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#it’s really interesting to see how clearly developed as a writer
anthurak · 8 months
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Something I was always a little concerned about in the lead-up to Hazbin Hotel was that Charlie was going to be a bit too passive of a character, ie; leaning only into the ‘kind, optimistic Disney-Princess-in-Hell who just wants to help everyone’ vibe and not really have much else going on as a character. Which in turn would make her feel kind of bland next to the big, over-the-top or dramatic personalities like Angel Dust and Alastor.
But thankfully, that is not what happened and there’s actually a lot that I like about what the writers are doing with Charlie, particularly in the potential future development and reveals they seem to be setting up.
First off, I like how Charlie generally comes off more like an over-the-top caricature of that ‘Disney-Princess-in-Hell’ vibe, ie; SUPER energized, enthusiastic, affectionate and emotional, often to overbearing degrees that get on everyone’s nerves. It’s generally funny, or at least amusing, and lets Charlie stand out alongside the other big personalities in the cast. Funny enough, she’s actually a lot like Blitzo in this regard, minus the seesawing into extreme abrasiveness.
And more importantly, we’ve already gotten major hints all but confirming that this over-the-top personality is largely a façade, and that Charlie actually has some very clear issues and baggage that she’s working VERY hard to keep buried beneath the surface. Again, much like Blitzo.
Like how in the trust-fall exercise in episode three, despite asking everyone to reveal something personal, Charlie actually bullshits just as hard as Angel Dust and Sir Pentious with her whole ‘I love you all!’ bit. Sure, it’s not like she was lying or being insincere, but it’s clear that was NOT something truly personal for Charlie. And in episode 4 we have Husk straight-up calls out Charlie as ‘wanting to solve everyone’s problems but her own’.
Then of course we have the brief glimpses we’ve seen of Charlie getting angry. Both the times we’ve seen Charlie dealing with some truly despicable and horrendous characters, we’ve seen that rather than lacking the ability to get angry, Charlie is often working to hold herself back. In both her encounters with Adam and Valentino we see points where Charlie is clearly NOT intimidated or afraid of them at all and seems fully prepared to throw down, only being stopped by reigning herself in or by someone else (in this case Angel) stopping her.
Again, it all paints Charlie’s big, bubbly, hyperactive exuberance as something of a front, a way for her to bury a lot of thoughts, feelings and general baggage she doesn’t want to face. Just like what the show has already explored with Angel and Husk.
It actually raises some interesting questions as to what’s REALLY driving Charlie in running the hotel and trying to help Sinners. For one, Husk has already pegged Charlie as ‘wanting to solve everyone’s problems but her own’. And going back to thematic crossover with Helluva Boss, I can’t help but see some potential parallels between Charlie creating the Hazbin Hotel, and Blitzo creating Immediate Murder Professionals.
I think it’s pretty clear at this point that half the reason for creating I.M.P. was as a coping mechanism for Blitzo, or rather the assassination business in general. Something that we’ve gotten hints to as early as the second episode in Blitzo’s back and forth with the Robo-Fizz (“Does anyone love you, Blitzo?”/“No. But I’m really good with guns now!”). With the other half of the reason Blitzo created I.M.P. clearly seems to be to create a surrogate family, as seen with how much he tries to insert himself in the M&M’s lives. Possibly even a specific attempt to replace the family he unwittingly destroyed fifteen years ago.
So I really have to wonder if we’re going to find out that Charlie creating the hotel and her goal of redeeming sinners is in part likewise a coping mechanism and escape for her own baggage.
It’s actually really interesting how episode two first introduced the idea of people opening up with Sir Pentious, then episode four dived further into the concept of the walls and fake personas people put up to hide from their pain and trauma with Angel Dust and Husk. With those two opening up and starting to let their walls down to each other, and by extension we the audience, I think it makes Charlie’s own façade all the more noticeable. It’ll be pretty interesting if Charlie actually winds up being the toughest nut to crack when it comes to opening up about their real issues and baggage. Yet another interesting trait she shares with Blitzo.
All in all, I’m really liking what the show has been doing with Charlie as a protagonist. And I’m REALLY interested to see where the story is going to take her.
Particularly what’s going to happen when she reaches a breaking point…
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weirdhat-here · 2 months
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why was klance?
so i've been thinking about why it blew up the way it did and i wanted to outline of my thoughts on exactly what it was that made klance such a prolific ship
(two things first: i've never really been much of a klance shipper. i also wasn't online or in the fandom while the show was airing so this is all retroactive speculation)
so i believe that when an entire fandom goes crazy over a specific character or ship, there's a good chance that means that they've picked up on something within the show that's genuinely interesting. and i think voltron did this with klance specifically in their setup of the characters. what i mean is:
-individually, their characters each have what the other feels they lack.
to put it short, it's mostly:
lance -> keith's piloting skills
keith -> lance's interpersonal skills
but i'll go more in depth:
this one’s pretty obvious with lance. keith is the pilot prodigy and lance literally crashes the first flight we see him in. it’s the reason he starts the rivalry and does the whole “lance and keith, neck-and-neck” thing. it gets increasingly obvious throughout the show that lance has some serious insecurities about his skills. he starts to act like if he isn’t the best at something, that makes him replaceable on the team.
he wants to be the ninja sharpshooter, but no one calls him that. he wants to be the ace pilot, which is what he went to school for, but keith is better than him and he knows it. iverson even directly compares lance to keith in the first episode where he harshly asserts that keith is the better pilot:
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so lance has his insecurities tied directly to keith, and his way of dealing with that causes them to get off on the wrong foot.
keith, on the other hand, is way more subtle. he bottles up his issues so it naturally takes longer to come out. unfortunately, the show’s writing quality dipped over time so i think this got majorly affected (cue the 2 year off-screen timeskip where they solve his mommy issues that have clearly been there and affecting him since the very beginning. this is fine).
but he clearly deals with abandoment issues and distances himself from others because of it. meanwhile lance is shown to be the more outgoing and emotionally receptive of all the paladins. keith's feelings about himself aren't really tied to lance the same way lance's feelings are to keith. but keith is shown to think little of himself when it comes to relationships with others and is also usually the recipient of lance's more emotionally mature side. (that's to say, keith's feelings abt himself weren't ever really tied to lance in an explicit way, but i think that would've been a good idea for the writers to do down the line if they had continuted developing these characters)
for example, many ppl talk abt this scene on the klance side of the fandom:
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but there's also this scene:
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and this:
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that's to say, lance repeatedly comes thru for keith in things that keith presumably thought were his biggest weaknesses.
they each tie into some major emotional centers for each other and this was the perfect way to setup both of these characters as the show began because:
-a closer relationship between the two guaranteed character development for both
this one's the kicker i think.
because they would absolutely need to change internally before they could get along since it was their internal issues that got in the way in the first place (mostly lance’s tbh. but keith’s insecure way of dealing with closer relationships could’ve definitely caused trouble if they, yknow, actually got to be close).
and it was basically promised that this was going to happen in the narrative of the show bc of three pieces of info the audience got-
-the team needs to get closer in order to form voltron and save the universe. they had a whole episode focused on this in s1. this meant that keith and lance would have to learn how to get along
-the fact that they would need to change in order to get along like i said above
-and the idea that you'd generally expect a show with good writing to stick to the basic tenets of good writing like developing ur characters and deepening their relationships over time (right?? RIGHT????)
which leads to the conclusion: both lance and keith were bound to change individually and together in order to foster some sort of relaitonship between the two.
and combine this with the fact that lance was the fandom darling and so many ppl saw themselves in him, ppl were foaming at the mouth wanting to see him overcome his insecurities and start to like himself. plus the fact that it was set up so that keith would have a big part to play in both those insecurities and the growth from them, and boom--you've got some serious klance love. i mean, who doesn't love seeing relationships where both parties mutually make each other better because of it?
that then begged the question: what would their relationship be like if they acutally grew to like themselves?
-they are shown to get along really well when those insecurities aren't getting in the way
this was one of those points that i think could hold someone back from liking klance, maybe thinking it would be unhealthy with how much they argue. But there were multiple scenes that hinted at them being able to get along much better than how they started. and i’m not just talking the bonding moment. let me explain:
first i'll get the obvious over with,
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this was the first time i had a moment of "oh, so this is what they could be". it literally took lance being blown up for him to put the facade down, but when he did it they had a moment that felt truly meaningful. i mean, it at least meant something to keith
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i see you, emotionally reserved character coming out of his shell for just one moment. ur not slick. (side note: every time i see his face in the first picture i can't help but laugh. i feel bad, but i guess it at least means the animators did a fantastic job)
but the thing it there are many more moments than that one. like this one where keith says that lance came up with a good plan and goes along with it, which feels more significant bc lance so rarely gets acknowledgment for his contributions to the team (also with the fact that they're supposed to still hate each other at this point):
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or this one
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or this one
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or this fucking one
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^i still can't believe that scene felt more genuine that any of lance's date with allura. they really dropped the ball for all these characters
but all these scenes show that there may have been another way for their relationship to be if things had played out differently. in some ways, these two feel like they're on a similar wavelength compared to the other characters just because of the ways they interact, and yes, even argue. but the hints of what a possible way forward in their relationship without all the arguing would look like were there.
-in conclusion✨
the thing is they were interesting and people were absolutely interested to see what they could’ve become, both individually and to each other if they’d gotten to have a closer relationship :/
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i for once want to get the opinion of a "rational" jikooker who knows how to take a step back and take certain things for what they are and i wanna know your opinion or interpretation of jikook in chap2 and them not meeting and also that conversation they had in the car about that please.
And you thought I'm that rational person? Funny.
You know, there's something I always disliked about being in this fandom space. I mean, there's plenty of other things, don't get me wrong, but this one in particular really irks me. It's the need for approval, for confirmation of one's thoughts. There's a severe lack of independent thought. It might be hidden under apparent strong opinions, but when you look at how those opinions are spread to anon messaging to bloggers everyday, that's a sign that the complete opposite happens.
Jikook as a kpop ship always has to be questioned. At this point, I think it's part of its narrative as a ship. But what's curious (and stupid) is that the hardest line of questioning comes from the ones who consider themselves interested/curious. But make no mistake, this is not done for the sake of not becoming delusional and discard any rational thought. It happens because of the need for approval.
You sent me this ask because you hope for me to agree with your own thoughts about jikook and what that conversation in the car means. Not for them actually, but for you. And you're not the only person. A sure sign of fandom insanity is debating for over 2 weeks now a conversation that is not only heavily editated, it is mediated as well. It takes place in the context of a show for fans in which participants are two people who will never reveal everything about their lives. And on top of that, there's an intentional need to ignore that people can speak in hyperbole, that people can ommit or say one thing that actually means more or another that only the other person is capable of understanding the nuances of that.
Communication is complex. We do know that because we engage with it everyday. Except we forget all that the moment we have to talk about this specific ship. We forget a lot of things about human behavior, relationships, etc. It is an intentional act. So we start writing fanfictions. We start making relationship timelines. We start taking about temporary or definitive break ups of a ship that hasn't even been confirmed as a couple. At this point, shippers operate into this alternative universe sphere, canon adjacent but instead of doing it on ao3, they use their blogs and anon messages for that. But hey, fanfics on ao3 are a lot of the times the work of talented writers, while 500-1000 words essays on tumblr are simply a complete waste of time after the first paragraph.
Is this what you would consider a rational perspective? Or should I start writing down a timeline of all the times in which JM and JK have met in "Chapter 2" up until NY in July? (As if in reality their lives are actually separated that clearly, as if a break in band work completely defines their personal lives, jesus christ!). So, should I note down all the public events that they've been to? And to draw a conclusion from it to prove or disprove that the amount of times they've seen each other is reflective or not of what they said in the car when they left for their trip? Of course, we should ignore that there's an entire life outside of what we see.
And that's the thing, you know? We all supposedly agree that they actually share little of their lives with their fans, but practically? The fandom doesn't really give a shit. Because of the classic parasocial relationship we have developed that makes us believe we know everything there is to know.
What we are allowed to see and what we hear from whispers here and there should allow us to realize that no theory over a supposed relationship is better than the other. Believing they are just friends, that they have broken up, that they are fwb and so on is in no way more rational that believing they are together.
What does this mean? If none of us are wiser? It means we have a choice. Some are choosing to be losers or little bitches crying in anon asks about their "insecurities" over a ship. Some are choosing to look at this ship as a duo that includes two people who have really good chemistry and who match each other's freak.
