#character discourse

[lovely-cherubs]

"We want/need more complex female characters!"

But y'all couldn’t even handle them 🤨🙄😒

[perseidlion]

I like to think that if Edwin had lived, he would have quietly embraced his sexuality. I love how in the show that the anguish Edwin feels is more about being known on a deeper level, and that his affection is focused on his best friend rather than struggling with his sexuality. I think Edwin has known for a long time that he was gay, even if he didn't acknowledge it or put words to it.

We think of Edwin and the time he came from as pretty buttoned-up and therefore closeted. But until the modern era, it was actually one of the freer times for queer people in London. It was more about scandals with married men or high-up people having affairs than your average man going to an underground club or having a lover on the side. This was at the same time as the Weimar Republic in Germany where queer people were living openly. It was one of those periods in history where queer rights took several steps forward and then were forced backward.

I think Edwin is uptight because that's a way of asserting control over a life where he's had very little rather than a classic closet-case. He had to shrink himself so much in Hell. The demon chasing him was all about not drawing attention to himself lest he be destroyed. It was the horrific personification of the fear of being known.

We see him start to get over that by the end of season 1. He's confessed to Charles. He's started flirting back with the Cat King. He was uncomfortable with Monty's affections not because he was a boy, but because he didn't feel that way about him.

So I like to picture the Edwin Payne who lived as having a rich social life with his favourite underground clubs and subtle flirtations. And I imagine he would have fallen in love (probably more than once) and maybe settled into the life of a 'bachelor' with a long-time lover. Or perhaps he'd find a woman who the arrangement benefitted as well and married her.

Maybe he got sent to the trenches of WWI (almost certainly, given his age) and maybe he loved and lost someone there.

In any case, I prefer this headcanon over him being closeted and unsure of himself. I prefer to imagine him not as a cliche closeted man from the past, but as someone who just never got a chance to shine and really know himself.

[kaeyaswifefromsnezhnaya]

"fiction affects reality", then what about fiction about good? If we start creating content about a better life, will it change anything in reality? It would be nice

But I doubt it

[twst-hottest-takes]

I sent that ask about Malleus's treatment being unfair and now that it's over I'm going to make my point more clear, since it seems it wasn't last time.

Malleus's crimes:

-Putting people to sleep on a wide scale

-Less injuries that a *sports* tournament (according to Epel)

The other overblots' crimes:

-Attempted murder, including targeted murder and wiping out *all life* (aka murder on a wide scale)

Malleus's consequences:

-Accidentally killed his own father

-Physically maimed

-Magically disabled

-Losing the entire foundation of who he is and having to rebuild his identity from scratch

-The trauma of his actions

The other overblots' consequences:

-Riddle was socially shunned for a while (and even this is shown mostly in other media, not the game)

-The trauma of their actions

Meanwhile the other overblots say that Malleus deserves further punishment (to which Crowley thankfully points out they have no right to speak) as does a fair chunk of the fanbase. How does this make any sense? Might I also add that the only ones who ever apologized for their actions are Riddle, Vil, and *Malleus.* So why is it that Malleus is seen as being so much worse than the others? Why is Malleus called a monster, a living disaster, and the enemy of mankind (all things said in canon) and nobody else has anything similar said about them? I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be consequences, I'm arguing that the scale of it does not align with twst's previous messaging and themes. Whether or not Malleus's consequences are fair in general is one thing, but in comparison with our previous standards it's wildly unfair. And yet people are still calling for more, and fans are being rude to Diasomnia fans about it. It simply doesn't add up.

As for Silver, nowhere did I say Silver should pay for his father's crimes. I said that his *father* never earned the right for his image to be restored because he stood idly by against what he thought was wrong. Silver shouldn't have to be used to restore his *father's* image, when that image doesn't align with who Silver is.

Dear Anon,

I was writing a well thought out and sincere response essay to your initial take, but since you're back and doubling down I'm just going to tell you why you're wrong.

WARNING: The following response is pretty rude. Malleus gets everything he had coming to him and here's why. . .

No, really.

This is going to sound "mean."

You didn't even bother to address the questions I presented in my previous response.

You aren't going to like this.

Stop scrolling. . .

WHAT PART OF, "MALLEUS DRACONIA IS CAUSING A WORLD-ENDING MAGICAL CATASTROPHY," DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?????

The story established that PEOPLE WOULD DIE if the spell wasn't broken. Malleus had absolutely no intention of stopping what he was doing. He didn't stop at just Lilia, or the party, or the school, or even stop at Sage's Island. He was going to curse the whole of Twisted Wonderland. If he wasn't stopped by force EVERYONE WOULD HAVE DIED, and you're trying to tell me that it's not as bad as Riddle (whose overblot never affected anyone outside of the unbirthday party), Leona, and Vil (who's rampages were contained to a sports stadium) because he "Wasn't trying to hurt anyone"? Because "No one actually ended up getting hurt"?No. I'm not going to feel bad about the sentient manifestation of a mass extinction event being referred to as, "The enemy of humanity." If something or someone is threatening the entire population of the world (including beastmen, merfolk, and other fae) then he is in fact an enemy of everyone under threat, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HIS INTENTIONS ARE. You ever hear "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? Yeah. That. Malleus didn't want to kill people, but that's effectively what he was doing and ignoring that fact is blatantly irresponsible. On a better day? Everyone's fear of Malleus is largely misplaced and of course calling him an enemy of humanity would be inherently prejudiced and way out of line. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE SITUATION AT THE TIME AND YOU ARE IGNORING THE THREAT HE VERY MUCH POSED IN FAVOR OF BABYING HIM OVER HIS INTENTIONS!

