#like. I did morally questionable things that I now understand. I can forgive myself and grow now.

[spade-club]

Had a nightmare last night and in typical me fashion, I forgot about it but as soon as I got in my car after work it just crashed down on me what happened and why its. A problem. I havent had a sexual dream that clearly triggered me in a very obvious way in a while. I forget how fucked up it is to wake up and know that theres a part of me thats so used to being treated that way that it hardly registers as a bad dream despite it clearly being distressing. I wish I could make sense of dreams like this, especially considering the severity of them and what they do to me. I have so many suspects for what could have happened to me, isnt that fucked up? I can't trust any of my memories or experiences. My dreams wont let me forget but I dont think I'm capable of remembering, isnt that fucked up? I just want to heal. I just want to be free. I dont want to be afraid anymore.

[linkspooky]

Spinner ending kind of confirmed for me that even if Horikoshi does bring back Shigaraki/Tenko, it won't be so he can heal the League, and they can reform together. I get the sense that we are even supposed to feel like all of the villains *deserved* their fates, that it isn't something they deserve saving *from*. It's like he couldn't decide between having them be evil + getting punished for it and having them be sympathetic to an extend + humanising them. I'm seriously trying my hardest to wrap my head around this, it feels so cruel??

I already talked about it in this post, but Obito's death is a much better example of how to "save the villain's heart" then what MHA is trying to sell us.

It's this excessive focus on whether or not the league's crimes are forgivable that's really the problem, because it comes down to the implication that once the league has crossed a certain line into unforgivable territory they're "no longer human" and therefore not deserving of human empathy for what they've suffered.

The main characters constantly use that line "I can't forgive them" so they don't have to think about the league as human beings who have suffered greatly.

What does it matter if they're forgivable or not? My Hero Academia is not a work that analyzes moral philosophy. I'm not reading Crime and Punishment here.

The theme they brought up is "Are heroes obligated to save the villains too, even if those villains have done unforgivable things."

I've stated this before but whether their crimes are forgivable or not is irrelevant to that question, because it's about the heroes obligation to save everyone not pick and choose who to save. They are government servants who are supposed to use their quirk to stop villains and save lives, but at the start of the story heroes only focus on the brutally beating down villains part of the job. The central theme of the manga is that the greatest hero wins by saving, and saves by winning, therefore Deku must save even his enemies.

The worst part is that despite bringing up the topic of forgiveness, MHA basically has nothing to say about the issue of what should be forgiven, what shouldn't, and how justice should be applied in this situation. It is wildly inconsistent because the villains are all held to task, whereas characters like hawks are never held accountable, and Enji while put in a wheelchair suffers way less consequences than his son and victim Toya.

Since MHA has like nothing intelligent to say about accountability, redemption and what merits justice and what merits forgiveness it might as well have just swept everything the villains did under the rug and thrown them in prison because we would have gotten the same result regardless. The story never addresses anything it brings up or applies consequences to the heroes so why do villains need consequences too?

I'm reading another comic right now Gunnerkrigg court, which actually discusses these themes of morality, and whether victims should be saved even if they've harmed others in the past.

Zimmy is a character being used as a human battery for the court's (a shadowy organizations) plan to create a new world without the Ether, which is a chaotic force that warps reality. Omega is a character who is for this plan, because she is 1) a semi-omniscient being who sacrificed her own bodily autonomy in order to help the court by giving them predictions of the future that furthered it's plans.

(Therefore, she does have the understandable perspective of, Well I sacrificed myself for the greater good so why can't Zimmy?)

and 2) Zimmy is kind of a jerk, who has an incredibly dangerous ability that puts everyone around her in harm's way. Therefore if you're going to sacrifice someone for the greater good she makes sense.

Zimmy isn't a perfect victim. She constantly gaslights her girlfriend by telling her that everyone hates her except for her so she'll never leave. (A girlfriend who is rather selflessly devoted to I might add). She is like, a walking bomb ready to go off at any moment.

At the same time the story never minimizes Zimmy's suffering with the idea that she "deserves it" for being a bad victim. The main character is consistently advocating for her, which also SHOWS the main character's empathy rather than MHA's habit of continually INISTING upon Deku's empathy without ever showing it.

I don't think the author expects us to side with Omega, but it does entertain her argument so it's a two sided discussion. To cap this off I hope this demonstrates the difference between what I think is a thoughtful depiction of a bad victim and to what extent the main characters are responsible for saving them, and a completely thoughtless one and why one is more entertaining to read than the other.

[towards-toramunda]

I feel like it’s worthwhile to point out that nobody is saying Ludinus is a good or morally grey guy. Nobody is saying the ruby vanguard is a good group. When people (or at least me idk I can’t talk for others) are saying that seeing the humanity of the people drawn into the other side is important it’s because Matt keeps making a point to bring it up. Matt showing us Tuldus being forced to pray for hours as a child and being punished for lack of piety, showing us a locket with a child on a cultist they’d just killed, showing us Lilliana’s pain, and now with Bor’Dor’s backstory with the gods.

Being a DM myself I think that its important not to discount the constant mentions of the trauma from the masses in this cult because Matt, the dungeon master, the story weaver, the one calling the shots, keeps making a point to highlight the backstories of the people who join the vanguard. I’m guessing (based on the fact that Utkarsh doesn’t watch the show and had no context for what the vanguard was) that Utkarsh came to Matt and said “give me a character idea” and Matt decided that the story needed a PC on the other side.

It really feels like he keeps saying “Look at how these people have been hurt. See them as people with trauma and love and family who easily fell for Ludinus’ lie.”

And that lie is another reason I think its valid to question the gods. Because questioning the gods doesn’t make you want what Ludinus wants. Questioning power, why it acts the way it acts, does the things it does, and doesn’t do the things it doesn’t do, is important in any society! Even one where there are gods (and I’d say especially one where there are gods with questionable morals and backstories). Because while Ludinus is evil and has vile intentions, he is drawing people into his power grab by hiding it in a nugget of truth: many feel slighted by the gods. Many have seen the good things the gods can do and are left to wonder why they’re left to suffer. Why the gods choose to help some and not them. Why their families forced them to worship those they didn’t believe.

And seeing this story NOW when we’ve seen so many stories in real life of people who are traumatized and hurt and confused going to the internet with their grief and being led to hate groups and radicalization feels VERY intentional on Matt’s part. It feels (to me) like he’s begging us to see the ruby vanguard members as people who were drawn in by a charismatic leader who pretended to understand their pain and used them.

Matt keeps telling us its important to see the humanity and the trauma faced by the other side. He could be doing this to flavor the story or to create tension or push the characters to make hard choices or some other reason. I just feel that empathizing with the trauma of those on the other side doesn’t make you akin to a terrorist sympathizer despite what some seem to take from that, and its wild given how clearly (to me) Matt wants us to empathize with them.

(Because this is the internet and people love to misread things:

I don’t agree with the things the people in the ruby vanguard do, I don’t think Matt agrees with it, but I think Matt wants us to feel conflicted with them. I think Matt wants us to believe they’ve been misdirected and could be deradicalized, but its up to Bell’s Hells to decide if they’re willing to forgive the harm they’ve been put through or attempt the effort to deradicalize.

I don’t think it makes any sense to say that questioning the gods makes one akin to Ludinus. Theres a lot to question about the gods. Where did they come from? What even is divinity? How much of their exandrian creation story can we actually believe if they’ve supposedly been hiding the existence of predathos from us? How do we actually know what predathos is? If a mortal can become a god then what the hell even is a god? Etc.

I hope this goes without saying, but just in case: If you don’t want to empathize with real life hate groups please don’t. This is a fictional cult based in the idea that they can release a predator that will get rid of the gods. I don’t see the ruby vanguard as a hate group, a horrible cult that has done vile things and led to the deaths of innocents absolutely, but I hate groups are hateful towards one or many marginalized groups, and thats not this. (I suppose one could argue they’re a hate group for the gods and… sure. I disagree but sure). To me, empathy for the members in the vanguard makes sense in the context of the story Matt is telling, but in real life it is very hard to have empathy for hate groups even if they are formed of traumatized and hurt people who could be deradicalized. I believe deradicalization is necessary for many but fucking hard/impossible for all, and I especially believe that members of marginalized groups shouldn’t feel the need or pressure to help in the deradicalization of those who harm them.

Similarly I believe Orym is valid in his decision to be at war with members of the group that killed his family. Yes I think he is unable to be objective (Liam O’Brien said so himself), but, as a person with ptsd myself, sometimes you need to screw objectivity in the face of trauma. I think we as the audience should be aware that he has lost objectivity so we can better understand his actions, but I don’t think that lack of objectivity makes his choices “wrong”, and its strange to see people claiming that anyone pointing out Orym’s lack of objectivity doesn’t have empathy or morals.)

Anyway this was too long and I should never get involved in discourse again.

[edenmemes]

overwatch 2 starters

more to be added !

❝ umm...you need aim training. ❞   ❝ if we do this right, they won’t even know what happened. ❞   ❝ can’t change the world by following all the rules. ❞   ❝ somebody has to stand up for the people. ❞   ❝ i’ll find my own path. ❞   ❝ if anybody asks, i was never here. ❞ ❝ seeking progress by sowing chaos is like planting a tree in a volcano. ❞ ❝ i was born to rule. ❞ ❝ do you remember that night? dancing until dawn. ❞ ❝ you have an intense gaze. ❞ ❝ when i look at you, i see pure unadulterated chaos. ❞   ❝ someone has to do the dirty work. ❞   ❝ you’re too good with that gun to waste it on a life of crime. ❞ ❝ i’ve taken naps harder than you. ❞ ❝ why seek answers when we do not know the question? ❞ ❝ i warned you. should have listened. ❞ ❝ i could not bear being the man they’d made of me. ❞ ❝ there’ll be consequences for that. ❞ ❝ forgive me. my mind has been...turbulent, lately. ❞ ❝ you’re either braver or dumber than you look to come back here. ❞ ❝ here’s the plan: do what i do, listen to what i say, and don’t screw this up. ❞   ❝ you remind me of myself when i was younger. ❞   ❝ licked my wounds. let’s go. ❞ ❝ honor is all i have left. ❞ ❝ i have a feeling we’re going to get along. ❞ ❝ i expect better from you. ❞ ❝ i don’t want to talk about it. ❞ ❝ you count on me, i count on you. ❞ ❝ you only lose if you stay down. ❞ ❝ dark clouds gather on the horizon. a storm is coming. ❞ ❝ eh...i’ve got plenty of teeth left. ❞ ❝ we can still be friends, right? ❞ ❝ look at the state of the world. something has to change. ❞   ❝ i’m just getting started. ❞   ❝ you know better than to turn your back on me. ❞ ❝ heh, did i scare you? ❞ ❝ if they won’t quit, neither will i. ❞ ❝ make sure you’re ready. who knows what we’ll find out there. ❞ ❝ talk to the hand. ❞ ❝ i’ve done things i’m not proud of. time to start making up for it. ❞   ❝ i love a good brawl. ❞   ❝ hm...why does this place feel familiar? ❞ ❝ don’t you ever wanna settle down? ❞   ❝ you can’t escape death. ❞   ❝ watch your step. it’s a long way down. ❞ ❝ meh, that party was boring. ❞ ❝ what’s right isn’t always legal. ❞ ❝ you know better than to show your face around here. ❞ ❝ my throne is where i say it is. ❞   ❝ i do not cower in the presence of evil. ❞ ❝ you’re not on my level. ❞   ❝ a friend told me that you’re getting rusty. ❞ ❝ i'm trying. please, be patient with me. ❞ ❝ did you eat the last slice of pie? i was saving it for later. ❞ ❝ i craft my own arrows. each one. ❞   ❝ pain means you’re alive! until it doesn’t. ❞   ❝ every time i need a laugh, i look at your search history. ❞   ❝ looks like somebody wants the death penalty. ❞ ❝ i don’t give up that easily. ❞   ❝ anger made you stronger. ❞ ❝ if you screw this up, i’ll kill you myself. ❞ ❝ someone always cares. you must simply seek them out. ❞ ❝ you are spending your life walking a lonely road. ❞ ❝ must you be so relaxed? we depend on you! ❞ ❝ try not to look too relieved. ❞   ❝ it is not unlike you to disappear without warning. ❞ ❝ you were being rude. ❞   ❝ you know, anger management classes might help you with that temper. ❞ ❝ what seems like magic is sometimes science we don’t yet understand. ❞ ❝ yes, let’s discuss morality. and hypocrisy while we’re at it. ❞ ❝ dead weight gets left behind. ❞ ❝ i still feel that final blow from yesterday’s training. ❞ ❝ i have always been bound to my duty. now, i have nothing. ❞ ❝ you care too much about how your family perceives you. ❞ ❝ you know i’m not going to tell you. ❞ ❝ clear head. sharp eyes. ❞ ❝ are you planning to whine the whole time...again? ❞ ❝ it was not easy, living in your shadow. ❞ ❝ do you know what happened to the last man i trusted? ❞ ❝ you’re less handsome when you talk. ❞ ❝ such confidence! let’s hope it’s not unfounded. ❞ ❝ do not speak to me unless you wish to lose an eye. ❞ ❝ everything’s a game to you. ❞ ❝ you stand for everything wrong in this world. ❞ ❝ i’m the best. that’s all you need to know. ❞ ❝ you were truly fearsome in your prime. ❞ ❝ you’ve been distant lately. ❞ ❝ one day, you’ll pay for all the crimes you’ve committed. ❞ ❝ working with you has always made me sick. ❞ ❝ ooh...is the little birdie finally leaving her cage? ❞ ❝ it’s called personal space. ❞   ❝ same saccharine tongue, same empty head. ❞ ❝ i assure you, we are nothing alike. ❞ ❝ something smells foul. is it you? ❞ ❝ quit being so humble. nothing work with being proud of your work. ❞ ❝ all you need for battle is your heart and your head. ❞ ❝ plan to win, or expect to lose. ❞ ❝ how can you live with yourself? so many people have died because of you. ❞ ❝ i’ll be watching your back out there. ❞ ❝ you’re cuter up close. ❞ ❝ i don’t need your pity. ❞ ❝ there’s no easy way to say this: i read your poetry folder. ❞ ❝ yeah, we’re gonna need reinforcements. ❞   ❝ i never miss my mark. ❞   ❝ i gave you a chance, and you wasted it. ❞ ❝ i’ve always liked being the underdog. ❞ ❝ we could have had a beautiful partnership... ❞ ❝ any words of wisdom before the battle starts? ❞ ❝ don’t be so hard on yourself. ❞ ❝ didn’t i say i’d rip your tongue out if i ever saw you again? ❞ ❝ true tacticians do not plan. they act and force others to react. ❞ ❝ i’m not giving up on you. ❞ ❝ your voice, ever sonorous, is like a gentle waterfall upon my ears. ❞ ❝ rage is your weakness. ❞ ❝ just looking for something we might have in common... ❞ ❝ you’ll feel that one tomorrow. ❞   ❝ the path shapes you. the spirits perfect you. ❞   ❝ i’m not relaxed. i just make everything look easy. ❞ ❝ you have an admirable peace about you. ❞ ❝ do you hear yourself? ugh, you’re the worst. ❞ ❝ pondering anything unusual? dangerous? ❞ ❝ flattery will get you the grave. ❞ ❝ ain’t easy, is it? being in charge of killers and madmen. ❞ ❝ there is nothing to that name but pain. ❞ ❝ your weapons are impressive, but you lack the strength to wield them. ❞

[nevis-the-skeleton]

Black Bird Fazbear Fright : Why it's a bad representation of school harassment

Hello everyone, today we are going to talk about one of the Fnaf Fazbear Fright stories: Black Bird. Well, I would like to warn you, I didn't read the story, because it is not available in my country, but I saw Dawko's summary, and I documented myself as best I could to have the best vision as clear as possible. And, from what I've seen, this story is frankly… Not bad, but it has a very bad moral! Not about apologizing and forgiving, but about the representation that is made of school bullying.

