#i’m not even talking as a lokius shipper

[alicerovai]

but, seriously. how did we get to the point of Loki falling in love with a female Loki variant?

[rocketrouquine]

So I watched the 2 last episodes of Loki (including the finale) and well I have thoughts.

All in all, except for the beginning and the last two episodes, I really thought it was not as good as the first one. (Probably because Majors as Timely was excruciating, I hate when actors are trying stuff like this, it feels forced, it doesn’t work, I wanted to punch him every time he was opening his mouth) BUT …lokius. Yeah let’s talk about it.

It’s crazy to me how in the first season I was all for sylki because I thought their relationship and feelings were really well done and realised (whereas I saw what the mobius shippers saw but thought that it wasn’t really there there) BUT in the second season, I felt absolutely nothing between Loki and Sylvie. There was no more chemistry at all (it was like it never existed in the first place, it was bizarre) and even the actress playing Sylvie played it like a sibling or a good friend kind of fed up, just want to be left alone, not missing him for a second. And Loki pining for her but like a nerd is pining for a cheerleader in a bad teen movie (like boy, you’re not obligated to love her, you know), like you don’t even understand why except for the fact that it was here (emphasis on the was)

NOW Mobius and Loki in the second season ??? BAM 💥 Like sheesh everything : chemistry, banter, touch, exchanged looks,protectiveness, an ease like they are really soulmates. You could feel it all in every single one of their exchanges, it really was like watching a romcom where the protagonist fails to see what is in front of him and I was getting frustrated each time he was going all misty eyes for her, I was like « come on man let her go, we don’t fucking care about her anymore !! » Then, the finale…. The scene with Loki coming to see Don at his place with all the tension of a « is he here for this or ? What should I do? » gay panic, with Loki fucking putting his hair back and taking a breath before going to see him, like WHAT ?! That’s not what a friend does before seeing one other !!! You know what you are doing, so commit for fuck’s sake. But well… then they did (sort of) with the end of the finale. And it gutted me.

The moment with Sylvie and Mobius looking at him through the window… we know you put her there because it would have been impossible to brush it off if it was just Mobius juxtaposed with Loki’s « for you » but we know. I mean the last exchange with Sylvie at Don’s place before Mobius is saying « let time pass » (gu-tted I tell you). You can see that Sylvie is like « whatever » and Mobius is devastated. Also the shot of him in the dialogue was just all Loki’s colors green and yellow (hers was in a normal sunlight, his backlit) That is not an accident, to have these colors you have to plan it the day of the shoot and enhance it in color grading during post. This was a choice.

Anyway, I am not a sylki shipper anymore (and I even question why I ever was, after seeing the second season : I’ll probably cut myself some slack if I do a rewatch of season 1 because it was well executed at the time) and I’m diving in the pits of despair of Lokius. These fuckers.

[scifiandthedoctor]

"So I think it's beautiful that people could read that relationship in other ways. It was never the the intention. But also, we can't get into Loki's head and Loki as a character is bisexual and gender fluid, and I don't know. But it wasn't something that we were ever exploring, I would say."

There’s a lot of stuff in this article but this one quote backtracks a mile away from the rest of the article. I’m sure there have been “talks” because the lokius tag worked like a wildfire marketing machine when the actors couldn’t promote. Nothing else broke through the social media scenery like lokius. Even the official accounts did their own “heartbreak” posts in lieu of the tag. It was the reason I continued watching the series even though the first season didn’t really stick. I wanted to see some romance that’s been building for a bit because it’s a pretty bleak reality out here right now. Also the sci-fi stuff - I loved. My favourite combo. In general, I go for ALL romance, the chemistry just has to be there. And you know it’s there if a fandom tag is on fire. Lokius definitely was, it was everywhere.

But besides the romance - over a DECADE and Loki has never been allowed to be bisexual or gender-fluid on the main. I fear Loki will always be hetero rep on the main.

And also, if you’re out there shouting the shippers just want everything to be gay. Just go have some fresh air. What? The world needs love in all its forms, because it’s out in the world it should be in our screens as well. You give me a well built romance with chemistry and an actual riveting plot to go with it - I’ll watch it, I’ll read it. The characters can be whomever.

Also everyone go see Marvels we don’t need another set of “marvel has too many women that’s why MCU is dying” haters. At least we have some rep in Marvels even if “the main” doesn’t allow anything else.

This rant took a few turns.

[mischief-lies-and-stories]

Loki Series Theories 2/?

Mobius is a Loki

I want to preface this by saying I do not like this theory. It makes so much sense to me but it is upsetting. As a selfcest anti but a Lokius shipper, I’m not a fan. If this proves to be true, I’m going to have to rethink everything, and I don’t want to. As I said in my pinned post I’m a selfcest anti, but I really like lokius so I might have to rethink that. I’ll probably end up just dropping lokius, but I don’t know if I’ll want to. 

Okay, so here’s my theory on this. 

