#i don't have those... horrible reactions i had. probably 'cause i'm not in an abusive relationship anymore lol.

[doomfully]

my gf and i are moving to austin in january. and i am so incredibly looking forward to it. 😭

[haleigh-sloth]

This is probably really stupid but I can’t help but wonder this 😭 now obviously I know there will always be those horrible takes about Touya and his abuse, but I felt like there was such a volatile reaction to his trauma where he was being called a “spoilt brat” “born evil” and the one to blame for the state of the family. Just being all round invalidated, and it made me wonder do you think people would have been more empathetic or sympathetic towards him. If we had gotten his backstory 1) through I guess his point of view first and 2) before Endeavor’s change of heart? Like I think it’s being handled very well, but I hate how some people have reacted to it and always wondered if Horikoshi hadn’t decided to humanise Endeavor first and then reveal Touya’s backstory would have people been more willing to empathise with him?

Hmm

It’s not stupid lol

I can't answer on the what ifs, because I don't think it's a matter of those circumstances tbh.

In my personal opinion and experience with this fandom and ever since the hospital chapters released, the biggest problem is that people expected another Shouto situation.

Shouto's situation was quite easy to read. He was beaten, hit. He witnessed his MOM get beaten and hit. He saw his mom have a mental break down and his dad took his mom away. Shouto hated his dad.

Easy to follow, easy to see who is the bad guy.

Touya's situation is....a lot more complicated. Because Touya's abuse was strictly emotional. The damage he took was psychological, while all the physical damage was inflicted upon himself. And to add a cherry on top of what's already a complicated mess, the emotional abuse was due to Touya wanting attention from said abuser. When people think of emotional abuse they'll probably most likely think of berating, name calling, intentional damage being inflicted. But with Enji that was not the case. Clearly. It was abuse inflicted by avoidance. And the avoidance hurt Touya, because he wanted his dad to be the biggest part of his life, just like he was when Touya was very young.

Imo, Touya gets such negative reactions because he poses as a very hard pill to swallow. Children in abusive families are not always going to ask for an escape, to be taken away to a better house with better parents, nor are they always going to place blame on the parents for the things they've done. That's just not the reality of it. Often times they want to stay with their parents that suck, stay in their home that sucks. Often times they lie to protect their parents.

Now, the Todorokis weren't being investigated or anything lolol--BUT Touya poses as that kid who continues to want that relationship with the parent who is hurting him. Each of the Todosiblings exhibit a different reaction to their trauma, and it's obvious how closely Horikoshi was trying to hit the nail on the head with that idea. And I feel that based on some things I read from people, the visceral reactions are either due to personal reasons that this sub plot touches on for them, or people just lacking an understanding in how children and families work.

Both I am understanding toward. But I stop feeling sympathy for those people when they insist that their idea of how to react to abuse is the right way--as if there is such a thing, or when people plug their ears and close their eyes and refuse to learn a thing or two about abuse and continue screaming their shit takes.

Imo I've seen 2 distinct groups who hate Touya:

Shouto stans who insist that Touya is bad for Shouto and the Todorokis or something, or continue comparing his situation to Shouto as if to prove a point about what abuse is or isn't

Villain haters in general (not worth even engaging with tbh cuz they're a lost cause)

I'm generalizing--because there are more groups of people who hate him for different reasons.

But when it comes to understanding the Todoroki dynamics and what the story is building up toward, there are a lot of things within the sub plot people don't want to talk about.

One of them being the fact that Touya wants his dad. In his life. He may not NEED his dad in order to live a life, but he WANTS his dad's presence in his life. And the story is building up to giving the LOV trio what they want--which means Touya and Enji will be in each other's lives, under the pretense that this is what they both want. Most importantly what Touya wants.

The other big one is acknowledging that Rei failed too, and contributed to Touya's downfall.

A couple of things I've touched on in this post but didn't expand on I talk about here and here.

[equizona]

Shielding Embrace

Fandom: Obey Me!

Characters: Mammon

Format: Drabble

Warning(s): Mentions of abuse(?) Angst(with a happy ending), crying, swearing, calling Lucifer a stuck up little bitch, OOC.

Summary: MC is tired of hearing Mammon get picked on so often, by his own brothers no less. As the second-born demon has always protected them, they think it's their turn to protect him.

Note: I wrote this a while ago, since I'm tIRED of Mammon getting bullied all the time. He deserves better-

"Diavolo, stop being such a scumbag Mammon-"

It wasn't uncommon that the brothers would call the second-born mean words. Scumbag was their favorite, along with dumb or stupid. You agreed that he didn't always make the best choices, but they were always so cruel about it. It never gave off the vibes that they were only joking either. It was like they meant every word.

You hated it with your whole being. Mammon had been the nicest to you, and he had been the one who had been there with you since the start, ever since Lucifer made him your 'guardian' in a way. He wasn't the best at showing his emotions, but you could tell he cared. Sometimes, it felt like he was the only one who cared.

You wanted to shout, or scream at them, for all the cruel things they would say to him. He deserved better than that. He was their brother, so why were they always so mean to him?

"MC? Are you okay?" You were forced out of your mind by Satan's annoyingly Loud question that brought the attention of everyone at the table to the two of you.

You remember when he tried to kill you. You remember when all of them tried to kill you. You remembered when Belphie actually killed you.

All those times never quite left your mind, and you could still feel the fear you felt in each of those situations. Mammon was the only one of them you felt completely comfortable with anymore, as he was the only one who never seemed to lose control and attempt to harm you.

You decided you wanted to stand up for him like he stood up for you all the time.

"Actually, no, I'm not. What's wrong with you guys?"

Satan's eye twitched, and it was oddly satisfying. You could see all of the brothers about to speak up about what you'd said, though you didn't give them that chance.