Let's recap here: MULTIPLE PEOPLE TRIED TO TALK MALLEUS DOWN AND GET HIM TO STOP OF HIS OWN ACCORD. Pray tell, dear Anon, what should they have done after that? You want to compare overblots? Let's compare overblots.

Every prior overblot in this story has been resolved by every nearby available person beating the ever loving snot out of the guilty party until it was over. As a result, five out of six previous overblots were ended within an hour of them occurring. Idia at the time was an exception and had been overblotted for several hours by the time he was knocked back to his senses. In the case of the Tartarus crisis, they even used STYX most powerful anti-blot weapons (the thunder spears) to attack the Shroud brothers because it was necessary to use potentially lethal force to stop the phantoms from breaking out of the facility and effectively save the world. THEY DID WHAT THEY HAD TO DO AND THEY DID NOT HOLD BACK! THEY DID NOT KNOW IF THEY COULD SAVE IDIA! In this way, Malleus is being treated EXACTLY like the other overblotters. When Malleus Draconia overblots, they tried the usual tactics. They tried to collectively overpower him at the farewell party and no one could touch him. Everyone was helpless to stop him. They all fell to his magic quick as winking. Malleus Draconia has TERRIFYING AMOUNTS OF MAGIC. So when he won't listen to reason, WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS ARE THEY SUPPOSE TO DO TO STOP HIM FROM ENDING LIFE ON THE PLANET AS THEY KNOW IT?

. . .

I know.

How about something they've been doing since the start of the story?

TAKE AWAY HIS MAGIC!

You know, what Riddle's signature spell does? What he did to Grim in the prologue? What he did to Leona when confronting him about the sports sabotage? Remember how in order to STOP RIDDLE FROM KILLING PEOPLE Trey overwrote his signature spell so that they would stand a fighting chance? Remember when the previous overblotters (and Grim) were immediately dressed in anti-magic collars to avoid issues when they were brought to STYX to be vetted? It's almost like we established that this is a thing people do in Twisted Wonderland do to handle magical emergencies.

Truly and honestly, what are you supposed to do when one of the five most powerful mages in the world poses a threat to your very existence and those you love? Try talking him down AGAIN? It makes complete and total sense to try and make Malleus weaker. How are they supposed to fight and beat him to stop the world as they know it from ending when he has access to the UNHOLY AMOUNTS OF MAGIC that they have repeatedly established he has? That they have been bested by repeatedly. NO ONE IN ON OR OFF OF SAGE'S ISLAND HAD BEEN ABLE TO TOUCH HIM OR DO ANYTHING AGAINST HIS POWER FOR DAYS! HE HAS BEEN OVERBLOTTING FOR DAYS WITHOUT A STOP TO HIS EXPANDING SPHERE OF INFLUENCE ENVELOPING THE WORLD! Cutting off his horns was a perfectly valid step to take because THEY QUITE LITERALLY HAD NO OTHER OPTIONS!

As for leaving him dismembered and disabled. . .

First off, let's remember that I just pointed out that the fate of the world was resting on that decision, and they had no other choice.

Secondly. . .

You have got to be kidding me.

Are you really comparing Malleus losing a PIECE of ONE of his horns to someone losing a limb? It's not even like losing your pinky finger! It's maybe sorta kinda like getting a nail torn out. HIS HORN WILL GROW BACK.

"But magic is second nature to fae so it IS like losing a__"

Shut up. No it's not.

He can still use magic. HE IS NOT DISABLED!

Oh no! One of the top five most powerful mages on the planet can't casually use magic to deal with every element of his daily life and fix every minor inconvenience he's presented with anymore. He might have to struggle to do things now. WHAT EVER WILL POOR MALLEUS DO NOW THAT HE'S NOT EXPONENTIALLY MORE POWERFUL THAN ALL HIS PEERS AND TEACHERS!? I GUESS HE'LL JUST HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! HOW DARE HE BE HUMANIZED! HOW DARE THIS PRECIOUS TRAUMATIZED MAGESTIC PRINCELY OVERPOWERED DRAGON IN HUMAN FORM BE FORCED TO LIVE LIKE THE COMMON FOLK!

I guess he'll just have to learn to see things through the eyes of his peers and have a new perspective on life he wasn't privvy to previously now that magic isn't something he can fling around casually. Seriously. How dare Malleus be given character development potential when none of the other overblotters were treated like this. IT'S SSOOOOOO UNFAAAAAAIIIRRRRRRR!!!1!1!1!1!!

Oh yeah, do you want to keep comparing him to the other overblotters? Because with how much of his horn he lost, he's about as disfigured as Leona. You know. The guy with the scar? Malleus has a scar now, however, unlike Leona's, Malleus' scar will disappear.

