#miraculous ladybug speculation

[nothingtherefornow]

“B-BUT CHLOE APOLOGIZED IN XOMBIZOU AND QUEEN WASP!”

1. Zombizou she only apologized to Bustier. Not the people who were ACTUALLY wronged by her. Ie marinette for destroying her gift.

2. She only apologized to ladybug because she admired her.

“BUT FELIX AND NATHALIE NEVER APOLOGIIIZED”

3. You’re right, they didn’t apologize directly, but the greatest apology is changed behavior. They changed their behavior. Nathalie went out of her way to protect Adrien afterwards. And Felix chose to do right by them afterwards. Also yes both Chloe and Felix stole miraculi from Ladybug but the latters motives weren’t just “I GOT TOLD NO HISSSS”

“BUT GABRIEL WAS REDEEMED!”

4. Lol no. Gabriel was never sorry for what he did. He took the easy way out. He didn’t regret anything.

I could argue about Gabriel not regretting what he did but I think there's a higher chance that in the end, after Bug Noir beat him and made him listen to Emilie's recording, that he realized his wife would hate him for what he did. What the point of bringing Emilie back if the only thing he gets out of it is a Divorce ? Gabriel may be able to control Adrien, but he wouldn't be able to do the same with his wife once she realized how far he went to bring her back

Maybe Gabriel also realized that no matter how much control he has over Adrien with his amok, his son would still hate him and their relationship was truly ruined. An awake Emilie would also easily spot Gabriel using the rings to subdue their son and not be alright with it. Even if Gabriel made his wish and used it to kill Marinette by making her the sacrifice, he would only end up with a wife and a son hating him for life. Not to forget, Gabriel was also still planning to heal Nathalie with his original wish, yet she was almost ready to kill him to stop him. Had Gabriel actually succeeded, who know if Nathalie wouldn't have tried to take Adrien's amok from Garbage Agreste in order to free Adrien, and reveal all the truth to him and Emilie about the terrible Gabriel did ?

So yeah in a way, If Gabriel finally realized through his madness that both Nathalie and Emilie would be against him in the new world he wanted to create, it makes sense that he would want to take the easy way out and join his wife in death by trying to fix part of his mess and giving up his own life for that.

But like I said, there's also a reason why the ML writting team made Gabriel formulate his wish in a manner that does not make it clear what he truly wished for. We know that Nathalie being healed was part of Gabriel's wish, but was it the only thing ? Was he actually sincere when he asked Marinette to not tell Adrien about the monster that was his father ? Or was he manipulating her ? What if what Lila saw and was scared of at the end of Re creation was actually another consequence of Gabriel's wish ?

[edgybutnotveryedgy]

okay, so uh...

I’ve been rewatching season 4, and while watching sole crusher, I noticed something when Andre was going through his chest.

so see the picture behind Emilies?

is it just me or does that look like Kagami?

like same bangs, similar eye shape. I wonder if Kagami’s mom Tomoe was involved in the film as well? if so then that changes so many things. 

[cakemousse]

alright unless proven otherwise, i'm going to hc that toxinelle's crush is actually griffe noire

or a “crush who doesn’t think I’m a lame-o”! credits to @2manyfandoms2count for the translation

it's unfortunate... but hear me out

the salters always say that the lovesquare is toxic codependency, imma show you what real toxic codependency really is, on the part of emonette at least

'he's rude as fuck and disrespects her all the time, there's no way emonette would fall for him' while this is true and i would agree under normal circumstances, toxinelle came from a world where she didn't have anyone, no super awesome friends to inspire her everyday, no best friend in life and in death, no mum who is gentle and calm, nothing. she's lonely and has nothing to fall back on, but you know who she can fall back on? griffe noire

even if he does let her fall

he is the only constant she has in her life, at least ever since she got her miraculous. even if it means getting insulted left and right by him, she puts up with him

why? cause if she doesn't she'll truly lose the only thing she has 'going' in her life

and we can see that after she read marinette’s diary about the part where ladybug and chat noir are partners or rather teammates, she looks at griffe noire, as though she’s thinking of being teammates with him. it’s something she wants, and we know it’s something she truly wants by the end of the special

also in this universe, emodrien has a crush on emonette, so what's preventing toxinelle to have a crush on griffe noire?

toxinelle isn’t happy, we can tell when she poured her heart out to ladyfly about everything and then finally about her crush thinking she’s lame all the time, but there isn’t much she can do if she wants her constant to continue be by her side

loneliness really does some fucked up things to a person huh?

the concept’s pretty fitting of a villain don’t you think? 🥲

[monpetitchattriste]

At last my dreams have come along

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Either Shadybug and Claw noir are just like punks rebelling with super powers or the worst they have done is vandalism and some property damage OR they are global terrorists that have conquered the world and are killing/ torturing the inhabitants of Paris, there is no in between.