"I don't understand why all of you keep calling Mammon a scumbag. Is it because he's greedy? 'Cause if that is the case, then I want to remind you that greed is his sin. He's the avatar of greed. And I mean, why get mad about him for that? As far as I remember, all of you don't ever try to deny your sins."

You didn't feel satisfied just yet, so you decided to continue. You wanted to make them feel just as horrible as you assumed Mammon felt each time they threw those words at him.

"I mean, Lucifer is a stuck-up little bitch with too much pride and he can't ever seem to apologize or see that it's his fault no matter how obvious it is. Leviathan is constantly envious of everything to the point it can be fucking unbearable. Satan has extreme anger issues, and gets angry at the smallest things and Asmo is constantly flirting with people and usually not stopping until he's in their pants. And please, don't even get me started on Beel. Then of course, Belphie just seems to never bother lifting a finger to help anyone. But I never see anyone complaining about all of that, do I? It's not like any of you do anything to deny the sin you are assigned to, so why do you expect Mammon to do it, hmm?"

You raised your eyebrow in a judgemental way, just to add that extra spite. You could clearly see Mammon's shocked expression.

You preferred watching the reactions of the others more though. Beel looked guilty to some degree, Asmo looked offended, Levi and Belphie looked annoyed at the whole thing while Satan and Lucifer looked downright pissed.

You could see that Mammon was about to say something, probably about how he was okay and you should calm down, and Satan looked ready to snap and attack you, again. Though neither of them had the chance to react before Lucifer stood up while slamming his hands down on the table, glaring at you.

"Excuse me? Run that by me again, won't you?"

You'd normally apologize and leave the room to do something else, but you were tired with their bullshit and this just seemed like yet another way you could call them out on it.

So, you gathered up all of your courage and looked Lucifer straight in the eye, glaring at him as well, despite the fact you knew it would have little to no use.

"Or what? Are you going to try and kill me again? Because let me remind you that all of you have attacked me before, except Mammon. Oh, and of course, one of you actually managed to kill me. Remember that, Belphie?" You shot him a mean look, and at least he seemed to have some guilt over the situation.

"And you know, Lucifer probably would have killed me before as well, hadn't it been for Lord Diavolo. Oh, but you never quite did apologize for that, did you? You never apologized to Luke for attacking him either, did you? And it's because you have so much pride. Because you're so high and mighty and you can never do anything wrong, can you? Ah, but nobody ever tells you that, do they? Because they know it's the sin you represent and they know it's a part of who you are."

Lucifer blinked at you, shocked, and nobody else seemed like they were going to say anything either.

"Actually, in my opinion, I think Mammon is the least 'scummy' and 'lowlife' person in this room. And he somehow managed to be the one with the most control. Seriously, at this point I'm certain that you all only ever say those things to him because you all know you're the real lowlives and you're just too pathetic to admit it."

You didn't want to stay there anymore, and since they all seemed to shocked to say or do anything, you stood up and quickly made your way to your room, though it wasn't long until someone was knocking on your door.

"Uh, human..?"

Mammon's voice.

You almost wanted to cry. He didn't usually knock, he preferred to just barge in with his stupidly cheerful attitude that never failed to make you smile.

"You can come in."

You voiced it quietly, a small part of you hoping that he wouldn't hear you and just leave instead, but seconds after he opened the door and let himself in.

He didn't say anything as he sat down next to you on your bed though, most likely trying to figure out what he should say in a situation like this.

What you weren't expecting was to hear the sounds of sobbing.

Worriedly, you say up and moved next to him, concern filling your entire body as you gently put your arms around his shoulders and made him lean on your chest.

"Hey, hey, shh, are you okay? Do you want to talk about it?"

You tried to make your voice as gentle as possible. You weren't entirely sure what to do, but you never liked it when he was sad. His negative expressions and tears always layed heavy on your heart, so much that it was almost unbearable.

"Did- did you mea-mean it-?"

He stuttered out after a few minutes of you running your hand through his hair in an attempt to calm him down. You frowned, not entirely sure which part he was asking about.

"Which part are we talking about specifically?" You questioned him, though you made sure that your voice was soft.

"All of it." As soon as he answered your question, he got out of your embrace only to put his hands around your neck for a hug. You grinned, hugging him back.

"Of course I was. You're the one that's been there for me since I came here, and while I can agree that you don't always make the best decisions, they don't always make the best decisions either. They are your brothers, and they should never be saying things like that to you. Actually, from now on, each and every time they say something mean towards you, I want you to come to me so I can smother you in my love and affection."

Oh shit, fuck, did you just-

"Wait- like- uh- no- uhm- like in a-a, uh-"

He moved away from you, and you wondered if he regretted that considering how red his face was. You'd probably burn your hand if you touched his face at this point.

"I'm sorry, but you're going to have to say that again."

You gave him a patient smile, wanting him to feel comfortable. You were almost certain that he liked you back, since he wasn't exactly very good at hiding it, but you hadn't wanted to act on it before now incase you made him uncomfortable or that you were wrong.

Though his reaction only made you more certain.

He took a few moments to collect himself, before trying to speak up again, though he didn't seem able to look you in the eyes.

"Do, uh- do you mean like- like in a, uh, a rom-uhm.."

"Romantic?"

You inquired softly, and to your delight he nodded, still not looking at you.

This wasn't exactly a side of him you saw often, since he would usually try and deny anything, but you were happy about it.

You moved to hold his face in your hands, though he still refused to look you in the eyes.

"If you want to. I'm not sure how you feel, since nobody but you can be certain about that, but I know I like you, and wouldn't mind smothering your face in kisses each day."

Your tone was playful, be genuine. You felt his face heat up even more, if that was even possible. He changed the direction of his gaze to look directly into your eyes, and you felt like you would get lost in the ocean his eyes had.

