#i just think these situations and ambiguities are more fun to discuss

[pikahlua]

Wow, okay, I’ve seen a bit of the translation drama now, and I regret to say a lot of people who very clearly do not know how to speak Japanese are being extremely polarizing about some perfectly acceptable word choices in the official manga. This is precisely the sort of stuff I hoped to help minimize when I started doing my translations. It’s been a while since I had to put out a warning like this, so I’ll do it now.

Be careful about getting too married to a particular word choice in English. A lot of word choices are very much up to a translator’s discretion. Language is fluid, and Japanese lends itself particularly well to puns and wordplay.

For example (and this is a particularly good example to explain my point), let’s talk about this panel:

Re: this post

Which leads into what seems to be the crux of the matter: Toga's "love." I've noted in passing before that having her use the word "suki" to describe this love is very curious. It's just an adjective that means something is the object of your affection. It's not a specific word for love like the nouns "ai (love, but broadly)" or "koi (romantic love)" are. "Suki" is just as often translated as "like" as it is "love."

In the above panel, we have the phrase “suki na mono wo suki to iu” (which I translated as “you tell those you like that you like them.”) The word “suki” is being used as an adjective to modify “mono.” However, there is an interesting nuance that is impossible for me to convey in an English translation!

The word “mono” can mean both “(tangible) thing” and “person.” Usually we can tell the difference based on context and the use of the correct kanji. BUT THERE IS NO KANJI USED IN THE ABOVE PANEL. The effect is that what this “mono” refers to is ambiguous. Is it the “things Toga likes” or the “people Toga likes”? It’s not clear: which means that both readings are correct! In fact, the word is probably meant to include BOTH meanings. “All things or people Toga likes.”

And the reason I can’t properly translate that into English is because I have no word that refers to such a thing. In English, it’s a question of “what Toga likes” vs “whom Toga likes,” but in Japanese BOTH meanings are captured by just one phrase.

The most accurate and extremely awkward translation in English would just be “You say who and what you like.” It’s not really something a person would say naturally, especially depending on the context of the conversation surrounding the phrase.

Additionally, “suki” is a very vague word that can be translated in many ways. It gets translated into English as various words all the time. I just decided to go with “like,” but “love” or “dear” would be just as viable. Like I said, it’s kind of up to the translator’s discretion. (And think about the corollary in English. “Like” may not usually mean “love,” but if you were in high school and told someone, especially of the opposite sex, “I like you,” “like” suddenly takes on a whole new meaning.)

Anyways, the whole point of this is that I just want to caution people against jumping to conclusions about these things, especially as you encounter disagreements about such things by fans in the wild. It may be true that a translator has a particular agenda they’re trying to push that runs counter to the message of a story, but it may also be a much more honest and correct translation than you expect. And if you ever need it, I’m always happy to give my perspective on a specific translation to point out the more charitable and non-charitable interpretations, the potential ambiguities, the nitty-gritty grammar issues, etc. (to the best of my ability, of course--I am not a final arbiter on these things either, just another learner myself).

[featherquillpen]

Gained in Translation

I speak four languages (at varying degrees of fluency) and do translation both for smooth and peaceable family reunions and for fun, with works of literature I enjoy. It's practically a truism at this point that meaning gets lost in translation; in fact, I'm currently reading an excellent book, Babel by R.F. Kuang, in which there is magic powered by the meaning lost in translation. But a topic I hardly ever hear anyone discuss is how meaning can be gained in translation.

Example 1: References

A type of meaning that can be gained in translation is that when you translate from language A to B, you can make references to other texts in language B that the person who wrote the original in language A wouldn't have been aware of. Here is an example from a translation I did of a Pablo Neruda poem:

Yo te recordaba con el alma apretada

de esa tristeza que tú me conoces.

I remembered you with my soul gripped

by the tragic ordeal of being known by you.

These lines in Spanish reminded me a lot of the meme based on the viral New York Times article about how you need to submit to the mortifying ordeal of being known in order to reap the rewards of being loved. So I decided to make a subtle reference to that quote in the way I phrased the English translation. This meaning, of course, doesn't exist in the original Spanish; I added it in.

Example 2: Meaningful Distinctions

Meaning is often gained in translation because the target language makes a distinction that the source language does not. The translator has to choose one side of that distinction, and so meaning is gained.

Here is an example from the Spanish localization of the Japanese RPG Fire Emblem: Three Houses. There are two unlockable scenes in which the character Hubert is given a gift as a romantic gesture. Now, I don't speak Japanese, but through reading the analyses and translations done by Japanese speakers, and by checking for consistency in the kanji, I can see that the same word for "gift" seems to be used throughout these scenes. However, in Spanish, there are multiple words for "gift" with rather different connotations, which becomes relevant in the localization.

In Spanish, there is no generic word for "gift" that applies in every situation. There is a distinction made between gifts that are personal, between people who care about each other, and gifts between people who are not close, such as charitable gifts and formal gifts given to a diplomat. The translators of the game had to choose which of these words to use in the Spanish, and they used the distinction to add some very interesting meaning to these romantic scenes.

In each scene, what happens is that Hubert notices the person has a gift and comments on it, thinking it's for somebody else. In these lines, in Spanish, Hubert uses the personal intimate word for gift. Then, when he finds out the gift is for him, and reacts very awkwardly, he switches to a formal word for gift, creating an emotional distance between himself and the romantic token. This is excellent characterization and adds a layer of meaning in translation.

Example 3: Meaningful Ambiguity

Sometimes, the opposite phenomenon occurs, where the target language does not make a distinction that the source language does, and that ambiguity or vagueness adds something to the translation.

I have a Finnish friend who has told me that fiction that plays with gender is often more meaningful for him in Finnish translation than in the source language, because Finnish does not have gendered third person pronouns. Where books like The Left Hand of Darkness or Ancillary Justice have to make a conscious decision about which gendered pronoun to use for characters that fall outside the Western gender binary (The Left Hand of Darkness uses "he" and Ancillary Justice uses "she"), the Finnish translations can just use the default neutral pronoun they use for everyone, and never have to resolve that ambiguity in any direction. My friend has told me that there are some books about non-gender-normative characters that he wishes he'd read in Finnish instead of English because the experience would have felt more authentic in some ways.

What It Means

The reason why I bring all of this up is that the concept of meaning lost in translation is tied to the idea of translation as an act of violence. Indeed, there is a saying in Italian, "Traduttore, traditore," which means "Translator, traitor." I agree that translation can definitely be an act of violence that destroys the intended meaning of a text and warps it to suit the needs of the speakers of the target language. But when we focus only on what is lost in translation, at the expense of what is gained in translation, then we deny that translation can be an act of liberation and power.

I was raised in a bicultural household speaking both English and Spanish, and when I translate between these languages, it makes me feel empowered and proud of my heritage. It feels insulting to me to claim that when I translate, I can only ever deplete the meaning. That is not true. Every translation requires a translator, and we are more than thieves and traitors. We are more, even, than archivists, trying to minimize loss and decay as much as possible. We are creatives and inventors who can add something beautiful and meaningful to the text via our translations.

[cu7ie]

what do you think toman boys are like in relationships like loyal or nah

content: discussions of cheating, general relationship head canons and love language discussion towards the end.

I think Mikey doesn't cheat because he's lazy. The kinds of relationships he likes are ones of great emotional depth and the actual physical steps required to find someone suitable, hide it from you or eventually break it off is too much. Doesn't have the mental capacity for that level of espionage, the emotional strength to lie to someone's face like that. Toman Mikey does not have that dog in him, Draken has taught him too well. Bonten Mikey has no problem fucking other people however! Not a sad thought in his mind or tear in his eye, might even think about you while he's going at it and wonder if you'd notice the taste of someone else on his lips when he gets back to ya. Sanzu seems like a hopeless romantic with obsessive and possessive tendencies. I don't think he'd cheat but he also has high expectations and probably strict rules for a partner. Doesn't like overly friendly touches and certain attitudes.

Respectfully, I think Bonten Sanzu fucks other people and will laugh in your face about it. But his inclination to do it more rests solely on the idea of it bothering you; he likes making you upset and to some extent grows irritated with the idea he's so invested in you emotionally that a chunk of his pleasure is derived with tormenting you in such a way, but it's a vicious cycle... He finds a soft body to indulge in, but can't help but think of you while doing it.

Nahoya fucks man. I mean.. like I don't think he really pursues concrete relationships in the first place. He likes something ambiguous he can't put a name to, the fun of it is the attention, you know? It's the assurance of something he can come back to, because if nothing ever starts it can't end.

Souya is the complete opposite of his brother. Sometimes he can put in a lot of faith in little time, and he can turn up with the shit of the stick right - and it's the worst, because he can't help but be so genuine. He's just not a liar, doesn't have it in him really.

I think Draken is very loyal. I don't think he'd cheat like cheating on Emma with you or vice versa.

He's very reliable, he's sticking around just because he thinks it's the proper thing to do. Even if he was in love with someone else entirely, if he has an obligation to a partner he will honor that first and foremost.

I think that Baji is… questionable? It's not emotional cheating he'd participate in, I just feel like he's a simple-minded, high sex drive kinda guy. He'll feel... bad about hurting you so much, but also has trouble comprehending why it might hurt. He loves you, isn't that more important? If you don't care that he has sex with other people, y'all should be cool.

Kazutora is possessive above all. I think he considers you less and more about how he needs to keep you close to him more, and he really does like you, just works harder and not smarter.

I think takemitchy is very loyal.. but idk .... I feel like ....

He's only loyal to Hina because she's the only girl interested in him. I feel like if he had Catherine situation - like there was a girl trying to seduce him away from Hina, he'd eat some shit like that up. He's brainless. Not entirely a dick-thinker but he doesn't always use the right head you know???

Mitsuya and Chifuyu are pretty straight laced. Their dedication to people is obvious in canon relationships and I don't think much changes beyond that! I think they differ in their demonstrations of affection, however:

Mitsuya performs acts of service and is a huge gift giver, especially after he gets into design and fashion in his later years. Too often though, sometimes he can neglect a good old fashioned 'i love you' in favor of grandeur and extravagance. He hopes that in any case, you'll love the things he gives you - knowing he didn't get gifts a lot growing up, it's more important to him than you'd think.

Chifuyu is an opposite to him. He is very open with saying I love you to the point where he'll say it in front of other people and follow it up with a kiss (or six), and most regularly he can be overbearing with his PDA - forgoing gifts to emphasize spending time with you and physically being there for you.

[tessarionbestgirl]

"Aegon is injured and Aemond may or may not have something to do with the fact". This is what Aemond's actor said regarding ep 5. Therefore, we don't know for sure what Aemond wanted or didn't want to do at Rook's Rest so we are again in for a guessing game. And this is one of my problems with the show. They think they are being oh so mysterious and whatnot with this kind of "storytelling" but the truth is that it's just extremely frustrating. The characters have very little screentime (aemond has less than 3 minutes per episode ffs), a lot of important events are just skipped and what little we see is unclear and ambiguous so I have to guess or create headcanons. Like, sorry, but I'm not interested in this. Idk, this show and everything related to it just leaves me annoyed, confused or even angry. What's your experience regarding this?

I understand the annoyance and frustration over this aspect of the show because big part of my dislike for Fire & Blood comes from exactly that same reason. Is a fake story book that I don't even know if half of it is true or not with countless inconsistencies regarding war events and ambiguities about characters motivations.

And a adaptation can only be to a extension better or worse than the source material. So Ryan and his team, have in hands a complicated situation. I know he says to the public that he approached the material as being green propaganda. But he is lying, a lot of things he does with TB to me are prove of that. A lot of pr for House of the dragon is all about what they want you to believe for now what their intentions are. So if we take a lot of what they say in face value we are being lied to. So any HC you and I could created base on that is just end feeling like a betrayal and pointless.

But the final product speaks for it self more than the actors or Ryan or Sarah. Because they did lay ground for the conclusion of the story to be " in war there is truly never a winner" and one of the core of the story from George idea is to end with you questioning who was the right side or the dance.

They say for exemple the it was recorded dubious if Daemon or Aemond actions are intentional or not. But we also see they feeling guilty over it. S1 had a big discussion on the fandom over Daemon taking Rhaenyra to the brothel was intentionally done to tarnish her honor or not, and this season we see him feeling guilty over it, same with B&C same with Aemond and Luke's situation.

Whatever, if this is intention to adapt the the questionable reality of book or make people speculate who is justified or not. That end up just add to a theme on the show,in witch, is about how the intentions don't matter and will not matter in the end. Viserys all him wanted was have a peaceful family life but as Alicent said "he intentions died with him" and that goes for all characters.

Aemond always felt he deserved the crown more than Aegon, maybe he wanted to hurt his brother but he is willing to pay the price of killing his own brother and become the monster that history eventually will paint him to be? That is what they are trying to say with Heleana asking him that and Alicent growing fear of what her son is becoming.

So I will say that my problem with this subject is way less annoying in the show than in the book and while in part I find fun to speculate over those dubious thing they do, I also feel uncertaint over what they will do with those characters, this season I am very scared of the possible out come for Alicent as character. And I certainly despite the fandom discourse that is generated by the "open in the air" scenes. I think that is the factor that frustrating me the most. Because there was a time where was fun to engage on public conversations about media. But HOtD fandom is so toxic and lack any media literacy that even end up affecting how I sometimes interact with the fandom and watch the show.

And that is a big irony of it all because I sure despite Ryan intensions and how he will end the show. The fandom will not change their mind of who is the true winner/justified and what the story is about.

[creampuffqueen]

I saw that post you reblogged about being open to followers asking about your fanfics, so I'm going to take you up on that. I wanted to ask if you have a favorite among the works you did for the Yangvik Week, but maybe that would be too unfair. So my question is: can you tell us what you, the author, like about each of those works specifically, or if you have a favorite line from them? (Bonus: was there a challenging part?) It's always so interesting to hear a writer be meta about their process! Thank you 🩵

Ahhh thank you so much for asking!!! You’re right, choosing a favorite would be very difficult and would probably end in like. A 3 or 4 way tie lol. But i would absolutely love to share my thoughts on my fics and some of the behind-the-scenes things about writing them!!

Gonna go ahead and put this under a cut because i have zero doubt it will get very long haha. Read on for even more yangvik ramblings :) 

Cover Story: 

The part about this fic that was the most fun to write and the part that was the most difficult to write happened to be the same thing - figuring out their secret mission. I truly have to give my props to f.c yee here; writing spy missions is not as easy at it seems! I had to figure out a realistic way to get Yangchen and Kavik alone in a room together, AND in a situation where their only way out was to kiss, without it feeling too contrived. Which meant I was having to think of backups for my backups. A lot of “okay, here’s a way they could get out - how can I make that way impossible?” I truly am quite proud of how it all turned out in the end!

Another favorite part was undoubtedly writing Kavik being absolutely head over heels the entire time. It was the first time I’d written from his perspective, and his head is quite fun to be in. His pining definitely created a few of my favorite lines from this one, such as “In this room full of beautiful things, she’s still the most captivating.” Or “The glow from the fire makes her gray eyes look like molten pools of silver. For a moment, Kavik nearly forgets where he is.”

Also, this entire interaction: ““I think we’re a bit past caring about how I feel about a plan; tell me what it is.”

“You need to kiss me.”

“What?!””

I made myself absolutely cackle with delight when I wrote it. It was so fun.

And then I’ve already shared in another post how I ended up entirely rewriting the entire kiss scene. It just wasn’t hitting in the way I wanted, and I’m much, much happier with how it turned out when I wrote it the second time.

I’ve also particularly enjoyed seeing peoples’ interpretations of this one! Some people think that Yangchen is totally oblivious to how hard Kavik is crushing, while others think she totally knows but is pretending not to. I won’t give an answer as to which is correct, because I think it adds a lot more to be ambiguous enough that it could go either way!

i can’t read your mind (though i’m trying all the time):

Little warning here because this fic is nsfw, so if you’re not comfortable with that topic of discussion feel free to hop ahead to the next section!

I think of all the fics i wrote for yangvik week, this one was the most challenging. I came up with the premise for this fic (yangvik bathtub sex) well before yangvik week, but planning out my fics for the event gave me the motivation to actually Write It. But even after decided I wanted to write it, I spent a lot of time waffling around with it, not totally sure how I wanted to take it. Add in at the time I was really struggling with my self confidence as a writer, and that led to me just being generally unhappy with the whole thing. 

What ended up happening was that I put it on the back burner for a bit, wrote some of my other fics for the event, and then came back to it. Having finished some other fics gave me the little boost I needed to push past the corner I’d stuck myself in (what felt like at the time endless dialogue) and finally write the whole thing. 

Random side tangent: i did not write my yangvik week fics in order lol. It ended up being Day 1-4-2-3-5-6

Anyway. Favorite bits? Quite a few haha

“Yangchen’s eyes don’t leave his, stormy gray meeting ocean blue. Kavik would drown in them if she’d let him.” <- I posted this one as a snippet but I still just love it so much. They’re so utterly whipped for each other it’s crazy.

““Kavik, I’m tired,” Yangchen breathes.

His lips still. “Do you want me to stop?”

A pause. Then, slowly, she drags their joined hands upwards until one of his palms is cupping her breast, showing him where she wants to be touched.

“No. Don’t stop.””

^ I had been planning out this specific bit pretty much since I got the idea for this fic. So I’d been hanging onto this for a few months. Finally getting to write it down was so incredibly satisfying. I HAVE to write my scenes in chronological order. Sometimes if I have ideas for single lines or specific words I want to use I’ll write them down just so I remember, but if it’s an entire exchange like this I force myself to wait for it.

