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#i know they probably will bc it’s mnet
hariboz · 5 months
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mnet bringing kingdom back later this year….oh god please don’t involve the jebis, they’re gonna suffer SO much and their schedules are already so packed please don’t drag them there
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lesbiancarat · 2 years
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i found out bjoo from xeno-t/toppdogg is on peak time and I'm kind of tempted to watch it but the fact that it's another idol survival program for "failed" idols is giving me flashbacks to the unit and idk if i can put myself through that again 🧍‍♀️
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chaesparklez · 6 months
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ZB1 as Boyfriends (Hyung Line)
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content: fluff, some smut, gender neutral descriptions. minors dni
Jiwoong
♥ spontaneous and passionate
♥ “hey babe do you wanna fly out to thailand this weekend?”
♥ physical touch! all the physical touch!! would constantly be holding hands, hugging, kissing his partner just to let them know he’s there (and just bc he can)
♥ the type to easily come to a resolution on problems due to his laidback and mature personality
♥ would want someone he can have fun with
♥ so i can see his dates being rlly fun and engaging
♥ cooking classes, lots of outdoorsy stuff, trips to cute lil towns around gyeonggi-do
♥ the quietly reliable type
♥ opening jars, bringing his partner comfy shoes when their feet hurt at the end of the day, little gestures here and there to make their life a lil easier
♥ anddd his sex life would always be dynamic and fun like the rest of the relationship
♥ so raw and passionate
♥ absolutely a dom
♥ nothing gets him off more than the view of his partner whining in pleasure underneath him. teary eyes, cheeks flushed, begging for more
♥ would know exactly how to drive his partner crazy and learn about their habits + desires to attune their sex life to be perfect
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Hanbin
♥ oh boy
♥ it’s no secret that this boy is the embodiment of soft!bf energy
♥ a classic romantic
♥ handwritten notes, flowers, good morning texts, thoughtful gifts curated to his partner’s interests
♥ would constantly text his partner with cute lil updates of his day
♥ ‘hi my darling! i’m eating sushi while thinking of you. you love sushi right? let’s get some together next time <3’
♥ would want to be there for his partner in every way possible and show his support for whatever they’re pursuing
♥ his attentive and sensitive personality would mean he’d deal with his partner being upset with so much gentility
♥ (if they’d even have a reason to be upset in the first place haha)
♥ probably the type to go way overboard trying to make up after a fight
♥ we’re talking bouquets of roses, 1000 paper cranes, showers of hugs and kisses
♥ i could see him expressing his own issues maturely and in such a gentle way that his partner couldn’t even get upset
♥ would be willing to accommodate his partner in every sense of the word
♥ open minded and willing to match them in date ideas, what they want in the bedroom, etc
♥ speaking of the bedroom
♥ once again just a green flag all around. so gentle, so caring, so attuned to his partner’s mood and desires
♥ sex is an extension of the relationship for him. wouldn’t have sex with someone he cant connect with on a deeper level
♥ the type to make love not just have sex
♥ body worship, praise, interlocking fingers while going down on his partner
♥ king of aftercare!!!!
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Hao
♥ now this is a good one
♥ hao is shy yet naturally social and has a warm personality which makes for a great partner as he’d always be surprising them with his hidden charms
♥ loves to feel desired!!
♥ would probably love the chase more than anything else and just the feeling of someone wanting him
♥ would want daily compliments from his partner and lots of sweet words of validation
♥ whispered words of love before they fall asleep at night (he’d be too shy to do this otherwise)
♥ physical touch for this one too. all the kisses, cuddles, shows of pda
♥ despite his inward-being nature, he has quite a sensual side to him once again adding to the fun of dating him
♥ a cunning fox
♥ would make cute little flirty comments that’d get his partner’s heart beating like crazy while acting innocent the whole time
♥ his cute + sexy charms would overall make for a dynamic and interesting boyfriend experience from him
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Matthew
♥ so loverboy coded!!
♥ his mnet+ messages say it all
♥ the type to send long ass paragraphs telling his partner everything he loves about them
♥ would also use words of affirmation daily to express his love
♥ cute dates! getting pancakes, going to an amusement park, finding cool restaurants together
♥ would love just being in bed together having a long cuddle session
♥ holding eachother close, tracing circles on his partner’s palm and kissing them softly
♥ has the duality thing down to a t.
♥ would be so cuddly and adorable
♥ whilst also having a manlier side to him when he wants to show it
♥ think sweeping his partner off their feet like it’s nothing and kissing them with the sweetest smile on his face
♥ defo has a darker side to him too
♥ late night conversations, eye contact, that dazzling smile of his, one thing leading to another
♥ next thing you know he’s got them straddling him having a hot make out session
♥ we already KNOW he’d love being called oppa in bed
♥ (daddy kink daddy kink)
♥ i can see him enjoying using his strength in the bedroom
♥ holding his partner against a wall, ripping clothes off, manhandling
♥ but then once it’s over you have a cuddly teddy bear on your hands
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Taerae
♥ so shy and sweet
♥ i don’t see him having dated a lot so i think he’d have a very earnest approach to love
♥ “can i hold your hand?”
♥ clingy and adorable like a puppy
♥ his love for music would absolutely play a big part in his way of loving
♥ epitome of the dreamy band bf
♥ writing songs about them, playing his guitar singing all their favourite songs for them
♥ hell, i could even see him confessing through singing a song for them
♥ “this next song is for a very very special person…”
♥ being a level-headed and logical person i think he’d be very rational in a relationship
♥ would give realistic advice, wouldn’t entertain highly theoretical scenarios
♥ “would you still love me if i were a worm?”
♥ “don’t ask weird questions”
♥ possibly leading to some disagreements if his partner is more sentimental ijbol
♥ but a big hug and a flash of those dimples would dispel any tension instantly
♥ taerae has a manly side to him that could lead to a surprising confidence around his partner once he gets comfortable
♥ intense eye contact making them all nervous, pulling them in close and ruffling their hair
♥ would love leaving and receiving hickeys
♥ can see him loving a partner that can take the lead in the bedroom
♥ whimpering subby sub boy
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let me know if yall want more posts like this! currently thinking on writing a more detailed post on what hyung line is like in bed… 👀
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dearlexies · 2 months
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let's just have a honest conversation now.
why y'all like enhypen? it's the music, the choreographies? the members? think about it for one minute, just one minute. what made you like them? if it's one of the above great! so you like them, and want to see them doing great, breaking records, being recognized worldwide etc. And i have to tell you, this won't happen if you do nothing. Do you guys understand that other fandoms are getting together just to stop us from winning the votations??? There are people spamming yt comments with emojis to freeze views, we were in the leading idolchamp all the time and then other fandoms got together and started spreading rumors and lies about enhypen, now they're laughing at us. If this doesn't make you sad or mad I'm sorry but you aren't really an engene you just here for the visuals or like to listen to the group and call them the "future of kpop" "4th gen leaders" when it's convenient for your ego and pride. Romance: Untold, has the potential to be their biggest comeback but we are unable to reach the goal of views and likes on YouTube!!! (20M views, and 1,5 likes which is soooo easy to do!!!)