In the void, the only people we meet are Lokis. We see one brief reference to Thanos, one brief reference to Thor, and a ship of presumably sailors from one of the World Wars (I think 2), and that is it. Of these, Thanoscopter: crashed, Thanos is nowhere in sight. Thor: a frog in a jar, we see him very briefly, it is no more than a funny easter egg (how canon that is, is your opinion). The sailors on the ship: devoured by Alioth like five seconds after they show up. So the only people who survive in the void are Lokis and Mobius. (And Frog Thor, but I’m not counting him, because I don’t know when he dies. I don’t know when he got there, I don’t know how long he lasts there, he could have only lasted as long as those sailors.)

This could go a few different ways. One, as Loki tells Sylvie, “We don’t die. We survive.” And as such, because the only survivors in the void are Lokis and Mobius, that would imply that only Lokis are able to survive, statistically. And therefore, Mobius is also a Loki, because he survives.

Another way this could be taken: The void is a place where specifically Loki variants go. Let me explain. The ship: All of them are Loki variants, that’s what gets them sent there. Thor Frog: is Loki in disguise. He gets sent to the void, because he’s Loki. Thanoscopter: sent to the void, because Loki stole it. (Presumably President Loki. Cuz he’s a dick. And I hate him.) Therefore, the only people who get sent to the void in first place, not just the people who live in the void, the only people who get sent to the void in the fucking first place, are Lokis. So Mobius gets pruned, Mobius shows up in the void, Mobius is a Loki. 

I rest my case, your honor. And I don’t like it. 

Because the thing is, why else is Mobius there? There’s only one other reason why Mobius could still be surviving there, if only Lokis survive in the void. (This wouldn’t be an explanation for if only Lokis go to the void, because he would have no control over that.) But if only Lokis survive in the void, the only reason why he is still there is because he has studied Lokis so much, and he’s gotten so wrapped up and so tangled up in their affairs and their personality and their history and them in general, that he knows how to behave like a Loki. 

So even if he’s not a Loki, he knows how to behave like a Loki. He’s clever; he’s stealthy; he can think things through; he can see big picture; he knows how to be resourceful; he– survives! 

He survives. Because even if he’s not a Loki, he knows how they tick. 

So, I haven’t talked myself out of this one, but I’ve given myself an out. 

Canon Likelihood: Mobius is a Loki……….Likely.

I don’t think the writers are clever enough to explain why he’s the only non-Loki to survive there as being that he knows Lokis so well. I don’t. I don’t have enough faith in the writers, I’m sorry. (None of them are Al Ewing, I have loyalties.) So, either A, we never talk about the void again, and so we never get an explanation why the only ones who survive in the void are Lokis and Mobius is the outlier. Or B, we get the easy way out, and that’s that Mobius’s history is that he’s also a Loki, and that he just doesn’t know it. (And yes, I do think that’s the easy way out. I think it’s the dumbest theory I’ve ever come up with that actually holds water. I think it’s a cop-out. I think if I can come up with it in the shower, it’s a dumb theory.)

[enchantricksbot]

should’ve figured you’re autistic by the blog u run

Ok so I’m autistic. Autism is something I’ve struggled with and has made my life hellish, but I’m not ashamed of that, that’s why I’ll talk about having a disability. Plenty of neutrotypical people have stan blogs. Kpop, superwholock, sports, ect my hyperfix has always been comics and femme villains. I’m sure there’s something you’re a big fan of. Own merch of. Share posts of.

I honestly wasn’t even going to respond to this. I delete most of the petty anons, and I said on twitter I don’t understand why I get them. I just needed to rant bc I’m not getting why I receive anon hate or so many ship war messages. Lokius Sylki Enchantricks whatever. I have no problems with you or anyone. No, I don’t like proship personally, it weirds me out, but majority of my followers are thorkis tbh and they’ve been rly cool and nice people. Whether multi shippers or don’t like enchantricks at all. They’ve never pushed it on me or sent me hate regarding ships. They’ve actually been rly accepting of me voicing my opinion. I said it made me uncomfortable and people on twitter were like “ya ok that’s totally fine” that doesn’t mean we can’t get along, appreciate good art, be nice to each other. I wish everyone could be like that. But some ships seem so charged rn.

You can also like a ship and not want it to be canon. Met a lot of Lokius and FrostIron shippers like that. Enchantricks being canon is irrelevant, you don’t have to support it in canon if you think it shouldn’t be. Natasha/Bruce was canon. That one was interesting. You don’t even have to support it at all to follow me or like what I post. I’ve said this before. But people keep sending me shit like this that comes after me as a person is fucked up. Ya it’s “the internet man up,” whatever. Ableists suck my dick and balls

Maybe this wasn’t even about ships, most of the angry anons I get are, so I assumed it is, maybe it’s towards all comic stans, or Loki shippers. Idk. But your behavior is inappropriate and small.

[nerdby]

I’m not talking about the comics, that’s why I only referred to it as the mcu. And I have seen eternals, that’s why I didn’t list him in the characters with Valkyrie. I’m trying to point out the nuances u missed and instead of understanding a different perspective, u spew defensiveness and reduce my point down to something trivial. You can personally go around saying it’s biphobic, but I do not think it is, and have my reasons and arg as previously listed. It’s another perspective very worth noting, and that your view isn’t the ultimate objectively correct view.