For the summary, a boy named Noel, who has harassed a girl in the past is pursued by a demon bird who haunts him and plunges him into the guilt of his actions, and the only way he has to escape release it and apologize to those to whom he has harmed. Well, that's a very rough summary, but it's so that those who haven't read the story can follow, because I think it's important that as many people as possible know what's wrong with this story.

Bullying is bad, yes I know I'm not learning you something, but apparently the author doesn't think so, or presented it in a very bad way! First, when Noel tells his friend Sam that he bullied a girl, he laughs about it, and it's only because Sam tells him that it's not funny that he questions himself a little. Come on, I can understand that, if he wasn't aware that what he did was wrong, why not. But, I think that from the moment you put a dead mole in someone's locker, it's not to make them laugh! It’s clearly meant to do harm!

Already, this point prevents me from becoming attached to Noel, but even then it is not that problematic, as long as the character questions himself, which he seems to do. The problem is how he questions himself, why he does it. Basically, he's being chased by Black Bird and his girlfriend is telling him that he should apologize to the girl he bullied. He says he's going to do it, but the second Black Bird is absent, he withdraws, like: "oh come on, I'll check that he's really there, because frankly I don't want to apologize." He didn't say it like that, but that's really how I felt it.

And it’s only because Black Bird comes back that he decides to apologize to Christine! Man, you can't be more selfish! He only apologizes for his own well-being, because he is afraid for his life! If my bully came back to me, with someone holding a knife to his throat, and forced him to apologize, I would not consider his apology valid. Since he's fucking threatening imminent death! So that’s already a very big negative point, but it’s not the worst!

When Noel goes to Christine, who seems to be doing very well (she is in good health, she has lots of friends and everything), she does not recognize him. Like, bruh, no actually! That's not how it works! A bullied person generally doesn't forget their bully, and certainly not the one who called her fat and shoved dead f*cking moles into her locker! This is basically not possible! But it's not just that, and honestly that's what triggers me the most, she thanks him for bullying her, because it made her stronger, opened her eyes, and allowed her to get better.

…

Really, I don't have the words… What kind of bullshit is this? What kind of morality is that?! What it teaches the reader, indirectly, is: “Bullying is good, it allows people to improve!”, “Come on, tell this shy kid that he’s fat and ugly, so he’ll start playing sports and take care of his health!” NO! NO! and NO! Sorry, but I'm angry right now! There is nothing more destructive than school bullying! This shit kills people every year, it doesn't help anyone, and it certainly doesn't make you better! It's not a funny thing, it's not a joke! This is truly the worst moral I have ever seen in a story!

Remember one thing: apologizing is good, forgiving is liberating, but bullying is the worst creation of humanity. That's all I have to say about this story, I'm sure some will disagree with my opinion, but I really needed to get this out of my mind.

[safety-pin-punk]

im curious, how does being punk affect your feeling of religion? are you still a practicing catholic/go to church?

Hahahahahaha oh boy, buckle in cause this is gonna be a fun ride. I’ll put a cut cause this is gonna be long simply due to the amount of context that is needed to understand how I’ve managed to mash these two things together in my life. I hope this answers your question anon! (And thank you for asking nicely, that usually isn’t the reaction I get).

So, for reference, I am Catholic born and raised. My mom is Catholic, my dad is only recently exploring being religious. My brother has remained a Catholic good boy throughout his life, my sister has denounced religion. I’m somewhere between them. I don’t go to church often, but I still feel at home there when I do (most of the time). So technically, I’m not a ‘Practicing Catholic’ because of that, but I’m following my faith to the best of my ability (explained below).

I 100% believe there is a god, and because of that my faith has had some rough intersections with other parts of my life, such as being punk, the communities Im a part of, and being heavily involved in STEM. And those are things that took me years to figure out for myself. When just looking at being punk though, I think where it really clicked that punk wasn’t against my religion, but actually supports it, was in my freshman year of college. Like I’ve said before, I go to a Protestant school so every class has to somehow have at least one connection to religion (as a chemistry major this can get extremely annoying). But that year, I had a history class as a gen ed, Western Civ to 1450, and an absolutely kick ass professor to go with it. 

This class was the game changer for 18 year old me (oh my god that was 5 years ago). We spent a lot of time in this class talking about religions of ancient civilizations, and of course we talked about Christianity. And this man went absolutely feral. He was the man that introduced me to the concept of ‘Jesus was a punk’. And when you ignore all the random bull shit that comes out of people’s mouths at church and just look at the bible... yeah, he was right. Jesus flipped tables, he ate with societal outcasts like prostitutes and the homeless, and god did he hate the Roman government that controlled so much of the world at that time. 

And I think that’s when I really felt free to embrace the punk culture. The one thing that was holding me back was gone. I also later learned that professor had a metal band (I’m now going to have to try to find his youtube again lol - its been years). 

But yeah, being punk and religious in 2022 is hard. Its hard because the people who claim to be Christians are ignorant, refuse to learn, don’t know the context of the book they call holy, refuse to understand where Christianity stems from and our roots in Judaism, and keep trying to interpret the bible in a modern world (the bible can’t tell you shit about the evils of the internet man). I don’t particularly like going to church because I often find that its a snake pit disguised as a hospital. Though, that’s nothing new, if you ever take the time to read Romans (my favorite part of the bible), its full of Paul just absolutely loosing his ever loving shit because of how corrupt the churches are. 

So instead of going to church once every seven days and conforming to the rest of the vipers there, I try to live my life by Jesus’ standards for interacting with others. Be kind and forgiving, try to understand other points of view, don’t discriminate based on job, color, socioeconomic status, gender, how many kids, ect. Moral of the story, in my opinion, to be a good Christian, you need to treat people as people, and welcome them with open arms. You need to give back to your community. You need to fight for a better world. You need to push back against oppressive and authoritarian governments. And those are all punk values as well.

[septembersghost]

I've been thinking about this all month, but one of my good friends dated this guy for a while who is such trash, he was into edgelord shit, racist, sexist, homophobic, real weird about 2A, I hated him. My friend is a kind, accepting person, his values didn't align with hers at all. So everyone was like what the fuck are you doing, but she thought he was nice deep down or something. I couldn't talk to her for about a month. She only dated him for six weeks or so and then woke up and realized how gross it was. I was questioning everything I knew about her as a person but in the end it was a terrible lapse in judgement and I forgave her and everybody moved on. this feels so similar on a worldwide level.

tl;dr fan commentary is hard and it felt like there was a demand to prove we didn't condone the things he's done, but I think you did your very best supporting people and speaking out while still trying to hold sympathy for Taylor, and she means so much to you that there is nothing wrong with forgiving this and moving on and loving her and her music like you do.

one of my friends told me a similar story about someone they love who was involved with someone completely terrible for a while, and how difficult it was, i think this is a more common experience than we'd like. and people are flawed and sometimes they make bad decisions and mistakes, including good people. i'm sorry you went through that, i'm sure it was really hard, and i'm glad it turned out okay in the end.

thank you ❤ yeah, i think it's been difficult because what started as understandable disappointment/anger/concern and very valid criticism and feelings of hurt, and where we were trying to support and amplify one another, turned into a vicious cycle of outright hatred fueled by outrage and blame and purity culture (the people viciously slut shaming, the comments claiming she's insincere/calculated/manipulative/untalented/narcissistic/evil etc etc and blaming her for his actions and statements had gotten way out of control. holding someone accountable doesn't equate to utterly dehumanizing them), and then at the same time fans were harassing and attacking one another for speaking up or for not reacting "correctly" or for having empathy for both people impacted and for taylor herself. it's just been a mess! and it's been excruciating and stressful and sad for me personally and sort of broke me a bit because i'm just...overly sensitive lol and trying to sort through my own hurt and disappointment mixed with being overloaded by negativity on here and feeling so much for everyone who came to me in pain, and then also selfishly missing her and my connection to her music because the weight put on all of this forced me to take a self-protective distance...shambles!

anyway, as i also said to my friend earlier, the problem happening online right now is there's this intense focus on punishment in almost puritanical religious terms - repent, do penance, take your lashes for loving anything especially if it's deemed "problematic"! - but without room for growth, forgiveness/redemption, and salvation. and like...if we're having to think about it like that, the penance means NOTHING without room for forgiveness. requiring trials and proof of upstanding morality becomes a vicious cycle at some point, which does NOT mean we should tolerate bigoted behavior or harmful actions or not be critical ever, it's more about measuring that and channeling it for more than futile outrage and lashing out at each other. the solace and joy we find in art is WHY that love exists, that's paramount, and what we can do after supporting one another is fostering that love and growth in a more positive way. so i hope moving forward this is a learning experience for all of us (myself included!) and we can be a little gentler on one another/ourselves and remember that ultimately the light at the center of things is why we're together here!

[nascenterror]

My ears had heard of you     but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore I despise myself     and repent in dust and ashes.

I’m only on the second book of Samuel but I skipped a head to skim the book of Job. I keep seeing tiktoks about it and ones that remind me of it. If you don’t know the Book of Job it’s one of the shorter books and it’s all about this dude Job who God brags to Satan about. 

“Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” Satan counters with:  “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

Which is pretty typical and what I expected but I didn’t expect the poems of back and forth between Job and his friends. And then Job and God??? This is the part I glazed over the most but I got the sense that Job’s friends wanted him to admit his misfortune was due to some sin and that he must think they were dumb if he could get one over on them and God. Job stood ten toes down and is pretty hurt they think he’s lying. Then he eventually gives up talking to his friends and starts talking to God. He asks what he’s done wrong and laments that evil people aren’t punished, among other things, but doesn't yield on his faith. Cool if you know the story from bible study that’s pretty much the end but God responds… and he’s mad and he’s like well since you have all the answers and can hook a Leviathan by the nose( what I assume is a metaphor for being able to understand God) when you must be the critic with all the answers. 

But in my skimming I didn’t realize Job apologizes. Asks for forgiveness. This guy did though. It happens at the very end after God is done questioning Job:

3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’     Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,     things too wonderful for me to know. 4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;     I will question you,     and you shall answer me.’ 5 My ears had heard of you     but now my eyes have seen you. 6 Therefore I despise myself     and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:3-6

Which is the first part I was shocked by and my guess is he was apologizing 1) because I bet God screaming in your face is scary and 2) pride. In the biblical sense, thinking he could question what God was up to and his actions was super prideful. Besides the Bible mentioning again and again to not assume you know what should be going on(Proverbs 3:5).

But then God turns around to his friends and goes “welp now you better prepare some sacrifices and hope Job prays for you because honestly your takes were completely inaccurate”(Job 42:7). And I was like oh… OH. 

And no one gets punished (besides the yelling ig lol) and Job gets all his stuff back. But this tiktok brought me back to it because I bet Job looked insane when he decided in the middle of this argument with his friends, he was just gonna go to the source. And the structure of the book… the fact that God’s words don’t come directly after Job’s, but another guy (who steps in in anger) makes me believe God was talking to all of them in his section. But seems to be directly addressing Job(maybe because Job took the time to directly address him). Maybe the whole thing ‘was just don’t question me and my operation again and we’re cool because your human brain can’t nail me down.’ Which is an interesting moral but I guess that’s why they tell you in Sunday school the whole thing is about faith. Job was the only one who spoke accurately about God.

[ar-n-bincula]

Moral Lessons of the Story “Sinigang” by Marie Aubrey J. Villaceran

1. Everyone makes mistakes, but it is not an excuse. Not everyone is perfect - all of in fact - but if we make mistakes we should hold our selves accountable even if others won’t because how are we to learn from them if we keep justifying them as us, humans just being imperfect? Don’t make being human an excuse and rather ask for forgiveness and do what can to make up for it.

2. You may or may not be forgiven for your mistakes. That is up to whoever got wronged. The guilt, pain, or regret we may feel because of our mistake may cause us to suffer but do not demand or expect them to forgive you just because you said sorry. It is up to you now to learn from those mistakes and to not do it again.

3. The only way is forward, I agree that hanging on to the past will only keep us down, but unlike many people, I disagree that the only way forward to a peaceful life is forgiveness. Yes, there are times it is that way but not for every situation. Just as shown by Liza in the story, she continues to cook and help her Tita Loleng despite her questions and the dish bringing up painful memories of her father and his mistress. She is already going forward by simply facing those memories and accepting what’s done is done. Her father had asked for forgiveness, and we do not know what she said after, and we know her smile to him will never be the same. But the fact that she chose to smile – she could’ve very well just ignored or glared at him - despite the pain, is already a start to a peaceful life that had been broken. We can only have a peaceful life if we choose to have one, not because we forgave a mistake. Life is full of mistakes, and it’s bound that we will face one after another. We either forgive, forget, or simply accept what’s done is done; whatever choice we make as long as we don’t feel forced to do so, then it will make your life peaceful.