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if you don't want stream and vote then what's your plans to make enhypen successful? bc they won't be recognized if you sit here and do nothing. just bc we won mnte doesn't mean it's over, we still have to get the 20M views on yt, we still have to win the allchart and superstarx votation, and there's the live voting on Thursday (and and if it is the same as today the chances of us winning will be very low) Not to mention that we are already out of the Spotify chart and if we keep it that way we won't re-enter.
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ENGENEs there are so many ways to contribute in the success of XO. You just have to pick which way will be easier and convenient to you.
1) Stream the MV (YT);
2) Stream XO in diff. sites (Genie, Melon, Spotify, Apple Music, TikTok etc) you don't even need to listen the music, just create a playlist and let it run
3) Pre-voting for music shows; (mnet plus, allchart and superstar x.)
4) Donations;
5) buying the album; there's a chance for us to enter in second in the billboard hot200!!!
6) Using the song's in tiktok videos; &
7) Share enhypen with friends and family
we need to be a better fan base, we need to start to be greedy for enha achievements this era, if we can't continue to thrive and strive to make them better after 4 years, I don't really know what to say anymore. We need to stop saying "we'll do better next time" and can't even reach the mv goal for the first day. the 'next time' you are talking about should be this, please know your priority.
Stream harder now! Go watch the mv! Vote on the allchart and superstarx!
don't wait for miracles that won't probably happen. core and dedicated fanbase was always a key to success.
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bp-zb1fics · 1 year
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hi! i love how you write bp trainee!reader fics and i was like ‘omg imagine jay x g group trainee!reader’ so i came here to request something. i wanted to request jay chang confessing to g group!reader during the boys planet finale, or something a long the lines of that. i wanted to see your take on how he would confess to someone, you can always switch up the plot or even ignore this ask if you don’t want to write it! <3
If this was a movie
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pairing: jay x g group reader
genre: canon, fluff
tw/tags: lots of pining, confessions, a kiss or two, some swears, jay kinda dramatic and very in denial, kamden, matthew, ricky best wingmen, a lil hui vs jay action but not really 
wc: 1731
summary: it’s the sleepover night before the finale and jay has something to tell you.
a/n Hi! First of all thank you so much for this lovely request, it was an utter pleasure to write and I really enjoyed it and I hope you will too! I'm always a sucker for canon fics because it's so fun to take the show we all know and love and hate sometimes bc mnet kinda shady and write about it. I've lifted lines directly from the sleepover segment from episode 12, just be citing my sources. I definitely would have included reader/ mc/ y/n's pov but ended up keeping it to jay's pov for some reason, idk maybe it's like writer brain. If anyone wants a "your pov" version, do let me know~ that would be a fun part 2
Check my pinned for more fics~
Italics mean it’s spoken in English.
Jay tips his head back and exaggerates his cringe, laughing along with everyone at Gunwook stealing Junhyeon’s aegyo. Only he can’t help but let his eyes linger back to you giggling quietly from where you’re leaning against Hoetaek, the elder playing with your hair. 
And even if he knows that Hoetaek is a little more familiar with the former Cube trainees like you and Matthew and Sung Hanbin, he can’t help but feel the smallest twinge of jealousy. He wanted to be close to you like that, to mess with your hair until you pout at him and he can’t help but-
“By all means, keep staring, we might as well get a neon sign that says I LIKE YOU and put it on your head.”
Kamden mumbles from beside him, effectively snapping him out of his maladaptive daydreaming. 
“Oh my god dude, shut up.”
He hisses, still keeping one eye on you as you lean into Hoetaek’s touch. Think positive, Jay. Even if you're also a fellow English speaker, at least you’re far away enough that you probably won’t overhear them. Ricky snickers from his other side.
“You’re so subtle, man.”
He levels them a look. It’s their last night, can’t he get a break?
“It’s our last night Jay, you know, you should tell them.”
Apparently not. 
He looks up and Kamden manages to look even more unimpressed than he usually does, head tilting a little more than 45° for emphasis.
“Nah, it’s cool, besides, they’re definitely not into me.”
Jay deflects, ignoring the sinking feeling that begins to take hold. 
“You don’t know that.”
“I’m pretty sure I do.”
“Just try.”
“You’re being very persistent today, Kam, I dunno, it’s kinda sus.”
Before Kamden can fire back, the whole conversation about memorable first impressions turns around and bites Jay in the ass because the universe loves messing with him.
“So who was your best first impression, Jay-ah?” 
Suddenly everyone’s looking at him expectantly. Kamden and Ricky look like they already know and Jay knows that they know that the answer sitting at the tip of his tongue is just across the room, Hoetaek’s arm around their shoulder. Still, Jay hesitates.
He’s had a crush on you ever since the Star Level test. You had immediately caught his attention walking in. Sure, there were perfect visuals like Jiwoong and Hanbin but you were the most attractive person he’s ever seen. And you were talented, Jay could swear your performance was one of the best but Kamden’s convinced that he’s just biased.
But even though you’re both from G-group, you’ve always ended up in different teams, leaving Jay with not that many opportunities to talk with you. When he does end up around you, he just can’t, defaulting to his usual over the top expressions for laughs. While he’s always thought of himself as a confident person, he just finds himself fumbling around you. It doesn’t help that you seem to stick to Hoetaek or Sung Hanbin or one of your team members. You’re friendly with each other, sure, but nothing more than that. 
Right, back to the question.
“The person I remember the most is Yujin.”
He immediately feels the collective disappointment that emanates from his corner of the room as the rest of the trainees react, Matthew even sitting up to hit him with some bombastic side-eye. He pretends he doesn’t hear Kamden sighs, doing an impression of Yujin which looks more like a possession honestly. The others laugh. Jongwoo’s comment is the crutch he needs to limp away as he holds Yujin in check as competition.