Okay, I'm gonna go a bit off topic and I don't expect you to read any of it because you've already made up your mind about me, but here we fucking go.

I understand your perspective. I just disagree with it. Because, personally, I think even mentioning that Loki is bisexual is a HUGE fucking deal. I don't need to see him make out with a dude in order to feel validated, okay? I grew up in the 1990s when movies involving queer characters were considered adult films that were not suitable for children or teenagers. They were R-rated simply because the main characters were queer. No one talked about sexuality unless it was point out how sinful it was and we did not even breathe the words gender unless someone was pregnant. Bisexuality was a footnote in the pages of books on LGBT rights.

That is why shows like Glee and movies like I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry were once considered groundbreaking, and why I personally love them. Granted Chuck & Larry would literally have no story if they had acknowledged bisexuality in the first place, but the thing is that bisexuality was too edgy for cinema back then. It would have made the movie less marketable because it would have alienated both biphobia queer people and cishet people. So when that movie was released and there was positive, laid back, funny representation of queer people -- representation that didn't paint queer people as pedophiles or murderers -- that's why me and my queer friends were ecstatic. Because even though the premise was flawed, it was a step in the right direction because it helped normalize queerness.

That's why I'm over the fucking moon just to see Loki come out even if he's in a straight-passing relationship. Especially because like I said, the MCU is currently under Disney's control and until the 2010's Disney has been notorious for only putting out queer-coded villains. Since Loki is a hero by the end of season two, that is a BIG fucking deal especially to queer people my age.

It doesn't matter whether or not you're talking about the comics, though, because like or not the MCU would NOT exist if it weren't for the comics that had been leftist reading material since 1941. So they are 100% relevant to this conversation.

The Sylki ship really upsets antis: People who think that just because something is taboo that makes it bad when in reality it's just a nod to the comics that the Loki series is based on. Specifically the 2011 arc Thor: Journey Into Mystery.

And bisexuals and queer people in general are not monoliths. We're gonna disagree on stuff. I've known I was bisexual since I was nine years old. I know from real life experience that bisexuals don't fall in love with everyone within a ten foot radius. Which is something I have been accused of in real life by insecure dumbasses. So, yes, I probably have some trauma I need to work through regarding that and if you've never encountered that kind of biphobia in real life then you are very lucky. That's why the idea of people perpetuating that myth is upsetting for me. That's not something I like to advertise because I think there is nothing stupider someone could do than advertise their triggers to an entire platform full of trolls, bigots, and bullies.

But I have nothing against Lokius shippers themselves. They can ship whoever they want -- that's the entire point of fanfictions and fan art and blah blah blah.

I don't seek out their blogs and harass them because of the ships they like. Or dislike.

When I see content I disagree with I just keep right scrolling and stay out of the comments so I don't say anything stupid or impulsive and start arguments like a petty child. This, however, is MY blog and I'm not going to censor myself for anyone. I'm allowed to say that something upsets me.

Now, I'm going to ask that you either stop sending me asks or else block me before I block you. Because this conversation has triggered my PTSD, and I'm not in the mood to continue it.

[gottagobackintime]

I liked the season finale of Loki, except the kiss. Sylvie should have pulled a Back to the Future “It’s like I’m kissing my brother”. I really hope they throw that storyline in the bin, and have them be just friends and siblings.

[yeetusmcneetus]

For the first time ever, I’m actually avoiding the tumblr fandom for the thing I love. For the first time ever, I feel ostracised by my people. I am a bisexual woman, in a relationship with a bisexual man. I have had to fight so fucking hard to stop people from attacking me and abusing me because I’m in a long term committed relationship with a man. I get told that I need to “pick a side”. People accuse me of lying about my bisexuality for “clout”. My relationship with my partner is loving, and valid, and while we are in a heterosexual relationship, we’re both still bisexual. Being in a relationship with a man doesn’t stop me from being attracted to women. I’m still LGBTQ.

My partner and I are both long time marvel super fans. He’s more in to the comics, and stays out of the fandom, while I love the movies and spend hours at a time on tumblr, Ao3 and Twitter. I’ve been in the fandom for years, and I’ve always been a massive shipper, mostly stucky and SamBucky. My partner and I have been watching all the new Disney plus series together, and we’ve absolutely loved them. WandaVision had us constantly on the edge of our seats, and TFATWS had us screaming at the TV to “fucking kiss already”. And now, Loki is the one airing. When Loki and Sylvie both said that they’re attracted to men and women, we were over the moon. Because we looked at the TV and saw us. We were represented. And at the end of that episode, when they’re sitting by the lake, I could feel Loki and Sylvie’s connection. And I could see it, when I looked at my partner on the couch beside me. I loved the idea of them potentially falling for each other, and immediately ran to tumblr after the episode finished.