[pisoprano]

I found it a bit odd that in the promo pictures for the Miraculous Paris special, Shadybug and Emonette both appear in one:

But Claw Noir only appears in his super form:

Now, this may just be a sign that Evil!Adrien isn’t going to get as much screen time as Evil!Marinette is, or be a side effect of how this show’s marketing tends to skew towards featuring the girls (and Marinette specifically).

But if we want to put on the tinfoil hat? There’s the conspiracy explanation for why we’re not being given info about Claw Noir’s civilian form in the promotional imagery:

That’s not Adrien. That’s Felix.

Felix is Chat Noir in the PV universe, so it’s not out of the question that he could be the black cat wielder in another universe. An AU where Chat is evil is exactly the sort of place you can make Chat!Felix canon.

And if you look at his transformation as Argos, what do we see?

Oh hey, it’s green hair and pink eyes, same as Claw Noir!

Coincidence??????????????

(yeah, probably)

[fortuna-et-cataclysmos]

In defense of s5 finale

I hear and see a lot of people expressing dislike of the season finale, some also in the tags and comments of my analysis/speculation posts. So I wanted to further expand on this.

Gabriel's victory -being remembered a hero despite everything wrong he did, especially abuse to Adrien- has left a sour taste in many people's mouth; many blaming the scenarists and not shying away from calling it "bad writing."

But I think that that was exactly what the scenarists wanted to do? The perfect world Gabriel leaves behind is unsettling, unfair, and I think that the creators have done their best to show that implicitly but clearly. I think that we are supposed to be irked by the finale.

Why do I think that? Because there were a lot of small things that gave the message that, as @emsylcatac iconically put it, "this is the bad place." I touched upon some of those in my previous post on how this was a victory for Gabriel and Lila, and a defeat for Ladybug. I'll try to list them more clearly here.

Gabriel a hero

This is the one thing everyone has the most problem with. At the end, Gabriel was declared the hero who gave his life to defeat the Monarch, who was none other than himself. Some artistic choices here are so over the top that I believe they were specifically made to irk us.

If the silver statue itself wasn't enough, the exact quote of Caline Bustier is:

All the rings that have been highjacked by the Monarch have been recycled into a statue in honour of the great Gabriel Agreste.

Then Tsurugi Tomoe goes on to say:

Beyond the visionary entrepreneur and genius creator that he was, we are celebrating a hero today.

See, everything bad about Gabriel has been flipped. If you count literally exploiting people visionary entrepreneurship, sure, he was that. And genius? He couldn't get the miraculouses of two teenagers for an entire year despite having all the resources, and he ended up succeeding only with the help of another extremely powerful person (Tsurugi Tomoe) and even then he ended up dying himself.

As of creator, he was literally a destructor. He destroyed Paris more times than anyone can count, and everything was fixed every time only thanks to Ladybug. Let's not also forget how he destroyed the Miraculouses to exploit their power.

Adrien's comment about his father

This is another thing many people have had problem with. It is so outrageous that I won't believe the creators would expect us to take at face value.

At the end, Adrien acknowledges that his father died to take down the Monarch, and says:

I don't know if one day I'll manage to become like him.

Lo and behold, the man who had emotionally neglected and abused his son to no end has turned into the said son's hero and role model. Adrien not only looks up to him, but also wants to make an active effort to become like him. Hell, he even doubts if he can be as good as him.

No way this line can taken at face value. There are many children's shows with abusive parental figures nowadays (like She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, the Owl House) that have all handled the conclusion to that abuse generally well. The watchers' expectations are high in this respect; the scenarists would know that such conclusion, if not ironic, would not satiate the expectations of the spectators.

