#jttw reading group

[journeythroughjourneytothewest]

Oh, the agony of a monk living in a murderous world trying to explain to a murder monkey who got a lot of what he wanted through murder why he shouldn't murder :(

[ryin-silverfish]

Chapter 18: What a Swine!

-A few pages into the chapter, and I found the first hook to go on a giant tangent: according to Gao Cai, Gao Village is located in the Kingdom of Qoco. I have no idea why Yu translated it as such, since the original Chinese name——Wusi Zang(乌斯藏, a transliteration of dbus gtsang) sounds nothing like that, but in short, it's the Ming dynasty name for Tibet.

-However, a quick glance at this map would show you that the real Xuanzang didn't cross Tibet during his journey; rather, he went the long way around the Himalayas, travelling on the Central Asian Silk Road. In the Ming dynasty, if you wanna go to India, you could actually take the route through the Himalayas and Nepal, but it wasn't there in the Tang dynasty (because there were a couple of hostile kingdoms in the way; Tuyuhun, Tubo, etc.)

-Sidenote, I absolutely love how JTTW '86 adapted this chapter, with SWK getting his flirt on and the legendary "Pigsy Carrying His Bride" sequence that had made its way into many subsequence adaptations.

-JTTW Research had written pretty comprehensively about Pigsy's origins, from the Daoist deity Marshal Canopy to his ties with Marici, an import deity with a boar mount who's also associated with the Dipper Constellation. As such, I only had one tidbit to add about possible inspirations for his character in folklore that predated the above.

-The earliest tale about a lusty pig demon could be found in the Tang dynasty Xuan Guai Lu(玄怪录). Guo Yuanzhen, a historical general during the reign of Gaozong and Wu Zetian, came across a mansion in his youth during travel. The whole place was lavishly decorated, as if preparing for a wedding banquet, but eeriely empty save for one crying woman.

-Turned out, she was the unwitting soon-to-be bride of a god called "General Wu"(乌将军), who demanded a beauty as his wife every year from the locals, and because they would pay a hefty sum to "buy" said bride, her own father sold her out to be this year's sacrifice. Furious, Guo disguised himself as a guest, pretended to offer General Wu some venison, then cut off his hand with the meat knife.

-Wounded, the General fled, and his severed limb turned into a pig's hoof once the sun came out. Soon, the bride's family and village elders came to the manor, ready to collect her body for the funeral, and were so freaked out by what Guo did that they were ready to sacrifice him to General Wu too, since the "god" was known to summon storm and hails whenever he didn't get his bride.

-Guo scolded them for being so damn guillible because no real gods would demand human sacrifices or, y'know, have pig hooves as hands, before gathering the young men of the villages and following the trail of blood to the pig demon's abode, where they proceeded to smoke it out and kill it with an assortment of arrows and farming tools.

-The woman, after calling out her terrible parents, pledged herself to Guo and became one of his wives, and all was well.

-Honestly, Pigsy's evolution from his folklore origins to JTTW Zaju to JTTW novel seemed to be one in which he became increasingly sympathetic; from basically being a more lusty version of Guanyin's goldfish, to an opportunistic kidnapper who took advantage of a pair of star-crossed lovers' family feud, to an ex-deity turned reformed demon who kinda got screwed over by his in-laws.

-Final note: Pigsy bragged that even if they could get the "Monster-Routing Patriarch" to come down from the Nine Heaven and exorcise him, he could still claim to be an old buddy of the guy. Which…wasn't wrong, considering that "Monster-Routing Patriarch" was the title of Emperor Zhenwu, Lord of the North, who was worshipped alongside Marshal Canopy as one of the Four Saints of the North Pole.

@journeythroughjourneytothewest

[nikofortuna]

JTTW Chapter 4 Thoughts

Chapter Four for the @journeythroughjourneytothewest Reading Group! There will be a bit of a rant in this, especially about the first official title Sun Wukong gets.

Anyway we got Horsegirl Wukong in this one! Yippie!

Plus I would like everyone to see the horses from the 1964 Havoc in Heaven movie. Look at them! They are so pretty with their cloud manes and so cute when they frolic about and interact with Sun Wukong!

He puts so much effort into caring for the horses! And is really nice to the other stable workers as well, I don’t think he really cares much about hierarchy outside of actual work perhaps.

