#i know it gets more complicated there with queer baiting and coding and lack of rep and ALL that

[tangents-within-tangents]

Local Ace overthinks headcanon and shipping culture

Happy ace week, my friends! Imma be posting some aspec hc's this week so I felt the need to overexplain my personal stance on orientation headcanons and such

To start, as with any and all fandom things: to each their own. People can do whatever they want, and (for the most part) I can choose what I do or don't engage with. I know that hc and shipping and stuff is mostly for fun, or for seeking/creating representation, no hate to anyone who does it and enjoys it.

But also sometimes things can be problematic and I can still be bothered by those things. Even things that are 'just for fun' or 'not for you' can impact and reflect our views and behaviors, so it's still worth speaking about.

Aro/ace-spec identities are really diverse and complex, and we're really underrepresented as is. We have historically and chronically been plagued by problematic misconceptions and tropes, both in canon representation (or lack thereof) and fanon mindsets. Some of the main issues to be aware of with this topic specifically:

The majority of (sometimes unintentional) representation being non-human characters (like aliens and robots) implying that sex/romance = humanity and/or a fulfilling life. (Here's some video essays that touch on this: X X)

Related stereotype issues like racist or ableist de-sexualization and infantilization of certain groups like Asian men, physically disabled people, or people with autism. (It's an intersectionality thing bc yes those people can be aro/ace as well but it's still complicated) (more video essays! X X)

Common erasure of historically aspec characters in favor of allo plotlines bc that's "more interesting/realistic". Or ignoring canonically established aspec characters in favor of allo shipping (often excused by the fact that some aro/ace people do have sex/relationships, which is true but the complexities and nuances are often ignored and there's lots of double standards) (Here's some posts that touch on this: X X X)

Amatonormativity's over emphasis on sex/romance as a fundamental and necessary part of life, which is often reflected in how media and shipping culture are generally allo-centric, and it can just get pretty pervasive at times (note: we aren't a monolith obv, some aro/ace people enjoy it and participate too, but others don't and it is hard to avoid) X X

So while I know there's lots of reasons for shipping and headcanoning, and for the most part there's nothing wrong with it and people aren't trying to do these things, there are still issues that exist. Honestly seeing posts talking about these things has been really validating for me bc it let me know like yeah this is a problem other's have noticed too and I don't have to just accept it.

So with respect and awareness of nuance, ship and headcanon however you want. The rest of this post is about my own personal preferences and such. I'm not necessarily trying to persuade anyone here, I just have some thoughts I want to put into words:

For me personally, when it comes to characters' sexualities/gender identities/etc, I prefer just to stick to whatever is established in canon (or in confirmed intentional coding), and, if nothing is specified, headcanons that are based in canon evidence (more like theories I guess, as opposed to reimaginings or straight-up projection that knowingly ignores parts of canon. Which is fine and fun if that's what you like but to me there is a distinction). This is because:

1: While fandom culture is all about freedom and creativity, I do think it's important in this day and age to recognize actual canon representation and strive towards that because that is what will reach more people and have impact (and personally I think that writers' intentions should actually be given more thought/value)

2: I think that shipping/hc/fandom culture in general tends to perpetuate amatonormativity (specifically in devaluing/erasing friendship and non-romantic love), and sometimes leads to harmful parasocial queer speculation in real life (though again, I know that's not the intention but it's still a thing).

3: Generally, unless it’s explored as a part of a reimagined fic or something, just saying a random character is aspec (or whatever identity) when they did not present that way at all in the actual media doesn't really help me feel seen.

For example, I've seen a lot of people headcanon Mabel Pines as aromantic and that really threw me off bc in the show she is obsessed with romance. Like if other's see themselves in her that is great I won't stop you (the idea is that her crushes are comphet, which is not something I personally struggled with, and maybe I could see it if I rewatched the show with that in mind) but when I watched the show, I specifically did not connect with or relate to Mabel BECAUSE of my ace identity (yeah this post was mainly about her lol) so it just doesn't do much for me to claim her as aspec, in fact it feels counterproductive.

