we already know the inner circle disliked Nesta and Elain. I think more towards Nesta because of her overall attitude. They all were (even Cassian towards nesta at first). They were biased against her from the start, and Rhys had an especially strong distaste for Nesta. (Again, not an excuse for mistreating someone with ptsd just a yeah he’s gonna treat someone differently than someone else because there are different connotations to the relationships). And this...this part was ridiculous. because I had said that Nesta was a bitch (because you can’t really say that she wasn’t), they looked at my profile...with my new Elain videos and just...”i see you like elain. and she’s just as if not more so toxic than nesta” and i’m seeing people’s arguments. And i just. I feel like because Elain was the second sister, the middle child, she gets pushed to the back both in the narrative and by people saying she’s boring.

Elain started to atone in ACOMAF. She recognized that she and Nesta fucked up. And that Their sister needed their help. So despite being engaged to a man who was anti fae, risking the relationship with the man she loved, she insisted that they help Feyre. She wanted to help.

And then she was kidnapped, and forced into the cauldron. Came out suffering PTSD. And this same person said it was elain who wallowed in self pity thinking about herself. PTSD as much as Nesta and Feyre. She was also struggling, dealing with visions that no one understood until after Nesta and Feyre were attacked in the library. Then she began to be free of that fogginess and lack of understanding. And once she did, she was the only one to find a potential solution to the humans being abandoned. And knew she needed to be the one to face. In fact, she started to resemble her sisters in that moment, with her strong stance. Which was so unlike her, because she’s soft. And it’s okay that she’s soft and not a fighter.

And Rhys, rhys not telling Feyre aboutt he bond was a misguided decision. He thought telling her would force it on her (in contrast to Elain and Lucien). He wanted Feyre a chance to sort through the things she needed to sort through and come to her own decision about her feelings and about her wants. And she did. 

But all of this....because someone couldn’t handle looking at the whole picture instead of focusing on little pieces. And then this same person said “i don’t mind discussing peacefully” and “I respect others opinions” while deleting mine (which hadn’t been disrespectful) and others comments. And has since basically posted several videos essentially vaguing about me (and maybe others?) continuing to accuse me of excusing characters and acting like discussing characters reasons means i’m saying that those bad behaviors are acceptable.

No.

Explaining does not equal excusing. 

And i can’t believe i ever would have to say it but....neither does cosplaying. Just because I cosplay a character, doesn’t mean i excuse their actions. It’s the dumbest fucking logic i’ve ever seen

I admit to making a few vague videos myself in response. 1) the elain video i posted here. Where I discuss her flaws. 2) one mentioning that explaining doesn’t equal excusing that it’s often looking at all the events that create an event. Which is more interesting anyway. 3) one stating the actions of the conversation

[susannadlpena]

Gonna casually check your privilege and say that Emperor Palpatine was resurrected in the Star Wars EU and it worked fine. But trust me not here to talk trash! Authors should be able to do what they want for the good of their stories and one series I’m heavily involved (I even talk to the author) has a character that some would say is favored most of all by the author, but her purpose within her universe has captivated the audience in such a way that we do not want her to fail. Part 1 of 2 >.>

PART II: psychotic-mouse said:I was just wondering what you’d consider is crossing the line into something that’s destructive for the story’s greater picture? While I love the world in ACOTAR, I can’t help but role my eyes at everything Feyre and Rhysand nowadays. I can’t and won’t say they’re obsolete, ACOWAR raised the roof in terms of possibilities and I’m sick of being stuck with Archeron and friends. Like, there’s a universe where GOD EXISTS! To me, ACOTAR needs TOG’s 3rd person pov or a fresh protagonist. Am I crazy?

Hi there! 

Hoo boy, so this is a lot to talk about (and you’re in luck, because I love talking, yikes, sorry if this ends up being more than you bargained for, friend). First of all, you’re totally right. I totally forgot about the Star Wars EU. My experience with the EU is all the books involving Jacen, Jaina, and Tenel-Ka (who I still actively dislike), so it’s a bit limited, and I was going strictly off the movies. Maybe a better example is like if Suzanne Collins resurrected President Snow, or even President Coin. Poor Katniss. 