Of course, it wouldn’t be that easy.
“For me, as soon as I heard Jay sing, I felt like I was in trouble.” 
Hoetaek speaks up and Jay forces himself into another exaggerated look of surprise and shoves down the ugly feeling that jumps out at the way you hug one of Hoetaek’s arms. 
“Your competitor?” One of them jokes.
Not just in singing, Jay thinks.
“But you did watch Love Me Right, hyung?” Jongwoo asks. Jay really wants this conversation to move on.
“It was so hard to watch Love Me Right.” He watches as Hoetaek shifts so that you can lean more comfortably.
“That’s not the only thing that’s hard to watch right now.” Ricky breathes out. Now Kamden and Matthew are snickering.
Just smile, Jay. 
“Honestly, I wanted to give up when I saw you, hyung.” He manages to grit out without giving himself away, hopefully. 
Everyone laughs and Jay desperately sends a prayer to the universe to let his pain end. Ironically, it’s Kamden and Matthew who come to his rescue.
“Actually, I’m curious about something. Did I give off an American vibe?”
The conversation swerves towards Matthew’s imitation of Kamden, the apparently routine mispronunciation of Jiwoong’s name and Kamden’s impressive first impression of Ricky’s hair.
By the time they move on to Keita’s first meeting with Zhang Hao, Jay thinks he’s in the clear.
He's not.
Kamden proceeds to smack his arm and he meets eyes with Matthew whose usual bright smile was beginning to border on shit-eating grin territory.
“If you didn’t notice, they’ve been looking at you the whole time we were talking.” Kamden says lowly, Matthew nodding in agreement.
“Nah, you’re capping.”
“No, for real, Kam and I were literally right here giving some top-tier content and all they could see was you.” Matthew insisted.
“That doesn’t mean anything.”
“It definitely means something.” Ricky counters because he was apparently listening in on them the whole time while everyone else watched Jiwoong wax poetry over Hao’s violin playing. Jay shakes his head.
“It really doesn’t.”
Kamden looks like he wants to jump on him and start shaking some sense in. Matthew sighs. Ricky just shrugs and lies back down.
“Ah well, we’ll have to see then. I didn’t let Kam slander my hair and my catchphrase for nothing.”
After having to spectate the absolute trainwreck of awkwardness that is Zhang Hao and Kum Junhyeon, there’s the slightest chill that goes down Jay’s spine that he ignores, figuring it must be the weather.
It was definitely not the weather. He should have run while he still had a chance.
“Actually, there’s another pair I want to see.” Matthew speaks up. Suddenly he feels Kamden and Ricky both watching him like hawks as if he’s going to bolt any second now.
After Matthew names you and him, Jay actually wants to bolt. Kamden and Ricky are extremely helpful in explaining to the others the minimal interactions you two have had as the “least close trainees in G-group.” You look like a deer in headlights as Hoetaek gently shoves you towards the middle of the room, whispering something to you before he goes back to his spot. 
“Wah they’re both so red.” Jay becomes acutely aware of how much his cheeks are burning as he sits across you. You don’t seem to be any better, making eye contact before looking literally anywhere else.
Well, might as well get over it so he can go back and die of embarrassment.
“Uh, the first time I saw you was during the Star Level test. I thought you were very talented.”
Damn, when did Korean become so hard? Maybe it was the way your hands were holding his, can you feel how fast his pulse is racing? Okay Jay, you can do this, just speedrun it.
“And I really liked the song you performed, it really fit your voice. Your stage outfit was also very pr- very noticeable, it made you stand out. And I really wanted to get to know you more but we were in different groups all the time which really sucked and you don’t know how many times I wished you chose Home so we could perform together or the Star Creators would put us both in Over me and I understand, you’re really perfect for the concepts of your songs and it’s crazy how much I like you, seriously so crazy.”
Pin-drop silence. Three things, in order, that Jay realises.
Speedrunning this might not have been the best idea.
Switching to English midway through the conversation is a skill that he didn’t know he was capable of considering his level of Korean would definitely be more byelingual than actual, intelligent multilingual like Matthew.
He might have confessed his feelings to you. No actually, he did. Fuck, now would be a great time to get on the next plane and fly off to the States and cry to Beomhan for a month. Forget debuting, he’d settle for a nice normal life without the evil editing and the screen time robbing and the utter stress of eliminations.
But before Jay can actually bolt, you speak up.
“Uh- uhm…” You look so unsure that it freezes him there, seated in front of you, holding your hands like it’s his last lifeline.
“I really like you too.”
Everyone gasps and begins murmuring quietly.
“Wait, my English is bad, what are they saying?”
“Finally, they’ve confessed, I knew it.”
“Wait who confessed?”
“That was like an American romance movie, wow.”
Then the clapping starts. Jay tears his eyes away from you for one second to look at Kamden in utter disbelief. His co-conspirators don’t miss a beat.
“Congratulations, you finally did it! Thank fuck.”
“Be happy together, you two!”
And because Ricky apparently wasn’t satisfied with the slander he had put himself through.
“Now kiss.”
Which turned into a chant because even the trainees who didn’t speak English fluently knew what they were talking about. Someone even helpfully throws a blanket over Yujin to protect his eyes.
Jay turns back and finds you giggling. While it looks like embarrassment, now he could feel the way your fingers interlocked with his, your eyes flitting to his lips. The chanting becomes background noise as he leans in, pressing his lips against yours firmly.
Fireworks explode in the background as you pull away.
Everyone applauds with the occasional whistling, oohing as Jay tugs you to sit between his legs, Ricky graciously scooting over to make space.
Kamden claps him on the back and Matthew flashes both of you a thumbs up.
God, he loves hates these guys.
As the conversation settles back down and everyone decides to actually sleep, you sneak another kiss before cuddling up to his side.
Jay smiles. Maybe this is a movie.