4. Be faithful and never stray. We can appreciate someone’s looks and all – being in a relationship won’t suddenly make us blind - but don’t ever think of hurting your loved one because of a passing face. I have never been in a relationship myself - but have felt attraction just like any other person – but if I did choose to in one, I wouldn’t stray no matter how tempting it is because I chose to stay with that person then I will stay or leave but will not chose to hurt them when we are in a relationship. So if I, a mere student of age 17, can think and see how bad cheating is, how can a man with already a wife and daughter not think that?

5. Love is choice and ‘mistakes’ are not without consequences. The kind of person we love, who we trust, and who we fall in love with is our choice. Liza’s father chose another woman over his own wife whom he vowed to spend his life with. That was not a mistake, it was his choice to do so, and with it, he broke the love he had with his wife and also with his daughter that can never be mended back like it was before.

6. It is okay to take a break, talk about your problems, and escape from them even just for a little while. In the story, Liza is helping her Tita Loleng to cook sinigang. Through her talk with her Tita and almost smashing the tomatoes to a pulp, I can imagine it helped release some of the pent-up anger and hurt. I’ve read an analogy somewhere talking about how we are just like a bottle and emotions are the water that fills us up; sometimes, we should let the water flow out because if we don’t and keep the bottle screwed shut, the bottle would have no choice but to explode. It is better to slowly let the pent up emotions go because if bottle it up until we can no longer take it, we might do stupid, dangerous, or irrational things that might hurt us even more.

Impact of the story: As a student studying the 21st Century Literature – having read the story, understanding and interpreting what I have learned from the story – I can say that it impacted me by strengthening my belief of how wrong cheating is and if I will be in a relationship, I will never do it. It shows the consequences and hurt that affect children because of their parent’s infidelity. The story captured my imagination and made me feel sympathy to Liza, which shows howwell-written the story is. The story also showed me how to keep the balance between the present story and flashbacks, which will help me in writing my own stories if I am want to or when I am required to.

[clemsimunch]

*THE LAST OF US PART 1 & 2 SPOILERS*

I got the game when I was 13. I received it for free with the ps3 I had just bought. This was my first non Nintendo console, so I was stepping into an entire new world and gender of games.

Being that young and that inexperienced with shooting games or even realistic games, I didn't get far. I remember being too scared to attack my first clickers and turning off the game.

To this day, it resides on my shelf along with a couple of kingdom hearts games and beyond two souls that I only finished thru letting my friends play it for me.

Now we're in 2023, and everyone on the Internet is talking about the HBO show, so by pure curiosity of all the hype, I decided to watch episodes 1 & 2 with some friends.

I knew the beginning of the game. But revisiting the story now as an adult and confronting the disturbing and frightening sight of the clickers through a mature lense made the experience so much better.

It didn't surprise me that I became obsessed with the game and show, and so, in a very short time, I binged part 1 of the videogame.

The end of part 1 is good, but it leaves you a bit conflicted. What Joel did was morally wrong, but after spending so much time with Ellie and him, you totally understand why he did it. Killing people is never a good action, even if it's to save your daughter. Joel knows this ence why he lies to Ellie about it, but she is smart and knows he is not telling the truth but decides not to question him.

That's how it ends. Them trying to live a normal life in an apocalyptic world. Knowing there's nothing they can do to help.

I didn't want to watch part 2.

Part 1 finished in a satisfying bitter sweet ending with an open ending that led to so many possibilities we could imagine. And I liked to be able to imagine what life Joel and Ellie would live after. How Joel would have to tell her what he did one day and how Ellie would learn to accept his actions and accept that she can't save everyone.

In a way, that's exactly what part 2 did. I just hated the way they did it. (it wasn't poorly done it just broke my heart and stepped on it)

I started part 2 with high hopes and so much love for the father daughter relationship the two main characters had built in the first game. To me that what was the core of the last of us. This found family in the chaos of life.

Of course we can't have nice things.

I had a panick attack as a reaction to Joel's death. The whole scene made me want to throw up, and I was sobbing for hours after the fact.

I had to FORCE myself to continue part 2, and even then, I skipped most of Abbys' story because I couldn't bear it ( I'm weak, ok ). With every memory Joel Ellie presented us with, came the tears of my broken heart.

I'm very sensitive, and when I watch a show, I always feel what the character feels. So I felt like I had gained an amazing father figure, and someone brutally murdered him in front of me to then just remember how the last couple times we interacted weren't the best.

The scene where Joel finally tells Ellie the truth and their very last conversation where Ellie tells him how she doesn't think she'll ever forgive him but she wants to try and you can hear with Joel's broken voice how relieved and happy that made him feel.

Then IT happens, and the rest of the game is Ellie making very questionable choices. I'd even go as far as saying she does way worse than Joel in this game. Joel killed to save his daughter, by necessity. Ellie killed for revenge for her own cause. And that does not lead her to a great path...

Overall, part 1 is a masterpiece, and I have a lot of conflicting feelings about part 2. I dont like how it's just Ellies revenge and not her fighting for a cause or something like they did in the first one (mostly). The second one feels selfish. I guess it makes her human.

Then, there's my brain wanting to find solutions.

1 WISHFULL

Scrap part 2 and just write "they lived happily ever after" after the first part....

2 REASON

The morally right thing that should have been done at the end of part 1 ( not only by Joel but by any other person in that damn hospital ) would have been to wake Ellie up and tell her the situation and let her choose. I'm sure she would have chosen self-sacrifice, and Joel would've been really sad, but he wouldn't kill everyone knowing it was HER choice.

3 LOGIC

Ok, I'm no doctor and I don't claim to be all knowing so if I say anything totally wrong please correct me but, at least in the HBO series, they tell us AGAIN AND AGAIN that nothing can cure the fungus infection. There's no medicine. No vaccine. EXPERTS in the field say so. But then come Ellie, who is immune. I'm gonna take a guess here and say she got a mutated dna gene that made her immune. That's my guess. Then this doctor comes here and tells Marlene he can make a vaccine.... last I check, you can't really alter the gene of an already entirely made person. You can't change your blond hair gene to black etc etc. Soooo how exactly would they have done it ? This is not a bacteria it takes control of you. You can't really fight it. The only "cure" I see is just Ellie passing her genes thru her children. That's how humanity is probably the only way TLOU humanity would survive. Survival of the fittest. Only the ones with the mutated immune gene would survive. Yes, that means you can't heal or prevent the people not immune from getting sick, but that's the whole point.

Again I'm no doctor but my logical brain is convinced of this HC and just thinks Joel's action or Ellie non sacrifice or whatever. There was no cure. There never was they never will be so they should not feels guilty of not "saving the world" I know only Ellie has that issue ( but she is the only one alive in the end sooooo) but I wish she could know that her surviving didn't doom the humans more than they already were.

Overall, TLOU is a beautiful story about what it is to be human in the worst conditions, but I think I'll only watch season 1 for my own mental health. Part 2 did give me 2 fully blown panick attacks, and I dont think I can watch Bella scream at Pedro being beaten to death in HD without going thru another one.

[thesoulesscollection]

Ruby For Your Thoughts? (Request)

Request: I have a request: At the end of Pure Blooded Thief, Henry brings the Romanian Ruby to Galeforce and Charles. Turns out he didn't go rouge, he just thought recovering the stolen Romanian Ruby from the Airship would be good evidence against the Toppat Clan.

I kept this one relatively simple so I hope you all don't mind that. It's just involving Henry and Galeforce's Pov since I don't see them interact enough in the fandom. 

As well, some light sprinkling of morally gray Galeforce down below if you can classify him as that here? 

Galeforce looked up and down at the ruby then over at Henry, confusion written on his aged features, "This. Uh… Why would you go through all this to just give us this?"

As the General took a final glance at the Romanian Ruby he shook his head and appeared as if a disappointed parent.  

"This will help us, yes, as evidence against the Toppat clan" Galeforce went to explain, running his hand through his long, grey beard, "Doing this was most certainly the long way around though? I must admit wouldn't it have been easier for everyone involved if you did just what was asked of you?"

Flicking his grey eyes towards the thief in question, Galeforce achingly straightened his posture thankful that nobody was here to witness the conversation between the men. 

"I. I know… I might've panicked back there. Kinda? It's hard to explain it" Henry guiltily responded, immediately looking off from the stern expression on the older man's face. 

"You panicked? That's quite hard to believe. You seemed just fine when I saw you" 

"Okay. Maybe panicked isn't the right word to describe it, alright. I saw the Romanian Ruby and I wanted it. So desperately, I couldn't help myself"

Henry rolls his head resulting in his sore joints loudly popping as he fiddles with his jacket's zipper, "I'm trying to make up for it. I didn't bring the ruby alone. I got the files you were looking for at the last moment. To make up for it" 

Guilt was eating Henry up slowly like a greedy parasite. It didn't help either that the General remained distantly cold with him, likely not trusting a single word he had to say. A topic change might help in the long run.

"Um. How's uh, Charlie doing? Whatever his name was… He seemed like a cool guy?" 

Or to make it worse, Henry was openly cringing when forced to witness the elder stiffening, tight-lipped frown deepen and seemingly gritting his teeth. 

"Charles Calvin. He's doing fine" Galeforce murmured in a low deadpan. "Now let's get back to the topic at hand, Stickmin. You came crawling back expecting us. Me or anyone else to take you back in without question? I do sincerely hope you know that I'm not going to give you a pardon so easily this time" 

Sliding down in his seat slightly, the thief nodded in understanding since he wasn't expecting much. He was simply surprised they didn't shoot him down at first sight and that General Galeforce would allow him to even speak.

"I get it. I really do. I don't enjoy what I do. Only asking for you to give me another chance. I'll prove it to you in any way I can" 

"Good. I'm usually not a very forgiving man on these sorts of things. More when it comes with criminals like yourself. You're cunning and likely to backstab to get what you desire. I wouldn't want that to happen again. Horrible and tragic things tend to happen then. Unless, Stickmin, you would like to face those consequences head on, wouldn't you? It's what you do best in?" 

Planting a hand on Henry's slumped shoulder, the man in question didn't bother to argue back as Galeforce patted it a few times after his mild threat, "Nobody would ever suspect a thing? You can disappear without a trace. I can make it happen with a snap of my fingers" 

"... I'm sorry…" 

"Don't worry. No apology is necessary. You can make it up to us. With a little hard work and groveling, we may be gracious enough to give you that pardon, after all"

"Thank you, sir" 

Afterwards stepping back to his desk, Galeforce shooed the man out from his tent giving him the privacy he wanted all before the other's sudden arrival had sidetracked everything. When he was alone with his muddled thoughts among the incriminating paperwork needing to be looked through now, the General shook the minuscule bits of pity that were rarely shown for the thief. It will take hell freezing over for him to ever completely trust Henry but he's willing to at least try for everyone's sake, Charles' in particular. 

[traumasurvivorshelpingsurvivors]

TW : child abuse, abuse/mistreatment from an older sibling, child neglect

So I'm seeking some advice about the relationship I have with my brother. I'm 6 years older than him, and I believe I was a golden child and him the scapegoat for some time, but in details it's more complicated.

Before he was born, I was a scapegat as well as a golden child. Then, as young as 3 he started getting very upset (we're both neurodivergent and our needs were never accomodated as children).

As a result, my parents picked him as a scapegoat. I was getting good grades by masking all the time and burning myself out, while he had a harder time and angry/frustrated. I don't want to say "aggressive" because really it was just a result of child neglect.

I often deflected the blame on him for not doing chores, we never really knew who forgot but it didnt matter because even i was never working hard enough in their eyes. I remember directing a lot of my suffering towards him, and I didn't know how to connect with him.

But things are different now. When I was at my breaking point, i had to embrace my transness, and I came out to him, he came out to me. I think this completely redirected the dynamic because I was no longer the "perfect child", and we were not at war with each other anymore.

Since then, I believe we both became scapegoats, even though I remain a golden child when my parents feel like flaunting my successes.

He's 14 now and I'm turning 20 this year. We have improved a lot and though I didn't mention it explicitely, I did apologize multiple times. We are very close and I do my very best to help him through this difficult situation. I want to make sure that he feels like he can open up to me when he needs, and that as the younger, more vulnerable sibling, his needs should be centered.

But I'm still wondering if there's something else I should do. I don't care about forgiveness in itself, it's more that I want to make things right, and I was Not raised to know what it means. Do you have any advice?

Hey there nonny! We really appreciate the ask, and sorry for the wait!

There are a few things I want to touch on before answering your primary question, but I promise I'll get there.

First, you have to remember that you are/were just as much a victim of neglect as he is/was. You're not willing to blame him or call him "aggressive" because it was "just a result of the neglect," but you are willing to blame yourself when your behavior was just as much due to the neglect in your home. You were a child. Trust me when I say that all siblings throw things on their other siblings sometimes, especially when they're afraid of their parents or what might happen if they take the blame. As a child, your sense of reason and morality aren't as developed, and it's less of a "I know and understand that I am giving him the consequences of my actions, and that's fine with me as long as I don't have to face them" and more of a "I can't make them mad at me I didn't do it" scenario. You didn't hurt him intentionally, you inadvertently hurt him while trying to keep your parents from hurting you, which sounds like exactly what he was doing when he was being "aggressive." If you're going to extend him the courtesy of not having to take the blame or accountability for the way he acted under his parents' abuse, then why aren't you doing it to yourself?

Second, it is not your fault that your parents decided to pick on him a little more than you. It is not your responsibility to apologise for their choices, for their actions, for you getting good grades. Your success is not responsible for his pain. Your parents' choices and actions are, and they had every opportunity not to make them, regardless of your success or his supposed lack of it. It is not on you to make up for their failures as parents.

Lastly, you seem to be doing well with him now that you have the mental acuity to recognise the abuse in your home, and the repercussions of it. As a child, you may have pointed some blame at him, but that's not something you should hang onto and feel guilty over. You were both children, siblings, it happens. As someone with six siblings I can tell you that the blame game goes on in all families, and especially in abusive households, it's just a way to avoid getting yourself hurt. Being this stuck on something and blaming yourself for it isn't healthy for you, nonny. Things like that shouldn't be a life-debt. Now, supporting him because you just want to see him succeed is different, and is absolutely a positive thing. You're supporting him well, nonny, and it's still not your job to parent him. You don't need to "make it right," all you need to do it be his sibling. Just be there for him, love him, support him, guide or comfort him when he needs it, but remember to look after yourself too. And try to do it simply because you love him and want what's best for him, not because of misguided guilt. That's just painful for the both of you and will eventually make you feel stressed, inadequate, and bad about your relationship with him.

