#in 2015 and 2016 seb was better

[vsyrworld]

get to know my favorite driver's ship

this was made by me and for me and i wrote fanfic about them!!!

(fyi; i started watching f1 in 2015 so ofc you guys KNOW what my FIRST and ULTIMATE ship)

(older f1 ships: )

Brocedes :D (childhood friends, teammates, rivals, anything but a lover - crofty 2021)

OH COME ON. I will write an essay about their history. BUT ANYWAY, despite their toxic year in 2015/2016, I still adore how young nico and lewis friendship or whatever they had in Greece back then and I still keep this ship alive until the 2021 season. Their battle on the track was BEYOND TOXIC, yet their battle off the track (media drama) is HILLAARIOUS. How come Lewis accidentally spills out, the name that shouldn't be spoken for Half of DECADE. God both of them are dramas king. NICO PODCAST omg the talk with Alain prost and they compared his vs Senna battle with HIS AND Lewis's battle PLUS when Nico's storytelling his "friendship" history in ITALY at the SPONSOR EVENTS *CRIED* and lewis always mentioned how he loves ice cream and do cheating day in imola and monza BECAUSE IT WAS NICO WHO INTRODUCE THE FOOD THERE. ugh I hate and love them at the same time. (I do include some Seb/NICO too because I like see Lewis getting rilled up)

2. Kimi and Seb (I ADORE THIS A LOT)

my calm and serenity wise iconic ferrari couple. I feel like Kimi was the rock ice and water for Seb to prevent him from burnout because of ferrari. during 2017-2018, Seb pushed hard (same like Charles) and yet the car reliability fuck his championship standing. and kimi (--kimi was the last ferrari champion hiks) kimi just so attentive to seb and I genuinely like both of them being rebels to whole ferrari tradition (like they don't do rollercoaster thingy, they DON'T master Italian, they just become their self and being so comfortable in their own bubble, fuck world). I had noticed also Seb (and Gio) is the only teammate that can make Kimi laugh. I just super super adore them!

3. Maxiel (TRADITIONALSHIP! I REFUSE OTHER SHIP FOR MAX BESIDE DANIEL. I REFUSE!)

ugh should I explain them? THE CHAOTIC GAYEST ENERGY IN WHOLEEE 2016 GRIDS COME ON. I love how Daniel basically took young rookie Max under his arm and just had fun on and off the track with It? The biggest flop was when Max was just so hotheaded and they crashed in Baku. I thought their relationship gonna be stranded but GUESS WHAT? MAXIEL IS STILL ALIVE UNTIL NOW HELLO? and their relationship is so real not only for the camera but also out the camera. The other highlight moment is when Max is already 'too big' daniel really steps down from RBR because he knows, Max will outshine him, and he knows (what he learned from brocedes too) that it's better to go the other way.

(newer)

4. Dando (COMFORT SHIIP Not romantically also)

I thought daniel was max soulmate but LANDO excuse me? They can share daniel If they want. i just love how lando becomes so silly and blushes like school teenager around Daniel. i love how they INFLUENCE each other. I think because I feel nostalgic with them because they really similar with Maxiel in 2017 era, just one season before Daniel goes to renault, Maxiel was strained on thin paper. Dando other hands, well Daniel mostly, struggled in McLaren (with the papaya fans also still adore Carlos that time and refuse to let go him) plus Lando was shining bright just like Max 2016. Again, daniel he stepped OUT (this time). I guess, that similarity made me miss maxiel too.

5. last one C2 (Charlos) gosh, please!! ultimate!!!

loving and adoring them was expected though. It wasn't because they're both handsome (I already know Carlos was goofy ever since his Renault era so I never consider him as a handsome man) BUT DANG BOY, RED ON CARLOS WAS SOMETHING ELSE? RED ON CARLOS, BLACK ON CARLOS WAS SAKDAJSKDFHLKJSAFHKJAF.

-- okay back to the c2. It was a slow build okay? I realized that they are special during Carlos's first podium, Monaco 2021. Charles WAS LIKE ME. Blushing giggling, shy gazes toward Carlos. they are so endearing. Both of them are the victims of the Ferrari team. But I think they both understand each burden (Charles being the predestinated one, and Carlos had to prove his talent bcs he is a two times world champion son) plus, the way Ferrari screwed Charles in 2019. The team was cracked but with Carlos, I didn't expect this cursed team is heal :"D (Crying) and Charles become more relaxed, more enjoyed, even his coping mechanism is with laughter and Carlos just matches his energy. Idk , they gave me... a relationship through ups and downs.

and I realized there are so many people trying to pit them against each other, their fans are constantly arguing about who is the best and better driver, always dragging one of them down, but guess what is Carlos and Charles's response? it's completely differs from real life. They knew and fucking see it their fans tension. Carlos's anger to the Spanish media has already proven enough he had enough of these things. Charles also said in an interview that "what he saw about him and Carlos is nowhere true". they are the best PR relationship couple out there, but I also can see a genuine, how they know each other so weell. How Charles kept the football game updated just because of Carlos, how Carlos knows his favorite food, how they had their own internal jokes,

they are both soo lowkey on the camera during and outside the race. and I think that Is why people never hype them like carlando or everyone's favorite childhood rival to lovers lesttapen. And I thought they didn't really hang out with each other that much but WHAT WAS THAT SUMMER BREAK? HUH? YOU IN MALORCA AND WENT TO SOUTHERN FRENCH? What were the matching Instagram feeds color and aesthetic at New York? WHAT WAS THE THING ABOUT PASTA CARBONARA UN LUNGA NON PENNE? WHAT WAS THAT THING CHARLES SLEPT ON THE FLOOR just to accompany Carlos watching World Cup? The dolomites? The Sardinia?

there are soo many thing that they keep it so low-profile and under camera, and yet their conversation is so domestic.

[formulaocean]

Just some thoughts on almost driver team pairings and the potential butterfly effects from each, all very much AU.

Lewis Hamilton decided Mercedes was just too big a risk from McLaren in 2013. This resulted in their second choice (Hulk) joining Nico Rosberg instead, both giving Hulk podiums and wins and giving Rosberg the 2014 championship a couple years ahead of schedule. Maybe Lewis as Niki Lauda’s number 1 choice in a fading McLaren still joins Mercedes in 2015 but he’s joining a team where Nico is their most recent champion and as such their competition over the next few years is less resentful and Nico has the confidence to fight without mind games . In short brocedes but they were both champions before becoming teammates and it changes everything.

Carrying on from this thought in normal 2016 Nico Rosberg tells Toto he’s retiring at the end of the season regardless of the outcome far earlier than he actually does and they do manage to sign Hulk before he signs with Renault again ending his podium drought.

Toto gets his wish and when Valteri is struggling in 2018 on his one year contracts he actually does manage to sign Max Verstappen from 2019. Does this mean there’s a Max v Lewis championship battle ahead of schedule? I can definitely see it for 2020 in the HAM-BOT-VER podium era as well as 2021 of course. Knock on effects involve Daniel Ricciardo staying on at Red Bull and although I can’t see him beating Lewis or Max in 2021 the dominance of the car in 2022/3 may have made him a world champion if losing his edge was a result of his McLaren days rather than a natural progression. If it was a natural progression it is also more likely that Charles could have had a proper shot at the championship in 2022 as he did beat Checo (barely) even with Ferrari being Ferrari that year and it would be interesting to see how dominant Red Bull would have been in 2023 potentially without a driver that’s 15 seconds ahead- I can see multiple race winners for a start even if they get the championship.

A long shot that would likely never have happened but Sebastian Vettel returns to Red Bull in 2021. Ferrari drops him early on in 2020 (let’s say Checo never won that glorious race and he stays on at what becomes Aston Martin for a straightforward swap) and Red Bull was very much looking for a more experienced driver and what’s a better storyline than having Seb return to partner Max? This has ramifications of if Seb got his edge back and it was a three way title fight in 2021 plus he stays longer in the sport with a fast car, or if he was more a Checo/Valteri figure but managed to take valuable points off Lewis (let’s say Silverstone) for a less controversial end to the championship. You also get more of a relationship between Max and Seb instead of just parallels and likely some weirdness from Charles about that too. It’s definitely a bit of a middle finger to Ferrari as well.