He leaned forward for another hug, and you grinned, barely taking a single second to process it before you were moving your hands to hug him back.

"I like ya too."

You grinned even brighter, squeezing him tighter. You didn't ever want to leave his embrace, and while you knew that you would have to face both his brothers and the world later, it would be a lot easier with him by your side.

[belphegorbillickin]

Honestly, I love Mammon but I'm sick of his sweetness. I see him EVERYWHERE, and it's like the others don't exist. I like it when characters lose their calm you know? Esp that time when we reject Satan's pact, I really liked how he got worked up over such a thing lmao. And of course, most of the ones who tried killing mc had stupid reasons, except for Lucifer imo, but since when did demons make sense?

Alright, sure, they can still be sweet, but imagine if they ACTUALLY were dark characters. Corrupting human souls, selfish desires, blah blah. I'm not saying they can't love mc, ofc they can be sweet and lovable, but that doesn't mean they'd lose their normal habits and quirks. You cannot differentiate between them and normal humans now. The traits that would portray them as demons isn't there.

And perhaps yes, routes would've been fun. Right/wrong answers? Seems legit lmao. But like you said, the characters could've been done so much better.

I liked them at the start, now that I think of it asmo was never really what he seemed to be at the start, but in the recent events to me, at least, he's all but that. Diavolo, Barbatos, they have potential to be dark characters lmao. Asmo too, esp abt Helene, he sure was manipulative. Seeing Satan just be about cats/books upsets me bcuz he's one of my favs, and like you said, I feel he could've been a MUCH better character, plus idk he seems like he could be dark too. Other than beel & mammon, and I really don't know about belphie since he's become pretty sweet now, I feel everyone else could be written as characters with darker, more fitting demon personalities.

Though I love how we can go on about one topic for ages lmao. Lmk if my rambles become too annoying lol – 🍹

Don't worry about it, I really enjoy talking about it and I'm the queen of rambling lol. It's actually kinda hard for me to be concise when it comes to things like this.

And yes! Satan's reaction to rejection was exactly what I was thinking about when I mentioned that. I don't doubt most of the others would've reacted the same either tbh, but the difference between his reason for wanting to kill MC and his brothers' felt very different imo.

I'm kinda repeating myself, but I think people really overlook how cold Asmo was regarding getting MC killed. In that sense I can see how they get along with each other so well. I think I huge part of that is people coming in knowing that they're all gonna love MC and MC can't die so they don't even think about threats or subtle manipulation, but he's one of the most malicious imo since it was so cool-headed and planned.

Kind of like the theories about Barbatos and/or Diavolo purposefully sending you to a traumatic death because executing Belphie would cause the brothers to revolt. (Which I believe to extent btw.) Those four stand out as a lot more demonic imo because they can't be called crimes of passion. I miss the days where they both just casually admitted to taking part in a torture dungeon.

Personally I love the idea of unavoidable demonic corruption. Like the "tragic lovers suffering from fate" trope but where the demon isn't just an innocent victim that can't control it at all and MC doesn't just take it happily without consequences.

I'm not against MC suffering the consequences of a demon boyfriend, far from it, but even if you don't go the direct route there's so many ways to do it.

Even just slowly losing your morals because all the demons (and old-ass human with some most likely odd moral quirks, if only from being alive so long in horrible times) around you treat horrible things as something as mundane as breathing. Even if they snap back at least acknowledging it is a huge step up.

I'd be terrified and paranoid 24/7 knowing everyone around me wants to literally eat me and has eaten humans before. Even if they hated the taste or something knowing they're capable of it is scary af.

Like a Beelzebub who truly doesn't mean to hurt MC but doesn't think twice about breaking their beloved pet's bones right in front of them. A Beelzebub that finds it just as hard to avoid eating humans as he did in the intro even when he knows he shouldn't harm MC's family.

Or even just a Beelzebub so wracked by guilt and light on morals that can't bring himself to not always enthusiastically take Belphie's side even when he knows it's hurting MC. A kind of parasitic relationship where Beel guilts MC into staying and helps Belphie trap & manipulate them in ways Belphie could never do by himself.

A Leviathan that finds it increasingly hard to keep his jealously inwards now that he has someone to fight for and can't feel secure unless he can feel their envy. A Belphegor that slowly manipulates MC into abandoning all of their responsibilities and friends until their life is ruined and they have to depend on him.

I get that some of them are a bit harder to do without reminding people of irl abuse they may have faced, namely Satan, Levi, Lucifer, and ofc Asmo, but there are ways to make it more supernatural and less mundane. Besides there are way, way worse otomes out there that don't even market themselves as dark like Obey Me did.

I find it interesting that so much of the fanbase absolutely hates those kind of themes when they're so hard to avoid in otome and it was kind marketed towards people who like it. Like I genuinely wonder how they heard about it and got through demons insulting & trying to kill them in the early days of Obey Me before you knew they got better.

In the end though none of that can really happen without routes imo. Those kind of storylines can't be done well in the 10 seconds of individual interaction we get, even a whole lesson is too little time. And again even people who like darker things might freak out when Asmo's the one doing it or get turned off by Levi so they won't risk their money. It's so frustrating seeing the lost potential and knowing it's probably never gonna happen.

Speaking of I always thought Mammon was pretty robbed too. Not only did he never have the same freedom to harm MC as the others, but he was also directly responsible for their safety. Like sure they'd all be punished, but you have a different mindset when an authority figure constantly makes you aware and you have more chances to bond.

I think even cannon Mammon would've been more dangerous and a lot more rude if he wasn't their babysitter. The others, except Satan & Belphie ofc, probably would've been "nicer" and more controlled knowing Lucifer was breathing down their neck too imo.