I've always been in the latter category, I thought that was obvious and I've said it before. If one day Jimin makes a public statement that he's marrying the love of his life, a sweet girl that is also the mother of his 5 secret children, then so be it. And if one day, Jungkook shows up one day after he decided to run away and join a bike gang where he met his boyfriend, then so be it. If somehow that next day, a jikook clip would turn up on my tl in which Jimin is brushing his teeth while straddling Jungkook, my reaction would be "well, jikook fuck. Often". You know why? Because for me, the public life of stars and what they choose to share is entertainment. A travel show, a wlive, concerts, these are all forms of entertainment. I do not consume my entertainment by being a loser on the internet, pondering if my assessment over two people might be fucking is real or not or is approved by other people.
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lacrimosathedark · 7 months
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THAT'S IT! This is a Janet Drake Defense Post
As may be obvious, I spend a lot of time reading fanfic. And there's this trend that drives me nuts, and it's villainizing Janet Drake.
I'm not gonna say she's an A+ mother. She's not. She chose her career and adventures over spending time with her child much of the time. But fandom portrays her as some rich pompous ice queen, which is never shown.
Janet Drake mostly appears in the story Tim's introduced, and in the story she dies.
So, let's start from the top: Haly's Circus.
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This event is the only time we see her really interacting with Tim before her death, but it shows that at least when he was young, she was an active part of his life. She was worried about bringing Tim because it might scare him. And then rightfully scolds her husband for being sexist because Jack Drake actually IS a jerk.
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...I don't like the art in this comic. Or that the writer doesn't know how kids speak.
But Janet is being supportive of Tim's clear interest in Dick's performance.
And then tragedy strikes and she acts like, y'know, a mother.
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Her priority is getting her son and herself out of there.
Also worth noting that the Drakes sent a copy of that final photo of the Graysons TO Dick, which is how he has it at all. If both of them were stuck up pricks, would they even bother sending a photo to a grieving child performer they hardly know? I can't imagine Jack really bothering, but I don't see why Janet wouldn't.
And then, by the time she's dying, we know that Tim's parents have been away for a very long time, he never knows where they are, but they've communicated enough that he knows that they've been fighting.
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They're passive aggressive to say the least. This marriage is clearly not working anymore.
EDIT CUZ I REMEMBERED A THING:
It's worth noting that this is a time before smartphones. This comic was released in 1990, which was when pre-paid mobile phones had just started existing. Coverage isn't universal NOW, so back then it was even less, and Jack and Janet are archeologists (or archeologist adjacent?) so they're going to be in less developed and populated areas most of the time. It's unlikely they'd have consistent access to a functional phone that could call the states to talk to Tim regularly.
This isn't to defend their absence, because fuck that, but it's to give it some context. I don't think they were trying to ignore or abandon Tim. Communication was just not readily available and Janet seems to get wrapped up in work...and Jack's an asshole.
Also for note, Janet is probably the one sending Tim postcards in the first place. It being signed "Mom and Dad" is what makes me think that. Jack would have put himself first if he wrote it, it woulda said "Dad and Mom". That's admittedly pure speculation, BUT IT FITS SOOOOOO
My thought is if this were made modern, Janet would be sending extremely scattered texts and Tim would get next to nothing from Jack unless Janet prompted him.
END EDIT
(Fair warning, this story is a few levels of Yikes, but I'm gonna stay on topic)
Bad guy Obeah Man does...something? to the pilot, and they crash, and he has a group of people kidnap the Drakes and their assistant Jeremy.
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Danger really puts some things in perspective, for Janet, at least. And that continues for her. Jack is a bit delusional and in denial, thinking he has any control of the situation.
They are tied up and filmed for ransom, their assistant killed right in front of them.
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Jack just keeps raging, but Janet is having regrets. Notice how she doesn't cry until Tim is brought up. Could be nothing, could be something.
And then she dies.
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Her only other major appearance is when Tim is having a fever dream from the Clench and everything is kind of okay for a minute.
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Tim very clearly loves his mom. And we may not get a lot of characterization for her, but she's not cold or callous like people write her constantly.
And now, we finally have a little more about her as of Batman 134.
I haven't really been keeping up since the Gotham War stuff because What The Fuck Was That My Guy, but I recently saw this specific comic.
The multiverse is fucked up again, some way some how, and Bruce is lost (again) and Tim has to get him back (again). This time, Tim is going in after him. But he doesn't end up going straight to Bruce.
He goes to see an alt of his mom.
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Tim missed her so much that he ended up going to her before Bruce.
And her immediate reaction is to run up and hug him. Does that look like a mother who doesn't love her son?
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"Do you have anyone to take care of you?"
"I don't know how this happened, this miracle...but I just know, in my heart of hearts, it was to show me...that every version of my son is a good one."
Tell me again that this woman is heartless and didn't want her son, I fucking dare you.
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And we get more meaning to the name "Robin" and a little crumb about Tim's grandmother. As a treat.
This is all to say, please stop writing Janet Drake as a cold, heartless bitch.
Small final note though: Jack Drake is, in fact, a shitty person and a shitty father. He does still love Tim and Tim loves him AND THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE, but the relationship is a mess. If either parent is actively abusive, it's 1000% Jack "smashed a TV because my son wasn't listening to me and threatened Bruce Wayne at gunpoint" Drake. Probably part of why the marriage was falling apart.
Anyway, yeah, let's retire the "Jack and Janet Drake are Bad Parents" tag and replace it with "Jack Drake is a Bad Parent" and "Janet Drake's C+ Parenting" or something.
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Was Star really supposed to be Asha's love interest in the beginning of the development of Disney's Wish?
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I keep seeing this being brought up everywhere, appearing even on Trivia TikTok videos about the movie, but as far as I know this is coming from a deeply misunderstanding of the development process.
The main idea is that Star-boy was supposed to be Asha's love interest and that At All Costs was supposed to be their love song.
Seeing the concept arts of Star-boy I can see where most people are coming from. I'm also think that Asha and him are definitely shippable.
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However, in the Art of Wish, Star-boy was just the third stage of the character development, and on that stage he was meant to be Asha's deceased grandfather reborn. On the first stage he was supposed to be a shapeshifter and on the final stage a ball of pure energy.
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You can say they missed the opportunity of having Star stay as a magical boy like Peter Pan, but it's clear that on that stage his relationship with Asha was probably going to be platonic. No romance here.
Then why do At All Costs sound so much like a love song?
Luckily for us, Jennifer Lee, one of the writers for the film and chief creative officer of the Walt Disney Animation Studios, and Julia Michaels, the songwriter for the movie, gave an interview to Variety explaining their reasons.
The song “At All Costs,” sung by Asha and King Magnifico, was important to Lee. The song navigates the importance of the wishes to each of them, and the two are emotionally aligned here. Lee pushed for a song expressing this. “You had to understand what it felt like to hold someone’s wish in your hand. How do we viscerally understand that when you’re with them, you feel like you’re holding someone’s raison d’être?” she says. “You can’t do this in any other way but song.
Since there was no love song in the film, Michaels wanted to write a song that as a standalone sounded like a love song that could be played at weddings. Yet in the context of the film, it’s about the heroine and villain. Says Michaels, “How cool would it be if we wrote a song that if you listened to on its own, it sounds like a love song, it could be something you could play at your wedding, or be a lullaby to your kids, just something really beautiful, but when you watch the film, it’s the heroine and it’s the villain.” She continues, “You realize they’re coming about this both from various points, one from a very selfless standpoint and one from a selfish standpoint.”
Basically Jennifer Lee wanted a song about the importance of the the wishes for both Asha and Magnifico, but Julia Michaels wanted to write a love song. As there were no opportunities to write a love song, Michaels wrote At All Costs to sound like one.
But in the demo, they sing "Love you, as one does", instead of "Promise, as one does"?
Probably Julia Michaels wanted to write a love song, but had to tone it down so as to not confuse the audience. Clearly, it didn't work that well.
Disney is lying!
Why would Disney lie about the development of Wish? As far as I know, there's nothing to hide, no scandals, no controversies.
Jenifer Lee is literally the chief creative officer, the highest ranking position of the creative team within the Walt Disney Animation Studios. She along Allison Moore WROTE the screenplay and she is part of the team that came up with that story. Wish was her brainchild. Why would she need to lie?
Maybe higher ups like Bob Iger and Bob Chapek screwed with the project. That's completely possible. Maybe we learn later some big and super shady controversy in the development of the movie.
But, by the time being, with all the evidences available, Wish seems to be the story she and others of the studio wanted to tell, even if general audiences reacted badly.
And so far, no evidence of romance.
Unless someone comes out with some legitimate evidence of the contrary, Star was never supposed to be Asha's love interest, and everything else is consequence of fans being dissatisfied with the end product and wanting for something more Disney-like.
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I promised myself that I wasn't going to get involved in fandom conversations anymore but I need to talk about this, because I'm thinking about Tommy Kinard and how he was initially introduced to us. He was such an asshole to both Hen and Chimney, and in both of their begin episodes we start seeing him start to change and grow. And that by Bobby Begins, he's already closer to the Tommy we know now than the jerk we met in the beginning.
And now getting to know Tommy in this new light as Buck's love interest makes me so fucking soft when you think about his characterization as a closeted gay man during those earlier years. And how his and Buck's dating arc has been so sweet??? Tommy has become such a kind person who thinks about how his words and actions affect others. We see it clearly in the way he's been with Buck, how careful he's been from the very start with him.
He stopped their relationship from progressing because he felt like he was pressuring Buck for something he wasn't ready for. Because he's been there!!! He's been in his shoes where he's figuring out his sexuality while working in a field where it's harder to come out as anything but straight. Even after their first kiss, Tommy checks in with Buck.
He follows his lead in literally everything and it's so kind!!! And it's really the bare minimum of what a person should do for their partners and people in general, but thinking about who Tommy used to be and who he is now makes me so soft!!! Because we as the viewer also know that this change in him occurred with the help of Hen and Chimney and having befriended them. They changed him for the better!!!! And even though he didn't spend that much time with Bobby as his captain, he still helped with that positive change!!!
Anyway, I know this wasn't done on purpose by the writers, but I love that they brought back a character that we already knew bits and pieces of, a character that has come back into the story every now and then, and it accidentally turned into a very nicely developed character (so far)
Which makes me so much more excited to see where they'll take Tommy's characterization if he sticks around.
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neyafromfrance95 · 23 days
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I really don’t understand why people are so divided on Celeborn. Like he’s always just been there and I never expected TROP to change that. Sure he’s boring but I can acknowledge that for Galadriel he makes sense and that she does love him. It doesn’t effect the intrigue of her relationship with Sauron which already existed well before TROP. It’s just that the show was smart enough to realize that and flesh it out. I think some fans have a provincial view on love and don’t understand that various layers of it can exist without detracting from the other. I can believe that Galadriel is in love and happy with Celebron and STILL feels a cosmic soul connection to Sauron. I think the writers understand that this is the meat of this adaptation because there’s a reason certain tropes are classics; the whole dark/light, good/evil push and pull. On a different note it also makes me wonder why people feel the need to whitewash Sauron’s character as this man who wants to try to be ‘good’ in order to ship him and Galadriel. I think s2 makes it very clear that he is at his core a dark and evil entity who at the very most finds human morality an interesting curiosity and warps ideas of goodness for his own gain. And monsters can still feel love, like I think he definitely feels connected to Galadriel and will only ever feel as deeply as he is capable for another being, for her. But because he is what he is, he has no problem manipulating her for what he thinks is best for her and ultimately what serves himself. They are on totally different ends in how they perceive the world and yet they see each other so clearly. This is what makes it interesting for me at least. Anyway let me stop rambling now lol
yeah, i agree.
i see celeborn as this emotional support husband who (unlike many other male characters in lotr) doesn't "dominate" his wife and is rather her follower. there is a good malewife potential for him, lol. and he is pretty much just a background "husband" character, not taking away the spotlight from galadriel.
and yes, just bc galadriel ends up married to celeborn and they might have a nice soft relationship doesn't mean that she doesn't have a far more special and deep connection with sauron, more passionate and poetic even.
but the reason why they can't be together and the whole tragic beauty of sauron x galadriel is that her gaze is fixed on the light while he is the darkness incarnate. and the fact that sauron is this irredeemable evil yet still loves galadriel and her only but in his own twisted way is what makes it more fascinating!
i wish we could allow female characters to have complicated, complex and flawed relationships instead of trying to limit them to the simple wholesome and easily digestible ones.
that being said, i don't really think it's gonna be interesting to focus on galadriel's relationship with celeborn in trop. we know their story already, we've seen them together in other media. this is the story of galadriel x sauron and taking the focus away from this relationship by introducing celeborn would be far from compelling or satisfying development. that's the reason i don't really want to see him until the end of the show.
(also, again, the reason for celeborn demand and discourse is that a lot of incelbros want galadriel to be this tame wifey and they think celeborn is going to come and take away her sword, and a lot of moralists want us to stop shipping "taboo" ships such as sauron x galadriel.)