The Ferrari Driver Academy does the sensible thing and does not listen to Haas about wanting German sponsorship. Thus Mick goes to partner Kimi at Alfa Romeo instead and gets a more functional team to develop in. Would definitely be curious to see if that would have made a difference!

Ron Dennis does not put a rookie in the fastest car on the grid but still speed runs his progression. As such Fernando gets his third world championship and Lewis still gets his a year later (sorry Kimi).

Oscar Piastri does in fact go to Alpine. This could mean Daniel Ricciardo stays on another year at McLaren with no broken contract when the car actually does get fast (would be interesting to see if he could make that work or not) and also that they might have a spare seat in 2025 where they would court one of their favourite sons for a Carlando reunion in a McLaren that could potentially fight Ferrari long term. Alternatively Alpine is breaking apart at the seems and Mark Webber still does his a plus managing and gets Oscar out of there for 2024 anyway. For 2023 it would mean that Pierre Gasly stays on at Alpha Tauri and that whole mess of Alpha Tauri musical chairs is avoided.

BONUS. Honda pushes for Max to join Aston Martin in 2026 just as he’s potentially looking for an out from Red Bull amidst new engine regulations and an uncomfortable environment. We know they want to work with Max again already. There may not be a championship fight but we do get Alonso and Max as a chaotic and sensational teammate pairing doing more than the car is capable of and a team where all drivers, manufacturers, and financial backers are properly pushing in the right direction. Or maybe he joins after Fernando takes a step away from driving and is in the back room pulling in those points with Lance still around.

BONUS. I just like to think of the pure chaos that would be a George and Max teammate pairing that is not going to happen but would be pure gold. Max gets infinitely annoyed at Mercedes for not knowing how to build a car but has enough experience fighting for wins and podiums in previous not too competitive Red Bull cars that he makes the best of it but George makes it very very hard at times and he is so not used to a teammate that won’t just get out of his way at this point that the “princess dickhead” tiffs become very common. George has a bunch of resentment that he’s not treated as first driver even now and from his side he’s not about to let Max pass just because he’s Max Verstappen and it’s just very funny to watch. Alternatively (in very much crack territory here) Horner has enough of Toto posturing about Max and signs Checo for one more year before stealing George in 2026. Toto shows up for a duel at dawn.

[summerblueringo]

Ferrari-Raikkonen agreement and Vettel gives his blessing to the choice

The [Prancing] Horse announces the signing for 2016 in advance. Arrivabene: “Stability wins. Now repay us.” The Finn: “I’m ending my career at Maranello.”

Some saw it as a done deal. It had even been defined as “a business for the quoting of Ferrari in Wall Street.” And yet it has always been clear that Valtteri Bottas’ landing in red was anything but simple: the 20 million dollars requested by Williams to release him from an already-signed option danced around. Thus in the end Bottas will not drive for the Horse. Kimi Raikkonen will remain at Maranello next year as well. Yesterday Ferrari caught everyone by surprise with the official announcement. An early move, perhaps to avoid other speculations, since in F1 market games are done in the summer, but then the announcements usually straddle the Italian GP at Monza. Raikkonen’s signing instead happened much earlier, probably the day after the Hungarian GP, beautiful and unfortunate for the Finn.

STABILITY It was understood that Raikkonen’s confirmation was likely, although not certain. The team principal Maurizio Arrivabene never alienated him, trying at most to keep him on his toes to push him into giving his best. Then Sebastian Vettel has always shown a shameless cheering for his teammate, with whom he shares a great friendship. And the technical director James Allison hasn’t pushed against it, despite Raikkonen’s difficulty in adapting to the car or perhaps even because of it. Did it weigh in Kimi’s favour that there was also an assessment of the causes of apparently inexplicable incidents like the tailspin at the hairpin in Canada or the one on the straight in Zeltweg? “We are convinced that Kimi’s confirmation will contribute to give the team stability, counting also on the excellent relationship that binds him to Seb—” Arrivabene comments— “It’s a show of trust on our part which we hope is repaid.”

VERSTAPPEN & CO The fact remains that something must have been unlocked in the last month, bringing about the positive result of the renewal talks and thus the signing. In fact Ferrari had contacted many drivers: not just Bottas, for whom at the end a convenient financial mediation was not achieved with Williams, but also Nico Hulkenberg, Jenson Button and above all Daniel Ricciardo, bound by a long-term contract with Red Bull. Even the young phenomenon Max Verstappen was among the targets: Ferrari tried to immediately snatch him from Helmut Marko, but the baby figlio d’arte* has a contract for 2016 as well that he cannot get out of, so the talk is postponed to 2017 when there will be clauses to exploit. With this (more or less credible) shortlist of candidates, the red [team] could have waited for at least Spa-Francorchamps and Monza, two races which usually change the outcome of the championship and the fate of the drivers, before confirming Raikkonen. But no.

RENEGOTIATION? The acceleration, more than for a lack of alternatives (in the end neither Kimi had them), could therefore be connected to the renegotiation of Raikkonen’s contract, who returned to Ferrari last year with a 2-year contract (2014-2015) which foresaw an option for 2016. It is possible that the Horse managed to not consider that clause, signed when Montezemolo and Domenicali were still at the helm, and discussed Raikkonen’s engagement on other bases. Maybe with a reduction of the fixed part of his salary and an increase of the bonuses connected to results. So that Kimi, currently being paid 11 million euros excluding bonuses, will earn in proportion to the performance he offers next year. Hoping that it's better than the single podium (the second place in Bahrain this year) obtained so far after his return. “Staying at Ferrari for another season means that the dream goes on. For me this is like a family and it is with this team that I want to end my career,” said the 35-year-old Finn yesterday via the press release distributed by the Horse.

NURSERY NO Now it’s up to Kimi, like Arrivabene emphasised, to repay that trust. Already starting with the GP this Sunday in Spa, promised land of the 2007 Ferrari world champion, who has won four times in Belgium: twice with McLaren and twice in his first life at Maranello. We’ll see. There remains however the mourning for a Ferrari that once again does not “risk” and makes a convenient choice, refusing for example to launch a youngster from its nursery (Marciello or Fuoco) next to super Vettel and even going to look for the competition’s foreign talent (Verstappen.) The new management, it is evident, prioritises making a winning car and no longer believes in the project of the Academy of Maranello, whose future at this point seems scratched.

*[A/N: figlio d'arte = someone who's in the same profession as their parents]

[effervescentdragon]

About Ferrari being the anti hero, did we ever get Niki Lauda’s reaction to them messing up? Or was it not as out in the open in the Prost and later Alonso days? Would be interesting to hear him comment on what happened to his team.

At this point Ferrari* is Haas with money.

*the strategy team, not the excellent drivers

2014

2015

Rough translation: "What is Mercedes supposed to do when Ferrari basically throws spaghetti on the road and can't put their car on the track properly, is the tone thats the Mercedes board chairman takes about Mercedes dominance." (anyone w better German pls chime in)

However, he did praise Seb especially - 2017; 2016 ; 2015; 2014;

and my favourite in 2018:

[vro0m]

2015 season summary

FINALLY! Sorry this took so long, but as you know I was drowning in classes and thesis writing. Now that it’s done let’s get back to it, starting with the 2015 season summary.

Winning his second title really put Lewis at ease at Mercedes. He’s relaxed, he’s comfortable, he’s confident. He turned 30 during the break. His relationship with Nicole finally ended for good. He talks about growing up, enjoying every day. He’s doing even more beside racing than before (and yes, it starts discourse again). In particular in the first half of the season there’s also a recurrent theme of him wanting to be a team leader (but maybe he also means first driver, he is out of a contract at the end of the year after all).