Lack of accountability: Gabriel and Tomoe

As many many people have pointed out, the general lack of accountability in this season finale is infuriating. So Gabriel mentally tortured THE ENTIRE WORLD POPULATION and not only never faced consequences in life, but also is remembered as a hero in death?

What about Tomoe?

Not only she has not faced any repercussion for being basically a supervillain, but also she is still a respected public figure who can go and make a speech backed by the mayor, in front of the freaking French flag. If that doesn't irk you, I don't know what will.

Worse is that, she goes as far as saying in her speech that:

I'll make sure to continue his legacy.

So she'll continue to be evil. Great hint that she'll continue being an antagonist in season 6.

As you can see, the new world that has been created is extremely unfair and problematic. No way this can be "the good place," an actual "happy ending."

Everything is fixed! No problems anymore!

Also, you'd realise that the world is perfect, a little too perfect. It is like a green utopian dream.

Caline Bustier has been the mayor "only for a few weeks" (direct quote from the episode), and she has already fixed all the problems possible in Paris. Not only that, she has also solved inequality and class struggle (again, mentioned by herself). Let's make Caline the President of the World already.

Funny that LITERALLY ALL THE PROBLEMS of a city could be solved, while the exact same episode showed Majestia, the freaking Supergirl of the ML universe, acknowledged in her nightmare that:

Even with all my superpowers, I'll never manage to solve all the problems of the world.

Well, Bustier says that she has no superpower, that people working together can accomplish that. Kudos to her and her democratic spirit. But like, perfect city in a few weeks? Even Mayor Bourgeois who wanted to send all the trash of Paris to space would realise that that's impossible.

There is no perfect solution, yet the world is perfect

Ladybug acknowledges that there is no perfect solution to Gabriel's situation. Trying to bring back his wife, he has caused irreparable damage to himself and to Nathalie, effectively leaving Adrien an orphan. He still hopes that Ladybug can fix it all. But she can't because of the nature of the wish: for one thing gained, another thing should be lost. In Ladybug's words:

There is no perfect wish. Every time a power is used for personal gain, it causes catastrophes. (...) We'll find a solution, but it will never be as perfect as one would wish.

Interesting, given that the world ends up being completely perfect?

All the problems are solved, literally everyone is happy, Marinette and Adrien are finally together. But the wish was made for personal gain, no? So where are the consequences? Where is equivalent exchange? The catastrophe, the price of the perfect, green, just world? I think we'll see that in season 6.

The dream world

The new world is seriously giving me weird vibes. Like it is a movie set. For those who have watched The Good Place, you'd know how in the town everything feels a bit too bright, artificial, perfect. I get the same vibes from the post-wish world.

The Agreste mansion is covered by green vines?? Way to hide the atrocities that were planned and happened here.

Here is a screengrab I found on the internet from The Good Place (the ladybug is a funny coincidence lol)

I am getting the exact same vibes!

Also, I have expanded on that in my post on "running out of time" theme, but basically in the ML universe usually the "real" stuff are associated with the night and the rain while things that happen in the sun turn out to be fake or erased/forgotten. So the feeling that I get from this finale is that, this new "perfect" world is not genuine; that the seeming happiness it brings will be soon destroyed (I doubt erased), just as it happened in other fake reality episodes like Chat Blanc, Ephemeral, Oblivio, or Jubilation. As I argued before, this is not a permanent victory. Hell, it isn't even a real victory, not with the secret Marinette is left to keep from Adrien.

Not a real victory

Another thing that makes me think that this ending is not genuine is the lack of Chat Noir in the finale. Yes, I am a fervent Ladynoir stan who was hoping for some Ladynoir action (if not reveal) and was hugely disappointed by the lack of Chat's engagement in the final fight, but now that I think of it, this may have been on purpose.

Notice how in Conformation, Ladybug says:

Our only way to win against him is to fight him together.

And yet, soon thereafter, she is catapulted into a fight with the Monarch.

Notice also it wasn't her choice to unify the miraculouses and face the Monarch alone. She had to, because Chat Noir wasn't there.

Let's remember that this show spent the entire season 4 explaining how Ladybug assuming all the responsibility alone leads to disaster, how she needs Chat Noir to share the burden with him.