I originally intended to write this fic going at an even slower pace, which looking back now is kinda crazy haha. It’s already got quite a slow buildup. But when I was writing I came to the conclusion that things needed to heat up at least a little bit, hence all the heavy making out that happens. 

“Seated above him, Yangchen has to look downwards in order to connect their gazes. A queen sitting on her throne.” <- I was very proud of this line and the imagery it evokes, and I was very glad to hear that others felt the same! I had several people point out just how much they liked this part, and it’s always very gratifying as a writer to hear that a scene created the feelings you were going for.

The premise of this fic is basically Yangchen going “I want that man on his knees and whimpering” and Kavik going “yes ma’am”

Another random fun fact: it’s a blink and you’ll miss it kinda mention, but the thing that brings them both over the edge during this is making eye contact with each other ;) 

And last but not least, I find it very funny that this fic is the most popular of my yangvik week fics, at least according to the stats on ao3. It has by far the most comments, kudos, and hits. By a long shot. 

Oh my god, you guys are so horny!!! (says the horny bitch who wrote the fic)

Anywayyyyyyy

i’m glad i get forever to see where you went:

So, although this fic was certainly the one with the darkest topic, I think I enjoyed writing it the most. It was an extremely cathartic write, and while I was writing it the words just seemed to flow nonstop. The whole fic came so easily to me, and with very little prior planning. Part of it might be that it was a very different writing style than what I usually use, with it being a more broad overview of an ongoing situation rather than one specific point in time. I really enjoy fics written in that style, and I was very excited to finally create one of my own!

Now for some random notes about the content of the fic itself. I don’t think I mentioned this in the end notes of the fic itself, but there is a reason that Yangchen and Kavik are living near the Eastern temple rather than the Western. In some random, older A:TLA media, it was said that Yangchen retired to the Eastern Air Temple, and she spent her last few years living in a hermitage near the temple. I suppose that narratively it makes more sense for her to live in the west, but I decided to go with it to sort of keep it ‘canon compliant’. I wonder if that will ever get retconned now that we have more content about Yangchen.

But I digress. A part I really enjoyed about this fic was being able to intersperse all the heavy moments with little tidbits that show just how much these two love each other. Even aside from the big, grand, devotion that they show, I also liked showing that they still flirt, they still banter, they still cuddle and watch the sunset together. Just casual moments of a long-time love. 

“Life continues on, though. The endless wheel of time won’t stop turning, even for the most powerful being in the world.” <- Very proud of this line. It just came to me right in the moment and it felt so perfect. 

“Perhaps a part of him is just hoping they’ll adjust. She’s still Yangchen, whip-smart and compassionate and always ready with a quick remark. She’s still every bit the woman he fell in love with, just a bit more forgetful these days. They’ll get through it, surely.” <- Again, very proud of this part. It accomplished several things I wanted to convey: showing the passage of time, as this isn’t something that just happens overnight. It’s a slow, progressive thing. Also adding in some more slightly positive views of Yangchen, as I’d just put her through a whole lot in the previous scenes and felt I needed to add a reminder that despite it all, she’s still Yangchen. And lastly, also adding in Kavik’s sense of desperation that things get better. Or, at least, that things don’t get any worse.

“He loves her, though. The world is always changing, and nothing is ever constant. The deepest truth that he knows in his life is this: He loves Yangchen with everything he has, for everything she is.

He loves her. He squeezes her hand while she sleeps, finally at peace for a change, and hopes that it’s enough.”

^ Yet another part I love. I just really loved my writing in this whole fic. I don’t really have much to add but I just had to put it here because I love it so so much.

Now, for the final scene. I was considering having this not be the last scene. I was going to make it worse. I had a few ideas, all incredibly angsty. Something like Yangchen getting hurt (working ideas were her leaving the fire on and forgetting about it or getting into a situation where she needed to bend a certain element but forgetting she could bend it) or her actually forgetting Kavik’s name for little bit. But in the end it didn’t feel right for the direction I wanted to take this. I wasn’t writing angst for angst’s sake. I didn’t want to end the fic on such a bitter note, on a feeling that all was lost for good. There needed to be some hope still left. Which is why I ended up going the direction I did with it. 

I was veryyyyyy proud of myself for the total genius moment I had in the final scene. Namely, Yangchen starting to return to herself when Kavik hands her the glider. It’s very subtle because in these kind of situations, it’s not like the person comes back to the present all at once. It’s very gradual. But, if you read closely, Yangchen begins to calm down when she gets the glider. Both because it’s something familiar and personal, and because it’s meant to mirror the scene in Legacy where Kavik originally hands her back her glider. Now, in order for this to happen, I had to backtrack very far to get this moment. Like; okay, Kavik hands Yangchen the staff and it helps. Why does he bring the staff with him? Oh, what if he’s using it as a cane! But wait, I never wrote him as needing a cane in previous scenes. Ah, he gets out of bed too fast and pinches a nerve in his back! (sorry Kavik).

And last but not least, the final scene, where Yangchen finally admits out loud how scared she is and she and Kavik both cry, probably has to be my favorite scene of this entire fic. Possibly one of my favorite scenes that I’ve ever written. It was so incredibly cathartic to write. I’m being completely truthful when I say I teared up while writing it. Yes, it was incredibly devastating, but very beautiful in its own way. It was just the culmination and release of all the heartbreak earlier in the fic, and gave way to the wonderful moment of Kavik promising to always be there for her, whether she remembers him or not, which is everything she needs to hear in that moment. I just really love it.

Breakfast and a Braid:

This one was pretty short and sweet so there isn’t a whole lot to say about it writing wise haha. I think the biggest challenge was getting them to the point where Kavik could talk about what he was doing while braiding her hair without the situation feeling too forced or awkward. I think I ended up doing okay, though!

Also while writing this and looking through the fic I realized that I mentioned the gong of Jonduri… the gong is in Taku. *facepalm* I’m gonna have to go fix that at some point. Whoops. 

When Yangchen says that she doesn’t remember breakfast being delivered, it’s meant to imply that she was sleeptalking again, the way she did to Boma at the beginning of Legacy. And I’m not sure why but I enjoy the way I wrote her waking up at the start of the fic. I think it’s just some funny imagery, of her startling awake and throwing her papers everywhere.

Another thing about the writing process of this one is that the part that goes “Tangles removed, Kavik draws his hands smoothly through her thick tresses. Yangchen nearly arches into his hand, like a cat-goose getting its back scratched. If she could purr she’d probably be doing it.” actually had a duplicate paragraph written a few paragraphs before it. I’m very glad I read through this one again, because that would have been awkward lol. I ended up liking the second use of it more, so I rewrote the paragraph earlier in the fic so I could keep it in this spot. Still not totally sure how I basically managed to copy an entire paragraph without realizing it!

“Still, she can’t resist reaching behind her to grab at his collar, dragging Kavik towards her for a proper kiss. He puts up no resistance, grinning softly as Yangchen presses their lips together.” <- and of course, writing kisses is one of my favorite things, so it’s no surprise that it’s one of my favorite lines in this fic :) 

Something Nice:

Not entirely sure why, but of the 6 fics that i posted for yangvik week, this is probably my least favorite 😭😭. Again, no idea why. Like i can’t even pinpoint what i don’t like about it, but whenever i compare it to the others i wrote i just feel. Kinda ‘eh’ about it.

I am however still patting myself on the back for the bit about the wool on the kuspuk being from Nujian’s older sister. I very clearly remember having this complete enigma while planning it out and being like ‘YES ITS PERFECT IM A GENIUS!!!’. So that’s definitely a positive.

Other positives include writing some team Yangchen shenanigans. I really love Yangchen’s team avatar in the books, and so whenever i can i try and include them in my writing, even if it’s just a little mention. But being able to include full on conversations in this fic was very fun.

Although I don’t feel completely satisfied with how this fic turned out (again, for reasons I’m honestly not quite sure of) I do still have a favorite line. That being “Even after she calms, a small part of her wants to stay there forever, held in the little bubble of Kavik’s embrace, safe from the needs of the world.”. I just loved showing how safe Yangchen feels when she’s with Kavik, and how she can just be herself around him. 

The other part i really enjoyed writing with this one was the PINING. Oh the pining. It’s always so delicious. And then the moment at the end where Jujinta interrupts them hehe. I’m definitely a sucker for the ‘moment interrupted’ trope… which i’m now realizing might be a bit obvious considering my other works… oh… oh dear…

darlin’, oh, you see i’ve never felt this way before:

Almost all of my writing is very ‘flying by the seat of my pants’ style as I very rarely go into anything with a concrete plan, but this one was EXTRA off the top of my head. I had a vague idea and a vibe to go off of when I started writing, and I’m pretty pleased with the results!

A few highlights of writing this include: contriving ways to get Kavik shirtless, letting the air nomads be the thirsty mouthpiece of the fandom, and pretending I’m back in middle school and turning absolutely everything into a ‘that’s what she said’ joke

I included this fun fact in the notes on the ao3 version but if you only read it on tumblr you might have missed it! When Kavik is playing the string game with the kids and he makes a shape called ‘the polecat-wolverine’ it is for multiple reasons. 1. ‘The wolverine’ is an actual shape that can be made during the real life string game that Inuit and other Indigenous groups play, and 2. The name ‘Kavik’ means wolverine! He was showing the kiddos how to make his name :) 

I also loved getting to include some more air nomad culture in my writing. The ‘holy day’ they are celebrating is completely made up, but loosely inspired by the Thai Buddhist festival of Songkran. As well, the nature of many of the conversations in this fic led me to basically do a deep dive into how i think the 4 nations view sex, desire, sexuality, etc. Which then led me to retroactively go in to throw in some demisexual Yangchen vibes, which is my personal headcanon of her sexuality.

I think the biggest challenges in writing this fic were, first of all, having little more than a vibe as my concept, and then also figuring out how to spin the ‘jealousy’ prompt into a way that I liked. I very much wanted to stay away from the usual interpretation of jealousy, as I simply don’t think it fits Yangchen and Kavik’s relationship with each other. So I did my best to show that Yangchen isn’t jealous of the other nuns because they’re ‘trying to steal her man’ or that she’s jealous and thinks Kavik will like another girl more than her or anything like that. She’s jealous because she already has to share so much of herself with the world, and doesn’t want to share what she has with Kavik as well. She isn’t at all threatened by other women appreciating his good looks, but she gets very bothered when the conversation starts veering towards more personal things about him. Hence why she stops the teenagers’ conversation when one of them mentions his ‘dreamy eyes’ when the other two had previously been saying far more suggestive things.   

Yet another challenging part of this write was when I decided I wanted to go down the love confession route. I wanted to make it clear that it WAS a love declaration, but without an ‘I love you’. Again, I feel very strongly that Yangchen and Kavik never fully define their relationship. It just… is. So it was a fun challenge to try and write something akin to a confession/declaration without going the typical route. I did consider having them say the Big L Word, but I couldn’t manage to fit it in where I mentioned it was the first time they said it, but at the same time didn’t make it this super huge deal. Of course they already know they love each other; they don’t need to be waxing poetic about it to make it clear, though. I’m pretty happy with what I managed instead!

There are so many standout lines in this one that i adore, but I think most of them come from the final part. I love a good ‘sleepy pillow talk in the morning after’ kind of vibe (in fact, I’ve been considering adding a part 2 to ‘the push' set the morning after) so it was lovely to get to include one here.

I’m very especially proud of the imagery right here: “Yangchen wakes up in shades, consciousness seeping into her bones with each exhale of breath. The pre-dawn light creeps through her window, casting the room in a soft, dreamlike haze.”

And again with this one: “He stretches, long and languid, yawning so widely that Yangchen can hear his jaw pop. His fingers tangle with those already on his cheek, bringing her hand to his mouth so he can begin to kiss his way up her arm, tracing the pattern of her tattoos.” (non-lip kisses my ABSOLUTE BELOVED).

“Rather than fall further into her trap, Kavik shuts her up by tackling her into the bed, making her shriek with laughter when his hands dig into her sides to tickle her mercilessly.” <- I really loved how I portrayed Yangchen in this whole part. She deserves to just let loose and be silly!!!!

“Avatar Yangchen belongs to the world before anything else. Yangchen will always be the Avatar; even in death her spirit will remain to continue the cycle. She holds the world’s biggest blessing and its heaviest burden. It will always have a claim over her.

But right here, her world is just this: the blue of Kavik’s eyes, the safety of his arms, and the love that she can feel pouring out of his very being.”

^ Made myself almost cry with the duality of it all. He’s literally her safe space. I’m never gonna feel normal about them.

This ended up getting… so long lol. If you stayed til the end, thank you very much! I hope you enjoyed getting some insight into my writing thoughts and parts I enjoyed about creating my fics! And again, thank you so much for the ask!!!

[cardentist]

apparently there's discourse (not in the bad way, just the discussion way) surrounding lich and trans headcanons because of how he talks about michaela in the books

so here's my opinion as a trans person (other trans people are allowed to have different opinions but this one is mine):

I believe that mothy himself is well meaning about his trans and gay representation, but is unfamiliar with what We'd consider problematic. I'm not familiar enough with either mothy or the general culture of japan to say if this is the result of mothy himself being out of touch, or japanese queer culture just being different from the US's. but either way this is my read on the situation.

and so I engage with evillious with that in mind. it's a series that means well but has problematic elements. and that doesn't have to be a Bad thing, it's just something that needs some awareness while taking it in.

so when mothy writes lich openly acknowledging and accepting that michaela is his sister but then Also has him refer to her with her dead name I don't see that as mothy intentionally portraying lich as transphobic or unaccepting of her. it is, after all, how mothy chose to reveal that she was a trans woman in the first place (introducing us to "lich's brother michael" and having it revealed that she was michaela all along, and having lich acknowledge her as his sister now).

and I think there are two ways to go about this with this understanding.

we could simply gloss over the issue, because at the end of the day we're not going to be able to sit mothy down and explain why it can be hurtful to trans people. we don't have that direct communication with him. and it's not being written with the intent of being read as malicious on lich's part, so it's simply easier to smooth it over.

Or we could translate mothy being well intentioned but misinformed onto lich as a character trait. this works best within the context of him having to learn what he's doing wrong and grow, but obviously it's up to personal interpretation.

as for trans headcanons, there's nothing wrong with that in the first place. trans people are misinformed sometimes, nobody comes out of the womb socially conscious and fully aware of modern sensibilities.

having lich realize that they aren't a man could be tied into lich gaining a better understanding of transness. having lich be transmasc already and just not knowing any better because He doesn't mind these things and hasn't stopped to think that other people may feel differently. having lich be whatever flavor of trans you want in whatever way you want just because it's fun and you'd like to. it's all fine and doesn't hurt anybody

I would Also like to point out that levia has been making fun of behemo for wearing dresses and make up since she was introduced as a character, and people tend not to call her transphobic or highlight this as transphobia.

yes, there is more ambiguity in behemo's case as mothy has never stated outright what behemo's identity is, but calling someone you interpret as a man disgusting or weird for wearing dresses Is Transphobia (and was specifically highlighted As transphobia/bigotry that behemo has faced during barisol's child) regardless of what that person's gender actually is.

I personally like levia a lot, just like I like lich and behemo and michaela, and Personally I think they're all trans Because I like them. and I'm not saying that we should Start defining levia's character by this trait.

but I Am saying that it's an obvious double standard to hold lich as a character accountable while Not doing the same for levia when arguably levia is intentionally written as being harmful while lich isn't.

anyways, I think it's funny if levia realizes he's a trans man that still likes to wear dresses and make up, and I think lich is seth's boyfriend and banica's girlfriend and eater's -̴̱͔̫̭̎̆͆-̴̠͚͘͜-̶̺̰̙̦͗-̸̡̻̽̅-̴̢̹̰̠͐͑̃̈̑friend, and equally trans no matter what

(also potential lich and carlos dynamic intrigues me but I think it's much funnier if they aren't dating each other. banica's husband and banica's girlfriend silently and awkwardly eating brunch together because they figure they're supposed to hang out but between the two of them there isn't one drop of social intelligence)

(they do this every day, it never gets any better)

[sarkyfancypants]

Analysing Bob Velseb

Or my version of him at least given that there is barely any actual lore about him and any existing lore is ambiguously scattered and left up for interpretation.

This is by all means not intended to be entirely connected to the canon and it is all done for fun and I am open to discussing things as well.

I just can't decide what direction to go with my version of him. I am divided with the concept of whether evil is born or made. Starting with his upbringing, do I make him wicked from the start? Maybe he comes from a regular family of cattle owners. Let's say they weren't necessarily abusive, but we're strict, old-school conservative parents. Bob was maybe raised with a certain amount of stress, trauma, or frustration any child would experience in such a rough environment.

Father was a butcher and maybe tried to teach Bob, who was weirdly fascinated by the process. He was probably pushed to sacrifice his first animal at a young age which must have left a shocking imprint in his mind and from there developed a morbid interest in the business so in the future he chose to follow his old man's steps.

Bob grew up learning the nitty-gritty of butchering, unbothered by the gruesome process from the slaughter to handling the carcasses all the way to the kitchen. He became a connoisseur of everything about meat and developed a passion for cooking as a result.

Now from these doodles by Pelo (they may be done as a joke but I'm taking them with me, don't @ me) I like to think Bob does have at least some sympathy for the animals he has to sacrifice, understanding that it is something that has to be done in order to get the meat.