Lewis is maturing for sure, but he’s not fully grown yet. There’s no big drama during the year, though. Nico is unhappy with Lewis in China and then there’s a couple of arguably aggressive starts in Japan and in the USA. Things are pretty chill overall. Mercedes is dominating (except for that horrible mistake in Monaco and the struggle in Singapore) although Ferrari comes through here and there. And in the team, Lewis is on top. Easily. 11 poles, 10 wins.

But 2015 might just be the eye of the storm between two spicy seasons. Nico is on pole for the last 6 races, and although he’s only able to convert them into wins once Lewis has won his third title, the shift is palpable. As soon as he feels it, Lewis' attitude changes as well. He’s less positive, more defensive. As I was saying he’s not there yet. Maybe he just can’t be wise in the face of Nico. Maybe these two just bring the worst out of each other and that’s all there can be. (After all Nico also showed he can’t take the high road either with cap gate.) At the end of the year, Lewis shields himself from the questions with his third title (“I think being world champion sounds a lot better than winning the race.”), but that won’t work anymore once the next season starts 👀

Other important events of 2015 are the RBR - Renault engine issue, and also Max’s F1 debuts. Everybody is already adamant he’ll win a championship someday and indeed, he is very impressive.

Now let’s see if the storm indeed resumed in 2016 (but yes. yes it did. we all know it did.)

Let’s talk numbers : so far, I’ve completed 52.5% of my rewatch. In total, I’ve made 1,558 GIFs to illustrate it.

Here’s a list of the 2015 GPs with a quick summary and the link to the actual recap if you wanna read it or take a look at the GIFs I made :

1. Australian GP : 2015 season context. First season at Ferrari for Seb and Alonso went back to McLaren. Also Max’s first season. Loads of messy stuff happening in the pre-season / first GP weekend. Lewis interview. Lewis pole. Lewis win. Extremely boring race. Seb making fun of Nico.

2. Malaysian GP : Race n°150! Wet quali + controversy. Lewis pole. Natural vs. analytical driver rant. Lewis P2. (Bonus : “good boy, good boy” - the famous sewis podium moment - pegging Hamilton)

3. Chinese GP : Lewis pole again. Eventful race. Lewis win. Brocedes drama. (Bonus : Lewis and Nico’s postrace interviews)

4. Bahrain GP : Lewis pole. Nico interview. Lewis win. Stressful ending. Baseball celebration. (Bonus I found later on : joint Sewis interview)

5. Spanish GP : There’s a whole “Lewis is too distracted” thing again ugh. Bad race start. Bad pit stop. Moody Lewis. Several pit stop dramas. Lewis P2, his 75th podium.

6. Monaco GP : Lewis pole. Hill has to swallow his words about him being too distracted. Great Lewis x Thierry Henry segment. Big crash then terrible strategy decision. P3.

7. Canadian GP : Lewis pole. Boring first half then slightly less. Lewis win. Bono lost his dad.

8. Austrian GP : Lewis pole. Bad start. A terrible scary crash. Some stupid mistake. P2.

9. British GP : Lewis pole (yes, still). Lewis drifting with Johnny segment. Horrible start but good race. Lewis win. He is absolutely buzzing.

10. Hungarian GP : Lewis pole. Minute of silence for Jules. Terrible start. Suspenseful but bad race. Lewis P6. (Bonus : “you’re very quiet Bono”)

11. Belgian GP : Lewis pole, for a change. Lewis win. The crowd chanting his name. Talking about retirement. Finally admits he might win the title again.

12. Italian GP : Bleached blond Lewis! And guess what? On pole. Lewis interview. Rowing competition. Weird, weird end. Lewis win. Nice cooldown room / podium.

13. Singapore GP : Lewis surprisingly not on pole! Mercedes is struggling. DNF. Also someone is walking on the track? (Bonus : Seb being a flirt)

14. Japanese GP : Nico pole + interview. Aggressive start. Alonso’s “GP2 engine!” Kinda boring race. Lewis win. Matches Senna’s record. Nice sewis podium.

15. Russian GP : Nico pole. Briatore talking about Lewis. Crash start. Another bad crash. Lewis is a good man. Lewins win. Gayest sewis scene I’ve seen so far. Ferraris getting strong. It finally truly dawns on him he might win a title again. Controversial WCC decider. 

16. US GP (part 1 - part 2 - part 3) : Wet quali, Nico pole. Starting on inters. Aggressive start again. Loads of issues. Good race! WDC decider! Famous cap controversy. Nice Niki interview and hug. “Hopefully he’s proud.”

17. Mexican GP : Nico pole again. Rock star racing driver. Mansell x Lewis interview. Lewis not happy with decisions. Lewis P2.

18. Brazilian GP : Nico pole. Alonso meme weekend. Nico interview, some stuff about their rivalry. Boring af. Lewis P2. Different strategy discourse.

19. Abu Dhabi GP : And another Nico pole. Lewis interview. Max interview. Max VS. Lewis debut rant. Slight engine modes controversy. Lewis P2. Lovely podium moment with the Merc rep. Weird press conference. Weird Lewis fancam.

[danthropologie]

I wasn't around but why are people saying its a bad idea for daniel to go back to rbr? They're saying its bc he left bc he didn't want to be a 2nd driver?

this whole fucking narrative is straight up stupid if you ask me, so disclaimer: everything that follows will be coming from that perspective.

brief daniel at rbr synopsis: he was pulled up from toro rosso to join red bull in 2014. he was teammates with seb, who had just come off winning 4 world championships back to back (to back to back), and not only was competitive but BEAT seb in the wdc that year, 3rd to seb's 5th.

fast forward to 2016, they pull up max from toro rosso 5 races into the season. max is literally a child, 18 years old. that very first race max is with the team, daniel out-qualifies him (3rd to max's 4th), but ends up being put on the worse strategy, which leaves daniel in 4th place while max wins. it's obviously massive news because max is the youngest winner ever, it's his first race with the team, and is basically used to prove he's the second coming of christ on wheels. from there, there's just kind of a general feeling and consensus that max is the future of the team.

obviously daniel wants priority, feels like he's earned it, as any driver would, especially when he continues to beat and be neck-and-neck competitive with max over the next few seasons. so when rumors started happening about daniel leaving red bull, the overriding narrative—and the narrative that has lived on since—is that he was running from a fight. he wanted to be number one driver, he didn't want to be number two to max, and red bull wasn't willing to give him that, so he walked.

now what's NOT talked about is the fact that red bull was planning to move to honda engines the next year, and honda's previous foray into f1 had been an abysmal failure with mclaren (2015-2017, so literally had JUST happened too). there was also the fact that simon rennie, his engineer for years upon years, and a few other key people on his team were stepping back or moving to jobs at the factory. it's portrayed as if his move from red bull was because of this One Specific Thing, and yes, maybe that WAS the biggest factor idk, but it wasn't the only factor.

so looking at these rumors now, it seems like there's a tendency for people to boil it down to a very simple "he left because he didn't want to be 2nd driver, now he's coming back to be 3rd driver lmao" or act like because he left over priority disputes, he would nEVER (or should never) ~lower himself going back without guarantee of priority, basically ignoring everything that's happened since and how the situations are COMPLETELY different.

sure, on some level there's a bit of pride swallowing that would need to be done in order to go back to a team that he originally left in hopes of finding bigger and better things, but at the same time, these past few years have been rough. he was brilliant at renault, he had some of his best drives with them and showed he has what it takes to be a champion, but the team and the car were never going to surpass the glass ceiling of the midfield. and despite his win last year and the occasional flashes of brilliance, mclaren overall has been a shitshow, tho obviously not all from his own doing. red bull has really been the only place where the machinery and support they were giving him as a team came close to matching the level of talent and skill he was bringing to the track each week, and if he has a shot at having that back, who wouldn't take it after how awful the past few years have been for him.

and on top of that, there's also personal connections there too. he drove christian to his wedding for god's sake! he spent summer break in 2020 with max! they aren't just coworkers, they're people that genuinely care about him and want to see him succeed. at the end of the day, it's obviously still a sport and a business and depends entirely on the results he'd be able to bring them, but as it stands now, they seem to still see him for what he could (and probably should!) have been as a competitor, rather than just what he can bring them in terms of monetary value

[mistressemmedi]

Dumb question bc I'm new to f1 but can you give me a rundown of how Daniil was fucked over by rb?