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I find Trevor from shameless the most frustrating characther.
When he first introduced, I really liked him, the way he could really help Ian explore life outside of his southside world and more of the LGBT world was interesting. And I love the actor who plays him, but his character just did not work, and I know why. It was bad writing. (Also, I have to admit I didn't feel the chemistry between the actors, even if they were both playing their roles well.)
Now, first off, I think that Shameless really dropped the ball in writing new characters after season 5 or 6. Especially love interests. In the early seasons, all the Gallagher's interests were people outside of their relationship with a Gallagher. Love or hate them. I could tell you plenty about them, and they interacted and had storylines outside of their love interest.
I mean, think of Karen, Jimmy, Mandy, Shelia, Mickey and even Svetlana.l. They were all interesting outside of just being a love interest, and they all had personality and backgrounds. I really think Shameless lost that in their later seasons writing.
See Kelly, Trevor, Tammi, Caleb, Ford and Cassidy for example. It felt like they purely existed to only further thier LIs storyline. Even the writing of Mickey, when he returned as a main character, wasn't as in-depth as it was in either early seasons.l and just seemed to be more to drive storyline and comedy than in-charachter for him
So, back to Trevor. I wanted to like him, and I did for his first few episodes, but his writing frustrates me so complelty. I think as a person who also works in social services, his actions and contradictions make no sense. So in the episode that Mickey comes back when Ian goes to see him, he is really busy because his trying to place a kid. And when he thinks if he can't, he says he may have to just let them crash on his couch. Which pinged me as completely inappropriate as a social services worker as you can never have a child just say on your couch like that as you are crossing so many professional boundaries and as he rightfullylayer says can give the wrond ide. But in S8, when Ian has that girl stay over, he (rightfully) tells Ian that is completely inappropriate and then gets really mad at him for it, which just made him annoyingly hypocritical.
He is apparently working with at risk youth and abused kids, yet he tells Ian that Monica is trying and to give her another chance as Ian is being unfair to her, that he is being to hard in her. Crazy. I could not think of a single person in this job who would have that attitude towards neglectful or problematic parents. Because anyone in this job would know setting boundaries is healthy and that anyones trauma is thiers to feel how they feel about. Same with the way he treats Ian's grief after losing Monica. When he takes him to the place with the chubby guys, they lost me completely.
Then we have the idea that Ian was clearly sprialing later in S8 and going off his meds, but Trevor seems unaware even though anyone could see it let alone someone with any kind of training.
His writing is just so bad and seems literally to be only to serve Ian's storyline and screw his character development outside of that. Especially in S8. Then he doesn't even appear at Ian's court preceding and just disappears
I think he could have been good for Ian. And I think with the lack of chemistry I felt between them maybe they should have just been friends after the whole cheating thing. And maybe it's the fact that Cameron's chemistry is off the charts with Noel that made it really feel like he had none with Caleb or Trevor but that doesn't make up for bad writing. I get that writing a new post-Mickey love interest is hard after how much fans love him, but the writers can only blame themselves for that too as the never wrote a good ending storyline for a loved charcther they though was leaving for good at end of S5.
Shameless really lost a lot for me when they stopped writing their supporting character as interesting people outside of their relationship.
Trevor is my example charcther of that. That actor deserved better.
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linkspooky · 5 months
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Judai and Yubel's Chemical Wedding
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A chemical wedding is central to many alchemy stories.
A chemical wedding is a reconciliation of opposites, often with the most significant character relationship to the protagonist. A relationship which destroys and then remakes them in the better version of themselves.
Jung said that relatioships are chemical reaction. If you have a reaction you can never return to your previous state of being. That's ultimately the role of a chemical wedding in a story. A relationship which is central to a character's development, and changes both parties.
Yubel isn't just important for Judai's character development, they're literally his other half and their union of opposites completes them both in an alchemical sense. Keep on reading below the cut for a lesson in alchemy symbolism.
Peter Pan's Missing Shadow
So, the story goes somewhere in the middle of developing season two the writers recognizing that Judai, would never be able to handle a Marik level antagonist. He lacked maturity compared to the previous series protagonist Atem. The concept of Yubel emerged to make Judai grow, because as he was, he wasn't enough.
Judai fits the archetype of the hot-blooded shonen protagonist almost perfectly in the first two seasons, but even in two seasons where he changes very little as a character the hints are there.
Sho immediately puts Judai on a pedestal, and soon so does everyone else. Judai is praised for his pure heart over, and over. The standards for Judai are set so high you begin to wonder what if Judai wasn't the person everyone sees him as?
At this point is it even Judai that his friends are seeing?
What does that do to a person's identity when everyone around you is love with the idea of you. When you're not seen as a person with flaws.
Judai doesn't grow but how can he, when he's not really allowed to make mistakes. When he's expected to always be cheerful, and always bounce back without help or support.
Judai is pure of heart, but is anybody really pure? The light always casts a shadow.
Jung pioneered a lot of analytical psychology theory. Jung divided the psyche into four parts, the persona which is how we externally engage with the world our public face, the animus and anima masculinity and femininity, and finally the shadow.
Complementary to Jung’s idea of the persona, which is “what oneself as well as others thinks one is” [CW9 para 221], the “shadow is that hidden, repressed, for the most part inferior and guilt-laden personality [...] that is his shadow does not consist only of morally reprehensible tendencies, but also displays a number of good qualities, such as normal instincts, appropriate reactions, realistic insights, creative impulses etc “ 
The shadow isn't made up of bad qualities, just what we are afraid to show others because of judgement. Hidden as it may be, the shadow is a fundamental part of your personality.
Jung had a deep interest in the shadow – its form and content – and in the process of assimilating “the thing a person has no wish to be” [CW16, para 470]. He saw quite clearly that failure to recognize, acknowledge and deal with shadow elements is often the root of problems in relationships.
Is a friendship with someone real if you're afraid to show any of your flaws?
Juda's never allowed to make mistakes around his friends. He's under constant pressure to fight their battles, to fear he might lose them if he loses.
Ryo, a foil and rival Judai suffers a complete breakdown after losing just one duel. Before that he spelled it out for Judai in the graudation duel, the "perfection" everyone expected limited his growth, until he finally fell apart. If one loss makes Ryo fall then how much farther does Judai who's under more pressure have to fall?
Judai hides his shadow from everyone, but the shadow isn't just a part of you. The shadow is you. You are your shadow. Which is why recognizing the shadow is a critical part of growth - and alchemy. As Jung once said, "The gold is in the dark. And one does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.” 
Judai's in unable to grow up, because like Peter Pan is missing his shadow. It needs to be retrieved and sewn back to his feet. Until then, he's stunted and missing an important part of himself.
Judai is missing something important without his shadow. I'm not pulling this from thin air, it's directly stated by the text repeatedly.
Here.
Kouji Satou: We have something that you lack. Judai: That I lack? Kouji Satou: Yes the darkness of the heart that slumbers deep within a duelist. The burden that a duelist bears in his heart. Judai, you have none of that.
Here.
Cobra: You are certainly a talented duelist. But you have one fatal flaw. Judai: A fatal flaw? Cobra: Yes, your duels are superficial. Someone who fights with nothing on his shoulders, cannot recover once he loses his enjoyment. What a duelist carries on his shoulders will become the power that supports him when he’s up against the wall! Cobra: But you have nothing like that! Those who go through life without anything like that cannot possibly seize victory. Cobra: But I know that nothing I say will resonate with you… because you have nothing to lose but the match.
Even, by Judai himself.
Judai: They’re all… They’re all gone. There really was something missing in me. But what is it? What was missing? What should a duelist burden themselves with?
I often worry people will misinterpret Judai's ending with Yubel is unhealthy because he's "caving to the demands of a stalker."
Yubel's not a stalker, they're not even a real person. Judai's a character in a story, experiencing an arc about learning to accept and grow path his worst flaws. How could that arc end with throwing away Yubel, who represents the ugliness Judai tries to hide?
Yubel is Judai's shadow, run away from him just like Peter Pan. Yubel's more than just a cast-off shadow though, Yubel is Judai. A good example of two separate characters coded as each other's shadows in other literature is Katherine and Heathcliff, two characters designed specifically to be two halves of a whole. Katherine once said, "I am Heathcliff", or to be specific she said:
 My great miseries in this world have been Heathcliff’s miseries, and I watched and felt each from the beginning: my great thought in living is himself. If all else perished, and he remained, I should still continue to be; and if all else remained, and he were annihilated, the universe would turn to a mighty strange: I should not seem a part of it [...] Nelly, I am Heathcliff! Katherine - Wuthering Heights
So these are two different topics, shadow as a literary foil, and shadow as an aspect of peresonaity in Jungian psychology, yubel is both.
Yubel is the archetypal shadow character, a character who challenges the main character by being their internalized flaws made external.
In a Jungian text when a character won't look at their shadow, they're often forced to look by being confronted with an externalized version of their shadow.
This is the first line of dialogue Yubel says that's not chanting Judai's name in episode 117 to Amon.
Yubel: My power is not especially great. But those with darkness in their hearts can unleash great power in me. Yubel: The pus welling out of your injured heart forms a second heart. I can see that other heart. The darkness in it. Yubel: That's right. That is the darkness of your heart. it's there, in the depths of your mind. Th scream of your other heart, born from your stagnant blood!
Yubel's go-to strategy with manipulation is to throw in a character's face the secrets they've been hiding to make them more liable to their will. Until Yubel can reconstitute their own body, they're forced to act entirely through others, possessing Cobra, then Martin, and finally Johan.
Yubel, the runaway shadow can't exist in this world without glueing themselves onto someone else. Can't be whole without Judai.
Yubel: You'll formally become king. Yubel: It must be great to have your wishes come true. But then, who's going to be happy for you? Yubel: Living in a way that suits you. The one who'd be most happy for you would be that "echo" woman that you loved, am I right? Yubel: But you went and let her die. You won't even be able to see her celebrate, isn't that a bit weird to you? Amon: Silence... Yubel: I know I couldn't stand it. A world without the one I love. It's because of Judai I can feel pain, angiush, and agony.
They say it over and over again, a world without the person you love, even a perfect one like Amon imagines, isn't worth living in.
Yubel: I wouldn't want to live in such a world! Yubel: The world is a place that you make alongside the one you love! What Judai and I make together... that will be the world!
It seems like a one-sided dependence on Yubel's part, but because Yubel is Judai's shadow, Judai cannot exist without them either.
Yubel was literally introduced into the story to spur Judai's character growth after two seasons of stagnation.
Judai seems better off without Yubel. Judai even suggests as much, that it might have been better for Yubel to die in that crater, than crawl back to Judai in their wounded and hateful state.
It seems that Yubel's reapperance triggered Judai's breakdown, and without it the breakdown never would have happend. However, there's two seasons of foreshadowing that JUdai is "missing something" without Yubel, which is why they can't grow or adapt to new circumstances. Judai needed to go through a death of his old self, a loss of innocence to become someone new, that's how alchemy works, that's how growing up works.
JUdai needed to reintegrate his shadow (Yubel) so he could become aware of his flaws, and while he does hit a low point, in the aftermath he can finally better himself.
The question is what flaws of Judai does Yubel reflect?
At first brush they seem as opposed to each other as hero and villain.
There's a tragic symmetry to the way both of them lived their lives for the past ten years. They began in the same place, Judai's childhood was just the two of them together. Then Yubel drove all of Judai's friends away, and Judai sent Yubel away in return.
Ten years go by and Judai attends Duel Academy and makes friends for the first time. He learns of his destiny was the one to protect Neo-Space and the Neo-Spacians led him their power helping awake within him the power of the gentle darkness. Judai spends almost two years almost always surrounded by people, alone in the center of a crowd.
At the same time Yubel has spent the past ten years alone in space, crying out for help from Judai. When they finally return to earth they ask for help one final time only to be met with silence. In that moment Yubel decides that silence is their answer, that abadoning Yubel, ignoring their screams of pain and forgetting them was all Judai's way of showing love.
Judai awakens his powers of the gentle darkness, whereas Yubel is corrupted by the light of destruction. Judai receives the help of everyone around them, Yubel only survives by manipulating several people to eventually crawl their way back to Judai.
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They started at the same point, but by the time they meet again they're completely unrecognizable to each other.
As easy as it is to see them as villain and victim you can flip their roles too. As Judai is responsible for the chain of events that led to Yubel's torture, from Yubel's point of view they are the victim and Judai the villain.
It's unfair to hold a decsion they made when they were five against him. However, abandoning Yubel is a choice Judai continually makes, even after learning Yubel's undergone ten years of torture they were responsible for.