Have I mentioned how Riddle was in the same boat of abusing his power because he thought he was doing "the right thing" because he was also traumatized as a child? Riddle is so weak by comparison and caused so little a comparative fuss that a punch to the face and getting hassled by his dormmates is justice by TWST standards (we all know this is a writng problem for this game in general, right?). And you REALLY don't want me to mention how every other person who overblotted acted out of their minds with rage and pent up emotions as they did violent things that they ordinarily wouldn't consider while Malleus was oddly lucid and could actually consider being talked to while he cursed the world. Malleus was destroying the world and in enough of his right mind to consider stopping. But no, Malleus is the one being treated unfairly.

Dear Anon, Malleus Draconia has always been an extreme character. He's always been extremely powerful and used his magic flippantly with little regard for how others feel about it. His overblot caused an extreme situation that the rest of the cast was forced to take extreme measures to deal with. Him being treated "differently" from all of the other overblotters is DIRCTLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE DANGER HE POSED. On the extreme scale Malleus is working on, he is certainly not worse off than any other previous chapters' final bosses. So, no, I don't care that people called him mean names when he was slowly destroying the world. I don't care that his magic was "nerfed" and now he has to come down off his high horse and live a little like everyone else now. And I really don't care that fans are asking for more justice to be done JUST LIKE THEY DO WITH EVERY OTHER OVERBLOTTER WHO GOT OFF WITH A SLAP ON THE WRIST! WE DEMAND MORE FROM ALL OF THEM! Malleus is NOT an exception.

"Thank you for your take."

And yes, saying that Silver should not have his heroic moment as a knight in shining armor because that armor was worn when committing war crimes IS devaluing Silver based on his father's sins. Being a knight in shining armor is completely in character for Silver (AS A FREAKING DISNEY PRINCESS), and the fact that he is doing a good thing is meant to CONTRAST with his father who did bad things, NOT absolve said father of wrongdoing. The same tool that was once used for evil is now being used for good. IT'S POETIC!

[rants-about-opm]

I would have preferred if Garou had kept his memory after the whole time travel adventure, and managed to do something Saitama and Genos hadn't: realize that Saitama is a problem.

I wish garou would have run off into the jungles like he did in the webcomic and just gone absolutely bonkers with forbidden knowledge, finally seeing that every big conflict comes to a head with this bald man, and how that isn't a good thing because that means the only thing standing between humanity and the kind of havoc people like himself try to wreak every day is a man who never gets there in time, never learns, and never changes despite having fended off such world shattering enemies several times before.

Can you imagine Garou being chased out of the town square because he's there with a megaphone telling an absolutely insane story about him being radioactive and getting knocked the fuck out by a god egg?

It's funny, but also could have so many interesting story repercussions; the Hero Association, who laughed Genos off, now have to rethink their entire approach to everything because the guy who was kicking the shit out of their heroes two weeks ago now wants nothing to do with them and is instead running around freaking out about the same story Genos told them, with the caveat that he doesn't think Saitama's supposed strength is anything but a ticking time bomb.

Genos would definitely end up hearing about what Garou is up to, and have to wrestle with his jealousy, his suspicion of Garou, and his attachment to Saitama if he is going to eventually team up with the only other person who knows the full extent of the truth about Saitama's power in order to prevent the doom Garou predicts will come about should other forces as powerful as the hero hunter was continue to challenge Saitama.

And of course, running around town doomsdaying is sure to catch the attention of Bang, who has no idea what to do with Garou anymore, the attention of the general population, who are going to flip their shit when the "ultimate evil" suddenly changes his mind about killing them and is trying to warn them of an even more ultimate evil, and also the attention of the exact kind of challengers Garou is trying to warn everyone about, who no doubt will be drawn to Saitama the way people who learn of his power often are.

I just think it could have been a real domino effect type deal. That being said, I'm not wanting ONE and Murata to change what they have in mind for the story. Somehow I get the feeling that the experienced writers and artists who have brought us countless other great stories have a better idea of how OPM should proceed than a guy with a Tumblr account and a dream.

[polling-sonic-fans]

Thanks for the poll anon!

Polls for the Sonic fandom on just about anything. Share polls you like to get more data. Asks and submissions always open.

[rig0rm0rbid]

OK OK MAKING THIS POST TO ELABORATE ON A SPECIFIC HEADCANON THAT I HAVE THAT I DON'T EVER SEE ANYONE ELSE HAVE ARO ACE RAY STANTZ

I fully stand by Ray being aroace. I feel like a lot of people don't feel this way (possibly, and this is just my assumption so you know, friendly discourse guys) because he is the most openly affectionate member of the team. The only Ghostbuster (from the original team) I've ever seen claimed as aroace is Egon which feels really weird as not only as an autistc person, but also as a gay man in a queer platonic relationship. It's almost like people can't comprehend that an aroace individual could be affectionate. Egon is a more closed off character, and while I head canon him on the ace-spec (as an asexual), I see this happen with so many "rigid" or hyperintelligent characters. Especially characters widely accepted/headcanoned as autistic. And yes, I know there's the whole dream sequence in the first movie. I am well aware (my friend hates that scene lmao). However, the mood slime in the second movie exists and yall still stand by aroace Spengs (and no hate to that! Sexuality is fluid guys!) But maybe an aroace character that is allowed to be affectionate would be nice to see every once and a while!