Maybe Bob's grown so desensitized to the slaughter process he doesn't feel too upset when he has to do it, while at the same time, he would still feel a twinge of remorse if he were to accidentally run over a dog. That's life after all. Up to this point, it's all ordinary. A regular dude with a regular job. Likes animals while at the same time having a job that requires killing certain animals for consumption.

Now let's take a look at his home. Some details here give me ideas.

The guy has a taxidermied deer head, either a trophy from hunting or roadkill, who knows. There are bones scattered around the floor (human or animal bones idk), and his furniture is covered with skin, human skin to be precise (a concept likely based on the criminal Ed Gein who later inspired horror movies like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre) which I assume was surely done later during life as a killer.

I am willing to give into the idea that he was drawn into things like death and collecting the remains of deceased animals in general. What if he collected bones, teeth, pelts, and taxidermied animals as the beginning of his slow descent into his dark hobbies? Started with animals, then slowly began to fantasize about doing the same to human remains.

Bob seems like a jolly, charming fellow during his days before joining the cult. Maybe he wasn't all that wicked for the most part and would get along with people in general. But at the same time, just to spice things up, if he were to be in an unpleasant situation, he drops the facade revealing a much more stern, hot-tempered, and likely cruel side. You know you really fucked up when you piss off the sweet guy.

Taking a quick look back to his past, imagine growing up in a strict environment inciting a deep desire for control in the young child. Given how Bob enjoys tormenting his victims by intimidating them with his ominous presence and sometimes unsettling meat facts, he shows that he likes to be in control of the situation, minimizing the people around him. The guy must have a high ego (seriously, he has several pictures of his face framed at home, come on).

The guy probably never married. Maybe had a few love interests, but was a little too uncomfortable about the idea of getting into a committed relationship. He's not used to intimacy nor affection as he probably didn't get much as a child.

Now where does the cannibalism come in? Iunno. Perhaps in his first time unaliving somebody he had to hide the evidence somehow. Had the twisted idea of turning the remains into hamburger meat and the rest kept as trophies. He liked it so much he got hooked up and couldn't stop.

Then let's say the Cult comes into the scene. People from cults are in appearance regular people, that is until you have a conversation with them as they begin pushing ideologies and throwing buzzwords to recruit people. Somebody might have seen Bob as a potential recruit and tried to befriend him when he was still a young impressionable man and began filling his head with strange ideas, praising him, and filling his ego until his mind was finally manipulated.

Joining the cult was probably the point of no return. Bob was doomed to never have a regular life ever again. His crimes only got worse and his mind was broken, especially if we consider the possibility of him being exposed to "Eyes" and having that immortality cult talisman put into his chest. He became nothing but a puppet for the cult.

IDK what else to add so yeah, so far this is the very rough idea.

[guppyscolita]

can u tell us more abt that chair tf piece u did a while back?? i remember u saying it was part of some project and ive been wondering what the context behind it mightve been

oh sure. I can talk a bit about the project and the piece just to recall, anon is talking about this piece:

"What is a chair? there was a human there I think, now there's just a piece of wooden furniture, beautiful, well, not really, just useful at least. do you want to become one?"

As I mentioned on the original post, "the chair" was a extract from a bigger project I was working on one subject for my career, a subject that actually proceeds my thesis project. Ideally, the piece belonged to a group of pieces that used transformations to talk about certain social situations that are specially reflected on my city/country. And the medium I was going to use was street art: Stickers, Stencils, paste-ups and posters specifically. "the chair" was supposed to be on sticker format, and it was supposed to be around the center of the city, where my college (art college) is Of course while being outside on the wild, people could see the sticker and think whatever they wanted about why a chair is wearing clothes. The idea is that there was a human there, before it turned into a chair. Now what people took out of that is what could make the piece interesting. My idea was letting it as ambiguous as it is. But the original context on the sticker is actually a reference to an art piece called "1 and 3 chairs" by Joseph kosuth. where there's a whole analyses about concept and form, it also is a conceptual piece, which by itself brings a lot of discussion about he forms of art and such.

On a similar tone, the piece also is inspired on "this is not a pipe" by René Magritte

again, as part of an analisys about what we see vs what it really is in art. Said references (to which I can technically say "the chair" is a parody off) are, most likely, something that just a small amount of people would get if they see the sticker on the wild. And It's why I like to let the meaning open and not try to pretend much of what the sticker is. So, Why Someone turned into a chair?...

-------------------------- As for the rest of the project, there was other 3 pieces that also went around the same idea of transformations. "the chair" was the one I found funnier and I think it really worked the way I wanted. Saddly, my city and overall country has gotten VERY dangerous atm, and specially when I was about to vandalize set my pieces on the street, the violence escalated so high that face-to-face classes where suspended. So I just couldn't really finish the project as I wanted But honestly, even if it's not for a subject, I do want to set at least the chair around my city, I think that would be fun.

[archivalofsins]

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE JAILBREAK MEGA MIX! While it's still the anniversary day! I was doing something for the rest of today but wanted to discuss my first run through the song.

You could say this was my dream come true since it was a Mikoto Muu mix for a small bit. The instrumental of MeMe overlapping with the beginning of Muu's final part. It was great.

I'm also lovingly dragging Star along for this ride.

Okay I was tired when I wrote this. So, I went back to edit it for clarity! This is hopefully the last edit I'll do on this.

To start off I believe the songs, their placements, and the way they overlap show the relationships or associations between the characters.

Let me explain.

First, we have Es the guard that we started with and technically our proxy within Milgram. Basically, Es is the one that connects us the audience to Milgram so of course they'd go first.

Next, we have Kotoko the one who's most firmly aligned with Es. Their mentalities have become a bit similar after trial one as well. Given some of Es' statements towards Futa in his voice drama. I hope he isn't also harsh on Mahiru.

However, this is where it gets tricky or fun depending on your view, I think it's fun.

Kotoko leads into Haruka. Someone who has said like Muu but for different reasons he doesn't think any of the prisoners are like him. This mix could be a subtle way to tell us who the prisoners are most like and impacted by. I believe Haruka comes after Kotoko because she is the one to leave the biggest impact on him but the prisoner, he's most like comes after him.

This is why bits of his song go into Mahiru's but the overlap between Harrow and Weakness is more subtle. No instrumental from Harrow or anything just Kotoko singing,

"I want to be drowning in the knowledge that I'm right." while Haruka is floating in that water.

However, this line could relate directly to one of Haruka's lines in Weakness,

"I cried, I screamed, I wanted to be a pitied and loved weakling. I was in denial; I was in denial I just had to make sure."

When this comes to representing the relationship between Haruka and Kotoko while they haven't had the best interactions and Haruka is downright afraid of her, they've started talking. Plus, upon realizing that Haruka was Innocent Kotoko began to treat him a bit more nicely.

21/12/15    (Kotoko’s Birthday)

Haruka: Ah…… H-happy birthday, Kotoko-san.

Kotoko: ……thanks. You’ve definitely changed a bit. Do you remember before? You could barely even talk to me.

Haruka: I-is that so? Now that you mention it, I, I maybe have got a bit better since then. ……m-maybe I’ve got more used to being around people. There’s other people here who are interested in me, and, um, in particular Mu-san pays a lot of notice to me…… I… I’m enjoying myself here……

Kotoko: ……hmm. It’s just a theory I have right now, but I get the feeling the outcome of Milgram’s judgements are having some influence on our mental state. Well, I only noticed because I happened to be last up though. Good for you, then. This must mean that you’re fine. ……I’ll accept those birthday wishes.

Muu and Haruka don't really discuss Kotoko's actions as bad or good. To be frank I don't really think Haruka discussed them at all. So, they're both neutral leaning towards positive with her. Taking that into consideration, him coming up after her makes sense.

However, since the line Kotoko sings before Haruka's song can be related to one of his own and was directly related to the visuals of his song we're in a fun but ambiguous situation. One where either Kotoko or Mahiru could be the prisoner most like Haruka. However, I still think in this case the prisoner most like him is Mahiru.

Because unlike with Harrow where only the line Kotoko sings overlaps. The instrumentals of Weakness and This is How to Be in Love With You merge near the end before Haruka finishes off his part singing,

"Even if I keep trying it, it's broken right away. The things that aren't here and unneeded things... Is it still living somewhere?"

(Lol, this isn't my point it's Stars she typed it up on my computer using this great thing called Parsec now for a word from our spons-dies. God wish I was paid for this I'm just excited. Okay take it away.)

This parallels well with, "I guess we can just say that this feeling is happiness/I can't stop feeling like there's something missing."

(And that was Star's point please applaud~ A little louder just kidding!)

I forgot to add my feelings on Mahiru and Haruka's overlap in my rush to get to Yuno. There are also very direct comparisons that can be made between the two through their voice dramas. They both underestimate and speak down about their own capabilities. However, when given the opportunity, being met with patience, or having a straightforward goal to work towards they're likely to better complete it.

Also, just as Mahiru judged Mikoto immediately after one encounter to be flippant and have cheater energy. Haruka pretty much judged Kotoko as scary off the bat and continued to avoid her until he'd become more comfortable through due to his verdict and other prisoners taking time to interact with him and pick up the ball whenever he dropped. For example, how Mikoto told Kotoko Es was calling for her but neither of them confronting or reprimanding Haruka for not being able to communicate that to her and basically ignoring the task Es gave him.

They also have both requested frivolous items for not only personal enjoyment but to better create the atmosphere they were seeking. Haruka the water floaty during the summer and Mahiru the futons for the sleep over.

Now we get to the overlap between This Is How To Be In Love With You and Umbilical. This one is fun in so many ways. First it highlights Yuno and Mahiru's give and take relationship within Milgram. Something touched on within Yuno's birthday conversation last year.

22/09/02 (Yuno’s Birthday)

Mahiru: ……no, I’m fine. As long as I don’t move too much I don’t even feel any pain. Sorry for making you worry.

Yuno: Oh, really? That’s good then. Mahiru-san, if there’s anything you want then just ask. It’s not like it’s a huge burden, I can just ask for it along with my own stuff.

Mahiru: Ok…… I’m fine for now. Sorry, for making you worry. Ah, Yuno-chan…… Today’s your birthday, right? Happy birthday.

Yuno: ………… Haha, thanks. Thank you, but y’know. Is it really ok for you to be saying that to me when you’re in that situation? ……you really aren’t suited for Milgram, huh, Mahiru-san.

"Ring, ring I'm calling you in the middle of the night."

This line overlapping with Umbilical could could reference Mahiru relying/calling on Yuno to get her things within Milgram now that her privileges have been restricted. It can also allude to what some including myself have speculated Yuno was doing on the staircase making a phone call.

Now here's the kicker the thing that makes the line up appear to be intentionally alluding to which prisoners are most like the other is because Yuno comes directly before Kazui. The person she admits to being the most like.

There isn't much overlap between their songs since Yuno's song drops directly before his starts with the lines,

"I messed up, I found out." being repeated over and over.

A line that directly ties into Halfs line of,

"Where did I go wrong, probably from the beginning."

In the song proper it would parallel the line "If continuing to hide is called unhappiness, not even one word will get to you." pretty well to. However, when it comes to following up this line the first works better.

Shidou's song unsurprisingly has no overlap but is after Kazui's. Him and Kazui have been working closely together since Kotoko's attacks in order to take care of and protect injured prisoners. Plus, he's admitted that Kazui is the prisoner he gets along with the best during the first trial.

Q.18 Who do you get along with best out of the other prisoners?

Shidou: Mukuhara-san, I think. We’re the two old men here, and are often in the smoking area together.

On top of that Yuno has spent the most of her time hanging out with Mahiru or Kazui. So, it makes sense relationship wise for them to be where they are in the Jailbreak lineup.

Now here's where things get exciting. A lot of people would rightfully ask well Muu and Haruka are closest, they spend the most time together, why aren't they closer in the line up.

Let's get into the final four and most interesting choices of the Jailbreak line up and talk about what the Milgram staff decided to name this mega mix.

Futa's part in the mix starts off hard. Right after Shidou's we go into what I like to call the guilty mash up. Since all three of these guilty Prisoners had their songs overlap in row and honestly it sounds great.

First though, there is room to say that Futa is being compared to Shidou. Meaning the one most like him in Milgram which he incorrectly claimed was Kotoko before is more than likely Shidou. This makes sense given how he came in concerned about the well-being of those younger than him and Shidou's stance with kids. It really wouldn't be surprising to me if their mentalities were similar.

They also both failed to take proper care of people younger than them before. Something we only get a glimpse into during Shidou's trial two song.

Star again; another similarity between Shidou and Fuuta is that they're both fairly cynical in terms of worldview! From Mr Ethics is a delusion to "The world is full of shitty people isn’t is natural to look down on them all?" and "In the modern era, whatever I do is useless anyway I’m just going along with the flow." There's also the fact that the transition line between Throw Down and Bring it on is literally just "Throw down", which could allude to fighting.

(Gunsli: i.e throwing down a colloquialism in English for starting or being involved in a fight. In the same vein that Bring it on is a colloquialism in English usually taunting someone into a conflict. The equivalent of a bunch of middle schoolers yelling fight, fight, oooo what are you gonna do about it. Back to Star.)

/o/ Jumping on the throw down as a colloquialism real quick to bring up the other interpretation of it. That being throwing your weight on the side of an argument/conflict you believe in. This can refer to your ethicality/morals but it can also refer to monetary/societal value [something you can argue is touched upon by Shidou covering Delusion Tax + the quote "No life is worth the same as another's(??)"].

(Okay back to me I suppose.)

The only difference between Futa and Shidou is Amane and Es don't hate Futa. Es says it's important to not go easy even on friends and Amane keeps checking in on Futa. In fact, recently in the collaboration art you can see them all sitting together. Shidou standing behind and Futa to the side and behind Amane. Amane is pretty much right between the two of them but is noticeably closer to Futa.

Plus, despite the fact that Futa has been shown close to Kazui a lot recently he's the further from him than Shidou is.

 "I don’t dislike anyone particularly. However, I think Amane rather dislikes me. Such a shame."

Even though Futa is far more abrasive than Shidou his curt nature is generally well received by those younger than him but looked down upon by those older. This is because to some people younger than him his behavior can feel like he's meeting them at their level while not being condescending, sometimes even appearing to be stupider than they are. Something that kids tend to generally like.

We see this part of Futa's nature during his second interrogation where he attempts to relate to Es. Outside of that Futa blatantly states friends to him are,

Q.01    What do friends mean to you?

Futa: People who get excited about the same things as you.

Meaning he's probably more likely to search for common ground with someone to better relate to them. This is something that Amane has seemed to be receptive to, considering the overlap between their songs. Outside of that it just makes sense she'd be receptive to someone that takes her statements seriously and she can have a back and forth with. Even though she's a child, that sort of engagement is still necessary and refreshing even more so considering the sort of child Amane is.

So, let's talk about that overlap. Their songs don't just overlap but the videos do as well. This also happens with Es and Kotoko, Mahiru and Yuno, and Amane and Mikoto (oh trust me we'll get to that). All these pairings are the ones that have become the closest to each other over Milgram.

Kotoko not only directly aligns themselves with Es but works for them as per the terms of the deal she presented to Es last trial.

Yuno and Mahiru talk and hangout rather often to the point that Yuno has offered to get Mahiru stuff when she orders her stuff. Also speculated but not confirmed that she may have ordered Mahiru the wheelchair.

Amane and Futa. Amane has continued to encourage Futa since they received their verdicts and despite him receiving medical attention as well has not threatened him.

Amane and Mikoto. They don't talk on a frequent basis but when they do they usually talk for a good while. Mikoto is chatty and Amane is willing to listen to him talk in depth about his experiences and even take notes. So, also no surprise there.

Back to Futa and Amane the line that overlaps between their songs is,

"It's going great, we're gonna punish you until you cry. If you get off now, you're a traitor. Now let's be reasonable!"

Now let's be reasonable continues to repeat. The line even skips three times before being repeated another three before Amane begins to sing.

These lines from Bring It On tie in well to Amane's starting line of,

"I can actually think of it as a good thing, see isn't it great?"/ "It's going great-"

"This happy pinky promise hurts to break."/ "We're gonna punish you until you cry. If you get off now, you're a traitor."

"Even I can say "I'm sorry". Even I have hope. I swear! I'm going to be a good girl now! That's it!" /"Now let's be reasonable."

Amane and Futa's mindsets align well with each other the MEGA MIX highlights this by putting their songs so close to each other. Musically having their mindsets collide. Through this it pulls to the forefront how "Bring It On" is all about punishing someone to the point of getting an apology and "Magic" is about apologizing for one's mistakes and promising to do better seemingly repeatedly.

The repetition of, "Now, let's be reasonable." between the songs highlighting how neither Amane or Futa think these things in and of themselves are unreasonable responses or requests to a perceived wrong. Their possible shared belief that all punishment should end at the point where the offender apologizes and going beyond that is a bit much.

Even if the punishment used to elicit the apology was disproportionate in comparison to the offense. Putting them side by side within the mega mix was a good way of highlighting this aspect of not only their songs but characters. Yet it doesn't stop there!

When it comes to Amane there's another interesting point. In this case I'm referring to how one of the televisions the prisoners' songs are displayed on within the Jailbreak Mega Mix is more than likely the same model we see her watching at the end of Magic. A CRT. Now it is very much possible all the televisions displayed in this video are different versions of the CRT but the exact make and model name is something neither Star nor I know.

The one in the middle is more than likely the one Amane is watching at the end of Magic. Despite neither of us knowing the specific model names. Star believes the one in the middle is the oldest television, the one to the right the second oldest, and the one on the left would be the most recent one relative to the ones there of course.