However I will forever be salty towards Heaven for messing up so badly in this. They were halfway there as well with giving him the perfect job, something he liked to do and did very well! But they didn’t give him a special title to reflect/acknowledged his actual power.

Nor did they explain how starting of low and ascending through the ranks works, which might have been able to prevent the outrage as well. They know that they can just explain things to Sun Wukong, the Gold Star literally did so at the Gate. And then the Jade Emperor even acknowledged that the Monkey King didn’t know how things worked yet!

Honestly at that point the only reason has to be that they wanted to mock him. And given the first official title he receives… not only is it conceived as an insult, but as if that wasn’t enough already the big reason why it is so is a practice that I would definitely deem animal abuse.

Hence why I will never call him that or even spell out the title.

Now factor in that Sun Wukong is a major family guy and it gets even worse with the history behind the title essentially being his kin getting enslaved and mistreated. I don’t think he actually knows this though. I’m just saying the Havoc in Heaven could have happened early.

And for what reason did they do that? He was very nice to the Gold Star inviting him to a banquet right away and at court once he did find out that he should pay respect he did bow.

Later this gets contrasted with the Monkey King appointing the one-horned Demon Kings proper positions. He is arguably displaying how he does a better job being a ruler than the Jade Emperor in this case.

Something to lighten the mood again after this lengthy rant, Sun Wukong sharing the wine after he’s officially given the title of Great Sage Equalling Heaven! He’s such a sweet guy! When he’s treated well.

With how often they mention everyone not daring to get in his way, yet he is still said to “fight his way out” I don’t think he is actually doing much more than waving his weapon around in threat if anything. It definitely can’t be actual fighting since nobody dares to engage in combat with him to begin with.

The German translation is coming in with some interesting trivia once again! The red and yellow robe as it is called in the Anthony C. Yu translation that Sun Wukong gets from the one-horned Demon Kings is actually more of an ochre yellow robe [褐黄袍 hèhuáng páo] or the colour of an Ancient Chinese emperor’s robe! This is also confirmed in the Audio Drama.

[sketching-shark]

I see I came a little late with the first meeting of the chapter one of jttw in the new group. But I'm still not so sure how it works, I thought it would be like you send a link to the people that wanted to join and then they're members of the grupal blog, so they can post their art/memes and stuff without having to reblog it but making it directly, it doesnt work like that?

Also another question the first meeting is by joining a streaming to read the chapter or something? Or is individual?

Sorry for all the questions <\3

No problem at all anon! As it is this is my first time running a reading group and as such I'm bound to make mistakes, so please let me know if I'm making anything more difficult than it has to be or if there's something I could do to make the group more fun/accessible.

But to make what anon's talking about clear, they're referring to @journeythroughjourneytothewest, a reading group I'm running in which we're making our way through Journey to the West, one chapter per week. The general "rules" that I put for the group is that anyone is welcome to join, but that the official "meeting" is on Sunday, which is the day I encourage members to finish reading that week's chapter and to submit/finish their art, reactions, analysis, memes, etc. based on their reading experience. What I'm also asking people to do is to either submit these things to the reading group directly, or to @ the group's name in the description of their work so that I'm alerted to its existence and can reblog it. I guess if anything you can consider @journeythroughjourneytothewest to be something of an archive of people's reading reactions! While that is the current way it works, feel free to let me know if there's a better way to do it. I guess the main thing is I hope people find the current submission/reblogging policy an easy way to make sure their work is seen by others, and to either have it be submitted from their personal blogs so that it's in at least two places, or just have it be submitted to the group directly, whichever they prefer. I also hope that people find it a reasonable policy for me as the reading group's moderator, as while all submissions have been lovely so far I want to make sure there's nothing hateful (I can also put up a more general guideline for submissions if "hateful" is too vague).

As everyone has their own busy lives and schedules, there is no streaming to read the chapter, and it is left up to people's own prerogative to finish the chapter for that week and to submit their own work. A link to PDFs of the translation we're reading, along with the reading schedule itself, can be found on the reading group's pinned post.

I did make a post about the existence of this reading group that tagged people who showed interest when I first proposed it, but I didn't send out a reminder to those people for the first week...do you think that a weekly reminder to all members and people who showed interest in the group, along with a link to the reading group itself, would be something people would appreciate? I can see the appeal, but I also don't want to be annoying about it lol.