I hope this helps nonny

~Mod Night

[stardustprompts]

the poppy war - r.f kuang   sentence starters change tenses/pronouns as needed !!  some lines have been edited for clarity / length / ease of roleplaying tw :   drugs , death , murder , nsfw , prostitution mention , language

‘take off your clothes.’

‘why would anyone drug themselves before a test?’

‘you’re about to be a very lucky girl, sweet.’

‘wow that’s great. really great. Terrific.’

‘your folks are assholes.’

‘well fuck the heavenly order of things.’

‘don’t you have actual responsibilities?’

‘I don’t want to get on _____ ‘s bad side.’

‘you would make a terrible prostitute. no charm.’

‘what is so wrong with getting married?’

‘do you want to die?’

‘everything is spilling out of my head as quickly as I put it in.’

‘please do not commit spousal homicide.’

‘give me a way out of this shithole.’

‘hello, I’m praying.’

‘I seduced him with my nubile young body. you caught me.’

‘you can’t scare me into a confession, because I’m telling the truth.’

‘and that means you’re shit at your job.’

‘if you cross them—- if they even think you’ve looked at them funny—- they can and will hurt you.’

‘it’s easy to lose a language when you never speak it.’

‘you’re offending them with your very presence.’

‘they’ll make you an outsider, because you’re not like them.’

‘no matter what they say, you deserve to be here.’

‘I’ll kill you. I will fucking kill you.’

‘I went out in the sun once. you should try it sometime.’

‘oh, you’re the one ____ hates.’

‘you’d be a prick too if your family was both rich and attractive.’

‘honestly? I think he just comes in here to get high.’

‘I think you’re flattering yourself.’

‘unless you’ve got a weapon, don’t aim for the face. the neck’s a better target.’

‘we aren’t here to be sophisticated. we’re here to fuck people up.’

‘this is the only kick you’ll ever need, really. a kick to bring down the most powerful warriors.’

‘power dictates acceptability.’

‘he hasn’t done anything to earn my respect. all he’s done is act high and mighty.’

‘you’re nothing. you shouldn’t even be here.’

‘consider me bullied and intimidated, just let me sleep.’

‘he’s playing with her. he’ll end it soon.’

‘they’re good at fighting, but not much else.’

‘spend a lot of time looking at ____’s eyes do you?’

‘a betrayal of that sort would not have been out of character.’

‘come on, you belong here too.’

‘they’re not going to get rid of me like this. not this easily.’

‘I’m calm! I’m extremely calm!’

‘you’d rather kill your own people than let the opponent’s army walk away?’

‘you don’t let an enemy walk away if they’ll certainly be a threat to you later.’

‘he can’t stop raving about you.’

‘oh, don’t pretend to be bashful. you love it.’

‘you’re a walking disaster.’

‘anyone this obstinate deserves some attention, if only to make sure you don’t become a walking hazard to everyone around you.’

‘I heard he got drunk on rice wine last week and pissed into ____’s window. he sounds awesome.’

‘it’s me, your favorite person in the whole wide world.’

‘I do not have a problem. you are making up this problem for reasons unbeknownst to me.’

‘you’re killing the mood.’

‘they were weak as shit. scrawnier than you, even.’

‘you’re a real asshole. you know that right?’

‘your state of mind is just as important as the state of your body.’

‘sometimes you must loose the string to let the arrow fly.’

‘because I want to break his stupid face.’

‘he’s the most dangerous when he’s desperate.’

‘from this point on you’re just going to be a danger to yourself and everyone around you.’

‘you’re too reckless. you hold grudges, you cultivate your rage and let it explode, and you’re careless about what you’re taught.’

‘I knew I was the only one that could help him.’

‘they honed his rage like a weapon, instead of teaching him to control it.’

‘one urinating statue for my easily entertained friend.’

‘I don’t believe in gods. but I believe in power.’

‘one might say you’ve been obsessed with ____.’

‘don’t look to your left. pretend you’re taking to me.’ / ‘I am talking to you.’

‘we’re studying very weird things.’

‘I don’t actually know what I’m getting into.’

‘here is what happened: you called a god, and the god answered.’

‘you know that if you don’t get answers now, the hunger will consume you and your mind will crack.’

‘you’ve glimpsed the other side and you can’t rest until you fill in the blanks.’

‘supernatural is a word for anything that doesn’t fit your present understanding of the world.’

‘I’m supposed to take it as true that you’re a god?’

‘I’m not a god. I am a mortal who has woken up, and there is power in awareness.’

‘are we getting high? oh, wow. we’re getting high.’

‘ah. the law. so inconvenient. so irrelevant.’

‘we are not madmen. but how can we convince anyone of this, when the rest of the world believes it so?’

‘the price of power is pain.’

‘I understand the truth of things. I know what it means to exist.’

‘prey do not question the motives of the predator. the dead do not question the living. mortals do not challenge the gods.’

‘I killed for you. I would have done anything for you.’

‘I have seen the end of things. the shape of the world has changed.’

‘war doesn’t determine who’s right. war determines who remains.’

‘it’s alright. I know what you are.’

‘I thought I was the only one left.’

‘we have developed the power to rewrite the fabric of this world. if we don’t use it, then what’s the point?’

‘I don’t mess with that shit. it screws you up.’

‘I understand the appeal, I really do, but I like having my mind to myself.’

‘he’s a charmer. like a new puppy. you think he’s adorable until he pisses on the furniture.’

‘there’s no routine. no discipline. nothing you’re used to. am I right?’

‘so you’re the last of your kind. that’s sad.’

‘If you hold the fate of the country in your hands, if you have accepted your obligation to your people, then your life ceases to be your own.’

‘____ feared, and so he held you back.’

‘great danger is always associated with great power. the difference between the great and the mediocre is that the great are willing to take that risk.’

‘don’t ever let go on that anger. rage gives you power. caution does not.’

‘don’t give in... you’ve been so brave... but it takes more bravery to resist the power.’

‘the nature of this god is to destroy. the nature of this god is to be greedy, to never be satisfied with what he has consumed.’

‘so. screaming at rocks. is that, like, normal behavior here?’

‘fix this. prove your worth. do your fucking job or get out.’

‘I saved your life. doesn’t that make us at least a little square?!’

‘I was scared of you. and I lashed out.’

‘I thought I was better than you, and I’m not. I’m sorry.’

‘when I killed it, it felt like murder.’

‘look, I’m happy to discuss this, really, but I’m currently leaking life out three different wounds and I think I may pass out. would you give me a moment?’

‘well maybe ____ should get his head out of his ass.’

‘ ____ is more fragile than you think.’

‘look, asshole, I don’t need you to tell me what to do.’

‘they say he can read the future. shatter minds.’

‘you misunderstand the nature of our relationship. I am not your friend.’

‘he’s not human. he—- I don’t know what he is.’

‘but ___ was never allowed to be human.’

‘do you trust me?’ / ‘no. but that’s irrelevant.’

‘you don’t know what true suffering is.’

‘I have seen more than my fair share of suffering.’

‘that boy is beyond redemption. that boy is broken like the rest.’

‘I don’t want to be saved! I want power!’

‘that power will destroy everything you’ve ever loved. you will defeat your enemy, and the victory will turn to ashes in your mouth.’

‘we’ve missed something. something’s been laid out for us, but we can’t see it.’

‘fretting won’t make the dead come back to life.’

‘there was nothing human in those eyes.’

‘It was a nightmare, and I couldn’t wake up.’

‘I don’t need your pity. I need you to kill them for me.’

‘whatever it takes. swear it on your life. swear it for me.’

‘I won’t judge him. I don’t dare, because I don’t have the right. and neither do you.’

‘you asked me why I wouldn’t stop him. now you understand. you can’t stop an avenger. you can’t reason with a madman.’

‘I am afraid of what he might do in his quest for vengeance. and I am afraid that he is right.’

‘I am about to do something terrible. and you will have a choice.’

‘they give nothing to the universe, and the universe owes them nothing in return.’

‘you cannot survive my death.’

‘you’re trying to deceive me. you don’t get to deceive me.’

‘this is not the way. this path leads only to darkness.’

‘when are you going to stop being such a damn coward? what are you running from?’

‘you will turn the world to ash, and only demons will live in the rubble.’

‘you dress up your crusade with moral arguments, when in truth you would let millions die if it means you get your so-called justice.’

‘you have not cared about anything for a very long time. you are broken.’

‘I am terrified. but only because I’m starting to remember who I once was. don’t go down that path.’

‘your country is ash. you can’t bring it back with blood.’

‘I’m so sorry. I tried to warn you.’

‘you know the worst part? we’re so close to home.’

‘did you miss me? did you miss this?’

‘I just gave him some of his favorite medicine.’

‘resistance here means suffering. there is no escape. no future.’

‘you have nothing to fight for anymore’

‘what are you defending? you owe ____ nothing.’

‘we were disposable. we were tools. tell me that doesn’t make you furious.’

‘I am sick with fury.’

‘I will die on my feet. I will not die a coward. and neither will you.’

‘we could stay here. we could stay here forever. we wouldn’t have to go back.’

‘you’ll have to live with the consequences. but you’re brave ... you’re the bravest person I’ve ever met.’

‘I have lost everything I care about. I don’t want peace, I want revenge.’

‘I don’t need to sleep. I need to feel nothing.’

‘do you want forgiveness? I can’t give you that.’

‘we avenged him. he’s gone, but avenged.’

‘you have to believe that it was necessary. that it stopped something worse. and even if it wasn’t, it’s the lie we’ll tell ourselves, starting today and every day afterward.’

‘aren’t you supposed to be a seer? do you ever see anything useful?’

‘we have an enemy whom we love.’

‘I’m going to find and kill everyone responsible. you cannot stop me.’

‘oh I’m not going to stop you.’

[roger-that-cap]

tolerate it

part 2/2 of cardigan!

so, this is the follow up to my first ever one shot (guess not anymore LMAO) up here! i sincerely hope that you guys like this, because it was like pulling teeth for this one. every now and again i’d find a golden one and smack it in there and hope that one decent line made up for all the others.

natasha romanoff x fem!reader

this was the hardest thing ive ever had to write (simply because there was so much emotion in it and it was hard to reel myself back in just to cast out again) and i had to write a paper on nathaniel hawthorne.

warnings: pretty angsty for me, bittersweet, um- why do i write angst, DRAMATICS hahaha

word count: 4.5k!

would like to remind you that i do not own taylor swift songs! this one borrows a little from tolerate it, the best song on evermore imho (tied with coney island).

You knew that opening the door was going to be a hard part, but what you didn’t prepare for was actually listening to her. You could have stared at her for eternity in silence, just harping on everything good and bad that ever happened between the two of you. You could imagine a thousand different scenarios where the two of you were happy and none of this had occurred, but that wasn’t the case. She didn’t come to you to stare and leave.

“Thank you,” Natasha said, her voice throaty as she took a cautious first step into your space. Your space. It sounded weird, and you knew that it felt weird to her. You two had shared everything for the longest, and now you had your own place to live in. “Thank you for letting me in.”

“You came to talk,” you said, wrapping your arms around yourself protectively, and she didn’t miss the obvious tell of your body language. “I won’t make you waste your time. Say your piece, and then...” you trailed off, both of you knowing full well where you were going with it. 

“Can I just start with the fact that I’m so sorry,” she blurted, and you have her an unamused look as you sat on your couch, and she sat on the edge of it. “And that I don’t know why that happened. I don’t expect for you to ever forgive me, and I don’t forgive myself. I won’t ever forgive myself for hurting you so badly, and having such a lapse in judgement. I’m sorry.”

“What was it that was different?” You asked, the question that had been haunting you for a while now finally escaping your lips. When she gave you a confused look, you stared back at her. “What was so different about whatever happened on the mission?”

You didn’t ask what you did wrong, because you didn’t do anything wrong. It took you weeks to know that, weeks to come to the conclusion, but you knew. It wasn’t anything that you lacked, it was something that Natasha did. Whether it was loyalty, restraint, a moral compass, or even something else, you didn’t think that it was you.

“There was nothing different.”

You were trying to hold it together, but you knew that you were seconds from falling apart right in front of the person who had destroyed you. “You don’t have to lie.”

She made a face. “There wasn’t. There was nothing about her that was better than you, I swear.”

But there was nothing different. There was nothing different in the way that you held her to the way that Abigail did, then. There must have been nothing different in the way that you kissed her in the morning. Nothing special about how you would dance with her on the third of the month simply because you liked the number three. There was nothing special about the way you held her hand and rubbed her back and sometimes sang her to sleep when she needed it. And there was certainly nothing different or special about the way that you let her put her head on your chest, just so that she could hear your heart beating.

Maybe what you did was different or special to you and not to her. And maybe it was time for you to finally realize it, whether it hurt or not.

Your emotions were threatening to come through, and you couldn’t have that happen. “I thought you came to talk. Talking requires truth.”

“I did,” she rushed, and then she sighed and wiped her palms on her thighs. You knew what that was. Of course you knew what she was. That was her being nervous. “I just wanted you to know that I love you, I love you so much, no matter what you choose. I never meant for any of it to happen, and I hate myself for making you feel that way.”

“You knew what happened with the others,” you said, and you knew that she knew that you were talking about the men who used to cheat on you without thinking twice. You saw her wince. “You knew how I felt about dishonesty. You knew how long it took me to be fully trusting of you, and you ruined it for two months of fun?”

“I know I did.”

“Do you know that, Natasha?” You asked, your voice starting to raise a bit. “I trusted you, and then I gave you everything I had. There wasn’t a piece of me that wasn’t for you, don’t you get that? I painted a portrait of us with the best colors I had and you opened the door on me doing the finishing touches and threw black paint over it.”

She was surprised that you were actually allowing yourself to be angry, and that made you even more upset. You were allowed to be pissed. “I’m sorry,” she breathed out, a thin layer of tears in her eyes.