Like he does seem less violent and hot-headed than the others, but they're not the same circumstances. Even a while after the pact he'd probably sell MC in an instant if he knew he wasn't going to be severely punished.

A lot of his possessiveness feels like a dog guarding a bone rather than true jealously imo, even when they're doing it as endearing thing. People automatically assuming he was lying when he said he'd rather MC die than be saved by someone else, but was he really at that point? Just because someone is tsundere at times doesn't mean they're incapable of being honest or not that into someone.

That's also kinda what I meant by infatuation too. Like sure they could like a human, but that doesn't mean they'll be that upset when they die or will never get bored. It's kind of like those people that immediately get a new pet after theirs dies, or even before so they don't have to be without a dog for a single second. Or the kind of demon that wants to "ruin" you with their sin until you can't go on as the ultimate act of love, even though they know it'll kill you.

[neochatarra]

8 Untold Signs Of Narcissist People

Sometimes the signs of narcissism aren't so obvious and narcissists fly under our radar. Not every narcissist may be a puffed-up addict or a Mean Girl like Regina George. If they were, we could see the signs from a mile away and steer clear. No, many narcissists are sensitive, thoughtful, and generous – until the charade wears off, of course.

That's why it's so important to know the subtle signs of narcissism that you simply won't notice until it's too late and they've sucked you into their region.

What's the Difference Between an Overt and Covert Narcissist?

Many people tend to consider narcissists as having extroverted personalities. They're flamboyant and demand to be the middle of attention – how are you able to miss them?

The truth is, introverts also can be narcissists. These are those who fool us into their web of manipulation.

"They're not self-absorbed – they're just sensitive!"

"They're not a nasty friend – they're just misunderstood!"

After forming a relationship with a covert narcissist, you realize that this sensitivity and isolation were, in fact, signs of narcissism. Since the signs weren't so obvious, however, you completely misjudged things.

8 Signs of Narcissism You Can't-Miss

Since the covert narcissist is best at hiding their abusive behavior, it's important to know the subtle cues that give them away.

1. They'll Never Utter the Phrase "I Don't Know"

I once knew a narcissist who was so averse to the present phrase that he would rather give someone dangerously incorrect answers than admit to not knowing something. He was confident in his woefully wrong answers, too.

Why do this?

Answering an issue with "I don't know" deprives the narcissist of important attention. The person seeking a solution will simply advance to somebody else who might help them. That's an enormous ego hit.

That's why you'll often find narcissists rambling on about topics they need no business speaking on.

2. They Are A Nasty Friend

The narcissist is usually a nasty friend but you'll typically find them playing the victim. confirm to urge all sides of the story if you're unsure.

What are some red flag signs of narcissism that indicate the suspect may be a narcissist?

• They get irritated when their friends invite help or advice.

• They don't bother to call or text their friends on birthdays or holidays.

• They don't return borrowed items. (A sign of entitlement.)

• They owe their friends money. they'll downplay this as "not an enormous deal."

• They embarrass their friends ahead of others.

• They hunt down or entertain their friends' partners or love interests.

They also treat waitstaff or service workers poorly. This is a dead giveaway. run the hills. Anyone who disrespects waitstaff or service workers views people as "beneath" them. Soon, you'll be a part of the inferiors also.

3. They Need To Insert Themselves Into Every Story

A covert narcissist might not demand everyone's attention. They will, however, still find how to form everything about them. an outsized part of this strategy involves inserting themselves into every story.

Is a coworker talking about their experience with homelessness? The narcissist, too, features a story about being poor.

Is a lover talking about his amazing trip to Vietnam? The narcissist also had a friend who visited Vietnam. And guess what? She heard it wasn't so great.

No matter the subject, the narcissist features a remarkable skill for turning the eye their way – regardless of how innocuous it'd seem.

4. They're Sensitive

At first, you'll appreciate their ability to freely express emotions. this is often an excellent tactic narcissists use to lure empathetic people into their trap.

Maybe a fast-food worker got their order wrong and therefore the narcissist hasn't shut up about it all day. Maybe their boss asked them to prevent playing on their phone such a lot and now the narcissist is crying about it over dinner.

As time goes on, you'll realize that the narcissist isn't vulnerable and sensitive: their fragile ego can't handle honest mistakes and valid criticism. To the narcissist, these are personal attacks.

5. They Form Relationships Based On What Someone Can "Do for Them"

If you're at a celebration and therefore the suspected narcissist suggests you ask someone because they will help together with your career or financial situation, don't ignore it. They aren't trying to assist you: they're letting you in on their game.

Narcissists tend to make shallow friendships that supported what people can do for them. You'll often find narcissists make friends with horribly toxic people simply because these folks have money, own bars, or offers career opportunities.

6. Their Stories Don't Match Reality

Both the overt and covert narcissist has an inflated sense of self. The thing is, they believe their lies. As a result, you'll often find they recall stories much differently than the situations played out.

If you notice that the suspect constantly reframes stories to form themselves the hero or victim, retreat fast – this is often one among the various signs of narcissism. By changing the story to suit their narrative, the narcissist is gaslighting everyone else involved.

It's not cute or funny to constantly need to correct them. Sooner or later, they'll start gaslighting you, too.

7. They Observe and Judge

"There's no way she will be a narcissist. When we're out with friends, she barely says ten words!"

I hear it all the time. By sitting back and observing everyone, however, the covert narcissist is silently taking notes and judging. I'm sure you heard all about her observations on the car ride home.

The narcissist must feel superior to everyone around them. this is often easy to try to do once you don't open your mouth to interact in conversation and instead sit back to require notes about everyone's shortcomings.

8. They Only Hear Bits and Pieces of Your Stories

Does it desire the suspected narcissist just isn't. listening? They're probably not. And if they're, they don't care.

