#laurance discourse

[dilly-dahlia]

hi!!! what happened with Laurance's old VA? sorry i've been out of the loop for a while 😭

thank you!!!

hi!! idk if i’m the most qualified to answer this since i don’t have the most information and it might not be accurate so if anyone else wants to add please do!!

from what i know: a while ago (i’m talking MyStreet season 1/2) Sebastian Todd used clips from Aphmau’s Phoenix Drop High series for a blooper video he posted and it made Jess and Jason upset since he didn’t ask permission so they kind of ghosted him and Laurance wasn’t seen for a while the first time. i think during this time he filmed a live stream where someone asked if he’d ever come back to be Laurance and he said something along the lines of “Jess was a terrible boss and I hated working with her” (not exactly what he said, but a summarized version)

also during this time he was complaining about not getting jobs for voice acting which is kind of looked down upon in that community so i think that’s why people didn’t hire him too?

but anyways, obviously he was rehired because Laurance came back for MyStreet season 3 and MCD Rebirth, but someone (i don’t know who) said that he was just a toxic person and very difficult to work with

I’ve also been told that he had some mental disorders and they all sort of piled up and a couple years ago he had an episode and attacked some of his fans on social media, so…

I’m not sure what he does now but from what I’ve heard he’s changed his name and has assumed a more gaming/work out brand for himself. I’ve also heard he makes adult content now but I’m not 100% sure on that since I haven’t (and don’t want to) looked into that

again i’m not the most qualified person for this and basically everything i just said is word of mouth!! if i’m wrong about something please correct me respectfully and if you know more about Laurance’s original VA please add to this post!

regardless to say I think DJ Hansen (the VA who voiced Laurance in Jessica’s anniversary video) did a phenomenal job and I hope we get to see more of him!!

EDIT: here’s a bit more from the comments!

EDIT 2: here is another post that explains way better than I did and also brings up more recent points I was not aware of so check it out!

[theevilfishywizard]

The complete dismissal of context when people talk about laurance and what happend at the wedding is kinda insane actually because I do not know how you can look at that situation and say "oh it's because laurance cannot handle being jealous." Genuinely did we watch the same show?

He was MIA for 2-3 days with a woman who defiantly does not respect consent, is brought to the werewolves where he learns aphmau is being human trafficked and married off against her will, then is immediately ordered to be executed. Laurance does not know fenrir, he has no way of knowing what kind of person he is, what he might have forced aphmau to do already. He sits in a cell awaiting his execution until the wedding where Aphmau tearfully says she's sorry to him under his breath as she passes. A woman who has only displayed unshaking determination in the face of adversity is meek and crying.

And if that wasn't enough, they skipped 15 years, he found his dead wyverns grave robbed, he learned his only other father figure died in that time and he never got the chance to see him one last time. This sounds like I'm pulling every trama out of my ass to defend him but it's been literally TWENTY fucking episodes since the beginning of the season all of this has happened right next to each other. Everything's fresh. This isn't a display of jelously, this is a breakdown.

I'm genuinely shocked anyone can see it as anything else. This has been built up since he came back from the nether as a shadow knight and refused to discuss anything that happened there. You look me in the eyes, and tell me that if you were in his position and you saw someone you loved being literally TRAFFIKED INTO AN ARRANGED MARRIAGE you wouldn't fight like hell to get them out if that situation.

Edit: Sorry, I know the post above sounds a little heated but I just keep seeing this circulate and needed to throw this into the discussion. I didn't mention it that much above but laurances losing control was absolutely a byproduct of being a shadow knight because I can say with absolutely certainly that were laurance not a shadow knight he would have refrained from killing anyone. (He even does it later with michi. Even though I wish he'd just let aphmau ice her) It's hard to differentiate what personality changes take place because he's a shadow knight vs what is caused by the trama he's experienced but since there's implied to be a sort of bloodlust I'd wager that's the more likely option. He reached a breaking point and lost the self control that was preventing him from basically rampaging. The reason the kiss worked wasn't because laurance "got what he wanted" or whatever it's because the action was so shocking it basically hard reboot his brain and cleared the red fog of violence that was clouding his thinking.

[fruitcakebro]

I don't like the idea of Laurance being immortal. He never finished the ritual. He didn't kill Aphmau, so it seems wrong to make him so.