So, doing something destructive to the story’s greater picture is different than doing something actively destructive. Since we’re on the subject of SJM, we’ll just use her. SJM killing off not only Nehemia but ALSO Sorscha to further two white protagonists is actively destructive. Was it malicious? I honestly don’t think so. Was it ignorant? Yeah. And though I’m of the personal belief that intent does need to be taken into account when examining things like this, I’m also of the belief that impact is more important than intent. I would’ve side-eyed a bit if it was JUST Nehemia, but Nehemia AND Sorscha? That’s a lack of self-awareness that hurts large groups of people. 

SJM does very well, in my opinion, of staying true to the story and not destroying its greater picture. Ex: There are certain characters she couldn’t have killed without irreparably damaging the main characters. Basically any of the main squad. She had to take other things away from them, (Gavriel from Aedion, Aelin’s powers and the human form she’s used as a crutch/security blanket for years, Connall from Fenrys, Dorian’s humor and easygoing personality etc), because despite the criticisms that nothing was lost because no one important died, if she DID kill someone important, the entire message of the story–hope, happiness even when the odds are impossible–would be less impactful. Veronica Roth with Allegiant? Not so much. Killing the heroine in a somewhat pointless death that you’ve lead your readers to root for and want a happy ending for is maybe not the best narrative choice. 

(For the record, though I don’t personally like it, I’m not against authors killing their main characters, but it’s gotta make sense. I’d be surprised, for example, if Jude survives Queen of Nothing. And, to use a character I love instead of someone I dislike so y’all can’t accuse me of being biased, Sam Cortland dying made sense to the narrative arc. It killed me. I low key still ship him with Aelin. But it made sense and it served the purpose of the narrative WELL. I mean I guess he’s not a main character, but he FEELS LIKE IT TO ME OK. *runs to a corner to cry and mourn … still*)

So, you used the ACOTAR world for illustration, so let’s run with that. A little bit of it is perspective and personal taste, right? I personally could read little tidbits about Feyre and Rhys for the rest of my life, because I love them very much. ACOWAR was meh for me, but I know a lot of people who REALLY HATED it, and a lot of people who REALLY LOVED it. And those things that people who really hated it take issue with tend to be things that the people who really loved it, loved. 

That being said. SJM writing a book about Feyre and Rhysand would destroy the series narrative, just like we were saying. Why? Because their arc is over. They’ve gotten their happily ever after (relatively: I mean, every stage of life brings its own problems, and in fantasy that means WAR). But they’ve grown into themselves as characters, so trying to write another book about THEM means one of two things: Either SJM is going to beat a dead horse and there will be nothing compelling because they won’t grow or struggle enough, OR, she’ll have to pull them back in terms of development to create new problems (which to be fair, happens to people IRL, but it usually isn’t something we want to read in escapist fantasy). 

So, you’re right. The ACOTAR world can only continue if it has a fresh new protagonist, and SJM has pointed to the fact that, there will be THREE fresh new protagonists. Each couple will get its own book, and my guess is she’ll start with Nesta and Cassian, because they have the most explosive problems (notice I didn’t say biggest), and she needs to use them to propel audience interest forward to read the others. If she starts quietly, like with Azriel and Elain (sue me, I’ve been an Elriel shipper since ACOMAF), she won’t hold her audience as well. That would be destructive to the story line a little bit. 

I hope I answered your question? All in all, while I’m ‘eh’ about the plot twist in King of Scars, it isn’t destructive to the storyline. It has the POTENTIAL to be, mind you. It will all depend on how it’s handled. If Alina is dragged back in? I’m going to say it destroys, not its own storyline, but the storyline of the Grisha trilogy. If Alina is left tf alone, I’m still side-eyeing, but I’m side-eyeing because of my own tastes, not because I think there’s a fundamental issue with the plot. 

Different things can destroy stories for different people, and those same things can MAKE stories for others. Again, I LOVED Rhys and Feyre’s cameo in Kingdom of Ash. I am a SUCKER for stuff like that, even though it’s silly (it’s a book people, let your hair down, ok). It really ripped other people out of the world, and that’s ok. They can side eye it for all those reasons all they want. My issue is that there’s a double standard (sometimes–not all the time!) with some of SJM’s antis, where they tear her down or ridicule her for making a similar choice to what they praise other authors for.

TL:DR–> There’s a difference between being destructive to your audience and being destructive to your story, and one is much more important than the other. It’s important to criticize. But be aware of your critiques. If you’re slandering an author for something you would praise another for, don’t be surprised when some readers/viewers stop assigning your critiques credibility and ascribe half of what you say to bitterness.  

