#ios app

[getvalentined]

The Big Patreon Breakdown

Okay, Patreon's Discord Q&A ended on the 16th, and I've been waiting to see if anything else happened—like maybe a a public announcement from Patreon instead of emails sent exclusively to creators and a video hidden on the CEO's personal YT page—but nothing has happened, so I'm gonna do a breakdown of what we're looking at.

This is an EXTREMELY long post. I am not putting it behind a cut. I'm not sorry.

Short attention span version here.

—

I. The iOS processing fees are a smokescreen covering up the actual devastating changes that Patreon is forcing creators into.

The iOS fees are trash, 30 percent is extortion and we all know it—but that's not the biggest issue at hand here. Patreon is using this event as an excuse to change the entire structure of the creator side of their platform, and blaming Apple to avoid getting backlash.

They tripled their platform and processing fees in 2017, passing it on to patrons without notice, and the subsequent hemorrhage of paying users forced them to walk it back. They tried to force everyone onto their rolling billing model in 2021, and the entire community pushed back so hard they were forced again to walk it back.

This time, they're doing both and insisting it's Apple's fault, and everyone is taking that at face value because Apple sucks. And Apple does suck, but Patreon is getting what they've wanted for years by catering to Apple.

Oh, also, they're forcing creators to notify their patrons of the billing model changes (with a suggested template that explicitly refers to it as a decision made by the creator, even though nobody is making any decisions here except Jack Conte) rather than doing it themselves.

II. Patreon is not going to change course for any reason. This is set in stone.

There are multiple proofs for this, including but not limited to:

One-on-one calls between the platform's top earners and the CEO, Jack Conte, wherein the vibe was apparently not "What can we do to support your business in order to retain your place on our platform?" but rather "We know that the only way this works is if we don't do it, but how can we keep you from complaining about it any more than you already have?" One creator explained in granular detail how they run their business through this platform and why changing their billing model would ruin literally everything, and Conte responded with "Is this an essential part of your offering?"

The Patreon Team on Discord has continued to shut down all discussion of alternative options with assertions that Apple won't allow it, even if those alternatives were suggested based on legal precedent set by lawsuits against Apple, and the declaration that they will not be allowing the app to be removed from the App Store no matter what because it's the single most important and integral avenue of creator growth on the platform. (Put a pin in that.)

The platform's top earner is on the pay-per-creation billing model, the one that is going to be hit the hardest; creators on this model stand to lose literally 90 percent of their income overnight. This creator and his team were as blindsided as the rest of us, and they've been offered no assistance except for a complex math equation to try to calculate how much they should be charging people on fixed-price tiers, and no assurance except "the iOS app is the platform's highest source of engagement and is necessary to help you continue to grow."

Pay-upfront (PUF) and pay-per-creation (PPC) billing is going away for new accounts and anyone who doesn't opt out via Patreon's convoluted backend before November 1 of this year, and anyone who doesn't manually switch over to their rolling billing cycle will be automatically pushed into it on November 1, 2025. This means that PUF creators no longer have the promise of a steady paycheck when they need it, early enough in the month to pay rent and bills, while PPC creators are losing their entire business model all at once, which has resulted in a loss of 75 to 90 percent of income for multiple PPC creators who have tried to switch to the rolling billing structure in the past. They are killing these people's livelihoods and they know it, they have seen the data to prove it, but they will not be swayed.

III. Patreon claims the iOS app is the highest source of engagement on the platform at 40 percent—but will not define what "engagement" means, and staff refuse to share detailed analytics or data on the revenue share coming from the app.

Several creators, some with a couple dozen patrons and some with thousands, polled their audience to get a feel for how many of them used the app. Consistently across every creative industry, genre, and form of media, the answer was 2 percent or less. The average across a dozen-plus polls of actual active patrons, numbering into the thousands, is that around 85 percent of patrons access the platform exclusively via the web, whether on desktop or mobile. The majority didn't even know there was an app.

Further, Patreon would not explain what "engagement" means, but did not deny the possibility that dismissing an app notification on your phone counts as an "engagement."

When Patreon was asked for data on how often people pledged to support a creator via the iOS app, the only response was the claim that information is "sensitive to [Patreon's] business" and can't be shared. In a creator-exclusive server. With the people who bring that revenue onto the platform in the first place. And have our own analytics that we can look at individually, which show an average of 0 to 0.5 percent revenue from the iOS app.

IV. Patreon does not have a refund policy in place to work with Apple, and has given no implications of intention to work with Apple to shorten the time it takes for funds from iOS purchases to be paid out to creators, which is currently 75 days.

Yes, you read that correctly: at the moment, it takes 75 days before creators can cash out funds processed via iOS. On top of that, Apple's refund policy is 60 days, and the creator is not involved in the process whatsoever—if a malicious actor pledges to your page, downloads all your work over the course of a month, and then pings Apple for a refund? Apple gets to decide whether or not they get that refund.

Patreon's general refund policy is that it's up to the creator 99.9 percent of the time, with very rare cases of fraud requiring Patreon's intervention. In the case of pledges and Commerce sales via iOS, the creator has no say, and Patreon currently has no policy to protect them. They've stated that they're working on a refund policy that will work with Apple's guidelines to keep everyone happy, but at this point we all know what that means—they're just going to use Apple's refund policy.

