I started in DC by reading fanfics, but as I began to read actual comics, I started to be unable to read the actual fanfic that got me into it in the first place because it's so out of character.
But there are still some stories that I love to read because I love the found family trope so much, even if it isn't really accurate to the source material.
As a comics purist (sometimes), are there tropes that you like enough that you'll still enjoy a fic even if it's not accurate to canon?
oh my god this is SUCH a fun question. bc while i started with the comics, there were certain characters and/or character dynamics where i was exposed to the fanon before the canon (just bc it's hard to read everything when you start out just to read some fanfic) and so i've definitely experienced the fanon to canon transition. (*especially* with Jason Todd. i had only read 80s/90s stuff where he was already dead or the New-52 bc that was on-going when i got into comics and man. the fanon misunderstandings i had about him before i got frustrated and sat down to read all his pre-Flashpoint stuff were absolutely bonkers.) and aside from that, whilst i tend to prefer canon over fanon, i'm not past giving fanon its flowers for occasionally having really interesting insights. occasionally. so some of my fanon "guilty pleasure" tropes would probably be
Morally Grey Tim Drake - this is one where if you try to back it up with canon, i *will* get salty about it. of everyone in the Batfam aside from maybe Bruce and Cass, Tim has the *most* black and white morals. often his internal conflicts are routed in such an inability to compromise his moral views and it can cause him to clash with other characters. he's *very* stiff and rigid in his beliefs and is *rare* to compromise in even the smallest ways. i mean, DC has repeatedly used Tim Drake of Tomorrow/Savior/Gun Batman!Tim for a reason. it's to demonstrate that of everyone, Tim *cannot* have his morals compromised. there's no grey area for him. he's zero or a hundred, so if he tips over the edge of "too far" he tips *all the way*, and doing so is one of his worst fears, how he could go "too far" if he let himself. a couple panels out of context from Red Robin (2009) (which was a grief spiral for Tim to begin with) don't change that. now that said. if it's done *right*, i sort of love Tim being morally grey in fanfic. it takes a specific flavor for me, and it's incredibly important to include that mental spiral along with it, of him struggling to justify it. i don't have any interest in "Tim Drake is loosy goosy with Bruce's morals and has the highest kill count and no one knows teehee" bc it doesn't play with the interesting parts of making Tim morally grey, which are fracturing his psyche. but all in all, i think it's fun to put Tim in a morally grey area and i will read it in fanfic and i enjoy writing it a lot
Joker Junior!Tim Drake - i've not written it on this account (yet) but on my main ao3 account one of my biggest fics surrounds this concept. this is one of those "well *technically* it's canon but only in a specific very divorced from the comics universe and would not work at all in the main timeline" so, i categorize it as fanon in that 95% of fics exploring the concept are not doing so within the Batman Beyond universe, but the main timeline. i just love it. I'll take any excuse to whump Tim, but this concept is so fun. psychologically breaking Tim will always be my favorite pastime. there are so many ways to explore the long-term effects this could have on him, how it could affect the Batfam. i'm not a fan of it being used as a "gotcha" to Jason or Babs' trauma with the Joker to paint Tim as the Ultimate Victim, but it is fun to see how their relationships would be affected by being mutual victims of him. (i have a vague JayTim idea where TIm fully retires from being Robin after being Joker Junior and killing the Joker, making Steph Robin for most of his typical Robin era and Jason still tracks him down out of curiosity bc he wants to know what happened and all. very underbaked but i've got thoughts.)
Renegade/Apprentice of Slade!Dick Grayson - this is another one where yes, this happened *sort of* in canon, but i highly doubt most people writing Renegate!Dick have read or are actually pulling from Nightwing: Renegade. it's just an exploration fo the concept fo Dick being Slade's apprentice and i will always eat it up in any capacity. whether Dick grows up with Slade from a young age, or chooses Slade for whatever reason later in life. it's not anything that works in canon bc it compromises Dick morally (similar to the above with Tim) and therefore will always come across incredibly fanon in most fics. but i can't say i don't enjoy it. it's fun to make Dick a little morally fucked up and see what you can make him under Slade's tutelage.