Judai: Yubel didn't come into being by coincidence. I made them who they are.
Judai continually ignores Yubel to search for Johan. However, he's not responsible for Johan. Johan made the choice to sacrifice himself. Wanting to save Johan isn't bad of course, but wanting Johan back is about what Johan represents to Judai not who he is as a person.
Yubel rightfully points out Judai will go so far to save Johan, but won't lift a finger to help them.
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In fact Judai's obsession with Johan, is a narrative flaw (one Yubel reflects for the audience). It leads to his destruction.
Sho even calls him out, his willingness to sacrifice anyone, including his friends for Johan's sake. It's selfishness on his part. To quote this post:
The way he goes after both after Johan in season three and O’Brien shows that he actually doesn’t care all that much for them as people. To him, they represent a concept: Victory, or at the very least atonement for his past actions. A convenient way to right what he did wrong.  That is not to say that he doesn’t like them as people - he does. But when the chips are down, what he ultimately wanted was a chance to redeem himself by saving them. 
Yubel's obsessive pursuit of Judai to the destruction of everyone else, reflects Judai's obsessive pursuit of Johan destroying his friends.
To quote the above post again.
Yubel is a deeply selfish person as well. However, it’s a different kind of selfish. Yubel has exactly one priority: Juudai. Anyone or anything that isn’t Juudai doesn’t matter, and Yubel will go after Juudai no matter the situation and no matter the consequences. 
They're both two deeply selfish people and Yubel is needed to cast a light of this selfish side of Judai. When the two of them are compared though the image blurs, Yubel doesn't have the right to take their pain out on Judai's friends, but Judai goes on to later do the same thing.
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"But then that's the nature of love, isn't it? I wanted all that torment to convey the depth of my love."
Judai rightfully calls out Yubel's involvement of innocent people, but it's hypocrisy on his part. He doesn't have the moral high ground here. Yubel's suffering doesn't entitle them to take out said suffering on Judai's friends, but Judai also slaughtered innocents as the supreme king.
Judai framing Yubel's reaction as revenge is ignoring his own flaws and role in things. Sharing pain = understanding = empathy for Yubel. Yubel wants to be understood, but Judai wants to ignore his shadow.
Yubel's strategy is a kid of forced empathy - to drag Judai down to their level and make Judai understand the same pain so Judai will understand them.
I'm going to quote another post again, this post here.
In her desperation to grasp why she was being made to suffer if Judai loved her, it makes a certain amount of sense that she would latch on to the suffering itself as being something Judai wanted for her.  (She knows and admits this isn’t true, btw, but it’s the only thing that allows her even a tenuous grip on sanity)  Then, when she was in a position to meet him again, her own views on love would allow her to subconsciously justify making him suffer the same way because her pain had left their life experiences too disparate to form a meaningful connection once more.  And the hilarious thing is that she was ultimately right?  Yanking Judai down to her level is what allowed Judai to understand her in a way that was impossible before he had his own little fit of love-induced murder spree. I think what people sort of miss is that what Judai is reviling her and calling her an unfeeling monster near the beginning of their duel, he’s the one that’s wrong.
This symmetry they eventually reach where they both become perpetrators shows the biggest thing they share in common: trauma, and how they react to it.
Trauma comes to define both Judai and Yubel, but they react in different ways.
Yubel externalizes their trauma, the same trauma Judai hides internally. What Judai conceals, Yubel by acting out their grief on others reveals.
Yubel wears their heart on their sleeve for all intents and purposes. They will act out their pain on others, gleefully, sadistically so. Their entire philosophy of love revolves around the idea that intentionally inflicting pain as a show of love.
However, as stated above that's a coping mechanism. When Yubel says they want to share pain with Judai, it's not revenge, it's a desire for empathy and understanding. Yubel wraps themselves in a blanket of love, to endure years of torture they suffered alone.
Yubel can't just ask for Judai's love though, they demand it.
This too is Yubel shielding themselves, they're coping with their abandonment trauma. Yubel can endure any pain inflicted on them if they convince themselves that Judai still cares, they can crawl out of a crater if it might lead them back to Judai. If Judai rejects them however, they completely fall apart.
Judai too, is protecting himself from fears of abandonment.
Judai's coping method is opposite, he internalizes all his emotions. The pressure of having to constantly rescue his friends, his fears that he can't lose once, or else he'll lose everything. Judai hides it under a smile, and a fun loving attitude.
Judai even states point blank, the reason he always runs forward is because if he stops to think he won't be able to continue. Judai compartmentalizes everything, and it all starts to pile up so high that if he just can't process it.
Judai: I can’t just stay and wait. All this time I’ve run on instinct, never second-guessing myself. If I just stand still now… I’m sure I won’t be able to start running again. And I won’t be able to get to Johan.
Even Judai taking on his friend's burdens, is done out of a fear of being alone. In his backstory Yubel drove all his friends away and it doesn't seem like he made friends until he came to Duel Academia.
Yubel and Judai both spent a significant amount of time alone, and they both fear going back to that time.
When Judai takes on other's burdens, it's a way to protect himself. If he's constantly doing them favors, they have to stick around right? It's still a transactional relationship though, the same way Yubel thinks all of their love entitles them to Judai's love.
Judai's method is to internalize everything. That seems better than Yubel, because Judai's not hurting anybody right? Except Judai's owbmethod of coping turns out to be just as unhealthy as Yubel's.
Judai carries the weight of everyone on his shoulders until he can't.
Judai's fears of being abandoned become a reality.
It's telling that Judai's breaking point isn't Fubuki, Sho, Asuka and Manjoume's apparent deaths. He's deeply upset by it for sure, but what pushes him over the edge is Sho's rejection afterwards.
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Judai's friends being taken away in circumstances out of his control is one thing, but the fact that Sho leaves him? That Sho sees the part of Judai's self that he's always been hiding and gives up on him. That rejection sends him spiraling, because all along Judai was driven by the same fear of rejection Yubel was.
When Judai reaches his breaking point, he externalizes all the trauma he held within. He starts sacrificing others for power, because he's convinced himself with his friends gone power is what he has left. Judai acts out that trauma on others, as Yubel does with Judai's friends.
In the end Yubel and Judai react the same way to being abandoned, they share the same flaws and the same fears.
Rejecting Yubel, villainizing them, despising them is an act of self-loathing for Judai. However, empathizing with them, understanding, trying to reach out a had to break the painful cycle between them - is Judai accepting himself.
Chemical Wedding
Judai and Yubel become their worst selves when they are alone, they walk parallel journeys in season 3 dragging down Judai to Yubel's level until at last they finally reunite.
This metaphorical union is a chemical wedding, of two opposites coming together. How Judai and Yubel's relationship changes throughout the narrative is vital to how they develop. Their bond develops each of their characters, until they integrate qualities of each other.
The final stage is called a wedding, it's not necessarily romantic but Yubel's 10,000 love confessions can certainly be interpreted that way.
Once again it's not really about what's healthy in a real life relatioship, it's a symbolic journey two characters take in a story. Yu-Gi-Oh Gx uses chemical weddings to develop the romantic relationship between Judai and Yubel.
(What about Bruno - I'll talk about him later next post. Please be patient, I can't cover everything in one post).
Here's another meta on the concept of chemical wedding's in general for a different show. The chemical wedding between Judai and Yubel is woven into the text in may ways.
The show is rife with direct references to alchemical imagery (references to medieval portraits, the solar king and the lunar queen)
A process of death ad rebirth they both undergo multiple times, until their last union where Judai says he might be destroyed by the attempt to fuse with super-poly but he doesn't mind).
The four elements are referenced in the clash between Judai and Yubel, Judai is fire and air - their favorite monster is flame wingman an air and fire hero combined. Yubel is water and earth, their entire deck has a plant motif).
The two of them literally fuse together into someone new. That act is what purifies Yubel's soul by uniting it with Judai, the process of alchemy is purifying metals until they forge gold.
Yubel is also literally a hermaphrodite, and by incorporating Yubel into themselves the two of them together become a hermaphroditic figure.
So that’s the role and importance of the chemical wedding.  Pretty vague, right? But over the centuries the most common imagery has been a man and woman--often King Sol/Sulphur and Queen Luna/Mercury--1. standing together, 2. conjoined, or 3. combined into a hermaphroditic figure.  -In the Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery, Lyndy Abraham definition of chemical wedding.
The basic formula of a chemical wedding is the union of opposites (Fire and water, air ad earth, sun and moon, light and dark), that union creating a "Rebis", a figure that is both male and female. Judai and Yubel's journey takes them on a path to uniting as one.
It's a violent sometimes dangerous process as in each step dissolve et coagula occurs, in order to forge your better self you have to let your old self dissolved, which is sometimes a violent even painful process.
It's why Chemical Weddings often take the form of violent conflict. A conflict that threatens to destroy both parties.
The first chemical wedding is usually somewhat violent, primitive even, whereas the second one signifies the creation of the stone. However, characters can have more than two weddings (Hamliet).
Yubel and Judai have three violent confrontations in Season 3, before their final union of opposites take place. The three weddings are the three steps in their journey. It's also a process where both experience several metaphorical deaths, before finally their two souls unite into something new (which is why the ship is called Soulshipping).
SOULSHIPPING WEDDINGS - STAGE ONE
Alchemy is a process of continual death and rebirth. Yubel and Judai both go through two symbolic deaths, (the second one they die together to reforge themselves into something new).
Yubel's first death takes place sometime during season 1 and 2. The satellite containing them finally crashes back to earth, and Yubel burns up upon re-entry. Putrefecation, or Nigredo is the first stage of alchemy a process of boiling away all impurities, and it's associated with the element of fire, and associated with the color black. Yubel's spirit form of a black dragon comes out to protect them, and that burns away too. Nigredo is often signified with the death of a dragon.
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Yubel comes close to death, but their true death is metaphorical.
What Yubel truly experiences is the death of their old self, as the trauma they've endured makes someone new crawl out of the wreckage.
This is the moment onscreen where Yubel snaps and adopts their new philosophy of love, that love is sharing pain with someone else.
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Yubel literally crawls out of earth, out of a crater that could have easily been the sight of their grave. However, their rebirth comes when Yubel reconstitutes themselves in time to meet Judai face to face a second time.
Yubel's true form is revealed then to be that of a rebis.
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The head on the left is male, the wing attached to his side is red. The head on the right side is female; the wing attached to her side is white and in her hand she holds an egg. This figure is known as the Hermaphrodite, half man and half woman.
Yubel's design is a Rebis, split male and female down the middle. It's even implied in their backstory they were more masculine, and through an alchemical process to become a dragon altered their body to look as such, giving them several feminine traits.
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Yubel as one boob and one pec, speaks in two voices a deep masculine one and a light feminine one, defaults to using masculine "ore", but plays a feminine role to comparison Judai's more straighforward masculinity, they even have their face split one side being drawn with eyelashes. The image above is the hermaphrodite and the dragon, Yubel is both.
Yubel can be a reference to the greek story of the hermaphodite or the concept of the Hindu god "Ardanareshwara" which translates to "Lord wo is half woman." Likely both, they have a third eye on their forehead in the place of a bindi in traditional depictions of that god.
Ardanareshwara is the embodiment of the union of male and female energies in the universe, as well as the sacredness of marriage and copulation. [Mythcrafts]
The Splender Solis pictured above are images from the ripley scroll, a in alchemy text. There are 22 plates total, but plates 5-11 are called the parallels they reference the process of death and rebirth.
The seven parables are:
Plate 5 - Miners excavating a hill
Plate 6 - Philosophers beside a tree
Plate 7 - The drowning king
Plate 8 - Resurrection out of the swamp
Plate 9 - Hermaphrodite with an egg
Plate 10 - Severing the head of the king
Plate 11 - The bath
Season 3 goes through all seven, quickly covering the first two plate 5 is mining the Rainbow Dragon out of the side of a mountain, Philosophers beside a tree is Johan's deck using crystal tree, and also Judai awakens after Austin snaps him from his Haou phase underneath a tree.
Judai and Yubel's parallel journeyes reference plates 7-11, #9 was already pictured above.) They both experience two deaths, two rebirths, before their final third union.
Yubel's second death occurs here, at the hands of another dragon (Rainbow dragon is involved).
The first chemical wedding is usually somewhat violent, as metals need to be melted down and reforged through multiple steps in order to create a purer metal.
Judai definitely doesn't want to unite with Yubel their first encounter, they're at each other's throats, in fact Yubel specifically states they want violence, to share as much pain with Judai as possible.
Yubel ends the first wedding literally dissolving gain right in front of Judai's eyes, only to reforge themselves with Johan's body.