I hope that answers all your questions anon! But again, don't hesitate to let me know if you're still confused or feel like something could be done better. I can also reblog this to @journeythroughjourneytothewest itself if this explanation of this groups very general guidelines would be helpful.

[antidotefortheawkward-art]

Thinking about that Zhihu AU where Tang Seng's disciples were Erlang Shen, Sun Wukong, and Bull Demon King instead.....

[ID: 1. An illustration of Erlang Shen, Sun Wukong, and Bull Demon King from the waist-up. Erlang Shen is wearing a weimao and a purple yuanlingpao archer-style with the left lapel flipped out. His two inner robe layers are checkered blue and purple-ish off-white. He has a snow leopard pelt at his waist. Sun Wukong is in his typical pilgrimage outfit, chewing on a piece of willow with his arms crossed. Bull Demon King has his arm around SWK's shoulder, leaning against him. He has a leopard pelt across his chest and a dark red scarf around his shoulders, with a red banbi and off-white inner robe. His other hand is on his mixed-iron rod, which is placed on his shoulder. 2. A translated screenshot from the aforementioned Zhihu thread. It reads "西天路走的太顺利畅，我反而无聊 This path to the Western Heaven is too smooth. I'm actually bored." End ID]

[sinhasfluffyheadfur]

oc references I made for my artfight!! rubbing my hands together evilly

[a-tea-goblin]

about the Monkeys being monkeys

this is a super nitpicky thing but bare with me, but please remember that not all primates are the same. Monkeys and apes are not the same thing. they are in fact both primates, but they are still different animals and aren't interchangeable

rule of thumb; Monkeys have tails, apes don't.

Monkey King/Macaque/MK are macaques, different species of monkeys. The correct terminology for them are monkey, simian, or even primate if you want to be broad.

apes/chimps would be like orangutans or chimpanzees.

this is why in the jttw the four spiritual/celestial primates are grouped together as primates and not as either monkeys or apes definitively, because 3/4 of them are monkeys (stone monkey/macaque/baboon) and 1/4 is an ape (gibbon), meaning that both are present so a broader term is needed when referring to the four as a whole.

this is mainly something I noticed when reading LMK fanfics, where authors will sometimes call the MK/SWK/6EM chimps or apes as descriptors. I can understand having other characters calling them by the wrong species if its out of ignorance or even as a direct insult, but it should also be acknowledged that if a character does this then said character is factually incorrect.

part of the confusion in authors may have come from the fact that some characters in LMK have called them the wrong thing, an example off the top of my head is Huntsman calling MK a chimp in 02x03. this might have been a mistake on the writers part, but it also may have been a way of showing that Huntsman doesn't know the difference.

[kitofawriter]

Hey Lego Monkie Kid fandom I think you might be interested in this thing: @jttwaudiodrama

Have you ever wanted to experience Journey to the West but you don’t like any currently available English translation? Or maybe your attention span doesn’t like reading books that are that long? Or maybe you don’t get all the cultural references and want them explained so you can fully understand what’s going on?

Well now’s your chance!

It’s a group of people dedicated to translating JTTW as accurately as possible while providing a really nice audio version! And if you become a patron (a very worth it deal if you ask me) you get access to their production notes which discuss the translation choices they made and the cultural significance of characters/places/themes and so much more!

I want to be clear I’m not affiliated with them in any way but I really like this podcast and want to spread the word about it! I’ve been a fan of JTTW for a long time now but have never found a translation I liked or that provided the context I needed to fully enjoy the story until I found The Fifth Monky version. I’m aiming this specifically at the LMK fandom because I’ve been watching it for the first time and getting the references to the original story has been a blast that I basically owe to this podcast!

TLDR: there’s a really cool new translation of JTTW currently being produced in podcast form from The Fifth Monkey.

[journeytothewestresearch]

Sizes of the JTTW Pilgrims

Someone posted the following picture to a Monkey King-related Facebook group that I belong to. The bottom part reads:

"The original novel describes Bajie's body as being one zhang tall. Three Chinese feet is 1 meter. One zhang is around 3.3 meters. Sha Monk is 1.2 zhang, which is close to 4 meters. The Tang monk is 1.8 meters. The Great Sage Lord is 4 Chinese feet, or approximately 1.3 meters."