Jason & Damian Meeting in the League -there's no world where i believe this could work in the canon comics. (maybe in the Young Justice cartoon i suppose, but even then i think it's iffy) i would go as far to say it's wildly unrealistic. i don't see a world where Ra's would let Jason anywhere *near* Damian, bc Jason was Talia's pet project that he didn't approve of. that all said, there's something very interesting about how they *could've* met and them potentially bonding during that timeframe. them being somewhat brotherly during this time because Jason sees Bruce in Damian and sort of latches onto the kid and Damian is full of wonder hearing real stories about Batman and Robin, then that getting violently ripped away by Jason leaving the League is fun to me. it's fun how that could affect them within the Batfam and all. it's super fanon to me, but i do not care. i will eat it up
Bad Dad Clark Kent/Good Dad Lex Luthor - i will admit as a late, i've been less and less kind to this particular fanon bc of everything i've argued with people about, *this* one seems the most pervasive as misunderstood fanon. i don't mind when fanon exists, my gripe is when ppl try to claim it's canon. and the *arguments* i've had over this with people who can never seem to cite an actual comic are... frustrating. but that said, i think there is something fun to this strictly in fanon. the duality of who you expect to accept Kon and who you expect to hurt him being flipped is just sort of fun for the occasional guilty pleasure fic. it can make Kon's internal conflict a bit more interesting. the same goes for the Jon favoritism from Clark, it's not a canon thing (and i rlly wish ppl understood how complicated the timeline of Kon and Jon is and any distance from Clark toward Kon isn't malice, it's that Kon is from a timeline that Clark does not remember in the current canon so Clark just straight up doesn't know the poor kid.) but it's sort of fun to give Kon that complex of being overlooked and forgotten sometimes. making Kon just a *bit* more Luthor than Kent will *always* appeal to me in fanfic, especially if he *knows* it's wrong but craves approval from anyone who will give it.
Good Dad Bruce Wayne - i'll die on the hill Bruce is canonically a shitty father. maybe not to the extreme some people write him as, but he's not great at it. that said, i enjoy it in fanfiction. sometimes, i just want silly fluff or hurt/comfort where Bruce finally gets it right and manages to comfort whatever Batkid is in the fic. one of my favorite fics of all time is hinged on Bruce being a good dad, so i think it's just fun to explore how good the relationships *could* be, if Bruce was slightly less of an asshole. i usually prefer him as an asshole, but there are times i want low stakes nonsense.
Gotham Rogues Having Soft Spots for Robin(s) - just about every Rogue in Gotham has done something absolutely irredeemable, and most of them don't like or care about anyone in the Batfamily. but if there's a fic where one of the Robins inexplicably is sort of close with a Rogue and they have a cute silly relationship out of it? I'll eat it up i fear. Steph and the Riddler are besties? I'll believe it. Tim and Scarecrow get along pretty well? give me ten of these. Rogues protecting Robins just hits a spot. the unexpected nature of the relationship, as well as the fact they see each other regularly, can make a lot of good fodder.
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its probably meant to be somewhat ambiguous but it seems most likely that armand was gaslighting louis so that he didn't trust himself and daniel didn't trust him. he also seemed to basically get what he wanted by instigating a fight and igniting some passion, we see by next ep's start it probably got resolved with sex and absolution. idk the talamasca angle is not as interesting a story
Ask is in reference to this post: HERE
That's cool. You're able to hold that I'm able to hold mine. Interpretations are just that. I will say it doesn't matter whether Armand planted them, or not, because he still ends up gaslighting Louis in the 2x04 argument anyway. It’s effectively gaslighting even if they are telling the truth here as they see it because of how things stack up and what's said.
It is basically how you said, and I'll just go ahead and expand for anyone who might not see it so clearly. Initially, it seems he's more or less trying to just get Louis off his case for the photos, and is willing to throw him, his mental state, and character under the bus, to do so. But Louis already straight up knows him of doing manipulative things, of this exact sort, in the interview before this event even occurred - Namely that Armand is making himself look far more approachable, and better to Daniel, even after they'd both agreed to basically tear this guy to shreds, which makes Louis look worse by default, and goes against what they agreed to both do. Armand has a repeated tendency to fall through on his promises, or promise things, but then take it his own direction when it suits him. In all cases, he does keep obstructing Louis interview, especially when it comes to Daniel, and won't fully admit to it. - this is why Louis' so reactive, among just the fact he has trauma related to being denied his own interiority, fullness, and freedoms, because he's Black, and in society, less human more 'savage'. Armand simply doesn't help his case by denying it, even if it were actually his truth that the photos weren't his doing. (Note; Armand has also faced horrific dehumanizing traumas, but in such a differing way I don't think he's able to empathize with the same way Louis been dehumanized in life. I argue a little if Louis is even able to do more than simply hold a lot of sympathy for Armand, as they really are not a lot alike in both their interior and exterior reality. I don't think that sympathy goes both ways often.)
The way he's also keeps behaving like the bigger person in this reinforces the belief Armand wants out of Louis, making him 'see' it, and probably also to Daniel as well who's definitely overhearing this (this particular part has a chance of being unintentional however, if he was only really intending to deescalate, but it still keeps the same effects).