[stromuprisahat]

character: *holds others responsible for their actions according to rules of the world* them:

me: Do you realize a society needs to have rules and means to enforce them, otherwise it will collapse into chaos?! That a well-written realistic world doesn't avoid punishing characters favoured by the narrative? That treating them like any ordinary person of their position is realism, not malice of those, who do it? That morality keeps shifting with time and due to various circumstances? That times of crisis have harsher rules than peaceful utopia? That judging past- albeit fictional- by modern rules doesn't only do disservice to everyone involved, but prevents you from understanding it? That reading should broaden your horizons instead of fitting characters you connect to into you-shaped form?

[batransacon]

Unpopular opinion but if ur a Lily fan and hate on jegulus purely based on ur love for Lily dni. If you can’t see a character outside of their relationship (especially with women and men) then you aren’t actually a fan of that character. Let women be something outside of the men in their lives !!!

[jollywasnthere]

ok this might be a little controversal but I don't think sigma is shippable with anyone

no it's not because he's technically three (it kinda is actually) I'm completely aware that he's an adult with a working adult brain, but he does only have three years of experience living.

Like, the whole point of age of consent is because people under the age of 16 (I think it should be higher but that's a whole new discourse) don't have enough experience, the knowledge to be able to consent and are easily impressionable. And I think that applies to Sigma.

Despite having a mature mind, Sigma still is EXTREMELY impressionable, you can see that by how easily he complies with orders, how he instantly trusted Atsushi and Dazai after only a few minutes of knowing them and how he would have followed whoever found him first in the desert back them.

Not to mention that he doesn't even know who he is supposed to be and just wants to have some space and time to figure that out, as you can see with his desire to have a home.

Sigma IS immature and I don't think he would be able to consent with relationships and would probably just end up getting dragged round by their partner, even if their partner doesn't mean to. It's literallly like if you gave a newborn the comprehension ability of an adult, their brain is developed but they still lack the experience to use it like an actual adult.

Consent isn't just about age, but their understanding of the world and understanding of other people, which Sigma lacks of.

[mistress-of-vos]

I keep seeing very weird takes about Jean-Paul and J*son T*dd being "Tim Drake haters" and I am thinking about doing that analysis I have always wanted to do about how despite Azrael taking over his mind during his era as Batman, Jean-Paul was showing (messily) that he believed Tim was a kid who should not be out there as Robin as Gotham was a cruel city that would *kill him*.

But in summary, I think it says a lot that even at his worst moment and being fully taken over by his brainwashing, Jean-Paul still managed to wake up from it before hurting Tim irreversibly (the infamous choking scene). JP not only stops himself, stopping Azrael from hurting Tim, but he even apologizes and tries to speak about what's happening to him. And one can argue how the distance he puts between himself and Tim later in Knightfall is, in JP's subconscious, a way of making sure AzBats won't hurt the kid.

Hell, there IS a panel of JP saying to Catwoman how he doesn't want to hurt Tim, and implying that him (JP) is scared of endangering Tim again. Jean-Paul explicitly tells Dick that he likes Robin, and shows certain jealousy to the bond Tim and Dick have.

And this is only New Earth, in n52 Jean-Paul liked all the bats (except Dick, supposedly). Although perhaps this is taking it too far, as n52 J*son also seemed to liked all the bats. INCLUDING TIM.

So, to summarize: Jean-Paul has never hated Tim, in fact, he seemed to be the only character written as recognizing Tim was a kid who should not be doing vigilante work. And this is CONSCIOUS Jean-Paul saying these things, vs a very conscious J*son being the one deciding to take out his anger on Tim as if Tim were to blame for the whole Joker thing.

Comparing JP to J*son in any way has no objective, as their circumstances are very different and they took very different paths regarding their anger. But implying that JP is a Tim hater because people want J*son to have someone who's also taking their anger out on Tim for no reason? I'd say Damian is right there but tbh I don't want my baby bat being labeled like that either.

(Huge disclaimer: This isn't meant as J*son bashing. His character is canonically the way he is and that's fine. My issue is people wanting to turn Jean-Paul into something he ISN'T to fit another's character's narrative. In fanfic is okay but please stop pretending those ideas are objective)

[lovely-cherubs]

Disassembly Discussion #1: N is NOT obsessed with Uzi

Am I the only one who doesn’t like/disagrees with the whole "N is obsessed with Uzi" and vice versa argument? Like I’m sorry, but as somebody who’s been an outcast my entire life and wasn't able to find people who treated me like a human being until like high school, I find that argument to be pretty vague. Like obsessed how? Like Marionette DuPain Cheng obsessed?

To me, I don't see N being obsessed with Uzi at all. I mean think about it: his whole entire life he been treated like an outcast by his own two teammates. V pretended to not notice him and J abused him physically and verbally.

Then we get to episode 1, he finally found somebody who saw him for who he was, who DIDN'T think he was "useless and terrible", who in general he could relate to (aka Uzi). It makes sense that he would be closer to her than everybody else in the group. I mean, from the beginning it was already established that he wasn’t that close with V or J, especially J for obvious reasons.

Not only that, but people seem to forget that episode six, he literally lost V and assumed she was dead. If I were him, I'd probably become more on edge with the fear of losing the only person I have left with me. And don't even get me started with Uzi. She’s been treated like an outcast by everybody in the bunker. Add her negligent father to the picture along with being constantly bullied by Lizzy, we can see how that took a toll on her self-image, self-confidence, and everything.

