Darker ILY Theories: the Shinae + Gun Kim theory
The time has COME. I keep telling myself to write this post but I keep putting it off because honestly, this one makes me feel sick. I’ve been talking about it again with friends while rereading the Black and White Formal arc, and in light of the current FP episode (232) I think it’s time to bring this one back into the fray.
As a big disclaimer this post deals with sexual assault noncon theories of underage girls.
Sometime ago I read a theory that Shinae was at the formal for Gun Kim. There’s been so many theories about the formal. Even recently, there’s been talk about the way Yui had Shinae style her hair seeming similar to how Nessa wore hers, and how she insisted that Shinae meet her husband. I don’t think by any means that discounts this theory at all, because Yui sure knows how to multi-task doesn’t she.
The Kim formal really set up a LOT of story and action. It’s the moment ILY reveals what kind of story it is - not that there weren’t hints and clues before, because we could already see the discord in Nol and Kousuke’s relationship’ the stress in Shinae’s life and her fight with her father; the money struggles; her friends. But the formal introduced so many elements. It showed us how off Alyssa and Nol’s relationship is. It showed us how sinister Yui really is. It fully introdduced Sangchul and how lecherous he is. The Chess theory, the manipulation, the drugs, all of it was at the forefront finally.
And also, we met Gun Kim.
Gun is interesting, because he’s the character we know the least about at this point - and his eyes are always closed. He’s always felt sketchy, even as far back as the black and white formal itself. The characters even comment on it. What is someone who looks like Shinae doing at this formal? Mr. Kim likes all women.
Now that we know how chummy the Kims and Yui/the Hiraharas are, the more sinister it feels. Gun Kim, with his several connections to media conglomorates. Gun Kim, whose father* stepped down from his position as CEO of Hirahara Corp due when facing several sexual assault charges. Gun Kim, father to Sangchul Kim whose prep school has been rife with sexual abuse cases.
(* presumably Gun’s father. Youngchul Kim. Sangchul Kim. It checks out)
At the time, maybe he didn’t seem SO bad. A negligent father. A womanizer, a playboy. But in light of what we’ve learned, I think we can revisit the scene and find some clues laid out, waiting for their time to come.
He makes his grand appearance - convincing the bartender to give underage girls alcohol. Even without the later context, this is terrible, but now that we know what we know.... it feels even more skeevy, even more dangerous. Letting young girls drink, get intoxicated, so that they’re easier for him. Ugggh.
He sure makes himself real comfortable with the girls, too. Sure, there’s nothing inherently wrong with this. What a gracious host. But we know better. And we also know you don’t put your hands on people who don’t even know you. Seeing Alyssa’s face, you wouldn’t ordinarily think anything of her smile mask; she uses it all the time, why would this be any different. But in light of ep 232.... I’ll try to save all my 232 posts for the end so I can put it under a readmore and avoid spoilers.
Isn’t it weird, that he can instantly recognize Shinae? Oh sure, maybe it’s because someone who doesn’t know who he is isn’t from this world, so she has to be Yui’s special guest. And look, Yui and Gun are business partners. Friends, even, since Sangchul seems to know so much about Nol and his family via Gun. Through who else would they know about Nol and his not-much-of-a relationship with Alyssa? So, surely Yui has told Gun about Shinae, since she’s the topic of Kousuke’s interest, right?
But no, I feel horribly, uneasily certain that Yui has shown Gun pictures of Shinae, described her to him, maybe even told him how much fun she is. How she’s got so much personality, that he’ll just enjoy her. Even typing this makes me feel ill ugh. The thought that Gun and Yui are in cahoots not simply by way of business but by way of an even darker, more sinister business is fucking horrifying.
So not only does he instantly recognize her for who she is but
Is it wrong to pay her a compliment? It’s not like he said anything inappropriate. And yet. And yet Shinae is uncomfortable. And yet he is a stranger, a man she doesn’t know, acting too friendly, someone who already knows of her. Danger, danger, danger, danger!