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jayflrt · 10 months
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hi im back i swear i could talk ab iland for hours fr ...
smth i wanna talk ab is their friendships on the show and moments that i think ab A LOTTT
- heeseung and jungwon!! i think they grew close very early on esp bc they were in iland together from the start and u could see how sad hee was when jungwon almost got emiminated. like boy was in tears SOBBING when jungwon came back from that dam egg and i felt in that moment u could rlly see how much jungwon meant to him and he couldnt lose him
- JAY AND NIKI like when jay came back to iland and cried that niki didnt make it 😭 they were THAT DUO™️ in the ground stressing out teaching everyone fire. i think they were the perfecr pair to lead bc they both had an insane amount of passion and determination like niki was one of the only ones that understood why jay wanted them to keep practicing and not fall behind bc they both knew how much was on the line. they were also on the same team multiple times which caused them to grow close and the fact that jay was one of the ones who could speak japanese so niki definitely clung onto him and jay would help him out a lot :')
- SUNOO AND JAEBEOM. one of the most purest friendships on the show i swear. they experienced ground and iland together and in the behind cams THEY LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE GOSSIPING ALL THE TIME IT WAS SO CUTE. and the fact that sunoo used one of his calls to call jaebeom omg 😭 theyre probably still friends til this day since sunoo cherishes all of his friendships i rlly need them to vlog tgth or smth i miss them sm
- sunoo and taki 😭 when sunoo said he wanted taki as a real little brother I SOBBED. i think another anon talked ab them so i wont get into it much but im so happy theyre still close and we see them interact a lot
- enha 02z omg. iland is where jakehoon rlly took off and it was so endearing to witness their friendship blossom on the show. and jayhoon ☹️☹️☹️ i love every jay duo in enha but jayhoon (and heejay) takes the cake for me. when sunghoon worried more about taking jays place during the dance unit over winning it showed how much their friendship means to him. and when jay says the iconic line "my one and only unit" LIKE THEY ENTERED ILAND TOGETHER AND DEBUTED TOGETHER IT CANT BE MORE PERFECT THAN THAT. and during pt. 2 i loved how in the behind cams we got to see all 3 of them get closer and become the iconic 02z trio we know and love today (im just so happy they all got to debut together it was seriously fate)
- jay and k. so yes, k was really bad on the show and his competitiveness got the best of him. it was sad to watch how he treated other ppl sometimes and i'll say hes grown from it and is in &team now and takes care of the members well. (i watched &audition and his character development was crazy so good for him) but in iland u can tell how much jay really values k as an older brother. jay was one of the older contestants so he probably felt like he had to shoulder a lot and be a leader but when k is around i feel like he got to relax a little more yk? and as we know enha and esp jay dont really have many friends outside of the group (besides sunoo) and im glad theyre still very close til this day.
sorry this was so long u fr opened the floodgates for me skdjs
HELLO !! feel free to 🤝 i love talking about iland (i am hyperfixated)
omg yes there were so many cute friendships that i wish mnet covered more !! :( jungwon and heeseung were so meant to be friends like 🥹🥹 omg in the ghost episode when jungwon slept in heeseung's bed was the first time i realized that he rlly lets himself be a kid around hee 🥰 NO YEAH MY HEART BROKE THAT EPISODE 😭 heeseung's sobbing actually hurt me holy shit i hate mnet for what they put those boys through
omg i felt so sad when jay went up without riki and started crying into k's shoulder 😭 ALSO WHEN JAY DID HIS MASSAGES FOR EVERYONE LOLL i definitely feel like jay jake riki and sunoo (and daniel) grew a lot closer in ground but i was so soft for jayki:') 💘💘 OMG YES SUNOO AND JAEBEOM WERE SO CUTE i just feel like they matched each other's energy so well !! i wish iland showed more interactions because jaebeom clearly had gotten close with more ilanders (sunghoon nominating him for parts, them using sunoo's call to call jaebeom) but i think mnet just focused on the drama + training + a few select friendships
that part where taki was crying on his way to ground and sunoo held his hand and walked him to the building ☹️☹️ they were too cute!!! but yes i remember their pictures together from hanging out n im so happy they're still close 🥰 omg "my one and only unit" changed the trajectory of my life forever like it's been my bio for two years now because of how insane of a hold it has over me 😵‍💫 02z were so so cute :')) part of the reason why i was so sad that ej got eliminated in pt 1 but we got so many cute jaykehoon moments 🥹💖 the entire ghost episode made me ADOREEE them like jake and sunghoon going everywhere together and pranking jay in the bathroom,, then their little dispute "i'll walk you to your room and then we'll walk to mine" "you cant even walk to your room by yourself??" and then jake getting all riled up and saying he could only to run back to sunghoon 😭😭 AND JAY AND JAKE SAYING THEYD SHOWER TOGETHER BC THEY WERE SO SCARED 😭🤚
omg yes jay was so cute around k he let himself be a little brother 🥹🥹 i think he needed that person he could go to and be vulnerable because he tried to put up a strong front a lot of the time and was under so much pressure 🤧 literally cried at the part of him writing all of those letters with his mosquito bitten hands :(( omg yeah i wanna know if enha have more idol friends HAHHA i know heeseung's friends with jeongin, beomgyu, and lim jimin and i know a few members are friends with tnx members OH and shotaro and riki are friends 🥰🥰💖💖
HAHAH no need to apologize i feel insane over iland friendships too 😵
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knize-strachkvas · 2 years
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so i'm not going to watch boys planet bc a) i hate mnet and i don't trust them to treat the boys fairly b) i do not hate myself enough to go through that shit again when i know its just getting worse and worse with each season. that shit is rigged. we know it, mnet knows we know it.
BUT just the bits and pieces that i see online...oh my fucking god that show is so unserious and just so fucking stupid and they don't even bother to hide it anymore?
1. dividing the trainees into koreans (mnets favourites) and the rest of not-that-interesting trainees that are not fortunate enough to be koreans is just bullshit. like dividing them before the show aired during the trainee reveal? weird, but okay i guess. but not letting them perform together for the introduction performance and putting them according to their nationalities? what the actual fuck mnet. tell me one good reason why all nine.i members that are stuck there couldn't perform together when they are already debuted team? jiho and seowon performed as duo and winnie was put with another thai trainee? that was just unnecessary.
2. mnets pushing the narrative that the koreans trainees need to be better then the rest bc this is kpop and koreans just need to be the best in everything just probably creates unnecessary tension between the trainees. no mater how u edit the performances to make the korean trainees look way better and edit out the foreigners with actual talent, it will just crumble down bc mnets editing is shit and it just creates drama where i want just good vibes (yes this is mnet i know i will not get good vibes its not my first rodeo....i watched ioi's season i know shit or two)
3. jiwoong. thats it thats the tweet...no okay. honestly i got worried for jiwoong when he was announced as a contestant bc mnets is shit but worse, mnet is homophobic shit and hell i don't trust them to treat jiwoong right. for now, it seems like they are just using jiwoong for views. jiwoong is brave for saying out loud right at the beginning that he acted in bl drama and didn't try to push it aside. also everybody else playing their parts and being in love with him is just amusing and i hope they are enjoying it. jiwoong is collecting men everywhere he goes and honestly, good for him.