I mean, we established later in (the series I shan't name) with the relics that to make one life infinite, another must be sacrificed. And Laurance is many things -a lot of them not so great- but he is not willing to sacrifice his loved ones for immortality. He's proved that much.

And just think about it. Think about what a shadowknight transformation entails. He literally got taller and broader. That means his skeleton literally has to break apart and re-assemble, as well as every muscle and inch of skin in his body having to stretch out to accomodate this. That might be aproximately equivalent to having every nerve in your body pulled at once. Not only would that be horrifically painful, but it would almost certainly cause permenant damage. And then it reverts. Meaning that every time he enters an emotional state which would cause a transformation, he has to go through that again.

Meaning he technically has an ace up his sleeve, but it has terrible consequences for using it. Not to mention that immense pain and physical trauma like that tends to create mental adverse effects as well. And he never has the time to stop and address any of it, because when the transformation happens, it's because there are outside circumstances nessesitating it.

So he's just slowly being physically and mentally destroyed by this transformation, because he's using the powers of a Shadowknight, while not in a Shadowknight's body.

Not only does that kinda help to balance a lot of his sorta OP-ness later, I feel like it makes the rebellion in the nether a lot more interesting. If he can die, and all the immortal Shadowknights he's fighting are just spending the whole time wondering how the actual fuck they're losing to this random guy. The primary working theory is that he's just so annoying that reality tries to avoid him.

But like, that might be a better opening to his piss-poor madness arc. Like, in canon his first transformation was the first major symptom of it, but it might be more interesting to examine it as a possible cause.

This thought process is incomplete, and I absolutely welcome discourse on it. I just needed to write it down while I had it.

[xerith-42]

Stop blaming characters for bad writers

Seriously, stop fucking doing this. While this is a post that could certainly be applicable to MANY fandoms, I'm mainly directing this whole rant at my target audience which is mentally ill minecraft obsessed freaks.

If a character is written badly, gets badly fumbled by the creator, or has the ball dropped in regards to their arc in some way, a lot of people will blame the character, as if they're a real conscious person making these decisions. When they aren't. They're a block man literally being controlled by two people who just aren't very good writers and one or both of them are incredibly sexist, kind of racist, ableist, and just bad writers in general.

Yeah, Laurance does some pretty shitty things through out Season 2 of MCD, actively crossing lines he wouldn't have previously crossed. We as fans can cope by saying something something calling, or just saying Laurance is a bad abusive person, but the reality is that the writers wanted to force the series to fit a specific vision and as a result were willing to do anything to get the series to that point. In order to make Aaron the most favorable suitor for Aphmau, her previous suitors need to be out of the picture, or clearly inferior options.

Garroth suffered the out of the picture, being mostly absent outside of a few cutscenes here and there until episode 81 of season 2, but episode 81 is the culmination of the writers goals to make Aarmau happen. By the time Garroth has returned to the series, the damage has already been done. He's not getting the life he wants. And Laurance is written out of the picture as well, but only after being shown to be inferior because Jesson were pushing an agenda.

Laurance didn't deteriorate as a person due to neglect of his physical and mental well being after a severely traumatic experience. He deteriorated as a character because the writers stopped giving as much of a shit about him and instead were using the series as self indulgent fanfiction of alternate versions of themselves. That's not Laurance's fault.

And this applies to any character who was completely fumbled in MyStreet due to this similar focus on wish fulfillment from the writers. Jess has stated that the relationship between Aphmau and Aaron in Phoenix Drop High is reflective of her relationship with Jason, we all know this. This means that any characters who come off as total fucking creeps in that series (namely Gene), are not actually acting on the whims of their own autonomy or desires as characters. They are acting in service of telling a predetermined story that they are retroactively being added into for author fulfillment.

In this regard I fully support fandom cope and say that you should rewrite your little guys to your hearts content. But if you're going to criticize these characters for their actions, don't criticize them. They didn't do anything wrong. All characters are just puppets in service of the story or themes a writer is trying to push. If a character acts in an objectively terrible way, especially a way that isn't in line with their previous characterizations, that is a failing of the writers, not the character.

And I feel like largely a lot of us can and frequently do this. We're actively criticizing Jesson for being terrible low-key bigoted writers all the god damn time, it's like half of the content here. But when we get into character discourse I feel like some people cling onto bad actions of the canon too closely and I've seen more than a few posts presume some pretty terrible interpretations of characters based on these actions. Obviously Laurance is a character I and a lot of others are fixated on so a lot of discourse revolves around him, and it was seeing some... interesting takes on him that prompted me to start writing this post.