It seems like he was treated pretty similarly (I.e. like shit) to Alex and Pierre?

Saw your reply to another ask and was curious!

I can't believe we've reached a point in the f1blr ecosystem where new members have no idea what the Demotion™ is 😂

Dany was the one that set the precedent for what happened to Alex and Pierre.

Thing is that unlike Alex and Pierre, Daniil had achieved podium finishes with RBR and actually beat his teammate (Ricciardo) in the points standings in 2015. He wasn't wildly underperforming compared to Dan.

In 2016 he got a podium in China, had the infamous crash with Seb in Russia (his home race 💀) and was demoted the day (? Or closely after then) after the Russian race. (Fun tidbit of the demotion - Dany received the call from Marko while he was watching Game of Thrones). Add insult to injury, when he was demoted to Toro Rosso they gave him all new (and relatively inexperienced) engineers as there was a clean up on what was Max's side of the garage (see my previous ask re: the civil war brewing at Toro Rosso). The combo of new team + demotion + things not working out at STR culminated in that godawful qualifying session in Germany.

Anyways, things looked a bit better (him vs Verstappen in Singapore was so 🥵) but then 2017 came around and. Well. We saw how that ended 💀 (spoiler alert: they didn't even let him finish the season).

[myimaginarywonderland]

I honestly don't know why anyone would want anyone to go up against Max .

I have seen people make that argument that Daniel and Daniil got a chance at RedBull to challenge a No. 1 driver but people are completely ignoring the context to this.

First off all Daniel got the opportunity because RedBull needed a driver after Webber announced his retirment. Not to dismiss Daniel but it wasn't like he got a chance unlike the odds, this was literally a logical choice. And while he beat Seb, it was never expected of him to be the No. 1 because RedBull was sure Seb would stick with them for more seasons. They probably saw this as a bad season but they never planned to give Seb's spot to Daniel because they didn't believe he would leave for Ferrari which immediately brings us to Daniil.

Anyone that has done research knows Daniil was never supposed to move up and that actually JEV should have gotten that RedBull seat but he didn't because of his hospitalization and the fact that he challenged Marko in a way. Not to mention there was the whole debacle of Daniil being Russian at that time helping with a Russian GP that has been brought up.

And if you want to talk about challenging a driver maybe we should talk about how even though Daniil was objectively better in 2015 and scored their first podium in 2016 he still was the one that was sacked for Verstappen.

The honest reality was that Seb was planned to stay longer and then he was supposed to be replaced by Verstappen a long time ago. RedBull was pushing for Verstappen from the beginning and probably would have put him in that car earlier but they searched for a justification which they found with Daniil's collisions and racing style. He was bound to be booted from the beginning because Ricciardo was just to more hyped driver which meant they couldn't drop him.

I am not blaming this on Max but realistically Daniil never had a fighting chance.

Daniel meanwhile yes beat Seb but was shown up from Max since the beginning and it was clear that there wasn't a fighting chance merely because Max was on it from the moment he went into RedBull.

Daniel never had a fighting chance against Max because Max is simply a greater driver. He was like 50 points of with less races and more DNFs as a rookie in that car.

Daniel technically beat Max if we look at points but no one believes that because Max got more unlucky and was arguably hella impressive.

Daniel and Daniil were both just seat warmers until Max arrived. RedBull never believed Seb would leave and if he hadn't there is no doubt in my mind that Daniil never would have had a chance and that Daniel would have just been a seat warmer until Max. They were never given a chance because it was clear RB wasn't prepared to lose Seb and they were planning Max's seat since even before Max got into F1. They were never supposed to have fighting chance and in a way they hadn't. Daniil was screwed from the start and Daniel was literally shown up by Max from the moment he arrived.

I do not meant to discredit Charles but without a doubt he wouldn't beat Max. Max was a child prodigy who literally from the moment he stepped into a car was a podium contender. Hell, in the season Nico beat Lewis people still found Max more impressive than Nico. There is only on driver that has as impressive of a junior/Carting career as Max and that is Lewis.

Charles is a great driver but he is nowhere near Max level. He still makes mistakes, is still coming to terms with his driving style in a way which you see with him not fully knowing limits. Max has been flawless this and last year even if you don't like him. Charles struggles with many things, the biggest one being his team but he also isn't flawless like we have seen with Max.

We could talk about Lando who we have all seen suggested. While I do think Lando is a great driver, again, I think people underrate how he has never had a challenging team-mate truly. Carlos was a midfield driver, Ricciardo got beat by Lando since he came into McLaren. Oscar is the first challenge Lando truly had but he is still a rookie yet we are already seeing how close he is. We also saw how in 2021 he still made mistakes.

Both Charles and Lando are still inexperienced in a way that Max was never allowed to be which is something I think many people don't understand.

When Max was up against his rookie team-mate, Sainz, he beat him by nearly 3× as much points.

When Max came into RB he immediately was on podium course and won the race. That season he was voted the best driver over the literal champion and was again with less experience and more DNFs just a bit of his team-mate who had two years experience in that team.

In 2017, in the third best car, with more DNFs he was once again just 40 points off his team-mate. He won 2 races which is more than his team-mate and Kimi, who had a faster car with that Ferrari, combined. He won nearly as much as Bottas who was on a Mercedes.

In 2018, Max would have been third, over not only his team-mate but also the two drivers in the faster cars. Max once again won more races then Kimi in the fucking Ferrari. He was nearly as much on the podium as Kimi too. The only drivers who he didn't manage to beat where the world champions fighting for the title.

In 2019, he finally was third behind the Mercedes.

In 2020, Max nearly was second. The only reason he probably didn't beat Val is because of his DNFs.

I won't talk about 2021 but I think people don't understand how much pressure Max has been under since he came into the sport. From his first season with Torro Rosso it was clear he would be the RB driver. And I think since 2018, hell probably even earlier, Max only comparison and rival eventhough they weren't fighting was Lewis. The only one who even had a career close to Max was Lewis and Lewis is literally one of the greats. Max was the benchmark because everyone knew Lewis was unreachable and expect Seb, no one was even be expected to challenge Lewis. Let me make it clear that in 2020, people were supposed that Max didn't beat Valtteri eventhough Val clearly had the better car.

In 2018 when Seb/Lewis were in a championship fight with clearly better cars, the third faster was still Max. Hell, if they weren't winning no one was looking at their teammates but everyone would assume Max would win the race.

In 2017 nearly won as much races as the one of the guys from the fastet team, do you understand that?

This man was under so much pressure because he literally showed his talent every fucking season. He only finished once out of the points in his entire RedBull years if we are excluding DNFs (for me any driver that didn't finish a race is a DNF even if it's the last lap.) Do you know how insane that is?

I am not even a Verstappen fan but Max was on an entire differently league from the moment he stepped into F1 and it was never because of the car.

Charles and Lando may be great driver but they are nowhere near the talent and now also accomplished driver that Max is.

He literally had 2021 to grow and develope from admist his challenges. I don't like to talk about that season but if anything it was probably the point where the Max we see now was created just like 2016 probably was the point which made the incredible beast of a driver that Lewis is.

Neither Charles, nor Lando, nor George would ever beat current Max.

Putting anyone up against him from the young drivers is setting them up for failure because since 2019 Max biggest comparison has literally been Lewis Hamilton. Max was the best after Lewis. He was the one that came behind, hell in 2020 Valtteri was not even considered competition against them.

