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randomnameless · 23 days

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Drankengard done (land 2!)

A lot of nice things in this part, so far it feels like the most FE-like land, and some characters from this land are really interesting!

l firstly love how the plot starts with "we have to rescue this midget prince from 100k soldiers" in one of the few defend maps of this game with various catapults and other engines to attack/defend against a cluster of loldiers coming at you - that was nice compared to the nigh useless ballistas and other engines in FE.

Granted, Gilbert's defining moment after being revealed is basically protecting his vassal from a gotoh-like character who's twice his size and more or less recruiting her for the defend map -

(localisation thingie : no "kisama" for eng/fr script Gilbert, sure it's kind of complicated to put it in words - like an agressive "you" - and yet it gives some nice characterisation, after Amalia rekts Leah and while Gilbert is standing seconds before being surrounded by 100k peons in front of someone who's basically stronger than anyone else around, he is still angry and pissed for his friend's sake) -

Just before being upset at asking our party - aka a foreign nation who was at war with his for the last few decades and revealing that his dad only granted asylum to the princess of said foreign nation to marry her to his heir to conquer it later on - for help.

Hopefully for him his game is no Triangle Strategy, so no one will actually tell him to eat shit because he wasn't the one who liberated the land even if he participed to instead worship the "foreign" person who led the liberation army.

Hell, idk what kind of PR campaign Gilbert and his few loyal soldiers pulled out, but some NPCs are really acting as if he liberated his kingdom single handedly lol

His relationship with his elder brother was sort of developed in the main plot - but more in the equivalent of the support convos - but as I said in another post, I really loved that part where he feels like he's still a second prince, and if his older brother returns, older brother should get the crown even if older brother feels like dirt for failing his country and his father, and became a wandering... mercenary who's busy saving priestresses from jails (and leaving them in the middle of battlefields).

Ultimately, they reunite and more or less solve their issues, and Ludwig manages to tell him that he wouldn't be half the king Gilbert is, because Gilbert is the one who led a rebellion and ultimately led Drakengard free, is loved by this people etc etc.

TBH, while it was short, this was a nice character arc -

(complete with the support/rapport convo just after the final map I unlocked where Gilbert, wanting to know how the common people live in his kingdom, gets plastered with the a random worthless bandit/merc who's freaking out from the entire situation lol)

The other major character from Drakengard is Virginia, the MC's older cousin!

We first see her being kind of pushy and overbearing, sometimes taking the initiative to do rather extreme stuff (wanting to fetch her axe instead of recruiting the earlier worthless bandit/merc), but she's still deferring to the MC, save for a certain mission - because, and kuddos to the game for going there, while Virginia's story is basically a tragic Marth's, aka, when her kingdom was invaded she had to run away to a foreign state for asylum but without any Jeigan, she believed for 10 years and never stopped believing that she was the only one who survived, and thus it was her role and duty to restore the Cornian line on the throne and take back the country from the evil Empire.

And... MC pops up, as the rightful - aka the son of the late queen as opposed to her mere niece - heir thus Virginia's hopes of becoming the Queen and the one to restore her nation vanish.

So kuddos for the game to basically have Virginia tell her cousin that while she was happy to see him and learn he was alive after all those years... she also felt jealous, because the 10 last years she spent having this dream and hope to be the one to restore the country... vanished in 10 minutes lol.

She's not going to challenge Alain's claim to the throne and instead will support him.

Granted, this moment becomes ten times more interesting if you do her own mission before - aka the one where she zerg rushes against the dude who slaughtered her retinue against the advice of Jeigan Joseph and becomes a dreaded green unit (who loses her promotion somehow???), running in a battlefield full of catapults to have her vengeance.

Remember when I said one of her first defining moments is when she asks to be handed her axe to get rid of a worthless merc instead of recruiting him? Well, her words back then were something like "your men died for you, so you can't beg for your life" or something like that, we learn in her own mission that she was basically talking about herself.