It may seem like obsession/limerance, but it's really not. When you’ve been treated like crap your entire life by those around you, it can be pretty easy to get attached and close to somebody who finally treats you like a human being. Speaking from experience.

So, I’m sorry but I kind of find this whole idea that N is obsessed with Uzi to be pretty ignorant and it makes me think that the people who say this have been liked by the people around them their entire lives, much more, weren't outcasts growing up. Let me know what you think. Feel free to disagree with me, but I don’t think that N is obsessed with Uzi by a longshot.

[xerith-42]

Stop blaming characters for bad writers

Seriously, stop fucking doing this. While this is a post that could certainly be applicable to MANY fandoms, I'm mainly directing this whole rant at my target audience which is mentally ill minecraft obsessed freaks.

If a character is written badly, gets badly fumbled by the creator, or has the ball dropped in regards to their arc in some way, a lot of people will blame the character, as if they're a real conscious person making these decisions. When they aren't. They're a block man literally being controlled by two people who just aren't very good writers and one or both of them are incredibly sexist, kind of racist, ableist, and just bad writers in general.

Yeah, Laurance does some pretty shitty things through out Season 2 of MCD, actively crossing lines he wouldn't have previously crossed. We as fans can cope by saying something something calling, or just saying Laurance is a bad abusive person, but the reality is that the writers wanted to force the series to fit a specific vision and as a result were willing to do anything to get the series to that point. In order to make Aaron the most favorable suitor for Aphmau, her previous suitors need to be out of the picture, or clearly inferior options.

Garroth suffered the out of the picture, being mostly absent outside of a few cutscenes here and there until episode 81 of season 2, but episode 81 is the culmination of the writers goals to make Aarmau happen. By the time Garroth has returned to the series, the damage has already been done. He's not getting the life he wants. And Laurance is written out of the picture as well, but only after being shown to be inferior because Jesson were pushing an agenda.

Laurance didn't deteriorate as a person due to neglect of his physical and mental well being after a severely traumatic experience. He deteriorated as a character because the writers stopped giving as much of a shit about him and instead were using the series as self indulgent fanfiction of alternate versions of themselves. That's not Laurance's fault.

And this applies to any character who was completely fumbled in MyStreet due to this similar focus on wish fulfillment from the writers. Jess has stated that the relationship between Aphmau and Aaron in Phoenix Drop High is reflective of her relationship with Jason, we all know this. This means that any characters who come off as total fucking creeps in that series (namely Gene), are not actually acting on the whims of their own autonomy or desires as characters. They are acting in service of telling a predetermined story that they are retroactively being added into for author fulfillment.

In this regard I fully support fandom cope and say that you should rewrite your little guys to your hearts content. But if you're going to criticize these characters for their actions, don't criticize them. They didn't do anything wrong. All characters are just puppets in service of the story or themes a writer is trying to push. If a character acts in an objectively terrible way, especially a way that isn't in line with their previous characterizations, that is a failing of the writers, not the character.

And I feel like largely a lot of us can and frequently do this. We're actively criticizing Jesson for being terrible low-key bigoted writers all the god damn time, it's like half of the content here. But when we get into character discourse I feel like some people cling onto bad actions of the canon too closely and I've seen more than a few posts presume some pretty terrible interpretations of characters based on these actions. Obviously Laurance is a character I and a lot of others are fixated on so a lot of discourse revolves around him, and it was seeing some... interesting takes on him that prompted me to start writing this post.

But this happens to everyone. Quite personally based on the character I was shown in MyStreet, it feels really weird that Garroth would make an insensitive comment about his brother's weight. Yeah siblings poke fun at each other and often cross lines, but if that was something Zane was seriously insecure about (which it seems like he might be) then it does make Garroth come off as a really insensitive brother, which just doesn't gel with how hard he tries to bond with Zane despite their tense relationship. And I don't think Garroth should be criticized for making those comments.

Whoever wrote those lines (Jess and/or Jason) should be criticized for writing a scene where a character is mocked by their older sibling over a physical insecurity even if said sibling would not normally do that. It's not Travis' fault that Jesson never decided to give him more of a character beyond "funny pervy guy" that's not funny in every anime they've watched until Season 5 of MyStreet. It's unfair to try and say Travis should be scrutinized for his borderline sexual harassment of some characters when it's not his fault that happened, he was written by writers who don't think this sort of behavior isn't all that bad if they make it out for comedy and punch him in the face.

And god dammit it's not Laurance's fault that his jealousy became the most prevalent emotion he felt. Laurance has always been a character to give into his vices and yet fight against them at the same time, it's what makes him compelling. If they were going to pull on those vices in order to make him a less appealing love interest, he never had a chance to really be his own character after a certain point. Because at a certain point in Season 2, Jesson stopped caring about the character they had been writing for over a hundred episodes at that point. They just wanted to canonize their self insert ship and were willing to do anything to get it.