[cleopatraas]

ACOWAR - Real Talk (SPOILERS)

I don’t like using a cut but this is a long post, so I’ll use it just this once. 

Everything aside, how I feel about ships, how I feel about characters, how I feel about everything, these are my thoughts. 

The diversity was so much better than in ACOTAR and ACOMAF. I went into this book afraid of so many things, of so many outcomes, of so many horrors, but...I was very pleasantly surprised. I could tell Sarah tried and honestly? Thank you. Thank you for trying, even all these years later, thank you for giving me this book. 

Thank you for giving me a bisexual black character. 

Thank you for giving me a black character in a position of power that wasn’t demonized (Yes. That happens)

Thank you for giving me a gay brown man (I’m not sure on Thesan’s race/ethnicity 100% and I want to do research but I think he’s Hindi). 

It’s not only Helion, Tarquin, and Thesan. It’s their entire Courts. Before ACOWAR, it was theories, rumors, fan casts, but now, it’s canon. It’s canon that three Courts are entirely people of color and even Kallias’s court, the WINTER COURT, has Fae of brown skin. 

It’s also canon that ALL THE ILLYRIANS are brown. Every last one of them, every last one. (There are a lot of thoughts on this, but this is not the time)

And a lot more people had brown skin! Like...almost everyone. I couldn’t even tell you how many times I cried, when all these characters...started to look like me. And that’s the best way I can describe it; this euphoria, this moment where everything just stands still....and you cry. 

SARAH ONLY USED TAN LIKE THREE TIMES. That’s a blessing in itself. 

AND SHE NEVER USED FOOD TO DESCRIBE US OH BOY. That was probably what I was most afraid of? Reading about Helion being “dark-chocolate” or Thesan being “caramel”. Even worse, someone thinking of them like food. It’s like...fetishizing us and its icky (unless you allow someone to call you a food nickname, which is a whole different thing). But she didn’t! She just used brown...deep brown, rich brown, etc. and I liked it. (She did use honey-brown, but I was okay with that). She also didn’t use the word exotic...bless. 

And she tried when it came to lgbt+ rep. As a straight person I obviously can’t say what needs to be said, but I can say what I thought. No, Nephelle nor Thesan’s lovers got names, but it was obvious that they were gay. I love how Helion, A BISEXUAL MAN, was never portrayed as a slut? He was never slut shamed? Yes, he wanted three/foursomes, but no one ever slut shamed him for it. No one ever looked down at him for liking both genders? Helion was forward with his attraction to Mor, Cassian, Azriel, Rhys, Feyre, AND THESAN. (The man has incredible taste)

I...liked Mor’s coming out story? Obviously there are things that....aren’t perfect. But I wasn’t really looking for perfect and I wasn’t sure what to expect. Probably one thing about it is I’m just sad Mor doesn’t feel like the Inner Circle won’t judge her, even when they don’t blink an eye at Thesan or Helion or Nephelle. So I hope a novella is about her, or she’s in the next series. Also the whole “me coming out would make Azriel sad” ??? 2+2=honey its your life who cares who it makes sad; just be happy. 

But I’ll leave that topic for people of the lgbt+ community to dissect and discuss.

Character wise...I don’t think anyone was really, completely OOC? I think there were moments where I was staring at the character like... “Okay who are you and what have you done with so and so?” (spoiler alert, it was Rhys)

Mor hating Nesta? I don’t like Nesta, but that was a bit harsh. I think you guys were robbed of that friendship. I can see how Mor was protecting her friend, her brother, Cassian, who she’s known for centuries, against this person she’s just met but....it wasn’t really Mor-like. Especially since it came off as jealousy. 

What Rhys did to Mor...was one of the most unforgivable things. I understand we’re at war, I do, but there is a line you have to draw for yourself. There is a line and bringing both of your cousin’s abusers into the same room, THAT’S THE LINE. Rhys and Azriel both betrayed Mor’s trust. And then took her safe place away from her. 

And then she had to work BESIDE Keir and Eris, no longer in control, no longer in power. I just...I’m still....not comfortable at all with this. Lines need to be drawn so stuff like THIS doesn’t happen. I don’t see Rhys forcing Feyre to work with Tamlin...and yet....he brings Eris and Keir right in front of Mor? And then kind of belittles and judges for being triggered? Next (and not entirely forgiven)

Nessian and Elriel. I don’t ship them, but I feel like you guys were robbed. 

