#j2 prequel drama

[eisforeidolon]

I’m of the apparently controversial opinion that j2 are indeed “as close as ever” but they simply no longer live in a just them bubble where they constantly work and see each other . It’s how adult friendships are it just happens that for j2, they didn’t navigate that before the show ended

I'm not sure if that's a controversial opinion so much as the people who really want them to hate each other now or still be literally attached at the hip 24/7 are louder about it than everyone else.

Granted we only see a small slice of their lives, but in terms of opinions, I'm with you - I don't see any particular change in how they interact with each other or talk about each other. They just aren't together all the time anymore, which yes, is true of most adult friendships.

[strawlessandbraless]

Convincing myself Misha and Jensen are waiting for an episode where they can dedicate more time to Cas and Dean dealing with their unresolved issues and to talk about that goodbye a bit

[alwaysmybrother]

Looking to follow some SPN blogs? I'm not sure where to start with making friends lol. Mainly into:

Sam and Dean

SamJess is my ride or die (PLEASE send fic recs) <3

J2, I like some of the other cast too

Kripke era > everything. The show lost its luster after he left imo. 🤷‍♀️

Please interact if you post about any of these!

[lol-jackles]

First off, big fan of your blog! I read it like a newspaper every day.

What I wanna know is, if the SPN revival ends up happening, what route do you see them taking where they don’t mess with the canon? I think it would’ve worked out fine had Jensen not ret-conned quite a bit with the prequel. Now what? Will TW be considered canon? Is it better to let Sam and Dean rest and just base the revival between 15x19 and 15x20 so the endgame is not impacted? Wanna hear your thoughts specifically.

Also, a lot has happened between SPN’s end and now, and a lot more will happen still before the revival takes place. Speaking in terms of J2 and their friendship and their dynamic, particularly post prequel gate, should we expect to see slight changes in the SamDean dynamic come the revival as well? It can’t possibly be the exact same as how we got used to seeing it s11-s15 with this domestic bliss, we-are-eachother’s-endgame bliss.

Thank you friend.

The Winchesters was retconned to take place in an AU, so it is irrelevant to the main SPN-verse. Think how the Apocalypse World where Sam and Dean were never born has very little impact on the main SPN-verse. There is a pair of AU Sam and Dean running around in Brazil but again, no impact in the main SPN-verse.  So while TW is canon, it is entirely separate from our SPN.

Jared seem to like the idea that 5 years passed between 15x19 and 15x20 so I think there is a fair chance the revival could take place during those 5 years, Since Jared actually looks younger now than he did in season 15, then it can work.  (Sidenote: Jared started out looking normal in season 15 but midway through he trained for the marathon and gave himself the gaunt "runner face" that significantly aged him in appearance.)

 With Jack remaking heaven and keeping the angels away from earth and Rowena keeping demons away from the Winchesters, the brothers’ hunts return to the simpler days of monster hunting and explore new urban myths.

During these so-called simple monster hunts, Sam and Dean could go deeper into dealing their personal issues, which will draw them even closer leading up to the fateful Barn Scene day. Among the drama I would like to see closure to unresolved arcs, like what happened to Sam power?   Where are all the demons that Dean made during his apprenticeship as hell’s torturer?   Belphagore opened up that opportunity in season 15, which we also saw clues that not all demons are going to follow Rowena. Then we can have queen Rowena seeking help from the Winchesters to wrangle wayward demons either back into hell or into the Empty.

I expect we will still see the same Sam and Dean dynamic. First, based on the first and second convention after the prequel mess, the J2 magic was still there. Think of the times you haven't seen friends or family members for years and as soon as you re-connect, you immediately fell back into the old dynamics out of habit. Second, Hollywood is like an endless high school.  You may not have liked your high school but you find yourself going to every reunion because nobody else in the world know what you’ve experienced other than your classmates even if you hated them back in the day.  Many deep and casual relationships are based on shared experiences rather than actual compatibility. 