Basically, kid!Virginia was supposed to have her Jeigans and Cain/Abel/Draugs and they were supposed to escape and run away together to Drakengard... but they were slaughtered by some general of the evil empire who thought bringing her head would make a good offering to the evil emperor, so the Jeigans, Cains, Abel, Draugs etc etc laid down their lives to allow her to escape - we have a voiced FB with a few images and a battle cinematic, where the knights basically say they will die to make sure she'll be able to escape, and will slow down the evil general with their corpses if needed.

The entire platoon of knights died, and Virginia has been carrying this trauma for ten years, dreaming of having her revenge but never once confiding in anyone from Drakengard about it - not even in her (Gilbert's) vassal Leah who she seemed to be close too earlier.

Short story, the general holds a fort and is supposed to be called back to the evil empire's capital for some reason, and instead of waiting for his departure to recapture the fort, Virginia storms at the general to have her revenge (accompanied by the knights who were just squires when she had to leave, and thus couldn't be there when their senior knights were slaughtered and want revenge as much as she does!).

You have to send Joseph to talk to her to have her turn blue again (and promoted again thank gods) and the re-recruitment scene is cool for 2 things :

1/it's Joseph, not Alain who talks to her because her beef and the one who talked to her and the one whose plan is ignored is Joseph - I love it when the MC isn't at the center of everyone's universe

2/Virginia during this convo notices her friends/knights are injured (they have the injured sprite) and realises she was going to send to their death the last remaining members of that platoon, chastises herself and her next battle lines are something like "I won't let them die/bleed anymore" or something and it's fucking powerful because hey, besides some "vengeance is empty" that she will get later on herself, part of what makes her see reason is the realisation that her allies are injured and were going to die in her quest, and she can't have that anymore (nice ludonarration moment here, Virginia is a tank, if her allies are injured, it's because she wasn't tanking well enough!).

"Vengeance is empty" moment : the evil general who slaughtered her former knights doesn't even remember the people he slaughtered, or the mission where he hunted her, aka, she's been obsessing for 10 years over something her so called "nemesis" forgot.

End of the map, the realisation that her vengeance was nothing + she put her close allies' lives in danger (+ the little bit of salt when she mentions that Alain is the Cornian Royal people should follow because he is royalty) make her want to leave the army as fitting punishment - which, you know, coming from a series where some lord basically goes 1VS1 against the guy who killed his dad and who was followed by his kid sister who put herself in mortal danger but only receives a scold from his not-mom and slap on the wrist just makes me side-eye FE Tellius' writing even more.

Anyways, while I read on redshit that some people were pissed because "wah wah Virginia is a character who does foolish things and there are consequences about it she should be exiled forever or something", she obviously doesn't leave the army because, all of her close allies ask her to stay. Hell, Alain only gives one or two sentences that are dispassionate compared to the other 4 - again to show that MC privileges aren't everything at least plot wise - but the main voice is Leah's - aka her (well) Drakengard retainer!

When earlier Virginia told her that this story and her choice had nothing to do with Drakengard - because it's about Cornian knights who died during her flight from Cornia - Leah now reminds her that she became someone important for Drakengard too, and you know, the 10 years she spent here ? It's not just only background to give some fluff for a teatime line, no, it has more implication, if not only to have this moment where Leah says that Virginia's pride, bravery and hope to restore her country also influenced and inspired people (Gilbert, the second son who had to assume the role of the King when no one else was left!) around her and made the people of Drakengard also hope to liberate their country - if she leaves now, the named character from Cornia will miss her, but also "Drakengard" in general.

To cement her words, after this map we can talk to some Drakengard NPC who's all "wow Princess Virginia is so cool she defeated the bastard in charge of this fortress!" and while idk if Leah's speech + that NPC were added to make the ending where she becomes the queen of Drakengard (save for Alain marrying his cousin) more plausible, but it was a really nice addition.