Edit: I've written an article about the picture.

[baxndaid]

1999/lmk sun wukong x reader

𝐧𝐨𝐭𝐞𝐬 ! tbh this can be read as both 1999 or lmk OR literally anything else since this is taking place during the jttw !! SORRY FOR LONG ABSENCE </3

- you were a witch that was ordered to aid the pilgrim named Tripitaka on his quest to find the ancient scriptures

- you didn’t really know he’d have company though, even with your powers you could’ve never predicted that he’d be travelling with a monkey, a pig, and a sea wizard (not to mention their dragon horse)

- at first it was pretty rocky considering that when you revealed yourself to the group, the monkey (who was conveniently named monkey) attacked you with no hesitation

- in battle, you tried to show him the letter you received from the goddess Guan Yin, but it fell on deaf ears and he continued his attacks while calling you a liar

- he stopped as soon as the monk ordered for him to halt, with a bit of encouragement from the headband of course 😋

- you both floated down to your master

- you bowed and introduced yourself as y/n, and the group introduced themselves to you too

- pigsy took a liking to you (obviously)

- monkey did not

- sandy was neutral

- tripitaka was just glad he had another semi-sane individual in his group

- and so, you and your new companions continued with your journey to the west

- ANYWAY that brings you to where you are now 🗣️🗣️

the journey

♡ wukong didnt trust you much, even after a few months of traveling together

♡ he would allow you to do the same things he and his fellow companions did of course, but he would never let you stay and watch his master alone

♡ you did notice, but you didnt care, babysitting the monk wasnt exactly something you were dying to do as much as you respected him

♡ he did appreciate you for your skills, though

♡ Tripitaka managed to get kidnapped 4 times a week instead of 9 with you around 🥳

♡ for that, he warmed up to you

♡ just a smidge tho💔💔

♡ during the whole white bone demon/crimson witch saga; you defended monkey from the accusations of him killing a not so innocent young women

♡ you didnt feel as if he had a reason to lie, and even if you definitely werent his favourite person of the group, you still didnt want him to get punished for something that he did to protect his friends

♡ didnt work tho LMFAOO 😩

♡ he was soon banished from the group and went back to his home in flower fruit mountain in a sour mood

♡ you kinda felt bad but you kinda liked it like lmfaoo deserved 💔💔

♡ after the young monk got in trouble again, it was up to you to find monkey and get him to help you again

♡ you still don’t know why the hell pigsy made you do it, you just assumed he was being lazy and just wanted you to do all the heavy lifting

♡ you’d bully him later for compensation

♡ but for now your goal was to find monkey which was surprisingly easy considering his island was supposed to be incredibly difficult to find

♡ your task was easy, go to the island, get wukong, and come back

♡ it wasn’t easy 💯

♡ you ended up getting ambushed by a bunch of monkeys which you couldn’t take seriously since they were just so cute!

♡ they beat your ass

♡ they brought you to a stone throne with your ex-companion sitting on top of it, a dismissive look on his face and his head leaning on his hand

♡ they pushed you on your knees as the monkey king began to speak

♡ “state your name and your business here”

♡ “oh be quiet, unless you hit your head i expect you to remember me, it’s been like 2 days you dramatic ape”

♡ immediately you regret insulting him as his subjects hold you tighter and audibly chitter and gasp at your words

♡ you grunt “fine, i’m here to take you back to Tripitaka, he’s… in a tight spot” you look up at him to see his expression

♡ “why should i help him? he threw me away without a second thought!”