Maybe it’s because I don’t ship them, but I don’t really see the set up for Elriel? I see them as the best team of besties ever. I see Elain as another sister to Azriel, someone who maybe can get past more barriers because he doesn’t like her like that. And as for Elain...guys let her breathe for a second. She’s still healing over Greyson, or whatever that miserable boy’s name is, and she still has to navigate a mating bond. I think they would be amazing best friends, because guys and girls can be best friends without them being related, but if you guys ship it....I can see it. That’s all I’m going to say. 

I think you guys were cheated out of Nessian. But I don’t think you guys were cheated at all....? I don’t like Nesta, but I can appreciate a character healing. I can appreciate a character who, as the fandom says, feels too much. I can appreciate Nesta’s PTSD and recognize it. But please, recognize Cassian’s PTSD, too, thanks? He almost died too; he almost lost his wings. And that’s why neither of them have thrown each other at the other. I think it’s very obvious they have some feelings...in a slow burn kind of way. And I think this slow burn could be really good so I’m really happy for Nessian shippers. 

And I don’t think Cassian was OOC. Everyone recognizes Azriel and his self-doubt, especially Moriel shippers. The main thing about Azriel and his mental block is that he think he doesn’t deserve to be loved. And I think Cassian feels that way, too, especially after failing to protect Nesta after he swore he would. 

He was willing to die to try to regain some of that honor and her trust. He almost did. Like....Twice! Yes, Nesta saw her father die, but....I think it’s reaching it to say it was OOC for Cassian not to go to her. He has his own internal struggle and Feyre herself said that they needed to give Nesta space. Sometimes going to a person right away....it’s not the best call. 

Jurian and Eris? No? Like I’m fine with Jurian...I can believe he was never the villain of their story. I can believe he has his own traumas and mental illness(es) and PTSD. Mostly because no matter how hard I try I can never remember what went down between Miryam, Drakon, and Jurian. I can barely remember how to spell their names. 

But Eris? No. Just...him being the “not the villain but also not the bad guy in the story, more like the anti-hero”, I wasn’t buying it. It came out of nowhere and it erases Mor’s trauma and Lucien’s. Eris didn’t deserve that little bit of ‘redemption’ he got, but Tarquin deserved more page time. So can I like...trade the two?

No?? Female?? Illyrians?? My heart still hasn't recovered. 

No one died? I’m not complaining, but I was sure Amren was going to die. 

There are so many winged creatures now I already forgot half of them. We have the Seraphim who I was already expecting to have feathered wings. We have the Peregryms...which reminds me of Miss Peregrine every time I look at it. We have whatever the FRESH HELL HELION TURNED INTO OH BOY I HAD A HEART ATTACK. Helion’s beast form would have me running for the hills. 

We have the “villains” who turned into “anti-heros”? I was more upset over the Carver and Weaver’s deaths more than anything in this book. Because their characters are always better. They only showed up to that battle to eat people, terrorize Fae, and get something out of it. The best™ kind. And then they....died. The Weaver’s death was so anti-climatic she deserved better. And Bryaxis YEETED so quick. Did we really think It would go back to that library? 

THE SURIEL. RIP Suri. You will be missed. The one death the entire fandom will never be over. 

Lucien. His trauma...wasn’t addressed at all. And I could let it slide...but there was time to address it. There was time before Lucien left the book to go find Vassa to address his trauma. For the love of god, Feyre saw what Ianthe almost did to him, she saw what Tamlin almost did to him...but Lucien ended up apologizing and being treated...horribly? Fix this. Immediately. Fox Boy deserved better. 

Lucien suddenly being biracial. I’m not going to complain, at all, because Biracial!Lucien gave me new life, it resurrected me on the cross. But...Lucien looked exactly like Beron in ACOTAR and ACOMAF. It was just pushed so hard, that “Lucien has dark skin now”, that is was pretty obvious Helion was his father (especially when the book was suddenly screaming at us that Helion was Helion SPELL-CLEAVER). 

Tamlin...Just...Can everyone just ship a bottle of aspirin to me? If you all do it, I’m pretty sure it’ll be enough to take my headache away. Hopefully. Maybe two bottles from all of you, just to be sure. 

I also felt like there was a different writer at some points? And the story kind of dragged in areas? Did anyone else feel that way? 

That’s pretty much it. There was so much more than I could go deeper into, but I think this is just a nice over view. If you want my thoughts on anything, feel free to use my inbox. 