Maybe you spent ten minutes venting to your mother about how you didn't get that promotion at work because you showed up late one solitary time with a legitimate reason. How did she respond? "Well, maybe you'll remember to point out up on time from now on."

You can't be the victim. Only the narcissist is often the victim.

You see this ton with narcissist parents or partners who listen only enough to toss stuff back in your face later.

How to Turn the Tables on a Narcissist?

Perhaps you've gone on a couple of dates with someone or a replacement coworker joined your team. you think they'll be a narcissist but you aren't entirely sure.

After all, the covert narcissist is especially cunning at hiding the more obvious signs of narcissism. Here's the way to turn the tables on a narcissist and obtain them to show themselves.

• Play along. Don't give the suspected narcissist room to regulate their manipulation tactics – play stupid and pretend you completely believe them. Use this chance to document their behavior.

• Remain indifferent. If you want to continue handling an overt or covert narcissist for reasons out of your control, act indifferent to their behavior. The narcissist wants to use your emotions against you. If you don't give them anything to figure with, they'll seek their fix elsewhere.

• Find Support: this might only include one or two people you trust. open up to someone who will validate and believe you.

At the top of the day, the sole thanks to truly turn the tables on a narcissist are to chop them off completely. If that they had any real intentions of adjusting, they might have done so already.

The narcissist won't suddenly see things your way. If they ever do, it's – a) for a fleeting moment and b) to use against you later. Don't believe the conflicting information you would possibly see from other websites or therapists – the narcissist will never change.

With a mental disease, a chemical imbalance within the brain may cause different disturbances that manifest as depression, anxiety, and lots of others. Although complex, mental illnesses tend to reply well to medication because it targets the physical root of the problem: like a chemical imbalance. Though it's been determined that a lot of mental illnesses like depression and anxiety are frequently caused by unresolved emotional trauma, often dating as far back as childhood.

Personality disorders occur due to a repetitive stimuli-reward environment. At some point in their life, the narcissist realized they might elicit specific reactions and emotions from people – and it felt good and helped them achieve their self-fulfilling agendas.

Anything but cutting them out of your life will offer you a mental and emotional breakdown.

No Contact is that the Only Way to Packing Up A Narcissist

Many narcissists have always been this manner – whilst far back as their teenage or childhood years. If you're handling a narcissist, you can't and will not expect them to vary their behavior now or ever.

Treatment for personality disorders often involves things like cognitive behavioral therapy. In many cases, a narcissist can also suffer from other mental illnesses like depression or substance use disorder. (You've probably heard extensively about these problems, too, when the narcissist needs your sympathy or someone responsible .)

ىDespite this, there's little evidence to suggest therapy works for narcissists as personality disorders are notoriously difficult to treat. the primary step to getting assistance is to admit a drag exists – the narcissist will never believe they need or are a drag.

No Contact is that the only option.

Trust in yourself and your network. Because once you get to the opposite side and stick with No Contact, you'll be amazed by all the amazing belongings you can accomplish.

[rpbetter]

Urgh. Okay, full disclosure, I haven't been on tumblr much over the last week or so, because I was one of the people that Raven initially called out after the COAR mess, and it was in the interest of my own mental health to fuck off for a while so I didn't stress myself out into oblivion. So I'm scrolling through most of this stuff for the first time, and talking to other people who were targeted. And pardon my French here, but I'm fucking disgusted at the lengths Raven has gone to assert themselves as a victim, how many people they've affected, and the waving around of something as serious as suicide for brownie points.

I have sympathy for people who overinterpret things in a strictly emotional and mental sense (actual reactions aside) because they lack the maturity. There's always a reason for that, and it's not their fault. And I have sympathy for people if they legitimately feel suicidal. That, too, isn't their fault. If I hadn't been blocked, I would've reported Raven in case their claims were true as well, because yeah, I don't mess around with that stuff either. But what's unacceptable is how Raven acted on those sentiments and behaved towards others, even after people tried to provide perspective. How Raven claimed to be done with the drama, but continued inciting it; how they claimed to be suicidal and had left tumblr, but wrote what amounts to a "fuck you" in their header and were still putzing around on their blog, and were apparently still editing their posts until as late as today; how they claimed to have deleted but only changed the url; how they weaponized all of this stuff and used it as a tool for guilt-tripping. Like, come on. It's okay if you're down in the dumps, but it's not okay to treat innocent people like garbage, and carpet bomb half the RPC. To me, it really feels like there was an intent to weaponize all of their hurt, offense, anger, and suicidal ideations, despite the possibility it did come from somewhere genuine, and that's so harmful to anyone who is actually struggling with depression.

Every time someone weaponizes mental illness in this way, it just makes people more and more apathetic the next time someone is genuinely just hurting, and saying they feel like they're at the end of their rope. And it makes people suspicious of whether those words are being used maliciously, or legitimately. That suspicion and that association is now there, unconscious or not. And every time this kind of stuff happens, the association gets stronger. What happens if Raven does this again? Some people will still report, but some people might just scoff and walk away - people who might've actually acted before. So in a way, that kind of behaviour impacts Raven as much as it impacts other people.

And you know what? They're not the only one dealing with serious shit. I've been suffering from MDD for the last fifteen years, and I've been in the process of changing medications and having little success for months. I've been going through hell offline. I have a shit list of people I want to yell at because they're dragging their feet on really important things I need to function; I'm constantly running a deficit on spoons. Until a week or so ago, roleplay was one of the only ways I could unwind. So for Raven to bully me by sticking that stupid post in my tags, because they needed to make a scene on COAR, which I was obviously going to comment on (like many other people), then to "like" an unsubstantiated callout about me and other innocent people related to that mess, it's only worsened my own mental health. It sounds melodramatic, but really. Someone else mentioned this too, but the fear of being in another callout, and the fear of that first callout somehow exploding, was in the back of my mind all week, despite being away from tumblr. So that was a little anxiety-inducing, much as I tried not to think about it.