And everyone on here was screaming from the rooftops that it’s homophobic for a bisexual man to fall for a woman. That it’s homophobic for my partner to love me, and for me to love him. How dare a bisexual man actively be bisexual, and not just gay. I cried myself to sleep that night. I came out in high school, and while my friends were supportive, not everyone else was. I went through a lot of shit, and a lot of people invalidating me, saying I was a lesbian, or that I was a straight faker. And all of you were on here, screaming that in my face. I have seen so many people say “what was the point of making Loki bisexual if he’s gonna kiss a woman?” He’s bisexual, that’s the point. And while we’re here, he’s also genderfluid so is he even kissing someone of the same gender? There’s an argument to be made that y’all are being horrible as fuck to non binary people, but I’m cis so it’s not my argument to make.

If you want to ship Möbius and Loki, go ahead, I’m not going to stop you. While I personally only saw platonic love there, seeing something more, and talking about it online is harmless. Write all the fanfiction, make all the art you want (I’ve seen some fucking gorgeous Lokius art, y’all are talented as fuck). When it becomes a problem, is when you become so disillusioned and distanced from your reality in your fetishisation of gay men, that you are actively biphobic while claiming to be “woke”. I’ve been sitting on this rant for a few weeks now, and I’ve finally decided to post it after jumping in the Loki tag tonight and seeing hundreds of people saying that it’s homophobic for a bisexual man to be bisexual. Literally fuck y’all. Walk outside and touch some fucking grass.

[hansoeii]

(same s2 Sy*ki anon here) I asked because I see a lot of syl/ki shippers talking how obviously they're gonna continue with syl/ki in s2, and I kinda see what they mean. I'm of the Clown Lokius Nation myself, but even I, seeing the s1 finale, thought that the worst scenario here would be Loki looking for Sylvie across the timelines/universes (which makes no sense, but that's exactly what I expect from Loki writers at this point) - not for Mobius, but for her. Just like I thought the worst scenario for ep 6 would be syl/ki kiss, and it happened, so...

Obviously, If the writers wanna be some real idiots here and don't understand Loki at all (which sadly is the case yes) then yeah, the possibility is there. But this is the worst case scenario.

But honestly, to me it doesn't seem like it. Especially since Mobius is literally the fan favorite and I feel pretty confident that they would want to squish as much content out of this character as possible. Since after all, popularity means money. Also, they market Tom and Owen together quite a bit. They let them talk about stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the show itself. This is who they want us to focus on so I'm pretty damn sure that this dynamic will continue in season 2. Even Kevin f*cking Feige said that he knew Loki and Mobius would be the most popular pairing they ever had in marvel. These two is are the main show here! They're a packaged deal!

I feel like the whole Sylvie and Loki thing is over, it was in there to give Loki growth, but it's done now. They'll go separate paths now. It does not make sense for them to search for the other now. They just do not work and they realized that too.

[watcherinwater]

FYI-In no way am I calling out all shippers who ship the ships I will mention-just the militant ones who invade tags and harass people for not shipping their ship or who harass people for saying it’s not canon.

I’m getting really tired of all the stupid ship wars over the Loki show. I don’t care if you ship whatever you want but stop invading other peoples tags just to belittle what they ship . I can’t even filter them out because some you guys are invading the mainstream tags without even tagging it as ships. And just because your ship is the most popular doesn’t give you the right to harass people and to try to force them to say it’s canon. Newsflash-none of these ships are canon. Will they be? Possibly-though I don’t think so-especially since the head writer has already said that the most popular ship won’t be although it’s true that he could be lying. They are all controversial in some way-even though a queer relationship shouldn’t be; at least not for being queer. But guess what guys-not everybody sees chemistry of a romantic type among all these characters and I really wish some you all would stop acting like everyone is supposed to feel the way about it that you do.

Yeah some people ship some controversial and sometimes distasteful stuff-like self-love, incest and other weird shit has been available in many fandoms for some time. And no it doesn’t automatically mean people do it in real life. It’s also a pretty small corner of fandom-you’re literally giving it attention by even talking about it so much. You don’t have to like it but you do need to accept that it exists. I guarantee you there’s all kinds of stuff that’s a lot worse than what I just mentioned in many fandoms and it’s usually not that hard to ignore that part of fandom-especially on social media-just filter out the tags and don’t go looking for them. That some of you bitch about it but literally go looking for it in the tags says a lot. I see several people who do this who have no problem with rape, torture, clone f******, and even underage stuff in the fandom so quit moralizing. There are profiles that invade tags that go around talking about ships that they feel are morally wrong-dude seriously keep it on your profile all you want but quit invading tags. If you have a problem with stuff that’s “morally wrong” I hate to break it to you but it’s all over the world and all over fandom. And those of you complaining about incest type ships-how many of you were fine with Jamie and Cersei in Game of Thrones because it was canon? How many of you are fine with writing about the weird romantic situations Loki gets into in both the myths and the comics (more on the below).

On the other hand-those of you who ship controversial ships that the majority find distasteful need to understand that most mainstream fans aren’t going to like them. People don’t or at least aren’t supposed to do this stuff in the real world and if you want to write in in your corner of fandom that’s fine. But most people aren’t going to like it and you need to stay in your lane and tag your stuff and not say it’s canon. To be fair until recently most of you did do this.

