#jc discourse

[piosplayhouse]

Not an ask I received and not directly reblogged from the publisher as they specifically asked for no discourse on their posts which I can respect but I just needed to post this because the "he's also fine with hetero relationships, including his sister's marriage and his own" made me lose it RKPWJEK ... DID WE READ THE SAME BOOK ..??? IN WHAT WORLD WAS HE FINE WITH HETERO RELATIONSHIPS ESPECIALLY HIS SISTER'S MARRIAGE 😭😭😭😭

[purpiesaint]

Jin ling loves Jiang Cheng. Saying he doesn’t is just incorrect. Also saying that he loves Wei Wuxian more is silly. He loves them both the same.

[sonik-kun]

"Stop taking away the features that make Jiang Cheng interesting!" JC antis cry, whilst simultaneously ignoring or denying all his good traits.

[twistedappletree]

Thinking about Lan Sizhui teaching Jin Ling how to play guqin.

Thinking about Jin Ling absolutely bored to tears by the fundamentals until he hears how beautifully Lan Sizhui plays and suddenly takes an interest (in the guqin, definitely the guqin, he’s interested in the guqin only, okay??)

Thinking about Jin Ling practicing outside of classes because he wants to impress Lan Sizhui by how much he’s improved and wants to make him proud and wants to see his face light up with a smile—I mean, what? No no no, he just wants to show initiative to learn, that’s all there is to it, nothing more. Nothing at all.

Thinking about Lan Sizhui finding Jin Ling asleep on his guqin after a night of wearing himself out with extra practice and gently waking him up to safely escort him back to his room so he doesn’t get caught by their seniors. Meanwhile, Jin Ling sleepily leans against him on the walk back to his room because it’s normal, he’s just tired, it’s obviously normal because Lan Sizhui slips his hand into his and smiles and Jin Ling’s heart feels like it’s on fire. Oh no.

Thinking about Jin Ling opening up to Lan Sizhui about his nightmares from all the trauma he’s endured and Lan Sizhui staying to play guqin for him until he falls asleep, each note chasing away every bad dream that tries to disturb him.

Thinking about them practicing guqin alone together the next day. And the day after. And the day after that—and they really are practicing but it’s a little hard to focus when Lan Sizhui keeps putting his hands over Jin Ling’s to move them to the correct strings, and Jin Ling’s face is a breath away from Lan Sizhui’s every time he leans over to help him.

It’s just guqin practice, that’s all there is to it, perfectly normal. 🩵💛

[fubuwu]

Fuck it. Since I'm being spat on and tarnished by jc antis I'm unashamedly doing call out posts as they have harassed me on all my posts and got their little friends to gang up on me. Starting with this "lovely" person

Calling me an abuse apologist just because I said that madame yu had tough love methods..... I was in no way excusing her abuse towards wwx with that FYI. Wwx wasnt even mentioned in the og post.... Never once denied she was abusive in the post either (in fact i ackowledged her abuse numerous times in the post and how her children act around her. But apparently you willfully missed that part). I said she had tough love methods towards her children. NOT WWX. Wwx was not her child or have you forgotten that? She has a tough love attitude in the sense that she toughens up her kids, expects no nonsense, wants them to strive to do better, get on with it, stiff upper lip attitude etc. This does not mean it's a good parenting tactic.

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Using tough love to describe her parenting technique isn't a compliment. Apparently some of you don't know what it means because tough love, whilst there is love and good intentions behind the actions, it can also have unintended bad consequences on your children and is not a form of love you should expose your child to if you want them to become normal, emotionally stable people.

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It can lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms and suppressing emotions amongst other things I won't go into. I was in no way complimenting her. It was a critique. That should have been obvious. But in your words, ig some of you don't have reading comprehension.

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To accuse me of something so extreme as excusing abuse over a FICTIONAL CHARACTER and trying to get all your friends to agree and jump on my posts because I never explicitly made the above points obvious is what a bully would do. You know nothing about me and decided to make such allegations over a single post. I will not stand for this bullying.

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YOU should be ashamed of your behavior. I've seen your other posts and how you talk about and to REAL PEOPLE.

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You acting all morally superior whilst attacking me and many others like this makes you an abusive person FYI. And I won't sit there and take it from you or your friends.

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Moving on to specimen number two

This person has been spamming my notifications jumping on EVERY post, being disrespectful and pretty much accusing me, an ace person, for being ignorant about MY OWN IDENTITY and using ace stereotypes just because I surmised that jc could be ace due to his lack of interest in romance.