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Those are Yubel's two deaths, and Judai's two deaths happen in parallel.
SOULSHIPPING WEDDINGS - STAGE TWO
Yubel is the process of two people breaking down, and mixing until they acquire each other's traits. Yubel pushing Judai down the path of becoming the supreme king, so they can be reunited again is exactly that.
Yubel's plan is to force drag Judai down to their level, so they can be reunited, and at that point Judai having walked a similar path and taken on traits of their can understand them, they tell Judai as much.
So when I solved the riddle you posed I was delighted. ANd that fueled my decision. I would try to fill the entire twelve-dimmension universe with my love towards you, Judai. And once I did, you would have to recognize my loev wouldn't you? That's why I sought to fill all those linked to you, your world, with sadness and anguish. And my line of thinking wasn't wrong!
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Judai has to go through a process of two deaths mirroring Yubel's own before he can reunite with them in their second wedding. Yubel even says, the first time they dueled didn't work out, because Judai hadn't awakened his darkness of the heart yet. Judai needed to take on Yubel's traits.
Judai's journey to Yubel is referenced by two Splender Solaris plates.
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"The destruction of one thing is the birth of another " - Aristotle.
The plate depicts an old king drowning, and a new king being reborn at the same time.
The text describes to us how the old king was taken under, but then reborn the next day from the earth as the new king; the old king must die before the new king is born.
Judai's first death is his breakdown after Sho's rejection, he quite literally experiences a death or self, while at the same time rising up as the supreme king - but it's not a split personality or anything like that, merely an inversion. Judai once internalized their pain, now they externalize like Yubel. Yubel in acquiring darkness of the heart, Judai then begins to take on Yubel's traits, integrating facets of Yubel into themselves.
Within the stages of physical alchemy there is a set referred to as the drowning king; this is the dissolution step of the Nigredo process. This is when the alchemists would take their chemically calcified ashes and dissolve them into water.
Judai experiences the same Nigredo that Yubel does, as his old self dissolves away. Judai sinks into a mental landscape which is pictured as all black, while a new Judai the supreme king assumes his form out of the shadows. The new king has golden eyes, like the new king in the painting is dressed in gold.
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This is where Judai begins taking on parts of Yubel, not only do they lash out at innocent people as Yubel does, don a plate of armor to protect themselves (Judai has black armor, Yubel has impenetrable scales).
It's also a direct parallel to Yubel's experiences. Judai is left alone by the friends who he thought would always take his side and sinks into darkness. Yubel spends years alone in what they call "a capsule of darkness" in space after Judai's abandonment, sinking into denial because Judai couldn't possibly treat them this way when they love them so much.
Judai dies and is replaced by the supreme king, but the supreme king is a just a temporary stage in his development.
In order for Judai to heal he needs to be dismembered first, the Supreme King's head is torn off in a reference to Splendor Solis: Plate 10, severing of the head of the king.
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Alchemy is violent; the motto of Solve Et Coagula demands dissolution before rebuilding, tearing apart before putting back together. This idea applies to the material world as well as the spiritual realm; before the psyche can grow, it has to be ripped asunder.
The Supreme King is eventually stopped by Austin, they burn away in in fire, against a duelist with a flame deck, reduced to ash only to rise from the ash reborn like Yubel did out of the crater.
After the end of the duel, Judai's helmet is removed and thrown for all to see to signify the king's dismemberment.
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Judai now struggles to become someone new, as he cannot return to his previous state of innocence, but can't keep continuing on as the Supreme King. When Yubel and Judai reunite again Judai has taken on so many of Yubel's traits, they are mirror images of one another.
The second stage of alchemy is albedo, the word is taken from ablutio - the washing away of impurities. When Yubel and Judai meet for a second time, Judai's only priority is to cleanse Johan of Yubel's body, literally through purifying Rainbow Dragon in order to return Johan to his body.
His action in the duel is to destroy the "advanced darkness" field spell which changes Johan's crystal beasts, into darkness crystal beasts. First Nigredo, then Albedo, the prima materia is boiled in a flask where all impurities rise to the surface and make a thick black material, and then those impurities are washed away.
Cleansing Johan's soul doesn't go as intended for Judai however, because the only result is that Yubel reconstitutes themselves for a second time and faces Judai again in their true body.
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The cleansing turns from Rainbow Dragon from Black to White and both Yubel and Johan are purified into their true selves.At this point they've both experienced multiple deaths, they've both been torn apart and sewn back together again. However, they still have one stage to go.
The duel ends in a draw and they restart another duel facing each other this time, thus beginning the third and final wedding.
SOULSHIPPING WEDDINGS - STAGE THREE
The final wedding in a chemical wedding forges a philosopher's stone, and I bet you can't guess how this third wedding ends.
Everything so far has made use of the death and rebith imagery. Yubel and Judai grow closer each other through a violent union of opposites (extremely violent in this case ). They experience two metaphorical deaths as a part of their journey to finding each other.
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Death and Rebith is a major theme in the last duel, before they both experience their final death together, to become a new being together.
As I said above they've experienced several violent deaths, Yubel is ripped to pieces until they're nothing more than an arm, Judai experiences an ego death and reforms as the supreme king, before the supreme king's armor is torn off him.
In the third duel Yubel's signature monster experiences two deaths, only to be reborn again into stronger forms, yubel terror incarnate, and yubel the ultimate nightmare.
Yubel starts as a one headed dragon, their second form has two heads, their third they fuse with the dragon becoming the third head representing the three stages of alchemy. In the picture above the red, white and blue signify those three stages as well.
Judai and Yubel are also positioned as the Solar King, and Lunar Queen in their duel, just as in the alchemy painting above.
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The above image  image is taken from is called Rosarium Philosophorum–which literally means “rose garden philosophy. In this case I believe the anime writers are deliberately reference the "rose garden philosophy" name b/c even Yusei and Aki in 5Ds have a similar duel in a Rose Garden that parallels this duel - representing their union of opposites too.
The final duel between Judai and Yubel takes place in a rose garden, intentionally so. Yubel uses two rose themed cards, and their method of attacking and sharing pain nightmare pain revolves around lashing out with a vine covered in rose thorns.
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They're both entangled in the rose garden together, as Yubel says my suffering will become your suffering, Judai. Yubel isn't immune to pain they suffer alongside him, for Judai hurtng Yubel is an act of hurting himself. That's also a reference to the ouroboros, the snake biting it's own tail is a common symbol associated with initiating the alchemical process.
Judai has taken so many traits of Yubel at this point they are inseparably intertwined, there's no telling where Judai ends and Yubel begins so any damage Judai attempts to do is dealt to himself as well.
Standing together in the garden Judai assumes the role of the solar king, and Yubel the lunar queen.
Yubel's machinations were to make Judai ascend into a king, Judai is referred to as being like the sun by Sho drawing everyone in.
Bro... Bro, you're too selfish. Before now, I thought of you as the sun. Someone who gave others energy and made the impossible, possible.
Yubel is the moon which orbits around Judai. There's the time they spent in a literal satellite, floating in space among the stars to signify this. Yubel even drops a reference to the myth of Endymion. A story where Selene, the titan of the moon fell in love with a young boy and asked for them to fall asleep and stay young in their sleep forever so they could gave upon them lovingly as they slept.
I will take you to a distant dimmension, where no one will ever reach you. There I will watch over you as you sleep forever.
Once again Judai is fire, and Yubel is mainly plant themed. Judai assumes a masculine role, Yubel after transforming into a Rebis changed their body to take on feminine traits. Judai is the holder of the gentle darkness, Yubel is corrupted by the light of destruction which is engaged in a battle with the gentle darkness.
Theirs is a violent union of opposites, they are literally trying their best to kill each other.
Yubel frames themself as the selfless protector of Judai like a knight or servant, but their obvious desire is to stand together with Judai and be on the same level with him (hence dragging him down).
They spend a duel against Amon reviling him for how easy Amon could throw Echo away, because ultimately Amon is the king, and therefore Echo is beneath him. In fact Yubel was content to just sacrifice their body like Echo and serve as a protector in a previous life, until prince Judai offered Yubel their eternal love, giving something in return and elevating to them as equals.
So Yubel's primary goal is to be by his side, to be lunar queen to his solar king.
In order to accomplish this the art depicted above has to happen, they both have to dissolve, experience a death and become something new together.
Judai even explicitly tries very hard to kill Yubel, saying they'll use the power of the supreme king to erase them from the universe. Yubel similarly, rejected one too many times responds to violence with violence. Their union is inherently marked by violence. However, it's what brings them to a closer understanding of each other.
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However, while violence brings them closer together, it eventually has to transform into a a union.
As they reach the final stages of the duel, Yubel states to Judai they finally understand that Judai has chosen to respond to all of their love with hate (once again union of opposites, love and hate). At the same time a wind begins to blow, elemental symbolism occurs as the wind and clouds appear in a process of "sublimation", and Judai's past is revealed to him, and he realizes his memory of his past life of the Supreme King.
Sublimate appears as a term for a mineral deposit, by analogy to the alchemical process: minerals in a vapor state, thrown up from the interior of the earth.
The introductory of the element of air also signifies Yubel and Judai moving from Citrinatis, the yellowing, signified by earth to Rubedo the final stage where the philosopher's stone is forged. Judai and Yubel's first duel takes place in a desert (earth), their second they climb high into the sky, and their third they climb even higher until they are standing above the clouds fighting in an arena of air.
Sublimation is a whole new experience of self and reality, both being redefined. Judai's reconciliation isn't just Yubel, it's with the three faces of himself Prince Judai, Regular Judai, and Haou / Supreme King. These memories lead to Judai's eventual decision, to propose a union. This union takes place as the last chemical wedding, which is also a real wedding in everything but name.
Their entire duel contains elements from both japanese and jewish weddings (the three phantasms that Yubel utilizes in the duel against amon are based off of three kabbalistic angels so the jewish symbolism has already been used before).
A traditional Jewish wedding starts with drawing up a marriage contract (Spell Chronicle), and the bride paying out a dowry (the five cards Yubel banishes at the start of the duel). The wedding must be observed by a minimum of two witnesses (Shou and Ojama Yellow). During the wedding the bride circles the groom seven times (Yubel makes 7 successful attacks on Judai between their 3 forms, all others were negated in some way). At the end of the ceremony, the groom presents the bride with a ring (Judai giving Yubel Super Fusion), and a glass is broken to the cry of “Mazel tov!” (the glass window breaking in Samejima’s office). Finally the ceremony isn’t considered complete until the bride and groom retire away from everyone to ... consumate the marriage (Judai and Yubel leaving together). Source [HERE]
Judai attempts to use super polymerization card to start the process of alchemy (fusing the 12 dimmensions - there are 12 steps to Alchemy). However, Judai announces that the two of them are going to fuse together.
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Judai and Yubel's quite literal fusion into one being is the formation of a hermaphrodite. From the essay of "Get your Gender On, Jaden Yuki and Yubel",
Art historian Arturo Schwarz argues that “the Great Work is but a metaphor” in which alchemists don’t create a Rebis but become a metaphorical Rebis themselves, as Judai does over the course of the series. By joining his soul with Yubel’s through “Super Polymerization,” he arguably becomes nonbinary like them. Even before literally fusing with Yubel, he gains “aurea apprehensio (golden awareness) of this marvelous reality: we are gods, because we all are man and woman at one and the same time.” 
Hermaphordadites are a recurring symbol in a lot of greek mythology, the name comes from Hermaprhoditus a son of Hermes and aprhodite originally born male. A female nymph fell in love swam to him in a pool and wound herself tightly around his body and begged the gods to never tear them apart creating the co-joined male and female figure the hermaphrodite. The parallels to Yubel and Judai are present, especially in them becoming entangled in one another.
One origin story for humanity is also that human beings were originally two headed, four armed, and four legged beings, combination of men and women, men and men, and women and women. However, they were torn apart into two seperate beings, and forever doomed to go searching and be reunited with their second half.
When opposites are finally reconciled, the great hermaphrodite is formed. Judai even refers to this as an act of finally purifying the light's corruption from Yubel's soul by uniting it with the supreme king's soul. The union is a purifying process, and the end of Yubel and Judai's long journey of losing each other and finding each other again.
However, in order to be purified they have to both let their old selves die in order to form something new, the final death but one they experience together. Just like the painting of the dismemberment of the solar king and lunar queen, they need to be torn apart and sewn back together again.
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I don't care.
Yubel is finally moved, and all the anger between them is washed away by tears as they're finally allowed to grieve (as death is central to alchemy, so is grief, both are parts of life).
To signify the end of this journey, Judai falls to earth the same way Yubel did at the start of their story. However, while Yubel was suffering, all alone, this time Judai and Yubel are together.