People ship Loki with a lot of weird ships. We’re talking about the guy/girl who in the myths and some parts of the comics turned into a mare and gave birth to a horse! And who in both the comics and the myths has monster children. Who ate a witch’s heart and gave birth to monsters. Many of you are fine with this because it’s canonical in most media.  I doubt you’d be okay with it in real life-or that you assume that everybody who writes fan fiction (and there’s a lot of it) about it is okay with it in real life. Some people literally ship him with the Tesseract (SpaceFrost). Some people ship him with his clones (LokiCest). Some people ship him with Tom (FrostPudding). Yeah sometimes it’s crack ships-but sometimes it isn’t. I quite enjoy the SpaceFrost one and find it amusing-as well as FrostPudding-is some asshole going to come after for me for that? They’re actually popular ships although people usually turn the Tesseract into a person. 😁

Personally, I don’t ship any of the new ships (I’d rather see Loki with someone who doesn’t threaten his life or automatically want something from him; I’m kind of worn out on the enemies to lovers thing) but I really don’t care as long as people aren’t trying to force it on me or force me to say it’s canon. This is literally FrostMaster all over again-which isn’t canon but because it was a popular ship you had militants trying to harass people who said it wasn’t canon. Not everybody ships Loki with an older man who is supposed to control him in some way. If you do that’s fine and if you don’t that’s fine too.

I know a lot of people don’t like the Thorki ship-but I’ll say one thing for those shippers-at least most of the time they stay in their lane, understand that many people don’t appreciate their ship, don’t harass people over it, and tag their stuff. Several of you could stand to learn to do the same. And FYI, even if your ship does become canon that still doesn’t give you the right to harass people who don’t ship it or ship other ships. I’ve seen people saying racist stuff to people who ship Loki and Casey, and Mobius and Renslayer. Like, these are tiny ships and you’re threatened by them?? Your ships are the majority-isn’t that enough? I’ve also seen the some people trying to say that if you don’t ship Lokius you’re homophobic. Of course while there are some asshole homo/biphobes-there’s plenty of other queer people and others who aren’t homo/biphobic and who don’t ship them and some of you need to get that through your heads and stop using our queer identity to prop up your ship. It’s not always about canon though-it’s usually about what’s most popular. Bruce and Natasha was actual canon and I remember people who shipped them getting all kinds of shit from people who shipped a much more popular ship.

In no way am I calling out all shippers who ship these ships-just the militant ones who invade tags and harass people for not shipping their ship or for saying it’s not canon. Y’all getting ridiculous over fictional characters. Seriously, mind your own business and stay in your lane and stop messing with mainstream tags while not including your specific ship tags. I don’t want to look through the Loki series tag and see shippers fighting without these posts being tagged appropriately. It comes across that there’s no reason for you to do this other than spite. You can also tag stuff as “x negative” or “x critical”.

TLDR: Militant shippers (and only those) please stop invading each other‘s tags and stop invading mainstream tags. Tag your stuff and stay in your lane. And remember none of your ships are canon (although that may change but even then don’t harass people) so stop trying to push people into saying they are. Also people are going to ship Loki with all kinds of weird ships- considering his history in both mythology and the comics. If you don’t like it then stay out of the tags and also those of you that ship these ships please tag your stuff. And don’t use things like racism and queerphobia to either support or disparage ships.

[wolfridds]

Ok, hear me out, please, this is a

✨Safe space for Sylki shippers✨

LISTEN- I don’t ship it (for many reasons that don’t matter right now) but I do deeply ADORE THEIR FRIENDSHIP!!

but here’s the thing everyone is entitled in a fandom to their own opinions, I understand why people love these two together and I also strongly know and support why me and so many other fans don’t like them, BUT that doesn’t mean I’m attacking people based on their love for something!

There is so much HATE going around and it’s just- not, good! 😤 Look it’s fine to love a certain ship or even a character as long as you’re not hurting anyone.

I have a much better understanding about why the writers created this type of relationship and let me just say that’s for me to possibly talk about another day.

For now-

Ship on Sylki lovers! I’ll be here crying over Lokius like a bloody child 😁

[littlehollyleaf]

I'm starting to really dislike the Sylvie/Loki romance. Its too fast. Why are they rushing their build up so much they knew they had s2? They are assigning a depth of love to them that isnt earned yet imo. Loki doesnt drive the plot the way Sylvie does; he's running around telling everyone how great Sylvie is. Slyvie doesnt share meaningful interaction with any other Loki, Mobius does. And that interaction is subtle yet powerful just like "thanks for the spark"

I agree re: feeling... uncomfortable with a/the Loki/Sylvie romance.

But ya know, weirdly, I'm actually feeling BETTER about how their relationship is being portrayed after last ep.

Cos... idk... it's probably my ace tendencies skewing my reading, but I felt like they were... almost BACKTRACKING on the romantic angle?