4. hui (and any other contestant that is in active group tbh) like im so fucking confused what the fuck is cube doing. we all know that cue is shit and is not good in dealing with crisis situation but ?!?! this one is stupid even by their standards. hui literary produced songs for mnets little shitshows before. he was a mentor for people who are now going to mentor him. that's just laughable?? hui doesn't deserve any of this. he is way too old for this shit. and in any mean i mean he is too old to be an active idol. hell no. but the rest of the trainees are more than 10 years younger. u can't want him to take care of a bunch of kids that should be in school and not in this circus. also, i dont even want to imagine how much it would have an impact on pentagon as a group - or any group in general. if a trainee that is already a member of an active group (so pentagon, nine.i, up10tion (what the fuck, why), ciipher etc) what the groups would do? would they have the same contract as x1 should have? bein half and half? i can imagine that could go as smoothly as any other mnets ambitious (stupid) plan. the boys would be overworked in no time and the time management? yeah, hell no. and yes it kinda worked with victon but swoo was back way sooner then they planned, or with nuest (good for them). on the other hand, it definitely didn't worked for anybody else with was mostly the companies fault by not taking the chance properly and mismanaging them.
5. the evil editing. we all know mnet is really good at evil editing but every damn year there are people believing it. like why????? mnet has its favourite and its so obvious. its actually so fucking painful to watch. it was obvious even just from the teasers. i understand that that's the point of the show. the more drama the more views for mnet. bad publicity is still a publicity :)
okay im done now. in conclusion, dont vote for a contestant that is a member of an active group (stan the group instead) and for the love of god and everything holy please dont trust mnet :)
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itsbeeble · 1 year
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Thank you for tagging me @winterchimez
Rules: Pick 10 of your biases (or as many biases as you have and fill in the rest of the spots with idols you like) and number them 1-10. Then, answer the questions below! Try not to look at the questions before you make your list!
Kim Hongjoong (ATEEZ)
Lee Jihoon (Seventeen)
Kim Sunwoo (The Boyz)
Choi Minho (SHINee)
Bang Chan (Stray Kids)
Yang Jungwon (Enhypen)
Nakamoto Yuta (NCT 127)
Ten (WayV)
Kim Woosung (The Rose)
Kang Taehyun (TXT)
questions under the cut!
Between 7 & 5, who did you bias first?
I biased Yuta first. My friend introduced me to NCT and I was drawn to Yuta SOOOOO fast. I found SKZ a bit later and was drawn to Chan.
Between 2 & 6, who are you more attached to?
Jihoon for sure. I fell in love with Seventeen almost as soon as I found them, and Jihoon became my bias from the first time I listened to HIT. I lowkey lean on Jihoon as my emotional support kpop idol. He's such a comforting person and i love him so much. (Ily Jungwon i promise)
If you were to spend a day with 3 or 1, who would you choose and what would you do?
Ohhhh this is tough bc I love them so much. I think I would choose Hongjoong though. He's a very calming person and I think I would be able to let myself let loose a bit more. Plus I think there would be slightly less of a language barrier for us. As far as what we would do...Idk. Lowkey I think he would love to hang out at a Barnes & Noble so I would probably drag him there, grab a coffee, and walk around for a bit even if neither of us get anything.
What is your favorite physical feature about 9?
I love everything about his face tbh. But if I had to choose one feature I would go with his eyes. I could get LOST in those eyes fr.
What is your favorite part of 6's personality?
Jungwon is just a silly goofy guy i love him so much. Like he seems like such a fun person to hang out with even if we don't do anything.
If you were to tell 8 anything you wanted, what would you tell them?
Ten my love 🩵. I would love to tell him thank you. Before ATEEZ, before Seventeen, Ten was the original idol that I found comfort in. When I was originally getting into kpop, I was in a bad mental spot (even if I didn't show it a lot). Finding Ten, listening to him talk or sing, watching him dance, he was just such a comfort to me and he still is. So I just want to be able to tell him thank you for helping me, even if he doesn't know it.
Between 1 and 2, whose closet would you raid?
Hongjoong. That's it. That's all I have to say.
What is a style you want to see 3 try?
Dark academia/royal style. He looked SCRUMPTIOUS during Kingdom (FUCK MNET), specifically during O Sole Mio. I want to see more of that. Like now. Desperately.
Between 5 and 4 who are you closer to in height?
Chan. I think I'm like 2 inches shorter than him and I'm pretty sure Minho is almost 6'0
Between 10 and 9, whose music do you like the best?
Mmm this is tough. I think I'm gonna go with Woosung tho. I love The Rose, love their music, their instrumentals. I love Woosung's solo music as well. So yuh.
~
Tagging: @taekurai @juyeonszn @leejihoonownsmyheart and anyone else who would like to do this (also sorry if yall were already tagged hjdfiafhu)
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fullmoonandstar · 2 years
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who's the australian dude?
Glad you asked XD And I will take this chance to also bring this full circle and tell you why you will probably see or at least hear him in Deadpool 3.
(This is about that post)
So, out of all my celebrity crushes, he is both, the most realistic and the most unrealistic at the same time. Like, personality-wise I think we would be a good match but he is also a kpop idol lol
So Chan in three photos:
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(Why is this the only photo of him in the studio that I found???)
He is a producer, songwriter, and singer. I know, people think kpop is never written by the performer but he made songs live on stream several times, if you are interested you can watch episode 158 of Chan's room for example. (he gets a phone call around 55 mins into the stream with a request from one of his group members XD The subtitles are a bit weird in some parts but in general okay^^)
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Already mentioned Chan's room. It's his weekly live stream (usually on Sunday) where he listens to music and talks to the fans for an hours or so. In this gif it's a subset of episodes that I call Chan's actual room lol
Once someone asked for advice on period cramps on stream and he did not embarrass himself with his answer which puts him in like the top 10% of people without a uterus that I know. (Maybe I'm pessimistic but I feel like this half of the reproductive parts is not very well understood by those who don't have them^^;;;;;)
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🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️
Bonus:
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90% of the time his hair is straightened, but he actually has curly hair. (relevant bc most of my celebrity crushes have curly / wavy hair lol) This was his Halloween stream from last year and I adore the curly hair. I think I have all the gifs of every moment that was caught on camera where his hair is not straightened.