It's time for Amane and Mikoto! The overlap between their songs and visuals, just like Futa is strong. You can hear Amane singing lightly in the background as the instrumental of MeMe begins. Imagery from her mv overlapping with Mikoto's silhouette from the prison line up and being put over imagery from his own mv. Basically, distorting the two together.

The line overlapping here,

"But it's not scary at all, because it's love! I can really think it's great. See, isn't it a great thing?"

This ties directly into Mikoto's first line which I've discussed to death in other posts, "If I could laugh, if I could go back, I'd play dead even though I'm alive right? If I could end, if I could stop how long would this dream go on?" Amane's lead in line serves to highlight the placating mindset Mikoto has throughout MeMe.

Highlighting the undertone of the beginning lyrics and how Mikoto and Amane convinced themselves that their circumstances were fine even though on some level they knew they weren't. They just kept going forward with the belief that it was, and it would have the desired result.

Something that's really funny when one considers the imagery from Magic that overlaps between Bring It On and MeMe. During Bring It On it's Amane taking the stage but when we get to MeMe the imagery that overlaps between their songs is Amane thinking she has the right answer but being told she's wrong and the cat being injured. Something that can be considered a deliberate choice since while one of those scene is before the other the second scene doesn't happen directly after the the first in Magic proper.

In fact Amane being told her answers are wrong happens a good bit before the cat is injured. That scene ends at 1:16 of and the cat injury happens at 1:36 but now they've been spliced together for this overlap. Ignoring every other line that happens between those points. It's a good way to visually drive home that belief is wrong and it's in fact to no one's surprise not a great thing.

If Amane's song is about the hope of becoming that better version of yourself, Mikoto's is very much about the disillusionment of that concept. Facing the realization that no matter how much a person may try to be better there will still be people in their life who treat them like trash over and over. That sometimes the best or even the most self-preserving response is to grin and bear it along with the animosity one can hold towards themselves because they behave in that way.

Sadly, sometimes the key to surviving is putting up with people who don't give a shit about you, your feelings, or the effort you put into something and doing your best to not take that personally. I can't stop imagining Futa seeing this overlap between their songs and being like, "What the fuck; you two live like this?! It explains...more than it should..."

This overlap between Amane and Mikoto also serves to nicely point to what was one of the more jarring mvs and go see it's not scary all while putting cartoon animals over the actual footage. Something, I feel can come off as super sweet like Amane's seeing the initial response to Mikoto and going,

"Okay, this looks bad but look there's a cartoon cat now" while subtly whispering "It's not bad. Stop saying it's bad. It isn't it's love. It's not bad at all." In what can only be considered a blatant attempt at brainwashing the audience, and I appreciate that. We take our wins where we can find them Amane's right. MeMe wasn't that bad.

Amane's in Double sock puppets on her hands distracting people from Mikoto committing more in-depth murders like,

"The Dog was hurt by Mr. Porcupine's quills but Mr.Porcupine never noticed the dogs pain. Each day Mr.Dog would go into work and Mr.Porcupine would jab in another quill at first it seemed like a small error an accident. Yet, as it kept happening Mr.Dog eventually couldn't take anymore." Then the dog sock puppet suddenly has a bat and she recreates the murders in sockpuppet form.

After watching it Es is just like, "I'm so sorry Mr.Dog you've been through so much."

"Huh, oh...yeah? I have- thank you... I accept your apology, Es." Mr.Dog what the fuck is this kid seeing in these videos is he okay?! Is this a nickname for me now; what, why? Is he being genuine?!

Now Mikoto and Muu. The line that leads into Muu's part is,

"I won't forgive you if this is happening even though I'm right."

And oh boy do I have a lot to say about this one! Even though it doesn't overlap with her song MeMe's instrumental does particularly the drums. But let's talk about this line overlap and how it relates to Mikoto and Muu's relationship through the course of Milgram.

In my opinion I don't believe there's a lyric within After Pain that could directly tie into the line that leads into this part. The only line that comes close to tying in with it is,

"Why won't you stop hurting me?"

This line gives the same feeling of a lack of control over the situation along with mild animosity towards the fact that they are as Star would say being put through the trials.

It serves to highlight Mikoto and Muu's similar mindsets when it comes to facing punishment for their actions whether they remember them or not. That mindset being actually fuck you I was right and if you're smart you'll see that. If not I'm definitely not going to forgive you for putting me through all this even though I was right to do what I did. Basically, if you don't forgive me, you're the one that's wrong.

They both heavily focus on their crimes being a result of self-defense all be it in different ways given Mikoto's circumstances. Plus, after receiving her very small Innocent verdict Muu immediately pivoted into a, it's not my fault of course anyone could see that, mentality which was hardly out of nowhere. I doubt this is saying that Mu is the most like Mikoto given the Amane thing, but it is highlighting how their relationship has changed and how they may find their similarities and each other's abilities useful to the other.

He has basically become Muu and Haruka's chaperone. Which honestly good choice picking the one guy outside of Kazui who proved capable of fending Kotoko off on his own and wants to beat her at her own game. It's mighty convenient that those two are suddenly getting really close to Mikoto as soon as your Innocent status is up for debate again and may be in jeopardy. Maybe Muu is trying to as she put it in second written interrogation "chose better friends".

That's what brings us back to the name of the Mega Mix Jailbreak. It seems everyone in Milgram may not just be building relationships by gravitating towards people they just so happen to like or to just survive within the facility. They may be building useful relationships that they think would be useful if the possibility case of a Jailbreak presents itself.

This is why Yuno calls Kotoko's behavior stupid. Aligning yourself with someone whose opinion of you can change on a dime instead of people stuck in the same objectively messed up and weird situation as her... So, openly only serves to limit who is willing to help her later if her plan to work with Es backfires.

The three guilty prisoners whose songs overlap heavily should be concerning to some. Since two of them are the strongest willed people in Milgram who have voiced if Milgram won't agree with them, they will just rebel because they have done it before. So, honestly, what's a second time to them.

Not even going into Amane very actively attempting to indoctrinate Futa and clearly playing favorites with that goal in mind. It's not even just them that are possibly trying to or mulling over the idea of escaping. The only prisoners happy with Milgram as it is now are Haruka who is guilty now, Muu who is Guilty now, and Kotoko who honestly it would be so fucking funny if she got voted Innocent again like at this point we'd be dropping the ball for shits and giggles.

In fact prisoners so far this trial have,

Voice dissatisfaction at Es aligning themselves with Kotoko. (Yuno during her voice drama.)

Compared their circumstances to Es and highlighted there is truly little difference between them but their titles and Es is just as stuck here as they are. (Futa and Shidou in their voice dramas.)

Annoyance at continuing to be stuck there and how the appeal of the place for them has worn thin. (Yuno in the same voice drama.)

Outside of Haruka, Muu, and Kotoko no one else stuck within the facility is happy regardless of if they were voted Innocent or Guilty. All that to say the Jailbreak Mega Mix sure is interesting!

I hope they revolt~

[trampledore]

Rhaenys' decision to join Rhaenyra's side was arguably the most logical choice and in line with her character/motivations

I'll be partly referring to a recent post by @squgs HOTD and Ambiguity. They discuss a really interesting point and I didn't want to hijack their post by addressing a minor detail that they used as an example. But it also wouldn't leave me alone, since it's been bothering me for a while how a lot of people seem to interpret Rhaenys' motivations and actions in episode 10 (and 9). Apparently, House Velaryon backing Rhaenyra seems confusing to some (which I agree it might). Obviously everyone can have their own opinions and interpretations of the characters, but I am passionate about mine and need to make my case somewhere where I don't offend anyone accidentally. So I'll just write down my thoughts here. (This is just me ranting for fun, don't take it too srsly pls)

I agree that the Velaryons taking Rhaenyra's side instead of remaining neutral doesn't seem to make a lot of sense if you look at what happened in the show and their conviction that Rhaenyra is responsible for Laenor's death. BUT, I've wasted a lot of time thinking about it, and I do think joining Team Black was their best shot.

I do believe that her wish to see a Queen on the Iron Throne and protecting her grandchildren are her main reasons for joining Rhaenyra.

Moreover, I think that she believes that an alliance with Rhaenyra ensures she keeps what she has and furthers the goals of House Velaryon as well as her own (more than, say, joining Team Green would)

Firstly, I'd like to address why I would rule out Alicent's offer in episode 9. It seems like a good way to go if Rhaenys wants Baela to inherit Driftmark, IF Rhaenys believes that Alicent is to be trusted and actually has the power to back it up. If she thinks that Rhaenyra has the better chance of coming out on top in the end, then she would only make herself a traitor by agreeing to this deal. Then there is also the fact that she would turn directly against her remaining family members. Corlys made his wishes clear before he left, naming Lucerys heir and by that putting them indirectly on Rhaenyra's side - there was no way to be sure at the time that he would actually die, or, if he survived, go along with this deal between Rhaenys and Alicent; Baela expressed her loyalty for Rhaenyra too (in the deleted scene, and probably made her standpoint clear before at some point) and might not even agree to go along with it. So putting all her eggs into Alicent's basket might not work out in Rhaenys' favour, and even tho it might prolong the negotiations for peace between the factions, it would definitely not hold back Daemon and Rhaenyra indefinitely imo. They have enough dragons to risk it even without Meleys and the Velaryon fleet. They are completely convinced that Rhaenyra is the rightful claimant to the throne after all. They won't just give up and resign themselves to the situation. In any case, with or without an escalation, Driftmark is closest to Dragonstone and I don't see them forgiving Rhaenys for siding with Alicent. They would fly over there and take that inheritance away from Baela in a heartbeat and just install someone else on the Driftwood throne. I don't see the Greens being able to stop that from happening, and Rhaenys probably knows that. Apart from the possibility of Rhaenys getting the heir for Driftmark that she wants, I see no gain in joining Team Green, especially since the Velaryons clearly consider them traitors; view Aegon's coronation as usurping the throne and have to assume that Team Green would actively try to kill Rhaenyra's sons.

Secondly, I also believe that Rhaenys' main motivation is to keep her family safe and ensure her house's survival. I am convinced that she cares about the boys, not only Baela and Rhaena. We didn't get any real scenes with them, but what I saw in the background in episode 7 is enough for me to believe that she at the very least doesn't want them to get hurt. They are also members of House Velaryon as far as most of Westeros (including Coryls) is concerned and additionally, they are betrothed to Baela and Rhaena. By making sure that they survive to take over the Iron Throne and the Driftwood throne, she is ensuring her granddaughters' futures (futures that they also both seem to want). She may not have the same ambitions as Corlys, but she probably also wouldn't pass up that opportunity. So: even if she didn't care about the boys, it is in her interest that they survive. Joining Rhaenyra is the way to protect them.

That also brings me to the question, why she didn't fight for her own claim, but then decided to fight for Rhaenyra's, even though she couldn't really stand her at this point in time. Simply put, her chances back in the day were much worse than Rhaenyra's. At the time of the Great Council (and Jaehearys' death) she only had one dragon and very few supporters. Rhaenyra has a whole bunch of dragons, more support, the lords actually swore fealty to her at one point and she was appointed by the previous king, which means more loyal lords might stand with her even if they had preferred a male heir otherwise. Rhaenyra has a claim that can be backed up with a lot of arguments and force, while Rhaenys was a woman AND rejected by Jaehaerys. Of course she could have tried to fight for the throne anyway, but that would have been so much more risky and probably doomed to fail, especially with no other members of House Targaryen backing her up. She would have risked the lives of her family and herself to take a throne that she might not be able to hold in the end anyway (Daemon and all the lords who voted against her would have had something to say about that even if Viserys himself didn't care that much). So, arguably, Rhaenyra has a better chance of success (at least that's how I see the situation) and I am convinced that Rhaenys wants some form of justice for the slight against her. She might see Rhaenyra as a way to change "the order of things" after all.

And finally, while Rhaenys obviously doesn't trust Rhaenyra and Daemon, she also has no more reason to trust Alicent and Aegon. In her eyes war seems to be an inevitability, but while Aegon hasn't exactly shown a lot of virtues so far, Rhaenyra seems to prove herself reasonably capable at the moment. So why not back the arguably better ruler for the kingdom? I do think that it also would have made sense for the Velaryons to simply remain neutral and wait out the war, but her deciding the way she did also isn't unreasonable. Especially when the support of House Velaryon might just cause the scales to tip in Rhaenyra's favour (which would be way more in their interest than the Greens winning). Not to forget: Corlys actually swore obeisance to Rhaenyra, so accepting her as Queen would actually be the honourable thing to do.

And then there is the fact that she seemingly is now tired of standing at the side lines, unable to do anything. She clearly wants to take action and have more influence on what is happening around her. So taking a side and becoming an active part in the war might be her way to do it. Whether it's smart in the long run is another question entirely.

My point is that her reasons for wanting to join Team Black do actually make a lot of sense even if one might think that her disagreements with Rhaenyra and Daemon are too great. If House Velaryon stayed out of the war, they would risk their grandchildren's deaths that might have been prevented if only they had helped when they could. All five of them are closely connected to Rhaenyra and Daemon and have no intention of just leaving; if they remained on Dragonstone and then died, House Velaryon would have no future. From Corlys' and Rhaenys' perspectives, there is probably nothing worse than that, even if for different reasons. Staying neutral for no other reason than a (completely justified) grudge, could possibly cost them more than joining the war would.

[ghosttownwherenoonegoes]

something won't leave me alone for days now and i need to ask, i hope i'm npt bothering 🙈🙈🙈🙈 i saw the discussion abt eddie being kinder to the cheerleaders than the girl he startled (over on @munson-maidens blog but you rebloged it too) and keep wondering. i think he was really kinder to the cheers than the other girl cause he found the cheers pretty but he wasn't mean or rude to the other girl? like yeah he was kinder to the cheers but he wasn't unkind to the other girl he was still a gentleman like munson-maiden says with not getting to close and hands behind his back and smiling and he def would've let her pass too and he didn't jump at her cause he found her unattractive but cause she was there and he wasn't unkind or a prick to her. i just see two sides with the eddie is only nice to pretty cheers and that makes him a prick stance or people who say he wasn't nicer to the cheerleaders. but can he be a bit nicer to girls he finds pretty and still be a true gentlemen? he wouldn't treat anyone with less kindness cause of their looks so, honest: would it make him a prick if it is like i said that he was nicer to the cheers cause he found them prettier?

Hey anon!

You’re never a bother! I’m happy to hear from you and I adore answering asks (though I haven’t done so for a while and I need to be better about my time management so I don’t keep people waiting for too long💀).

I actually reached out to @munsons-maiden about this because she hadn’t said anything about this overall topic which I didn’t agree with (I have yet to disagree with Kiki on anything Eddie Munson related, she GETS him so well it hurts🤧🤧🤧), and I thought she could sum all of this up better than I can!

So here’s what Kiki said:

There are two types of men: those who respect women, ALL women regardless of their appearance, and those who don't respect women (the latter treats pretty women kinder but that's never genuine, that's because they want something from them and they'll stop being kind if they got or don't get what they want).

The question isn't whether he's especially kind to girls he finds pretty, but whether he'd treat any girl he doesn't deem pretty with LESS kindness, and the answer is no he wouldn't, because he genuinely respects women. Imagine the girls would have been "not pretty", and imagine him just not letting them pass. Feels so much ooc that I can't even imagine it. He would have let any girl pass, the fact that it were cheerleaders just shows that he's a gentleman to women even if they're rude to HIM. He wouldn't have jump-scared the cheerleaders because he thinks Chrissy (and by extension all cheerleaders, because pretty and popular) were mean and scary, but that doesn't have anything to do with being a gentleman or not. The jump-scaring itself isn't unkind or rude or pokes fun of that girl's appearance, if anything, Eddie is endorsing the freak label and playing himself a fool.

Plus, he treats Robin gentlemanly despite Robin not being the classical cheerleader beauty type as well, and his "Chrissy, this is for you" line was, according to Joe himself, not meant in a romantic way despite his crush, but to avenge her as a person. No man who lacks genuine respect for women would do that because Chrissy is dead, and he doesn't gain anything by dedicating the song to her.

In the end, everything can be interpreted ambiguously, and people tend to see what they want to see. How a scene is intended to be interpreted is determined by the rest of what we know about a character and the situation, and we get to know Eddie well enough to exclude the option that he's not a genuine gentleman.

I was very kindly given permission to copy and paste this into this answer, and I hope it gives you more food for thought!💖

[alovelyburn]

This became ranting halfway through so feel free to delete/ignore.

Related to recent discussion but not necessarily confined to Berserk. Lately I've just disliked calling antagonists or characters I write 'evil' at all. I tried introducing a new OC of mine to an acquaintance once and their immediate question was 'are they good or evil'?

What does it matter! Are you banned from liking them if they're evil? What if their morality and actions are too complex to sum up in a good-or-evil dichotomy? What if they begin as a hero and undergo a corruption arc? What if they begin as a villain and undergo an atonement arc? What if I just made them for a cutesy slice-of-life comic where the stakes are so low there don't need to be heroes and villains? What if they're super ambiguous and there are no right answers about their morality? And again, even if they were evil, does that somehow prevent you from liking them?

I just feel like labelling my characters as 'evil' makes them more boring, or misleads certain audiences into thinking the story will go a certain direction when it won't. I like putting my villains through redemption arcs and my heroes through corruption arcs. Not to mention how... I am a weird writer who has to understand my villain and what they desire and why they do what they do completely before I can make them do anything. I can't just have them kicking puppies for funsies, that just causes my brain to stutter to a halt and go 'but... what's the point of this????? to what end???'

I dunno. Maybe I'm too idealistic?