♡ you groaned, he had the right to be angry but you just wanted to get this over with, so you negotiated with him for a while

♡ a very long while

♡ he sighed, “fine” he got up from his throne “monkey subjects! your king is going on an important mission, you’ll have to do without me for a while” he said dramatically

♡ you playfully rolled his eyes as you watched him comfort the female monkeys, them clearly not wanting him to leave so soon

♡ after like 20 minutes you got bored, you took his hand and led him to your master, you were surprised he let you hold him for so long, he normally shoves pigsy off whenever he flings his arms around him after battle

♡ the rest of your friends rejoiced when they saw a certain monkey flying behind you, hand in hand

♡ pigsy had questions about why the two of you came back with hands intertwined and his mind immediately went straight into the gutter, and naturally, he got jealous

♡ he refused to talk to monkey for a week because of his assumption 😞

lego monkie kid masterlist

[localapparently]

i love kimcom so much.. i love them so much..

theyre so..!! honestly if i think about them too much i'll cry.. and I'm rereading a few bits of dark castle to compare the novel and the webtoon and gosh, sleepyc and team's art really allows kimcoms interactions to feel more alive and goofy, silly even,,

epilogue spoilers ahead near the end

and novel's narration are like the gaps to fill in, both sides elevate the story,, i sound like a food critic but like. oh my goodness you read the part where kdj reunites with sys in dark castle after his revival and youre so taken by how sweet and cute it is. and then you read novel and..!!

I wouldn't have been able to run straight here if it wasn't for this feeling. I saw Shin Yoosung crying and thought that parents probably felt like this.

GOODBYEEEE I AM SO DEADDDD LIKE OH MY GOD YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME???

and webtoon chooses to let kdj maintain the same composure he had when he talked to jihye after saving her just moments prior,, and it works because now i read his inner thoughts in novel and I FEEL SO INSANE?!?!?! YOU BITCHHH SAY IT SAY YOU MISS HER?? no wait .. im getting off topic. this is becoming a kdj sys ramble

Honestly even though i call them found family I don't really classify them as a family either, they feel more like a home? at least at the first half of the story.. In an apocalypse where everything feels uncertain and you've lost all your close friends, you'd end up wandering aimlessly, so sticking to a group is moreso a temporary means of survival than friendship of any sort. It's also why kdj is so essential to kimcom as their glue, as the person who gathered them together, he provided them with that temporary party. and having that 'constant' you can return and realign to in that setting is so.. augh...

not to mention that three of the kimcom members are kids and kdj is their form of stability. lgy and sys hug him whenever they see him because he's the first adult that had ever shown them care. jihye is probably shaken from the first scenario but while she clings to yjh and admires him as her master, he probably doesnt do enough to reciprocate her respect or communicate as enthusiastically. now that i think about it, jihye feels kind of lonely, not young enough to get along with the kids particularly closely and not old enough to be buddies with the adults. does she make up for it by being talkative?)

And at this point in the story its evident that theyre not even that close !! singshong's writing style isnt one that elaborates on emotions and descriptive fluff to begin with, but sys is stated to not be so fond of jihye in ch162 because jihye was rude to kdj, they still feel like theyre in their own cliques. sys and lgy stick together as kids of similar ages, jhw and lhs get along normally, hsy is. hsy. lhs for one narrates kimcom as his 'companions' quite early on, but i'm unsure whether that choice is becuase thats just a suitable word for people closer than 'allies' but not close enough to be 'friends'. ultimately its just a buncha people who are trying to survive, and care about the guy that brought them tgt. it doesnt really feel like anything more than that.

and then as you're caught up in kdj's shenanigans, small snippets pass by and they feel a bit warmer yk. like sys and lgy having a coin flip whenever they're uneasy. (sys states that lgy has "done this before", like he's the one that has suggested the past coin flip(s). it feels like its implying that hes initiated this game system just to cheer up sys because shes a lot more transparent about feeling sad that kdj isnt there.) sooyoung of all people, willing to get an outer god contract to save sangah. jihye, hyunsung and seolhwa chilling in the room during proof of stars, and hyunsung was picking his nose like are you fr they are so unserious,.

in jttw arc ch 433, yoosung growing close enough to joonghyuk to not get intimidated by him and (forcefully (forcefully is a strong word but she straight up just puts it on his cheek unprompted and that is so funny of her)) apply seolhwa's ointment, even giggling when he allows her to do it after she brings up doctors orders.

after proof of stars, theres a portion that goes

The party members supported each other. (...) I saw the white lines connecting the empty universe. The stars, that seemed like they would never meet each other, were facing each other.

please know this: i wanted to cry and scream so bad. ive started to spell out kimcoms names rather than address them in their shortforms, that writing inconsistency is how emotional i am right now.