Laurance isn't an abusive angry person who would have killed Aphmau if they got together. He's a flawed character being handled by incredibly flawed writers who are prone to making some of the worst decisions you have ever seen a creator make in regards to their character writing. He was caught in the crossfire of the adoration he received from a very dedicated fanbase, and the creator who would rather pretend he and his previous arc didn't exist for the sake of her fun. It's not Laurance's fault his arc was stilted, jerked around, and ultimately ended with him completely face planting. And yet still reliably dragging his bloodied body up at just the slightest glimmer of hope (Void Paradox).

It's deeply poetic and tragic that I can describe his character in universe and in the meta-textual sense that way, but we should never blame Laurance, or Aaron, or any other characters for things being like this.

They didn't write the show. Jess and Jason did.

[kaeyaswifefromsnezhnaya]

I like how Nene combines her flaws with her good traits in a balance that suits a heroine well. I like when she's called a heroine because that's what she is. But about her traits

Kou seems to be kind-kind, self-sacrificing, but in a painful traumatic way, Nene, what about her, she has all of this too, but not so brightly, partially, in the most difficult situations, not out of the blue easily, she can stop and think about herself and others. She's willing to die to bring Aoi back, but that's an extreme measure, she doesn't base her self-esteem on self-sacrifice in general. On weekdays, you won't find her immersed in a control complex caused by the desire for attention, even though she's the "beloved heroine." She's just joking, really. I don't blame Kou, but I can only feel sorry for him, the boy is deeply affected by what's happening. Nene knows how to just live and enjoy life, even though she knows she's going to die soon. Isn't that incredible?

Hanako knows how to pretend to be cheerful and hide everything, he is a master at this, aaand Nene can do it too, so well that she fooled him(!), at the same time she is emotional and natural girl. She often laughs, screams, and cries, which can't help but make you sympathize with her as a natural character. And with all that, she often tries to pull herself together when it comes to important things. The way she pretended to be asleep to find out more information, how she set conditions for Tsukasa even though she was very afraid of him, how she kept herself together to negotiate with Hanako on the far shore. Oh, she understands the situation she's in, Nanaban-sama, she's pretending to be cheerful for both of you.

Tsukasa, let's say, is physically strong and knows how to find a way out of any situation, that's how he taught Mininene, but she tried as best she could before that, she jumped on Yako's dolls, she took Shijima hostage, how she tried to escape from the palanquin in Sumire's border, how she crawled through a narrow pipe as a fish, and these officials arts where she carries Amane in her arms. Because she's strong girl, she does gardening and can handle heavy gardening tools so she pumped up lol. She will not be left completely helpless in many situations.

Aoi, like, with external gloss, values the inner, but Nene too... she just went towards this for some time in the plot, that's all, she is quite able to value good personal qualities in people qualities, but the way she still enjoys the wrapper makes her more alive, and not an attempt at being sigmagirl, which is not like these others pickmies, but we are all sinners 🙏🏻 let girl have a hobby. It stinks of this "I'm not into guys, makeup, and all that stuff because I'm not like other girls" thing, but like, what about not liking it without elevating yourself above others. Because if a girl starts liking "all things girly" she automatically becomes a disgrace in the eyes of those people. But Nene doesn't have to change her hobbies for "cooler" ones, why can't she just be herself, hmm?

Teru, for example, has information, and Nene also tries to manipulate the pieces of the puzzle that she has. She often draws very good conclusions from the little she has. And yet, it must be said that everyone is constantly hiding things from her. Hanako hasn't told her about the death threat, how he's going to deal with it, who he is, what happened in his past, what's really behind the history of this school, although it ultimately doesn't help her, because Nene is already involved enough to know something that would help her. Aoi constantly pretends to her and hides everything, which is why her breakdown in the Shinigami boundary comes as a shock to Nene. But is it fair to Nene to wait for her to figure it out on her own and not say a word, forcing her to believe in a false image that she created for herself due to the lack of truth? And yet, Nene still believes Aoi, is drawn to her, and is willing to sacrifice herself for her. Kou is also very secretive in himself. Nene is caught in a whirlwind of dangerous and unfamiliar events, knowing the bare minimum, and still copes. She builds chains in her head every time she gets into a situation. She's not wrong that Hanako is not indifferent to her, and she still did not believe it until she was sure of it. She's not wrong that Tsukasa is angry that Amane killed him, or that she is the main character, because she is, or that Tsukasa kidnapped her with some purpose of using her work and spite Amane. She thinks.

It's just that none of these qualities are pumped up to the maximum, it seems that Nene is not good at any of this, but she does not need to, the point is that she has this soup of everything at once, also with shortcomings, which, by the way, are not so much hyperbolized and do not radically stop the plot. It's just that Nene can actually do a lot of things, but no one is interested in it, the main attention is drawn to her shortcomings. But this is Aidairo's writing... such double standards in fandom, to be honest.

Not letting Kou deal with his savior and control complex, tormenting Mitsuba with his presence on the near shore when he no longer wants it, to show Aoi as a beautiful decoration of the plot, to merge Akane into Aoi's simp, not to give Hanako retribution for his actions, all this does not cause even half of the indignation that the next gag about Nene, who got stuck on some handsome passerby, does. Yes, this is once again, and it is not very funny, perhaps, but what about the listed list? It's not just Nene who is exposed through some old and no longer relevant jokes. It's not just Nene who can't fully understand her behavior.