But overall I just. Find evil-for-the-sake-of-evil villains so unbelievably boring. They feel more plot device than character, and the longer they spend on-screen, the more I start to get bored by them. They can catalyze fun situations but they just... don't feel interesting. Griffith, and other villains and ambiguous characters who fandom tends to flatten, is more fun and interesting as a deeply flawed person than as Secretly Satan Incarnate All Along.

So one of the conversations I used to get into a lot during my days with the DC Fandom was this idea of Evil Villains, right like... people complaining that all the villains these days have tragic pasts and aren't just evil for the sake of being evil anymore.

This is also a complaint a friend of mine had when Aizen's motivations came out in Bleach back in the day - she was disappointed that he wasn't just a power hungry bastard. And then Gin's motivations came out and she was even more unhappy about that.

And this is one of those things that I'm never going to understand, I think. In part just because I think in most cases, characters who can be easily labeled as "evil" are kind of, you know, boring just like you said. They're flat. This isn't definitely all the time absolutely true, but it is I think true as a general rule, at least to me. It's also not realistic. Even the most evil people in history weren't sitting around like, yes today I will grease and twist my mustache and go out there and be Evil.

Fiction being fiction sometimes you can sometimes get away with it, I think, but that's the other thing: IMO when you do have a character who can be described as evil by nature, just evil - a Joker, or a Darkseid, that kind of thing - their absolute pointless malevolence pops more when they are a rarity. If you consider every character being plotted somewhere on a hypothetical graph where their point is placed at the intersection of the reasonableness of their goal and the tactics they use to get those things done, I feel like very few characters should be like... at the all-for-nothing extremes right like, if you have a character that's at 0 on reasonableness and 100 on extremity of tactics you've created an Absolute Monster, which may or may not be what you're going for but something that extreme should really stand out in my personal opinion. It shouldn't be just like one heartless monster in a crowd of thousands, that makes them less memorable and honestly it makes the story less memorable because one absolute monster can be chilling but a crowd is so over the top as to be unbelievable.

All of which is a long long winded way of getting around to, yeah I agree with you. I don't really think it's too idealistic - I mean I think the same thing and I'm a cynical realist so. Rather, I think the tendency to imagine that people who do awful things do those things because it's just fun to cause pain or even "because they're evil" is a little reductive. Everyone has motivations - some are better than others, but everyone has them.

On the subject of whether a character being evil means you can't like them, though, I think to some people the answer to that is "Yes..." but the thing is, I'm not really sure if I believe them. Is that actually a thing? Because in my experience when I actually talked to them a lot of the time I ended up feeling like that's not true, they just frame "liking" the character differently because Morals.

It's like all the people who are like, "I don't understand how anyone could like Griffith, I mean sure maybe if you like him as an interesting character and a well-constructed villain but how do you LIKE HIM?" Because I'm not sure what they think Griffith fans actually mean when they say they like Griffith, but it's usually something like "what a well-constructed and fascinating character." Speaking for myself, anyway, I just don't feel obligated to put up "BUT ONLY AS A VILLAIN YOU GUYS" disclaimer up when I say it.

[anhed-nia]

BLOGTOBER 10/29/2022: THE SENTINEL (1977)

First of all, there should be some kind of law that says you can't have Burgess Meredith and William Hickey in the same movie. It could be for the same reason they're not allowed to sell eggnogg year round; it's just too much of something.

Now, with that out of the way: Michael Winner's THE SENTINEL is a pretty good movie full of pretty great people—even its cast of extras is surprisingly star-studded—but with a bummer finale that makes a lot of sense if you're aware of the filmmaker's reputation for being an asshole. Venerated horror scholar Robin Wood called the movie "the worst—most offensive and repressive—horror film of the 70s," which, if you're me, means you absolutely have to see it. Also if you're me, you might wonder what all the hyperbole is about until the very end.

Arriving in 1977 and clearly wishing to join the dwindling party started by ROSEMARY'S BABY, THE EXORCIST, and THE OMEN, THE SENTINEL concerns a young model who will suffer a bizarre punishment for wanting a little more independence. Allison (Cristina Raines) is leery of moving in with her morally ambiguous lawyer boyfriend Michael (Chris Sarandon), as she still feels icky about the recent, convenient death of Michael's wife. That's not the only thing bugging Allison, though; she was recently released from a mental institution, and is haunted by the ghost (figuratively and perhaps even literally) of her debaucherous father. She figures she just needs a little time and space in which to learn to stand on her own two feet again, and she finds the worst place to do it in a handsome Brooklyn brownstone populated by devilish oddballs (including Burgess Meredith, Sylvia Miles, John Carradine, and…there's just more familiar faces in this movie than I have the energy to name). When Allison realizes she's not going to get the peace of mind she hoped for, she complains to her broker (Ava Gardner), only to learn that she is supposedly alone in the building, and that her struggle with insanity may not be over. Either that, or she's being embroiled in a battle between good and evil that it will take a lot of convoluted investigation to sort out.

THE SENTINEL has a lot of moving parts; co-writer Jeffrey Konvitz adapted his own novel for the screen, and it's easy to imagine that this frenetic narrative may hold together better within the more generous bounds of a book. However, despite all the overly involved infernal intrigue, the film is pretty watchable just due to its collection of kooky performances and its amusingly sleazy set pieces. It's basically all fun and games up to the end, when Michael Winner makes a choice that is hard to sit with by casting real people with extreme disabilities and deformities as demons from hell.

This notorious Boschian finale is admittedly frightening and effective, but as soon as you realize that not much of what you see is a special effect, your experience changes. Personally, it takes me out of the movie, and sends me spiraling into the vortex of debating whether exploitative freak shows should be banned outright, or whether people with unusual or pathological appearances should be allowed to capitalize on their situation however they see fit. This is pretty far outside the realm of the campy romp I thought I was in for, and to call it "insensitive" feels like a comical understatement. I don't know what Michael Winner was thinking when he decided to do this, but for someone with his reputation for being cruel, intolerant, and abusive, hearing his perspective probably wouldn't be overly eye-opening.

What's the moral of the story of this movie? I'm not entirely sure, but it has certainly earned its place in horror history as an item that we probably won't stop talking about any time soon. It is definitely something to see, and fun while the fun lasts, but be prepared to do a lot of soul-searching after the credits roll.

PS Just to sort of counterbalance the effect of talking about this much-discussed movie, I want to point out a film starring people with unusual appearances that attempts to deliver a more positive, albeit even more challenging message: 2018's HAPPY FACE, in which an attractive teenage boy secretly infiltrates a support group for people with severe deformities, as a way of gaining a better understanding his mother, who has been disfigured by cancer. Because of its sincerity and realism, HAPPY FACE can be much harder to take than THE SENTINEL, but I dunno, maybe everyone should have to see it:

[mulderscully]

okay i know it's not precisely a parallel but sarah jane smith and diana fowley as mechanisms for tenrose and msr to address deeper issues in their relationship - rosexdoctor was my favorite ship growing up and i fell into msr later and now you've got me thinking!

don't ever insult the queen sarah jane smith like that ever again oh my god.... i get what you mean but that opening sentence felt like a slap (lighthearted btw, i'm joking)

i was more so thinking like. they both have a very ambiguous relationship overall. the discussions whether ten and rose were having sex during s2 vs. the "season of secret sex" in s7 for msr. i personally am against both these ideas bc i don't like things happening off screen (tho i am, as an adult, rethinking how i see s2 ten/rose now. like idk maybe they did at some point.) but those discussions happen bc they both have that obv romantic/sexual tension that makes us squint but they don’t make a definite shift to “THIS IS A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP” like let’s say, castle did? 

they're also two of my most affectionate ships. they're always hugging and holding hands even if their relationship isn't a strict "boyfriend/girlfriend, husband/wife" relationship etc.

they're both also just traveling around, investigating weird situations while being in love. either in a car or a tardis. they've got the open road, you know? and that's so much of what makes it fun. i love the idea of being on an adventure like that with your fav person.

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

S3 Wrapped! Transcript

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello. My name is Grey.

C: And my name is Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast, where I, someone who has seen this show several times…

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian. [laughs] For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 3, like, as a whole. Our thoughts and et cetera. And our- I don't know. What we think about season 4 before we go in.

C: Yep.

G: Yeah. I think it's pretty obvious from how we have taken in Season 3 what we think of it. But let's start first with what we liked about Season 3. So-

C: Oh.

G: It's sparse. [laughs]

C: There are more women, and they're very mean to them, but sometimes they're on screen and Sam and Dean aren't saying anything.

G: Yeah. I think for me, the highlight of the season really is Ruby. Like, she brought in a lot as a character, but also, she brought on for the show and for the brothers the, you know, concept of, “Can we trust a demon?” And, you know, like, future Supernatural, we just have a demon buddy. Like, we just have Crowley over there. He's just- he's just there.

C: Yeah.

G: How does Crowley die? Do you remember? Is it the beginning of Season 13?

C: He kills himself in, I think, 12.23, right before Cas dies-

G: Oh, before.

C: - and to defeat Lucifer in the Apocalypse World. Yeah.

G: Yeah. Oh, yeah! Because Rowena outlives him. [laughs]

C: Uh-huh.

G: A slay for us all.

C: Indeed. Oh, right. You really don't like Crowley. I forgot.

G: Yeah, I think you forgor [C laughs] I really like Crowley, but I really don't. Yeah. Like, in the future Supernatural, like, we have a witch friend, we have a demon friend. But here, early on, it's such a wild concept that like, "We have a demon friend!" Even though they don't do a lot a lot with it, it's still fun.

C: Yeah. Yeah. It's fun to see them have allies. I feel like Ruby and Bela are both like, morally-ambiguous women who they still turn to for help because of their expertise in certain matters, but still screw them over sometimes. And that's a fun character type. I enjoy it.

G: Yeah.

Since Season 3 is a lot shorter than, you know, other seasons, we've talked a little bit about how the shortness of the season is kind of a detriment to it. Like, especially with, you know, wrapping up Bela's storyline.

C: Yeah.

G: That was like, tough, because it was so short, and there was- they weren't given enough time to actually explore it. But did you think Season 3 like, told a full story?

C: I mean, that man did get ripped apart by hellhounds.

G: Yeah! You know, I was thinking about the other day, like after we did the recording for the episode, and I was like, “Wow, he really-” like, Lilith- it was an L in every way. [C laughs] In every single way.

C: Yeah.

G: Lilith found them. I don't know, Sam is all alone now. Dean is dead. Bobby didn't get any screen time.

C: [laughs] Yeah.

G: Like, everybody loses.

C: And Ruby is gone, who was like, their only ally who seemed to know shit about the Hell situation.

G: Yeah.

C: So yeah. I mean, I guess Lilith didn't kill Sam. That was the only victory of the season?

G: Wasn't able to.

C: Yeah. But also, I feel like Lilith was- I mean, okay. Lilith was not introduced that late, in that we hear about the rival factions of Hell in 3.04 “Sin City” via Casey. But I do feel like I wish we'd had more Lilith sprinkled throughout the season, because I feel like all that picks up way too fast starting with “Jus in Bello.”

G: Yeah, I don't actually remember much about the plot of Season 4, because I was paying attention to other things. [laughs] Like- I think Lilith does get much more exposition and screen time and etc. in Season 4-

C: Okay.

G: - so perhaps they were like, “Well, we don't have much time this season. Let's just do it in Season 4.” And they did, so it's fine.

-

G: How about Sam and Dean as characters? Like, what are our thoughts on their character arcs this season?

C: Hm. Well, okay, let's start with Sam. So, starting from AHBL Part 2, he's just the worst guy in the entire world, for no reason [G laughs], but he-

G: No, there is a reason! There is a reason.

C: Just that Jake killed him, so he's like, angy about it? Like, get over it.

G: No, like not specifically for the Jake thing, but like, overall for the entire season, he was like, kind of like annoyingly-

C: Yeah. He said it was because like, Dean's gonna be gone, so he has to be Dean now, and that means being an asshole.

G: "Strong." Yeah. I disagree. I disapprove. I mean-

C: Yeah. I guess Ruby also said that, though, and Ruby's never been wrong about anything, so maybe he is right? Who knows?

G: Yeah. [C laughs] I think the thing about Sam this season is he goes through this arc where he's really nice to people, and he wants to save everyone and be nice to everyone. And then, you know, around season 4, he is like, “I will bleed this nurse to death.” And then, after that, he comes back to being like, “Our purpose is to save people etc. first and foremost.” And like, we are in the middle of that arc, the second arc. We're in the middle of that one.

C: Right.

G: And it's interesting to see. Because his motivations, I don't think- I don't buy it that much, you know? Like it doesn't feel real enough. Like, do you think that's just a switch that people can flip? Like, "Now, I'm not gonna care about other people." You know. [laughs]

C: I mean, he's had little dialogues where he's like, “Yeah, I do feel like shit about all of this, but that's not a useful emotion, so I'm not going to think about it.” So like, I do think that people can be repressed enough to try to flip that switch.

G: Yeah, perhaps. I mean, what do you think about Sam’s arc right now?

C: I don't know. It's difficult to say given that he's not really the main character of any of these episodes.

G: Well, I think he's more main character this season than in season 2. Which is shocking because Season 2 was sold as a Sam season.

C: Supposed to be, yeah. Hm. Yeah, okay. So his- what? His main motivations are to try to save Dean, and like, being willing to do whatever it takes and etc., and becoming more like cold and calculating, or whatever. Which, sure. I guess that sort of happens. I don't know. He's a guy. He's there. He looks good.

G: Sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't. [C laughs] How about Dean's arc?

C: Uh, I think-

G: I mean, he was like, “I'm gonna die." I think he-

C: "And that's fine.” And then he goes, “Wait! I don't want to die.” That's his main arc.

G: He's like, "Anyway, yass." I've been seeing this a lot on like, social media-

C: Okay.

G: - and I think it's really interesting. Like, people who are like, “It's actually in bad faith to like, make a character suddenly want to live and then kill them anyway.” [laughs] Have you seen this?

C: Oh. Are people turning to Dean Winchester for depression rep?

G: [laughing] I don't know.

C: [laughing] 'Cause I don't know about that one, folks.

G: I don't think- I mean, I'm laughing, but like, I'm willing to hear it out. But also, I think sometimes a story needs to be tragic. That's just the situation.

C: Yeah.

G: I think- Well, he does come back to life, as we know.

C: Yeah. He's back. It's fine.

G: It's fine. But like, this is his turning point. This is when Dean turns from a guy who's kind of an asshole to like, a guy who, you know, we see to become Season 13 Dean. I feel like this is a massive, massive turning point. This is when everything goes to shit.

C: 'Cause of the 40 years in Hell, some of which he spent torturing people?

G: Yeah. Yeah.

C: Yeah, I guess that can do something to a guy.

G: Yeah, 40 years. Damn.

C: Damn.

G: Well. Tough luck. [both  laughing] Sorry, Dean.

C: Yeah. Sorry that the writers wanted- like, what? Higher pay or more breaks or something, and therefore you were supposed to be saved in Season 3, but then they had to push Sam’s demon blood arc to the next season, and then you had to go to Hell for 40 years. But have you considered that we got Cas out of it? So like, get over it, Dean?

G: We literally got Cas out of it.

C: I mean, like, yeah, like it does suck. But he's not a real guy, [laughing] so I just can't be bothered to care that much.

G: I mean, we have to inherently care because we are a [both] Supernatural podcast.

C: Yes. [laughs] Well, the thing is that Cas is a real guy, but Dean isn’t, so...

G: Interesting. I'm not gonna debate you on this [C laughs] because, surprise! They're both not real, but- good for him.

C: [feigning shock] What? What do you mean? [G laughs]

G: I think this is the portion where we start talking about Season 4.

C: Okay, yeah.

-

G: Man. I am genuinely- Like, this is where Supernatural starts to pick up for me. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but to me, Seasons 1 to 3 is like the prequel of the show, and I believe that less now, actually, because I've been through Seasons 1 to 3, and I actually quite enjoyed the ride, and it felt like, you know, a real story. But like, it's a prequel, dude. And like, now, we're really in it, baby.

C: Yes.

G: And I don't know. Not even just for the Cas situation, which obviously I'm very excited about. But like, Season 4 Sam and Dean is the beginning of the Sam and Dean that I know. Like, I know these guys, you know?

C: Yeah.

G: It's like their backstory's over. They’re established people now. Season 4 Dean and the fact that he went to Hell dictates how the rest of his characterization pans out. And for Sam, I think it's about to start. Like, what happens to him in Season 4 is what redirects his entire life into what it becomes. So shockingly, for me- maybe I'll change my mind when we actually do start to see Cas on screen. But like, for me, I find myself more excited for what will go down for Sam specifically. Oh my god! Can you believe it? [both laugh] I've become the Samfan of this show.

C: That's fun. I appreciate that. I mean, I do look forward to Sam's demon blood arc, especially because it involves Ruby.

G: But? Or-

C: I do feel like in like, Destiel fandom, Season 4 Sam is the only Sam that exists in their mind, and then he becomes nothing to them. So I feel like I know a lot about Season 4 Sam that I don't know about other seasons Sam. So I am excited to see all the clips I've seen in every AMV, but I'm also more excited about learning about even later seasons Sam, because I don't know him very well yet.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah. I just- I'm thinking a lot about how, for us, Season 4 is the start of Supernatural, and it's where all the angel storylines and all the like, free will shit comes in. Like, that was not what this show was. So for people who were watching from the beginning and then started seeing Season 4 when it was airing, it was probably like, “What the fuck is happening here?”

G: Yeah. That's true.