[not-a-perfect-metaphor]

Hi! How are you doing? I wanted to get your opinion on another drama in the fandom after The Winchesters finale. All I get from it is facepalm. I don't remember reading it here or elsewhere, but it was saying that after the spn finale, we're in for a deliberate campaign to break the bond between J2 in the public eye. And they clearly succeeded. It's like many fans have gone crazy and can't stop saying for years that J2 were never friends or about friendship breakdown and betrayal. And this is despite the fact that J2 are still close and dear to each other. They still want to work together and will definitely restart spn one day. Not to mention them as a strong couple who have been through a lot. And I think this kind of drama is even good for them. J2 tinhat not much left and not as much attention and emphasis on them anymore. Even just j2 fans are hard to find. There are only individual aggressive fans of each of the J2 and crazy Hellers. At times I think it's even better that way. They can be together without worrying so much about damage control.

I’ve started and restarted this answer so many times, because I feel like it’s such a delicate topic but also something that definitely does need to be addressed.

And I thank you for taking the time to write it out so eloquently!

I guess I’ll start by saying that I absolutely have noticed the number of people jumping onto the anti-‘J2-togetherness’ train, to the point where I’ve been trying to figure out for a while now what factors could be contributing to it.

Mainly because the actual reality of the Js on a day-to-day basis does not match up with what’s been said (with what’s being said), and yes, there definitely have always been those who have projected their own discomforts/disappointments/opposing views etc. onto the Js. Of course we all know that, but you’re certainly right about the fact that it’s become much more prevalent in recent months (I kind of feel like it’s been happening ever since the sequel debacle, really).

And on that note, I do think the issues surrounding the sequel undeniably planted seeds of resentment/negative feelings in probably a pretty big percentage of at least the individuals who were once pro-J2 and who are now anti-J2, and I’m not about to pass judgment on anyone or try to claim that anyone’s feelings/opinions are wrong or bad, because that’s never been what I’m about here.

What I have always said about the prequel drama is essentially this-

The strength of the 15+ year relationship between Jared and Jensen allowed them to heal from all of that, and even in the midst of it, I never doubted they would…and they absolutely, 100% have.

That’s honestly what genuinely matters, at least as it pertains to our discussion about the closeness/trust/love between the two of them, and I guess I would just say…or I would hope…that anyone holding onto their own disappointments might at least be able to distinguish between their own feelings and how the Js have stated and shown they feel.

But again, to each their own.

The other element to mention, I think, is the glaringly obvious one, and something I’ve touched on a few times since the wrapping up of SPN.

It was always going to be really difficult for us, on the outside looking in, to no longer (for now, anyway) get to experience that amazingly personal and constant view of Jared and Jensen’s relationship to the degree we’d all become so accustomed to throughout the decade and a half of SPN, and I think some people lost sight of the fact that just because we’re not able to witness as much of their time together/hear about as much of their relationship/etc. doesn’t mean it isn’t still happening.

And yes, it’s common sense. But I think for some, probably those who weren’t as heavily invested in the first place (although that’s just speculation), the shift was misinterpreted as being linked to a decline in the Js intimacy instead of simply a decline in the amount of that intimacy we get to see.

As for a more formal ‘set-up’ of these rumors and speculations, that’s not something I’ve been privy to or heard anything about, although I’ll absolutely agree with you on the fact that whether there was any staging or simply just the natural progressions one would expect, the dimmed spotlight on the nature of Jared and Jensen’s relationship has certainly allowed them some more freedom and peace, which of course is a good thing.

And it’s not anything we didn’t all realize would happen, those of us who’ve been around for this for as long as we have been. We’ve been talking it over since the start of SPN’s final season.

Digging into these anti-J2 posts, I can tell you that what I personally found is that the vast majority of them, as has always been the case, are originating from hellers, with a small (although, yes, increased) percentage of them seemingly coming from previously pro-J2 folks.

In the end, I guess I’d really love to hear from others and get any additional opinions on this, so please, if you have something to add, let me know!

Edit: as far as J2 tinhats disappearing, I don’t think that’s actually necessarily the case. I know that I tend to vanish for sometimes quite long periods of time, but that’s always been the case, and I see the same group of us (not entirely, but the bulk of us) still wearing our hats and enjoying the Js here on Tumblr. 😊 So definitely hang in there, my friend!