Sometimes it can feel really tacked on too, like 'well it's not confirmed that this character has sex so they could be ace', or 'some ace people do have sex so they can still be ace.' And like sure yes they could be but often it's like a kid show or something so none of the characters' sex lives are relevant or explicitly confirmed. Just bc they aren't not ace doesn't mean that they are, or that saying they are is meaningful if the character/story doesn't actually speak to anything related to the ace identity or experience. (This can happen with canon characters too, like Sponge Bob being asexual means absolutely nothing to me, especially since I get the sense that the creator said that more in a 'sea sponges reproduce asexually' type of way :/ )

So basically, in terms of representation I prefer the theory/interpretation type of headcanons that have supporting evidence of some kind, because that evidence is what makes me see myself in a character and feel represented in some way by them. So that's the type of headcanons I'll be posting, and that's why I'll be discussing evidence and explanations, even though I know plenty of people have fun and find value in just claiming identities without any of that.

Another thing I feel the need to overexplain is kinda the reverse of that. I think it's important to recognize that a character does not have to be a certain identity for you to see yourself in them. Like that sense of relatability and representation is still valid even if they aren't, and I think it's good to leave space for that ambiguity.

This is coming mostly from the fact that I have always valued platonic relationships (between any and all genders) long before I ever knew I was ace. I've always wished that was better normalized and represented in media and real life. I think that is just as important as queer representation, and sometimes they can counteract each other.

Like yes Min and Ryan could be gay and if that's what the writers were going for despite restrictions, or if people see themselves in that, great! But I would also love for this story to give a close friendship this much narrative value for once.

Merida does not HAVE to be aro/ace (or lesbian) to not want to be forced into marriage with a stranger at the age of 16 (in fact she specifically says "I'm not ready" and "not yet"). But regardless, aspects of her story are still really relatable to us and applicable to living in amatonormative society.

Mako and/or Raleigh do not NEED to be aspec for this glorious refreshing no-romo moment to happen (nor does one need to be aspec to appreciate it)

And maybe claiming them as aro/ace could even undercut the power of this platonic bond (like saying the only way they could not be interested in each other is if they are not interested in anyone (same if you said they are gay, as if that's the only possible way for a man and woman not to be attracted to each other)). But it's still a moment lots of us aspecs love because platonic relationships AND aro/ace characters do go hand in hand and BOTH are so rarely portrayed in media.

So these ideas also play into my preferences, and I want to acknowledge that my headcanons don't have to be definitive (which like I know that is normal amongst fandom culture anyway) but are more about pointing out aspects we can see ourselves in and relate to, especially in a media landscape that is so lacking in representation and understanding of our identities.

[dotthings]

Since yes I do remember I have a tumblr and should probably use it to express myself because I’m wordy. After witnessing stan twitter 1,345, on a platform where nuance isn’t exactly common, I have some thoughts.

First: No EP or writer from spn has ever denied Destiel exists or ever told shippers to stop seeing or stop talking about it or mocked us for seeing it in their work. The writing team (which includes several queer writers) continues to work in textual level material as well as subtext and queer coding.

Second: A majority of Destiel fandom doesn’t harass and hate on the cast/crew/writers and we can see how Destiel’s now becoming increasingly textual in intent. We’re pragmatic about the chances of openly declared confirmation. That doesn’t make it less “real.” It’s getting more and more exhausting witnessing a subset angrily shouting down their own ship and attacking the show as a whole. That isn’t how I feel about spn and Destiel and I know I’m not alone on this. I’m not invalidating their rage. I’m tired of all of Destiel fandom being blamed for the behavior of a few and I don’t think the ones who behave like that are how most Destiel shippers act or how they see the situation (which is complicated) or how most shippers feel. Some are more wary than others, without being vitriolic or close-minded about Destiel and canon. Destiel fandom is not a groupthink.