How all the reasons for Nene's hate are just a lead-in to "I don't like how unreasonable she is at her age" but she was never meant to be a young genius heroine. She is the most simple and ordinary, and at the same time beautiful in her own way, as each of us can be. This hatred for schoolgirl characters so often stems from some of their own complexes. I love Nene and always have. Even when Aoi was my favorite, I didn't want to scold Nene, because why 😭😭

[twst-hottest-takes]

In a post you called Vil a Gary Stu, but also said you didn't consider Malleus a Gary Stu. This to me is absolute nonsense, I can see where you're coming from. With Vil's writing being all over the place, and his good looks. However this does not make him a Gary Stu.

I assume in your other post the rules for Gary Stu are basically good looking, can do anything by himself, no flaws, or real problems with the character, loved by all, and is basically immortal. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these things.

As a Vil fan though, Vil does not fit all of these, he only fits some. He is shown multiple times making contracts with Azul (Azul's ceremonial robe card, the second camping event), which shows he can't get out if situations himself and he needs people. If not those though, look at Book 6, he couldn't have gotten out of Styx himself and he couldn't even un-old himself when he was old! Like this dude really thought his career was over.

Which leads me to his next point, his character has a lot of flaws, he's a very insecure man, which often leads him to jealousy and has him seek validation from others (Vil's labwear card, Rook's labwear card, Book 5, and possibly other cards that I'm not remembering).

Also not everyone is charmed by Vil. Take Epel for example, or even the freshmen who participated in the VDC. Arguably you could also put Leona on the list of people who don't like Vil. So while there are a lot of people who like Vil in the game, there are also people in the game who don't like him.

Also Vil is not an immortal being, and he's about as protected by the plot as all the other characters are. When he was overblotted he didn't have an unbeatable overblot like SOME PEOPLE *Cough cough* Malleus *Cough cough*, Vil is not a fae and has all the weaknesses a human has.

So in my opinion, Vil is not a Gary Stu, and neither is Malleus. Also I'm sorry for not giving much context on him being insecure and jealous, so here's the run down of you want it.

Vil's labwear card: Rook says "You're getting a little fat." And Vil was like "There's no way, everyone and their mother would have told me that by now." And Rook is like "Well, I can literally notice all the small details, and you're getting a little fat." Vil then decides to go on a diet where he doesn't eat any sweets. He runs into Trey, and Trey offers him some cake. Vil is like "No, Rook said I was getting fat, I can't eat cake." And after some talking with Vil, Trey convinces him to eat some cake. The End.

Rook's labwear card: Basically Rook is following Leona around, and starts spying on him from outside of a window instead of making a potion. Vil's like "Oh I get it, so you love him over me?" And Rook's like "No, I love everything. Besides I joined the science club just so I could produce your photos." Basically having to reassure Vil that he does still care for him. The End.

Book 5: Neige's social media, and asking siri if he's still hot. The End.

Omg I forgot to give context for the contract thing...here's a basic rundown.

Azul Ceremonial Robes: Vil and Azul have a contract where Azul gives Vil skin care products with a secret ingredient in it. The End.

The Second camping event: Vil, Azul, and someone else (I cannot for the life of me remember who the other person was), was trying to defeat the second monster who wasn't the gym teacher, and Azul said "Well if you want me to help you guys, we need to make deals. Vil I want your recipe for the smoothies you make, so I can sell them at the lounge for like a week." And Vil accepted. The End. (You know Azul did not sell that for only a week though).

Perhaps "Gary Stu" will end up being a misnomer, because my qualifications for that title are pretty different.

A lengthy explanation below.

A simple pet peeve of mine is that Vil's writing displays the most blatant character favoritism in this game. When viewed through the lens of, "Vil is simply not allowed to fail," I apply the Gary Stu title to him because he's essentially a perfect person.

While not everyone admires Vil, all of his detractors are painted as having invalid criticisms. Epel, Ace, and Deuce, just don't like Vil's strict regimen. While what Vil does is not painted in a kind light they are seen as immature and in the wrong because he's just using "tough love" to help them become better versions of themselves. They all end up changing their tunes and respecting Vil in the end. Leona also doesn't like Vil and refers to him as a nag, but that complaint is also invalidated when Leona admits that Vil is good at what he does--such as when he invites him to compete in the Bead Brawl tournament in Leona's hometown event. Anyone who dislikes Vil past that is a "hater" who isn't worth listening to (not a comment on the fandom or meta, strictly speaking in game here).

Vil is never "bad" at anything. He's naturally beautiful and magically gifted, but prides himself on how his looks are not magically altered and that he doesn't use spells on the products he uses. He's physically fit enough to get regular compliments from Jack--the quintessential jock. He throws around the Savanaclaw students and Floyd during Beanfest, and only loses to Rook (who survived an altercation between MALLEUS AND LEONA the previous year) because he ran out of ammo to counter with and essentially lost on his own terms. He never once has a problem cooking during his Culinary Crucible event and impresses the ghost chef with how good he is at "tempering" chocolate even though he's never done it before (Vil doesn't even get chocolate stains on his chef's coat). Vil also impresses Idia with his skill at videogames that he doesn't habitually play in book 6, something Riddle and Leona get laughed at over. While someone might say that Vil had to work to get to where he is now, there's a lot more telling than showing in that regard. Even in his flashback when he is remembering the kids who were going to attack him when he was young, Vil says that he wasn't concerned because he had trained in boxing and fencing so it didn't matter that Jack stepped in to help chase them off. We NEVER see Vil actually struggling where it matters. Oh yeah, and he's also good with kids and his hoards of fans.