But this happens to everyone. Quite personally based on the character I was shown in MyStreet, it feels really weird that Garroth would make an insensitive comment about his brother's weight. Yeah siblings poke fun at each other and often cross lines, but if that was something Zane was seriously insecure about (which it seems like he might be) then it does make Garroth come off as a really insensitive brother, which just doesn't gel with how hard he tries to bond with Zane despite their tense relationship. And I don't think Garroth should be criticized for making those comments.

Whoever wrote those lines (Jess and/or Jason) should be criticized for writing a scene where a character is mocked by their older sibling over a physical insecurity even if said sibling would not normally do that. It's not Travis' fault that Jesson never decided to give him more of a character beyond "funny pervy guy" that's not funny in every anime they've watched until Season 5 of MyStreet. It's unfair to try and say Travis should be scrutinized for his borderline sexual harassment of some characters when it's not his fault that happened, he was written by writers who don't think this sort of behavior isn't all that bad if they make it out for comedy and punch him in the face.

And god dammit it's not Laurance's fault that his jealousy became the most prevalent emotion he felt. Laurance has always been a character to give into his vices and yet fight against them at the same time, it's what makes him compelling. If they were going to pull on those vices in order to make him a less appealing love interest, he never had a chance to really be his own character after a certain point. Because at a certain point in Season 2, Jesson stopped caring about the character they had been writing for over a hundred episodes at that point. They just wanted to canonize their self insert ship and were willing to do anything to get it.

Laurance isn't an abusive angry person who would have killed Aphmau if they got together. He's a flawed character being handled by incredibly flawed writers who are prone to making some of the worst decisions you have ever seen a creator make in regards to their character writing. He was caught in the crossfire of the adoration he received from a very dedicated fanbase, and the creator who would rather pretend he and his previous arc didn't exist for the sake of her fun. It's not Laurance's fault his arc was stilted, jerked around, and ultimately ended with him completely face planting. And yet still reliably dragging his bloodied body up at just the slightest glimmer of hope (Void Paradox).

It's deeply poetic and tragic that I can describe his character in universe and in the meta-textual sense that way, but we should never blame Laurance, or Aaron, or any other characters for things being like this.

They didn't write the show. Jess and Jason did.

[nottoofondofgaypeople]

The Most Important Polycule

The one that started it all. Irena is a poor girl who has run from everywhere she's known. All that she knows about people and how to be one is from watching, and she's usually content to just bounce around wherever she does, until she lands in Phoenix Drop, a village so down on their luck she can't help but want to help them.

She doesn't officially take the lord position for quite some time, but she starts using her strange random skills she learned from drifters and wanderers to help these people. This naturally brings her to Garroth, the former head guard, who's keen on keeping her safe because she's just a very kind person. Garroth quietly thinks she'd make a good lord, but he never wants to push her to that.

Laurance is introduced in almost the exact same way. I mean it. The full head of hair, obnoxiously green eyes, the so called Cassanova of Meteli. The most flagrantly bisexual man. Laurance is the first person to show outright and very direct interest in Irena, which she's never experienced. Most people are very subtle about it, or don't express it at all because she's well. She's kind of weird. And doesn't always get what they're saying. She's actually just autistic and doesn't know how love works because nobody's explained it in a way that makes sense to her. And Laurance doesn't quite get what her vibe is but she's really fucking pretty, and also not afraid to give him a piece of her mind but in a light hearted way.

A lot of Irena's early interactions have her express herself in rather comedic ways, like she's super witty, because most of the people she learned from were bards and con men. She can be off-putting to some, but to Laurance? A girl who he can say romantics to and she'll respond with some cheeky retort that isn't an outright rejection? And she's beautiful and could maybe beat you in a fight?? Irena is the girl of Laurance's dreams.

And Laurance is always a fiercely dedicated person. He's known Irena for three weeks, and yet he'll still go into the pits of hell by her side. Laurance has read so many romantic poems and stories, I imagine that ancient Greek literature still exists in this universe, and he's read the tragedies of men who thought they could walk through hell and back safe and sound. He knows that Orpheus always turns around to see if Eurydice is there, but he's confident that they won't have to do that. He's confident he'll walk out of hell hand in hand with her.