Adding to that the fact that Virginia is the one who's basically telling Alain (and informing the player) about various map hazards like geysers around the land, giving some backstory about the desert along with Leah and also the one who tells the party about a sort of shortcut/secret passage and yes, we get it that she lived for 10 years in that land and knows it enough to act as a guide, but also that the people around know her.

I mean compare with a game where some dude apparently went to a school in a foreign capital but when he marches on said foreign capital or talks to people who also attended that school he never mentions it - it's like night and day.

Final "daw" moment that is both tied to her character but also, another example that Alain isn't the center of the universe... Virgnia is the one who tells Alain to talk to Aramis (the eldest prince who became a merc!) and ask him to talk to Gilbert to put his worries aside about the throne and the succession and ust, to reunite with his younger brother.

The characters concerned (Gilbert and Aramis) thank Alain for giving them the occasion and push to talk to each other - not knowing this was something Virginia planned, because while hers and Gilbert's issues are sort of similar (the not "legitimate" heir who took the mantle of restoring their country to glory and believed it so for the last decade, only for the legitimate one to return), she has a good enough read on Gilbert to know that he needs to talk to his brother to put his doubts and questions about his legitimacy aside and accept that he is the King.

Coming from a series with "avatar scissors", the bonds and links between the characters was really something I enjoyed, Alain will not pop up and tell Gilbert that he is a good king and should get over/or deal with his doubts about his brother, Alain isn't the one who gives the most meaningful speech about why Virginia is important to Drakengard and hell, we don't even see the exchange we know he had with Aramis to convince him to talk to Gilbert, because the most important scene here isn't the Alain-Aramis dialogue, but the Aramis-Gilbert one. Gilbert doesn't want to free his Kingdom because he envies Alain or Alain told him to do so, it's something he wants to do being inspired by Virginia.

In a nutshell, Drakengard's major characters were a good surprise and their stories and quests were cool.

More minor character wise...

We get the Drakengard version of the same plague we saw in Cornia, but instead of having "clerics" perform experiments on infected people to find a cure, the accent here is put on a wyvern knight who was to enforce a lockdown, to prevent the plague from spreading and well... no fines in this setting, instead she runs them through with her spear.

IDK how that game would have been received just after Covid lol

All jokes asides, just like the Cornian version of this plot heavily suggested, the plague was devised by the evil empire to cut down the forces of the rebellion and make sure this land would be able to be conquered easily.

Why are the imperials killing people? Well, it might have to do something with the fact that the totes-not-gharnef old sorcerer guy is a necromancer...

Leah's quest explored a little more the background info that "Drakengard and Cornia used to be at war" thingie, with random green units also mounting a liberation army but refusing our help, and we know how this ends with green units, we basically have to save them.

Map ends with some Drakengardians - who swore allegeance to the evil Empire? - still willing to fight us, and Alain asking Leah to please ask them, as a Drakengardian (?) to surrender because if someone from Cornia asks them they will refuse.

Also it's a bit of a character exploration, for once the usually demure + always in the back behind Virginia asks the Liberation Army to do something and insists even if people refuse, straight up saying that in that case (if they refuse) she's going to help the green NPCs herself since she's strong enough to do so and it's cool because I think at one moment Virginia sighs/laughs, but not in a derogatory way, but more in some "damn she's becoming like me" way - which is alluded to in ther rapport conversation, Leah seeks to emulate her bold and fearless (being a green unit) behaviour.

I haven't seen a lot of convos with the desert people we recruit - thank goodness we're far from Hyzante's clichés even if the "people in the desert are bandits and former prisoners" trope is still here, but given how the ones who attack us were brainwashed by the evil Empire, it's not as aggravating as, well, Nopes or Hyzante.

Gameplay wise :

Damn if promoting your units cost medals, but it's so worth it to have more than one action (at least) per turn ! It also means we can use entire new strategies because now the turns are at least longer than one round each!