They also wouldn't say whether or not creators would be on the hook for Apple's added processing fees, as is usually the case with other big payment processors, but it sounds like we are! So if someone pays $14.50 on the iOS app, the creator gets $10, can't pay it out, and then the malicious actor can call for a refund weeks later and the creator will owe $14.50—in spite of only ever having seen $10 and never being able to pay it out because the 75 hold hadn't passed. Sounds great!

V. Patreon's own graphics meant to explain why this is necessary and how the new fees work are not correct.

I'm gonna let these mostly speak for themselves:

The sale price listed on this graphic is $10, but adding together the three fees listed gives a total of $11.35. This is likely a copying error, as 4.35 is clearly not 30% of 10, but the lack of attention to detail on one of the only two pieces of official material that we have which refer directly to the numbers on which Patreon is signing away our livelihoods is slightly concerning.

This one totals up to 103 percent! (Actually closer to 104, since I rounded Android and Mobile down by about a quarter percent each.) The 40 percent figure on the iOS bar is based on the figure given to us by Patreon staff, and was used to place the markers to denote individual percentages on the other three.

Patreon made these and gave them to us with the assertion that they were proof that the iOS app is indispensable—why should we trust anything they say about numbers if the charts they gave us are literally impossible?

VI. Patreon refuses to offer any promises to 18+ creators that they will not be removed from the app in order to adhere to Apple's content guidelines.

Instead, Patreon staff's response to this request for reassurance is "We have no plans to remove 18+ creators from the Patreon app." You may note that's phrased very specifically, and leaves a hole big enough to drive a freight train full of iPhones straight through. They have no plans to remove 18+ creators from the app. When asked for clarification on this, confirmation that they would not be removing us from the platform if Apple pushed them to do so regardless of whether or not they have plans, this sentiment was simply repeated in more words and with more apologies, along with a reminder that Patreon has had to change their terms for 18+ creators several times already in order to keep up with laws and competition.

VII. All the features Patreon is insisting are integral for creator growth are inaccessible to 18+ creators, and questions about this were either dismissed, redirected, or ignored.

Remember how the iOS app is the single most important and integral avenue for character growth on the platform? Well, 18+ creators are not discoverable on the platform, regardless of the avenue of access. We are not visible on the app unless you have it installed, are logged in, are already following us on the platform, and click an external link to be directed to our pages from somewhere else via a mobile web browser. There is no way to find us on the platform itself.

Other features that staff insist are necessary for growth to which 18+ creators do not have access:

Patreon creator search (on web, Android and iOS apps)

Mass post editing (now called the "Library," which reads as "Something Went Wrong" for me and other 18+ creators who tried to get to it)

On-platform video hosting

Built-in cross-creator recommendations

All on-platform "commerce" features (both digital and physical goods)

The ability to market ourselves by linking to Patreon from our social media and vice-versa (we're basically not allowed to do this or risk being banned)

Yeah, about that first and that last point. We're hidden from searches on the platform, and we can't link to our pages from social media or risk permanent suspension. We cannot grow in this fashion at all, and in fact 18+ creators are getting all the downsides of this switch (except maybe for the app fee, since you can't fucking find us to pledge on the app) with none of the benefits. Nothing they are doing here will help us grow, because they've kneecapped us already. Now they're going after our capacity to obtain a steady paycheck at the beginning of the month, too.

VIII. Patreon's iOS app is currently (as of August 18, 2024) in violation of Apple's guidelines for app ratings; staff did not state any intention to become compliant by raising the app's rating as needed to maintain their 18+ creator community.

The App Store guidelines on creator apps state that they must be rated equal to the highest rated creator content on their platform. In spite of hosting 18+ content, which requires a 17+ rating per Apple, Patreon is rated 12+ in the App Store. Increasing the rating to 17+ would cut out the entire market of wealthy teenagers with iPhones, and since everything else being done here is intended to please Apple, it's unlikely this will be the point that Patreon finally gives an inch for its creators. The exact response from staff on this was "We hear and acknowledge your inputs on the app rating and are exploring our options there." Their "options" on this are to increase the rating, or to remove all 18+ content from the platform. That's it. Those are their options. Why do those need exploring, if they really give a shit about the 18+ community?

I know a lot of people out there are going to say that it would be nice if Patreon would "get rid of the porn," but you need to understand something: 18+ content is not all sexual.

18+ content can and does also include:

Horror (particularly body horror, which is explicitly or implicitly banned on all current adult-specific creator platforms, leaving me nowhere to go when Patreon kicks me)

True crime (murder, violence, theft, etc., is all 18+)

Health (blood/discussion of blood is 18+ regardless of context)

Education (what if you learn about war? that's 18+)

Trauma recovery (the word "r#pe" makes everything around it 18+)

Profanity (ko-fi marks creators 18+ for saying "fuck")

Languages (because you might learn profanity)

Weaponsmithing (because weapons are dangerous)

Leatherworking (because leather can be a fetish)

Shoemaking (feet can also be a fetish)

...even more I'm not bothering to list here.