[jarpadswalker]

I have a bunch of questions. You can ignore them or entertain them.

1. How has your view of Jensen changed after the prequel gate or do you think he was always like that and we failed to notice it?

2. Do you think a spn reboot will happen? Do you want it to happen?

3. Do you think Jared wants a spn reboot or he just simply entertains the idea at cons?

4. Do you want that rumoured Nova project to be true? I want it if Jared wants it😁

5. Was excluding Jared from the prequel deliberate or a miscalculation on jensen's part?

Hey Anon,

Sorry I couldn't answer the ask earlier. It is a festive week for us, so it's quite busy. Got a downtime now, so I thought of catching up on tumblr action. I'm glad I did because these are quite interesting questions.

Since these are different questions, I am dividing it into two post otherwise it will be a long post. I will answer reboot question in this post, and in the next post, I will talk about J2 prequelgate and Nova.

DO YOU THINK SPN REBOOT WILL HAPPEN? DO YOU WANT IT TO HAPPEN? DO YOU THINK JARED WANTS SPN REBOOT....

Well, Anon ... SPN is an IP (intellectual property) of WB, and in today's market, owning an IP is like owning gold. Just the way you can repurporse gold in various shapes and form, Studios can repurpose IPs. The moment studio feels that they have managed to build enough nostalgic sentiments around SPN , and if they feel their is a need for supernatural drama that can instantly attract the audience on their network. They will experiment with reboot.

Also, this is my personal opinion, if we look at the shows that were produced a decade and compare it to today, I feel there is a fatigue setting in. The constant race of churning shows on an almost daily basis on different platforms is hampering creativity, making it monotonous and formulaic. If something works with the audience, everyone is running to create similar stuff. And I feel for networks breaking the mold equals rehashing their old classics. So sooner or later, SPN REBOOT will happen.

Does Jared want to do Reboot, or is he appeasing fans? Frankly, I don't know what Jared wants, so I can only speculate. I feel SPN is his show, so he would like to be part of it in some form or another and that too on his term. When he started SPN, he was an upcoming actor, so he had to accept whatever was offered, but now he has experience and in a position where he can negotiate his own contract and put forth his own terms.

Also, SPN reboot is a set income for at least a year. Denying/rejecting it would not be a wise decision for any actor (when offered), and for someone at Jared position, it would also mean residuals. Remember Jared sacrificed two of his holidays and adjusted two days of his SPN shoot just so he can feature in the reboot of Gilmore Girls. Not just income, but reboot is also about a prestige and nostalgia for an actor.

Will it happen right now. I don't think so. For now, Jared is keeping the show alive within the audience as it got other businesses, namely merchandise and cons associated with it. Also, him outright saying no will kill the buzz around the show, and the toxic part of the fandom will immediately blame him. In the end, it is all about marketing and maintaining an image/ brand.

Lastly, Do I want it to happen?

Immediately, No. I think SPN as a series has run it course. Now, it's time for it to marinate in its success. It is like cooking meat. Meat without marination isn't as juicy as it is when it's marinated for hours. So I think SPN needs to just rest without anyone disturbing its legacy anymore.

And when it is ready for reboot, I want it to be done by someone who has seen the entire seasons and understands the core of the series. I don't want someone who wants a piece of social media traction or appease to a certain section of social media just to get the clout. A good reboot can only be made if the creator stays true the story and character without having any agenda.

I am ending the post here as it is getting long...will answer the rest in the second post

[laf-outloud]

I definitely had a knee-jerk reaction of "this is BS" when you didn’t post the first ask by the Jared is pulling away from cons with Jensen anon, but reading their second ask puts things into perspective. I know they are actors and are putting on a show at conventions, but I would bet Jared and Jensen still do have a lot of genuine affection for each other, but whether that truly translates into them still being "besties" i don’t know. They seem like rather different people these days. Then again, they could be just as tight, or never speak at all, outside of cons, and we’d never know either way.