Drakengard fills the Jugdral quota with the group of units coming all at once at you sometimes lol, but I loved the aesthetic difference that ultimately became gameplay difference between this area and Cornia, basically we have more mountains to less space to manoeuver the non flying units, the enemies use AoE engines to ruin you or at times, AoE map abilities from their own units to deal some annoying amount of damage.

The cities are larger so instead of fighting in a meadow with one or two small buildings here and there, at times the fight takes place in an entire city, so again, it means reduced mobility and of course, desert sucks because, just like FE, you can't move well in the sand.

Lolcalisation wise :

Virginia "I have never been fond of court formalities" says a desert full of bandit isn't a place for "royalty like us"? When the "us" is both her and her cousin reknown for their martial abilities?

What the fuck does it mean ?

At least in FR it's "a lot of people avoid this place" and not just "royalty like us" - which doubles as ridiculous because in the "people avoid this place" it's again the trend of Virginia being a tour guide of Drankengard, telling Alain that people from Drakengard think about the desert, eluding this part is also, in part, eluding part of the knowledge Virginia has about Drakengard.

I think the localisation took the "royal pride" that defines her and exaggerated it to "royal arrogance".

IDK if the meaning is the same in english, cretin is an insult like in french, but damn if you say to someone the are a "crétin" they will feel offended and insulted because that's way more rude than calling someone an idiot!

And I also have a bone against whoever thought it was a good idea to throw "pseudo elvish" words in the localised script (sadly we followed this :'() when the japanese audio doesn't use them at all, was it to pretend the evles from Fevrith have a different language because Tolkien shall be universal, or what?

Elf land doesn't see that interesting plot wise compared to Drakengard, and I'm not saying this because of my Alcina bias lol but I'll just have to wait and see!

(poor hodrick is being slaughtered by those pesky pointy ears and their hybrid attacks, tfw armor not withstanding magic is universal, I'll have to promote Miriam asap to protect him or just bench him :/)

#unicorn overlord stuff #i like Alain but seeing other characters run the show is just #super cool after the avatar wanking from the previous FE titles or the general lord wanking #small Gilbert kisama-ing Amalia was hilarious lol #too bad it was localised away #the redshit double standard regarding Virginia though #Alain if he didn't had Joseph could also zerg rush against Galerius and get him and his friends killed because he wants revenge #what not having joseph does to someone lol #alain notices it in their rapport convo #Virginia had no time to play board games like him in those ten years since their country fell she trained and nurtured her vengeance #while also navigating this foreign country on her own and learning a lot about it and its people #no banging swords together with lex on a beach lol #but in general much like BK #I like how background matters for characters and how some of them have a lot of ties thanks to that background #to others it feels natural #and while I know Alain can ultimately use his MC scissors to marry/become BFF with everyone #at least as for the plot mandated interactions people can talk to each other #outside of support convos #can you imagine if we could have a scene post Flayn's kidnapping where we happen on Doro talking to Manu and worrying about her health?#but like a full cutscene and not only two characters being next to each other to have 3 lines on the world map?#I'll miss the bgm for Drakengard the Elfheim one isn't as catchy :(

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dirtyoldmanhole · 1 month

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in defense of revelation

most of y'all know me as a pre-tumblr tellius fan who recently got suckered into fates/(especially revelation) in the past year and how often i've repeatedly stated how very fucking glad i was not around for peak fates fan/hatedom. even living afar from the field in other fandoms for that brief 2015-2021 time period, fates discourse was... special, to say the least.

me being me, i do want to take a step back and consider in good faith... why?

why the outsized hatedom for rev especially?

every FE game has its warts with its strengths. and i feel like i'm in a unique position of seeing from a more macro/neutral standpoint having abruptly fallen in love with fates/rev when it's left in the dust for shinier games, and whose viewpoint was never really colored either which way while also living the historical context of the series. (shoot at one point i was a by-default fates hater/"pre-DS fe" snob; I freely admit to eating my own words).