C: Like, this was their monster-hunting show. And now it's still their monster-hunting show, but it's also mostly about free will now. Which I don't think is a main theme of Supernatural Seasons 1-3 at all.

G: Interesting. I don't think it's a main theme either. There are portions of it in the show, like, you can feel that there's a vibe of it, but it's not the main theme.

Okay, this is an interesting question: What do you watch Supernatural for?

C: Cas.

G: For this podcast, number one? [both laugh] But like, for number 2, what's the reason? Like, what got you into Supernatural in the first place? What's the concept? Like, what's the thing?

C: I mean, just Cas.

G: It's literally just Cas?

C: I feel like I don't have a deeper reason. It's just Cas. He's like, a funky little guy. I like to see him. [laughs]

G: Yeah. For me, I think it also is Cas, but like, the reason why it has retained me for so long, it- I mean, it's obvious with the other media that I like, but like, it really is the whole free will situation. Like, being under control of other people and like, forces that you cannot control, blah blah blah. Like, that is a very compelling kind of story to tell for me. So like, in that manner, maybe that's why I think of Season 1-3 as the prequel of the show, because it doesn't have that essence of it yet.

C: Right.

G: That's interesting.

C: Yeah. I think I also watch Supernatural because it interests me social experiment-wise. Just the fact that it ran for 15 years, which is a lot longer than most shows. and you can see the way like, television standards and stuff shift throughout the seasons. And also the way they reacted to having a fanbase that they didn't want to have. So like, I guess I enjoy Supernatural's- or I hope to enjoy Supernatural's future meta stuff. But yeah, it's just Cas and the social experiment aspect. I feel like I don't actively engage in the themes as much as you do. [G laughs]

G: Okay. Let's do the spreadsheets.

C: Alright.

G: Take the stage.

-

C: Alright. So let's start with our misogyny, racism, and homophobia statistics. So, you know, this was a fun season for all of that. So we ended the season- We've got 16 episodes. We ended it with 19 total misogyny points, 12 total racism points, and 8 total homophobia points. Our most misogynistic episodes, with 3 points each, were “Sin City” and “Malleus Maleficarum,” which sounds right. I do remember those for misogyny. Our most racist episode was “Fresh Blood” because Gordon gets killed. And our 2 most homophobic episodes at 2 points each are “Bedtime Stories,” featuring our favorite, “Dude, could you get any more gay?” and “Ghostfacers,” which makes sense.

G: [laughing] "Ghostfacers" won isn't even because of the content of the episode. [both laughing] It was just because Dean was homophobic, right?

C: Yeah, though I think that the content of the episode probably was homophobic. But we thought it was too funny to give it points for that. [both laugh]

G: But damn, the- what's that? The "Bedtime Stories" really was something. [C laughs] "Dude, you're so gay. You've read books? You've watched movies? Damn. That's homosexual behavior.” [C laughing]

C: Exactly. “Real men forget the alphabet, and that's why I don't know what L-G-B-T are.” [both laugh]

And our worst episodes overall if we add up all the points are “Malleus Maleficarum,” which we gave 5 total points–3 misogyny, 1 racism, and 1 homophobia–and “Long Distance Call,” which got 2 misogyny, 2 racism and one homophobia. 

Now, if we break this down on a writer standpoint- So, there are 5 writers who wrote more than one episode this season. Our most prolific writer is Sera Gamble, at 5 whole episodes.

G: Oh my god, I thought it was gonna be Jeremy Carver. He's the next, right?

C: He had 4. But yeah, Sera Gamble wrote a lot of this season. On average, she had 1.4 misogyny points, 0.8 racisms, and 0 homophobias. Thanks, Sera Gamble, for one thing.

Yeah. Next most prolific, Jeremy Carver, who gave us 1 point- Oh, who gave us 4 episodes, an average of 1.25 misogynies, half a racism, and three-fourths of a homophobia. Next we have-

G: [laughs] Love this ingredients list. [both laugh]

C: Yes. We have Ben Edlund, who wrote 3 episodes, and an average of one misogyny, two-thirds racism and one homophobia. And then we've got Eric Kripke, who wrote 2 episodes. He got 1.5 misogynies, the most misogynies on average of any writer. One racism per episode, which is also the most racisms out of any writer on average, and 0 homophobias. And finally, we have Cathryn Humphris, who wrote 2 episodes as well. Average of one misogyny, half a racism, and one homophobia, which is the highest homophobias of any writer [G laughing] except on the same level as Ben Edlund, who also had an average of one homophobia per episode. And if we add up everything, our worst writer is Ben Edlund, who had 2⅔ sins per episode. Thank you, Ben Edlund.

G: Bedlund! Damn.

C: Ugh. Every time I see him winning the Supernatural writer polls, I get so upset. [laughs] Anyway-

G: Because he's everyone's fave! Everyone likes him!

C: He is everyone's fave. Maybe he'll get better in the future. Does he?

G: Well, I mean, 'cause, you know. [laughs] Some episodes, you need homophobia to cope. [both laughing] You need homophobia to make it better, I think is the opinion of these writers. Some people need misogyny to cope.

C: So true. People do need misogyny to cope.

-

C: So next spreadsheet- or last spreadsheet tab is our IMDb tab.

G: Whoo! This is- I'm looking forward to this. I feel like I won this season.

C: Yeah, you won this season. You did win.

G: Of course. I mean, I've won every season, right? [laughs]

C: Yeah, you have won every season. So, this is your third win. Your streak is unbroken.

So the average IMDb score for this season was an 8.519, and on average, I was 0.331 points off, while you were on average 0.275 points off. So you did win. Congratulations!

G: Whoo!

C: You are a better IMDb guesser. However, I-

G: This is interesting. ‘Cause like, Supernatural is 8.4, right, on IMDb, like, the average.

C: Oh, okay.

G: So like, this season is better than average? Is that what we're supposed to think? Or is it it doesn't work like that?

C: Maybe? I think that it's just that I think earlier seasons are rated higher in general, probably.

G: Yeah. 'Cause like, I do wonder what season is the most- is the least highly rated.

C: Mm.

G: What's your guess? We'll figure out in like 5, 10 years, or whatever. [laughs] Honestly. 10 years? Hopefully not.

C: 15? I’m guessing-

G: You think Season 15? Because they rated the last one so low.

C: Well, I don't know. Yeah, I feel like people campaigned to try to get "Carry On" really, really low, right?

G: Yeah.

C: Are there other worse seasons?

G: But like, also Season 15 was just suck. Like, it just sucked. I don’t even know why. It sucked. [C laughs] Like, Season 14 was my favorite season of Supernatural. Like, I'm being for real when I say that. There was a point in time where I was like, a Season 14 defender. I would say that now that I'm rewatching the show from the beginning, I'm holding out on saying what my favorite season is again, but like, for a long time, I was like, “Season 14 is the most enjoyable season. I had so much fun.” And it was because there were a lot of episodes there that were like, laugh out loud because of how funny it is.

C: That's fun.

G: And it's just that kind of like, enjoyment. Because it's not like, emotional. It's just like, “Bro, this is funny.” 

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: Yeah. So I love Season 14 for that. But like, Season 15 sucked ass. You can't even tell me that it's because I don't like late stage Supernatural. It's literally just because Season 15 sucked.

C: Yeah. Yeah. And you're sure it's not because Sam is balding so much [G laughs] while he looks good in Season 14?

G: Well, he had a beard in Season 14. Was that Season 14 or 13? 14.

C: Yeah, I think it was in 14.

G: Yeah. Good for him.

C: Right. Comparatively, it looked like Season 1 had a pretty low IMDb average. It had an 8.382.

G: That's interesting.

C: I think it was brought down a lot by “Bugs” and also by “Route 666.”

G: "Route 666," yeah.

C: Season 2 had 8.618, so it's higher than Season 3 by about 0.1. So that is what it looks like so far.

G: Damn.

C: Yeah. So you may have won, but I do just want to mention that I guessed 5 episodes completely correct, whereas you only guessed 2 episodes completely correct.

G: Wow. I think what really dragged you down was-

C: Was "Ghostfacers." Yes.

G: Because I withheld information. [laughs]

C: You sure did. “Ghostfacers” was my most off guess. I guessed 9. It was a 7.6. So I was 1.4 points off. 

G: I guessed what? Did I guess 7.9?

C: You guesed 7.8.

G: Mm, yeah.

C: Yeah. Whereas your most off guess was for “Red Sky at Morning,” where you guessed 8.7-

G: And it was a 9.2.

C: - and the true answer was an 8, because everyone was a hater.

G: Huh? Wait, which one was 9.2?

C: The 9.2 one, "Bad Day at Black Rock."

G: It was also a Bela episode, right?

C: Yeah.

G: “Bad Day at Black Rock.” I always mistake those two for each other-

C: Yeah, same.

G: - because it's like, black/red, and a long title that doesn't make any sense to me.

C: Yes. And they're both Bela episodes. But yeah.

G: Damn.

C: So if we break this down on a writer level, Eric Kripke has the highest IMDb average, at an 8.85, followed by Sera Gamble at an 8.62, followed by Jeremy Carver at an 8.5, followed by Ben Edlund at an 8.4, and followed by Cathryn Humphris at an 8.35. I feel like she's overall not done very well in the writer competition. No, actually, in Season 2, she had- she was the second highest after Eric Kripke. So, fall from grace for Cathryn Humphris, actually.

G: What was her episodes?

C: In Season 2 or in Season 3?

G: Season 3. 3.

C: In Season 3, she wrote “Bedtime Stories,” and she co-wrote “Dream a Little Dream of Me.”

G: That's interesting. Those are not bad episodes. I mean [laughs], “Dream a Little Dream of Me” was quite something, but it wasn't like, bad.

C: "Bedtime Stories" was pretty stupid. [G laughs]

G: "Bedtime Stories"? Ohh! I thought you were talking about like, the children one. No no no, you're right. She did not do well this year. I thought you were talking about the child monsters.

C: Oh, no. That was “The Kids Are Alright.”

G: Yeah. Ben Edlund wrote "Ghostfacers," right?

C: He did write "Ghostfacers."

G: So it's interesting to me that he didn't rank last. I mean, he did write 3 more episodes after that.

C: Yeah, yeah. I think what really boosted his stats was that he wrote “Bad Day at Black Rock.”

G: Which people like! And I don't understand why they like it so much more than the other episodes. But yeah.

C: Yeah, like it was fun, but it's not that much better than the other ones.

G: Yeah. I mean, we've learned since Season 1 to not pay too much attention to-

C: The IMDbs.

G: - why people are rating. Ever since we reached “Houses of the Holy.”

C: Yes. We still have not gotten answers on that. We still don't know what happened there.

G: Yeah! Like why? I have no idea why.

C: I think I should go on archive.org and see when the shift happened. Like, I'm sure that it started out pretty high, and then one day, it started going down.

G: You want to do it now?

C: Or, do you want to do it while I read the director ratings?

G: Okay.

C: So the 4 directors that directed more than one episode are Kim Manners, who directed 4 episodes, Phil Sgriccia, who directed 3. Robert Singer directed 3 episodes, and also co-wrote an episode, “Malleus Maleficarum.” [G laughs]

G: Damn.

C: And Charles Beeson wrote- or sorry. Charles Beeson directed 2 episodes. So our highest rated director, Kim Manners at an 8.875, followed by Phil Sgriccia at an 8.5. Robert Singer, I averaged out his directing and writing episodes, so he has an 8.4 there, and Charles Beeson, least popular at an 8.3. So once more, Eric Kripke and Kim Manners are winning the IMDb vote, even if that is not correct.

Well, actually, I think last season, Robert Singer won the IMDb director vote, so I guess at least he got third place this time instead of first.

G: I think, Crystal, it's always been low. Because this one is from 2007, and it was a 7.8.

C: What? But- but why?

G: Let's see 2009. People hate this- [mocking voice] Why?

Oh, for context, this is “Houses of the Holy.” [laughs]

C: Yeah.

G: We're back to- we're back to.

C: We're just still mad about it.

G: "Houses of the Holy," yeah. [laughs] We're still upset about it.

It was an 8.0 by like, 2009, and it stayed that way- let's see 2015. It was always low. Like, this one, 8.1 in like 2015. Let's see 2019. It stayed that way. It was like, it's always been around 7.8 to 8.1, and it's never- Why?

C: I don't- I don't know.

G: It's so wild to me.

C: I don't know. Is it- like, I guess people never really liked the angels storylines?

G: [laughs] Tough luck.

C: I'm- okay, I'm reading an IGN review of “Houses of the Holy” that was posted in 2009. So okay, one thing is that they said that it follows “Nightshifter,” which everyone likes so so much for some reason. So it feels like a letdown after “Nightshifter.” I don't get it. I don't know why.

G: "Nightshifter" being- [both overlapping] the episode with his best friend- [laughing]

C: - who he just let go. And Sam in a bank vault.

[laughing] I mean, pretty iconic episode in BABPod history, originating 2 of our bits, but they were both bad things.

G: Yeah.

C: Let's see. It says that it's too obvious where the story is leading.

G: Boo! I mean, that's the point. It's obvious, but Sam doesn't believe it.

C: Yeah.

G: 'Cause he wants to believe in something else!

C: He does.

G: Come on, you guys.

C: Yeah. Fucked up.

G: If true. And it is.

C: Let me see if there are any other reviews that are like, from the time.

G: [laughing] This has ceased being about Season 3 and Season 4. [both laughing] And that's okay. We're here to open up old wounds from Season 2.

C: Yeah, I just really don't- There's not any episodes that are like- There's not any reviews that are like, “This episode sucks so much that it deserves one of the lowest IMDb ratings of Season 2.” Like, they're all just like, “This was pretty good.” or “This was okay.”

G: Yeah.

C: Oh, well.

G: No idea why.

Well, that's it for our first part of the episode. Next, we'll have our Q&A. So-

C: Thank you for all of your questions that you definitely submitted. We're recording this before we've gotten any questions. [laughs]

G: [laughs] Yeah, this is like, the day that we announced the Q&A, we're recording this. But yeah. I mean, yeah. Bye.

C: We'll see you.

G: I mean, not bye. We'll say hi again.

C: You'll hear from us in two seconds.

G: Yeah. 3, 2, 1!

-

G: Okay, now, we're here for the Q&A!

C: Hi everyone!

G: Hi everyone.

C: Thank you for your questions.

G: Thank you for your questions. We got quite a bit. So let's start. Why don't you do the first category?

C: Okay. Well, we just have like, a comment that is not a question from Anonymous that says, “this isn't a question I'm just hyped for Cas,” 3 exclamation mark emojis, the flexing emoji, the 100 emoji, and the angel emoji. And like, you're so fucking right, anon. Thank you. We are also so hyped for Cas.

G: When that was sent to us, my first reaction was, “OMG! Cas is literally the angel emoji for real!” [both laughing] I was like, so happy to see the angel emoji for some reason, but it literally is Castiel for real, though. He would use that emoji.

C: It literally is Cas for real.

G: So the first question category is just a couple of fast questions.

C: Quick questions on Season 3, yeah.

G: Yeah. So hells-favorite asks, “Favorite Bela moment?”

C: When Dean goes, “You're not gonna shoot,” and then she shoots Sam in the shoulder.

G: Oh yeah. For me, I suppose, it's in the same scene. It comes right after Dean throws the rabbit's foot, and then she catches it, and she makes a face where she's like, “Oh, fuck my life!” [C laughs] 'Cause like, so real, girl. And also like, it's such a fun thing to do in terms of like, playing with the instincts, you know. Like you instinctually catch it, and Dean is like, “I've figured it out. I'll just mess with her in a way that she can't think." Because like, she's obviously so smart that she won't do anything stupid willingly, so let's like, play with her instincts. I think that's a fun thing to do. Yeah.

C: Yeah, I agree. And I like when Bela's a bit of a loser girl, ‘cause like, she's 24, she's young, and sometimes she is a loser girl, and that makes her cool girl moments better.

G: Exactly.

C: So, my ex-fiancee Danica asks, “Favorite Dean death in ‘Mystery Spot’?”

G: Interesting!

C: Okay, obviously the car hit is like, [both] iconic. But I'm gonna go with when Sam accidentally kills him [laughs] with a hatchet.

G: That is also my answer! Like, because they play it off as so comedic, and it's like, this is so tragic for everyone involved, especially Sam.

C: This is like, a season arc, and they have it as an off-screen joke.

G: Yeah, it's funny. Although to not copy you, I would say that my second one is the piano.

C: [laughs] Yes.

G: The “Who wants Chinese?” and then a piano falls over his head. [C laughs] So much fun, so fun. He literally is a cartoon character.

C: It's pretty good, yeah.

G: And it's just like the whole deal where they like, foreshadow it in a way with the focus on the piano. Like, I don't think you can figure it out first try what they're trying to do, but like, it makes perfect sense, and the payoff is so funny. So good for them.

C: Good for them.

G: So the next question is also from Danica. So, “Most memorable IMDb review.” Damn.

C: So many just escape my brain after we read them. I think the only one I can think of right now is the person who is like, “I figured it all out."

G: Yeah!

C: "Bela and Ruby are working together to make Sam evil, and also he's gonna kill Dean after ‘Mystery Spot.’” [laughs]

G: I mean, I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to like-

C: I think it is a pretty reasonable thing to think. 

G: Yeah. I mean, why do the whole deal with “Mystery Spot” if it's not gonna end in, you know, murder? [laughs]

C: Yeah.

G: Fun times. You know what? For me, it's a recent one, so it's a bit of a cheat, but I really like the one where they gave it 5 over 10 without explaining any reason why. [C laughs] And the review is actually like, on the more positive side, and it's still 5 over 10. That's how I feel about Supernatural. [both laughing] Exactly.