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Echoing the words used by another user in the thread, but denying that such ace persons exist is acephobic in itself. I'm an ace person who isnt interested in relationships outside anything that is close, platonic but meaningful. Many others in the jc fandom say the same thing which is why they see themselves in him. A large portion of the jc fandom are actually ace in fact and we love to see him used in ace rep posts. We're already made to feel like freaks, so to have that thrown in my face is very hurtful. Above all twisting my words and making out I said every ace person hates romance is very disingenuous. I NEVER once said that in the post. I wont have my character attacked and lied about like that.

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Also, once again TWISTING my words, implying I was pissed off about the incel claims when it was so obvious that I was merely asking out of curiosity where these claims come from?? Because it was never implied in the canon text. There was no anger or malice behind my questions. It was all open discussion. I can see now that this was mental gymnastics at play here to justify your hcs that you know are not canon and use it as an excuse to attack my posts with your friends, all because you were proven wrong. You lashed out on what was an otherwise polite discussion. That behavior is all entirely on you.

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Ive only ever been respectful in my posts and they were never done to provoke arguments or hate on others opinions. So to wake up and be accused of all sorts over a fictional character is very hurtful and just shows how terribly low your side of the fandom has to stoop just to prove a point and hate on jc.

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Im not tolerating it and these blatant LIES any longer. I hope other jc antis read these posts and see how nasty you all are. And if anyone thinks this sort of treatment is okay, then you need to look inwardly and step away from the computer. I'm done here.

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

If you read any of mxtx’s books, these long deconstructions of gray morality with multiple morally dubious side characters who mirror the struggles of the MCs, both villainous and purely human, ESPECIALLY mdzs where the main character is Literally a murderous war criminal who got almost his entire family killed, and you come away from that experience being like ‘actually people who like this character who did some bad stuff (jiang cheng, meng yao, mu qing, shen jiu, he xuan, take your pick) are wrong’ then my friend you are utterly lacking in reading comprehension and boring to boot.

[sailormelanie]

Outing myself here as a Jiang Cheng apologist. By the end of this post, maybe I’ll even be a stan, who knows!

I was browsing MDZS fan discourse on the relationship between Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian and found some fans frustrated with fanfic portrayals of their relationship being more friendly than it is in canon.

I hard disagree on that, but I certainly get it. (spoilers for MDZS obvi, if for whatever reason you haven’t read it/finished reading it)

Or rather, I agree that Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng dislike each other (or parts of each other), but I contend that they still very much love each other. The problem is that, at least in canon, neither of them knows how to love the other in the right away. Their upbringing just complicates things a lot :/ Weird family shit. Weird BROTHER shit too, tbh.

All of their conversations, even during their teen years, don’t really feel “loving” (though I would still contend that their combative-ness is a form of love). Their interactions in general feel awkward at times, and words feel constantly loaded, with both of them leaving those interactions feeling relieved that it’s over. But all the actions they take on behalf of the other are surely indicative of some form of love (JC rushing without rest to save WWX from the Xuanwu of Slaughter cave; WWX GIVING HIS GOLDEN CORE TO JC; JC distracting the Wen soldiers from WWX; JC tirelessly searching for WWX when he’s presumed dead at the hands of the Wen; WWX cutting himself off from the Jiangs because while he can’t compromise on his ideals, he’s not willing to drag the sect down with him etc. etc. etc.).  By the end of canon, they may not be friends, but they’re certainly family :P Essentially, when it comes to these 2, the mantra seems to be, “I can’t love you with my words, but my actions should speak for me.”

Which like. Ugh. UGH. ACTIONS ARE ALSO GOOD, BUT PLEASE USE YOUR WORDS.

I don’t mean to speak for “The Community” (I’m an ABC), but this kind of dislike-love relationship feels pretty typical of a Chinese family dynamic.

Anyway, this is why I like reading fics (post-canon, AU or otherwise) in which they learn to communicate and/or they learn how to interpret the actions of the other, because although it’s definitely softer than what we see in canon, I like to hope that even the worst relationships can be remedied so long as love is at the baseline. Maybe I’m projecting a bit, but I think there’s enough textual evidence to at least support the basic idea.