Destiel is an important part of the show. It’s actually the relationship that is my personal heart center, and I’ve been yelled at plenty just for feeling that way about it, but it’s moot, canon made me feel that, canon gave me the ample content for Dean and Cas and their relationship, canon had opportunities to remove it, to end it, and never did. Instead canon built it up and added layers and made them even closer. Their relationship has been part of the A-plot. Even if it’s not the center of the show, it’s still crucial. (When are people going to get this simple concept? Something doesn’t have to be THE center to still be greatly important). For context, I’m a fan of Team Free Will too, and the bro bond, not just Destiel, and have been watching SPN since the pilot aired.

At some point under Dabb’s tenure on SPN, the way canon handled Destiel changed, from subtext, to moments where it broke into full text in ways I could no longer unsee how seriously the writing team takes this ship. I went from calmly resigned it was never going to actually be a thing, to the hair on the back of my arms standing on end because stuff was happening, and continued to happen, and it was no longer confined entirely to subtext, even if it wasn’t consummated or loudly confirmed.

Because there’s still people who straw man this kind of discussion, let me state very clearly: you are not wrong to want more open, loud representation.

Also: there is nothing wrong with wanting Dean and Cas to kiss. Or hoping for a sex scene. I’d be delighted if SPN goes that far. But if you’re out there insisting a kiss or some other explicitly sexual gesture is the absolutely, hard line the only way it will ever “count” you are hurting other fans, you are erasing the actual queer content. If you would burn the internet down in rage because Dean and Cas gets confirmation via a hand-hold or verbal confirmation or even a 3rd party statement penny drop when they aren’t even in the room, and claim that it doesn’t “count” and it’s “not enough” while you go on the attack, that’s not supportive of the ship or the work the writers have done to give it to fans as much as they can.

There has to be room for ships that fall between “loudly openly confirmed with sex scenes” and “nothing in canon backs this ship and it’s only fanon.”

Destiel in canon has had to date more canon build-up, more material, more arcing, than some canon ships in various fandoms. Yet people still deny its validity. Why is that? Why is that?

I’m not going around claiming a ship like that is incredible representation. There’s better representation available. Maybe go support that instead of obsessively attacking SPN, the crew, the cast, and turning against your own OTP.

There has to be room for multiple choice options rather than just “malicious queerbaiters!!��� to allow for ships like Destiel where it’s obvious from the canon the creatives are taking it seriously in terms of story but are being held back from taking it where they would like to go with it. We won’t know until spn is over whether Destiel is getting its loudly open confirmation and consummation or not. I’m not making you promises, I’m not claiming to have inside info, I’m not claiming I know how this will go. I’m describing to you what I can see, with my eyes, so far, in both canon, which is borne out by extra-textual comments and incidents, but the extra-textual back-up is just support for what I can see in the canon.

I’d also like to know since when is fandom wank more important than the actual canon content. When did the drama and conflicts within the parasocial relationship between the people who make the show and fans become the thing calling all the shots here while people ignore the canon.

Let’s play a game. Close your eyes. Breath deeply. Imagine SPN canon, everything playing out exactly as it has in canon up to this point, but in fandom there was never a loud group of obsessed antis pounding in your ears calling you delusional or fake fans or ruining spn for seeing it. There were never antis repeating the weirdly contradictory “this show is about FAMILY so Destiel can’t be a thing.” There were never antis twisting the canon into uncrecognizable knots so they could deny and deny and deny how much Dean and Cas care for each other even as friends, along with their phobic anti-shipping concern trolling. There were never antis supposedly on your ship team (Destiel shippers who are hurt and disappointed at the lack of loud, open confirmation, which is valid, but some turned toxic over it) telling you there’s nothing there and you’re only being baited and it’s not real and you’re delusional for seeing it and a traitor to the ship if you see anything good for Destiel in the canon. Imagine you never heard of twitter.

Imagine that.

Would you doubt what’s before your eyes? Would you deny it was valid?

[itsclydebitches]

Wait what was the mess with Ilia/queer representation? I don't usually look into these things so I probably didn't hear or see people talking about it

Happy to explain! First, the obligatory disclaimer: Ilia is a complicated case and, like anything else in RWBY, her place in the show is very much up to interpretation. I think her character arc, particularly in relation to her status as a queer character, is an absolute mess but I know others are of the opposite opinion. Many of the “flaws” I point out are perceived as her greatest strengths. So it’s subjective.