[acourtofthought]

In the live where sjm was asked if Azriel's book is next and she says she can't confirm anything yet, but once we get to the end of acosf, we should know who it is. We know that it is most probably Elain's, but then she says that Azriel's journey is something she is very excited to write, which leads me to believe he will be the love interest. Before acosf, she said in some live talk that she discussed what happens next (after acosf) what happens with Elain, Mor, and Azriel with her editor and it terrifies me to think that she might have watered down Elain's journey to her being stuck between a situation where Azriel is struggling with his lingering feelings with Mor, and also his love for elain that he totally felt since the beginning.

Sjm is known to be a "pantser" type of author and that is clear in many of the scenes she writes. She does not go with outlines and she even said some ships could collapse mid-draft. I honestly think it's just poor writing. I am worried she could develop clues for a ship and build entire potential plots, just for her to give up and go for something less interesting. This sounded like a very anti sjm rant but I promise it's not that 🙂

At about the 25:00 minute mark of the Live Talks with Eva Chen Interview, SJM tells us that as soon as Nesta and Elain came back onto the page in ACOMAF, she knew that they would have journey's beyond what Feyre was seeing.

"When I was working on ACOWAR, I began working on this book for fun and at the time I was only contracted for the initial three books of the series".

"I wound up writing a couple hundreds of pages of it (SF)"

"There was a lot I wanted to do in this world"

"I went out to lunch with my then editor many years ago and had one too many drinks and wound up drunkenly pitching her these books."

"I was writing ACOWAR but finishing up MAF at the time"

"What plans I had for Elain and for Mor and for Azriel."

"Two weeks later I got a call that they wanted to buy these books."

"Because I knew so early on while I was finishing up MAF and finishing up ACOWAR. Because I knew this was where I wanted things to go it allowed me to plant things for her journey and even Elain's journey early on."

SJM did say she's excited to write Az's journey. But she's tricky with her words and just because she said "when you get to the end of SF I think you'll know who the next book is about and Az's journey is one I'm very excited to write about." it might not be what some are thinking.

Because SJM is tricky with words, she could be telling us that Elain's book is next, she'll end up with Lucien and during their book she will continue laying crumbs for Az's journey as she's excited to begin the groundwork for his eventual book.

SJM said the sisters were going to have journeys of their own all the way back in book 2 and was able to plant things for their journeys early on. That means she often builds up an individual characters journey long before they get a book of their own.

SF made it extremely clear that Az is jealous of Lucien. It's evident that Az thinks he could easily defeat Lucien in a duel. That Az doesn't think Lucien is good enough for Elain.

So wouldn't an Elucien book where Az realizes that no, he actually would not easily defeat Lucien, where yes, Lucien is definitely good enough for Elain, be something that would setup Az's future journey?

I actually think it makes a lot of sense that after Az threw the tantrum he did and said the things he did, the author would make him eat his words and see Elucien happy and Lucien powerful.

"When you get to the end of SF".

The Az Bonus took place on Solstice.

Az rejected Elain on Solstice and she returned his gift. To me, getting inside her mind for that is more important than Az getting a HEA with his mate first as it's now the second time she's been rejected by someone.

At the end of SF, we're told that Beron (Lucien's "father") is a major concern as he's now looking to ally with Koschei.

At the end of SF, we find out Eris (Lucien's brother) is being tortured by Beron.

At the end of SF, we see the sisters visit their fathers grave and, though we don't know what was said, Elain whispered a few things to him.

After Feyre and Nesta, doesn't 'it seem like Elain deserves a chance to have a POV of her own? Where we can finally read how she's doing with the death of their father? Since she was the closest to him? Does Az being pissy over not getting a mate really trump everything Elain has gone through since the series began? Being turned fae? Losing her fiance? Stabbing the King? Losing her father? Dealing with the effects of the bond?

At the end of SF, we see Nesta take Elain's wooden carving and place it on their fathers gravestone as a permanent marker of the beauty and the good he tried to bring into the world.

The end of SF ends with Elain's carving.

Yes, Az got a POV in the middle of the book. But by the end of SF, there was nothing to really suggest that Az is heavily connected to the current threats of their world. Not when it's Eris and Lucien's father torturing Eris and looking to ally with Koschei. Not when they mentioned how important it is they get the Spring Courts forces as an ally and Tamlin is not getting better. Not when Koschei said to tell his Vassa he's waiting (Vassa being Lucien's friend and the person Elain had visions about). Not when SJM has been talking about the sisters journey since book 2.