[anqelbean]

Sometimes I open Twitter and see mxtx discourse and think "wow, I hate every single person in this conversation"

[lotusaku]

The day i start reading MDZS, it's gonna be over for yall

[ilynpilled]

the most intense hatred ive ever seen online for brienne was over the fact that george implied she is a top 3 fighter currently

[piosplayhouse]

[pharahsgf]

I really feel your post about being jumpscared by Jc apologies because it seems like even the most unrelated fic needs to shoehorn in the authors discourse opinions... Like recently I was reading something about Jin Ling and the juniors and there's randomly a couple of paragraphs about how Jc was a great caretaker and sacrificed so much for Jin Ling etc? And then in the authors notes they talk about how obviously Jc never actually hit him? Like what was the need

"what was the need" is literally what goes through my mind when i read a wx centric fic and the author suddenly turns one of them into a jc rights activist.. like there was this fic i once read where out of nowhere lan wangji went on this whole internal tirade about how wei wuxian was actually in the wrong in all of his and jiang cheng's disputes & it took me out of the story so hard i got motion sickness.

letting characters have their own opinions instead of using your own views as the basis for theirs is like, lesson #1 of character writing but i don't think these ppl got the memo 💔 bc lbr nobody in mdzs or cql has any reason to shill for jiang cheng like these people do, even jin ling has no issue admitting jiang cheng is in the wrong most of the time

[sonik-kun]

Imagine obsessively hating a character? It's like, y'all aren't even writing meta on him at this point. You're just hating for the sake of hating. You do realise that by engaging in tags concerning the character you supposedly hate, the algorithm picks up on that and shows you more JC related content?

Here's a tip. If you don't like seeing positive JC posts or fanon art or fanfics of him, then stop talking about him. Stop obsessively combing through the tags, searching for things you dont like and looking for any excuse to bitch about him. Block JC fan accounts if you must. That will fix that little problem of yours.

Oh, and stop criticising fanfics and art, too. Why are you even reading a JC fanfic if you don't like him? Fics are often tagged appropriately.. If you're looking for a specific fic, read the tags.. You'll find what you're looking for that way.. I can guarantee the fic you're looking for is out there.. Instead of making pointless posts complaining about these problems, maybe take responsibility and curate your own fandom experience? Instead of bashing people's work? And asking why we make this content at all when the answer is so simple? We just want to have fun.

Just some friendly advice xoxox

[rkivees]

I still can't help but find hella funny that a servant's son was placed higher than a sect leader's son on the list of top cultivator gentlemen.

When a society that values where you come from and the money and influence to your name more than the person you truly are made that ranking....isn't that telling you all you need to know?

[labyrynth]

PSA for “canon jiang cheng” folks:

please stop using the “subordinate” thing as a basis for your arguments. that word does not mean what you seem to think it means.

y’all talk about jc asking wwx to be his subordinate as if it’s like some show of disrespect. some of y’all literally use it as “evidence” that jc “never cared about wwx” and that he “never viewed wwx as anything but a servant” but like.

my friends. subordinate literally just means “someone with a lower rank (than someone else).” it does not carry any connotations of subservience, servitude, lesser worth, or disrespect.

we understand how sect leadership works in mdzs, yes? there is One (1) sect leader.

Everyone who is Not the sect leader, but is affiliated with that sect, is Subordinate to the Sect Leader.

nobody ever claims that lan xichen didn’t care about lan wangji, lan qiren, or any of the juniors, even though they were all subordinate to him as the sect leader.

nobody ever claims that jin guangshan viewed madame jin, jin zixuan, or jin zixun as “just servants” or even servants at all, even though they were all subordinate to him as the sect leader.

hell, nobody even claims that nie mingjue viewed meng yao as “just a servant,” even when meng yao actually WAS a servant!

[edit: apparently some people are taking objection to calling meng yao as a servant? y’all, they literally made him be their water boy. what would you call that?]

that’s just how leadership works! being subordinate isn’t a bad thing!! it’s just “a person who has a boss”

“right-hand-man” IS a subordinate position to “sect leader,” and it’s also literally the highest position jc could have given wwx without quite literally making wwx sect leader!

so like. unless you ARE legitimately arguing that jiang cheng should have forced wei wuxian to become sect leader of yunmengJiang, just…please drop it.

that word Does Not mean what you Think it means. the thing you are Mad about is Made Up. please just let it go.

[layzeal]

i will not stand for wwx slander (claiming he didn't turn into a murderous nutjob because of trauma)