“I did- I had everything lying out on the table for you emotionally. It was wrapped so pretty for you when I helped you through your own stuff, and it waited until you were ready. There wasn’t a thing you didn’t know, not a secret kept from you. And I still can’t believe that you returned me being in love with you, with that.”

“It didn’t mean anything to me. None of it meant anything to me at all, I swear.”

“It meant something to Abigail,” you said, and you saw her flinch. “It meant something to the girl that told you that she loved you. And if I’m not mistaken, you told her the same. So did it really not mean something, or are you an even larger liar than I thought?”

“It didn’t mean anything.” For a spy, she was quite easy to read. Or maybe you just spent so much time knowing her that it was impossible to not know her inside and out. You knew her every movement that she made when she lied, and you knew what she looked like when she was telling the truth. This, this wasn’t it.

And it destroyed you.

“Don’t you understand how that feels? It feels like being cut a thousand times by the fancy blade that you made yourself. It feels like being bitten by your own dog. It feels like being nearly drowned in the oceans that you’ve swam in for forever. We were so close! We were so close that I was sure that we were predestined or some of that cheesy shit, Natasha. I could have sworn that we were meant for each other, but now I know that we were, because the betrayal that you did cut me down into a million pieces. That was something that neither of the others were able to do. That’s something that only you could do, and I trusted you not to do it. I never thought you could do it. I thought that you loved me far too much to pull the shit that you did.

“Maybe I was foolish enough to make the knife right in front of you, but I trusted you to know it was there and not use it against me. And you still stabbed me with it.” Your voice cracked and you could feel warm tears falling into your hand, but you didn’t care. You had to keep going. “How could you see me give and give and give to you, for you, and then tolerate it and go see someone else?”

She was breathing heavily after your rant, like she had spoken the words instead. A singular tear came down her face, and you thanked whoever was sitting above and watching for the crack in her mask. You were begging to see her half as emotional as you, half as hurt by her own actions.

You knew that it was different when you saw her wipe her tear. She never wiped her tears around you. You were the only one who got to see them, but you supposed not even you were allowed to see it anymore.

“I can’t even begin-” her voice cracked, and she cleared her throat. “I can’t even begin to tell you how much I regret what happened.”

“How do you regret-” you pursed your lips and shook your head, closing your eyes for a second as your heart clenched. “How do you regret falling in love with someone?”

“I don’t love her-”

“Do you love me?” You asked.

“More than I love anything else in the entire world.”

“You loved her more if you risked me losing me, Natasha.” You said, and her brows shot up at your conclusion. “You know what would happen if you did that to me and I found out. You knew you would lose me, and you did it anyway. So you two must have had something special. Congrats.”

“No, you’re-”

The temper that you tried to keep in check was bubbling over again, and you realized that there was no checking yourself. “Do you know how long I waited for you and never cheated? Never had sex with anyone else, never went on a date with anyone else? For just as long as you were supposed to! And I managed! So what’s wrong with you?”

“Y/N, I think we should calm down a little. Let’s talk it out for a second.”

“I’ve been talking it out. All by myself, actually, because you’re too afraid to do a damn thing and admit that you fucked up for two months straight.” You closed your eyes again as you felt the hurt come back up. “How do I know it was just that time? How do I know that?”

There was a silence that spoke volumes. “You don’t.”

“And what if we got back together, after all of this?” It was hypothetical, but seeing the hope perk up in her sparked something that you hadn’t felt towards her in forever. Or, you had, it was just smothered by the heat of your fury. “How would I know that you aren’t off pulling the same thing you did earlier?”

“You’d have to trust me.”

“Well, I can’t do that. I literally can’t,” you cried out, putting your head in your hands and shaking you head. It was quiet except for the sounds of your cries, and it was ominous. There was never a quiet moment between you and Natasha, but you were dying out, fizzling away. You already had your Big Bang, now you were creating black holes that would forever remain on opposite sides of the universe. And you both knew it.

“You- you humiliated me,” you shook your head from left to right again, face still hidden. “You had an affair with a younger girl, you did it in front of the people I shared a living space with. You did it shamelessly in front of the people I cooked meals for every day, the people who’s fucking uniforms I ironed! They were my friends too, Natasha, and you humiliated me. You made them keep your dirty secret, did you apologize to them?”

“I haven’t spoken to them much.”

“I had to figure out from Pepper in front of the wedding dress store,” you continued, your throat tightening. “I was there getting the dress that I was going to walk down the aisle in. Everything was perfect, and then you did something that shattered what I thought couldn’t be broken.” You had thought that you and Natasha were rock solid, the hardest stone. You two were diamonds that sparkled and prevailed together, until you learned that you were truly just glass.

She leaned forward, giving you a look that you knew meant honesty. But it was far too late for that, and it wasn’t going to do Natasha much good now. “I wish every second of the day that I didn’t do it, Y/N. Every second of every day.”

Your lips turned into a scowl. “Wishing doesn’t do anything for us. We’re not little kids and we’re not princesses.”

That word, wishing, must have been the one to do her in, because she was sobbing right into her own sleeve, an arm covering her eyes from your sight. Your tears were subsiding, and you watched her with thinly pressed lips. Watching her cry was never pleasant.

“I’m so, so sorry. I can’t- I can’t imagine how you must feel, but I’m so sorry. I don’t know why- I can only apologize to you and beg that you’ll welcome me back to you, where I’m supposed to be.” Your eye twitched as you listened, and told yourself to keep your strength up. “I fucked up. I fucked up so bad, baby, but I know now. I know who I’m meant to be with, and it wasn't her. It’s you, it always has been.”

You knew that. You had always known that. It was a fact, something that had always rang as true as the beating of your own heart. You knew that it was written in the stars for you by some gracious god who decided to reveal what could have been your present and future to you, but you guess the other half of the tale never saw it herself. She knew now, sure. But she learned a little too late for your taste.

“Please, you have to know. You have to know that I didn’t- that I would never do it again.” 

How could you tell someone that their apology wasn’t enough? How could you reject someone when they were at their lowest point? How were you going to find the strength in yourself to turn down the woman that you still very much loved? The one that you thought that you lost to another was right in front of you, begging for a second chance, but was it right for you to give it to her?

But how could she see you at your most vulnerable every day and know that you loved and cared for her with your whole heart and still do what she did? How was she okay with ruining you after all that you had been through? How did she not feel bad for two months about betraying the one person who she knew would be forever in her corner?

Whatever her method was to do things that hurt the people she supposedly loved, she found a way. And so would you.

“Have you said what you needed to?” You asked, your tone slow and deliberate as you fought for your tears not to ruin your words. Just as slowly, she nodded. “Then, please leave.”

A noise left her throat. “Please, wait. Wait.”

“There’s nothing left to say, Nat. We said it all.” You stood up, and she followed. “Fix your relationships at the tower, alright?”

“Don’t,” she muttered, tears streaming down her face. “Please don’t tell me that you don’t want to try and then act like you care about me.”

You both walked to the door, because you knew that I the end she would do what you asked of her. “We were friends first.” You insisted. “We were friends first, Natasha, so I care. So, because we were friends first, I’ll tell you to get better. Work on yourself. Fall in love with someone else. Maybe not with two people at the same time.”

Her face was utterly pitiful. Her eyes were watering in a way you had never seen them do before, and her hands were shaking. You had seen the most of Natasha that anyone had in the entire world, yet you had never seen her so torn apart, so open. She laid it all out for you like you had been doing for her for years, and now you were finally the one to ruin the pretty picture. “Please.” 

As soft as a gentle breeze came your next word. “No.” You yanked your apartment door open, and then you were both shivering. She looked up at you, her face full of an expression of the most shattered you had seen her yet, and the part of you that still ached prayed that it would be the last time you would ever see her at all.

Your body moved on its own. It asked for one more point of contact, just one more before you deprived yourself from the person you loved the most. Your lips pressed against the crown of her head as you told yourself it was for your own good. Your eyes shut as you put your hands on her shoulders, and tears were turning spots of her red hair dark. She was shaking underneath you, crying even harder than you were. You pulled away from her and opened the door wider.

“Wish you all the best, Nat.”

She walked away, off of your porch and into the night. You shut the door.

§§

You figured that you would miss her, but it wasn’t as bad as it was in the early part of leaving. By the time you moved on, it was far past the date of the wedding and even further past your anniversary. Sometimes it still hurt to think about how your life could have been had she chosen to stay faithful, but you learned that the scenarios hurt more than they helped and stopped.

You had a steady job, could keep up with the rent on your apartment, had enough for groceries and even had spare to get your nails done if you wanted to. You were doing it all, and you were doing it well after being attached at the hip to someone else for years and years.

There was a time where you would have thought that living without Natasha would be excruciating. The first night after you stormed out and cried yourself to sleep, you were sure that it would be painful, every night without her next to you would be like a stab in the gut. But after a while, it really wasn’t.

At first, it was. You missed her terribly, and, a part of you still did. You missed the good things that happened, but you realized that the good didn’t erase the bad, and that the bad didn’t erase the good. So, after a long time of thinking about her, your stance on Natasha Romanoff wasn’t hateful, or upset, or vengeful. You barely had one.

You thought about her and saw a book that you had finished reading a long time ago. Impactful at the time you read it, of course, and it could leave a longing imprint, but it was over. You could never relive that exact moment ever again that you read her, not a good one or a bad one. The hardest, most intense part of it was over, so far behind you that you could breathe again. 

And damn, did it feel good to breathe. 

§§§

Seeing her was awkward, and it was something that came straight out of your outdated imagination. You were by yourself buying apples at the market that you always went to because you adored fresh fruit, checking for bruises on them that were never there. You were carrying four in a bag with a content look on your face, just walking around and looking at other fruits and vegetables when you felt someone’s eyes on you. You looked up.

Sam Wilson was looking right at you, his jaw a little slack as he recognized you. You hadn’t seen him since you stormed out of the compound god knows how long ago. Within seconds, your life at the tower and memories with him flashed in your head. You two would cook together side by side often, and that's where you would do most of your bonding and talking with him. Your heart clenched for a moment, and then you raised the hand that wasn’t occupied and gave him a wave and a half smile, one that you hoped told him that you weren’t angry.

You looked back to the vegetables and then at the sign on the table. Damn, that’s kind of expensive. You shrugged your shoulders and put the greens on the weighing machine anyway, and pulled the money out of your purse for it. You smiled at the vendor and left with your new bag, wiggling your eyes at the strawberry table and starting your approach. 

“Hi,” an achingly familiar voice called out while you were steps away from the table of deliciously red strawberries. You could smell them from where you were at. You turned around still, even after easily identifying who the voice belonged to. “How are you?”

She was as beautiful as ever, the top of her head under a blue ball cap and her eyebrows perfectly done. Her eyes were hidden by shades, but you didn’t need to see them to know what she was thinking. Her arms were loose at her sides, but her fingers were moving strangely, and you noticed them immediately as her nervous tick. You took in a deep breath. 

“I’m good, how about you?” You asked Natasha back, and she gave you a pained smile.

“I’m alright.”

“Oh, sweet,” you said, and then gave her a parting smile before turning towards the strawberries.

“Wait,” she called out.

You stopped and turned your head, even though you wanted more than anything to forget that you ran into her. “Yes?”

There was a moment of silence between you two, and then she took a step forward. “Are you still upset?” She asked, voice lower in volume than usual. 

You almost scoffed at her. “I’m an adult, I can’t really be sad for long or I’ll forget to pay a bill or something.”

“Can we talk?” She started, and you held up a hand.

“Let’s not open up old wounds,” you said, already knowing exactly where she was going with all of her hesitance and fiddling with her thumbs.

“I need to apologize for what happened.”

You shrugged. “I forgive you. Actually, I forgave you weeks and weeks ago. It’s okay. We can move on from it.” We need to move on from it. 

You saw your old lover’s face light up in just the slightest, but just as fast as you saw it, it was gone. Her lack of wanting to express to you didn’t hurt anymore. “We?”

“We can move on,” you repeated, “just not together.” Her face dropped at what you said, and you shrugged your shoulders. “I’m sorry.”

“Don’t be, I fucked up.”

Yes, you did. “It’s in the past now.”

There was a pause, and you could hear your heartbeat in your ears. You wondered when your heart started to beat on its own again and not for the woman standing so close yet so far away. You wondered when you started to do anything for just yourself, and you wondered when you had stopped doing that in the first place. Her voice brought you out of your thoughts. “Is it?”

You almost had to ask her to remind you what the conversation was about. “Oh. It is,” you said gently, but your voice was still stern. “All good things must come to an end, and what we had was good. It was great, and that must have meant that we were destined to end fast.”

She shook her head slightly. “If you- if you forgive me, it doesn’t have to be over.”

“It does.” You looked at your phone and sighed. “I have to leave.”

“Okay,” She said softly after a moment, and finally took a step back. It was a small one, like her body was trying to override her brain. “Okay.”

“I’ll see you, Nat.” You saw her wince, and if you hadn’t made peace with everything, you would have, too.

She took another step back and cleared her throat, just as Sam started making his way over. She nodded at you, and you gave her a small smile, almost encouraging. Just walk away, this is the last time you’ll have to do it. “Later,” She said, her voice a little hoarse as she turned on her heel and walked right past Sam.

“Later” meant never. And you didn’t know if you were supposed to feel nothing or everything about it.

§§§

The last time you saw Natasha Romanoff was a year later, when you were holding hands with a pretty woman from an art show that you went to. She stole your heart with her work, and she turned out just as beautiful on the inside as she was with a brush, and on the outside. Her name was Julie, and she was great. She was honest. 

You really liked Julie. She wasn’t Natasha, though, and it was both refreshing and saddening, because you knew that what you felt with Natasha was a one time thing. You two had one chance to keep the bond that was seemingly inseparable and stronger than steel together, and everyone was rooting for you. And then, it just fell apart.

You knew that Natasha was your first actual love, and the only person who was ever going to be able to love you emotionally like you needed to be. The two of you were, in your mind, made for each other. If soulmates existed, Natasha would have been yours, and you would have been hers. You knew that even five years after not being with her, and while the hole in your heart wasn’t hollow, you had a feeling that a little something was always going to be cold, like a cavity that was never filled. Someone saying her name or asking about her was like chewing ice on it.

But people moved on. Just like you did. And you had moved on from the beautiful yet icy mountains of Natasha and into a soft and whimsical meadow, and that meadow was Julie. 