No, what happens to them is worse. We all know the story. In order to save the life of one of his closest friends and the life of one of the most mystifying people he's ever rapidly fallen in love with, Laurance actively and willingly sacrifices himself. Irena returns to Phoenix Drop days later and when she finds Garroth at the guard station, she just collapses into his arms and begins weeping.

He's caught her crying before, but never like this. She's never completely fallen apart. He doesn't even know what happened, and she's too wracked with guilt to say anything at first. She knows how Laurance felt. She doesn't know what love is exactly supposed to be, but she knows what it looks like. She's seen people fall in love by staring at one another from across a fire pit. She could tell on day two that Laurance was falling hard and fast, and she was honestly scared the same might be happening.

Now she can't even bring herself to admit it out loud because he's gone, and in her eyes, it's her fault. Oddly enough, once she's able to admit some of what happened, omitting certain details about the nature of her and Laurance's relationship, Garroth is actually able to empathize with her. He isn't very direct at the time, but he gives her advice on how to use her grief as a motivator. Laurance sacrificed himself for her sake, and he would want her to keep moving forward.

Content Warning (y'all knew this was coming): Torture

What ends up being a brief period of time without Laurance, only about two months or so for the Overworld, is far far longer in the Nether. Laurance was planning on dying a warriors death, but after he suffered a nearly killing blow, he was kept alive, and dragged back to The Shadow King's castle. The Shadow King is only a phantom at this point, a pitiful version of his former self. But conscious enough to give orders, and to allow Gene to do what he wanted with this Shadow Knight. Let him prove himself.

So Laurance gets tortured. A lot. And is forced to become a shadow knight without dying. Which the Shadow King didn't even think was possible?? How tf did he fuckin do that, fuckin wizard. The entire process is unbearably painful, and Laurance's only solace are memories of Irena, some other prisoner he gets to talk to on the other side of the cell wall, and oddly enough, memories of a guard he hadn't seen in... years. At his lowest moments, Laurance wishes he could see Garroth, wonders where he is, what's happening in his life, if he managed to get the head guard position he rightfully deserved in some thriving village.

It's the last persons name he starts crying that finally breaks him. Laurance starts thinking about his family, about everyone he's lost, everyone he's going to lose is he dies here, and everyone he might lose if he somehow makes it out alive. The existence of shadow knights is contradictory by nature, and it's starting to break Laurance down. He starts to lose his sense of self. It's only when he weeps at the memory of a young boy finding a wounded wyvern in the woods that something finally happens.

Within seconds the wall is broken into, Laurance gets grabbed, and he's suddenly flying through the Nether in his best friends mouth. And going through the open rift between realms? One that was forcibly opened with the life essence of an immortal under dire circumstances? Laurance was not pretty when Irena and Garroth found him. He was malnourished, a little too pale, so many scars, his hair was all fucked up, and when they first found him, he just wasn't breathing.

Eventually Zoey is able to get his condition stable, but Irena refuses to leave his side until he wakes up. Laurance is out for a few days, and she's dedicated to being there when he wakes up. He has to. If he dies, then both his death and Ungrith's are her fault, and she can't let it end like that. He has to wake up. He has to.

When Laurance finally wakes up, he only notices he's blind because he can hear Irena's voice but can't see her face. But he can feel her hand in his. She's alive. His sacrifice wasn't meaningless because she's still alive. This is the point that we really get the ball rolling, and the point that I take the canon story out to the back alley to be violently beaten to death.

When Laurance desperately confesses his love to Irena, she remains quiet. She listens, and only when his breathing starts to even and the panic has subsided a little does she simply mutter the words "I missed you too Laurance."

"Would you say you loved me?" She has to think for a minute. Lots of people have tried to quantify love to her, explain how it feels or what it looks like, and despite best attempts, Irena still struggled with the concept. But when she sees Laurance's beaten form nearly crying, iron grip on her hand, and the weariest smile on his face, she sort of just gets it. Like it's the most obvious thing in the world that she loved him from the first back and forth they had while walking to Castor's house. Suddenly she can see the appeal of spending all her time around another person.

"I suppose I do."