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silviakundera · 3 months
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I've seen you discuss this with other people but I've only made the jump from J dramas to C ones where it's mostly about romance and are c writers allergic women making the same effort in a relationship or... Granted I've only watched dramas from this year at first I thought it was just historical stuff but it's not it's practically every romance drama will love in spring-snowstorm-love endures-in blossom-double-shenli-royal princess-my boss-our interpreter and so on. If she's not outright treating him badly he's a cirque du Soleil contortionist trying to please her and she's not even in the circus don't they know balance is key to everything? Different dramas should have different bonds it's quite concerning that it's just one thing almost every time I think it speaks to a larger issue or maybe I'm overthinking it
idk what to tell you anon. It may simply be that chinese dramas are not to your taste and that's ok. I tried the occasional kdrama for years and didn't really fall in love with many... Most jdramas don't engage me. But when I tried a few cdramas it was like love at first sight. Something about the stories they want to tell, the themes they explore, and the characters they tend to portay just hooks me. And that's a very personal thing.
All I can share is that as a middle-aged corporate lesbian girlboss... a surprising amount cdramas have connected with me about how they explore a woman who is career focused & has to balance that with developing a romantic relationship and then maintaining one.
And when I'm consuming a romance storyline, what preocupies me is if I find it interesting, if the characters both feel vibrant & dynamic, if I can see how they might work together. Do their broken pieces fit? Can I see a path where eventually they can reach a point of mutual understanding, where both are fulfilled? Do I get their vibe? Do they have a unique vibe? Do I believe they like each other, as people? Or at least, do I see a clear path where they will be/have these things by the end of the story?
That's what dictates if I want to keep watching/reading a romance. Personally, I don't spend a lot of time weighing up perceived effort/favors and needing things to be perceived as "even". I would not want to date a person who thinks like that, because I find that idea stressful and off-putting! 🙈 If the people are happy, then they're happy! If neither feels abused & taken advantage of, if they're clearly content, then I don't need to calculate 'same effort' parity.
But that's just me! Everyone is different. And you don't have to overthink or justify what TV you like or don't like. Maybe cdramas aren't for you. That's all good. But please don't ask me to engage with romance this way, it kinda poisons it for me and makes things a bummer. 😔
I simply cannot say that I share your perspective. For instance, I thought Shen Li was a drama with a great otp who had priorities that did not always align but ultimately they ended up in a beautiful relationship with unconventional gender dynamics and in the finale they are clearly super happy & fulfilled together.
The Princess Royal isn't finished yet but lemme say their love in the novel is EPIC. Absolute one of the otps of all time for me. Better characters than most western historical romance novels I've read. If you look at the small stuff and try to weight who did this or that as a series of transactions, imo you are missing the beauty of how these 2 people took a lifetime of getting everything wrong before being ready for each other - but now they are ready, they are listening to each other and remembering to come back with kindness for each other and moving foward into a bond that's truly beautiful. Yeah, it takes almost the whole novel to get there. But IT DOES. No one loves Pei Wenxuan harder than Li Rong, sees the true value of Pei Wenxuan more than Li Rong, and no one will come to his ferocious rescue like Li Rong. I feel like I could cite 35 quotes to prove my point, it's that clear in the text.
a few of the modern cdrama couples who made me want to believe in love again:
Lighter & Princess - academic rivals to lovers to exes to ????, a drama that snuck up on me and slowly made me lose my mind. Best experience is to be unspoiled and thus surprised about where the story takes you. A long winding road, with some huge dips, before they reach a place where they have a beautiful hard-earned partnership. Makes me emotional just to think about them.
Hidden Love is a simple but beautifully acted tale about a sheltered & gently spoiled girl who falls in love with one of her older brother's best friends. Such a common romance plot but the execution is everything. The characters feel warm & real. FL's bittersweet young love tugs at your heart strings. I was impressed at how they crafted the platonic bond she forms with a lonely young man weighed down by financial & emotional family burdens, which later blooms into a mutual affection that enriches both their lives, and it all feels very natural. You really feel that their lives are immeasurably better by being together. Sang Zhi's protectiveness towards him is so !!!
Vid Rec: Seven by SakinaMv (who I've subscribed to for a long time)
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You Are My Glory, which has a very silly sounding concept but ended up one of my fav comfort shows. Beautiful teen girl has a crush on the local school genius and asks him out; he politely rejects her, dismissing her efforts to connect because he can't see what they would have in common. 13 years later, he's a rocket scientist and she's become one of the top idols in china. She's at the peak of her profession but having a tiny PR mishap when caught repping a video game that she actually doesn't play. He's taking a leave from work as he struggles with the economic realities of picking a job that consumes your life but pays like shit. She's looking for help to learn this damn game & cover her ass; she still has his chat ID and he's online with nothing better to do. Once they start interacting, her crush on him returns & he starts to realize that that person he had discounted may actually be that confidant who can walk beside him? My dad was poor scientist who 'wasted' his intelligence following his passion, so I found ML's turmoil especially compelling. [Note: quite a bit of video game playing in the 1st half of the drama (as this is the driver for a celebrity and an unemployed scientist to hang out), then almost none in the second half]
Vid Rec: Stargazing by dramasaffair
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Vid Rec: Flashlight by HânAlli (turn on CC)
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The Road Home, a second chance romance of 2 people who come from rough home-lifes who fell in love when young but couldn't handle a long distance relationship. Then they meet many years later and try a long distance relationship again. I love me a couple who I can believe just get each other and make each other happier when they are together.
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Meet Yourself - a slice-of-life story about a woman whose best friend dies, so she quits her job out of grief to go take the simple vacation that they would talk about doing but never got around to. And naturally she finds herself immersed in village drama and finds a soulmate (big city career woman goes to a small town and falls in love with small town boy is a HUGE american romance cliche, and one I've never enjoyed, so I was surprised at how much I liked this)
Vid Rec - MK916 can always be counted on to publish tons of quality cdrama couple vids
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genericpuff · 4 months
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Rachel did a live Q&A in the LO Discord server and gave some news about the Animated Series, it’s still happening! (Surprisingly) Any thoughts on that or things you’d like to see from it?
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Right, like every other time she's said it's "still happening" with no evidence to actually support it. That's always been the issue and still is.
Sorry, that's not me being snarky at you, I'm more so frustrated and absolutely fucking done with all the empty promises and platitudes.
Best case scenario with what was said during the Q&A was that she said "it's still happening" (worst case was that she didn't address it at all).
Like, how is this:
"I can say that… we are currently doing work on it… and it is going well.. and that it looks really cool and that I wish everyone could see what we’ve done because it looks really really really cool, and it’s happening, but that’s all I can say at this point… I can say, making tv shows takes a really long time, it takes so long" (last night's Q&A)
Any different than this:
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Any different than this:
“Um, it’s been really interesting. It’s been educational for me. So, what I—what has been done so far is beautiful. Like, if I could share it, I would. But I can’t. Because it’s very naughty.” - Girl Wonder SDCC (July 2023)
She's been saying this for the last two years since people started getting suspicious it wasn't happening in the first place, and despite all the reassurances that "it's still happening", it doesn't seem to have anything to show for itself. Cast list? Nope. Director? Nope. Writers? Nah. Just a showrunner whose bio still says "TBA" and who, despite having a whole ass 40 minute long interview with Girl Wonder, still didn't have anything to show for what's to come, just more empty promises that it's "still happening" (and a lot of banter about Stephanie's life, rather than her involvement with LO).
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In fact, most of what Stephanie talks about in the podcast concerning LO is pitching it, not developing it. And this interview happened just a few months ago. Go listen to it yourself if you don't believe me.
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So at this point, I see "it's still happening" as "don't panic" corporate speak for "we're still pitching it and trying to find a network for it so we can actually move onto development." Yes, animation takes a long time, even Hazbin Hotel took about three and a half years to finally release after Prime bought the rights to it in 2020. But LO, again, clearly hasn't even started the animation process yet. And while we're comparing it to Hazbin, note that HH actually had LOADS to show for itself along the way of being developed and did a much, MUCH better job at staying relevant and pulling in new people and hyping it up. Even people who never watched Hazbin before in its indie days on Youtube were hearing about it, it made an active effort to sell itself to new viewers and break out of its bubble on Youtube. Is LO doing that? No, not really. Most of the people who know about it are diehard fans who refuse to read anything that isn't shown directly to them on Webtoons, and diehard haters who are tired of the garbage that gets advertised on Webtoons. Ask anyone who doesn't use Webtoons, and best case, they'll know someone who reads LO, worst case, they won't even know what a webtoon is.
Shit, even the new upcoming Zelda movie has names attached to it, including Avi Arad, Wes Ball, and Derek Connolly. And my god, it's gonna SUCK DICK with that bad of a line-up (the guy who ruined the OG Spiderman trilogy and created Morbius, the guy who directed the Maze Runner films, and one of the leading storywriters behind Rise of Skywalker, fucking YIKES) but hey, at least it has more than one name attached to it.
But okay, if we're gonna play the comparison game, let's be fair and compare LO to some other works in its own lane. Let's Play announced last year that it would be getting an animated adaption, and it already has a studio backing it that is FAR more suited for it than JHC is to LO - OLM, the same studio whose animated for massive franchises like Pokemon, Yo-Kai, and Gudetama. JHC meanwhile has animated... motion capture kid shows like Word Party. Because that's the only kind of animation they actually specialize in when it comes to their in-house services. Sure, they also have Harriet the Spy, but that wasn't animated by them, that was animated by Titmouse Inc (heh sorry).
I'm the Grim Reaper recently had its own animated adaption announced, and who's in charge of it? Oh, only SAM FUCKING RAIMI-
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And look, maybe the Let's Play and I'm the Grim Reaper adaptions won't happen either. I just think it's ironic that they both have more to show for themselves in terms of credible names attached to them than what LO has managed to scrape up after five years of promising that it's "still happening" (especially when one of those series is nowhere near as big as LO and the one that WAS as big as LO walked away from Webtoons entirely). For Webtoons' own "worldwide phenomenon", they sure have given LO the shit end of the stick by pairing it with a family-with-kids-under-10 production studio that doesn't specialize in animation and a showrunner who got her start with the Cosmopolitan (weird how LO has so many plugs with Cosmo, huh? Why is JHC producing the show again?)
At the end of the day, nothing's changed. It's still just the ole' "it's still happening" record on a loop, while the comic itself falls further out of favor with people. And it's likely gonna be going behind DailyPass soon, so just think about what that's gonna do to its relevancy after it gets sent away to the equivalent of the Webtoons graveyard.
As I've said countless times before every time this topic comes up, at best, if it is still happening, and I'm wrong about all of this, they are doing the worst job I've ever seen at hyping people up and keeping them informed. It is NOT a good thing that people have to keep asking Rachel if it's still happening.
As for worst case... you wanna know what other projects come to my mind that have fallen into the same state of development hell and decay as LO's TV show? YandereSim and Cryamore. What do you think the popular opinion is about those works and their creators now? Because if you don't know either of those names and are about to google them, let me give you a heads up warning - it's not positive.
If it happens, it happens. It will hopefully be before I get all the therapy I need to undo what LO has done to my brain so that I don't have to make repeat visits LOL But if it's after, hey, maybe the show will be good! Assuming Rachel doesn't, y'know, E.L. James the whole thing. Because frankly, the show will need to cut and rework a LOT of stuff to be any good IMO and I don't think that will be possible if Rachel gets directly involved. But I'm not even hoping for that scenario because there's literally NOTHING to give me that hope, "it's still happening" is nothing more than "don't panic" corporate speak to me at this point. It's cynical, but I just can't waste my energy caring about it anymore.
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anxious-witch · 3 months
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Part two of this analysis aka Edwin, Charles and asexuality and why I personally like hcing Charles under the ace umbrella rather than Edwin.
Previous part was about why I don't see Edwin as ace and this one is about why I can see Charles as being on ace/ace spectrum.
So, you might be thinking, what the hell is he talking about? Charles clearly flirts with Crystal from the start and is attracted to her!
And to that, I say, yes....and no. He flirts with her from the start, absolutely! I'd even say he likes her immediately and think she is pretty. But given we aren't in his head, we can't really know exactly what he thinks. His reaction certainly isn't as extreme as the one Edwin has to the Cat King, which clearly showed instant sexual attraction.
So, the way I see it, I think he likes Crystal and very quickly develops a crush on her. But those are romantic feelings, not sexual ones. And we all know how intense Charles' feelings are, especially when it comes to devoting himself to someone.
"He literally agrees about being a nice addition to her body count! And he seems to know ghosts and human can have sex!" Yeah. Which is why A) I hc him as demisexual aka only feeling sexual attraction when he already has feelings for someone and B) as an ace person myself, believe me when I say that researching sex as a concept by an ace person is not uncommon. It's interesting part of human experience, whenever you wish that for yourself or not.