That being said, I wrote a little bit about this during Volume 5 when it was all going down. A simplified list of the primary issues includes:

Introducing your first, long-awaited queer character as a villain (even a sympathetic one)

“Redeeming” her in the span of one episode in a way that provides no punishment/responsibility/growth in the face of the horrific acts she committed

This character is left behind by the story at the end of the volume, presumably never to be seen again outside of, perhaps, a final battle that includes the whole cast

Tying her queerness directly to her villainy

It’s this last point that I take the most issue with. See, the fandom is right to point out that Ilia has motivations for her actions established throughout the volume, namely the death of her parents and the general racism that is still pervading Remnant. Ilia says multiple times throughout Volume 5 that this is why she’s going after Blake and her family. Because she honestly believes that they are a threat to the faunus’ progress. However, just because a character says something doesn’t make it true. Take Yang in the same season. She says she doesn’t want/care if Blake ever comes back to the group, which anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the show knows is BS. Rather, Yang’s emotions are functioning on multiple levels. A part of her really doesn’t want Blake to return because she’s still furious with her, whereas a larger part of her wants them to reconcile. Now, apply that logic to Ilia. It’s absolutely true to say that she’s motivated by activism and the death of her parents, however, her confrontation with Blake reveals that this isn’t the only reason for her attack. It is, arguably, not even the primary reason. Ilia gives a speech about how they need to be doing more for the faunus, how she doesn’t like to hurt people but she can’t deny that it has gotten them results. Yet when Blake challenges this part of her identity - you’re not a killer - the conversation unexpectedly takes a turn. When pushed to explain how she became this way Ilia does not reiterate her thoughts on racism or the trauma of her parents’ deaths. Instead, she starts talking about her unrequited feelings for Blake: 

Suddenly, Ilia’s motivations have changed. Or rather, they’ve become more complicated. Both sets of motivations exists, but this is the one she admits to under duress, framing it as more “true” than what she’s been saying prior to this conversation. Now, Ilia shows personal motivations rather than just the generically good rhetoric of I Want To End Racism Because It’s Bad. Having Blake down on her knees, shipping her off to Adam, and killing her parents is explicitly connected to the (perceived) problem of, “You didn’t love me.”  Blake is positioned as responsible for who Ilia became: You want to know why I’m like this? You were too busy looking at Adam. I wanted you to look at me that way but you didn’t. That’s how I learned that we can’t always get what we want. So now you don’t get to have what you want (your parents’ safety, distance from Adam). You get to feel what I felt when you didn’t love me back. When Blake poses the question of, “Why are you like this?” Ilia’s answer is “Because I’m queer, have unrequited feelings, and that taught me that life sucks. Now I’m returning the favor.” 

Suddenly, Ilia’s actions are removed from the (already ethically dubious) logic of treating Blake this way because she believes it will help the faunus in the long run and instead are implied to stem from a desire to punish her for not reciprocating those feelings. In this moment Ilia moves from a misguided activist-turned-terrorist and instead becomes a misguided lesbian seeking revenge. She might not admit it - she never explicitly says that she’s punishing Blake for not loving her - but that’s the implication by taking the conversation in this direction; by having Ilia answer with her sexuality rather than her activist views. By drawing such an overt connection between these actions and Ilia’s admission, these things - the impending death of Blake’s parents, kidnapping her, sending her back to her abuser - are framed as things that she “deserves” according to Ilia. If you’d just looked at me with love from the start we never would have ended up here. This falls into a number of horrible tropes including, but not limited to, The Predatory Gay, The Psycho Lesbian, and The Queer Character Falling For Their (Presumably) Straight Friend.