As for Garroth falling for Laurance, I've covered this on my main blog twice before so I'll simplify it here. Laurance has repeated nightmares/night terror related to his experience in the Nether, and when Garroth is comforting him after one, he realizes this fool of a guard he met in the academy all that time ago is still taking up so much space in his mind.

He realizes it's love, and starts freaking the fuck out because Garroth?? Loves two people?? And one of them is a man???? What the fuck is going on??? Unlike my previous musings, there's a lot more time dedicated to this. Laurance's recovery is slow, and while Zane does interrupt this time, when he's gone there's even more time for Garroth, Irena, and Laurance to all just sit with these emotions.

(Trust me I have a lot to say about how I'm handling Zane and what he does to the story in this rewrite, but that is an essays worth of a post unto itself)

Maybe talk about them with their loved ones. Obviously Garroth doesn't talk to anybody at first, but Irena might go to Zoey. Tell her how she's feeling and Zoey has a faint ache in her heart because she still can't bring herself to admit she feels that way about Irena. Laurance talks to Cadenza about how happy Irena makes him, and how much he wants to share that with Garroth. She nearly whacks him over the head and tells him to just fess up to them already, stop talking to her about it when he clearly understands how he feels. Laurance always does, he's just got a lot of room for improvement in communicating it.

And one day when they all manage to have a day off, Laurance sits the two of them down at the docks and the three of them just talk. He spills his guts to them, tries not to be too emotional about it, fails miserably, and they just sort it all out. No need to hold it in, no need for Irena to deny them this time, and even if Garroth faintly thinks this is a waste of time at the start, when Laurance very directly says that he's in love with Garroth, that opinion very quickly changes.

Irena freely admits she doesn't have a lot of experience with love or relationships, but she knows that she feels love for both of them, and she'd like to try something. Even if it's quiet. Even if they have to hide it so Zane doesn't try to use it against them. She wants to try. And well, Garroth really can't say no to them. He's still faintly terrified of being emotional and vulnerable with people, even though he's already been this way with both of them. He's still so paranoid it'll get them hurt.

But he'll learn to let down his guard for them. They're worth it.

[emoboybrony]

Thanks for the thorough response! (Honestly i wasnt expecting people to even read my long ass post) i love healthy fandom discourse and long debates over different interpretations. I find enjoyment from media by dissecting it and figuring out what makes it tick and you cant really do that without multiple views and interpretations.

I will admit my language in the orginal post was very over the top and purposeful shit posty in nature. Even if i did mean and still agree what i wrote i still could of put it alot more thoughtfully. So let me clarify i do see laurence as a character deserving of empathy. I think reducing him to a literal irredeemable monster is just as reductive as reducing him to a poor little baby who can do no wrong. Both make his character just inheritly unintresting to me.

But i will argue a couple of your points.

1. Aphmau "leading him on" doesnt really work as an argument because even if she made the first move, context clues are a thing. There is a point where, if we are to see laurence as an emotionally intelligent character, he needs to get the hint that they are not in the space to engage this way. Not only that, but a lack of concrete boundaries doesnt make his constant testing of them understandble to me, its a classic issue of "you need a yes, not just a lack of a no". Its inherently irresponsible to keep pushing without at least checking that it is accetable first.

(Also, side note because my friends just pointed this out to me, aphmau only kissed laurence because he was going on a murder spree and was trying to snap him out of it. That adds a whole new context to that scene which i will circle back to)

2. I have my own read and opinions of MCD Aarmau (made a whole spotify playlist about it with my friends) but in a nutshell, i dont view it as explicitly romantic. I read it as a senario where aphmau was so isolated from everything happening, and aaron (as a former lord) was the only one around who could truly relate and give advice about what she was going through. This could be seen as a happy ending or "better", if it werent for the fact that aaron proceeds to explode before they could really work through what was actually between them. Ignoring that this guy who she clearly had an intimate and trusting relationship with, a relationship she will now never get closure on. Leaving her with two children who will now be without a father. Not only that, but aaron kind of accidentally leaves her with a complex, how whole letter basically advises her to put her people first no matter what, which isnt great when shes clearly struggling under the weight of it all.

3. While it is easy to empathise and understand why laurence would feel hurt at the people he loves treating him like hes dangerous, its kinda hard to blame them when they are objectivly correct. Even if you want to argue its a self fulfilling prophesy, he is the one doing the fulfilling. It doesnt really matter how much of a bad time someones going through, as soon as you start punching walls its an act of abuse. You cant really blame people for treating it that way.