C: Yeah. I agree.

C: So the next one is by hells-favorite again, and it's “What was your favorite case of the season?” I'm gonna look at a list.

G: I think for both- I think you're gonna agree with me about this in some way, but for me, it's either “Long Distance Call,” the case there- 

C: Yes.

G: Or "The Kids are Alright."

C: Yeah, those are also my first instincts.

G: I think we already said it earlier this- Like, not this, you know, episode, but like, way back, we said it, that like, “Oh, these 2 are like super fun in the season." Especially "The Kids Are Alright" because like, creepy. It was truly so creepy, though. Like, while reading this question, I thought about it, and, like, I remembered the like drowning the kid in the lake-

C: Yeah.

G: - and then she goes back home, and the kid is home. Like, that's insane shit.

C: Yes. That was good.

G: Also, the psychological factor that plays into it of like, "Am I crazy? Am I making this up because of the grief that I'm experiencing?" Like, that can be a whole movie in and of itself. It's very good.

C: Yeah, I agree. Also, a lot of season 3 is not [both] cases.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah, like I'd say, the only cases are like, those two, "Sin City," "Bedtime Stories"-

G: [laughs] "Bedtime Stories," yeah. Truly a case.

C: - the pirate ship, and then- Okay, I guess "Supernatural Christmas." But then, like- Yeah, okay, and also like, "Dream a Little Dream of Me" is a case, technically. But then I feel like everything else is just [both] plot stuff.

Yeah, I guess the "Ghostfacers" case is-

G: A case.

C: I know some people found it quite good in that like, they found it actually creepy in an episode that manages to be very comedic, so I guess I will give it that. But I think I did not find it creepy enough to give it that many points.

G: I think the benefit I will give “Ghostfacers” is that after that episode, I started listening to [singing] “it's my party, and I'll cry if I want to-”

C: It's good.

G: - and it's so much fun to listen to, and literally is my party.

C: You literally would cry too if it happened to you.

G: Exactly. I think Season 3 is such a transition episode- such a transition season. Sam went on testosterone. [both laugh] But you know, like, it's very much, Seasons 1 and 2 is a cluster. And then Season 4 and 5 is a cluster. And Season 3 feels like it's in between those 2.

C: Yeah.

G: Especially vibes-wise. Like, I'm talking like, visuals-wise, right? Like, the coloring was different this season, and also- but also the whole, like, cases are lesser, and then the plot is more plotty. But also, the characters themselves. For Dean, we start to see that hopelessness. And then, you know, that gets fully realized in Season 4 onwards. And for Sam, we start to see this like, cold-blooded nature that we start seeing furthermore in Season 4 onwards. So it really is like, it's like the end of the prequel, which I keep calling Seasons 1-3, but it really is, though. It really is, you guys. [both] It really is, though. Yeah.

Should we spoil that we already watched the first episode-

C: Oh, "Laz Rising," and that we're gonna be recording it right after this?

G: Yeah.

C: I mean, sure. Why not?

G: Yeah. So we already watched “Laz Rise.” And truly, you know, everything before this? Child's play.

C: Nothing. Dust.

G: Child's. Play. [C laughs]

Yeah. So our next question is Danica again, our biggest fan. [both laugh] “What is the most iconic episode of the season?” Ah. “Mystery Spot,” obviously. Right?

C: Okay, that is totally true, but I just didn't even think about it. [G laughs] I was thinking “Bad Day at Black Rock,” because-

G: Of Bela.

C: I feel like it has the most scenes that I've seen giffed. Yeah, Bela is iconic. I'm so glad we get to meet her then. And also, obviously Sam losing his shoe-

G: Oh yeah!

C: - is considered such a moment.

G: Yeah. “Mystery Spot” is for me the most iconic one. Like I know a lot- I think maybe we read an IMDb review of this vein where it's like, “This is the first episode that I show people when I want to get them into Supernatural,” which I think is a mistake because you're like, setting them up for disappointment. But if it works, it works.

C: Yeah. Those poor, poor people. I hope no one actually started the show because of “Mystery Spot.”

So next is from my friend Siham who [G laughs] has never listened to this podcast or watched Supernatural [laughs]-

G: But decided to send in questions anyway. Thank you, Siham!

C: She asks, “What do you feel is the most boring episode with nothing remarkable going on, and what is the most overwhelming episode with like, a lot to unpack?”

G: This is interesting for me. I don't think we have an episode this season where I went, “Oh my god, recording this is gonna be a nightmare because it's gonna be so long. Like, the recording is gonna be so long because we're just gonna talk on and on and on."

C: Yeah, I'm pulling up our episode lengths right now to help answer this question. [laughs]

G: No, but we did encounter that problem several times in Season 2 and 1 where we went like, "Okay, how are we gonna tackle this?" like before recording, we go, “How are we gonna tackle this? Because we can't just talk for 3 hours. We need to limit this shit." And like, if you listen to our Season 2 Episode 1 episode, that was back when we were still like, “We shouldn't do 2-hour-long episodes. That's too much!” Because we were still doing twice a week. If you listen to that episode, the cuts are insane. [laughing] Like, we don't explain anything towards the end of the episode, because I was like, “We gotta cut it off. We gotta cut it off.” The original cut of that episode was 3 hours long.

C: Yeah.

G: And I think with Season 3, we really didn't have that, you know? We didn't have a "We should hold ourselves back." Because nothing was like, particularly overwhelming. I think the closest to it was “Mystery Spot” where we talked about how we're gonna talk about it, because you know, the repeats are like, “How are we gonna do that?” But that's it, really. How about you? Do you feel overwhelmed about a particular episode, or do you feel the same?

C: Well, it looks like our longest episode was for “Long Distance Call,” but honestly, that's probably just because of soda. [laughs]

G: We talked about soda for so long.

C: Yeah.

G: Let me pull up our list of episodes.

C: And our shortest one this season is-

G: The Henriksen? No? I thought it was Henriksen's-

C: It's actually “Bedtime Stories" by 3 minutes, which I was gonna say is the most boring episode.

G: That is the most boring episode, yeah. Nothing happens.

C: 'Cause the case is quite nothing, and I don't remember any character moments being there.

G: Yeah, other than, you know, calling Sam gay.

C: Yeah, that is a very important character moment. So that's like the most boring episode. I don't know if “Long Distance Call” has the most going on. I feel like there's a lot to unpack in “Fresh Blood” about like, Supernatural’s general, like, moral stances on things as there is in the whole Gordon arc. But I think that requires sort of you to watch a lot of seasons of Supernatural and then come back to “Fresh Blood.” So I feel like we didn't do too much of that during our actual recording.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah, I think "Mystery Spot," I think, like Sam's revenge arc is something that there's a lot to unpack there that we didn't really do, because it was just too funny when a piano fell on Dean.

G: I think an episode that we should have done better on is the last Henriksen episode, that's for sure.

C: Yeah, "Jus in Bello."

G: "Jus in Bello."

C: Yeah, but also is just a very actiony episode, like I don't know if there's too much character analysis I can think of doing in it.

G: Yeah, but you know, we should have- we could have talked about Henriksen. Which we did discuss prior. Like, “How are we going to talk about Henriksen?” And then we just didn't do it! [both laughing] RIP.

C: RIP. Well, he's gonna come back as a ghost and tell Dean how much being in Hell sucks or something, right?

G: I don't remember this!

C: Did I make this up? Is he never coming back as a ghost? Are we actually done?

G: I think we're done!

C: I just- I feel like I saw a post about Supernatural racism and so that was like, “And then Hendrickson comes back to say how tortured and miserable he is-"

G: That's Kevin, right? That's Kevin!

C: I thought it also happened to Henriksen! Does it not?

G: It doesn't happen to Henriksen! It happens to Kevin. And then he goes, “I love you guys” as he passes through the ether or whatever. [both laughing]

C: Oh my god! Wait, so we're actually never going to see Henriksen again? [laughing] I was like, "Man, it sucks that he died, but at least we're gonna see him as a ghost being so miserable." Do we actually never see him again?

G: Let's look this shit up.

C: Wait, I want to be surprised if he comes back as a ghost. You look it up for yourself.

G: Oh my god! He shows up. You're right.

C: Oh, okay. Well, we can talk about him then.

G: Yeah.

C: Watch us promise this now and then not talk about him at all

G: Real. I'm so sorry, Henriksen.

C: Sorry, Henriksen.

-

G: Okay. So our next category is hypotheticals. So we have- There's one hypothetical specifically that we received a lot of questions from. From maud-moon, from hells-favorite, and from-

C: Anonymous.

G: Yeah. Basically, that question is, “If Bela didn't die in this season or came back in Season 4 or, you know, other seasons, what do you imagine her role would be?” This is interesting to me, because like, I think her dying this season, is like, alright. Like, I don't feel like, “Oh, she shouldn't have died. They should have saved her.” Like, I think actually, it's in character for the Winchesters to be like this. [laughs] And I feel like the better thing to do is to bring her back, you know, not like, not make her die. Because it serves a point in the story, having her die. If we're looking at it from the perspective of “This is a Sam and Dean story,” ‘cause, like, you know, before Dean, somebody else died so like, “Oh, okay, Dean is also dying for real.” Like it cements that heavier, better, you know.

For her individually, for her as a character, I think her dying, you know. Sometimes you need to die to be better. [laughing] That's what I feel. No, I'm just kidding. But like, you know, like, I think that that can be something that can easily be explored in future episodes. Because, like, you know, the guilt, in a way, of killing her parents, even though it was justified. But like, the guilt coming from a place of, “I had to suffer for it anyway, so like, what was the point?” I think that could have been interesting. Stuff like that.

You, what are your thoughts on Bela dying?

C: I feel like from a writer's perspective, Bela’s role in season 3 is some plot armor to like, provide them with case-solving stuff and also as a Dean foil/Dean mirror in terms of like, his deal with Hell, and also like, his relationship with his family, and general moral attitudes towards things. So I feel like, yeah, it makes sense that she died. I mean, I guess they also could have- if they like, figured out some way to save her to like, give them false hope that Dean could be saved, that could also work for her character in Season 3.

G: Oh, interesting.

C: So I don't think she had to die, but I think that it also does make sense for her to die.

Yeah, or I mean, if the Colt trade just worked also, right? Like maybe trading her freedom for the Colt would have just worked. And then, like. Yeah, I don't know, like they would be like, “How do we figure out a trade to get Dean out of his deal?” or “That means we could have traded the Colt to get Dean out of his deal, but because Bela stole it, she's the one who got the benefit,” which I mean, I feel like would just end with more of them being mean to her, though.

G: Coming back. Let's talk about Bela coming back.

I just had this visual thought about like, you know how Eileen comes back for Sam? But like, it's Bela, and she's like, “Hi, Sam,” and it's Sambela endgame, which I think is such a funny thought. [C laughs] Like, imagine picking someone from like way back in Season 3 to be like, “And this is Sam's endgame.” Supernatural would do it.

C: Yeah, Supernatural would.

G: I'm glad they picked Eileen instead.

C: Oh, are we choosing to believe that Eileen was blurry wife? Or-

G: I mean, okay.

C: Or are we ignoring blurry wife?

G: [laughs] The ending of Supernatural is not real to me. Like, I hate to be a denier because I am a firm believer that, like, you have to accept Supernatural for what it is. Supernatural is like your daughter, who is, you know, kind of a fuck-up-

C: A Republican?

G: But you have to love her anyway. [laughing] Yeah.

C: Okay, yeah. So okay, wait. So when you say Bela coming back the way Eileen did, do you mean that she doesn't come back as a demon, she comes back as a ghost?

G: I think that would be interesting. I think her coming back as a ghost would be interesting. Because I think it would be super cool if she was, you know, a spirit. And then, since she knows so much about how spirits work, just like, find her own way back to her, like back to life. I think that would be super super super cool. But then the demon thing, I've seen a lot of that around like on posts and shit like, “What if Bela came back as a demon?” I think it's interesting.

C: You make a good point about her connection to spirits. She's talked to so many ghosts with her ouija board. Do you think she's like, friends with any of them? Would they like, hang out as ghosts?

G: Oh my god, they're gonna hang out at Costco. Like, for real.

C: [laughs] Yeah.

G: Why is my first thought “hang out at Costco”? I've never been. Is it like a membership shopping place? Am I right?

C: It is a membership shopping place. But what you do is that you stand near the door until an Asian family walks by and you walk in with them. [laughs] And then the person at the door just assumes you're in a group.

G: Real.

C: Yeah, I mean, hanging out at Costco, I haven't done with anyone except I guess my sister. But it is a fun place to be. It's so big.

G: So big.

C: But- right, wait. Why did you ask about the membership thing if, like, ghosts- that wouldn't be an issue for ghosts. [laughing] It's not like they would stop Bela at the door?

G: They'd put salt at the door so like only people with cards and living spirits can enter

C: Real.

Yeah. So okay, Bela coming back as a demon I think is interesting in the way that like, if she's trying to like, continue to be a Dean foil or Dean mirror. Like, “This is what would have happened if Cas didn't save you from Hell because you were already torturing people.” You wouldn't become like her. But I feel like that requires her as a demon to be somewhat 2D, which I'm not too interested in. I feel like- Okay, I mean, okay, Bela and Ruby were in the same season in Season 3, but they were never in the same episode because I feel like they decided that they were maybe like, too similar.

G: Separate, yeah.

C: Yeah. So I don't know if Season 4 has room for like another snarky demon besides Ruby. Like, Sam gets his demon and Dean gets his. I have no clue. So I feel like I'm more interested in her coming back in like, maybe seasons after Season 4 the way that Meg comes back after they kill Ruby, you know. As like, I don't know what kind of figure I want her to be, though. Like, I enjoy the idea of her just coming back to get revenge. But I feel like the only way for her to last longer than like, 2 episodes is for her to end up being an ally figure, anyway, which, being an antagonistic ally figure was already her role in Season 3.

I think the world where Bela doesn't die in Season 3 is interesting, in that if Sam and Dean helped her not die, maybe this is the road to like her actually being their friend with no strings attached.

G: Are you talking like she's gonna become a hunter-esque?

C: I don't think she's gonna become a hunter. But I think that-

G: She's gonna be like their Crowley.

C: Yeah, sure. Like, yeah, some of they sometimes call on for help.

G: Their Rowena!

C: Yeah. Oh, true. Yeah. It is sad that we can only think of ways for her to help Sam and Dean, though. Because it's the Sam and Dean Show.

G: I would love to see Rowena and Bela meet. Like, I feel like they would get along. Do you think they would? Maybe Bela is too British [both laugh] for Rowena, but you know.

C: Maybe. I'd like to think they get along.

G: Yeah.

C: I guess also thinking about a future for Bela, it's more "What does she like about her job and what does she want out of life?"

G: Yeah. ‘Cause like, prior to this, she was, you know, thinking short-term.

C: Yeah, exactly. Like, she only had 10 years. So she was like, “I'm gonna get rich and live luxuriously, and I'm going to like, solve everything by myself and not depend on other people, because I don't have too long to live anyway, and also, like, being independent is the only thing that saved my life so far.” But like, if she comes back as like a demon, or like, just doesn't die, she has either eternity or dozens of more years to live, and it's like, does she still want to do her job? I think she likes her job, but I’m not sure what she likes about her job. And she also has enough money to retire if she wants.

G: Oh my god, yeah.

C: Or do like, anything else. And I feel like I don't know enough about what she likes and what she wants to know what she would do. But I think the story of like, “You thought you were only gonna live until you were 24, and now you're facing down eternity, and you don't know what you want anymore.” is interesting, and if she was a main character of Supernatural, like, would have enjoyed to see it.

C: So our next question, Danica asks: “Do you think it would be more narratively interesting if Gordon or Bela came back to life in Season 4?” So-

G: Well, we just talked about the Bela stuff.

C: Yeah. The thing is, Gordon's going to fucking Purgatory, right?

G: Do you think it would be interesting if, like, Dean meets him in Purgatory?

C: Oh, like in Season 8? Huh. The thing is like, not unless they decide that he went through a lot of character development in Purgatory. [laughs] 'Cause I think or else it's just going to be, “Dean kills that guy.”

G: Yeah, it's gonna be a repeat. It's just gonna be a repeat of what we already saw. The thing is, I don't really know how they're gonna do Gordon's character if he is to come back. What I see really, if we're going to talk about it, you know, it's really Bela or Henriksen that's like, have a lot of promise, I feel, in terms of like bringing them back. But Gordon. he's gonna need a lot of character development, and it's not gonna be on-screen.

C: Yeah. And I think I'm more like the idea of him just not dying in “Fresh Blood” and like, somehow, him being turned into a vampire shaking up his worldview enough that like, he like goes off by himself and, like, I don't know, meditates, or some shit. [laughs] Or joins Lenore.

G: Yeah. That was the opportunity for a change of heart. But they passed that by. Yeah, they didn't do it. So I don't think that's particularly gonna be interesting.

G: Okay. So our next question is again from Danica. So, “Do you think this season would have been better if there wasn't a writer’s strike and in a similar vein, do you think you would have preferred Kripke’s original ending for this arc? AKA Sam agreeing to be King of Hell or whatever.”

C: Yes, it would have been better if there were more episodes for Bela's arc.

G: Yes, I agree.

C: But I also like that they had to make Sam's demon blood arc all of Season 4 instead of like, the last half of Season .3

G: Yeah.

C: Like, that is a full season arc to me.