I can't do the justice of listing down every instance where they've grown a little closer, but i'm hoping to remember more on my second reread.

because orv is such a long novel, the way they gradually grow closer also feels realistic.. and by the time you're in the ch400s, its so clear that they wouldn't go anywhere else without each other.. if i start talking about vacation arc i'll just start sitting and staring at a wall again.

"you're explaining how an average found family trope is realised" Youre right!!! youre right!!,, me when the found family is actually found family.. don't shame me like this.. i'm just an emotional person..

Ah and then you get moments where their unity really shines, and they become god pummeling probability festering forces of nature... and its when one guy's life is in jeopardy. even when they weren't all that close yet, its when they save kdj where they feel most strong. and its a bit obvious because its like, common goal makes people group together yknow, but god the adrenaline and relief when they appeared in demon king selection.. the way their names pop up one after another when they vote for jung heewon's skill..

and 1865 !! 1865 was really the epitome of it all!! oh my god they were all so reluctant to return to the hell of the scenarios but they dragged themselves back because of one fucking guy that they loved too much. and i'm rereading 1865 a bit as i write this but the way they all yelled at their sponsors to pick them is so so funny and the whole speedrunning thing really shows their desperation to quickly find him but also feels a bit fun and even exhilirating with how theyd already beaten the game once, and they were going to storm through the whole thing again to reach kim dokja. like a fuckin earthquake. the lines in ch 536

They had to be insane. (...) These people who lost their minds were clearing the scenarios with insane methods.

YEAHHH THATS MY FUCKING KIMCOM WOOOH OH MY GODD THEYRE SO INSANE!!!!

kimcom's bond was strengthened because of their love for kim dokja, kimcom drifted so close because of how much they wanted to save kim dokja. whenever i think about the 'found family' trope between kimcom, it exists because they love kim dokja, and once again i'm reminded of how much that bastard is loved and how he denies that he is anything else but a reader outside the covers of the story.

It's not to say that all of kimcom's bonds were because of him, but it's clear that had it not been for him, they would have dissipated so much quicker.

agh. what was i talking about again..

genuinely i dont know if ive proven anything through this. i just had to talk about it. i havent even talked about the relationship between kdj and each kimcom member but then the post wouldnt end. sys's section would be thousands of words and i would even have a portion for gong pildu and jang hayoung..

i love kimcom. thats it thats the post.

[journeythroughjourneytothewest]

[ryin-silverfish]

Chapter 27-28: Spooky Scary Skellington

(Finally getting back to the book club after a few busy months...)

Chapter 27:

-The White Bone Spirit is one of the most iconic demoness of JTTW, and, as JTTW Research's post on her origin suggests, is likely inspired by the White Tiger Spirit + the giant skeleton nearby in 大唐三藏取经诗话.

-However, when Tripitaka asked about the origin of said giant skeleton at the bottom of a fiery pit, the Monkey Pilgrim gave the strange answer that "This is the place where the Heir Apparent, Ming Huang, changed his bones."(此是明皇太子换骨之处)

-What does that even mean?

-Well, at first, I thought it was just referring to "Corpse Release"(尸解), where Daoists attain immortality by leaving behind a fake corpse——usually a transformed object such as cane, clothes or shoes——to literally trick death.

-Then I finally got to read "Birth of JTTW"(西游记的诞生) by Cai Tieying, in which he traces the "changing of bones" to a legend in the Song dynasty record, 默记.

-Summary: an assassin was sent to kill Tang Minghuang (after he basically abdicated due to the An Shi Rebellion), hit him with a hammer in his sleep, and the hammer just bounced off his head with a clang.

-Minghuang woke up and was like "Yep, I've been expecting this"; ever since he had consumed jade and a golden elixir of immortality under the advice of the famous Daoist Ye Fashan, his bones were transformed into literal jade.

-So if the assassin wanted to kill him for good, he gotta split open Minghuang's skull and take out the elixir——an advice the assassin promptly followed.

-That peculiar little trivia aside, there is a theory about SWK's ability to see through demonic disguises in the Chinese JTTW booksphere, which might explain why Tripitaka never seems to trust him on that regard.

-Unlike in TV adaptations, the "Fiery Eyes and Golden Vision" doesn't work like an X-Ray; rather, it's more like an infrared thermal camera.

-This means SWK can't literally see through a demon or immortal's disguise and perceive their true form, just the general "aura" around them in the form of demonic or auspicious Qi.