4. This is where it gets real tricky im gonna be honest. But it is an undeniable fact that, regardless of the context and explanations provided by the canon, the information is being delivered to an audience that lives in reality. A reality where patriarchy is a thing, and misogyny is a thing. Where people attempt to justify mens abuse and murder of women. "He had trauma" "she lead him on" "male loneliness epidemic" these are things that exsist in our real lives and are going to inform how we consume fiction. It is also going to have an effect on how artists write their fiction, intentionally or not. It is very hard for me to see these reasons and explanations for laurence's charcter and not immediately make connections to my real world experiences as an afab person perceived as a woman. Take the werewolf wedding, you could see that as aphmau blurring the lines sure, but you could also see it as a woman being in the cross fire of a mans violent outburst and having to choose between her bodily autonomy or her personal saftey. In my opinion, there is no way to seperate laurence's actions (or garroth's tbh) association with real world violence against women, because that is the context this fiction resides in. There is no way to not plainly see the correlation without employing some truly staggering cognitive dissonance or just pure distilled ignorance. In this way i could be biased, but imo its would irresponsible of me not make a mental note of it. (No accusations from me against anyone, dont get it twisted. This is more my personal philosophy when it comes to media consumption, not a standard i hold other people to)

Again thanks for responding! I honestly found your input really intresting to read. To add a lil note to point 2, i actually think your persective of aphmau withholding closure to her and laurence's realtionship (although i dont really agree) does add a fun tragic irony to the idea that aphmau never got closure on her attempt at a relationship. Ill definitely be putting that in my back pocket for future fics.

Ill admit ive never been that into laurence (any his variations really) but something has been really bothering me since rewatching parts of MCD.

What really caught my attention about MCD Laurence is that he starts out as this well adjusted, loyal knightly and charming guy- and then after he becomes a shadow knight you just see this slow decay of him. Like hes slowly losing parts of himself and its causing him to become more and more unstable to the point where by the end of season 2 hes honestly kind of terrfying.

And ALOT of that is reflected with how his relationship with aphmau starts to shift. He goes from this sweet, suave and honestly pretty silly personality, to being so obsessive and vindictive towards her.

Theres this one scene, at the end of ep 95 S2, where aphmau has just essentially seen a ghostly image of aaron and is really shaken up by it. Laurence comes to sit with her and ask her about it. And at first, it genuinely seems like hes just trying to get her to open up so he can support her. But then it quickly spirals into him demanding to know why she cares about aaron so much and why shes greiving so hard for him, like its a problem. He becomes so aggressive and condensending to the point where Garroth has to intervene and he walks off.

In this moment you see how far hes really fallen, he goes from semingly reasuring and gentle, and by the end of it hes disrepecting a dead man, who gave his life to save both his brother and supposed love of his life, who he travelled and fought along side with for months, who close to the end of his life was taking care of an orphan (something he comlimented in aphmau), and hes thowing all of that out the window because hes taken Aphmau's attention, due to the fact he fucking died.

After that happens, aphmau has a conversation woth vlyad where he basically tells her that laurence has to accept what he is and go to the nether or else hes gonna go insane, and that the only reason he came back is because hes "chasing a fantasy". Aphmau responds by suggesting they get cadenza over so that he can be with family, and vlyad says she can do what she wants but implies its pretty much inevitable that laurence is going to hit a breaking point. And hes completely right.

Before laurence even gets to speak to cadenza, he eavesdrops on the conversation where aphamu reveals shes pregnant, and just immediately peaces out, out of fear that hes going to MURDER HER.

Not to mention that in that conversation, cadenza herself tells aphmau not to tell laurence because shes scared of how he would react. He has gotten so unstable that his own sister, who loves him more than anything, can recognise that he is a danger to some degree and shes RIGHT.

All this paints a stark contrast, the laurence we first met vs the man he has now become. Its tragic because its this inevitable downfall brought on by an act that was completely selfless, him sacrificing himself that got him turned into a shadow knight in the first place.