Like, all the convo with the blanket sharing and stuff... ok ok, there's romantic subtext to be read there, but, also... they explicitly QUESTION 'Mobius' theory' about what caused the nexus - explicitly calling into question whether their 'moment' in the previous ep actually WAS romantic, or whether that was just an outsider's (ie. Mobius') mistaken understanding. And, oh, yeah, maybe it's meant to be a cutesy 'they're in love but won't admit it' type thing that's intended to actually EMPHASISE the fact they have romantic feelings for each other... but... MAYBE IT'S NOT?

I mean... a CENTRAL THEME OF THE SHOW has been how the inner truth of things/people is often NOT HOW THEY ARE OUTWARDLY PERCEIVED/PRESENTED AS BEING

...and Sylvie goes on to very specifically say how she's never had a FRIEND before... AND talks about how Mobius 'cares' for Loki...

...then likewise Loki calls Mobius his friend later...

...I just came away feeling like suddenly PLATONIC FRIENDSHIP between all three of them was a STRONGER reading?

...like Loki and Sylvie and Mobius are...something like Thor and the Warriors Three? Or even The Avengers? Like a TEAM. Or a (found) FAMILY? (albeit with romantic subtext between various members, sure - subtext that may or may not be explored/expanded on in the future as their relationships deepen/develop).

Sigh. It's wishful thinking, probably.

But I just... I think it would be NICE. If the ultimate message ended up being 'the power of friendship' - particularly via a SUBVERSION of the typical overly fast m/f romance plot found in so much fiction. Showing that, ACTUALLY, it's NOT always the romantic love of and for someone of the opposite sex that can save/heal/better you - sometimes a FRIEND of the opposite sex can be just as important.

Showing that you don't need a sudden, out of the blue ROMANCE to humanize you and tame any monstrous parts of you (*cough*Nat&Bruce*cough*) - you can tame/control your own dark/monstrous side, providing you have the love and support and aid of friends.

...it's not, TOO out there to think MAYBE the story might be headed that way...is it?

(and I'm saying all this AS a lokius shipper, and someone now flirting with the idea of all 3 of them in a romantic poly OT3 thing :p so, you know, I don't actually hate the IDEA of romance being involved between them in some fashion... it's just that, right now, when it comes to what is written explicitly into the text, it seems to me that leaving out romance altogether would/could actually be the MOST FITTING, and for me personally perhaps even also the most satisfying, option??)

.......also, HOLD UP

*rereads the ask*

THEY KNOW THERE'S S2?

THERE'S A SEASON 2??!

WE KNOW THERE'S A SEASON 2??!

When and where did THIS info drop???

[whogirl42]

Not a Sylki shipper, but can we talk about That Scene?

Like I'm a Lokius shipper and from the first minute of 1x03 I was calling Loki and Sylvie the chaos twins, but I know how to read when a scene is building up to a romantic moment. It's obvious. The camera movement, the music, the acting- it's pretty clear. So when Loki started saying "All I want" I sort of rolled my eyes and waited for him to say some cliche "All I want is you" bullshit.

But he didn't

Instead, what did he say? "All I want is for you to be okay."

Which is just...

That's selfless love. Pure, selfless love. He's not thinking about himself even though he is because she's technically him and so this qualifies as him finally finding self-love but that's for another post or about what he wants. He's not trying to "win" or "gain" her. He just wants her to be okay. Which is the most selfless kind of love there is.

[blackgirlsuperherorants]

With more articulation, I'm ready to talk about why the push for Lokius simply bothers me, and this can be said for other m/m or w/w ships that fans push to be canon so hard just because they ship it.

It's the framing. The framing that if Marvel doesn't do it (or whatever the brand is), it's because homophobia, and if other fans don't like it/ship it, it's because homophobia (even if they ship other queer ships and are queer themselves.) And the biggest problem with that is that it overshadows the REAL issue of lack of queer representation on screen in mainstream nerd media, especially from big things under the Disney umbrella (Marvel and Lucasfilm/Star Wars, especially.)

It makes it bad that your ship isn't canon instead of bad that there haven't been any queer romances on screen in the MCU.

And like, as a writer myself, I find myself dissecting the stories of other media all the time. I can watch an MCU movie or series and pretty much assess what direction the story is going in by the narrative points they're hitting. I knew Sylki was basically gonna happen (even if just a kiss) because narratively, that's what the show was doing as soon as they had that "what is love" conversation on Lamentis-1. It didn't mean I liked it. But I knew it was happening.

Similarly, there's no romantic undertones to Loki and Mobius. None. For Marvel to make them a couple, it would mean they'd be doing it simply because the two present as men and it would make stans happy. And while there's something to be said for fan service, it would be annoying to watch them cram two guys together who aren't romantic in the slightest. I'd much rather see Loki meet some guy and have the same type of undertones they were giving to Sylvie and form a real bond to where the kiss feels earned and warranted. Not just put him with the nearest man because "he gay lol."