This man gives me the creeps SO MUCH and it’s everything about THIS. His expression, those closed eyes, something about him feels smug and smarmy. Everybody gets drink, everybody gets inebriated, everybody gets to have fun. He’s gross, he’s disgusting, he’s encouraging drinking. We know what kind of fun a man like him wants to see and have.
And he’s not simply enabling underage drinking.
Even after Nol expresses that he doesn’t want a drink, he’s still pushed to have one, still expected to be “respectful of the host”. The host who is pushing alcohol on minors!!! Like, even on its own that’s clearly beyond irresponsible, because you can definitely get the sense that he wants to see what happens when a bunch of kids loosen up, when they all let down their inhibitions, when they all get sloppy and start making mistakes. Like, let’s not pretend otherwise. He wouldn’t be encouraging the drinks at all if he didn’t want something to happen, if he wasn’t hoping for that to transpire.
Like, really mull over that for a moment.
The word choice that’s used here is important, both for the things said and unsaid. Kousuke and Nol may have met Sangchul for the first time, but they’re not stranger to Gun I’m sure. I can’t imagine this is the first Kim formal they’ve had to attend, and even if so, everyone in attendance seems to know Gun’s reputation. Sangchul is one of six children - but only one of two from the same woman. How many women has he been married to? How many more has he simply been with?
And how many of them young. Or against their will?
Sangchul didn’t learn his tactics from no one, let’s not forget that.
Sangchul only knows coercion, bribery, blackmailing, manipulation. If you’ve got a hot girl, you must’ve ha to force her hand, must’ve had to black mail her to get her to agree. It could never be as simple as a girl just liking him, no. It must be some seedy, skeevy, manipulative tactic.
Sexual assault runs in the family. Sangchul learned from watching his father, who no doubt learned from Youngchul. When you see women as property, as items, you don’t see them as people. Even if she refuses, they’ll get what they want in the end, won’t they? UGH.
Kousuke and Nol react in surprise - alarm - because the implications of his wording is creepy. Nol knows Shinae is being forced to attend this formal, she’s not here of her own volition and wouldn’t even accept his offer to safely get her out of there. He probably wonders exactly that - is that why she’s here? And he’s possibly not entirely incorrect.
Yui sweeps in to note that Gun isn’t being so literal, but we know how those two operate. I think as readers we are meant to read into that. It’s not there just for the boys to become alarm, it’s there for us to understand that Gun is not a safe man for Shinae to go alone with. Especially because as readers we already know Shinae feels off, she’s having a drink, AND the episode has quietly informed us that Sangchul roofied her.
And this man comes sweeping in, calling Shinae a cutie, promising to introduce her to everyone.
Even in her addled state, Shinae knows there’s something weird about the use of family, but she’s dazed (she’s drugged), she isn’t feeling right in the head, this whole event has been a nightmare for her so far, she’s being thrown into situations she’s ill-prepared for, so it’s so easy to gloss over it.
But the text emphasizes it itself.
It IS weird.
This is ALL weird.
Does this not make you feel disgusting? Does this not make you want to scream? He’s talking like she’s a pony or something. A grown man parading a minor around, talking about how she’s a cutie, everything is so perfect, her dress - which is modest only in the front and leaves her whole back and parts of her waist bare - everything. And the question about is she your new wife?
How many other pretty young things has he paraded around like this.
How many other pretty young things has he wed? And how many of them were forced against their will, bribed, manipulated? What did he hold over their heads?
I don’t have to spell it out. We know. We all know.
Look at Gun with his eyes closed, that stupid smile on his face. What was it quimchee said of why Mr. Kim’s eyes are always closed? Living is easy with eyes closed. He can turn a blind eye to anything, he can encourage anything. Was the drink too much, he wonders. Was she feeling unwell, he muses. Oh well, it doesn’t matter, my son has her. :)
Gun Kim is no fool. He’s not naive. He is a horrible, vile man and he knows exactly what he was doing, sending an unwell girl who was previously drinking underage off to “rest” with his creepy, vile fucking son.