No other of the young drivers has proven themselves the way Max has and no other of the drivers have had to measure up to a literal 7x WDC.

There are exactly two people on the grid who might challenge Max and even then, I truly think Lewis would be the only competition for him because to be honest it's mostly been Lewis and Max since 2018 up until last year if you really look at it.

I may not like Max but to deny the incredible career that he has had or imply that he would under threat by anyone else other than Lewis and maybe Nando is just silly.

The younger drivers may be great but none of them had to grow like Max did or to measure up to the challenge of beating one of the greats.

[singaporesainz]

hi, brake check anon here.

i will say as a disclaimer that i’m not as familiar with lewis’ earlier career since i haven’t gone back to watch a lot of the races (particularly pre-2016) so i don’t have a lot to say about his consistency in terms of giving examples of what went wrong and where and why.

however i will say that w nico’s 7 win streak, since that was brought up, it was actually done across two seasons rather than having a one season domination like seb, michael and max have done (nico won 3 races in a row at the end of 2015 and then 4 races in a row at the beginning of 2016). so i think it’s a little unfair to be saying that lewis wasn’t as consistent across a season as nico when that isn’t exactly the case, 4 wins in a row in one season for nico vs 5 wins in a row for lewis in one season during their time together at mercedes is pretty on par imo. i will also say, as a bit of a hot take, that nico is sometimes underrated in terms of skill and where he ranks among drivers. while he isn’t one of the generational talents, he also definitely wasn’t a second driver and he definitely gave lewis a challenge while they were teammates

for that one anon (consistency anon, perhaps) here is a better response than i could ever come up with.

also thanks for this because your ask also gives me more context hahah

[kimisicecream]

The most impressive thing Ferrari has ever done is somehow convince the entire world of F1 that Kimi Räikkönen is the only driver they ever did right by when in reality they did him so fucking wrong.

[4405x]

Top 5 sewis moments according to you

i'm putting baku 2017 and canada 2019 together as winners!! i can't think of sewis without the drama of these two races and the way it brought them closer in the end. i'm more than sure these circumstances would have ended friendships and relationships for other drivers but SOMEHOW for them it worked better than therapy.

lewis winning his 5th title and seb whispering to him "don't let off i need you fighting with me next year" while lewis was showing off seb to an entire crowd and seb was only looking at lewis proudly.

malaysia 2015. seb's first win with ferrari. seb so weak in the knees that he had to sit down on the podium the entire time. and lewis sat next to him , looking so proud. (thank u for giffing this beautiful moment🫶🏻)

seb kneeling next to lewis' car in turkey 2020 and telling him hes making history, that he's the greatest of our generation etc. etc. AND a parallel would be abu dabhi 2021 when lewis stayed inside the car and you can see seb walking around a few times probably meaning to comfort lewis but he decides not to so he goes to talk with angela instead. :((

this is a very small one but it's from a 2016 drivers parade i think when lewis comes to sit next to seb instead of sitting next to nico. seb noticed it earlier and he scoots over for lewis to come snuggle beside. :')

[formula-what]

Brocedes time line for a very patient anon

Lewis quotes in orange, Nico quotes in pink, everyone else is blue.

okay first some background knowledge:

Nico is rich as fuck. only child, born in Germany, brought up in Monaco. son of world champion Keke Rosberg

Lewis was born on a council estate in Stevenage and his dad had to work multiple jobs for him to start karting

Honestly I think the difference in their backgrounds is one of the things that pushed them together, they were both isolated from the rest of the kids, but I’m keeping this purely facts rather than speculation.

2000

They’re both 15 years old and are karting teammates for MBB (Mercedes Benz McLaren) in Formula A

Robert Kubica: “there was always competition. But they didn’t fight. It was friendly competition. There was always laughing afterwards.” // “they would even have races to eat pizza”

They often shared hotel rooms at the races which was a “scene of many wrestling matches between them”

Dino Chiesa (their karting boss) – “many times I was called by reception about some problem in the room. It might be noise, or they might have broken something. They would never sleep so they were always tired the next morning”

“they both liked ice cream so much, particularly vanilla. During the night they wanted to eat ice cream always, so I had to go out everywhere to find some and keep them happy”

Lewis would often persuade Nico to buy him sweets

They would have competitions over LITERALLY EVERYTHING

Lewis: “we always had great competition whether on the racetrack or computer games or playing football”

“probably the first bit of competition we had was when Nico used to ride a unicycle everywhere so I thought, ‘I’ve got to learn how to ride this unicycle. Ive got to be better than him.’ I spent all my time outside the go-kart learning to ride this unicycle”

Apparently it only took Lewis 2 hours to teach himself how to do it

In maybe 2013 ish (when they were still friends) Lewis reflected with– “I have never laughed so much than when we were racing together. Nico was kicking everyone’s butt at that time. We had so great races together and built a great relationship”

“we were just arriving and enjoying go-karts and eating pizzas every weekend, fighting all the time and just having fun, whereas now it’s all business.”

many times they would talk about what they would do when they got to f1, made plans hoping to be teammates and become world champions together.

“Nico would say ‘when I’m in formula one’ and for me it was always ‘if I ever get to formula one’. Because obviously Nico’s dad was a formula 1 driver- he knew he was going to make it.”

F1

Nico joined f1 in 2006 with williams, Lewis 2007 with McLaren. And man I WISH I knew what went down with this two when Lewis nearly one his rookie season (missing out by one point to mr fernando alonso) and then WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP in his SECOND SEASON (again by one point thank you mr alonso)

2008 Australia

Nicos gets his first podium, and ofc Lewis is there (he won it) and they are jumping around in the cool down room. Just, two kids who are literally living the one thing they have spent their whole lives dreaming about together. Lewis won the championship that year and oh wow I can only imagine their celebrations together.

2013

They’re teammates in Mercedes!!!

Nico: “every other day there are moments or things that pop up and I can smirk and thing, ‘that’s exactly the same as it was 15 years ago’”

2013 Malaysian Grand Prix gets an honourable mention. This is the race with red bulls good old multi 21 but merc also had their own team orders, stopping nico from fighting for his first merc podium, but Lewis disagreed with it so it didn’t really spark that much tension between them- more the team.

2014

the start of the turbo-hybrid era so y’all know this was good in terms of performance.

2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

They were both fighting for the win and had a collision which prompted a “mock fight” in parc ferme after the race (which I really hope there’s a video of).

Turns out, Nico won because he had used engine modes banned by Mercedes to get a power advantage in the closing laps. which kinda pissed Lewis off

2014 Spanish Grand Prix

Lewis’ fourth win in a row and took lead in the championship. They were fighting till literally the last second and Lewis crossed the line 0.6 seconds ahead of Nico, who says he could have passed him with one more lap.

Lewis defended using the same banned engine modes that Nico had used in Bahrain. Yeah.

2014 Monaco Grand Prix

This is IT. This is peak petty bitch. This is the one people still cry about.

It’s the end of Q3, both of them are out on a lap, Nico ahead of lewis. Nico’s already on provisional pole but Lewis is pretty close.

And then,, Nico just,, parks his car?? He says he made a mistake but the guy doesn’t even crash he straight up just,, rolls to a stop into a slip road. So the yellow flags come out forcing Lewis to abort a lap that was in the makings of pole.

The stewards say it was a-okay but Lewis was convinced it was intentional (and let’s be honest, yeah it probably was) and he even claimed that merc’s data proved it. (low key surprised he didn’t just tweet out the telemetry but I guess he got a stern telling off from mclaren last time)

But *this* is when Lewis tells the world that they aren’t friends anymore. An iconic interview.

Nico then wins the race too, ending Lewis’s four win streak and putting Nico in the lead of the championship.

2014 Hungarian Grand Prix

Lewis has an engine failure in quali meaning he starts from the pit lane, but he does good to make his way up the pack but THEN there’s a safety car which puts him ahead of Nico but on a different strategy.