Even this is eventually tainted, his selfless act becomes a selfish one as he seems to cling to aphmau's love and affection as an emotional crutch. Aphmau obviously loves and cares for him deeply, but not in an explicitly romantic/sexual way. And if she doesnt love him the way he wants, then why is he suffering through this? Why did he bother to sacrafice himself at all if theres no reward? Its honestly horrifying how pretty much everyone who loved and respected him, makes what should be incredibly out of place predictions on him, but they always end up being right except for aphmau. She cant accept that hes changing and theres nothing she or anyone else can do change that. Its gut wrenching.

This all lead me to beileve that i didnt give enough credit to his character. I love this. This is the type off tragic story telling im here for. Theres so much more to this character than i ever expected.

Heres the thing.

Why the fuck do laurence's biggest fans seem to just completely disregard this? If you believed a good portion of the fandom, laurence is just this sauve uwu sad boy who was unfairly rejected and ignored by a woman who demamded the world from him.

Im dead serious, i saw people saying that laurence "deserved better than aphmau", that he deserved someone who recognised the sacrafice he made. Which like- there is so much to unpack there.

First of all, aphmau did recognise his sacrafice, she did love him and try to support him in the best way she could, even when literally everyone around her was saying it was a lost cause. She did everything she could for that man and forgave so much of what he did while struggling with the calling and she got nothing but shit for it.

Second of all, no the fuck he doesnt?? As illustrated in the examples above he did not respect Aphmau's boundaries. He did not respect her feelings. And by the end, he didnt even respect her bodily autonomy. Lets be honest here, he basically abandoned everyone he apprantly "loved", because bro tapped it before he could. She loved him so much, but because he wanted something she wasnt willing or able to provide, that being explicitly romantic and sexual attention, he just didnt see it. To try and argue that hes the real victim here, is in the same vain of "nice guys finish last". Him being kind, compassionate and selfless- shouldnt be reliant on whether or not this woman will fuck him or not. That is an insanely misogynistic way of thinking.

But most important to me in the context of this analysis- what is there to like about laurence with this interpretation? What possibly sets him apart from the gazillion other brunette pretty anime bois? Am i to gay for this? Is there something im not seeing?

I understand fanon can wildly divert from canon, and i understand that alot of this is probably down to the fact that i find dissecting and critiquing canon more intresting than reinventing it through fanon. Im locked into the Baldurs gate 3 fandom and i had the same experience there (laurence fangirls got NOTHING on Astarion girlies). But both experiences have left me with the same question- what draws you to a character, when all you do is boil them down to their most generic aspects?

I find Laurence intresting cause we are seeing this man crash out and become a monster in real time. And i dont see how he is worth even an honourable mention, when you take that away.

What is there left to be compelled to?

[sweetiepotatofry]

We wouldn't have Laurance vs Laurence discourse if we simply use this funky letter from old english: Laurænce.

[aphverse-confessions]

The fandom loves to take Levin and Malachi from Aph and give them to other characters (usually Garroth and Laurance) in their rewrites, and it makes me uncomfortable.

It reminds me of early Owl House discourse where people were convinced Camila was an abusive mom and wanted Eda to adopt Luz. That was tied up in a lot of white favoritism, and I feel similar vibes with Aph. Can we just let one of the only canon poc characters keep her children please?

Like I get it, it’s clear from the original series that the kids are close with Garroth and Laurance, but that doesn’t mean they need to actually literally adopt them, because reminder they already have two moms! That’s regardless of if you ship Zoeymau or not, because it’s clear in the original series that they see both Aph and Zoey as parental figures. Focusing on their lack of father figures honesty feels sexist to me. Aph and Zoey are doing fine raising Levin and Malachi during season 1, they don’t need any help.

[jurygarroth]

types of Tumblr blogs I think MCD characters would have

garroth - probably wouldn't actually use it that much, got sucked into it by his friends. the only things he's reblogged are some of the generic stuff you get at the start and maybe a few of his friends posts. but he'd make a single good post venting his frustration about something and one of his friends with a bigger blog will reblog it and it'll get 10k notes.

aphmau - cute animals, fandom art, and a concerning amount of misinformation/net zero info posts totally unironically. also probably posts untagged x reader fanfic.

laurance - guy with lots of popular, incomprehensible shitposts but also a fair amount of solid, thought out discourse posts. some multifandom stuff maybe. very much a Tumblr veteran personal blog where be just does whatever.

zane - honestly don't know but he'd tell people to kill themselves on anon. maybe an aesthetic blog or a studyblr where he talks about history or the occult or smth.