Side note, I think you've just said it yourself why Elain won't end up with Az. "Struggling with his feelings for Mor and also his love for Elain which he's totally felt from the beginning".

Worst romance ever, don't you think? The male simultaneously being in love with two females? 😬

That's not really an SJM trope and since Az looked at Mor with yearning in ACOFAS, I doubt he really had feelings for Elain then.

[acourtofthought]

Hello!

About the Azriel you were talking about him, I have to say that part in the extra that he says: that he showed Rhysand that side of him said a lot. It is normally closed and has multiple peaks. Girls find men that sexy, but in SJM's books it was always a warning.

I wanted to know why people find the way he refers to Elain as an object of possession beautiful, I wanted to see if it was Lucien giving the necklace to someone else...

Another detail, from acomaf we know that Azriel needs to exercise when he is frustrated. By the time he gets to that ring, he's broken, and he's fine and slept as well as he could.

I love the language of Gwynriel: provocative, competitive, and understanding at a glance.

I loved when Gwyn said he saw Azriel's aggressive side that slaughtered everyone, WITHOUT HESITATION. She was there at her worst moment, but proud that her attackers suffered. I'm looking forward to the broken parts of the two coming together.

What do you say about Gwyn saying she did bad things too. Do you think there's something beyond the fights she had with Catrin?

The reason Feysand worked is because Rhys showed Feyre the worst of him from the start. The reason Nessian worked is because Nesta never put on airs around Cassian, she let him see the most bitter and angry parts of who she was from their first interaction. Rowealin were endgame because they were complete assholes to one another in the beginning. If you can weather the worst of someone than you can definitely handle the best of them. We don't get that with E/riel though and that's not a good thing for an SJM book because as we see above, that's not how she writes her endgame couples. Azriel refuses to let Elain see the darkest parts of him and that right there spells their demise. I know Gwyn hasn't seen everything bad about Az just yet (i.e., his obsessive tendencies with females, his defying orders) but, she has seen the ever present rage that is a part of him. She did not seem bothered at all by his savagery. Anti's like to use the excuse that "of course she was fine with it since he killed the people that were harming her!" but honestly, that doesn't seem to make a difference to Elain. The people of the Hewn City are examples of horrible beings yet the cruelty that exists there still bothers her. Why would she care about what they do to one another since canonically, they're bad? Why would it matter to her since they deserve it? Elain seemed shocked by Nesta's beheading of the King but didn't he deserve it? Did Elain herself seem to enjoy taking credit for her part in his demise? After everything he had done to her and her sisters? It does not matter to Elain who is bad or good, who deserves cruelty or not, it still bothers her. So no, when Anti's try to argue against Gwyn's response to Az slaughtering everyone, their argument doesn't hold up. I think when Gwyn had the conversation that she didn't want to make any more mistakes she was referring to what happened at the temple which she carries a lot of guilt for. And when she was referring to the faults she had with Catrin, it was probably referencing the normal sister squabbles that sisters tend to have (just as we've witnessed with the Archerons). Do I think it's possible she could do something bad in the future? Only in the way that Feyre does bad things (like the destruction of Spring for the good of her Court and revenge on Tamlin and stealing from Tarquin). In the way Cassian razed an entirely village for revenge. In fantasy books, no one really looks at those things as "bad" because if there's a "evil guy or girl", readers tend to feel they deserve whatever is coming for them. But if we want to get technical, I guess revenge at whatever cost can be considered somewhat of an issue. Feyre and Rhys were willing to make an enemy out of a good person so long as it served their purpose in the end (it bothered them to do so but they were still did it anyway). She's meant to be Azriel's equal and that means the good and the bad have to somewhat align. Which to me means she could develop a bit of a bloodthirsty, vengeful side just like he has, just like Nesta has, just like Rhys has and so on.