And I'm debating whether to return now, or take more time off, and I have no idea what to do. Because that callout post is still in my blog's tag. I'm freaking out because I was planning on approaching some people to roleplay, which is something I rarely ever do, but now I'm concerned that I'll contact someone, they'll look at my tag to get an idea of my writing/partners/who I am, and see the callout post, and immediately dismiss me because even seeing the word "callout" on its own will send up red flags, by unconscious association with more impactful drama. And as long as that callout is up, these fears are going to be there.

That's just not fair.

And Raven's "apology" is completely unacceptable. Like you and others said, it doesn't reach anyone who needs to hear it, because they've all been blocked. I would fucking love an apology if it came from a place of honesty, but am I going to receive one? Probably not. And even for the followers who can still see that apology, it doesn't address anything. It isn't directed to anyone in particular. It doesn't mention the specific behaviours that were wrong on their part. And miss me with the "my intentions were good" part. No, they weren't; going around blocks and sticking shit in peoples' tags is vindictive and entirely intentional in all the worst ways, and shame on them for pretending otherwise, and by leading with such a poor example for many roleplayers, some of whom are in their teens. One of the people who tried to message Raven (they, too, were called out on Raven's blog) was speaking to a nineteen-year old who was completely clueless about the extent of the manipulation Raven was pulling. They thought all of it was normal and acceptable behaviour. That genuinely terrifies me. And while I imagine if Raven was genuinely apologetic, they would've gone to the callout blog and ask them to delete the callout post (attempt it, at the very least), somehow, I don't think that would've happened given all of their prior actions. God forbid something else is going on there.

Phew. Yeah, I'm angry. Maybe I'm just biased and tired. But honestly, I have a right to be. Raven's apology is a handwave, and they know it. It's a slap in the face to me, to you, and to everyone else who was involved in this clusterfuck. They're not the center of the universe. They affected real people, with real problems of their own. Anyways, I am so sorry for this, argh. Really had to get this out, and I didn't want to dump it on discord or somewhere else; I sure as heck didn't want to go to COAR with it. But hey, maybe people here will feel less alone if I added my own account to the mix. The more, the merrier? In a sense, anyways. Sometimes if you feel like you've been singled out, it's nice to know you're not actually the only person it's happened to.

Sorry for saving your reply for last, Anon. It's such an important one, I wanted to be properly thoughtful!

I think that it is going to make some people feel less alone, and there is always some relief in sharing one's trials. That might be especially true when one has been unable to share them anywhere else. It's not like you can address this on your own blog right now, COAR is definitely not a safe place to do so, it's a very isolating feeling that is made worse for having done nothing.

Coming back and being required to wade through this shit was really damn disgusting to me as well, but at least in my case, I had neither been obliged to distance myself for the sake of mental health nor was I treated to the sickening display of drumming up ideas of victimization from someone who victimized me. What I experienced was just incredulity and disgust, I cannot imagine how incensing this must be for you, I am so very sorry. If it makes me angry having a degree of removal and watching in it real time? What you're experiencing...there really isn't a single word to adequately encapsulate that, I'm sure.

You've still expressed so many of the things I've thought and felt. I found all that initial behavior uncalled for, shameful, yet another display of what's actually wrong in the RPC, but it was increasingly upsetting to me the more I looked into it because it did feel a little (a lot) too reminiscent of the sort of bullying experienced in person. It's really something else to be viciously picked at by someone who keeps upping the game until such point as it begins to cause them trouble, then get to be painted the wrongdoer and punished in some way for it because they're presenting as a sympathetic victim. A more sympathetic victim than you, that's really what I mean, I'm just going to say it.

And that was already in swing by the time I got from the launch point to the smoking crater of then current events. I got to Raven's again after bouncing back and forth between their interactions with others, largely from COAR, yes, and the shit on the callout blog...to see...everyone else being blamed in increasingly drastic ways.

Because on tumblr, unlike reality, if you throw out enough times ahead of time that you have disorders people can get behind, you're more sympathetic, not less. So long as one has set that foundation and has others to broadcast it once convenient, any horrible action one undertakes is given a pass. Anyone disagreeing, anyone not tolerating the abuse, is in the wrong now. In the worst possible way, of course.

This whole thing began with incredibly unnecessary bullshit and every, I mean fucking every, further action taken was a new level of fucked up, but the trivializing of and damage done to the perception of mental health and differences is quite possibly the worst. Are those things that need any more of that? It's already such a problem! I already see suspicion and fatigue with this, every time it's given validation, it grows.

Even if I wasn't mentally ill, with one of the disorders that gets vilified even on tumblr, even if I were not autistic, even if I never knew a single person who suffered worse than I do from the the complications they won by way of being born, hadn't anyone I loved that took their lives, this would be extremely upsetting to me. Using the idea that "whatever I do, it's got to be acceptable because I am X" while not caring that anyone else is X, Y, and/or Z. Weaponizing it for bullying and sympathy simultaneously. Way too much. Incredibly gross and harmful, legitimately fucking problematic.

I want people to be taken seriously when they choose to speak of the boundaries their mental health requires, I want muns to be able to say that they are having a difficult time without it coming off (even to the rest of us with mental health conditions) as a ploy for attention/guilting for whatever action they desire be taken by partners, and I want people to take threats of oncoming, serious harm seriously. How are they to do this, when it is continually used as tool or weaponized against others? At very best, it becomes another thing to ignore and scroll by on the dash.