-Thus, when this aura is hidden by ambience Qi, altered to fit one's general appearance or less on-the-nose(as later chapters would show), SWK's magical vision also takes a dive in accuracy.

-Furthermore, prior to WBS, none of the demons they encountered had used a human disguise in order to capture Tripitaka.

-So even if SWK said "Hey master, I can totally see through demonic disguises" after he killed the demoness(which he didn't), without precedents, it's gonna sound like he pulled the ability right out of his ass, as a shoddy excuse to justify murdering humans——something Tripitaka did witness before.

Chapter 28:

-Fun fact: during the Qing dynasty, there's a big-budget opera adaptation of JTTW called 升平宝筏, exclusively performed in the royal palace. In this version, the White Bone Spirit and Yellow-robed Demon are actually sworn siblings!

-After Yellow-robed Demon kidnapped the princess, she was the one who helped talk her into accepting the marriage. So when she was killed by SWK, Yellow-robed Demon was furious, and, as revenge, kidnapped Tripitaka + turned him into a tiger later.

-Combining different arcs, much like adding unnecessary romantic subplots, is actually quite common in Qing opera adaptations of JTTW. This change, however, makes more sense than the others.

-First, it explains the "family" that WBS offhandedly mentioned, secondly, the two arcs are already sequential, so making the two demons related doesn't seem like that far of a stretch.

-The burning of FFM is heartwenchingly described, and arguably where most villainous characterizations of Erlang come from. However, hear me out——I don't think he actually did it.

-At the end of Chapter 6, after Erlang caught SWK, his brothers was like "Enough talk, let's take him to the celestial realm." To which Erlang replied that sorry, they were not recognized as part of the celestial bureaucracy and literally not allowed to meet the Jade Emperor.

"But don't worry, I'll go report to the Jade Emperor together with the devarajas, you six stay behind on FFM to do a thorough search of the mountain(搜山). Once you are done, return to Guankou, and right after I get the rewards, I'm heading straight back to share it with y'all."

-Indeed, in the next chapter, after the Jade Emperor gave him a lot of gifts, he said his thanks and returned to Guanjiangkou, where his temple was at.

-My theory is, Erlang did not lead the burning personally, or give a direct order to——he was still in the Celestial Realm, making reports while FFM burned.

-And his six sworn brothers, being hunters and martial men, interpreted "search the mountain" rather liberally in his absence and left out the details once he returned with their reward.

-Just as usual, another job well done, let's get the victory party started.

-Of course, whether Erlang was personally there, leading the burning, makes little difference to the monkeys of FFM; it wasn't him, but he sure as hell wasn't NOT involved either.

@journeythroughjourneytothewest

[nikofortuna]

JTTW Chapter 13 Thoughts

Chapter 13 for the @journeythroughjourneytothewest Reading Group! Very nature heavy this time!

On the title of the chapter while “detain” works well enough since they do hold up Tang Sanzang for a little bit, I prefer the other translations going with “entertains” for the J.F. Jenner translation and roughly translated “cares for” for the German one.

Tang Sanzang really enjoys making vows doesn’t he. I hope this won’t come back to bite him later.

Since they get mentioned multiple times this chapter and I already figured out that flowers in this story may not be arbitrarily chosen I looked into the Chinese flower language of chrysanthemums! These lovely flowers.

First up chrysanthemums are Autumn flowers, which tracks perfectly here given that it is late Autumn. Additionally they apparently are the flower of the ninth moon aka ninth month which is the month in which Tang Sanzang departed, so that works exceptionally well too! Also they symbolize longevity, which could tie into the story as well.

Oooh, the travel group is technically comprised of four people currently, which is deliberately mentioned! And it is the fourth night watch when they set off this time as well! Now if that isn’t blatant foreshadowing through the meaning of numbers.

I really love those little details with flower meanings and numerology.

When Tang Sanzang “was so frightened that his spirit left him” everyone who watched so much as a single anime probably had a very specific kind of image in their head for this.

I’d like to draw some attention to the depiction of those yaoguai in how they interact with each other and that they actually left the horse alone. It makes me see them as not really malicious as such, they kind of just treat humans how humans would treat animals and given that they are in part animal, well you can guess how that fits together.