Not only making Louis look like he's crazy to assume it, but denying he'd been doing anything wrong of the sort (by simply at no point coming forward and saying something reassuring of Louis reality along the lines of, 'I have been doing those things, it's just not this, and those weren't my intentions to hurt you with it, I'm sorry' or simply 'okay, I did it, sorry'). As well, it doesn't matter how much Armand's truthful, Louis is someone who necessarily does need reality checks like that, because he suffers from hallucinations, and as he's finding out, memory lapses, and not providing them will make him jump to presume it could be his own symptoms. Also, at one point in the argument, he actually throws out that Louis is insane, if it needed to be anymore obvious. Which is derogatory, if arguably true, though reinforces that Armand's behaviors to 'stop or aid his madness' in prior instances were all a-okay, and all necessary. There's nothing wrong with him, and what he's doing, its all Louis. (His intentions to deescalate, if anyone wants to take on that idea, would've changed by then. It reads as a pattern to me mimicking of the promises falling through.)
Anyway, I'd be saying in my interpretation that him willing to keep this up, even though the photos had nothing to do with it, just shows how much he'd actually use any situation that arises to manipulate/control Louis, and mess with Louis interview, as opposed to orchestrating or planning situations, so he can then also manipulate with it. With all intentions or not, it doesn't really matter. Which makes his manipulation more realistic, honestly. A better portrait of who Armand is tbh.
I don't claim this transcript as 100% accurate, but it's as close as I can get it:
L: Four Fred Steins in the album, four. You made me look foolish.
A: You just assume it was me.
L: Well, it wasn’t me.
A: You sure about that?
L: Excuse me?
A: I take it back.
L: Take it way fucking back.
A: It was probably an honest mistake from the staff.
L: You think I need to be coddled, hyped up, lied to?
-cut-
A: You’re being Lestat!
L: Go call on him, see what happens.
A: A little ridiculous… It's the staff, dear.
L: I’m being ridiculous? You wanna see, you wanna see ridiculous?
A: No, Louis, it was an honest mistake. You knew it.
L: AAAH
A: You weren’t here-
L: LA LA LA LA
A: -And more and more of them-
L: LA LA
A: They got through!
-flashbacks-
A: This isn’t about Lestat!
-more flashback-
L: You lobbed at Daniel, and disrespected me.
A: no no no no no no.
-flashback-
L: and over and over and over it’s always the same damn thing.
A: You trying to trick me?
L: I don’t know I’m just your God now. The abandonment, and aren’t we both cut throat?
A: You won’t believe me, when I was here. I’m the one who can see!
L: Alright, first off, first off.
A: You are insane!
-fb-
L: You always do this! … We’ll be done with Daniel any day now. Now, knock it off. Its about the record, this is my interview. You hear me? The whole interview that will be heard by me.
A: In a future that you won’t see!
-fb-
L: No more! Will you go to speak without asking first. No more! Will you ever flirt around on your years.
A: Oh, come to Dubai, Louis says, but not me.
-Then I can’t make out anything-
Sex and absolution I do agree with as well. Like they did do that. I don't think either were expecting it to go that way from the beginning, though, as in neither started or orchestrated a reason for argument just to have makeup sex. That being somewhat normal for them after a big argument like that would not surprise me however. A certain interpretation I take of them having sex after (given the argument) was more that (it seems to me) part of the accusations here is that Armand is 'flirting' to win over Daniel's favor, and trying to get with him? Maybe even back together with him? (Centered a lot around Armand telling him his little love story with Lestat.) If not, just turning him against him. So having sex could reinforce Armand had/has no intentions of leaving, further obstructions wrt Daniel, and/or infidelity. That it's 'me and you' and not 'you and him'. (Which could be the real lie depending on how you want to take it here lmao. And is so bound to fall through because... Armand doesn't keep his promises, not even to himself it seems since he turned Daniel).
Again all interpretations are just that, so long as it can be legitimately supported by the text, and isn't grossly insensitive. The Talamasca just adds to the whole scene to me more than it detracts from it. The outside world necessarily has influenced both of their inside worlds, and further how they interact with each other in both, and is the cause behind of a lot of their behaviors and reactions. Talamasca causing those to erupt sort of points to that. It's real. The whole narrative actually feels more concrete and like there's a world outside who can still influence them if they were the one's doing it. Sometimes I feel people want to center Louis a bit too much in the story, which is fair, it is his story, he has a narrative that should be centered, but it is also other people's story as well. They are playing roles here in it.
Also this is why I really wonder if they'd ever revisit this? I'm a little peeved about it being so hidden tbh. There seems like so much added context and we're denied most of it from the music and constant flashbacks. Fingers-crossed maybe Daniel was recording it? IDK.
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