As for his flaws; they are all treated as normal character traits as opposed to actual flaws. Have we ever noticed that Vil is the only character who doesn't ever get treated like a joke? While every other character gets quirks and eccentricities that can be exploited for comedy, Vil is always played as straightforward and reasonable. Riddle is a stickler for the rules and easily gets mad. Leona is lazy and hates vegetables. Azul is greedy and physically inept. Kalim is naive and easily manipulated. Idia is a shut in extreme gamer nerd, and Malleus is socially awkward and eccentric about invitations and gargoyles. All of these things are made out to be weaknesses of their characters. They get the characters into trouble, are exploited by other characters or are treated as the butt of some joke. But Vil? I can count on ONE finger the number of times one of Vil's so called flaws was used this way--During the Sunset Savana event when Leona uses Vil's vanity against him to lure him into participating in the Bead Brawl scheme by promising him exclusive access to the legendary hot springs in Leona's hometown. Other than that, Vil is always treated as a down to earth, reasonable person just trying (and succeeding) to make the most of what he has in life and living as his best self. . .What part of that is flawed? He's painfully normalized and understandable.

I'll refer back to your examples specifically, anon:

When Vil asks if Azul can provide him with a more top of the line toner, he's not particularly desperate or distressed. He's just testing to see if Azul can deliver on his promises and maybe get a better product out of it.

Vil being willing to ask others for help or "take one for the team" in Camp Vargas is a good example of him not being some sort of overpowered one man army who never needs help. But that does not a Gary Stu make. Vil being humble in this instance is not reflective of any kind of flaw, just that he knows when he's out of his league and that's a fairly normal and good thing.

Vil being insecure and doubting Rooks loyalty is. . .fine? I guess. It's Rook's vignette so it's hard to say how insecure Vil was actually feeling at the time when he's been around Rook for a couple of years now and should be familiar with this behavior. (As an aside I kind of took it like a conversation they might have had on multiple occasions already because they're just that normal with each other at this point. . .)

Being self-conscious would be a fine and standard way to make Vil into a less perfect character, but even when he does get concerned about incidentally gaining weight (which only Rook noticed) he is still level-headed and willing to sacrifice a rigid emergency diet because Trey of all people convinced him that the cake would be fine. If he was really that insecure he'd be stepping on a scale compulsively every day to stop this from ever happening. But no. He's reasonable.

The only time Vil's vanity and insecurity are actually a detriment to him is in the main story (Book 5) when he is obligated to overblot and share some of the negative traits of the villain he's based off of (the Evil Queen from Snow White). His jealousy lasts for the duration of the book and then disappears in the next part. He just had a bad day and now he's better. His grudge against Neige doesn't even stand the test of time because he makes it a point of explaining that he knows Neige has his own struggles so the guys shouldn't be too harsh on him. PICK A LANE! DO YOU HATE HIM OR NOT!? If Vil was actually jealous to the point of attempted murder than he shouldn't be sticking his neck out for the competition and grudgingly agreeing with the results of the SDC.

By all accounts some of the things you listed SHOULD be able to make Vil into a deeper character, but the game itself doesn't commit to any of them. He SHOULD be vain. He SHOULD be concerned about growing old. He SHOULD be insecure about how people perceive him, and he SHOULD be incredibly flawed and consistently disliked to an important degree, but he's just not.

In summary: I call Vil Schoenheit a Gary Stu because he can't be consistently characterized to ever be in the wrong or be on the receiving end of a joke. He's set up to never fail at anything and doesn't struggle in ways that the players can actually see. He has character traits that could be flaws, but the rest of his writing balances them out to the point where they are basically meaningless. As I said, he is "essentially a perfect person," and this makes him awfully boring and underwhelming. If any of Vil's characteristics were more exaggerated to the point where they ACTUALLY caused problems (and furthermore weren't skewed though a lens of unrealistic reasonability) or he was showed to have ACTUAL WEAKNESSES, then this conversation wouldn't be happening.

I hope this was informative and didn't come across as too combative.

. . .

But you did ask for it.

Thank you for your take.

Also thank you for citing your sources on the points you made in your entry. I can't explain enough how much I appreciate when people tell me exactly what they are talking about. It makes it a lot easier to look back on those moments with a fresh pair of eyes and check to see if I missed something.

(Conks out before I can have an aneurism. [But I could have said SO MUCH MORE.])

(Also I would never make immortality an objective qualifier for being a Gary Stu. That seems a little silly to me but it didn't fit in with the rest of the essay.)

Bonus Round: Vil should have more moments like when he gets mad that someone almost hit him in the face with a snowball during the second new year's event. Or having his international fame play against him like in the first Halloween event. Give this man a stalker (who isn't ROOK for frack'sake) who's actually causing him problems. Give him an in-game hatedom that is super toxic and he tries to ignore but it feeds his insecurity about his popularity and how he compares to Neige. Have him actually worry about Rook's loyalty. Have his manager harass him or give him industry related problems. Have him going to school under a pseudonym. GIVE HIM PROBLEMS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!