Anyway, my point is, when the ask sounded like Jared is avoiding cons with Jensen because he’s a bad friend and he just can’t stand being around him anymore, this seems like BS to me. This is not because the idea isn’t possible, but rather Jared has been doing cons with Jensen for two years after "prequel gate" now, so if he was that upset with Jensen, I think he would have pulled away sooner. I also think Jared (and his management) are too professional to ever tell a con manager "Jared doesn’t want to be booked with Jensen because they aren’t besties anymore," which sounds like grade school crap. So, if the anon was making the "they aren’t friends so no more cons together" claim, I would call BS.

However, when we look at the idea of Jared pulling away for business reasons, I actually think that makes sense. Doing supernatural conventions almost exclusivity for three years past the end of the show is getting a bit much. I think if COVID hadn’t blown everything up for a couple years there, this might have happened sooner, prequel or no prequel drama. I almost wonder if prequel drama might have kept Jared around longer in order to prove that things were fine (incase the Js actually do get a Supernatural revival going in a few years). I was just at Charlotte and it was a lot of fun, the guys were great and seemed to be vining well and happy to be around each other (Jared especially was awesome and in good spirits), but it’s a bit telling that a con where we can’t ask questions about the show did just fine because fans barely ask about the show anymore anyway. As much as I like seeing J2 together and I don’t really plan to go to any events that have just one of them, I think from a business point of view, Jared is smart to cut back on CE cons or ones he shares with Jensen, especially if he had any jobs brewing. Besides, they still have four cons that we know of scheduled together next year and I’m betting there will be a couple more, so it’s not like they’ll never work together again, or get to hang out at cons.

Sorry this got so long. Feel free to disregard if you don’t feel like posting.

Have a good one. 😊

"Anyway, my point is, when the ask sounded like Jared is avoiding cons with Jensen because he’s a bad friend and he just can’t stand being around him anymore, this seems like BS to me." I'll admit, my initial reaction was much like yours, which is why my initial response implied this, but I should clarify that the European anon never implied or indicated that the split was due to their friendship, or lack thereof. That was just me reacting.

But I'm with you, in that, the longer I had to think about it, the more it made sense as a business move. A cult show can only take an actor so far, and maybe some are okay with doing the convention circuit the rest of their lives for that cult show (it's certainly profitable), but if an actor wants to remain marketable, they need to expand their brand and their reach to show buyers that they can pull in fans for their other projects and that they aren't just a one-trick pony.

[compo67]

18, 20 and 21 for Garbage, The Shortest Distance and Post Hole Diggers? Thanks xxxooo!

Hellooo anon!

Oh wow, these are throwback fics! I'm so glad to answer questions about them. :D

18. If you wrote a sequel to TSD and PHD, what would it involve?

For TSD, I'd write a sequel with a little bit of J2's experience fighting in WWII. But I'd mainly want to focus on J2 adopting their daughter and getting their ranch up and running. I'd love to write about their experiences with changing technology and the difference between living in the Dust Bowl and living in rural Montana.

For PHD, I'd write a sequel all about J2 managing their ranch (wow, here's a theme lol). I'd include lots of Grams and Luke, even Jared's step brothers and sister. It'd focus on Jensen falling even more in love with Jared, despite their age difference (another theme lol). And Jared growing up to understand that some things are worth waiting for. :)

20. If you wrote a prequel to TSD and PHD, what would it involve?

Ooh. For TSD I'd write about Jared's marriage with Cole and how tangled up they were, but how frustrating it was to try and tame the land and raise cattle. There'd be mentions here and there of Jensen writing to Cole and Cole writing back.

For PHD I'd probably write this from Jensen's POV and get into the drama that happened between him, Luke, and Kate. There would be snippets of Luke mentioning his new step-son Jared. But we'd get to see more of Jensen's relationship with his grandfather, and how close they were until memory loss really set in.