G: Yeah. I think this season would have been better if there was just like, 2 more episodes. But like, I'm not thinking of a full season length still. I think they wrote an okay story for what they have, and the 2 more episodes would have been okay. Again, I like to think of Supernatural as a child who I love no matter what. Like, not love. Accept. [both laugh] Those are different things. I accept no matter what, you know? So like, I accept Supernatural for who she is and what she is and all that shit. So I think longer season, yes, but same arc. Same everything. It ends the same.

C: Yeah, yeah, that man should definitely get torn to shreds.

I do- okay, Sam becoming King of Hell, I don't really know how Kripke wanted to pull that off. It is like, conceptually interesting to me, but I don't know what they'd do in the next season.

G: It's a very different story. It's gonna be a very different story.

C: Yeah.

-

G: So our next category are fun questions! So we got a couple of kiss marry kills, fuck marry kills. One is from anon, so, "Kiss marry kill. Crowley, Rowena, and Meg." I'm gonna kill Crowley. Obviously. [C laughs] I'm a hater, through and through.

C: Yeah. That man is dying. Okay, other two, I know there's an obvious answer, but I think I could fix Meg! [laughs] I think I could marry and fix Meg.

G: You can marry her and fix her? Good for you. You know what, since you're marrying her, I'm going to marry Rowena.

C: Yes. good.

G: Because obviously, for me. I feel like we could be a power couple. I could be one of her like, demonic henchmens.

C: Oh, like one of the guys who like, makes a human chair or whatever.

G: Yeah. Like, I could be her booty-shorted man in Hell. [C laughing] I literally could.

C: You could be one of her boytoys.

G: I can wear booty shorts that say "boytoy" in the back. [C laughs] I'll do it for her.

C: I don't know Rowena as well as you know Rowena. I feel like she's one of those characters who is very iconic, but I actually don't know much about her personality, so it's possible that after I meet her I'll change my mind. But yeah, I believe that I could fix Meg.

G: There's no need to fix Rowena. Rowena's fine. I love her for who she is.

C: Yeah. Yeah, I probably will also.

G: Yeah.

C: Our next fuck marry kill is from hells-favorite, and the options are Rufus, Ed "Ghostfacers," and Casey from “Sin City.” Okay, I think this one's obvious, right?

G: Yeah.

C: Kill Ed, marry Rufus, and fuck the girl demon from “Sin City.”

G: Yeah. Yeah! I mean, girl demon- I think her name's Casey.

C: Yeah, yeah, her name's Casey.

G: Wow! I remembered that. Look at us! Look at me. But like, Casey, I'd give her a little peck on the cheek, and I'll say, “Good luck, buddy.”

C: Yeah.

G: I'll kill Ed.

C: Because she's got her thing with the priest going on, apparently. That came out of nowhere.

G: Yeah, she's fucking a priest. Yeah, they're Fleabag-ing it out in the window.

And I would say I'll marry Rufus, but I do not expect it to be a particularly good marriage. I feel like he's so mad about the things that have happened in his past, rightfully so, but I am young, and I want to explore the world. [both laugh] Maybe I should marry the girl demon in "Sin City," and I could be her priest boyfriend, and we could explore the world together.

C: That's a good point. I guess, I mean, I'm fine with being married but somewhat separated from Rufus. We can hang out on the weekends.

G: Real.

C: But you're right that currently, he's living in a state of social isolation, born out of like general fear from hunting. So it would- it would maybe be difficult. But, like I don't know. Maybe we could manic pixie dream girl him.

G: Yeah!

C: Maybe being young and wanting to explore all parts of life will bring like, charm back into his life. Who knows?

G: Exactly. Who knows?

G: Our next question is again from hells-favorite. “So Dean gets a dog in the finale, as you know, but some fans think he should have gotten a cat. He's way more of a cat person, and I’ll die on that hill. He doesn't even like dogs.” Good for you, hells-favorite. "What pet would you guys give Dean?"

G: I agree with you.

C: I'm also anti-dog. Like, he was torn to shreds by hellhounds and I feel like he'd still have trauma about that.

G: He literally was torn to shreds. I've seen people say, or maybe I didn't see people say this, I just made it up in my head and then got angry about it, that it's like, "It's a symbolism of him breaking free from like, the trauma of his past." [C laughs] I think I just made that up to be mad at. But, like I do not agree. I think it's stupid, and I don't think he likes dogs at all. But like, who knows? He likes dogs in “Dog Dean Afternoon.”

C: [laughing] "Dog Dean Afternoon"! So true.

G: My favorite. My favorite episode.

C: Yeah- cats? Well, at least the one thing we know about Dean is that he would not be an outdoor cat person, which is good. Because he'd be like, “Oh my god, you're leaving me, just like everyone else leaves me?” It wouldn't be about the safety of the birds in his neighborhood. It would just be about him still being mad that Sam went to college. So at least he would not be one of those people who let their cats out.

I don't know if he's more of a cat person. I think, okay, we talked about this briefly before the recording, and Grey, you said that the first step of Dean getting a pet is to get out of the bunker first.

G: For sure, though, yeah. Get them out of that bunker.

C: Yeah. Those animals need some amount of natural light. And then I referenced a fic idea that you had that you never wrote about Cas trying to take care of a tomato plant in the bunker, and then it dying, and him having a breakdown. And like, yeah, that is, whatever would happen to any pet in the bunker.

G: Yeah.

C: I don't know animals Dean would like. I think well, Cas has mentioned wanting a cat and a hamster. So I think that he should get either of those things for the- or, not a hamster. A guinea pig.

G: I quite like the idea of Dean- 'cause like, if we think about it, it's like, the car is his pet, you know?

C: The car is his girlfriend.

G: Ugh. [C laughs] I mean, sure whatever.

C: But sure, yeah, the car is his pet.

G: The car is his pet. But like, I like to think that maybe Dean would benefit from like- Okay, here's the thing. The dog thing, maybe not a big dog. Maybe that's gonna be my thing. Like, not a big dog. It's like a tiny dog, a shi tzu, or like, I don't know. A scared chihuahua that he needs to be gentle with. I quite like the idea of Dean having a pet that he can't be rough with or he can’t read the way you read humans.

C: Yeah.

G: Because I feel like in a character development point of view, that would be pretty good for him. You know what I mean?

C: Yeah.

G: Like, to be able to look at an animal and admit to himself that, like, “I don't know what's going on in this thing’s mind, and I'm gonna try to figure it out," instead of, you know, "I know what you want.” Because dogs are super expressive, and they're the baseline kind of pet, right, you know? Like if you look online, how to blah blah blah with dogs, you'll get answers immediately. But like, with a pet that's a little bit more obscure, he'll have to put in more effort to understand and take care of said pet, and I think that will be good for him.

C: Yeah. I agree.

So our next question is from Danica again. And she asks, “If you were Lucifer’s spoiled little princess, how would you rest and relax?”

G: I tried to put myself in the mindset of evil for this question, [C laughs] and I literally can’t. Like, I feel so bad. What am I going to do? Kill people? Kill animals? That's so sad. [C laughs]

C: I mean, you wouldn't have to. You could just mess with them.

G: I think I would terrorize a billionaire.

C: Yeah. That would be fun.

G: Just one. I mean, maybe all of them. But you know.

C: I- yeah. Huh. I possess Misha Collins and make him come out as straight again. [G laughs] No.

G: God.

C: This is an incredibly boring answer. I'm sure there are way more fun ways to take advantage of being a demon, but all I can think of is like, possessing random celebrities and having them say wack shit, so. This question is not for boring people.

G: I think if I was a super spoiled little princess and I'm going on a vacation, I'll just go on a regular-ass vacation, except I don't have to pay for anything. Like, that would be my only thing that I do.

C: Yeah. Good point.

G: Yeah. Oh my god, we have a question for me! From maud-moon that's quite unrelated to Supernatural, but I'm so so so happy somebody asked. So, “This next question is just for Grey. Who's your favorite Ace Attorney character from the original trilogy series?” And they mentioned that they're saying original trilogy, because they already know that I like Shi-Long Lang, who is from Ace Attorney: Investigations 1 and 2, Prosecutor's Path. Yes! [C laughs] That's my promo for the day. I would say original trilogy, I haven't played the original trilogy in like 10 years, or something stupid. Like, it's been so long. But if we're talking main line, so like, original trilogy, plus the 3 other mainline games after that, it's Klavier Gavin. Crystal, do you know this person?

C: You've sent me various images of him while like, lusting.

G: No! [laughs] I was not lusting. I think I was making fun of his-

C: He says "action." What does he say?

G: "Achtung." Or I don't know. I don't know how to pronounce it. I think it's "Achtung." "Achtung, baby!" It's like "attention" in German.

Yeah. He's my favorite. He's my fave. And I just like it when men are attractive and have a thing. Like, Shi-Long Lang is like a werewolf wannabe, and Klavier is a rockstar. I like it when they have things going on for them. And that's not really much of a thing in mainline, original trilogy. Although when I was young, I really liked Franziska. That kind of faded over time. I guess, like, when you grow old, the characters that you end up liking also grow in age. Do you find that true for you? I mean, obviously, when you're a kid, you look up to people who are closer to your age, right?

C: That's true. Yeah.

G: And then, like Franziska, I think, was like 17 when her first game, or 18 or something, and I had such a massive crush on her. Like, so big. I was in love with her. And I was defending- like, she has a whip, and she whips people, and people were like, "Oh, that's abusive. Physical violence is bad." And I was out there defending her. Like, "Can't women do anything?" I literally [C laughing] was fighting for my fucking life defending her. I was so right, though, and she was my favorite in the original trilogy. Maybe I should replay it so I can answer this question better, you know.

C: Just to answer this question, yeah.

G: Just to answer this question. Among other things.

-

C: Okay, so we have a question from hells-favorite, which is very sweet, and it's, "Me and my girlfriend met through Supernatural fandom, and we live together. Our second anniversary is coming up, and I have no idea what to do for it. What should I give my girlfriend for our anniversary?"

G: Yeah. You know, this is the question that we talked the most about, [laughing] and up until now, we still don't know what to say. What I said was related to a question that I answered in the previous Q&A where I said that I like my Supernatural Dean Winchester ring because it's my dad's ring, and I wear it on the finger Dean wears his mom's ring. So it's like a Supernatural thing, but also a family thing. So I think doing something that's related to your common interest, which is Supernatural, but also like, coming from a personal place would be very nice. You know, something like that.

C: Yeah. And I could not think of anything.

G: Oh my god, I just thought of an excellent one.

C: Okay.

G: 'Cause they said what to do. So this is not like, a gift, but like, something to do, right? Why don't you go on a road trip? If you're like, I don't know, if you're from the United States, that would be fun, right? A Supernatural thing? [laughs] You go on a road trip?

C: Driving a car is such a good Supernatural reference, you guys. [G laughing]

G: Maybe get a Chevy, and, like, you know, "driving around in my '67 Chevy" or something. However that song goes.

C: Oh, yeah, the one about Dean Winchester, yeah.

G: No, no! The "Night Moves" song. You don't know your Baby lore.

C: Oh. Sorry, I do not.

Yeah, I don't know. I do agree that experiences can be more fun than items, in which case- I don't know. I feel like concert tickets are like kind of basic, though. I don't know what one gets a girlfriend of 2 years.

G: Yeah. Never been [laughs], never been in that situation, unfortunately. [C laughing]

C: Nor I, so. Yeah, okay, I think a gift that I really like was my ex-fiancee, for one of my birthdays, she got me like a planner, but in it, she had like, written like, on each day of the calendar, where, like we had like a a fun conversation, or something she like, wrote it down, so it was like a look back at like, the last few years that we had together as friends, and it had a lot of sentimental value-

G: That is adorable.

C: - so I guess something like that could also be fun, but you have to Venmo $200 first. [laughs]

G: For the idea.

C: [laughs] Yeah. But I don't know, also, if you had like specific things that coincided with like, maybe Supernatural episodes? Like, "Oh, this episode aired on this day, and like, there's like this specific memory that I have, or this specific thing that I like about you that's related to the episode-"

G: That's fun!

C: You could write it on the day that that episode aired.

G: Yeah, you could do Stackednatural, but like romantic. [C laughs] Not like watch Supernatural-

C: [laughs] God.

G: But like, you know, the the journal thing. Yeah. Semi-related, but like I gave someone a gift once where I folded like, I think, like, a hundred origami stars and put them in a jar, and like every star, if you pop it open and unfold it is like, a memory that we have together-

C: Aww.

G: - or like a message that I have for you, or a song recommendation, or whatever. And, like my best friend still has that jar in her room, and she still opens them when she's upset. Which is like, super cute, right?

C: Aw. That is really nice, yeah.

G: Yeah, that one's nice. I don't know how to connect it to Supernatural, though. So, unfortunate.

C: Fold all the stars out of printed photos of Castiel.

G: [laughing] You just open it and it's just a picture of Cas!

C: It's just Cas.

G: Yeah, it's to cheer you up.

C: Exactly.

G: Yeah. Okay, for our last question. So last season, we had an anon who asked us about like, what we're looking forward to, and we didn't know how to interpret it, so they clarified it, and like, basically what they're asking is, "What are you looking forward to in general in Supernatural?" Not just like, per season, but like, in general.

C: And this is the anon who warned us that Season 3 would suck-

G: And they were right.

C: - and I do think about that message often.

G: They were so right. Like, so real. Well obviously, I look forward to Cas. But he's here, baby! He's here. And other than that, I think I'm really looking forward to a lot of the levity that future Supernatural has. I like it when TV shows are funny. And that's really really weird, considering that I hate it sitcoms. I truly do. But I like it when shows are funny! So, you know, I want Supernatural to be funny.

C: I'm looking forward to Jack. I'm looking forward to Mary coming back eventually, and like, whatever like myth-shattering is going to happen there. And I also feel like I know like, Dean and Cas's plot lines for later seasons, but not so much Sam's. So just meeting late seasons Sam, I'm looking forward to that.

G: Yeah.

C: Okay, wait. Usually, at end of each season wrap up, we try to rate- we try to order the seasons like based off quality, right? Like, last time, we said Season 2 is worse than Season 1, right?

G: Season 3 is below everything. [laughs]

C: Yeah, probably. I don't remember exactly how I felt about Season 2.

G: Well, we didn't feel too good about Season 2.

C: Yeah, I feel like I did not like Season 2.

G: The thing about Season 2 is it started off strong, and then it slowly wavered to like, a fizzle. But like, Season 3 started out bad and ended up okay, but like, still bad.

C: Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm thinking about it a bit more, and I think I agree with you. I think that so far, Season 1's the best, followed by Season 2, followed by Season 3.

G: Yeah. Okay! So that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 4, Episode 1 [C screams]: "Lazarus Rising." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on twitter at twitter.com/BeautiesPodcast and on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thank you to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, and check out our Redbubble merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at our email, bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com.  See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[the-cat-chat]

March 11, 2023

Triangle of Sadness (2022)

Carl and Yaya, a couple of influencers, are invited to a luxury cruise ship alongside a group of out of touch wealthy people. The situation takes an unexpected turn when a brutal storm hits the ship.

JayBell: I’m not a huge fan of the big award shows, but seeing a comedy on the list of nominations for Best Picture I was a little surprised. And a little curious.

I had no clue what to expect going into this movie besides what I read of the synopsis. And after watching, I’m not sure it’s really a “comedy.” It is satirical in many ways, but I’m not sure that I found it funny per se. It’s hard for me to describe this movie. It’s White Lotus plus The Menu plus Titanic plus Castaway. I could not predict the events of this movie, not by a long shot, and there’s something fun about its unpredictability.

I definitely picked up on the themes of equality and classism. The power dynamics between people of different classes, between different generations, between genders, and between couples. It was crazy to see how a return to a blank slate, where money and status means nothing, can change the social hierarchy.

As for the ending, normally I don’t like this ambiguous, open style. But I actually like how you can decide what happens on your own (or at least what you want to happen).

P.S. I’m taking off a whole point for the long, detailed, and extended vomiting scene. Yes, an entire point. I hate watching vomiting in media so much this movie should have its own warning.

P.P.S. Rip Charlbi Dean Kriek. She did a great job in this movie and it’s weird she wasn’t in the memorial at the Oscars despite being in a movie that’s nominated for Best Picture?

Rating: 5.75/10 cats 🐈

Anzie: I remember seeing the thumbnail for this movie a few weeks ago and thinking “oooOooo that looks good.” And I watched it and you’ve got Woody Harrelson as a captain and a BUNCH of puke- and I immediately was like “ummm okkahyyy.” And it left my mind until now. And I have to sayyyy the puking is a BIT MUCH to say as little as possible about THAT but there is sooooooo much to this movie.

So much is happening the whole movie like honestly a review is pointless. Just watch it. It might be like 10 hours long but it is so entertaining with the continually evolving plot points and focuses and dynamic shifts with the characters. And it absolutely BONKERS! Like that Captain’s Dinner Scene- I’ve never seen anything so horrific. And the discussions on societal issues is clearly there and poked at but you can get the message in a potent way while just be able to look at surface value of the movie- which just feels so weird bc the more you think of the issues it’s pointing out the better the whole movie gets. And the actors were great and insane and just made everything work so awesomely. It really can’t be reviewed it just has to be experienced. The overwhelming show of how power dynamics affect us as human beans, but also just navigating the roles expected in our relationships and how gender affects that, but also the concept of WOOdY HarRElsoN beING A YacT CapTAin and a SOCiaLiSt?!? It’s a doozy. But very fun. And the END!?!?!!?!?!?! Yessssssss. It was an unexpected good time.

Rating: 7/10 Cats 🐈