katelyn - i think she'd reblog a lot of good informational stuff on current events, self defense, etc. very sober if a bit opinionated. but there's also a non zero chance she has a secret sideblog dedicated to thirsting/writing rpf about real life hockey players or smth.

travis - i think he'd have like 50 sideblogs/is a url hoarder. has gimmick blog where he does some shit like counting the asterisks in your posts.

this is perfectly accurate I have no comments. if it’s fully MCD I think Zane would seriously run a religious blog and post about Irene scriptures and how everyone else is going to hell, and then get cancelled for luring people into his cult and scamming people for donations supposedly going to charity. and also human remains in his basement

[theevilfishywizard]

"Laurance and garroth deserved better than aphmau." "i can't believe aphmau did this after laurance/garroth did this." "Garroth/laurance did this for her and then aphmau still turned around and fucked aaron" Hey, so, aphmau did nothing wrong. Aphmau didn't owe anyone anything. Just because someone did something for her does not mean she has any obligation to them. I'm so serious if you guys are throwing around this rhetoric, it's misogyny. aphmau is a person, not a prize, and she didn't owe anyone a relationship. She didn't lead anyone on. Nobody was entitled to anything from her.

[alvie-pines]

So... I've heard people trying to explain what Sebastian Todd has done that got Laurance basically booted from MCD S3 and MyStreet, but I havent seen any evidence for him doing anything wrong. Am I missing things or are fandom discoursers just yapping again lolol

[ferris-wheelsandcertainblues]

[walks into the server] I would like to start discourse about Laurances ass

[nottoofondofgaypeople]

gimme the juice gimme ur ideas like what r things u really wanna get across in the rewrite

I think the main thing I want to get from this rewrite are long scenes of characters talking about their feelings. It's why this thing is going to be even more canon divergent than I'm used to writing. A lot of MCD relies on characters not having enough time or energy or desire for emotional talks, forcing them onto the next mission without a chance to slow down a little.

I'm going to be giving them all homosexual thoughts and feelings to make it so they can't just run away from these issues. They can't just move on to the next mission. Everything is just as delicate in MCD, but it all takes a few extra days or weeks for each arc to happen, give them a realistic time to rebuild Phoenix Drop after the last attack, give the characters downtime where they aren't doing anything and can just ask one another about how they feel.

Furthermore, shipping was clearly a focus in the original series, but it was a cowardly way of shipping. The kind where each character can only have one partner and most of the couples are notably hetero. Not my jam.

I'm focusing on shipping, but everyone here has two hands and some of their hands are big enough to hold multiple people's hands. And I want to unpack why characters feel this way. I want to unpack how learning romance from novels and poetry and epics has harmed Laurance's perception of relationships. I want to unpack Garroth's internalized homophobia he didn't know he had until he started having bisexual thoughts. I want to unpack Agnes and why she's so unwilling to talk about her feelings by giving her two boyfriends who will make her talk about her fucking feelings instead of running away.

Just. A few ideas.

[lycanresistance]

afraid of annoying people on twitter with my perpetual mystreet posting so have been considering posting on here more because you all signed up for it. also there’s way less petty discourse for people to get angry at me. i’ll start: i think it’s good that mystreet laurance has been banished to hell and will never come back and if they tried to reintegrate him into the story it would be bad

[thicclaurance]

I guess you could say aphblr has been laying the discourse on t h i c c lately, get it, because you’re thicclaurance,,

Never mind

They can’t handle Laurance’s fat ass like I can

[undercovermcdfan]

lowkey wow I didnt know ppl see this as discourse. I kinda feel bad 🤔 it wasnt the intention, just I'm annoyed with ppl bringing garrance up right away-- esp after that q***rbaiting poll Jason put up, pitting melcinda and garrance against each other

I'm... not going to say garrance is valid bc I personally have bad feeling towards it, but i guess people read others joking being the same somehow as the shit old school g/l fans use to do

unless you have vylance fans sending you anons to go die or making art when laurance gets assaulted by vylad, I dont want to even hear it

Yeah, it's annoying for garrance fans to witness people bashing your ship! And I'm sorry you feel that way, I really do, but I guess what I'm trying to say-- a lot of garrance fans moved onto mys andetc. While a lot vylance fans stuck with mcd laurance-- so you gotta understand seeing him again will trigger fuck x ship, ours canon king babey!

Sometimes it be like that!