And how you guys are claiming it's being queer that makes you want this is beyond me. It's not being queer that makes you want this. I don't want queer characters that fuck everyone of whatever gender(s) they're attracted to even when it doesn't make sense for them to. I want real love stories. I mean, yeah, sometimes we can have a slut character, because that's fun, too, but that's not even what y'all think Lokius is. You seem to want them to be in love. But why? Because he's the first friend Loki made that isn't through Thor?

I hate that, too, because I hate this idea that queer people cannot have friends of their same gender without wanting to fuck them. IDK how y'all are, maybe y'all are like that, but I almost never have wanted to fuck any of my friends. The only few exceptions have been when I tried to befriend someone I had a crush on (in which case, usually the friendship can't work, really, because I have a crush on them.) I also think it's okay if you can have casual sex with friends, or if you have a friendship that develops into romance, but Jesus, do you people not have friends that you don't want to fuck? I am bi, maybe more pan (gender kind of doesn't matter to me, I guess) and I'm friends with people of all kinds of gender identities and like... I love them as people, which is why they're my friends, but I DO NOT want to fuck them. Especially my closest friend. I talked about her, before, here, but she's like my sister. The thought of fucking her is gross, to me. Not because she's gross, but because it feels incestuous.

Loki shouldn't want to fuck Mobius just because they developed a friendship. And that's very much how it's written on the series. They almost dislike each other (or Mobius is at least indifferent to Loki) and then they become friends.

That's not to mention the power dynamic that exists, there. And I know some of y'all are subs, but yeah, it's a bit gross to imply a sexual relationship with Loki's captor.

But on to Sylki. It sucks that I feel like most of y'all hate Sylki because Sylvie is a girl, and not just because it's bad in other ways. Like, the reasons Sylki is bad have less to do with "it should have been Mobius" and more to do with it being a lazy 1980s action movie plot that should have never happened. I'm not as creeped out by the selfcest (as many of you wouldn't have been if she was a he, I'm almost positive), but what's bad about it is that they couldn't have a strong female lead character without her being the love interest of the main guy. She didn't need to be, especially because she was a Loki variant, anyway. There was no need for it to have romantic undertones, and there was no need for them to kiss. It was sexist more than it was homophobic (and I can't help feeling like y'all are kind of being biphobic in this case. Maybe I'll talk about that, later, but yeah.) It was sexist bullshit. And there's valid criticism that Sylvie is underdeveloped. She's just angry and something for Loki to project affection onto.

I was also hoping they'd do a "found family" type of thing with Sylvie and Loki and let her be like the sister he never knew he needed, but no, they had to go trope and make her the love interest. It was lazy and bad and basically went "If Loki girl, main Loki want bone!"

Basically, having the main character fall for a character just because of their proximity and gender is bad and I hate it (and it would have been bad with Mobius, too, but yeah.)

Both the Mobius and the Sylvie thing also feel kind of racist, to me, because the show has prominent Black women who aren't even presented as desirable to Loki. And y'all, of course, ship him with anyone but the Women of Color. Y'all can pull true love with Mobius out of your ass, but he couldn't possibly fall for the Black women. lol.

Anyway. Not every show needs ships, and this show shouldn't have had any. I hate it. It's bad.

I guess on the biphobia front, I have heard some takes that it's not biphobic because Loki being queer in the MCU which hasn't shown any queer relationships, and Loki being the first openly queer character means they shouldn't have shown him with a woman presenting character. Which, I guess I get where you're coming from... but I have also been in fandoms for a long time and I see mostly girls saying this shit, which is what leads me to feel like it's simply jealousy. It happens all the time when a long-beloved single male character/celebrity suddenly starts dating a woman. Everyone hates it. And like, we haven't seen Loki be with ANYONE in the MCU, because mostly he's been doing villainy and his dating life hasn't been relevant. If the demigod says he's bi, he can kiss a woman. Especially a woman version of himself. Like I said, I hate it for other reasons, but pretending it's because he should have kissed Mobius is utterly delusional. He probably shouldn't have kissed anyone. Not in this series. There was no reason for any canon romance, especially because the show has a season 2 and we'll have time to see Loki develop earned, deserved romance with someone.

I'd much rather see them create a character just to be his boyfriend than have y'all push Marvel into making Lokius canon, which is a nonsense ship that only happened because Mobius is the only prominent male-presenting character before we meet the other Lokis.

My sincere wish is for people to remember that their ships are just ships and to enjoy them without getting all self-righteous about it. I TOLD y'all that Lokius wasn't gonna be canon like 4 episodes back, and here y'all are acting shocked and like Marvel took something from you. NOBODY expected y'all to ship Lokius. It's not even queerbait.

You can make clear arguments as to why Sambucky was queerbait. It's there in undertones in the actual series.

You cannot watch Loki and tell me you thought it was queerbait, unless you think men can't have conversations or hug goodbye without being romantically involved. Which means, in my opinion, that you need to learn about healthy masculinity.

Again, this is not a defense of Marvel. They DO need to let characters be queer, for real, and not just by saying " A bit of both". Like, let Loki be queer. Let Deadpool be queer. Let these queer characters be queer on screen. Yes.