So yeah it's Bang Chan (Or Christopher Bang). Now, for the one person that is asking themselves why would he be in Deadpool? The short answer is bc he and Ryan are buddies and Chan loves Deadpool. Now how do they even know each other in the first place? This is an interesting story.
In Kingdom, 6 male Idol Groups prepared performances for a different theme every week. Every round was followed by a vote that determined the ranking and some manoir details of the show. To this day, I have not understood how the voting system worked even though they explained it on the show like every episode lol
In Kingdom, 6 male Idol Groups prepared performances for a different theme every week. Every round was followed by a vote that determined the ranking and some manoir details of the show. To this day, I have not understood how the voting system worked even though they explained it on the show like every episode lol
One of the themes was "no limit" basically everything goes. They could collab with anyone, remix songs, or some third thing (I know nothing about music) but they could do basically anything they wanted.
Stray Kids have a song called God's Menu which was their first real break in 2020 and propelled them to the next level of popularity. Now, there is this Black Pink song called Ddu Ddu Ddu. Both songs have a part in the chorus that goes "du du du" but at different rhythms and they thought "wouldn't it be funny to make a mash-up?". Black Pink is well know and their songs are popular so why. They made the mash up and it's amazing. This performance is the reason I became a fan btw. I watched Kingdom for one of the other groups that competed - Ateez - but this mash-up is so good it put Stray Kids on my radar.
This performance was very Deadpool-inspired, from the hand draw map to the outfits.
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(Mnet took down the original performance video for some reason but you can see it here)
Quick side note: When Chan is talking here, he is talking in English, but because this was Korean tv they used these cards to write subtitles on. however, the first one says something different. It says "JYP 바보 (JYP is an Idiot)" Park Jin-young (JYP) is their boss and founder of their record label they work for lol (I think he resigned as CEO but is still involved with the company)
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After the performance, Chan took one of probs, a Deadpool mask, and appeared with it on hos weekly live stream.
Another side note: The live stream is called Chan's room but this is really some sort of play on his name bc "room" in Korean is bang and it's written the same way as his family name. (This doesn't mean that his family name means room bc family names in Korea are almost always based on Chinese symbols and the name is just the phonetic version of that)
The performance doesn’t go unnoticed, Ryan post something under a tweet about it. Some interaction followed - I’m not on twitter so idk what exactly happened here but yeah, - this was the beginning of their bromance. Chan send Ryan a signed album and Ryan sent chan a bottle of (what liquor is he selling?) which is funny bc Chan doesn't drink so it's just there on his desk. In a later stream he opened the bottle and sniffed it. You can imagine the reaction, I don't have to tell you XD Chan also interviewed Ryan when Free Guy was released.
Given that Ryan reblogged a post with Chan gifs recently leads me to think they are still bros and if the opportunity arises they would totally do something together.
This is the reason why so many people, including myself, are convinced the Stray Kids will be on the soundtrack for Deadpool and I wouldn't be surprised if they even have some cameo in the movie in one way or another. It could even just be in some reference only fan will get or one of their songs plays in the background. There are lots of possibilities
One last thing. Maybe you saw the screenshot of Chan from their performance on Kingdom and thought "Man, he don't look like Deadpool." And yes he doesn't. Because Chan wasn't Deadpool. He was.
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This is Stray Kids' other Australian dude, Felix. (If you watched the performance, yes, that is his actual voice.) He even got the swords <3
(Did this sit in my drafts for two months? Yes, it did.)
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boysplanetrecaps · 1 year
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on scheming, popularity, confidence, and skill -- responding to a cool ask!
I got a great ask from someone and I wanted to publish it, but it would be a spoiler to anyone who hasn't seen ep9, or is behind on who has or hasn't been eliminated, so I'm putting it here behind a read more. They're responding to my theory as to why a certain trainees was kicked out of Over Me and make some good points! It's all behind the read more.
fallindomino asked:
heyy just read your ep 9 post and i found what you said abt Keita getting kicked out of over me really interesting, both bc he’s my one pick lol but also bc i both agree and disagree. i think he’s closer with the other trainees than mnet seemingly wants viewers to think, in dance practice behind the scenes vids and other content that not everyone who watches the show probably watches you can see other contestants being more physically affectionate with him and vice versa. this confuses me solely bc he’s the japanese trainee with the best shot at making it into the final line-up, and you’d think mnet wants at least one to keep up the perception of this show producing a “global” boy group. then again, trying to understand what mnet is thinking is a fruitless endeavor in itself.
I see what you mean about Keita certainly having friends among the trainees -- I think that a lot of the trainees feel close to him, especially the Japanese trainees, I'd guess. But remember when Park Gunwook shook Keita's hand at the ep8 ranking ceremony? He shook his hand warmly, with a huge smile on his face, but he didn't HUG him. Now maybe Gunwook just isn't a hugger, but still. I just think Keita isn't quite as "in" with the cool kids clique as he could be. Everyone likes and respects him but I don't sense that bond, that "stay up all night talking, crying on each other's shoulders, telling each other stuff you've never told anyone before" kind of bond. But maybe I'm wrong! I should watch some more of the behind the scenes content -- let me know if there's a specific video that you think I should check out.
And yeah, you'd think for sure they'd want at least one Japanese trainee, but who knows what goes through MNET's single collective brain cell. It's like searching for meaning in a Pauly Shore movie.
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buttt abt the threat bit i completely agree. i think the other trainees see him as a threat in a way he doesn’t view anyone else at all. i remember you said smth like “Keita sets a high standard even among the other previously debuted idols on this show” in one of ur posts, and i think this is a contributing factor. Keita simply has less to prove. he knows he’s good enough to be in the group, the judges know, the other trainees know, the viewers know, even people who don’t LIKE him know.
this is why he was so completely unafraid to make a super stacked team for Kill this Love even though he definitely wanted the killing part, and in ep 6 when they chose for the second mission, though they don’t show Keita choosing Zoom, in background shots you can see that Krystian, who he kicked out, was simply standing on the bottom row, closest to the walkway, and that is most likely the reason keita kicked him out.