But I digress. Back to my point and that is, when does Charles seem to kiss (and if you believe they slept together after that one scene)? When one or both of them are in need of comfort.
We know Charles is physically affectionate person in general, so while I understand the whole thing was muddled with him and Crystal, I do find it odd he never kissed her due to being excited, or relieved. It would be so very in character for him and yet??? We see them kiss, if I remember correctly, after Charles has his breakdown over not being able to stop anything or after the Devlin's house? I mixed up those two in my head but regardless-it's a form of comfort. You know how a lot of ace people who like sex describe why they like it? Because it makes them feel closer to their partner, because yes, the sex itself is enjoyable, but there is no need for it, no attraction to spur it on. But when you care about the person, you want to make them feel good and you want to feel closer to them.
So for Charles, who constantly craves positive validation, especially through touch? I feel like he'd be either sex positive ace or as I mentioned earlier, demisexual. He doesn't seem spurred by it by attraction.
Hell, after Crystal has a nightmare, what is his first instinct? To kiss her. Because he feels helpless with how to help her other than get her closer to him! But , no offense to Crystal, I find it a bit difficult to believe Charles looked at her in that moment, traumatized by the nightmare and thought "god you look so hot right now I have to kiss you".
And again, we see this repeated when Crystal is about to leave for London and she kisses him goodbye. They never kiss as a consequence of something happy. Which yes, can definitely be contributed to the general narrative of that relationship likely being there as more of a comfort but still.
When we talk about headcanon sphere, because I don't pretend like the writers planned on making Charles ace coded, I think it would make sense.
Also why he doesn't clock Edwin's meeting with the Cat King for what they are! He is suspicious, we could even say he is jealous, but up until Edwin doesn't bring up his feelings for Monty, Charles doesn't connect the two. Which I find odd. Charles doesn't seem surprised that Edwin is gay, so how did he not make a connection about the Cat King until that moment?
Unless he usually connects sex with romantic feelings! Of course, he knows other people sometimes don't but surely not Edwin? Surely Edwin would think like Charles and want to love someone before feeling any sort of attraction? Right? Right??
Wrong. You sir, give strong demi vibes.
No but in all seriousness, I feel like Charles being demi/ace doesn't have a lot of uncomfortable implications that Edwin does? And it doesn't play into the stereotypes either. Why not hc someone flirty and easygoing as ace for a change?
Not to mention that he can be flippant around sex because that's what's expected. We know Charles is not above putting up a front if it makes it easier for everyone around him. To feel accepted.
So he likes a girl. She is pretty and powerful and she alive. Of course he is attracted to her. It's natural. That's how attraction is meant to feel like. Right?
And especially with demi hc, I feel like that fits very well bc he is used to having to "convince" himself before he feels the attraction.
Another cool point I could see being raised is how, he thinks Edwin isn't interested in anyone for the longest time, so Charles in turn, fully turns out any possible romantic feelings for him. And in turn then, he never think he can be attracted to Edwin because he could be like oh! No romantic feelings? No attraction either. Cool!
But yeah. Again, just hcs in general, but if we are talking about making someone ace, I feel like Charles is a more logical than Edwin, personally
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kookidough · 5 months
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sierra is sooooo complicated to me like. i could go on about her for so long & also i wish the writers did certain things with her character (which i will get into later in this rant) so ya here we go
firstly her childhood is . very clearly messed up?? it’s established that her mother is Ultra Obsessed with chris and i think sierra mentions being a 3rd generation chris mclean scholar at one point which implies that obsession just runs in the family atp😭 before even going on the show she’s grown up in an environment where this level of obsession is Normal so she doesn’t see anything wrong with turning out the same way
since her mother is like . obsessed with chris & stuff that’s probably what would bring sierra to watching total drama in the first place and i personally feel like she’d fixate on it because it was a group of teenagers her age, people she would like to be friends with if that makes sense? i can imagine she’d be a pretty odd child without many friends so that’d maybe be a reason for her to latch onto total drama, maybe why she latched onto cody too because like. she thinks he’s cute and they have things in common (like theyre both pretty geeky) so she gets pretty parasocial about it because, as mentioned before, her mum being obsessed with chris is just Normal to sierra so she thinks it’s normal for her to be obsessed with cody (spoiler alert girl: it’s really not)
while she’s on the show i feel like she doesn’t change / gets worse because chris sees her exhibiting Mental Illness and just… actively encourages her behaviour? and the other contestants do nothing to stop it, like how most of the time (e.g. paris) team amazon get mad at cody for sierra’s behaviour instead of helping him out for some reason??? no one tells sierra her behaviour is wrong so she just. Continues to get worse until shes out of the competition😭
this is where im gna interrupt with a canon divergence because like . personally i think in the episode where votes were revealed and cody was revealed to have voted sierra Every Single Time, sierra shouldve gotten over him!!!! it was the harsh truth she needed to hear, the dose of reality that cody is NOT interested in her and she needs to move on. she couldve had good character development, building her relationships with other characters and showing off her skills. maybe she’d still be eliminated in drumheller because she made cody that birthday cake as an apology and then kaboom or whatever idk just some way to keep her elimination the same
going down this train could’ve made her character in all stars Actually Interesting ! we couldve seen a side of sierra that kept some of her old eccentric vibes but had her head in the game this time instead of being focused on a boy, especially since cody isnt even in that season
and of course lastly i just wanna say i’m not excusing her weird actions or her creepiness at all, she has some Extreme Flaws and all the stuff she did was absolutely not okay, i just like rotting and seeing maybe why she acted the way she did and i wanted to drop my own two cents on interesting avenues her character couldve went down :3 i know everyone in td is some form of stereotype and sierra was an obsessive uberfan but she couldve still been that after getting over cody, in fact im disappointed that she knew SO much about the cast yet didnt use any of their weaknesses to her own advantage, she couldve dominated the competition😭
so uhhh yeah thats my thoughts on sierra, i probably over-read her to filth but shes very complex to me and i wish certain aspects of her character were done differently, she had a lot of potential especially in all stars but um Everyone had their potential destroyed in all stars so i’ll overlook that
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the-modern-typewriter · 5 months
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helloo just wanted to know your thoughts on the recent tik tok commentary on “booktok” about how literature is being “ruined because of spicy books” and authors who cater to tropes I definitely see both sides!
Caveat: I don't have tiktok. I don't spend a lot of time on bookstagram either. So while I'm vaguely aware of the discourse, assume I spend most of my time blissfully unaware of everything, under my rock, writing my own little things.
Spicy books:
As with everything, there is nuance to be had. I don't think there is anything wrong with spicy books. There is clearly an audience for them and it's great to have books that recognise this desire! Western society can be weirdly puritan about sex and anything that challenges that get points from me. I've enjoyed the spicy scenes myself when they happen to miraculously meet the very specific vibes I personally like.
However, I also don't think every book needs to or should be pressured to be spicy and I personally get annoyed when I feel like spice replaces adequate plot or character development (which is something I've come across a few times in the last few years). I don't say this in a 'every sex scene must only be there to develop plot/character' way! I say this in a, oh my god, why has the plot stopped for sex in every chapter instead way. In a 'you guys used to have interesting conversations! why are you doing this to me!?' way.
But, you know. I'm not typically the target audience for sex scenes. So I'd just not read another book by an author who did that and let other people enjoy it, if that's what they're looking for. I still feel that there are still plenty of other books in the world I can read.
Tropes:
Tropes have and always will be a tool in writing. It's not new that writers are using them, but I think it's just a trend at the moment to be particularly upfront about them (especially in the romance genre tbh). Specifically, I think this is a marketing trend not a writing trend.
(Does trad publishing like books that are easy to market? Obviously. It's a business.)
I don't inherently mind this, because book marketing is really hard and realistically a lot of people don't stop to engage with original content or long descriptions about original content. Especially not on social media. Tropes are an excellent shorthand for conveying information/vibes, and then people can get more information and decide for themselves if they want to engage with the story.
(In a way, to me this is like when people add 'it's queer!' when they make me a recommendation. Does it make me more likely to go and look at the thing? Yes. Is it the deciding factor on if I actually read/watch/like it. Nope. It's just a quick flag for me to consider it and make my own decision.)
Maybe there are people who are specifically just writing tropes without much more to it...but I haven't really seen it in the books I personally read. At least not any more than the usual.
Some great books I've read this year so far:
The Luminous Dead By Caitlin Starling
Our Wives Under the Sea by Julia Armfield
Rolling in the Deep by Mira Grant
(They are all horror to some degree...I've been on a kick.)
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yourhighness6 · 7 months
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NATLA Episode 2 Debrief (by yours truly)
Hi again! Here's episode 1 if anyone is interested. This is going to be another outrageously long post, just a tw
I absolutely loved the ominous start and then it's just:
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They really captured the Zuko/Iroh dynamic the cartoon had in this scene. I hope they keep this sort of thing throughout the show. Also, side note, but for whatever reason Zuko seems a LOT more violent in this version. This child needs some serious therapy.
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I guess this is their version of the map joke, huh? Low-key disappointed but not as mad as I thought I would be.
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I'm not sure how I feel about the writers prolonging some of the conflicts that were resolved back in the SWT into this episode. I guess it makes sense that they would have to extend the drama, but I'm a little disappointed these thoughts didn't make it into the first episode. I'm glad they're included, but I think at this point team avatar had started to feel like family already in the cartoon, so it's kind of annoying and misses the mark a bit.
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Yes I'm so glad they put GranGran's blessing back in! I was really mad when they took it out, but this honestly feels more meaningful than it did in the cartoon. It's a precious cultural artifact rather than just a couple of blankets. This is similar to what I was mad about with extending SWT conflicts, but I don't have nearly as much of a problem with it, as it seems like they're carrying a little piece of home with them rather than just extra drama.
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The burial scene was very sweet and sad. It gave us a bit more insight into Air Nomad culture, and a sense of closure the cartoon didn't really give us. A+ for Gordon's acting as well (he is perfect for this part, even if he does still need some more acting experience)
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Zuko has officially mastered the "my uncle dragged me here and I'm an agnsty teenager" face. A+ to Dallas for this entire scene. I am absolutely LOVING the Iroh and Zuko dynamic. Never change (jk I wish you a wonderful redemption arc)
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Suki looks just as beautiful as she did in the trailer. Unfortunately can't say the same for the Kyoshi statue (I wish it had been made out of wood), but there is something to be said for the little shrines to the avatars instead of a few big ones. I actually kind of like that they changed that element, and I hope they explore it more in future episodes, because I assume some of the spiritualism surrounding them would have to be changed. Side note: but I've seen nothing of the spirit world so far and I'm getting a little nervous. I guess I wouldn't mind if they decided it was some long-lost avatar trick or is introduced in the NWT, but if they get rid of it altogether I'm gonna be pissed.
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I'm glad they decided to make Kyoshi Island a matriarchal society instead of having a male leader. It just makes sense based on the lore and I like to see more strong adult women than in the cartoon. Also Suki got a mom! Maybe she'll get some development too!
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This Aang speech was very in-your-face storytelling, but I feel like the whole show is gonna be like that so I'm just accepting it at this point. I think it stayed true to his character while getting the point across, and it also kind of helped his character compared to the cartoon. He's very emotionally open and has a charming nativity about him, but he's clearly trying to help. Loved it.
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He's so awkward I love it. This whole interaction was really cool, because it expanded on their relationship in a cool way. They're both struggling between doing what their parents expect of them to help their respective villages, but are being faced with a pull to the outside world, Suki with her "big heart" and Sokka with his need to protect Katara. Thishonestly gives more depth to their relationship and I don't mind the writers dragging out first episode conflicts if this is how they're choosing to explore them.
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Aww look at these cute little siblings. I like that the writers are giving them more time to progress from strangers to besties. Their interactions seem more natural, and Aang's grief more realistic. It's also great to once again see Katara growing more confident and powerful in her abilities. I love the smell of some good character development in the making.
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Look at her face! She's like,"I'm so good at flirting. Mother would be proud." Meanwhile Sokka's scared of her. Anyway I'm living for their scenes and they're making me giggle. (Despite Sokka's sexism being toned down it still exists to a lesser level and I love to see her beating his ass while he tries to flex)
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I love the new subplot! I love that flashback! I love this conflict! It gives more credence to his fears as a prodigy. Whatever writer came up with this deserves a hug.
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AHH the ship is sailing! I love Sokka learning to be more open minded! I love Suki learning to be more open-hearted! I love when characters in romantic relationships learn from each other! This is giving Suki and Sokka development in ways the cartoon did not without trying to play Sokka's sexism off as a joke and also giving us more screentime and when I say I love it I mean I am doing a happy dance right now!