But please stop making it about your ship. I'd rather see a flashback of Loki dating a guy and see him kiss someone he loved back on Asgard than watch y'all force Lokius. Because my queer rep is not about your crackship. It really isn't. And the fact that y'all keep calling us homophobic for not liking your ship REALLY needs to be addressed.

Like, when will y'all stop? I got on Stucky shippers about this shit in the past. All of us gay as hell, too, we just don't like YOUR ship. A lot of us like other queer ships. A lot of us like queer ships in other fandoms, too, and even have queer OCs. YOUR ship just ain't it. Stop forcing it. Literally, most of the ship wars between MCU fans have been queer ship vs queer ship, not really queer ship vs straight ship. Like, the number one Stucky rival ship was Stony. Not Steggy. People are not homophobic for not wanting your ship.

Sometimes it's because they ship something else.

And sometimes, like me, it's because they want something to make sense narratively and not happen for the sake of it happening. It's always better writing to have a character meetcute a new love interest than to magically turn a platonic friendship into a romantic relationship. Like, even when the characters are straight. Like, when Moesha dated Hakeem. It was just weird, even if he was kind of a great boyfriend. He was just supposed to be her friend, and people didn't really like it because it didn't fit narratively.

And that's why ships for the most part should be left to fanfiction, with the exception of a few where fans are right to call out the writers for not making it canon because it's clearly bait (like what happened to Destiel shippers. To see Lokius shippers compare themselves to THAT was so ridiculous. Destiel shippers had a decade of evidence only to be let down by a criminally unfair ending. Lokius shippers saw two men have a deep conversation once and lost their minds.)

Anyway, I'm not saying don't ship Lokius. I don't even hate it, really. I just think it obviously shouldn't be canon, and fans pretending like they were robbed of it is ridiculous. Literally, Ao3 exists for this reason. I will never see Steve fuck Sam Wilson, so I wrote it into my fanfic. I am not mad that they didn't actually date in the main MCU storyline.

[discoscoob]

You seem very fair and logical about the ship wars. I am a lesbian sylki shipper. I understood the frustration but chose to enjoy the story for what it is...which is still queer. I was more offended we finally got a lesbian rom com with KStew and the writing was...not great lol. Not to mention, the same rich white families appearing on screen. But that's just it. I'm a lesbian.

I don't fully identify as a woman and I land somewhere on the non binary spectrum but I haven't explored it so I'm pretty clueless about it. I would ship Lokius if Sylvie weren't around but I'm totally in love with Sylvie and want as much screen time of her as possible. My question is do you think the antis have base as far as the gender fluid complaint/trans complaints are concerned? I just want all angles to think more about it lol.

Thank you, I try my best.

I’m aware that there are people genuinely upset by the representation or lack thereof in the Loki series and their feelings are valid as long as they themselves are not encouraging biphobia or transphobia.

The show itself never promised us that there would be a same sex romance, that was written in an article by Pink News without any reliable source but I do believe they hyped up the genderfluid representation a bit too much for what it actually was in the end, which was just a single word on a profile.

How this relates to sylki as a ship, that’s where I struggle to understand the criticisms. I myself identify as bisexual and gender nonconforming, I’ve seen people say that sylki is bad representation because cis people say that genderfluid people should just date themselves and I’m not disputing that has ever been said, it’s just something I have yet to come across someone actually saying.

We have to remember that cis people watching the show, particularly uneducated cis people, aren’t looking at Loki as a walking talking label for bisexuality and genderfluidity and attaching everything he does within the show as representations for those identities, Loki isn’t even canonically labelled as either within the show itself, (he says he has experience with multiple genders but he doesn’t specify a label and his file states ‘fluid’ under his sex not gender.)

I’m aware Loki is canonically bisexual/pansexual and genderfluid in the comics and I think that they are both represented rather well in the comics as Loki is shown shapeshifting between different bodies to represent different genders, but let’s not forget that this isn’t possible in real life, genderfluid people in real life aren’t shapeshifters they can’t literally transform their bodies yet they’re still valid genderfluid people, so why isn’t Loki without his shapeshifting? It’s just a thought.

To me, Sylvie being a woman or female presenting doesn’t represent Loki’s feminine form or his genderfluidity, she is just a variant of himself who happens to be female.

Any genderfluid representation for Loki for me would have to come from himself, not another person. That’s why I don’t feel like their relationship is any form of genderfluid representation because it just isn’t.

I hope this makes sense.

[aussie-tea]

so I was watching Loki not looking at social media and it did not occur to me to ship loki and mobius at all. like AT ALL. this was around ep 2. then I happened to look on the internet and saw the madness.... found it incredibly amusing because its owen wilson (lol) and now, a monthish later, I am shipping it but also still amused because its still owen wilson. does this help

Yeah! I just got another ask talking about how it’s fun to ship Mobius and Loki. (Because Owen is the best🤣)

I totally get this point of view. I’m mainly trying to look at it from a narrative point of view. Which I don’t really get since, even without the writers pushing a certain narrative, I can’t really see anything romantic about Mobius and Loki’s characters.

But for laughs and giggles I definitely can. But I’m still more a platonic lokius shipper.