Oh, I love this kind of close analysis! Nice work. I think Krystian was better suited for Limousine anyway so it worked out.
comparing this line of thinking to Ricky, who kicked Jongwoo out of Love Killa because it meant he would be more likely to get the killing part, to Jiwoong who did the exact same thing to ricky two minutes later, and the differences in their thinking become clear.
Aaaannnd we ended up with an underwhelming performance of Love Killa, so thanks, everyone!
this isn’t me hating on any of them ofc, it’s a good strategy. but it’s a strategy that Keita isn’t using, partially because he is literally just that kind, but also because he doesn’t feel that pressure to prove everything he has the way most of the other trainees do.
Totally agree. It's kind of like what I was saying about how Matthew leads from a place of anxiety, while Keita leads from a place of confidence. It doesn't enter Keita's mind to scheme because he knows he has the goods. I think that this might contribute to his comparative lack of super close, emotionally bound friends -- you bond with people who you feel a connection to, and maybe it's hard for people to feel that connection with someone who doesn't seem to experience the same frustrations and difficulties that they do. But again, maybe I'm wrong.
and yeah, considering that there were two yuehuas on over me team as well, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that they made a plan to vote out the members they felt would be the biggest threats to them, position-wise, and any friendships made on the show def pale in comparison to years spent training tgt. i just thought it was rlly interesting cause all last week i was curious to see how ppl ended on their new teams (i did get spoiled lol) and after watching and thinking it over, it makes tons of sense. your recaps are always interesting reads, and i look forward to the performance specific ones !!
Thanks so much! Back atcha, friendo!
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juyomiao · 1 year
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NAURRR I FORGOT TO SCREENSHOT THE NOTIFICATION💔 but tumblr was being saur cute sisbissnks it was like
juyomiao has posted
we noticed they're one if your favorites❤️
or smthn along the lines of that and ACK IT WAS SAUR CUTE PLS JSBKSNSKSKA-
anyways idk if u can answer the first one but it's still cool hshshshs
✩ do you have/ can you give some not-so-spoiler spoilers for o.o? (hahajahs u made me obsessed w this and im not complaining)
★ your mtl biased member in cravity? (just ur preferences, u may put reasoning if u want :] )
✩ fav/recommended tbz songs? (im really planning on stanning they seem fun ajajasjs)
★ *IF* w1 is really pursuing with the greek mythology shit, which god/goddess (there's a possibility) do you think bin is going to be? (and state ur reasons hshs)
omg tumblr being cute (unexpected)
☆ uhhhh idk how to give spoilers without spoiling everything so all i can say is what i alr said : its getting more angsty bc i like being cruel n ruining things 🤭 BUT dw it will have a happy ending and the funny elements of the fic r not going anywhere bc thats still the most important part to me
★ okay omg this is hard wait
disclaimer ofc i love all the members
minhee : he was my bias in x1 too so even when i didnt rlly stan cravity i still considered him my cravity bias lmao hes also the proof i have a 'type' when biasing idols bc . the minhee - younghoon - sunghoon trinity explains a lot abt it
serim : he was the reason i got more interested in cravity bc i was watching a cravity park episode n realized how fine he was so ,, yeah . kind of surprising bc he was one of the two members i didnt rlly know abt before stanning (i knew minhee hyeongjun wonjin n jungmo bc of produce n knew seongmin taeyoung n allen bc ppl talk abt them a lot) but im so insane abt him to the point something i said after seeing one of his pics became an inside joke in my friend group
seongmin : my bbg hes so cute n pretty n soft n i love his voice so much . n lately i've been wanting to eat him too .
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hyeongjun : ofc knew him bc of x1/pdx n already loved him back then but now even more . in the nicest way possible hes insane hes not normal but thats exactly why i love him
this is where it gets more complicated bc i cant rlly rank them ? like probably woobin n then jungmo wonjin n allen more or less on the same level ?? like even i would expect jungmo n wonjin to be higher but . heres a fun fact‼️i watched produce without subtitles ! so i remember little to nothing abt it n had no idea what was going on ⅔ of the time !! bc i used to watch it when they livestreamed it on youtube n then was too lazy to go look for the subbed ep ,, then i got more attached to minhee n hyeongjun bc they were in x1 obviously
that was so long im sorry but u cant give me a perfect opportunity to infodump abt my special interest / hyperfixation n . expect me not to do it
☆ OHHHH OKAY so idk what music u like more so this list might be a bit questionable bc i like everything even noise music . but i'll focus on b-sides !!
walkin in time , only one (obviously , the queen who inspired my fic title) , melting heart , l.o.u , text me back , daydream , espionage , shake you down , scar , salty , goodbye , checkmate , shine shine , insanity , prism , kiss me if you can , hush , kingdom come (i'll never get tired of saying it , tbz were robbed on that bitchass show FUCK MNET) drink it , out of control , nightmares , merry bad ending , hypnotized , russian roulette , one dance , sweet , c.o.d.e , survive the night , levitating , awake , savior
tbz's entire discography is honestly perfect have fun stanning them u wont regret it‼️‼️
★ honestly idk😭😭 when i was younger (n we r talking abt 5yo until 14yo so it was . a while) i was sooo obsessed with greek mythology but my brain just . wiped all that information away😭 so i genuinely dont know
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bomnun · 1 year
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I'm surprised CUBE didn't try and send/force every PTG member to BP. Surely MNET would have loved that to fully sell the PTG is a total flop storyline and to put the final nail in PTG's career. Plus we know "fans" would love pitting all of them against each other. I can't understand Hui's reasoning to go down this route (you can't replicate Nu'est's success with only one member on BP, N sent 4 members and all did well). So thankful for Tumblr, truly a safe space from Twitter's insanity.
yeah, I think cube/mnet tried to convince him he could get a nuēst type boost, but aside from the fact they there weren’t as many members on the show ptg are just so much more popular than they were before the show. it’s all so dumb… I know he was probably forced/threatened but I still don’t know how H agreed to this and I feel both annoyed with him and very bad for him :(
to me it’s almost like cube doesn’t agree with the story mnet puts out anymore either lmao bc if they did they would have quit on them already at this point and not advertise HI WE’RE CUBE WE’RE THE COMPANY OF WELL KNOWN KPOP GROUPS SUCH AS IDLE PENTAGON AND BTOB in a video they had put out in february or march, and the current display on their café with all signed artists. If they were planning on dropping any of them very soon I don’t think they’d put up something like that, lol.