But Ashlie, you’re asking. I thought you said that Shinae is at the formal for Gun, but he knowingly sent her off in that state with his son, surely knowing what kind of horrible thing he’ll do to her. If she’s for him why didn’t he take her?
He’s the host, of course he can’t take her anywhere yet.
She’s the after party.
jfkafjkfakjfajkafjkafj GOD that felt gross to write I’m sorry but I just KNOW that’s his line of thinking, I just KNOW that’s what this was supposed to be. Everything went awry when dick-punched Sangchul and escaped.
We know well enough now that the Kims are just as vile and atrocious, that they breed a special kind of especially horrible violence, that sexual violence is NOTHING to them - perhaps even fun. The way Sangchul needled Nol about Alyssa makes me so sick, because it tells you everything about how he views and treats women, the kinds of things he, too, has probably done.
All I can think of now is that Yui and Gun are in on this. Of course they are, this is their sleazy empire. Business partners that go further back, deeper than we ever realized. Yui, who has no qualms about playing with peoples’ lives, who gets a thrill out of breaking people down, out of their misery. Gun, who thinks girls and women are ripe for the picking, who enjoys a nice pretty young thing? UGGH UGH UGH death wouldn’t be enough punishment. Prison wouldn’t be enough. NOTHING that happens to them will ever be satisfying enough but GOD I WANT TO SEE THEM TOPPLE AND FALL.
Spoilers for ep 232 ahead:
I think we can already see how this ties in to the current FP episode, right?
I had absolutely NO idea he was this close. Like... I’ve worried about his connections to media conglomerates, I’ve worried about the women he’s been with and how Sangchul learned that behavior, but to see him on the other side of the door of the bathroom in which Alyssa is hiding.... horrifying! The way he calls her sweetheart like he’s some placating father, except we know better. The expression on her face when she hears the girls talking about her but worse, when she hears Gun ask if she needs any help.
It’s her body language when she finally comes out, so meek and small, arms held close to her body like she’s trying to take up as little space as possible.
And it’s the implication that he’s going to drive her himself. Alone.
Not even a manager to spare for her? Or worse, is he a manager? An agent? Is he her superior in this role? There’s so many horrifying, stomach-churning possibilities and in the end, it doesn’t matter which he is, because the point is: he has that access.
He doesn’t need to be their manager, their agent. He has connections. He has Yui. He has his name and influence and power and money and most of all, he has dirty little secrets. So much blackmail. So much dirt.
GOD.
I’m so fucking scared for Alyssa RUN GIRL RUN GET THE FUCK OUT OF THAT ;___________;
I’ll put more thoughts in my actual 232 thought dump post but for now: Gun Kim may not have gotten a hold of Shinae, but he’s not left for want is he ;________;
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Episode Eleven: To a New World
Deep breaths. Uh, pre-emptive apologies; I keep the tightest grip I can over my tone, but this ep sliced me off at the knees. There's a lot of anger in it.
I like Wolfwood. Lots of people do. And I like Knives. Besides Vash himself they pop up on my dash more frequently than any other character. Maybe I like Knives more than Wolfwood because I enjoy poking his horrible trash brain with a stick, but Nick's certainly got his charms.
But I can't get around it. This is the episode where Knives... violates Vash. And this is the episode where Wolfwood turns his back as Vash is screaming in pain and despair, reliving all the worst moments of his life. For reasons (I'M WORKING ON IT and they're not that Meryl is The Girl), Wolfwood was never going to be the one to save Vash from his agony. Back in the initial watch, before I knew anything else, I knew it just wasn't going to happen.
So, sorry, Nick - you’ve had a rough time, but I still giggled when Meryl kicked you in the shin as you tried to pretend you didn't give a shit. I needed the levity. Off you go, brood over your sins and the whatnot. I'm sure Vash is gonna be just fine.
And you, Millions Knives. Today it's the tire iron.