Implying that they somehow didn't know about this extremely important part of the guidelines—which are being used as an excuse to force the top earner on the platform to ruin his entire business model—is absolute nonsense. Patreon knows about this requirement, they haven't taken any steps to comply based on their current creator population, and I will be shocked if they do. Much easier to just kick us all off, since we can barely use the damn platform as it is.

—

The entire thing makes no sense. Patreon is losing out on so much money by doing this—they're crippling all their highest-earning creators to keep the iOS app running, and it's going to hurt everyone except for Apple. The only reason I can think that they would refuse to budge on this is that there's something else going on behind the scenes between Patreon and Apple. That, or the company is intentionally throwing itself into an extremely drawn out death spiral. But we all know which of those is the more likely scenario here.

[blueberriimoon]

｡‧˚ʚ 𝐒𝐭✰𝐫𝐠𝐢𝐫𝐥 ɞ˚‧｡⋆ʚ ✰ ɞ

[riamupng]

As seen in Doraemon, Dorayaki! A sandwich of pancakes with a sweet red bean paste between them Recipe live on Taste Of Umami (iOS)

[moltengarnet]

Anyone remember Eliminate Pro?

I didn’t know about Quake at the time but I loved this game when I used to have an IPod Touch. Too bad they shut down the servers after only like 3 years.

[lifezvictory]

Major App Accessibility Issue

I'm not sure why, but voiceover has stopped being able to read any post content on the IOS app. Is there any way to alert the devs of this?

[voizac-technologies]

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[listm01]

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[lettherebepink]

@staff begging you to fix the iOS app. The search tab refreshes whenever exiting the app! It’s practically unusable.

[lingual-exploits]

Imiwa? Is the best Japanese learning dictionary I have ever used, and I've been using different ones since back when paper dictionaries were the only option (aka didn't have a smart phone; so around like 2009/2010). But it was last updated in 2021. I so hope this does not go obsolete it would be a big blow to my minuscule Japanese abilities.

[zeqonsdigital1]

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[getvalentined]

The Short Patreon Breakdown

Basic version of this post, for people with no attention span. For details on each of these points, please see the original post.

1. The iOS processing fees are a smokescreen covering up the actual devastating changes that Patreon is forcing creators into—including doing away with the two billing models used by most of the highest-earning creators on the platform, regardless of the impact this will have on their livelihood.

2. Patreon is not going to change course for any reason. This is set in stone. CEO Jack Conte himself has been having one-on-one meetings and calls with the platform's top earners, and clearly has no interest in their actual grievances or how their businesses operate—only in getting them to stop complaining.

3. Patreon has offered no proof of their claims that the iOS app is responsible for 40 percent of the engagement on the platform—and also refuse to define what "engagement" means. Staff rebuff all requests for detailed analytics or data on the revenue share coming from the app, but did not refute the possibility that dismissing an app notification counted as "engagement."

4. Patreon does not have a refund policy in place to work with Apple in order to protect creators from malicious chargebacks, and has given no indication of any intent to work with Apple to shorten the time it takes for funds from iOS purchases to be paid out to creators—which is currently 75 days.

5. Patreon's own graphics meant to explain why this is necessary and how the new fees work are not correct: the fee structure graphic features a copying error that results in incorrect math, and adding together everything on the bar graph showing the daily active users by avenue of access comes to a total of 103 percent. They are woefully unprepared to share this information, and are putting it on us for "not understanding."

6. Patreon refuses to offer any promises to 18+ creators that they will not be removed from the app in order to adhere to Apple's content guidelines, instead only saying they currently have no plans to remove us from the app. Questioning this was met with a reminder that they've had to change the TOS for 18+ creators before.

7. All the features Patreon is insisting are integral for creator growth are inaccessible to 18+ creators, and questions about this were either dismissed, redirected, or ignored. 18+ creators can't even be found on either app, but we're being forced to cater to iOS' terms anyway, with claims that it's because all creators need the app in order to grow. Even though we can't utilize it.

8. Patreon's iOS app is currently* in violation of Apple's guidelines for app ratings; staff did not state any intention to become compliant by raising the app's rating as needed to maintain their 18+ creator community, only declaring that they're "exploring options." Per Apple's guidelines, the "options" are to either raise the rating to 17+, cutting off access for the wealthy teenagers with iPhones to which the platform is so dedicated they'll kneecap their top earner in order to court, or kick all 18+ creators off the platform. (This includes horror, true crime, health, trauma recovery, and more, not just sexual content.) *Current as of August 18, 2024.

Do not let the 30 percent App Store fee distract you from what's really going on here. Patreon is crippling a huge portion of their creators, including a horde of their top earners—and the single most profitable creator on the entire platform—and offering no legitimate reasons why. The amount of money they're losing from these creators restructuring or leaving altogether totals in the millions within a single month of activity. This isn't even about money, it's about something else—and there's no way to know what, because Patreon is giving us nothing.

[licensingenterprise]

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[riamupng]

SOBA | Japanese Cold noodles - Served with spring onion, wasabi and mentsuyu. You can find the recipe on the app link above ^

[probeyservices]

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