Let's also remember how in season 5, especially at the beginning of it, we see Ladybug change her behaviour towards Chat Noir: she gives him more responsibilities (the Bunny Miraculous, the identity of certain holders if I am not mistaken), and how at one point she confesses that Chat Noir has been very serious and responsible lately (and then promptly develops a crush on him).

So taking on the Monarch herself is really against everything they have built up in season 4 and the beginning of season 5. That's why I think that this "victory" is so wrong: it was "won" only by Ladybug. Maybe if Chat Noir were there, he would have prevented the Monarch from making the wish (hypothetically, then we would have an entirely different timeline). If his identity were revealed the way Marinette's was, Gabriel could have controlled him through his amok. In any case, their defeat or victory would have looked very different from this.

In the end, we must remember that this world is far from being a victory for Ladybug: she has, after all, LOST. She couldn't stop Gabriel from making the wish. And while this world looks perfect, and we got what seems like a forever happy after ending for Adrinette, their happiness is set in a non-genuine victory and world.

So I think we shouldn't be angry with the show-runners: there is a reason why this ending feels and is wrong. If it were all wonderful, it wouldn't be the season finale. It would be the finale, period. And I believe that everything that has been disturbing us in this season finale will be addressed, if not consist of the core conflict of season 6. Let's all take a deep breath and turn to fan fiction or fan art till we get the new season now :) (at least that's what I'll do lol)

[ijustliketoreadstuff]

A kid thought of this!?

Ok, a kid just pointed this out to me and now I can't stop thinking about it. They said Wayhem, Adrien's #1 fan, may have a connection to Lila/Cerise. Why? Because Wayhem has a very overlooked, very subtle detail. On his shirt, is a little chameleon.

Lila is the shows chameleon, constantly changing and disguising herself as different people. Whether or not she has a connection to Wayhem, or anyone in Paris for that matter, is something we will have to wait and see.

They also pointed out that Wayhem being connected to Lila/Cerise would explain why he was so hurt over Adrien possibly lying to him back in "Party Crasher", he was hurt because he had already experienced being lied to too many times by one other person in his life he held in high regard.

To anyone wondering if we have actually seen Wayhem and Lila in the same room. We did. In the school cafeteria, episode "illusion". Lila took a picture of Adrien and uploaded it on all her social medias. Wayhem showed up a few minutes later along with a crowd of people.

One of Lila's akumatized names was literally "Chameleon". The only thing missing to complete the connection is to actually see Wayhem and Lila interact. All this from a 6 year old's little theory!

[saytr]

Ladynoir reunited in S6?

Maybe Post reveal because buttgrab

[manysad]

Adrien is so immeasurably disappointed in himself and also himself.

Meanwhile Griffe:

[edgybutnotveryedgy]

This is driving me nuts so i will make a post on it right now. So everyone knows the kawagatama right?

So in my overly extensive lore research, i learned about a certain kind of bead from ancient Japan and parts of Silla (Korea).

It's called a magatama, and you will sometimes see people wear similar beads as jewelry, like you see Mylene wearing.

I really need to emphasise that Mylene is not wearing a kwagatama. I've seen people thinking she was wearing a kwagatama but it is in fact a magatama.

From what i've read, magatamas seem to be associated with the soul.

[imthepunchlord]

Rewatching Timebreaker, in hindsight to knowing what the watch is, this intro to it makes it so weird.

Specifically the watch's ability to make a hologram.

Assuming this watch was always planned to be the Rabbit Miraculous, does that mean that all Miraculous can make holograms? Or have some unique minor ability they can do and this is what the Rabbit can do?

Which, for something related to time travel, it's kinda random.

Unless Rabbit wasn't planned to have time traveling powers, but potentially, originally was the illusionist instead of Fox.

Which wouldn't be too much of a stretch for Rabbit.

White rabbits are an iconic animal that's tied to magicians, who are expert illusionists.

To add to it, the rabbit is tied the trickster archetype. Europe has tied rabbits to other-worldliness and the fae. And there is an Indian fable of the Clever Rabbit and the Foolish/Hungry Lion. Where the Lion decreed all animals were to sacrifice themselves so he can eat, and when it was the Rabbit's turn, the Rabbit told the Lion that there was another lion nearby, and led the Lion to a well/watering hole and pointed to the reflection in the water. The Lion drowned trying to fight his reflection, saving the Rabbit and other animals from being devoured.