Okay, so just a quick word on shipping besides Sukka because as Zutara trash I am legally required to do this:
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It seems like they are keeping the zutara hope parallel intact, with Katara and Zuko both finding hope in the avatar but in different ways. However, I don't think this really changes anything. So far, there's beven nothing to suggest they're going with ZK instead of KA, and I'm a little worried that they're trying to parallel Sukka and KA wwith the way they're setting up both girls as kind of a "teacher" to the boys in a way and giving both ships a huge amount of screentime in the same episode. Also, and I hate to say this, they might be attempting to fix KA by toning down Katara's anger and her "dark side". She didn't get angry to break the iceberg and they're eliminating her entire waterbending scroll plotline. They're trying to make them a better match for each other by watering her down and therefore increasing her connection with Aang and decreasing the chance of a future connection with Zuko over their anger and shared trauma. It's sad news that I didn't want to deliver, and I've seen spoilers that there is another ZK moment later down the line, but at this point, I think KA is a lot more plausible than ZK. *cries*
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In slightly less depressing news, they're inserting the avatar state plotline a lot earlier. This makes sense with the condensed timeline, and I think I like the way they're going with it so far. I hope they keep the concept of avatar guide intact, though, and I'm worried that they're going to play into more of a connection to all of his past lives instead of just Roku. I kind of hate Roku but I do think that's a major concept I don't want them to get rid of, and his inaction during a time of adversity mirror's Aang's own challenges with confrontation. Their dynamic is a good one, and I wouldn't be opposed to changed but I really hope they don't entirely throw it out.
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Scratch whatever the fuck I said before. I'm back on my shipping bullshit I can't believe we got a BONUS FIGHT! Also kudos to whoever decided Zhao should burn the village instead of Zuko. I was always so pissed at him whenever I rewatched this episode and now I can sleep easy knowing it was that military dipshit instead of him
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I love Kyoshi to an unhealthy extent but I kind of wish Katara had been the one to go off on him. It would have seriously fixed things.
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COUPLES THAT FIGHT TOGETHER ARE THE BEST COUPLES CHANGE MY MIND
Also, side note, but I love the hair these in fight scenes:
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Most action movies hairspray the shit out of them but these actors are allowed to look a little disheveled while they kick ass. Huge thank you to whoever decided that more natural hair is superior cuz they are 100% correct
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THE BONUS FIGHT SCENE IS NO LONGER COOL I REPEAT THE BONUS FIGHT SCENE IS NO LONGER COOL
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I think this was the perfect conclusion to Sukka (for now)! Sokka learned something so much more valuable and impactful than in the cartoon, in my opinion. His masculinity is handled very well in my opinion, and even if I would have liked to see him wear the warrior outfit, there's something really great about the way he continues to embrace protectiveness, a masculine trait, while having rid himself of toxic masculinity, such as not being able to learn from others. He's leaving a more open minded and humble person and I love the way they portrayed it.
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Okay the speech was a little on the nose but I liked it. One of the best things about ATLA was the way they executed Aang's childishness ending up beneficial for the world. I think the new conflict is expanding on that nicely while staying true to its roots. *pats writers on the head*
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IS THIS REAL I LOVE IT SO MUCH AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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IM TRYING SO HARD NOT TO THINK ABOUT THIS LINE AND HOW IT COULD BE ANOTHER PARALLEL TO K/A I HATE IT BUT I LOVE IT AT THE SAME TIME LETS JUST FOCUS ON SUKI SAYING SOKKA HELPED HER AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Also the fan was so cute. That last scene on Appa really wrapped everything up nicely. I like the way they tied in the conflicts between the siblings while engineering growth for Sokka.
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Daniel Kim delivered in his two seconds of screentime. Zhao was such a bitch but idk what else I expected. Can't wait to see more of these two bastards in future!
Anyway, to recap:, things I did like:
Aang's new conflicts
Sokka's mini arc
SUKKA
Expanding on Katara's PTSD
Zhao burning the town instead of Zuko
Zuko and Iroh's dynamic
Things I didn't like:
Katara's characterization
Lack of Aang's actual avatar guide
K/A hints and lack of zutara implications
Postponing the Zhao and Zuko agni Kai
Overall, I have to say I think that they're playing into the core themes very well while expanding on the characters. If it weren't for the whole Katara debacle this would be a 9/10 episode, but with the Katara debacle imma give it a 7/10. Still, I can at least understand why the writers made their crappy decisions, even if I don't agree with them. Hopefully certain things are fixed in future episodes, but as it stands I think I'll live (barely)
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chirpsythismorning · 1 year
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There isn't much discourse about how Mike went from saying that El was a weapon in s1, even encouraging the others to use El's powers when she was still recuperating after finding Will in the void, to then in s3 accusing the others of being reckless with her powers, saying she's risking her life for no reason.
Now, I want to make clear that I'm not bashing Mike here, this has less to do with what he's doing being right or wrong. What this is about is how Mike went from doing something himself, to calling out other people for doing it, without acknowledging that fact and why the writers chose to frame it all this way.
You might think it's insignificant, but these two following scenes are clearly being paralleled to each other. And so the fact that Mike himself is acknowledging this as something to be critical of, makes me wonder what exactly is going on in his mind...
I want to preface this scene from s1 by saying that Mike is giving very off vibes here. I know that I certainly viewed this scene as romantic the first time I saw it, but since rewatching it recently, I was getting completely different vibes.
They literally make a point to focus on Mike being distracted, on the verge of impatience. Then, the way El reacts upon Mike getting up abruptly, gives this feeling of uncertainty about Mike's consideration for her in this moment, as she's clearly not what's on the top of his mind right now. And it just makes you wonder, are we truly supposed to be feeling peak romance rn?
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I never realized how out of place this scene was until now (or is it...). It's just such an odd choice to have El resting her head on Mike's shoulder for comfort, only for Mike to cut it short with him being distracted, and with Dustin and El looking awkwardly at Mike like "Okay?...", then followed by a scene where he's trying to convince the others to use El's powers to help.
Here we have s1 Mike displaying behavior that s3 Mike was calling out the others for displaying:
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Here we have Lucas, who was very, very critical of El being dangerous ALL of s1, and yet now in complete contrast to that, he is showing more consideration and common sense for El's well being than Mike, the supposed love (at first sight) interest ...
'That's the most important thing, remember?'
A question, followed by Mike just standing there in silence, like he's only just now really thinking about El being safe as their main priority... This is something that combined with everything else unfolding over the course of this season and the seasons after, that makes Mike's behavior a whole lot easier to understand.
I'll have to make several other posts about this, because there are a lot of aspects to it, but for now I'm just going to focus on these two parallels.
Here we have what happens in s3, with Mike being critical of the others doing something he himself literally did in s1:
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In fact, how careless all of you are.
THIS. When Mike makes it a big deal to call out everyone for doing something he himself has already done, he's outright admitting that it's something that he believes is wrong, and by not even slightly acknowledging his role in doing something similar in the past, it's very likely that he feels guilty about it.
This was probably his way of trying to make it right, by standing up for El in a way that he didn't before because he was treating her like some superhero and not a real person back then.
It's just that the word love slipped out, in the heat of the moment. And El, upon overhearing this, is seeing this development of Mike herself, with s1 Mike going from, yes being more kind and considerate than the other 2 boys in the beginning, but still sort of expecting stuff from her without her being able to verbally agree to it, to now having developed and changed to saying that one of his big priorities is her safety.
El is taking this as being evidence he went from not loving her, to loving her. Another reason why it's pretty obvious El didn't believe Mike's monologue, bc she herself witnessed Mike develop his apparent romantic feelings for her over time, and so him saying it was love at first sight, was probably the catalyst that made it abundantly clear to her that he wasn't being truthful, bc she knows it's not the truth. She's not stupid.
Again this isn't about Mike doing this back then or even the others doing it now as being bad vs. good, this is about the writers going about it this way, sending a message that Mike feels guilt, enough to try to make things right, but is apparently not ready to unpack the actual guilt that is beneath the surface which lead him to this point.
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And then there's this scene, which... it's actually terrifying how obvious it is they instructed Sadie and Caleb to lean out of that shot with Will and Mike reacting to El entering the room... Like... It's SOO obvious when you watch it now what they're trying to hint at without saying it.
Not only are they hinting at Will's feelings, because that is part of it, they're also hinting at Mike's internal struggle. Will is always on the back of his mind whether he's willing to address it or not. And all while that is happening, he is feeling unaddressed guilt about how he treated El when they first met and spent that one week together helping her run away from the bad guys while also looking for Will, something Mike viewed as being worthy of El using her powers...
I'll have to make the other posts regarding this soon, because it all starts to click what's going on with Mike when you look at all of these things together.
While Mike is just a kid like pretty much everyone else in this story, and while he didn't mean any harm by asking El to help them find Will (none of them did), I think that's kind of the whole point?
I think that he got lucky superman landed on his doorstep, who just so happened to be in danger herself, giving him his own purpose to help her too, with her needing him as well, and so it became a situation where they both needed each other.
But because El could literally not speak, it's not like she could really voice her feelings about things they were doing, beyond yes and no. She had Lucas sort of being critical of her, with Mike encouraging El to do things that would make the others see her as being worthy of sticking around so they can find Will. It goes without saying she felt obligated to do these things, even if they didn't outright tell her she had to or else. We literally see almost all of these scenes with her doing stuff for the others being instantly juxtaposed with scenes of Brenner doing the same. It's not the same scale of severity, but it is an acknowledgment that although she is outside of the lab, she still feels like her powers are what define her and it's all people want from her.
I think what it comes down to, is that in that moment when she is sacrificing herself to the demogorgan at the end of s1, we are seeing in real time Mike realizing what he and the other's have been asking of her this whole time, without outright asking her.
And you can literally see the retaliation and devastation hit him all at once. The instant regret, where he's backtracking and El stops him from even trying.
'Goodbye Mike' singles him out, because while he was the one out of the three that showed her the most kindness from the start, he was also the one who at the end of it all, was still expecting her to risk her life for them...
And that just makes it hit so much harder when you think about how that made Mike feel in that moment.
And then in s2 how that impacts Mike and his journey going forward.
His breakdown at the end of s2 upon her return.
His behavior in s3-4, in relation to him juggling his relationship with Will and El, now that they are both in his life at the same time.
It all starts to make sense.
I won't go too much into it because those other posts are bound to be long with a bunch of pictures too!
But on that note, there's at least one thing Mike isn't acknowledging, and it's literally what led up to the unintentional love confession that then led us to 10 more episodes of miscommunication because of it...
It's going to be important for him to address this guilt for him to fulfill his arc and to also close off his expectations that he has to have a romantic relationship with El in order to keep her in his life at all.
The audience themselves seeing this and being forced to face it is also going to make it a lot easier for them understand why Mike did what he did, not only because he's a queer kid in the 80's who has every reason to doubt and repress, but also because he understandably feels sort of indebted to El after everything.
It's more complex than him just falling out of love with her and falling in love with Will because of XYZ.
I think there is a lot of guilt and shame and trauma connected to their meeting and the events that followed. And addressing that is going to give a lot of closure to the ending of the story and also the beginning.
#byler#stranger things#mike wheeler#i feel like mikes arc always comes off as convoluted to most viewers bc they’re missing the whole picture#like this is literally canon#Mike went from doing something to saying other people doing it was wrong without acknowledging his role in that from the beginning#and so ppl using that development as aww he loves her now…#doesn’t even work when apparently he loved her since the moment he saw her…#not being willing to pay attention to how they are building up mikes arc#dancing around all of his actions with#everyone makes mistakes bc they’re children and that’s okay#and just leave it at that…#bc yes obviously all of the characters should be able to make mistakes and be forgiven#but were ignoring the elephant in the room here#it’s canon Mike feels guilt for how he treated el in s1 yet he hasn’t acknowledged it…#instead of acknowledging his history of doing something similar#he’s pointed out everyone else doing it as if they’re doing something wrong he himself would never do…#as if he doesn’t have first hand experience#they could have actually made this moment romantic and genuine IF they wanted to#they could have had mike open up about how he used to do that#but after getting to know el and realize she is her own person#it made him think differently and he wants to do better by her#then maybe when she confronted him in front of everyone he could have said it again or asked to be alone to say it to her directly#and to apologize for how he acted in the past by expecting stuff of her#and THATS why he is extra cautious now#and then got her reaction#instead they give fans the impression Mike is the ideal male love interest#who is perfect for el#with this moment being one of their top reasons#and it’s a scene where he avoids confronting series long built up guilt…
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