Nico asks if Lewis can let him past as he needs to pit again before the end of the race, which will give him the place back anyways. Lewis straight up refuses, he’s on a role here. He started from last, and Nico started from pole, why should he slow down to let his title rival through.

Mercedes strongly suggest that his blocking fucked up Nicos race but Niki Lauda is on Lewis’ side so he doesn’t get punished (We stan a supportive father figure) even though he did blatantly refuse to be a team player.

And guys, this is the last race before the summer break so you know Nico was left seething for four weeks.

2014 Belgian Grand Prix

Second lap, Nico attempts a clumsy move and there’s contact, giving Hamilton a puncture and knocking him out of the race.

There’s a lot of controversy but basically it turns out he crashed with him intentionally, not backing out of the corner to “prove a point”. Nico ended up finishing second but was punished by the team, forced to apologise, and even booed on the podium.

2014 Abu Dhabi

For some reason it ran for double points?? The first time in History??? But idk???

Lewis had a perfect start and went on to win it and take the title, Nico had a problem and was told to retire the car but he kept going anyway and finished 14th. Nico went into the cool down room to congratulate Lewis on the championship win, which. cute.

Lewis claimed his second championship. Which not only was huge because of the inter team rivalry, but also because of the large gap between his first win. This guy had lost out on winning the championship in his ROOKIE season by ONE POINT, and then WON it in his SECOND season, and then there was like a FIVE YEAR gap before he won it again.

2015

Damnnn this car was fiiiinneeeeeee.

They do more laps in testing than any other car AND do it on a single power unit. And then. Australia. They take a one-two THIRTY FOUR seconds ahead of the third place Ferrari.

2015 Chinese Grand Prix

Nico is second in a one-two but claims that Lewis kept backing him up into Seb, trying to compromise his race (and help out his boyfriend).

Lewis gave zero shits: "It's not my job to look after Nico's race, it's my job to manage the car and bring the car home as healthy and as fast as possible. That's what I did."

2015 U.S. Grand Prix

If Lewis wins here he could also claim the title with three races to spare (you have to remember back then the title fight often went up to the last race so this was pretty cool)

Lewis very aggressively forced Rosberg wide at Turn 1 to claim the lead, and then there was some sexy fighting between the Mercs and Redbull all race. Nico led in the closing stages but made a mistake, running deep into a corner and letting Lewis past with only a handful of laps to go.

Nico finished P2 and had not only lost the race but the championship title. Nico was fuming, saying Lewis’ move at the start was “one step too far”.

This is the infamous cap throw in the cool down room. Lewis throws Nico his P2 hat, Nico straight up yeets it back at him. I tear up just thinking about it. They grow up so fast.

2016

Nico had came so close to winning and I guess this was just, the last straw. All or nothing. This year he literally gave it everything he had. Lewis and him stopped speaking, Nico gave up literally the rest of his life and even stopped sleeping in the same bed as his wife and taking care of his kids, instead spending every moment trying to get into Lewis’ head. Honestly, I think he might be the only one that could beat Lewis. Just because he knew him *so well*. He literally threw away like 16 years of friendship. But also it’s like, he had to be world champion. He *had to*. His dad was champion and his whole life he’s been preparing to win it too. Tough luck that he raced in the same era as Mr. Best Driver The Sport Has Ever Seen.

Nico won the last few races of 2015, and the first four races of 2016. Lewis had a couple car problems and Nico had a good lead on him in the championship.

2016 Spanish Grand Prix

Gentlemen. A short view back to the past. Nico had made a switch error on the formation lap causing the car to go into the wrong engine mode. So he was running a lot slower than Lewis, who was fighting to claim back the lead.

Nico closed the door to keep him back, and Lewis lost control on the grass, and spins into Nico and taking them both out of the race in the first lap. This is probably one of the most iconic crashes. I’m pretty sure there’s a clip of this somewhere in black and white with the titanic music over the top.

Niki Lauda blamed this one on Lewis (I guess even a supportive dad has to be critical sometimes) "Lewis is too aggressive. It is stupid, we could've won this race".

2016 Austrian Grand Prix

Nico had been struggling with a brake issue all race but was still on the way to win it. But in the last lap Lewis had caught him up and gone in for the overtake.

Typical Nico not taking any shit, refusing to be the guy that backs out and they collide. Lewis took the win and a damaged Nico dropped to fourth. From first. In the last lap.

Both of them blamed each other and tired dad team boss Toto Wolff threatened team orders in future races.

The stewards blamed Nico for the incident, issuing him two penalty points for failing to allow "racing room" and causing a collision.

2016 Abu Dhabi

In the final laps of the race, Lewis ignored team-orders from his race engineer and the technical director.

He deliberately slowed and backed Nico into the pack hoping they overtake him, and there would be enough of a points difference to win the title.

Nico finished second and won the title by five points.

And then,,, Nico announced a surprise retirement during the FIA prize giving ceremony.

Lewis’ response:

"This is the first time he's won in 18 years, hence why it was not a surprise that he decided to stop.” (We stan a petty king)

“But he's also got a family to focus on and probably wants to have more children. Formula One takes up so much of your time."

“In terms of missing the rivalry, of course because we started karting when we were 13 and we would always talk about being champions. When I joined this team, Nico was there, which was something we spoke about when we were kids. So it's going to be very, very strange, and, for sure, it will be sad to not have him in the team next year."

And now they are kind of on speaking terms but not really, they are both pretty private but I think they are at the ‘awkward small talk when we run into each other at the supermarket’ stage of the break up.

[vro0m]

Okay SO i have my coffee, I went off about celtic mythology already, apparently I'm in the mood to write today, and I remembered your post last night. LETS GO

WHAT WOULD THE WORLD BE LIKE IF LEWIS HAMILTON HAD DECIDED NOT TO RACE

- shit. it would be shit, definitely

- nico would have more than one championship

- seb would have at least one more wdc with ferrari

- fernando would be a bit more normal because he wouldnt be holding a grudge about being beaten by a rookie 20 yrs ago

- i think val and nico would be teammates and i honestly have no idea how that would look; however, nico would be a fundamentally different person bcs lewis was legit his only friend, and i somehow think he would be both worse and better

- f1 would be even more unapproachable to anyone who wasnt a rich white guy, bcs lewis came in and fucking owned them all, and is the most successful driver of all times, so i shudder to think what it would be like if he werent there

- we'd probably still think some of the rich white men were decent people bcs they wouldnt be outing themselves as racists left and right

- ferrari would still be a disaster 💔

- who wouldve driven for mclaren tho? it was lewis and heidfeld i think during rbr domination era

- barichello? massa? ngl i think barichello shouldve won in 2009 (sorry jense), so how would that have played out, with jenson to mclaren

- god i dont know so many possibilities!!!

💖

Okay so. First of all you're so absolutely right the world and F1 would have been way worse overall.

I made a spreadsheet of all the drivers who have ranked in the WDC standings since Lewis' arrival in F1 in 2007 and where they ended up in the standings each year because I can't be a normal person about this. Then I tucked away all those who were clearly irrelevant to the subject (and that's most of them lol).

Here's what I think. It's long, because I think too much.

In 2007, Raikkonen won. Lewis not being there would not have changed a thing apart from the permanent alteration of Alonso's brain function. I don't remember the context exactly, would he have left McLaren so soon if it wasn't for Lewis' arrival?

If not, could he have won in 2008? The McLaren wasn't excessively dominant that year, Kovalainen finished 7th. But if Lewis was able to extract that kind of performance out of the car anyway, could Alonso have done the same? The less uncertain choice is Massa. He was so close to that title. What would have happened if it had been Alonso in Lewis' position? It's difficult to say.

In 2009, Lewis finished 5th. I don't think it would have made much of a difference had he not been there. So Jenson keeps that one, obvi. (Can you explain why you think Barrichello would have gotten it?) Same goes for 2010-2013, doesn't change a thing for Seb's domination era. The McLaren wasn't good enough for the title in those years, no matter who would have been driving it if it wasn't him, and then the Mercedes wasn't good enough either yet.