Which a reflection can count as another illusion.

This can even work off Alice in Wonderland as illusions can be tied to dreams, and they can be creative and surreal and strange.

As for the time motif, it can play off time is an illusion.

So IF that watch was always planned to be the Rabbit Miraculous, I wonder if it was originally the illusionist instead of the time traveler; as the ability for the watch to make a hologram is just so random.

As for Fox, given that Volpina "the False Fox" was an illusionist, there was a possibility that the actual Fox wasn't. And Thomas Astruc had confirmed that Pied Piper was a Fox (hence the flute).

Potentially, Fox originally had a power of hypnosis or subconscious manipulation through music, also working off how music can influence you.

Which this ability is what I associate Pied Piper with more than illusions, and it would work better off Fox playing the flute to use the power, as playing it to make illusions is a weird choice. Anyone hearing that music would know an illusion is coming, but not so if the music could enthrall you and influence how you perceive the world, what you register.

To add to it, this can work off the 9 tailed foxes too, I have read that some did have the ability to hypnotize; this can also work off that infamous ability to possess a target, taking over another.

A lot of this is just speculation though.

It's hard to say if the watch even was always planned to be a Miraculous, if the Zodiac were even always planned. Some things just feel like they rolled out and there were definite changes that had been made, some of which I'm sure were done to keep to the status quo easier and not drastically change up the story (like Mayura was built up to be a bigger bad and bigger threat, actually be HM's boss, but nah, that'd change up too much, can't have that).

[ladyofthenoodle]

i don’t know what is happening to lila in her final scene, but i do know one thing: if lila’s as smart as the writers want us to believe she is, she won’t be going to school to turn everyone against marinette. no, her new identity will be angling for the role of marinette’s best friend.

after all, being marinette’s rival turned out pretty well for marinette, didn’t it? but being chloe’s best friend didn’t turn out so well for chloe.

if she’s smart, she’ll veer away from the outlandish lies about jagged stone and prince ali. if she wants to play marinette like a fiddle, she’ll tell stories about the bullies at her old school and standing up to them. she won’t give adrien a second glance. maybe she’ll even make comments about gabriel agreste and wonder if he was really as great as they say. maybe she’ll ingratiate herself as the perfect confidant for a stressed marinette who’s tired of keeping secrets. even better if she can position herself in opposition to what alya is saying, especially if alya is saying a hard truth marinette doesn’t want to hear.

if she’s smart, marinette won’t even realize she’s the enemy.

[kuromori4]

MLB London special theories and Speculation!

So I’ve been thinking too much about the upcoming London special, 'At the edge of time'. Are there actually any theories floating around out there? Because I haven’t come across any and I have theories of my own.

Anyone interested?

Great! So we were recently given this new version of the synopsis:

“In the Burrow, Bunnyx sees the windows of time disappearing one by one... The future is fading away. But what’s going on? At the same time, Marinette wakes up at home to discover that someone in Paris has just made a wish thanks to the Cat and Ladybug Miraculouses. Quickly, she has to transform herself into Ladybug... but then she realizes she’s missing her earrings! Luckily, Bunnyx comes to get her just before the wish wipes everything out. Together, Bunnyx and Marinette, now Chronobug, must save the future by finding out who discovered that Marinette was Ladybug, when, and how they managed to steal her Miraculous. Marinette realizes that Butterfly Miraculous now has a new owner! “We can only hope for one thing: that Ladybug succeeds in defeating her adversary, otherwise it will be the end of Ladybug.”

And I can’t stop thinking about some of the wording in it. So Marinette wakes up to discover her earrings gone? Someone has discovered her identity and snuck into her room while she was sleeping to steal them? And on top of that, somehow, this person also managed to also steal Adrien’s ring?

Ok... so a wish has been wished and now their world is ending, Bunnyx comes to snatch Marinette up, etc, etc. 

Then we have this line: Marinette realizes that the Butterfly Miraculous now has a new owner!

Now personally, I think this is a line to throw us off the track of what’s really happening here. We all know Lila has the Butterfly. They want us to think this is about Lila. That Lila knows Marinette’s identity because she saw her transform in the end battle in S5. Especially since it seems that the blue light Lila saw is likely related to the special.