As we've all had the misfortune to experience or witness so recently, once it is weaponized, it's a problem of priority. I've said in damn near every message I've gotten that Raven isn't the only person involved here who has serious shit going on, but like the absurdity with trying to spin an accident as transphobia, or having the audacity to attempt speaking from a place of peace in a way that might benefit everyone, Raven included, resulting in a callout about being against ND people...it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter that any of us are neurodivergent, have serious chronic mental health complications, or are not cisgender. Raven was swinging that around like a flaming sword to drive off bigots real and imagined before we ever got their attention.

Attention they fucking asked for.

Reblogging that post from COAR was just like posting those rules. The intention was to get attention, and it was asked for with extreme hostility. I have no idea how that is coming off to anyone as simply them defending themselves. It was a great moment to either not out themselves as the person in the confession at all, not engage with it, quietly remove the post, or to reblog it and take responsibility in a meaningful way at that point. Can you imagine what a difference that would have made then? If Raven had chosen instead to reblog it and apologize for doing what they had. Just that. No shitty, snide little comments about how they're sorry, but still absolutely correct and here are five reasons why everything they've misconstrued won't be tolerated. Just an acknowledgment of wrongdoing, an apology for doing so, and awareness gained moving forward.

Their decision to interact with that post in the way they did wasn't just more of the same nonsense, it was actively upping the game. I don't really care if it was intentional bait or just continuing to let malicious impulse run free, it was used as bait. Everyone who interacted with that post was effectively consigning themselves to harassment, and if they happened to interact on literally any other topic that group held a passionately opposing opinion on, they were attacked for it. Curiously, it became necessary for them to be harassed by way of the callout blog, but that is getting a little close to off-topic, so, I'll leave it at that.

So, while I initially really wanted to have the appeal to Raven work because their expressions of regret that I was greatly on the fence about being genuine, I'd say those flags were accurate. I cannot believe that someone who took every opportunity to do the wrong thing is genuinely sorry. Sorry for themselves, absolutely, sorry for anything they did, not so much. This constant narrative I got of "they SAID they were sorry" and "they apologized again and again and took the posts down," including from Raven, is incredible. On that last one, they, yet again, couldn't actually address me.

Appropriate response: messaging me or reblogging that post (you know, the rules snippet I found right the hell there still, despite the claim of it being deleted and the final catalyst of me needing to say something after I saw that, nope, surely was not) with the acknowledgment of a single thing I said.

Extra appropriate response: ^ plus going to everyone who could still be located that they harmed with a genuine, individual, private apology.

Inappropriate response that was had: new post, shitty, childish tone like they at once wanted to argue with me and didn't want to drop the act, restating of this apology that had already been deleted and meant exactly shit while it existed, restating of how they deleted this post and couldn't control reblogs, ignoring that I literally reblogged the original copy from their blog.

Apology neither believed nor accepted. Just as it wouldn't be if my nephew came to my house, broke a bunch of my things, said he was sorry while throwing the pieces at my pet, then threw himself on the floor screaming that he said he was sorry when I told him to go have a time out.

(Yes, I absolutely did just make a comparison to a child, y'all can shit yourselves again. It's not my problem if you want to misconstrue "this person's actions are not befitting of an adult" as "Vespertine said autistic people are children!" Fucking miss me with that. I'm an autistic adult who pays my bills, apologizes, doesn't treat people like shit while trying to excuse it by being ND. You're offensive with that shit, and contributing to the negative perception people have of those on the spectrum. Be a good ally today! Don't valid that! Free ninety-nine offer!)

Again, sorry for yourself does not equal being sorry for what you've done. The former can contribute to the development of the latter, but as I said in a response yesterday, there has been no display of that beginning to transpire. I genuinely hope that will eventually be the case because that would be the best outcome, the only "best" outcome at this point. Even if it was two years from now, if it did happen, I certainly would not be kind to people refusing them any such growth in peace, and I hope that, by some distant chance, I get to prove that.

But...stating "my intentions were good" over any part of this is not remotely promising. When? Where? At what point? Oh, right, when you took it upon yourself to label a random mun you took issue with. That's when your intentions were good. Then, when you vehemently needed to defend that point by callouts and individual attacks under the guise of it definitely not being about your pride, no! It was the defense of everyone else! Defending the community by carpet-bombing it, yes. This is not a "the path to Hell is paved with good intentions" situation.

I am so disturbed about the nineteen-year-old mun, my god. I'm telling y'all, my anger and disgust almost reach what I think is a pinnacle, then there's something new like this.

I don't even subscribe to tumblr's ideology that anyone under twenty-five is an actual infant who needs be kept in a protective bubble and forgiven for all bad behavior with infinite kindness, nineteen-year-olds deserve the agency of the adultier adults they are becoming, but it is a transitional age. Especially today. Most socialization and formative ideas take place online, and by the time younger RPers are entering the adult sphere of RP here, they've already got some really unhealthy ideas. About themselves, about others. There is such a demand for rabidly performative action that gets internalized, it shouldn't be being heartily fed by people in the community they might look up to.

At that age, someone like Raven is going to be a person looked up to. They espouse all the right ideas, and it's an age in which aggressive interaction over those things is seen as amusing and correct, no matter how wrong the actions taken are or the basis upon which they are founded. When these people foster an environment of cruelty for questioning, of course, that is not going to be the natural response. The response is now going to be the requirement of being told otherwise with adequate proof.

I have suspected that many of the hateful anons I've gotten were from Raven's even younger followers who feel like it's normal, acceptable, and that everything they're being told by Raven's sales team over at the callout blog is absolutely true. Of course, they're now morally obligated to come harass me for the things they were told I did! I think it's likely that several of the anons people got were from actual minors, which is so many levels of scary and irresponsible. Really great example all around, yes!