You were holding hands with Julie, arms swinging as you were leaving the donut shop and talking about silly things that made the both of you grin when you caught a familiar flash of red. Out of instinct, you looked over your shoulder, and what you saw made you freeze.

Natasha Romanoff was with a girl with brown skin and black hair that was glinting in the sunlight, and she wasn’t focused on the way that you and Natasha locked eyes in that moment, the moment that seemed to last years. You didn’t think you were still moving, and it certainly didn’t feel like you were taking a step, but you were. You saw her blue-green eyes blink at you, and like you were still stuck on the same wavelength after all that time, you both raised a hand and gave a timid wave, small smiles gracing the both of your faces.

You saw the girl tug lightly on Natasha’s arm, and your grin stretched. Natasha looked over at the girl, and an immediate smile, one similar but not quite the same as she used to give to you, was on her face. You turned your head forward, a light smile still on your own face as you watched it all happen in a split second.

You both kept walking.

*****

ahahaha wow, that hurt really bad actually - never doing angst again i’m a fluffy type of gal

so i’ve never done a taglist before! so i hope i’m doing it right otherwise this’ll make me look incredibly dumb-

@messuhp @username23345 @fishlikestuff @thelastavenger-3000 @grievingfortheliving @madamevirgo @dontmindmejustreading @xxxtwilightaxelxxx @sourpatchspinster @fayhar @sarcasticallywitty15 @normanijauregui

[rhysismydaddy]

Casual Ruin pt. 4 (Elriel)

Elain’s part of the Damnation Series

~Elain~

“Bless me Father, for I have sinned.” 

That’s what I’m supposed to say, right? That’s what they say in movies, I think. Does it count if it isn’t in Italian?

I rub a hand across my forehead, shaking my head at myself. I’m not even religious. I haven’t been to church since I grew out of the pastel pink Easter dress my mother used to love forcing me into.

Yet here I am, sitting in a dark, hot box, attempting to confess my sins.

I think I’m losing it. 

Five days with no Azriel, and I’m turning to religion.

The dark shadow on the other side of the confessional doesn’t help me in the slightest or even tell me if I’m doing this right. He just sits in silence and waits for me to pour my heart and soul out.

So I say, in an embarrassingly shaky tone, “Well, I... I’ve been sleeping with someone.”

That gets me a low hm.

“Someone I shouldn’t have.” Before he can get the wrong idea, I blurt, “He’s not married or anything. At least, I don’t think so. God, what if he’s married? Oh, I probably shouldn’t say God’s name in vain in church. Sorry.”

Father gives a deep sigh, and I take that to mean I should hurry up. “Anyway, he’s just... not a good guy. I won’t confess his sins for him, but believe me, he’s committed his fair share.”

Still nothing. 

I think he’s waiting for the actual confession part of this thing.

So I say the words I’ve been trying to fight for the last five days. “I told him I don’t want to see him anymore, but I don’t think... I don’t think that’s really true.”

Another hm, this time more thoughtful. 

“I keep thinking about him, all the time. Even though I know it’s wrong. He’s like a tumor.”

There’s a huff, like he’s amused. 

“I’m worried I’m not a good enough person to say away from him,” I murmur quietly, which is the understatement of the century. 

I know I’m not, which is why I’m here. 

I’m pre-confessing, because if the way Azriel’s been on my mind the past couple of days is any indication, it’s only a matter of time before I get desperate enough to call him and tell him his... occupation doesn’t change things.

There’s a bit of a pause, like he doesn’t know how to reply, and then for the first time, I get an actual response. In a very thick, very German accent, the... priest? replies, “His sins are not yours.”

He’s taking the stance opposite of what I thought he would, but that’s a good point. Good enough I don’t bother asking myself why a German priest is in an Italian church.

“True, but if I stay with him, aren’t I condoning them? Don’t they become mine?”

“His sins are not yours,” he repeats.

Helpful.

I’m about to ask for a little bit of actual advice when he asks, “Do you regret it?”

“No,” I answer almost immediately, knowing that no matter how much I hate what Azriel does, I could never regret the time I spent with him.

He’s silent, probably thinking of my punishment for being such a scheming harlot.

I’ll likely have to do a million hail Mary’s once this conversation is over.

But instead of telling me I’m going to hell, he surprises me by asking, “So you plan to sleep with him again?”

There was something familiar about the tone of his voice, but I don’t know anyone German, so I don’t ponder it for long. His question doesn’t require pondering, either.

“No,” I answered with fake certainty, even though the thought of never having Azriel’s calloused hands all over me makes me unspeakably sad.

“Are you sure? Forgiveness from the Lord requires... repentance.”

I sigh at that, hesitating even though I shouldn’t. “I’m sure. No matter how much I want to or think about it, I can’t.”

“I think you should.”

My mouth drops open, not only because the words he just said or the sudden disappearance of his accent, but because the screen separating me from the man on the other side of the confessional drops, revealing the bane of all my problems.

Azriel sticks a cigarette between his full lips, lights it casually, and smiles the devil’s smile. 

“What the hell are you doing in here?” I demand, barely resisting the urge to fling myself over to his side and strangle him.

“Listening to a very insincere confession.” Even though I narrow my eyes in the most threatening gesture I can make, he continues, “You know, if you feel like you need punishing, I can always take you over my knee.”

A strange tingle shoots through me and makes my spin straighten, but I ignore it and glare at him harder.

“You shouldn’t be here.” I look him over, ignoring how good it is to see him and asking, “Aren’t you worried you’re going to catch on fire?”

He grins, blowing smoke around him. “If I’m the devil, does that make you my angel?”

“I’m not your anything.”

He just watches me and smokes his cigarette, something I’m sure is frowned upon in church. Probably right beneath sneaking into a private confessional. 

“Are you even religious?”

My lips twitch as I lie and say, “Recently converted.”

Azriel braces his arms in the small hole of the wall between us, looking unconvinced. “Yeah? What are the Ten Commandments?”

My head tilts as my eyes narrow. “I don’t know them all, but I have to believe one is about not killing people.”

“Number six,” he tells me, surprising me with the fact that he knows that. “You know, there’s also one about not stealing. And I happen to know for a fact you stole my sunglasses that day we were on the beach.”

Comparing those two sins is so ridiculous, a laugh bubbles out of me. He killed someone, yet by his logic I’m just as bad a sinner.

I knew this religion thing wasn’t for me.

“Why are you here, Azriel?” I ask, trying to get back to normal footing.

He takes so long to respond, I’m almost convinced he isn’t even going to bother. He runs a hand across his jaw, through his hair. Looks around at the plain little booth. Smokes some more.

When I’m about to give up and just leave, he says quietly, “I can’t stop thinking about you, either.”

My heart starts to pick up pace. “Yeah?”

I know I shouldn’t encourage this conversation, but hearing that he thinks about me the way I think about him... it means something to me.

“Yeah,” he agrees after a few moments, reaching out to tuck my hair behind my ear. 

It falls silent, and something grows in the silence, building between us until all I’m aware of are the small sweeps of his thumb against my cheekbone. 

I don’t know if he pulls me forward or if I take the step myself, but suddenly I’m right in front of him, our faces lined up through the small hole in the wall.

There’s a Bible in a little cubby that’s pressing into my stomach, and I’m sure there’s no better sign to resist sin than literal scripture digging into you, but I can’t bring myself to care.

It’s been less than a week without him, but it’s like my body is touched starved. The single inch where we’re connected is a live wire, and I close my eyes, trying to figure out what we were even talking about.

Releasing a tense breath that sounds a whole lot like relief, he slides his hand to the nape of my neck and leans his head to rest against mine. 

“Fuck,” he says, like it’s an all-encompassing statement and not a single word. “Come back to me, carro.”

He smells like rain and smoke and something dangerous I never understood until now, and it’s so intoxicating I almost lose myself. Brushing my nose against his, I breathe him in over and over, never getting used to it. “You want me?”

A nod, so small it’s almost imperceptible. But it’s there, and we both know it. 

Making sure my lips brush his, I lean in and whisper, “Then beg for me.”

He goes still, tension coming to rest in the hands still gripping my nape.

See, I realized something in the five days since I last saw him. 

He wants me to say that him being in the mafia doesn’t change anything, confess to lying about it in the first place, and beg him to fuck me, yet hasn’t even apologized for lying to me in the first place.

Sure, I lied, but he got us in this mess, not me.

So he gets to beg.

Azriel pulls back, and there’s such dark depths in his eyes that I shiver. “What did you just say?”

I don’t respond, because I don’t need to. We both know he heard me. 

He releases me with a huff, stepping back and practically growling, “No.”

Raising an eyebrow, I challenge, “Why is it different? You want me to confess to lying about saying that what you do changes things? Fine. I confess, Azriel. I have feelings for you that, whether or not I like it, outweigh the moral part of me that tells me to run in the opposite direction.”

Despite how casually I say it, that realization almost breaks me to admit. 

I realized it when he popped up in this booth, looking every bit the villain and completely making my day. Wrong or not, he makes me happy.

“You have my confession, but you know what? I want yours.”

He shakes his head, seeming to not understand, so I elaborate. “I want you to actually apologize for lying to me. I want you to admit that you put me in an impossible situation, then acted like it wasn’t a big deal. And I want you to beg for my forgiveness.”

The muscles in his jaw are clenched so hard I don’t think he can even open his mouth, but he manages to say, “That will never happen.”

Something inside my chest collapses, so suddenly and painfully I can’t hardly breathe. I hadn’t realized how much I needed it until now, how much it actually meant to me. 

The fact that he won’t make that compromise for me threatens to send my emotions scattering, so I stiffen my spine and force the words out.

“Then we’re done.”

He smacks a hand against the wall of the booth but doesn’t say anything, not even as I fling open the door and flee. 

I rush through the thankfully empty pews and outside, right into a downpour. 

The urge to laugh rises as I become instantly soaked, my dress sticking to me and my hair flattening to my head. It isn’t funny, and would be considered normal any other time or place, but we’ve had a month of paradise without a single rainy day. 

Until right now. It’s almost like the sky’s mood matches mine. 

Practically running, I make my way towards the townhouse. At least it’s close, I think as I hurry. If it was far away I’d probably collapse in a side alley and just let the rain wash me away. 

When I reach the door, unlocking it in a hurry, I feel someone walk up behind me. Stepping inside, I turn to see Azriel staring down at me.

Rain washes over the planes of his face, and while I probably look like a wet rat, he looks like something out of a movie.

"Why do you need this?” he asks, the anger thick in his voice. 

“Why do you?”

He doesn’t make a move to come in, practically ignoring the rain as he asks in a dry tone, “You mean why do I need to hear that what I do and have done--that this fucking life I was forced into--doesn’t make me a monster?”

“Azriel-”

“Because you’re the one person in this entire goddamn world who knows me.”

I give him a look that conveys how little I believe that. 

I don’t know anything about him. That’s the problem.

He shakes his head. “You know who I could’ve been, Elain.” 

It’s my turn to shake my head, because I don’t understand.

He seems to make the decision of whether or not to tell me at once, saying, “Who I could’ve been if I hadn’t been born into a sadistic fucking family who beat the shit out of me for existing.”

Raw anguish lines his voice, and I stop breathing, stop thinking. 

“You know who I wanted to be, who I dreamed of being, when I was in the hospital with a fractured skull or in lockup for stealing a car to run away.” He throws a hand out, yelling, “I didn’t ask for this shit! I wanted to be who I am with you. But when someone came and said they could get me out of the life I knew would kill me, I fucking said yes. And I don’t regret it.”

Tears are streaming down my face, mixing with the rain bouncing off the door. I never knew. “Azriel...”

“The day my older brother took a hammer to my hands because I scratched his CD was the last time I apologized. And I haven’t begged for anything since I was old enough to know better.”

There’s a set to his jaw, a hardness in his body I’ve never seen. “But none of this shit even matters, and it isn’t an excuse, because you’re right.”

The rain comes somehow harder, almost drowning us, but I’m rooted to this spot.

Especially as Azriel slowly lowers himself to his knees, right there on the threshold of the door. 

“I’m sorry, Elain. I’m sorry I lied to you and put you in this position and acted like an ass about it. I’m so fucking sorry.”

I shake my head again, whispering, “Stop.”

I can’t bear for him to be like this after hearing what he said, can’t bear to be the reason for the strain in his voice.

He doesn’t listen. Just looks up at me with such open, deep eyes I almost choke. “Please.”

A sob escapes me as I make the decision instantly, falling to my knees and throwing myself at him.

He grunts as we collide, but I capture the sound with my mouth, seeming to take him off guard as I kiss him without abandon.

His hair is like wet silk between my fingers, and I realize the door’s still open and that rain is still getting everywhere, but I don’t care about anything but him.

His hands grip my waist, holding me steady, as I kiss him until I’m breathless, until I know he’ll believe me. 

“You’re not a monster,” I tell him, pulling back to palm either side of his face. “I know you, and I know you’re not a monster.”

He leans in again, but I keep going, knowing that he needs to hear this as much as I need to say it.

“I decided before I saw you today that what you do doesn’t change things for me. I just want you.” 

The knowledge of how deep we’re in this settles between us, growing into something undeniable as we stare at each other.

This time, when he kisses me again, I don’t stop him.

We fall over, him landing on top of me, and roll until we’re far enough inside that he can kick the door closed.

It’s silent besides the sound of our breathing, the rain pounding against the windows, and the deep, wet slide of our mouths coming together.

I tug at the hem of his shirt, and he pulls back long enough to rip it off. His skin’s hot compared to the cool water all over us, and I’m dizzy on the feel of him. I feel like I can’t get enough, can’t have him fast enough.

His hands are rough against me, tilting my head where he wants it, gripping my hips, putting my arms above my head.

Reaching between us, he fists the thin fabric of my dress, and then there’s a ripping sound I don’t even care to protest because now his skin’s against mine, and I don’t think anything has felt better.

A thumb on my jaw pushes my head to the side, and then his mouth is on my neck and he’s kissing me over the spot where my pulse flutters as proof of my pounding heart. 

I tug his belt open, and he toes his boots off, pulling back to finish getting rid of his jeans then settling back over me.

I tilt my hips up, not able to take the wait anymore, but he has more self control, taking the time to kiss my throat, my jaw, the tip of my nose.

“Please,” I beg. “I need you. Please, Azriel.”

He’s inside me with the next breath, filling me so deeply I can’t think. 