But I have one major argument against this.

How did Lila get Chat Noir’s ring? Even if Lila did know Marinette’s identity and used that info and the butterfly to steal it from her, it still doesn’t explain how the wish was made. She’d still need Chat’s ring. Since the only person who knows Adrien’s identity is Luka, I feel like this is a major plot hole for most theories.

Now, I offer my theory. And hear me out, because I can already feel the fandom raging at me.

Who has access to the Black cat Miraculous?

Who could EASILY sneak into a rooftop skylight at night without being noticed to steal Marinette’s earrings while she slept?

Who does Marinette trust wholeheartedly and would never, ever suspect?

That’s right lovelies, I’m saying what I’m saying.

I think Adrien made the wish.

What if Adrien found out the truth? About everything? After all, Ladybug knows of no particular reason not to tell Chat Noir what happened during that battle. What if he discovers that not only is his girlfriend Ladybug, but that everyone has been lying to him, his father was Monarch, that he’s a Sentimonster, and the cause of his own mother’s death?

Our boy would likely be a tad upset, no doubt. 

“But Kuro”, I hear you say. “Adrien is a good boy. He’s been tempted before, and he knows what’s at stake.”

Yes, but what was on the line then? Bringing his Mom back? Saving Nathalie? Both noble causes, for sure. But the sacrifice to be made would have been too great. It would hurt someone innocent. A price he was not willing to pay.

But what about now?

His father terrorized Paris. Hurt people. Why? To bring back his wife. Why? Because she died to create Adrien. This all stems from the circumstances of his birth. When everything is laid out in front of him, Adrien must have come to the ultimate conclusion: All of this pain and suffering was caused simply so that he could exist. 

What if Adrien makes the wish, to have never been born? If Adrien is never born, his Mother never dies. His father doesn’t become the villain. He doesn’t die either. Nathalie never gets sick, Marinette never has the burden of being Ladybug and Guardian on her shoulders. (Effectively causing the 'End of Ladybug!') Master Fu never loses his memories. Nobody suffers, nobody dies. And the sacrifice? Only himself. Ladybug often says that the wish would have to serve the greater good. Would Adrien not see removing himself as a sacrifice for the greater good? By undoing all of the damage his family caused?

The way he THOUGHT his father did in the final battle? 

Not to mention that the whole thing apparently takes place in London. Now, you might suspect that Félix and Amelie might have something to do with it, since they live in London. But might I remind you who else is in London? Adrien and Kagami, locked in the white rooms! We see Bug Noire rescuing them in the teaser!

I’d say that there’s a fairly good chance that upon his Father’s death, Adrien, already in London, might have been sent to live with his aunt and cousin, at least temporarily? (Chloe is also sent to London, though I don’t know if that will play into it at all)

Why do you think Adrien is so absent from the Promo pics and teaser? They really only show him being rescued from the white room by Bug Noire. The only pics of him on the posters are scenes from the finale of season 5. 

Particularly, the shot of him holding up HIS AMOK!

And just to add another layer to this; We have 2 potentially new characters shown, neither of which we have any idea who they are.

This dude:

And this dude:

Now, I'm not entirely sure how the first dude fits in, (Could be Lila for all we know) but this one seems to have a clock on their forehead, which is very curious. If Marinette is the one who becomes Chronobug in the yellow suit, Who is this? It’s certainly not Bunnyx. 

But hmm. Who else do we know Who has wielded the Rabbit Miraculous? Who’s identity is often hidden under a bald cap because his shock of golden hair would be a dead giveaway?

That’s right. 

THIS GUY.

Bonus question:

How does LB become Chronobug if her earrings are gone? Chrono implies a fusion between The Rabbit and Ladybug Miraculouses. Bunnyx would have the rabbit, and Mari has lost her earrings. Though, They have had 2 rabbit Miraculouses present at once because one was from another time, so potentially this could be like that. 

SO, What do you think??? If anyone has any theories to add or even to debunk mine, hit me up!!! I wanna SPECULATE!

[melonthesprigatito]

Pokémon Legends: Z-A is really out there making me dive back into certain character hyperfixations from my earliest Pokémon fandom days. I haven't thought about these people in nearly a decade

The vintage blorbos are resurfacing