The big question is : who would have taken Michael's Mercedes seat if it hadn't been him? Let's not forget that at the end of 2012, it was considered a risky move from him to join them, as the team wasn't doing very well. I'm looking at the drivers who got a seat, lost their seat or moved teams at that time : Perez, Hülkenberg, Gutiérrez, Sutil, Grosjean, Kobayashi, Maldonado, Pic, van der Garde, Kovalainen, Petrov, Glock, Chilton, de la Rosa, Karthikeyan... Would they have chosen Valtteri already? He'd only been a reserve driver so far... Of all these, weirdly, the only one who finished above Nico in 2012 was Grosjean.

It all depends on that really because without a competitive teammate, Nico would have won more than once yeah. At least in 2014 and 2015, on top of 2016. However...

What if Mercedes had gotten a driver for 1 year in 2013? And then who could have gotten that seat in 2014? Massa and Raikkonen were on the market. They were both very very good drivers. Massa was then driving with Ferrari and finished 7th and 8th in the two previous years. Raikkonen was 3rd and 5th with Lotus. Would Nico have won against them? Maybe...

What if Mercedes had gotten a driver for 2 years in 2012? Who would have gotten the seat in 2015? Alonso left Ferrari at the end of 2014, and of course Seb left RBR... Would Nico have won against them? I don't think so. Although either of these pairings would have been highly entertaining lol.

There were no such interesting moves in 2016. So yeah, by the end of that season, either Nico with 2 more titles OR Massa or Raikkonen with 1 or 2 more (rather unlikely imho) OR Alonso or Seb with 1 more (actually very likely if either had gotten the seat in 2015 imho).

Of course then the rest depends on that seat as well and becomes pretty much impossible to predict. So for the sake of the thought exercise let's leave that seat aside and imagine what would have happened if things just went as they actually went except no Lewis.

So Nico wins in 2014, 2015 and 2016. Does Nico retire if he's not exhausted by his fight against Lewis? I guess not? Does he win against Seb in 2017 then? Lewis ended up 46 points ahead of him in reality, could Nico have done the same had it been him? How about 2018, when it was 88 points? I think two questions to consider are how good of a driver Nico really is and how good would he have been without his rivalry with Lewis. In your ask you said he would have been both worse and better. As a person or as a driver or both? What do you think?

What if Valtteri was there then. Who's the best driver between Nico and Val? Because Val is indeed very good. Would he have won in 2019, in 2020? What about Max? Would he have won his first title earlier, later, in 2021 still?

How do their rivalries shape the drivers' performance? Did everybody do better or worse because Lewis was so unattainable? Did it light a fire under all their asses or did it discourage them?

[jensonsbuttons]

oooooh katie that's a piping hot take about seb and jenson as teammates.... and i think you're right. to be 100% selfish i would've LOVED to have them as teammates, and i think jb is pretty good at staying on good terms with his teammates. seb in 2010-2013 however.... imagine multi-21 but with jenson HA! anyways as you said i'd love to have them in mclaren later... like yes mclaren sucked there for a while but i think the power of the dilfs could've made it score well. i hope you have a good day mwah!!!!!

okay okay okay so i've been sitting on this for a while cause i haven't had the capacity to actually respond but i think i do now

if y'all want incoherent rambling please check under the cut

anyway yeah okay okay so previous idea here is that like...2010-2013 (yes those years) i don't think jenson and seb would've gotten along as teammates regardless of whether they were at red bull or mclaren but ESPECIALLY if they were both at red bull. oh my god they uhhh would not have survived or at least it wouldn't be what we know today. i think maybe only maybe they'd come back together once jenson left the sport??? kinda like mark and seb have but like...more gradual i think only cause they wouldn't know if they wanted to be friends still???

like okay okay picture this: jenson goes to rb, he leaves after 2013 with constructor's credit but no wdc cause seb still wins (i could see him being a little bitter and still wanting a challenge which hey he didn't get cause seb just is like that) so he goes to mclaren and unfortunately the only challenge that happens is such a poor car. everything happens the same after and he retires after 2016. i think that 2017 year he might've come back to f1 for like. some interviews and obviously monaco but with seb it would still be a little touch and go (kinda like it was don't kill me) and i think seb would kinda be in the same boat!!!

like....idk it just seems like it would be a deeper thing than seb and mark. like. seb and mark had driving and that drove them apart and sure before they were teammates they were kinda like...civil?? and even during their time together sometimes they were civil. and then as soon as they take driving out of the equation hey. civil. (he still knows which coin is heavier even)

but jenson and seb i think this whole thing would just keep driving that stake between them. it's just a deeper friendship rivalry whatever between them so the consequences would've been worse. does that make....any sense...

cause here's the thing!!! you give me seb going to like...mclaren in 2015 instead of ferrari (which ouch don't think about that timeline too hard it made my brain hurt) and i could kinda see them like...not goofing off but certainly getting along better than if jenson went to rb in 2010-2013.

(i also think seb would've taken two looks at the mclaren and either just. jumped ship somehow to a different team or would've spent every waking moment making sure he put the hard work in to make that car good again.) but at the end of the day...15/16 was where jenson lost that spirit and he even knows it! so its not to say he gave up. he still raced and did the best he could but like. where seb knows okay its a shit car he still has more years than jenson. jenson is kinda on the way out and he knows it. so...it wouldn't be the best of friends thing but it wouldn't be as bad as 2010-2013 red bull ya feel?

but also also you said it. power dilfs. maybe their power combined together could've made that piece of junk fly on the track. it's a pretty powerful power BUT I GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW!!!!!

[leqclerc]

Hi! I’ve seen a post about reddit people saying charles has caused a lot of dnfs (up to 2020 i think it said he caused 12) saying he’s worse than kvyat etc, and like I know he does tend to go for the slightest of margins to get the best results so I kind of get why he has that driving mentality but do you think it’s fair to say that he is worse than the likes of romain? And like obvs we are slightly more biased but I do prefer criticizing on a more educated basis so I just wanted your opinion as well.

Hello!

A short view back to the past...The penalty system, as we know it today, was introduced in 2014. No one will ever state it outright, but it's sort of generally accepted that this new system was introduced as a direct response to Pastor Maldonado and, to a lesser extent, Romain Grosjean's, on track, er...antics, shall we say.

I only caught the tail end of Pastor's (whose recklessness earned him the nickname Crashtor among the online community) career in 2015, but there are many Youtube compilations of his crashes and incidents if anyone wants to catch up on that era of F1. For starters, he was the most reprimanded Formula One driver in 2012 (two years before the current penalty system was introduced.) Out of 96 grands prix (that he raced in), there were 29 retirements, and he incurred 39 penalties in his colourful F1 career (that's one every 2.4 races and 12 were for causing a collision.) When you start being recognised for your crashing more than your driving...there's a problem.

Similarly Romain was a...definitely an interesting figure over the years? Opinions on him were divided. A lot of people saw him as a bit of an on-track troublemaker, an accident-prone driver who could probably be replaced by someone "better." On the other hand, though, he'd earned himself a following of loyal fans who travelled around as much as they could to meet him and make their support for him felt. He was also one of the first drivers of the modern era (afaik) to publicly speak out about mental health and the fact that he's been working with a sports psychologist throughout his career.