[bookofmirth]

so pre acosf i was a major anti nesta. like i really disliked her. but i respected the fact that she was a bitch through and through and wasn’t changing for anything or anyone. and then i read acosf and really disliked rhysand (who was my number 1 book boyfriend previously) and it’s literally the terrible internalised misogyny in sjm and her writing that made me dislike him

firstly i thought it was so weird how the inner circle treated nesta like she was the greatest evil of all time and had murdered their children. i thought it was just so silly 💀 like nesta and her mistakes compared to what rhysand has done, compared to how many people az and cass hahe killed is literally just nothing. like compared to what all the other characters have done i feel like nesta being a bitch and letting feyre hunt is honestly so much less evil and feels so hypocritical for the inner circle to regard her in such a negative way because of it (considering the evil things they’ve done)

but anyway, i honestly started to hate rhysand after the entire pregnancy secret came out. was nesta in the right? NO. absolutely not. but rhys is the reason it was even able to come out like that. he’s the man with power and withheld the info from feyre because apparently no more choices for feyre exist after acowar 🫶

but to have to read about rhys sitting in velaris and laughing with cassian about nesta getting punished for spilling the beans as if his wife didn’t just find out she’s gonna die and he didn’t just threaten to kill nesta was so oddly misogynistic to me that i had to pause. like rhys really got out of that situation scott free? i know everyone makes headcanons that feyre yelled at him or something but … come on. in canon no one blames rhys for shit. even cassian doesn’t blame rhys at all and just punished nesta on that god awful hike where he makes her walk (on a trail he himself says could easily kill someone unexperienced WHILE NESTA IS UNEXPERIENCED) for 4 days until she passes out of exhaustion is just … horrible? i think that’s when my opinion on nesta really just flipped.

like i just feel sad for her and the narrative that is honestly never on her side. after acowar, i’m not sure why rhysand still hated her so much like she literally saved cassian’s life twice? helped them through acomaf with the queens and then all through acowar? obviously she was a bitch that used their money but honestly she kept to herself and only lashed out when they sought her out. like she didn’t go out of her way to find them and fight with them. idk the entire inner circle feels so weird after acosf like this happy bubble just popped and honestly they’re not as amazing as i’ve thought they were?

this turned into a rant but i really need sjm to address this whole nesta punishment situation in some way in the future books (i know she won’t because rhys is rarely held accountable or truly made to look like a bad guy) but i really need some justice for nesta 😭

i know lots of people blame nesta and say she deserved the way she was treated in acosf and after telling feyre about the pregnancy but after reading acosf through really neutral and unbiased eyes, i honestly think rhysands behaviour is excused just bec he’s a guy that everyone loves and nesta is a bitch so she ‘deserves’ to be treated badly and unfairly

There are a few things I miss from acomaf - Rhys, and the IC.

This isn't character development, it's like character demolishment, especially in Rhys's case. That anon I answered earlier this week said that they think he was in character in acosf, but I still just have a hard time with that! Not necessarily with Nesta, because I could see that building from the moment they met, but with the pregnancy. That's beside the point, though.

I wonder.... I wonder if this is because of sjm's habit of not writing villains very well, and by that I don't mean Nesta is a villain - like objectively speaking, she doesn't serve that function in the story - but what I mean is that her villains are very two-dimensional, boring, flat, I rarely understand their motivations. And her protagonists are very good, beautiful, powerful, the Most Best Ever. Then enter Nesta, who is somewhere in between the most perfect angel/demon... idk, I kinda wonder if this didn't expose a weakness in sjm's characterization overall, that she just couldn't write a character with flaws and like, deal with that in a normal way?

I do think that the IC as individuals all dealt with Nesta in different ways, and to me most of those ways made sense. Amren, Mor, Azriel, even Cassian, their behavior, while not perfect or ideal, makes sense to me. But Rhys? He got turned into a prop to create conflict in acosf.

[bookofmirth]

Honestly? I feel like Lucien's actions are easier to forgive than Feyre's. Lucien has valid reasons to why he did those things. When he tried to bring Feyre back? It was because: 1. It was to prevent Tamlin from making a deal with the Hybern King, which would bring Prythian and especially the Spring court in danger. 2. The Night court wasn't a good option either. Anyone outside the NC saw Rhys as the villain and they all heard nasty stories about the NC. Lucien didn't know Feyre learned how to read so of course he would think the letter was fake and she's being manipulated. After all, Rhys is known for his manipulation. I'm not sure why Feyre would think Lucien would just leave Tamlin for Feyre that easily, considering she knows of what happened when Lucien was thrown out of the AC. Lucien feels like he owes Tamlin big and honestly Tamlin made him feel like Lucien had to be grateful. About acomaf- I'm not sure why people say Lucien did nothing or even go as far as to say he supported "slavery". Yes, it wasn't much, but for someone who would get abused even for just LOOKING WRONG, it was enough. Lucien tried helping Feyre UTM and it ended with Tamlin giving him 20 lashes. As far as I know, whenever Lucien would try to convience Tamlin to let Feyre do something, Tamlin would get angry and shut him down. Like damn. On the other hand, I do understand why Feyre felt like Lucien was betraying her, but she went too far in acowar. I mean, she literally lead Lucien right to Tamlin's claws and that was only to get on Tamlin's nerves. She was well aware of the abuse Lucien got from him and yet she found it funny to leave him to deal with Tamlin right when he came in and saw Lucien and Feyre hugging. Not to mention the people that are now homeless.. Feyre did mistakes that can be easily forgiven for the right reasons, but there was no valid reason as to why she had to take people's homes and leave Lucien to his abuser.