“Merda,” he curses, forehead dropping to mine. “Questa figa e stata fatta per me.”

The dirty words just make me burn hotter. 

Or maybe it’s the fact that I have one of the most dangerous men in the world between my thighs, waxing poetic about sex with me.

His teeth tug on my earlobe, and I arch up into him, making him sink deeper in me. 

“Dimmi- shit,” Azriel chuckles, almost like he didn’t realize he wasn’t speaking English. “Tell me if it’s too much.”

Knowing that won’t happen, I nod and open my mouth to ask him to hurry up with it.

But I never get the chance, because the next second, he’s pulling out and slamming into me so hard I slide across the floor. I don’t get far, because one arm goes under my head to grip my shoulder and the other lifts my leg to keep it in place. 

And then he starts to move.

His hips hit mine hard enough to bruise, his mouth is demanding against mine, and his grip on my shoulder is unshakeable. It’s rough and restrictive and something I never knew I needed.

He’s turned me into this wanton, thoughtless thing, and all I can do is burn and burn and pray I survive. 

A moan escapes me with every thrust, almost like he’s pushing them out of me, and I know I’m loud enough the sweet old lady next door will hear, but I can’t stop. 

“You have to be quiet, or this’ll be over before I’m ready,” he warns in a breathy voice that makes it even harder to keep quiet.

It gets worse as he starts to repeatedly hit the spot only he’s been able to find, like he’s in perfect sync with my body. 

“Fuck, Azriel,” I moan, losing my mind at how good he feels against me. 

I try to fight it off, try to prolong this longer, but one of his hands slips to my throat. And as he lightly squeezes the sides, the blood rushes through me in a heady current, I come so hard I almost pass out.

Shaking beneath him, I release a loud moan he covers my mouth to stifle. When he pulls it away, I see slight indentations and realize I must’ve bit him. 

I make a note to apologize later. Even if the way his eyes go almost black tells me he isn’t mad about it. 

I’m almost comatose, but he isn’t even finished. He just grits his teeth, pauses to throw my leg over his shoulder, and keeps going.

My hands grip his shoulders, nails digging into his skin and trying to keep him exactly where he is, doing exactly what he’s doing.

Thunder breaks outside, but it isn’t loud enough to mask the sound of us coming together or the moans he’s no longer masking.

Despite my body being sensitized and exhaused, when he cups my cheek, kisses me softly, and says, “Come with me,” I do.

He groans, hips churning messily against mine, as release finds us both. My legs shake, squeeze his waist like a vice, then go limp. 

All of me does, actually. I’m boneless and pliant and couldn’t move if I was paid to.

Azriel isn’t much better off, collapsing on top of me and suffocating me with his warm weight. 

“Holy shit,” I whisper after a moment, smiling at the amused huff he lets out. 

Air starts to become hard to find, so he rolls off me, then sits to lean his back against the door.

“We’re on the floor,” he says, almost like he didn’t even notice before now.

I shrug, not caring in the slightest. “I can’t move, so we’re going to have to stay here.”

He chuckles, something entirely male in his eyes as he looks at me. My cheeks grow warm as he looks at the complete mess at apex of my thighs and murmurs, “Fuck, that’s pretty.”

“You are so inappropriate,” I mumble, covering my face with my hands.

Nodding his agreement, he grips my hips and practically drags me on top of him. “You like it, though,” he teases, putting a sweet kiss to my lips. 

“I do,” I admit, kissing him again. 

Something brushes against my thigh, and I look down between us, then raise a brow. I knew he had stamina, but this is...

“Consider it making up for lost time.”

A laugh bubbles out of me, and he smiles, one of those full, beautiful smiles I’m helpless to resist. 

I know everything’s complicated now and I know he does horrible things, but when he smiles at me like that, it’s hard to care about anything except how happy he makes me. Right or wrong, good or bad, there’s something between us I’m powerless against. 

“It’s been five days,” I remind him, running my hands up his chest and into his hair. “Better get started.”

~

The floor. The wall. The stairs. The shower.

He gives me a tour of my own house, fucking me on every inch of available space. 

I’m just as much to blame, I guess. Any time he tries to do anything besides me, I tug him back, unable to stop myself. 

He’s the drug I’m happily overdosing on, and fuck, does it feel good.

When we finally end up in bed hours later, I expect to immediately pass out. He definitely looks tired, and I’m sure I’m not much better, considering the amount of... activity my body’s been through tonight.

But despite the lingering exhaustion, we lay there, just looking at each other.

There’s still so much left unsaid, so many unanswered questions and untold stories, but I don’t want to ruin the moment by talking, much less asking questions, so I stay quiet.

His lips twitch, almost like he can see what I’m thinking.

“I’ll tell you anything you want to know,” he murmurs a second later, proving that thought correct. “I won’t lie to you again.”

I nod, thinking of what I want to ask first. 

I also think about the pain in his eyes earlier, when he gave me that piece of himself. I don’t ever want to be the cause of that pain, so I ask something I assume is unrelated. 

“Who was the man I hit with the wine bottle?”

The corner of his lips tip up. “That was Luca. I guess you could say he’s my friend, but more officially he’s my Underboss. We worked our way up through the ranks together.”

“You’ve known him a long time then?”

He nods, propping his head up with an arm. “We were in prison together.”

Questions bloom, but I don’t want to pry, so-

“I was sentenced to three years for grand theft auto and another for assaulting the cop who booked me. Luca was in for intent to sell.” 

At my blank look, he says, “Drugs, Elain.”

“Oh.” I feel stupid as hell, so I deflect by asking, “You were cellmates?”

“No,” he laughs, running a hand over his jaw thoughtfully. “But after he saved my ass from getting jumped one day, we stuck together.”

It’s quiet until I ask, “How’d you get out?”

“Well, this was in Chicago-” 

My eyes grow wide as I cut him off. “You’re from Chicago? You’re American?” 

He laughs at the disbelief in my voice, nodding while my brain explodes. He’d never told me, but I’d just assumed he was born in Sicily. 

“Anyway, this was in Chicago. I was seventeen, but got tried as an adult because of my record with juvie. I spent two years inside, then the Capo there just showed up one day and told me he could get me out.”

“Seriously?”

“Yeah,” he says, rolling on his back and looking up at the ceiling. “I remember it like it happened yesterday. He’s only three years older than me, but he was wearing a two-thousand dollar suit and had everything I didn’t. He said he needed someone to work for him, to do the shit no one wanted to.”

Sliding closer, I prop my head up with a hand. “And that was you?”

“He said he looked at my records and that I had potential.” He laughs, almost unbelieving. “I was nothing more than an angry fuckup from the south side, and he said I had potential. He said he knew who my father and brothers were and could help me get revenge. I knew it was crazy, but I said yes. On the condition Luca got out, too.”

My eyebrows go up as he says, “We were out the next day.”

“Powerful friends,” I mutter. 

He toys with the ends of my hair, slight smile on his face.

“I worked in Chicago for about a year, then was sent here. He said he needed someone over here he could trust. My family’s Italian, so I knew the language, and with my baggage, I wanted out of the city anyway.” He takes a deep breath, running his hand down my arm. “So I moved here and worked my way up.”

He picks my hand up, measuring the difference between our palms.

“And now you’re Capo.”

“Mmhm.” 

Tugging my hand, he pulls me closer, burying his head in my neck and inhaling. 

“I have the Capo of the Sicilian Mafia in my bed,” I remark almost unbelievingly, making him laugh.

He shifts to lay down, holding me in his arms, and I marvel at how small and delicate I feel with him. My head’s against his chest, and he’s curled around me, making me sigh. 

“The Capo is a snuggler,” I murmur, running my hands across the smooth expanse of his back and smiling when he makes a low sound of contentment.

“I haven’t slept the past five days,” he tells me. “I couldn’t sleep without you in my bed. You have no idea how much it pissed me off at the time.”

Laughing, I snuggle closer. He’s so big and warm, and I’m so tired. 

Eyes struggling to stay open, I realize I never told him something. 

“You’re forgiven,” I whisper. 

I feel his lips on my brow, kissing me so gently my heart clenches. And I swear I hear him say something, but I’m soo tired to stay awake to hear it.

I fall asleep in his arms, and even though he’s dangerous and everything I should hate, it’s the most peaceful I’ve ever felt.

I’ve said the past month with him has felt like a fairy tale, and that’s true. 

Maybe just not with the knight in shining armor, but with the villain instead.

______________________________________________

stole a couple lines from Danielle Lori

Part 5

@elorcan-trash @acreativelydifferentlove @loosingdreams @poisonous00 @januarystears @emikadreams @swankii-art-teacher @thedarkdemigod​ @full-tilt-diva​ @biggestwingspan-az​ @bookstantrash​ @mari-highladyof-feels​ @pilesofriles​ @teddytdr​ @perseusannabeth​ @cursebreaker29​ @a-bit-of-a-cactus​ @elriel4life​ @girl-who-reads-the-books​ @shinya-hiiragi​ @bamchickawowow​ @live-the-fangirl-life​ @ireallyshouldsleeprn​ @highqueenofelfhame​ @autophobiax​ @rowaelinismyotp​ @nahthanks​ @ghostlyrose2​ @lovemollywho​ @inardour​ @tillyrubes10​ @tswaney17​ @greerlunna​ @rowanisahunk​ @superspiritfestival​ @thegoddessofyou​ @awesomelena555​ @booksofthemoon​ @jlinez​ @studyliketate​ @over300books​ @justgiu12​ @maastrash​ @aesthetics-11​ @b00kworm​ @sleeping-and-books​ @musicmaam​ @hizqueen4life​ @maybekindasortaace​

[ruby-whistler]

The "redemption questionnaire" - the survey results.

Hello! Welcome back to the results of this survey, which is now closed - I really didn’t expect this amount of interest and am thankful for the ability to collect this much data on the subject.

Now, the reason I made this survey in the first place was this post crossing my dash. It talks about people wanting to see characters or people who they dislike suffer, even if healing is completely possible or even the better option - it’s about people denying that there is such a thing as bad people “deserving” things that we humans need to function, such as being loved.

This post talks about fictional characters, but despite that fact, it made me lose my faith in humanity just a bit. I am a pretty cynical person, but I also consider myself quite empathetic to existing and fictional people alike.

So, I got curious, and wondered - in the Dream SMP fandom specifically, is there a way to get input as to what people actually think about the issue of redemption?

[ tw for brief mentions of torture and abuse ]

So, the goal of the survey was get information to answer certain questions;

Do people think that some characters shouldn’t be redeemed or are irredeemable because of their actions, however don’t hold this true for others?

Are there people, who despite disliking certain characters, still believe that they deserve healing?

Would people want characters to suffer or even die for their actions rather than heal and be happy?

Do people think certain characters in the story don’t deserve to be happy?

Now, I did get some responses that were asking to include or exclude certain characters from the main three (Quackity, Dream and Wilbur - all names are talking about the characters only), however there was a very specific reason I chose these people.

Quackity and Dream have both done actions that have similar weight, while Wilbur serves as an outlier; someone who hurt people in more indirect, but still impactful ways. All three of them have been hurt - Wilbur mostly by Eret’s betrayal, Quackity by Schlatt and others, and Dream by Sam and Quackity. All three have contributed to a toxic and harmful environment, which in turn hurt them back even more and drove them deeper into becoming destructive.

Such a comparison between them would test the fandom’s ability to separate their feelings from in-story morality, as well as bring double standards to light.

Let’s see the demographic part of the survey first, as to see what we are working with;

Of the 390 people partaking in the survey, 44.9% like the direction the Dream SMP plot is heading at the moment, 3% do not and 52.1% are not sure.

Of the characters whose redemption arcs are most anticipated, 71% of participants are expecting a BadBoyHalo or Eggpire redemption arc, Niki/Jack and Wilbur coming close in second and third with 59.2% and 51.8% respectively. As for the main trio of this survey, Quackity lands with 28.2%, Dream with 43.3% and Wilbur with 51.8% of participants thinking a redemption arc for them is likely in the near future.

I would like to express right now that the characters included in the “possible redemption” section do not in any way, shape or form reflect on what I personally think about the characters. I don’t think certain characters need a redemption arc, however I left in the option in order to let people pick it if they wish to do so.

As for the healing arc question, quite understandably, Tommy and Tubbo are the characters most expected to get a healing arc in the upcoming storylines, sitting at 76.2% of participants. Niki and/or Jack come in second with 62.1%, and Quackity, Wilbur and Dream land at 25.4%, 45.9% and 42.8% respectively.

For the aforementioned questions, 3.6% or participants thought none of the Dream SMP characters would get a redemption arc, and 5.4% thought none of them would heal - and with the track record the story has so far, I honestly cannot blame them.

Now we move more towards the main trio;

48.7% of participants have positive feelings towards Quackity’s character, and 23.1% have negative ones. The majority of the participants (66.2%) think that his actions are intentional and hurtful, but interestingly enough, only 25.4% say they find them inexcusable and awful.

For c!Dream, 51.5% feel positively towards him and 35.7% do negatively. Luckily, 53.8% find his actions inexcusable and awful, while 40.3% find them intentional and hurtful.

c!Wilbur breaks the trend with 58.7% of people feeling positively towards the character and only 17.2% feeling negatively, however such a discrepancy can be expected when we compare his actions (found 65.1% of the time to be intentional and hurtful).

I want to preface this next section by saying that I have nothing against people who find redemption arcs unappealing, or wouldn’t find them narratively appealing in the specific story. These answers will be counted as merely neutral ground in the upcoming questions; you are completely valid if you think certain character arcs would not fit the themes or style of storytelling, or if you want bad people to stay bad for the sake of conflict.

However, 79.5% of people find well-done redemption and healing very appealing within the story, and 19% like it for certain stories and characters, so this shouldn’t impact the results on a large scale.

1. Do people think that some characters shouldn’t be redeemed or are irredeemable because of their actions, however don’t hold this true for others?

People’s reasoning for not wanting characters to heal varies, however the contrast between c!Quackity and c!Dream in this scenario is very intriguing.

Despite the two having done comparably disgusting things, one with more and one with less selfish reasons but neither excusable, both classifying under abuse, the people who think c!Dream shouldn’t get a redemption arc (9.7%) because of his actions greatly overshadow the people who think c!Quackity doesn’t deserve a redemption arc (1%) because of his actions. Hell, even c!Wilbur’s percentage is higher, sitting at 2.1%.