This is the first time we finally see him fully revealed - full face, cloak discarded, even his thoughts themselves laid bare. (By the way, he's not actually naked; that's just a very, very tight bodysuit. I think he wears it so he looks like his idea of what a Masculine Plant is, like an Italian Renaissance sculpture. Also pretty sure he made it himself. Without it, he'd look just as human as Vash does.) Knives spends a lot of time talking, often very passionately... but you still cannot trust anything he says to be the truth; not about himself, not about Vash. At best, there might be a tiny sprinkle of truth prettying up a great big lie. Or he genuinely believes what he's saying; it's just that he's confidently wrong. I don't doubt, for instance, that Vash really is motivated by a lot of guilt over the Fall, not least because Knives was the one who put that guilt on Vash and left it to slowly consume him. Nonetheless I always think back to the line, "Does their praise cure it? The loneliness?" because, well, no? It doesn't? Because that’s not the point. Vash doesn't do what he does for praise or to avoid loneliness. If you try and tell him he's good at something he brushes you off - "just lucky!" and then he's vanished through the backdoor before you can thank him.
Similarly, we see a moment where Knives just straight up changes reality to suit his narrative - when poor Rollo called for Vash, he said that he wanted to live. In Knives's world, he begs Vash for death.
When Knives says these things, it's not accurate criticism of Vash, or of his philosophy, or even anything to do with the Plants. It's not the truth. It's not an argument. It's a probe.
Especially in this episode. Knives is trying to rip Vash open. He’s searching for the points where he can apply pressure - the most efficient means to break him down. How true his words are is not relevant. Only whether or not they hurt Vash, weaken his resolve, undermine his ego and confidence - which he already barely has anyway because of Knives.
Why the hell would he do this? I mean, as much as I can be sure of anything with this guy, I’m sure that Knives loves Vash very much. His brother might well be all that he loves - all that he has left. We can argue about what kind of love (though it's really not a debate I want to get into, so I’ll capitalise the words Very Normal and leave it at that). But it is love. Forget about the higher plane and the dependent Plants (which is to say I'll try and find a way to get down my thoughts on them, but not at this time). Knives is doing what he’s doing because he loves Vash.
Specifically, he’s doing it so that Vash won't leave him.
Imagine how the moments before the crash must have felt for Rem. Every second counts in an emergency, and yet she took the time, perhaps selfishly, to ensure her children escaped before anyone else. I think she'd already decided to go back for the sleepers, but the longer she went without doing so the less possible it became and the harder it got to keep her resolve. Still she took those precious moments, the last they ever had together, for the love of her boys. A chance was all she had to give them, but her work was done too soon.
And Nai. With the knowledge of the rest of the series he was acting so calm because he planned this, and it went just the way he expected it would – until the moment he reached out his hand, and Rem said no. We don't see his face, but we do see Vash, pleading desperately, thrown hard back into his seat, and it was Nai who did that when Rem refused him.
Remember? Nai offered Rem a choice.
So to Knives, that left Vash to be only thing in the world that matters as much completing his crusade. I suspect he views the two as the same goal – having Vash back means killing the humans, and killing the humans means Vash is his. His and Vash's safety, togetherness, and freedom means there must be absolutely nothing left of humanity.
Even if it's the intrinsic humanity of his brother. (And of him. But he's not going to acknowledge that. Nope.)
So Knives didn't simply want Vash without his memories. Knives is a perfectionist - he hates to even admit to the possibility that he might have made a mistake, to the point where he assigns all blame for his actions to Vash. Vash's emotional development under his total control would be too unpredictable, too likely to fail. If given a choice, Vash could make the same choice that Rem did (again), and that risk is simply unacceptable.
So what Knives wants is for Vash to be without autonomy, devoid of independence - a shadow that he casts, empty of agency save that which Knives enacts through him. A graven image. Depending only upon him. Needing only him. If it means he'll finally be first before humanity, rather than alongside or behind them, he won't be all alone. It's only together that they can be perfect, because it's obviously what Vash is for.
After all, they're twins. Vash was born to be with Knives.
I'm sure he's just happy to be useful.
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