I'm not saying that his mistakes should be easily excused, just that some of them are easy to forgive because he didn't have much choice. I'm just so frustrated because every character in that series f*cked up, yet Lucien gets the most hate for what he did, even tho he already apologized and tried to make it up to Feyre

I totally agree. I know not everyone does but this is one of those things I am just pretty firm on *shrug* If we are just looking at the shitty things they have done:

Feyre knew what she was doing, she knew she was harming people, and that was her intention at the beginning of acowar in the Spring Court. She put Lucien in harm's way (once she put him there with Tamlin and once she almost left him there, with Ianthe) and she manipulated the guards and Ianthe and Tamlin into the guards being whipped.

In this … in this, my revenge edged toward something oily, something foreign and queasy. He would heal from the pain, but the blow to his honor … It’d take a little piece out of mine as well.

Feyre knew, and she felt gross doing it, but she didn't stop it. It wasn't about the war either, she said it was her revenge. Anyway.

Lucien thought he was doing the right thing. He didn't mean to harm anyone, like ever, he thought Feyre was brainwashed and that he was helping his best friend. He trusted Tamlin to know more about the war and Hybern, and it's not like he had much of a choice anyway.

Their actions led to people being hurt, but sjm frames it as Lucien being a bad friend, while Feyre gets to go be High Lady with the love of her life and honestly great for her, that's amazing, but I hate the way that Lucien's actions have been framed because we know that he thought he was doing the right thing, and we know that Feyre was actually trying to hurt people. Not just Tamlin, all the people around him were pawns, and I will never be okay with what she did at the beginning of acowar 🙃 It quite pisses me off.

I'm not anti either of them, it's just that in 4.5 books this is my least favorite version of Feyre and otherwise I think she's selfless and fantastic and great. I wish her revenge didn't have to be so utterly careless, though.

[bookofmirth]

Anti-Eluciens: It’s so creepy to ship Elucien because Elain doesn’t want anything to do with Lucien. She doesn’t talk to him, she doesn’t like him, she doesn’t want him!

Feysand where Feyre literally hated Rhys for an entire book, didn’t want to be near him for the quarter of another, wanted to hurt Rhys, wanted to kill Rhys I’m pretty sure at some moments, constantly told Rhys to leave her alone, and only showed anger and hatred towards him for a large chunk of the series: …

Nessian where their entire trope is that they hated each other but couldn’t stay away from each other, Nesta insulted Cassian, Cassian insulted Nesta in return, they couldn’t even be in the same room without an argument breaking out for basically all of ACOMAF and ACOWAR, Nesta refused Cassian’s gift, and they were constantly at each other’s throats: …

Me: Wow you’re so right because in what world would an ACOTAR couple who don’t immediately click ever work out😒🙄

This argument is honestly the worst lmao

I guess enemies-to-lovers is problematic then. Or arranged marriage trope? Reluctant soulmates? Any other trope or situation when the people involved don't like one another right away?

All three men (Rhys, Lucien, and Cassian) have described the mating bond as being shackled. All three women have outright disliked, if not hated, their mates at first. If that's not the story people are into, then I'm not sure why they kept going after acomaf, or honestly even acotar since it's not like Feyre and Tamlin started off on great terms.

Even if we expand this to ToG, none of those main ships even liked each other as people at first. Same thing in CC if I remember correctly.

Call me crazy, but that's how it is in a lot of the romances I've read... there is wariness, mistrust, perhaps downright hatred. The point is the journey of moving past that. But sure, I guess it's a "problem" when people decide that Elain hates Lucien, which she doesn't, that's fanon not canon.

I suppose the only truly acceptable ships are the ones with insta-love!