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seokmattchuus · 2 years
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The show is SO rigged! Bc even if they don't manipulate the votes directly they still choose their favorites and give them a storyline that helps them get there while the non-chosen by mnet get burried or only they show us only the bad moments
I don't trust mnet. I bet they're still fucking with the votes. Just because a third party does it, doesn't mean they're doing it properly. Mnet's probably paying them to manipulate it for all we know
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flops · 2 years
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they should put us in charge of conceptualizing these variety shows tbh bc you know i can come up with soso many ideas and concepts for variety shows like the possibilities are endless and even if they wanna have shows with a more competitive edge like we can have that without traumatizing teenagers or literal children!!!!! its not like im 100% against all competition shows, i just haaate the way television manipulates viewers via editing or straight up tempers with the votes (and like b4 anyone thinks that, no, ik this doesnt just apply to korean tv, i mean i got the full scope of tv fakeness from the gntm exposées so its safe to say a lot of television is bullshit and rigged, making me tend more toward variety shows bc those are all sunshine and happiness and theres probably no execs perpetuating drama in those shows. not to say i trust them entirely but i trust them more) anyways sorry i put that whole rant in here my actual proposal for competitive edge could be very simple cover performance competitions, or maybe specifically nugu group competitions in one big show event instead of episodes to give them equal screentime and more or less equal chances in votings AND ALSO i really dont like how there pulling debuted idols out of their groups!! to compete in shows!! sometimes with people YEARS younger than them like ok im sorry idk why im ranting to you abt this bc you already get it but!! my point is we should be the television 👍 you aswell bc youre so right i nthe addition about make up and styling id love to see some of them try fsdgsdg
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anon i think we found your true calling 🙏 i looove your ideas so much !!!! also yeah tv fakeness is real and upsetting like in my country all the reality tv shows are scripted to hell and its so miserable.... also watching this seasons boys planet just makes me so mad bc these trainees are so sweet and taleneted but i cant even enjoy the episodes bc they way mnet edits them is just so.... awful and i have seen past seasons of produce 101 and let me tell you they were manipulating the viewers there too but this time its like mnet is not even trying to be subtle about it like the amount of times they have been exposed abt alternating or grabbing out of context what one of the trainees said just to push some kind of narrative they came up with to make the show more 'dramatic' .... so ugly 😑 peaktime pissed me off too bc they told all those guys to practice this new choreo/song for a few hours amd then the mentors humiliated them for not showing a perfect performance when of course a bunch of strangers who havent practiced/performed together before arent gonna show a perfect performance yet 😭 and we wasted hours on watching this.... god....
anyways sorry for the rant but i get you and more importantly they really should put you in charge as a tv producer 🫵❤️
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sanstropfremir · 2 years
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kai releasing a new solo album but also rumored of an exo and super m comeback. i swear this dude has to enlist soon? not sure how realistic it would be that he participates in them... unless the super m promotions are similar to got the beat and a live stage at mnet... nct mark also supposed to go on tour with dream (?).
he does, i think he needs to go by the end of the year, same with sehun. kai tends to take a lot of time to plan his solos so i can imagine rover has probably been in the works for a while, which likely would have freed up a bit of time for the to pre-film an exo cb and possibly a superm one. they also might be taking him out of superm if they're planning for it to be in the second half of the year. the exo cb is likely to be in the summer so he can probably participate in that, but we'll just have to see bc nobody knows how much of sm's projected plan is actually going to pan out
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outsidereveries · 1 year
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do you think they’ll be rigging the final boys planet lineup? and if yes how many of the trainees?
ooooh there will definetly be rigging!
i mean mnet is favoring the korean public rather than the global one, so i won't be suprised if they'll rig placements all over again! my cards actually showed rigging too!
i'd say half of the global finalists - seok matthew, ricky, keita and of the korean trainess kum junhyeon and i'd personally add yoo seungeon could have rigged placements. i think there might not be global trainees at all.
suprisingly enough i saw zhang hao not debuting but his place won't be rigged (allegedly).
na kamden might debut all of a sudden bc of his quite middle korean vote count in result.
gyuvin might not debut imho but idk if his placement will be rigged. it probably won't?
pentagon's leader might have the 9th place all of a sudden, it won't be suprising, but the chances of this happening are so and so.
i am almost certain that jay won't debut, unless the global fans vote for him.
by that video i saw mnet uploaded, i think they want taerae and both hanbins to debut. this spoiler might be about only the global votes so idk :/
i will say my opinion of possible results if the trainees' audience is the same amount.
i'll be honest that sung hanbin, kim jiwoong, kim taerae and han yujin have stable korean fanbase and they will probably debut. however, taerae lost some of the global vote in the 11th episode, but i assume it's normal since everyone lost some votes at its best.
gyuvin lost large global vote in the 11th episode, so his placement is shaky for debut. if some of the global vote comes back, he will debut.
zhang hao seems to have stable vote however he's in the global category so i geniunely hope for his best, no matter where.
keita on the other hand lost bigger amount of the korean vote, at least by percentage.
ricky has stable audience which in the 11th episode is rare and that is why he's 8th for now because of the trainees's shaky fandom. if the fandom of the rest of the trainees is stable as 11th episode he will debut, but if not, he might rank 13th or so.
matthew lost both korean and global fans, so he probably won't debut.
about the rest of the trainees:
pentagon's leader (hoetaek) lost a little, so he has definitely some stable audience, however idk if this will be enough to re-debut.
park hanbin has stable global audience but lost little of the korean one. could be not enough to debut.
gunwook lost some of the korean votes as well as global ones. it's not that bad as matthew, but i don't know if it will be enough.
jay didn't have that much korean votes anyways, but with the amount he had in the 11th episode he probably won't debut even with the losses.
seungeon gained little korean votes as well as global so if this is enough, he could debut.
jongwoo gained some global votes but lost some korean ones. idk if it will be enough.
junhyeon lost both korean votes and global. the dropout is big but not as matthew's. idk if he will debut tbh
jeonghyeon gained korean and global votes. idk if it will be enough.
kamden also gained a bit korean and global votes. also idk if it will be enough.
if the audience is stable (without cards).. the lineup could be sung hanbin, kim jiwoong, kim taerae, han yujin, ricky has chances of debut, zhang hao too, gyuvin is in question, and for the rest i will bet on seungeon/jeonghyeon/kamden/hoetaek/gunwook.
there's nothing much else i guess
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