the odd bit of it all is that revelation is by far my favorite of the routes. yes, gunter's outsized impact on the plot is a large part of it, but I actually think I would still like it over conquest/(certinally over birthright and a good 90% of FE games) even if another character had taken that role, as long as it was handled in a similarly complex way (anankos' cosmic horror shtick was fuckin' rad).

let's start with the common criticisms (a few picked from this halfway reasonable reddit thread that attempts something similar) and others gleaned elsewhere from the interwebs over the year.

the unit balancing

IMO this is the fairest criticism of the list; i can see why a bunch of underleveled units handed out slowly before the cast rolls into valla would be a legitimate annoyance to old hats and newcomers alike.

that said: something about gameplay with Fates that i think was brilliant is there's a massive intentional difference between royals and every other character. royals get special weapons, they're a class unto themselves literally and also in being able to solo entire swaths of levels. (birthright being a literal name of one of the routes, for pete's sake.) i've attempted both a rev run with royals and a rev run without royals (using gunter too lol) back to back and honestly the sheer difficulty spike is genuinely fascinating from a story perspective.

you feel how utterly powerless non-royals feel.

(also given people mostly emotionally got attached to the royals.... in the other two routes they were probably willing to wait a little longer for their blorbo to appear and assuaged by many cutscenes of them.)

also tangent, but gameplay wise: i also kind of want to push back at the redditor in the thread above who mentioned rev as a sandbox experience of Fates; I can see why they would say that as it's perceived as the neutral route, when personally it's better framed as the valla-specific route with a very tight cast focus (ie the characters that actually impact the plot); having almost the whole cast being playable was just a type of newgame+ bonus. like i wouldn't expect a nohrian character to get much limelight in birthright in favor of the hoshidans, so too would I not expect a non valla-related character to get as much focus and decent treatment in rev.

very petty add on: if i can make mister zero stats grandpa OHKO ryoma in rev on my second run, git gud shrub

the story

so here's the thing.

i'm objectively biased by being head over heels for gunter as a character and his outsized impact on lategame rev - but i don't think i'm wrong with saying that people were looking for the wrong thematic beats regarding revelation's story with how it was framed beyond itself.

if you focus on the adults - mikoto, arete, gunter, garon, and the unaffiliated characters that didn't get a chance to shine in the other two nation-specific routes (azura, lilith, anankos, corrin's backstory in the northern fortress) - revelation will blow your socks off with how nuanced and interwoven between the characters mentioned above the story is.

you just need to give it a fair chance.

gimmick maps

this is honestly where i laugh a little and simply gesture to three houses' objectively terrible same-y maps. TH had other strengths; its maps are not one of them. i'd rather take a memorable gimmick in a heartbeat than 4/5ths of a game i straight up do not remember the levels (a criticism that could also go for FE11/12/most of the series pre FE7).

the snow shoveling map in particular draws the most ire (fair lol), but let's take that map out, and.... honestly none of the others feel egregarious? FE's done 'only three characters deployed" before (the cave chapter which is pretty short and not too unbalanced). the moving platforms have been done in FE7. the traps in anankos' lair were honestly pretty fun for instilling more of the horror/claustrophobic vibe and didn't have total buzzkills like powerful ranged magic bosses to ruin your day (FE6/7/16 lookin' at you).

of fates' routes, conquest's maps age a little bit better by being generally emotionally married to the story beats more, but personally i find they're a little overtuned at times. honestly the worst i can say is that conquest's maps overshine the other two routes when the other two routes had pretty decent-to-good map design that age well by their own right.

the babyrealms

sure, and.............? honestly i feel like every FE game has its completely anime whack-ass mechanic from space.

the best part is the children mechanic in fates is completely optional and segregated from the story - if you hate it that much it doesn't even have to exist. god knows i wish the My Unit/time travel of Awakening onwards didn't exist, or the kids of FE13 didn't exist, or the whole "secret space technology" of FE16 didn't exist, or the toothpaste hair of Engage, or the fucking gameplay of FE4/6, and frankly the laguz can be a bit tough to swallow as an idea if you didn't grow up with the anime tropes of cat girls or shapeshifters at the time (and the anvilicious anti-racism themes) -- all of which are way more plot relevant to their respective games.