Ah yes, they didn’t eat him because of his nature. And literal plot armour.

At this point I would also like to present the illustration in the German translation this chapter. Particularly focusing on Tang Sanzang, who is tied up like a little package! I don’t know it looks kind of funny to me context aside.

Though it’s also interesting because when you imagine someone tied up you tend to do so like in Westerns for example with the rope tied around the arms and chest in a cylindrical manner and not this net-like manner as depicted here.

Tang Sanzang could really just have told Boqin from the start that he doesn’t eat meat. Though to be fair he likely had a lot going through his head at the time.

Lastly with the deer mentioned I would like to show off this neat info graphic I found on different species of deer! Looking at it I noticed how all the deer in the translation are specifically European deer, so those are definitely not the actual kind of deer!

Subsequently I got curious and checked the Chinese original for some deer. First one is [獐] or Chinese Water Deer! That character is translated as Roe in Google translate, when Musk would at least provide a similar look with their teeth, so I’m happy that Anthony C. Yu chose Musk Deer here.

Then we have [麂], which are indeed Muntjac Deer as the Google translate told me! Turns out what isn’t clear in the info graphic is that there are Muntjac in Europe and Asia! So I find it a bit odd that Anthony C. Yu went with Fallow Deer instead. The J.F. Jenner translation goes with the same translation as Google translate gave me by the way.

The herd of deer later are Water Deer again. The dozen deer mentioned seem to just use the general character for deer, though feel free to correct me if the character [鹿] does mean a specific kind of deer after all.

Also if you are curious what kind of deer meat Boqin ate, it’s Water Deer.

[sketching-shark]

Not that long ago I threw out the idea of creating a Journey to the West reading group, and was delighted to see a fair number of people interested in the prospect! So in the effort to see this come to fruition while still taking into account everyone's different schedules, time zones, and busy lives, here's my general proposal for how this will work:

The version of Xiyouji that this reading group will start with will be the Anthony C. Yu English translation, firstly because while long it is the most complete and accurate translation out there, and secondly because thanks to @journeytothewestresearch it is completely free to download and read as pdfs! I'll create a separate blog specifically for this reading group, which will act as something of a hub/archive for people's analysis, art, reactions, memes, criticisms, additions of context, etc. as we make our way through the journey. The schedule that I'm thinking of would be to do one chapter per week, which would be more or less 20 pages per week. This group would "meet" every Sunday, which would be the day participants are encouraged to finish that week's chapter and/or submit their creative/analytical pieces about it. Sunday would also be the day where I'd give a quick recap on that week's chapter, and would mass reblog anything participants submitted to have that work in the archive. This is what I imagine for starters, but if it works out well we could try organizing larger events or even chat rooms.

Thank you to everyone who expressed interest in a JTTW themed reading group! Of course people should feel free to offer any advice, concerns, criticisms, or questions, but if this sounds like a solid plan for a tumblr based book club then I'll get to work on the reading group blog and a pinned post that will detail where people can access the Yu pdfs along with a good summary of the entire journey, and provide something of a tentative reading schedule. So here's hoping this sounds like a good set up, and here's looking forward to getting this journey started!

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[istopaskingmemate]

you know what I find so funny Mr Tang is often considered the "nerd" of the group when he really just hyperfixates over the monkey king's legens and has glasses. he's more like Leo from tmnt 2012 in the way obsesses over who he believes to be a fictional character only in Tang's chance it turns out that that character reveals himself to be a real person.

A nerd by definition "a person seen as overly intellectual, obsessive, introverted, or lacking social skills". you know who fits that description perfectly.

overly intellergent, would defiantly be used to describe the intellergent stone monkey.

obsessive, cue past macaque under the montien "obsessive demon".

introverted, bro has lived on a deserted island with no one but his monkeys for the last 500 years. also had no friends

lacking social skills, communication issues go brrr

he also managed to complete his training under master shaboti which normally takes lifetimes in 20 years. and that includes the time taken teaching him how to read, write, expanding his vocabulary, math, probably some alchemy, and medicine because yes in jttw wukong is a highly competent physician. all that along with spiritual studies, meditation, physical training, immortal training, magic, and spells. all perfected in 20 years.

Don't let wukong's demeanor fool you he is a fucking probody and a closeted nerd.