21. If you wrote a “missing scene” in TSD and PHD, what would it be?

You know what, as cheesy as it sounds, I wouldn't change a thing about either fic. I think they are both great as they are. But, okay, if I *had* to, I'd write a scene in TSD where Jared imagines more of a future for himself, one that involves education and a steady, stable environment. For PHD, I'd write another scene with Jared and Jensen working on digging post holes and Jared asking him twenty questions so we get a little more information about Jensen. Then, Jensen would flip the script and ask Jared a ton of questions. It'd evolve into flirting and the two of them would end up even more confused about each other than they began.

I hope you enjoyed this glimpse into the past, anon! So lovely to revisit older fics, especially these two. <3

-Cal

[eisforeidolon]

https://www.tumblr.com/eisforeidolon/718782188223594496/httpstwittercommonafone618status166338788879

There really is a dangerous level of over-investment in J2's relationship (and other actors' relationships with them) from people on all sides of fandom.

I’ll admit, I absolutely loved the fact that Jared and Jensen were/seemed incredibly close, and it added something special to Supernatural for me. It felt …wholesome … or something to see two celebrities who genuinely seemed to form a close bond with each other. Yet, I started watching the show not that long before the prequel announcement, and when that and the surround crap happened, it made me sad. Not, ruin my life sad, but disappointed that they maybe weren’t as close as they seemed. So, I get feeling disappointment.

Do I think Jared and Jensen are as close as they used to be? No. They have basically said as much themselves, saying they mostly hang out at times surrounding cons these days, but they also mention texting and things like that. But does this mean they hate each other now? Um, no. This is just about the most likely scenario (hanging out less and mostly hanging out at cons) when they aren’t working on the same project and have families with kids who are getting older. Also, last year and this year have had a ton of cons, sometimes twice a month. Hell, I’m lucky if I see my best friend once a month and we both live and work in the same town. Adults lives just get busy. I do think they still care about each other, not being physically beside each other at all times doesn’t mean they don’t care, but I don't know if they are still "besties," anymore, either. Honest,y, I don’t need them to be. I’m happy if they are still happy to do cons together and maybe work together on a project at some point. I still enjoy watching them play-off each other.

That Twitter post talks about them being like magic and now it’s all gone. I disagree with this. They still have good chemistry, but they are also older and can be a little more reserved than when they were both in their 30s. Again, this should also be expected. It’s like J2 aren’t supposed to be normal humans who are allowed to grow and change or something.

So, I get feeling sad that they didn’t seem (we don’t actually KNOW this) as close, but that doesn’t mean they are enemies now, and never want to do anything together again. Also, as you pointed out, Jensen already directed Walker. It’s like this twitter person thinks projects and show are just J2's for the picking, and all they’re have to do to work on a project together is just pick one and go. It’s not easy to get anything going in Hollywood, never mind a project with your buddy when you both need to work in the meantime.

Yeah. I mean, I've always been fond of J2's friendship, but I am also very aware that they're not just separate distinct individuals but ... actors. Some fans have this very weird idea that actors must necessarily have the same relationships between themselves IRL as their characters have on their show. That's just ... not how it works. Jared and Jensen don't have to be attached at the hip to play Sam and Dean continuing to be that way in some hypothetical SPN continuation.

At the end of the day, the only people who really fully understand how prequelgate affected J2's relationship? Are Jared and Jensen themselves. As you say, in adult relationships, how often you see each other does not necessarily directly correspond to how close of friends you are. You're also not wrong that there's a lot of fans who desperately NEED them to either be just as close as ever or hate each other's guts - as if middle ground between those two alternatives isn't even possible.

And yeah, fans insisting they'll never work together again already are completely ignorant (or at least ignoring) that it's not just as easy as wanting to work together and it immediately happening tomorrow in a puff of magical fairy dust. Again, it's only been three years since SPN ended. In terms of developing projects, that is really not that long at all.