Now, the takeaway here is not “You can never write villainous queer characters.” More often than not any statement beginning with “You can never write ____” is going to be a bad take. Indeed, there are tons of queer/queer coded villains who I adore. That doesn’t mean I want media to perpetuate that long, stereotyped history though. “But Clyde,” the world says. “That doesn’t make any sense. How can you both want and not want this setup?” To which I respond with the iconic words of Jane Lynch:

People’s identities are made up of multiple parts and those parts can read the same writing choice in different ways. As a queer person who loves the ~drama~ of a flamboyant villain I want that entertainment (like Watts). As a queer person who is disgusted by the implications tied to that trend (you’re evil, you’re unnatural, you’re sick, you deserve to be punished, to be killed) I don’t want to see our only queer character be a villain. Which is what Ilia was at the time of her reveal. She was all we had and we didn’t know if RT would ever going to give us anyone else. That was just awful to watch and worry about. It didn’t make me happy. Which sounds like a shit thing to say - This isn’t your story! It doesn’t cater to you! - but after years of waiting for queer rep it felt like a kick in the teeth to get this character in this way and leave her behind when we had a cast of five main women right there, any of which could have been queer. Ilia’s reading was made worse by the lack of rep surrounding her, but to be frank things haven’t improved much. I adore Saphron and Terra, I think they were really well done as characters, but they’re still very minor characters and we can’t ignore that, like Ilia, they were left behind by the story. Blake and Yang are not canon yet, leaving all the hints at their relationship sitting in the limbo of, “Is this just queer baiting?” If you’re someone who pays attention to queer coding, a lot of queer-coded men have been killed off in this show (Roman, Ozpin, Clover). We supposedly have one trans character… whose identity thus far only exists in a tweet.

Kudos to RT for hiring a trans voice actor - they absolutely deserve recognition for that - but it’s still not enough in this day and age. It’s 2020. Queer coding, queer minor characters quickly shuffled off screen, and queer “rep” in the form of paratextual info simply doesn’t fly. We decided that in the most vocal terms possible during the Harry Potter era, a fandom that took over most of the world and, thus, had one hell of an impact on media going forward. No, it’s not rep if you say Dumbledore is gay in an interview but never work that into the story. It’s not rep if you say May is trans on Twitter but don’t work that into the story. Not unless both characters are supplemental additions to a canon already filled with a variety of queer rep. “It’s so cool that this character is also queer! I get why you didn’t have time to work that in, so it’s a good thing we have those five other characters to identify with.” RT might do that in the future. Blake and Yang might become canon in Volume 8. May might be confirmed in the show. Saphron and Terra might unexpectedly arrive to become a part of the story again. We simply don’t know. But as of right now Ilia is one of only three in-canon queer characters out of a cast of ten bajillion (approximately lol) and out of those three she is the only one who was developed into a well-rounded character. That means nearly the entirely of RWBY’s rep rests on her shoulders. I think her queerness is fine for a cast already full of queer characters. There it functions as good diversity - “Some lesbians do join extremist groups and blame unrequited love for their murder plans!” - rather than representation for lesbians/queer people as a whole - “It’s a good thing we have these three other heroic lesbians in RWBY to balance out the message Ilia sends!” But since we don’t have that the takeaway is just what we’ve seen for decades: Queer characters are villains. Queer characters are violent and predatory. Queer characters are written out of the show.

Historically, Ilia’s characterization has problems on its own, but those problems were very much exacerbated by making her the first and, at that point, only queer rep. I - and no doubt others - would have been far more receptive to her as representation if we’d already gotten queer heroes prior to her introduction. And again, that’s a preference. Some fans want more queer villains as a way to say, “Anyone can be queer.” For me though, I’ve seen enough Ilias throughout my life. I’ve seen enough versions of my identity painted as unwanted and dangerous. I was expecting RWBY to do better and I hope that they will do better in the future.