Because whether it is one's intention or not, that is potentially exposing minors, or muns who are still close enough to be more negatively impacted, to who even knows what. As well as violating the rules of blogs who do not interact with minors for good reason, setting those blogs up for yet another callout for treating someone they didn't know was a minor the way they did or having "freak shit" on their blog. Setting up the other party to be treated with full hostility as an adult would be. Very cool, very responsible.

There is just so much here that is unacceptable, I don't think people who were not directly impacted or have never had a callout against them understand the results, and that is one more unacceptable thing you've been good enough to talk about.

Even while taking a break from the RPC, it affects you negatively. Wondering what you're coming back to, your blog is no longer a safe feeling space, and there's nothing you can do to "cultivate your blog" to change that. They've taken away the ability to simply block and avoid others, the thing that keeps all of us comfortable here as well as allowing that to be all of us no matter how disagreeable we might be to each other. Callouts negate adult behavior. Callouts mean that one doesn't know where more potential for harassment might be coming from, or how long we might have to be worried about that.

It would be a major concern for me as well about what putting myself out there to new writing partners might bring. What the success of that might be. It's incredibly unfair that they've made finding new people precarious and more unpleasant than it can be anyway. That puts all of the future of your RP here in question, and if you're like me, just dropping a muse, picking up another, and moving to a new URL isn't going to be a good choice for you. It isn't that simple if you dedicate time to a muse for a long period of time, when that's the case, that's the RP you want to do and have laid the groundwork for.

I don't know if it will help at all, but it has seemed to me, over the past several days, that there are fewer people in the RPC who are inclined to believe or support callouts than there once was. I was hoping that was the case, since there is always so much interaction on my posts against callout culture, but until this crap went down, I had no idea just how many people are not positive toward it. It has seemed to be that the people who are inclined to listen to callouts are just louder.

I've also noticed that those people have the same set of red flags, so maybe sharing that will help you or others?

They don't have simple, basic, reasonable Do Not Interacts. It isn't simply asking that minors don't interact because the mun is over eighteen, that muns writing a triggering topic not interact, or that sort of thing. No, it's URL dropping of specific muns, outright links to callouts or "receipts," and an accusatory tone about any topics or types of muns who shouldn't interact. Such as "nasty ass proshippers" or "pedo apologists shipping incest."

Their rules are reflective this as well. A statement cannot be made that they do not write, let's say, toxic ships and left at that. There will be some morality wank present about normalizing or romanticizing toxic/abusive relationships.

There are less assured flags, but literally, anything that stands out as an interest in RPC or fandom-based activism as opposed to an interest in writing, their muses, or even their friendships with a variety of muns. I don't mean a rounded-out interest in things, I really do mean a glaring predominance of buzzword-laden reblogs and PSA's while they've not written a reply, headcanon, or answered a meme in months.

I'm not saying any of that because I feel like you, or anyone else's, judgment is terrible or that you're oblivious to warning signs! It's just that when we've experienced bad situations, it can compromise our ability to see clearly. It becomes easy to see a potential threat everywhere, and maybe that seems contrary, but it's then easy to fail to see real threats from those we're blowing up. We question whether we're being just as judgmental as the people who wronged us, putting words in other muns' mouths and thoughts in place of their own as was done to us. While we still are afraid to be wrong in giving someone an in to ruining our time again.

So, please, don't feel like I'm questioning your intelligence or speaking from a place of ultimate knowledge, never making mistakes in such a choice! I just really hate that you, and many others, are going through this, and anything at all that I can think of that might help you move forward from this utter bullshit you've been through, I've got to try to grab it.

Because, Anon, like all those sharing their experiences these last few days, you sound like the kind of mun we need in the RPC.

You're someone willing to share with others for the benefit of others. You're being honest about your feelings of anger and even the hopeless sensation of whether it's even worth it to try to return, having your progress on and offline stomped on, while still maintaining a sort of fairness and calm that I know is not easy. Because that's the mature thing to do, it's the right thing, and unfortunately, those are usually the harder things to do as well.

You did the right thing in expressing your opinion and doing what people like Raven's group love to be on about, can only do through bullying: not tolerating it. I'd hate for the RPC to lose someone like you!

Just as your message matters to more people out there than myself, I have no doubt that your choice to not quietly allow this behavior mattered to more muns than you'll ever know. I'm sure that none of them would have wanted this result for you, but so many muns have experienced such toxic, bullying behavior over the years in which not a soul spoke up.

Many of you proved something very important with challenging Raven and the callouts blog, that unlike them, it isn't necessary for good people to even know each other to do the right thing. They have to dogpile and engage in cliquish behavior, what they do isn't coming from a place of inner ethics and strength, but what you all did? It's the opposite.

So, not only do I thank you again for sharing and providing the important support of simply not being alone to others, I thank you for being the example to the RPC that people dealing in callouts and generalized shaming cannot be, no matter their platform.

I hope that, whether you choose to remain, leave, or take a very long break, everything you've been dealing with starts to look up. I know it's easy to say things made hollow for their repetition and flippant use, like telling you not to let them win, or that their bullshit just isn't that important. So, I'm not going to say them.

It doesn't work that way when you're dealing with mental health concerns! You can logically know that this is just petty bullshit not worth being run out of something important to you, but that doesn't stop the worry, frustration, or depression. You can have all the determination in the world to hang in there, even the spite to back it up, but neither is a match for the things you cannot control coming from your brain. That is the cruelty of mental illness on the very best of days.

You have all of my respect, support, and genuine sympathy that this happened to you. No one should be allowed to continually and unapologetically go out of their way to throw a wrench into someone's hard-won progress. You did nothing to deserve this, and the people out there worth interacting with are going to be the same ones who will have no question of that.

Lastly, I also hope that some of the anons sharing their experiences have helped you feel less alone, or like you're not just irrationally upset. Please know that you're seen and supported as well! And that you are always welcome to talk more, vent, share successes here.

Thank you, Anon.