[walker-290]

//Be serious, this man has a wife and family and Jared, while a needy friend, is not his whole life. I for one am glad he cut Jared off a bit. Jensen needs to focus on his own family and career, not the Jared drama. Mind you, the Jared fans are worse than JP.// - Anon, maybe instead of trolling around blogs that say negative things about your fave, you should let Jensen know that this is what he should be doing?? Because he clearly didn't get the memo. He's been consistently bragging at cons about how being away from his family is "their normal" and talking wayyyyy too much about why that's totally ok and great. And newsflash - none of it makes him sound good!! Comparing his fatherhood to John Winchester was not the flex he thought it was. Bragging about telling ALL his kids to their face which one is his fave is not the flex he thought it was. Etc. And he didn't/hasn't "cut Jared off a bit", he cut him out of his money grab, legacy stealing prequel then expected nothing to change between them. Honestly, he's lucky Jared is so forgiving because he even mentioned that it could have gone the other way. And where is Jared a "needy friend"?? When does he even have time? That man is busier than he was on spn - lead on Walker, EP on Walker, EP on WIndy, other things in the works, plus his other businesses - and is home with his family almost every night (cons notwithstanding). I would love anon to give me any example of Jared being a "needy friend" post-spn (I don't need them bringing something up from spn days when those two were joined at the hip, I want something CURRENT please). Will we get any? Probably not. At least not any that aren't easy af to dispute.

Adding to it that, even on SPN days, when was Jared needy? And who did the stories come from? Not Jared. Remember the story when J2 were playing games with friends and Jensen said "Do you want a beer?" And didn't wait for Jared to respond and dragged Jared out for a beer?

Notice how even after a decade Jensen whines about the Soulless Sam storyline because he didn't have Jared's Sam to play against and how that threw him off his game?

Not mentioning Jensen followed Jared to Austin, it's not the other way around.

Just because "someone" avoids the stories when he himself is being needy and brags about being there for the other one, doesn't alter the reality. Post-SPN behaviour clears it all.

[nancylou444]

Honestly I decided to take a step back from all the fandom drama and I can honestly tell you I feel a hell of a lot better. I still love J2 but this drama with the fans and the prequel and everyone fighting was honestly killing me and driving me nuts. I'll forever support J2 but that's where my support ends. The extras can go dive off a cliff somewhere for all I care because the way they acting is just fueling the drama. Hope you been doing well and I'll be checking in from time to time but I'm only here because you created a safe space where I can express my love for J2 and not be criticized and I know that I'm not alone.

I definitely understand how you feel.

The prequel has bought out the 'ugly' on our 'side' of the fandom and has made THEM even more insane.

This prequel is a hot mess in so many ways. I can't wait until someone finally throws it in a trash can and it gets taken away to a landfill. Never to be seen again.

Take care of yourself. ♥

[laf-outloud]

I think Jensen purposely cultivated a kind of bland, blank untouchability as a cover for who he really is. I've known people like that and you can never trust them.

Over the years certain authentic parts of his personality have shown through, and they don't paint a pretty picture, but on the whole he's coasted by being nothing too polarizing or controversial. Prequel gate exposed more of the true nature he's been mostly able to hide because imo he thought he had nothing to prove or nothing to lose. His fans and J2 fans that bought into the pretty boy next door blandness would follow him anywhere. Turned out he completely misjudged his own importance.

You can fool some of the people all of the time and you can fool all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. He thought he could.

It's so funny to me how you can tell he's tried to create that no-drama persona, but then breaks any authenticity through his words and actions. Even the little stuff gives him away, like how he had Adam cover up the fact he was smoking in Italy, or how he panders to different audiences at conventions. It paints a picture of someone who either doesn't know who he is, or is actively trying to hide who he really is. Either look is not good.

[mwagneto]

[eisforeidolon]

On the j2 thing also … they do work together . Every single month at a con . Like , I feel like that is significant for them and something they enjoy a lot so maybe they don’t feel the need to immeditely rush into doing more tv together … which if they did straight away would just look weird because they need seperate projects and careers. No one works together forever

That is very true. I do kinda get drawing a distinction between acting together and appearing together as separate things a fan may want to see?

But in terms of their overall willingness to work together, they are still doing and scheduling a lot of cons together. Creation relabeling cons going forward would have been the perfect time for J2 to start doing separate panels without it being weird - if they wanted to.

[destiel-pirate-in-middleearth]

Misha: Some things I still can't tell you.

Jensen: Some things I still can't tell Jared.