[ctl-yuejie]

the sleuth of the ming dynasty: first thoughts

(mildest spoilers up to episode 6 / this got super long, who would’ve thought)

so far the story is very engaging: my excitement skyrocketed as soon as the first 10 people got introduced in episode 1 with name cards and titles and all. ahhhhhhhh, finally some good overload of my brain. what’s a good crdrama without you having to figure out who is who for 5 episodes straight.

what’s obvious very quickly is that this screams jacky chan. i knew he’s the director in advance but i think i could have come to that conclusion just by watching the series. to some degree it elevates the story by having this modern detective vibe, allowing more quick and exiting fighting scenes and giving leeway for characters to behave more freely in terms of etiquette and posture (the way Fu Meng Bo as Sui Zhou moves being the most obvious example).

on the other hand i am still struggling with the editing, the transition between the scenes being my biggest grief. so far there’s no natural flow to the shots, often scenes get tacked onto each other so that it makes sense storywise but doesn’t lend it self to good pacing (pretty much everything gets played out in full and there’s never just narration to create a picture). the style is a staccato of scenes which then weirdly get slowed down for what are supposed to be emotional highlights, which so far only focused on side characters so the weight that is lent to them is questionable e.g. the couple dying side by side: they were an important part of solving the case but i had really no emotional connection to them whatsover and didn’t really need the series to slow down that much as they also didn’t offer much character development to the main characters besides Tang Fan’s merciful heart and practical approach to things.

Speaking of Tang Fan and Suizhou: I really enjoy them! They are both layered and fun to watch and the actors really play well off each other. But tbh the series enters a bit of queer baiting territory for me. So far its very strongly hinted that there will be female love interests involved in the story so all the romantically coded moments didn’t feel very honest to me and just like fan service. If they already decided to go bromance I’d love them to do just that and not try and make it seem more than it is if the story directly negates any feelings they might have for each other in the novel.

It also lends itself to comedy but I find it hard to believe that men of their positions would be sooooo oblivious to how difficult and dangerous interactions with the court are.  There’s a tiny disbalance between how all other characters act faced with authority and they do, while there’s no narrative reason for it and just adds some comedy.

In regards to other characters: The empress dowager and consort wan are very delicious female characters. they are seasoned, intelligent and have their own goals to achieve. so far it is still up in the open if either one of them is an antagonist or simply playing the court games as everyone else. wang zhi is fabulously complicated and i was very happy that he doesn’t work in opposition with our main characters but walks between all sides to achieve his goals. really enjoy the complexity of him, however i don’t include him in the ship since it is established that he can be cruel beyond reason so that’s a no from me. i am also always happy to have a eunuch as a main character because there are just so much more interesting power struggles at play. 

pei huai is my secret favourite at the moment: chaotically competent with a flair for the dramatic is someone right up my ally. as for other female characters: i am sorry to say that i am super underwhelmed. i hope aha isn’t going to appear any more because her character is just pure nonsense. we got told the whole backstory of the prostitute (i am sorry, i forgot her name - first 5 episodes rule) but while it explained the reason for her actions it didn’t give me the emotional depth that was needed. i was very much annoyed at her and surprised at the lack of competence for someone who had worked as a prostitute which requires very high social skills and was the daughter of a merchant, so had to have enjoyed some sort of education. it just felt very underdeveloped and she came and went as was needed for the story - which would be fine, but then there’s no need for a tragic slo-mo death with violins playing in the background.

speaking of violins: it is a tragedy that a series with as much money doesn’t use real recordings - i know that that’s my petpeeve but please: nothing is less emotional than an artificially produced violin sound.

now: the brilliant exception is dong’er. i love her A LOT. she is intelligent and brave and has a good amount of comedic timing and wit. her character seems to be well-rounded and well crafted. i am enjoying her very much and am super happy that she’s now the baby of the dyfunctional sui zhou/tang fan household that holds all the brain cells.

overall the cases are super fun, i like the degree of intricacy that leaves room to mystery and character development and i am always a sucker for a show that features a whole working city and also food shots. the whole city comes across as very organic and lends itself as a fantastic playground for a detective series.

i was surprised by the found family trope coming into play, but it is one of my favourites so I am absolutely here for it.

sadly the colour scheme is very dark and brownish so this series will be the worst to gif.

The english title is also all kinds of fantastically absurd and i always misread it as “the sloth of ming dynasty” which i think gives the accurate picture of a fully fed tang fan and dong’er laying lazily around while suizhou exasperatedly stands over them in an apron.

a thank you to @stebeee and @florbexter for getting me into this series, i will definitely watch on