'just fighting zombies for the latter half'

ironically i'm usually the first person to absolutely despise the 'fighting non-characters/nameless zombies' trope. so i do sympathize.

one: honestly that critique isn't that much different than the FE-bog-standard 'fight twenty maps packed with samey soldiers of the Bad Evil Country' (FE9 with daein alas) - if anything, like FE8, zombies are a nice change of pace and rev even one-ups sacred stones by giving the possessed vallites an extra bit of fridge horror if you give one temporary shit about the vallites.

a better defense though, is much like how i think viewing Final Fantasy 7 as anything but a massive homage to sci-fi horror would be a miss to its story, visual, and emotional beats - i also think it'd be a miss to not recognize that revelation is the cosmic horror of fire emblem.

the slowly-revealed possession of someone very precious to corrin. the needless deaths of named cast members. anankos' entire freaking design. the last four-five chapters of fighting your own parents/parental figures who both plead with you to kill them while also trying to convince you to let them kill you, holy fuck. peak psychological horror here too, and i feel like fates is in a uniquely better position with its focus on incestual family dynamics to drive home the emotional impact to the player (if you've married some specific characters like azura and gunter) as well as pull from classic gothic horror - especially brilliant with the nohrian's constant linkage to vampires, another staple of gothic horror.

oh gunter, gunter gunter.

I can't get around this point since I have heard him specifically mentioned (lol) as a failing of revelation. oh zero stats granpda. what are we going to do with you.

(keep in mind i'm not going to be able to tackle all of these sub-points since this would literally be a 20k essay by itself which this blog kinda frankly covers in various degrees; this is a summary).

but let's start with the more objective bits.

ultimately, i ... think a lot of people were really skeeved the fuck out by gunter's possession plotline in the sense it was a huge bet that the series had never done. there were a handful of gunter fans from conquest who would normally be all over his expanded spotlight that fall into this bucket, in addition to the folks that just did not jive with his type of arc/character and who were never gonna like rev. (that's fine, y'all got two whole other games to play in).

giving its jeigan character actual teeth, actual cold-blooded motivations and hatreds and a betrayal that worked entirely at odds with the royal-simping game (and series) didn't help. he never apologized for it either.

giving its jeigan a spotlight role when youth is valorized, and old age demonized to a questionable degree didn't help. (ya notice the ages of all the heroes and villains? the really squicky visual character consistency of beauty equals goodness in anime / that FE is no better at?) his story almost lowkey requires a little maturity to get, higher than the average age of a fates player.

giving its jeigan a nuanced personality that could be caring and protective as much as deeply manipulative (even and especially to corrin) didn't help. locking behind half of their relationship to CQ supports and half his backstory/chats with the rest of the cast being unlocalized likewise didn't help.

giving its jeigan actual sexual menace didn't help. ( in an already sexually-charged game, there are a few very specific lategame possession scenes where that also bleeds over to his role, nevermind his CQ S-support. and crucially, when that slipping mask jarred directly against the father role that people project on him with corrin).

.... and all of those points is exactly why i think his arc is some of the most brilliant writing in the series.

Fates was especially good with taking tired tropes and twisting them just enough in a fucky/power-tilt-y way that it left the player off kilter while giving the games, ultimately, a bittersweet resolution.

some folks don't like that feeling; but i think it was an injection of real charisma and balls in a series that always draws from its specific time-period in history.

thank you for reading ~

#drunk daddy jeigan thirstposts one day massive academic essays the next u never know what you'll get here lol #meta

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