This is extremely surprising considering the demographic - and seems to hint at the fact that people who think positively of c!Dream are far more likely to think that c!Q and c!Wil deserve redemption and healing (despite the common argument that both have hurt him greatly) than it is the other way around.

Even sending a bad message is a lot higher with c!Dream (30.5%), despite the fact that c!Quackity’s actions and him as a character could be similarly triggering, and he himself sits at 2.6% of participants. Of course, this question could be partially taken as what he went through in prison making him better, which would definitely be a bad message to send, but considering the percentage (42.1%) of people who don’t want Dream to be redeemed, that’s still insanely high.

Overall, people from a very balanced demographic of people who are positive and negative towards the three characters, only 52.6% want Dream redeemed as opposed to the 83.8% with Quackity and 86.7% with Wilbur - and the reasons given seem to be largely based on bias and double standard, or even hypocritical in context.

For the fandom, this question’s answer seems to be yes, although from the people who are c!Dream positive, this sort of thinking seems to be of a much lesser extent and amount towards characters they dislike.

2. Are there people, who despite disliking certain characters, still believe that they deserve healing?

Let’s look at some of the comments given to this answer;

“On the one hand I do want Dream to recognize that his actions have hurt people, but I really don’t want torture to have ‘made him better’ or for the people he hurt to have to forgive him.”

“as much as I hate c!quackity and dislike c!wilbur, I believe that evil is not something you are, its what you do and as such I think every person deserves to heal and grow.”

“Quackity is the closest - he's spiraled far, but we got to see some of what he could be as a more moral man. Dream's arc would be....incredibly difficult to pull off, and while everyone deserves a chance to change, not everyone who does is ever owed forgiveness. And Wilbur....I dont know what would make him want to get better, but I want him to.”

“I wouldn’t like some of these characters to get redeemed(c!Quackity), but I know everyone deserves a chance at redemption because no one is mentally stable and not traumatized.”

“bastard men. on a serious note ive noticed a lot of evil in dsmp come from the perpetuation of the cycle of revenge and punitive punishment and i think excluding someone from them would. just not be a good message. and yeah c!dreams motives and methods being seen in separate characters is just proof of this - nothing that made any of these men villains are unique to them, and they are all shit-infested holes other characters can fall in.”

“i think every character on the smp has done horrible things and is morally grey, but i think everyone deserves the chance and the ability to heal and try to be better.”

“listen, i love big q, and i know he doesn't mean it, Wilbur also deserves better (far from tommy tho, they're not good for each other rn) and dream can go f**k himself, the only "healing " Arc that would ever make sense is if he escapes the prison and f**ks off to the middle of nowhere (wich is unlikely)”

“Even if I don't like some of the characters they deserve a chance at healing and moving on”

“Controversial opinion but Wilbur has been pretty shady from the start, so a redemption/healing arc just wouldn't make sense to me. He antagonized Dream to sell drugs.”

“i would like to qualify all my answers towards redemption as that they are /all/ allowed to get better, just not necessarily near those they've hurt. those they've hurt are under no obligation to forgive them or be involved in that.”

“REDEMPTION IS POG F**K IT EVERYONE GETS REDEEMED THE ONLY BIG BAD THAT EXISTS IS SYSTEMIC”

“Clarifying about my wilbur answers. A character can only get a redemption if he wants to change. Wilbur doesn’t want to change. I still think he deserves to heal but not to be redeemed. Those are two very seperate things”

“PLEASE JUST LET THEM GET HELP. ALL OF THEM.”

“i'm at sort of an impasse with c!quackity & c!wilbur. i don't like c!quackity in the slightest. i think he has great potential for a redemption arc, but i probably wouldn't be interested in watching it. on the other hand, with c!wilbur, i actually would watch his redemption arc, but i don't see it happening any time soon.”

“I answered " he deserves to heal and get better despite the actions he's commited; everyone deserves to heal and get better " for c!Wilbur but I partially Disagree with the "Everyone deserves to heal and get better" part. simply because some characters are irredeamable eg : c!dream”

“If c!Wilbur gets a redemption arc (I hope he does) I really hope it comes with learning that ethnostates and nationalism are not poggers. I'd be worried about the message it would send if he didn't learn that & it only focused on interpersonal stuff instead.”

“maybe a bit weird that i want c!dream to have a redemption arc but not c!q or c!wilbur, but hear me out. c!dream is being tortured in pandoras vault and we all know (no matter what the c!dream antis say) no one deserves torture. we have something to sympathize with with c!dream. with c!q and c!wilbur, i cant think of anything to sympathize with …. im not trying to say that c!dream is better than them, or that he didnt do bad things, but i sympathize with him much more than i do with c!q and c!wilbur because q and wilbur caused their own problems while a lot of dreams problems come from other people”

“We have both seen Wilbur and Quackity be relatively good people, or at the very least morally Gray people who had genuine love and care to those close to them. While with Dream we have never seen that, as he has always been focused on chaos, fun, and power.”

“I just want everyone to be happy and get along. C!Wilbur to get his problems fixed. C!Quackity to be happy and not have to worry about being the next c!Schlatt. C!Dream to finally tell us his side of the story and potentially join the syndicate?”

“Redemption isnt something any one can say is deserved or not”

“For me the main difference is thay wilbur and quackity (although having done bad things) did them out of grief or bc they felt like it was the only thing they could do for a sense of security (both after they lost something important to them). Dream on the other hand went out of his way and hurt others maliciously when he DIDNT have to or there were other less horrible/long-lasting actions he could done”

“The message that some people dont deserve to learn and grow from their past mistakes is harmful”

“listen.. i really hate c!quackity and c!wilbur right now so.. erm..in emotionally, i don't want them to have redemption arc because i hate them..BUT by using my brain i know that is a stupid excuse, everyone deserve redemption so..yeah sorry if it confusing you but honestly..the reason i hate them so much is probably because of the arc they on so..give them time and i think i will say i welcome their redemption arc with an open arm”

“i answered twice for dream because i have mixed feelings, while i think he is an atrocious person, i believe personally that forgoing forgiveness from others, he deserves to be happy and healthy and heal. hes clearly got issues of his own, and while it doesnt excuse his actions he also deserves the basic right to heal”

“I personally regard redemption as the act of simply becoming a better person, seperate from whether or not they are accepted or forgiven by their victims. With that definition, I think there is no being "deserving" of a redemption arc, it's something that everyone is entitled to if they chose to. Therefore, everyone, and I mean everyone, in as something as morally gray as the Dream SMP is capable of becoming a better person. It doesn't mean they get rewarded or forgiven for it, it just means they are capable of change and are able to fulfil character potential beyond being a villain.”

It seems to me like there definitely are a lot of people in each side of the spectrum, so this test seems to have come back positive; however, there are more questions that we have yet to answer.

3. Would people want characters to suffer or even die for their actions rather than heal and be happy?

Here is probably a good place to mention this questionnaire was more of a psychological experiment than a survey. Most of the answers were specifically designed and in such an order that would get your mind thinking about certain things before shoving your psyche into a difficult question.

Well, here comes the moment of truth; what sort of redemption arc do people prefer? Would they rather the character get better and reap the “rewards” (which are actually simply things every human being needs and deserves; love and happiness), atone for their actions but not get to be happy, or would they like them to suffer or be punished instead? Do people really treat basic human needs as “rewards” for being a good person; or are they only reserved for characters that were never bad people in the first place? Remember; all of these characters have inarguably gone through pain during their life. Just how much do people enjoy punitive justice, and should I literally just stick to my corner of the fandom for my own good?

The answer probably won’t surprise you!

Starting off, 82.8% want a happy or neutral ending for Quackity, 59.4% of which think he should experience good things in the end. 54.4% of participants want a happy or neutral ending for Dream, 62.7% of which think it should lead to him being happy and loved. 89.2% of people want a happy or neutral ending for Wilbur, 49.4% of which lean towards happiness over closure.

17.2% of participants would prefer Quackity to experience pain as part of his redemption arc. 8.5% want him to be mentally tormented by the weight of his own actions, and 5.6% think he should be punished before being allowed to get better.

For Dream, these percentages are way higher- and here is the funny thing, I thought that pretty much no one would say he should suffer before healing, because he’s already suffering for his actions indirectly by being abused by people who hate him for them. However, 7.2% of people think he has yet to be punished enough for his crimes in order to deserve being redeemed. 21.5% want him to suffer under the weight of his own actions, and 6.9% would want him to die instead of getting a happy ending. Overall, 45.6% would prefer a redemption arc for Dream in which he is subjected to pain or punishment.

10.8% of participants would want Wilbur to have a more difficult character arc, with the percentages pretty evenly divided between the options.

4. Do people think certain characters in the story don’t deserve to be happy?

“Deserving” basic human needs, or not deserving them for being bad people/being bad people in the past, is something I don’t personally agree with, however this is tumblr, not thought police, so let’s just look at the survey results.

While 68.5% of participants believe all of the characters in the story deserve to be loved and happy, only 66.2% think Wilbur does, 61.5% think Quackity does, and 38.5% think Dream does.

Let’s look at some closing thoughts on the subject as a closing note;

“I want everyone to have a sort of personal redemption. Where they realize they have hurt people. But I think it’s difficult. I mean Dream abused a child. Quackity tortured Dream relentlessly. I think the redemption arc that is the easiest is one for Wilbur because of cc!wilburs acting and emphasis on his characters mental health. But I think Wilburs also done so much f**ked up shit too. I think it’s difficult. I just think the redemption arcs are really really difficult.”

“i genuinely can't help myself, i want everyone to have the chance to be better.”

“i think that wilbur, quackity and sam should be redeemed because we as an audience know that they all believe they're doing the right thing and regret/didn't enjoy hurting people with their actions. but with c!dream, there's a lot more evidence that he knew what he was doing wrong and actively enjoyed doing it.”

“everybody deserves to heal. if someone wants to be better and strives to be better, who is anyone to deprive them of that?”

“I don’t like some of these characters and their actions, but everyone deserves a chance to heal. To work through their trauma.”

“dream doesn’t deserve shit, quackitys probably gonna keep riding the las nevadas train until it crashes and burns and wilbur should move on from being “the villain” and stop seeing everything as black and white”

“No one is beyond deserving help. That's not how the world works and that's not what the story should show in my opinion.”

“narratively, i want redemption and happy endings for all characters but morally, i really despise some of them and i'm also really conflicted about some of them as well”

“I want my faves to be better and I think it's the best possible option for everyone involved, even the characters they've hurt.”

“c!wilbur and c!quackity go to therapy. c!dream get hit by another train /hj”

“Hurt people hurt people. If given a chance to distance yourself from your victims and abusers, if given a safe environment with a support network of people you haven't formerly harmed, you can then heal and let the others heal. Live and let live, but living is harder for everyone when we don't give others the chances they need to grow and change themselves.”

“all of them deserve to find growth and happiness but under no circumstances are those who have been hurt by them obligated to be involved in any aspect of that arc. most obvious example- c!dream is allowed to grow and realize that what he's done is awful, but c!tommy is not obligated to forgive him or even be near him.”

“They can all improve and get better and be better people …. They all deserve a chance to be better and be happy. However. Wilbur and dream should get their "redemption" arcs away from esp. Tommy and all the other people they hurt. Big Q. should get his redemption arc away from Dream and stuff. If the prison was less focused on detainment and more focused on rehabilitation and then Dream had no contact with Tommy for example that's a scenario that I'd like.”

“is quackity actually considered a villain in this story? What has he done wrong lol Create a casino? be emotionally manipulated? have rejection sensitive dysphoria? I don't think he's a good person based on his current actions but i don't think hes a villain. I think he's trying hard to become something hes not. … I hate c!dream and I don't think he can ever get better. hes a manipulator gaslight gatekeep girlboss and i think he deserves to stay in prison and rot. watching the tommy exile arc would make me so angry that i had to stop watching.”

“i'm so CONFLICTED about this! i want the angst, but god the angst has been going on for a LONG time. honestly, i think the conclusion i would be happiest with would be for c!dream, c!quackity, c!sam, c!tommy, and c!wilbur to calm down, get some therapy, and stay VERY FAR AWAY FROM EACH OTHER. god damn, it's like they WANT to get more traumatized,,”

“the loathing i feel directed at c!dream specifically is so goddamn strong. my god i hate that guy. uhhh regarding quackity no i dont feel like he shouldnt feel ANY pain or anything hes done some f**ked up stuff but i mean..? with the exception of the torture hes the most redeemable guy up there for me which is probably because we have seen his entire downward spiral.”

“I have to admit that although I strongly believe no one on the Dream SMP deserves to be tormented and deprived of their healing and happiness, I feel really icky about c!Quackity. I really hope that the ccs find a way to make his redemption logical and satisfying to watch. If that is not the case, I will still welcome it with open arms, but secretly I will be a little bit salty about it.”

“For the last question bit there i wanted to check more then once because i want them all to feel guilty and tormented for what they have done.”

“Yknow.... basic human rights... to be happy and loved isn't something that should be deserved it should be something that everyone is allowed to obtain for themselves and it shouldn't be allowed it should just be…”

“While i think that all of the characters should the chance to get redemption and healing, I’d probably be less likely to watch redemption arcs from c!Quackity and c!Wilbur than c!Dream, just because I dislike them. Not to say that they shouldn’t get them, because I hope they do, I’m just more like to be going “Good for them” in the distance.”

“I JUST WANT THEM ALL TO BE HAPPY PLEASEEEEEEEE -dr3”

“for the final question it doesnt provide a none of the above option or a some of the characters but not all option. since I dont think c!Dream deserves to be happy and loved but I do the other two (to some degree) but answering "all of the characters .. " I feel Includes c!dream who I ultimately just really hate and want to have nothing but a fictional death!”

“therapy. therapy for everyone.”

“f**k c!dream <3 i honestly don’t think people who abuse kids (or anyone) for fun should ever be redeemed i think they should just rot in a hole somewhere”

“It would be hypocritical to say that one character deserves redemption more than another, especially considering they've all done (almost equally) horrible things. Either everyone deserves redemption, or no one does.”

Conclusion: in the end, this is all the ways in which we like to enjoy fiction. However, for some completely unrelated reason, I am now about 45.6% less likely to attempt to interact with anyone outside my immediate group of friends in the fandom.

Thank you for reading!