And then there's Max. As of right now, the current championship leader. He's generally praised for his on-the-limit but relatively incident-free driving, certainly this season. But here's the thing about Max: he's been in F1 since 2015, in a top team since May 2016 (in a curious twist of fate he was switched with Daniil after Seb complained about Daniil crashing into him at the previous race). No matter which way you spin it (no pun intended), he's got seasons of experience over Charles, never mind the gang that joined as rookies in 2019. That can't be overstated. Especially since the beginning was rough. After Pastor's departure in 2015 it seemed Max was on a mission to fill the void - sure, he had moments of on-track brilliance (Brazil 2016 comes to mind) but my god did it come at a cost. I remember being lowkey scared every time he was anywhere near Nico (my then-fave driver) or Seb or anyone I cared about sjdjef More stats because why the hell not... between Monaco 2015 and Monaco 2019 he'd accumulated a whopping 21 penalty points (sharing the top spot with Romain) for what the stewards deemed dangerous driving - four instances of causing a collision, three instances of gaining an advantage, etc.) Despite all this, I remember even back in the day he gained a following for being "balls to the wall" about his approach and just going for it where others would've probably backed off. Whether he made it work or not didn't seem to matter - people were impressed that he was doing it. Now he's obviously grown as a person and as a driver and you can clearly see that in the way he drives and chases and overtakes today. Still ballsy, still on the limit, but it seldom results in an incident these days, whereas a few years back it likely would've put him and possibly someone else as well out of the race.

Not gonna open this particular can of worms but there are other drivers out there that also turned to on-the-limit tactics and often ended up forcing other drivers wide, including their teammate (since there seems to be this idea of be more lenient when it's your teammate, think of the team.) Again, it was...praise-worthy if anything and rarely resulted in penalties. Comparing these incidents and accidents is like comparing apples and oranges, but I'm just saying...this isn't new.

I think Charles is a mix of these. Add into that the frustration and desperation of 2020, the way he knew that his best chance of a decent finish came if he just catapulted himself up the grid on the first lap, and, well. Sometimes he's on the limit but clever about it and it pays off, other times it doesn't work out so well (for him or for someone else or both.) Do I wish he were fast, an effective overtaker, and incident-free all the time? Sure. But realistically that's not going to happen. All drivers, regardless of age or team or experience, will end up tangling with other drivers at some point. That's just racing. It doesn't mean they have some kind of personal vendetta or agenda against said person. He said he's learning from his mistakes and trying to be a bit more mindful about his approach, and that's good enough for me. Ultimately if he goes too hard he'll likely end up hurting his own chances and I think he gets that.

And regarding penalties...I mean, look. He's not a steward, is he? It's not up to him to make those decisions. They've been inconsistent since way before Charles ever showed up in F1, so claiming the system is rigged to benefit him is ludicrous imo. But people will believe what they want to believe so, whatever.

TL;DR: No, I genuinely don't think Charles's incident history is comparable to the likes of Maldonado or Romain at the "worst" stage of his career. I'll put it this way: if you think of his career, do his accidents overshadow his race craft and qualy and race results and overtakes? I don't think that's the case. If it were...then it'd be a problem.

[interlagosed]

I know we are on a carlando lockdown atm for obvious reasons, but! ever since you made that post about sewis angst, let me tell you I started Thinking - capital T. literally on my notes app writing this. ngl i suck at writing fr.

let's begin...both of being young in the sport which implies a lot of just being young not fully formed people. They just want to go fast ok..."who's this other kid? ok maybe hes nice...ANYWAY...i get to race!!!!!!"

Then Seb starts winning! and like he has his fun ok - do they get together in 2010-11? possibly... once they were both drunk (were they tho??)- it was HOT + unresolved gay feelings for the both of them - they dont think about it for years until...well they do. They never talk about it, is this their first time with a boy? meh I dont think so, still theyre both young experience is limited for the both of them.

But going back to evil child seb, he is immature and not the best at communicating...the whole webber teammate competitiveness, like a bit of a hothead after all. He goes out, he experiences things, he figures his shit out and is relatively chill about it, he can keep it lowkey. Of course, sprinkle some tension of them seeing the other pick someone up at like idk a party, theyre like "uh good for them" but still they LOOK.

2015 happens and years have passed - seb has matured a lil bit, learnt to be professionally mature and maybe more secure in himself, but also he has never had to undergo all the racist abuse LH always had to face - so like liking guys doesnt feels as much as a freak out. + got hurt a little less by people around him?

Seb goes to ferrari in 2016 and LH keeps winning, but! nico...childhood friends turned maybe lovers around 2015 turned enemies. Personally I wont pretend I know what it feels like to be the only black person in a sport, where you're constantly pushing back against undeserved hate - because well Im not a poc so I have 0 knowledge of that nor I feel comfortable pretending that i can imagine it ??? idk how that would factor into lh growth as an individual. But being black and gay? some internalised homophobia must happen somewhere when you're competing in the most sexist of sports( it is sadly).

anyway, the point is...the whole rosberg drama (i hate that anti vaxxer fuck that guy frankly) happens. see THAT interview where lewis almost looks embarrassed of the things nico is saying about seb feeling bad his teammate didnt finish the race...bc well maybe he has got to know seb a bit better and sue him he likes the guy, he respects him and admires him, therefore the "not all of us think like this". They are not romantic feelings he has for him, the relationship with nico and the championship run definitely are definitely enough for him to not have just the mental capacity to even consider that. But, he does feel connected to seb as a person, bc they've both winners ya know - seb in 2016 still had more championships than lewis. So like nico publicly pulling out all the dirty laundry (is this even an english figure of speech?idk) for the world AND seb to see is humiliating. Also, because he did play into all the mind games and over the top macho bs rosberg pulled that year...and that maybe says something about himself just as much as it does for rosberg. for example idk spain 2016 (idk the chronological order between that interview and the spain gp but oh well this is fantasy anyway its doesnt matter). seb being seb sees this, but still they're professionals and competitors! so he makes a joke about it, keeps it not personal bc wtf?! we are f live doing media, leave me out of your pettiness. Still he is very aware of how f up the dynamic is between the 2, say when he talks to lewis pre races and nico is never mentioned - lewis isnt easy to see through but maybe some times he is (poetic description of lewis staring into the void looking very pensive, seb is looking platonically ty very much).

Say towards the end of the season lh and nico stop being intimately involved, things arent good and lh really needs less of whatever the f is going on there.( Lh being more involved in social matters, more outspoken has played a part so far - or at least it should be mentioned, bc you know lewis too did say some ignorant stuff at some point, changing that shows growth and a more open mind...he grows more serene with the idea of being who he is).

2017 and 2018 seb and lewis are both championships contenders, they get together eventually- end of the 2018 season?you choose. But maybe say there's a whole episode about seb showing basic human decency and being able to separate the on track competition from their off track relationship and lewis going "oh". and then they get together again, the sex is still very much HOT, but it just...isnt done with the intention of hurting the other (aftercare happens!) and then lewis goes "OH". Still, because they're still men and obtuse at that they keep it very casual, but they're both clearly falling for one another (i hate having seb being the one pining after lewis during his early ferrari years- let my boy have his love life while those other 2 destroy each other).

ferrari sucks in this universe too, so like seb has to deal with that, bc disappointment is hard to take for so long. Lewis is there, just honestly trying his best, because he has never had to reconcile him winning with also being there and good for someone he's involved with. lewis doesnt know if hes able to step it up...sebastian deserves the best! whilist seb is there being like why is he even there if every weekend im miserable? followed by a misunderstanding about lewis opening up about nico and snapping at seb bc he feels vulnerable. They're a bit distant for like idk a couple of moths, after all this isnt a relationship is it??? we are being adults about this and not acknowledging any of our feelings.

by 2020 they go on winter break with no plans of seeing each other during those months but then one or the other shows up in monaco/switzerland being like "ive never been casual about this like ever pls be my boyfriend? 🫣🫣"and then the other is ":) of course im absolutely not normal about you either:) " 👨🏼‍❤️‍💋‍👨🏾

ty for coming to worst ted talk ever conceived,prolly conveyed 20% of the angst and feelings i was trying to convey but oh well...im going to sleep. Also, hope tumblr staff wakes the f up :) cheers!

holy shit. presented without comment.

ok maybe one comment: i read this last night while i was half asleep and now i'm reading it in the morning and i'm STILL emotional algjakljga I'M ABSOLUTELY NOT NORMAL ABOUT YOU how is this so romantic LMAO