#misandrynoir

[twistntweak-blog]

I'm tired of people being selective about messy ships, especially when it's a black character (possibly main) and a non-black main character. Suddenly, the morality, ethics, and/or "just be friends" police come out.

But, I've seen ships consist of a good person/serial *1ller, good person/problematic bully, good person/former g*ap1st, good person/demon from hell. AND NO ONE BATS AN EYELASH.

But the messed-up ship you like? Nope!

Suddenly, your ship triggered the time they were bumped into by accident on a busy street. 🙄

And don't get me started on the Everything-Causes-Owies-and/or-I'm-Different-Different gang. iykyk.

No one calls then out, but the moment you do the hypocrisy and weaponized trauma becomes unreal. If you hate the ship, then leave the tag alone. You can't have your messy ship(s) and eat it, too.

[corvid-on-the-rock]

one of these fucking days "transmascs experience a unique intersection of kinds of oppression" will be a perfectly fucking normal and fine sentence. that no one argues with or claims is transmisogyny. and maybe we can even assign a word to that sentence so we don't have to say the whole sentence when talking about the complex topic that is the oppression transmascs face for being transmasc. right?? right?? because its fucking true???

[drdemonprince]

i just FIND IT INTERESTING that the people who say transmisandry is a unique and real and important to discuss form of oppression dont ever talk about, say, misandrynoir or society's hatred of disabled men or fat men or any other intersections being "misandry" and the experiences of other oppressed groups.

It makes exactly 0% sense to treat "misandry" as a real locus of oppression that can intersect with other oppressions only in the context of talking about trans men, and never doing it with anything else.

Black men sure as fuck experience racism in a very particular way. but to date ive never heard someone attempt to call that the intersection between misandry and anti-Blackness, because misandry doesn't fucking exist.

either you believe misandry is a thing or your dont. if you dont think misandry is real, transmisandry as a concept is completely nonsensical. if you dont understand this please read about what intersectionality actually is and how it works and stop co-opting the scholarship of a Black woman legal scholar in order to complain about how there are more trans femme serial killers in movies than trans masc ones or whatever the hell you think youre being left out of.

most of the transmisandry posters are white trans men with a self-victimization complex who cant imagine they have both some very genuine experiences of oppression (transphobia or transmisia, whatever you wanna call it) and also significant privileges. its just so fucking transparent it makes me want to join my chinchilla in chewing the walls

[genderkoolaid]

can't reblog this post because op has be blocked but

>"i just FIND IT INTERESTING that the people who say transmisandry is a unique and real and important to discuss form of oppression dont ever talk about, say, misandrynoir or society's hatred of disabled men or fat men or any other intersections being "misandry" and the experiences of other oppressed groups."

>"in order to complain about how there are more trans femme serial killers in movies than trans masc ones or whatever the hell you think youre being left out of."

oh yeah, you clearly are very knowledgeable about the discussion around transmisandry. definitely not just making shit up based on things you've heard & making ad hoc claims about "white victimization." what a scholar of truth and logic we have here

[babsaros]

hey. when cis society is oppressing a trans man, what he is experiencing is. In Fact. misogyny. i'm sorry i know none of us like to be reminded of our agab, and it hurts whenever people perceive you as the wrong gender. but a cis person hate-criming, assaulting, verbally abusing, etc, a trans man is not doing "transandrophobia" because they do not perceive him as a man.

they perceive him as a woman failing at her gender, as a woman who has been seduced and lied to and manipulated because women are so easily led astray, just like it says in the bible. they perceive him as a woman who has been mutilated. they perceive him as a dyke that needs to be fixed. if they are hate-criming him because they *do* perceive him as a man, because he passes well enough they aren't thinking he could be trans, then they're doing so out of homophobia, perceiving him as a gay man, a pervert, a sissy, a danger to children. OR, they are being transphobic but specifically because they think he might be transfeminine instead. when cis society oppresses a trans woman, they are able to do it on multiple levels at once. She's a woman failing at her gender, a dyke that needs to be fixed. Or she's an evil and grotesque crossdressing pervert, a rude caricature, a danger to polite society. she will never be doing enough to escape oppression entirely, no matter if she gets every surgery she can and wears makeup every day and passes perfectly, because she lives under a patriarchy, and she's a woman, so she lives in a panopticon, and HAVING to get surgery and wear make-up to be respected IS oppression, especially if the alternative is being hate-crimed.

trans women (and trans men who pass) are not experiencing "transandrophobia" when a 'queer women and nbs" event turns them away at the door for being too masculine. they are. IN FACT!! experiencing the byproducts of misogyny in a patriarchy!!! where the terfs and coward cis women running those events and occupying those spaces have been taught (sometimes through experience, sometimes by men, sometimes by women) throughout life that men = stronger and more dangerous than women ALWAYS. That they need to protect themselves at all times and always be vigilant. That men and women can't be friends without sexual tension (and so as queer women the mere existence of what they perceive as a "man" is a threat). That women need a separate sports league because they can't possibly compete with someone who has even a little bit "extra" (an unquantifiable amount actually because there isn't a standard range) testosterone. That women should cook and men should fix cars. i promise you, i promise i promise i promise. it's misogyny. like!!! you don't say cis gay men experiences "androphobia", bc that's not a thing!! you sound like fucking mens rights activists guys please! you don't say a black man experiences "misandrynoir"!! because living in a patriarchy fundamentally means men do not experience oppression based on their gender. its not happening. shut the fuck up. stop walking us back to 2014 can we please take a step forward and stop bitching about this. there are genuine issues in the world and i'm frankly sick of people who should be smarter than that needing to be gently hand-held through this fucking explanation for the millionth time and still stomping their feet.

[autolenaphilia]

Glad I got e-mail notifications of replies set up because apparently people love to drop zingers in the replies and then immediately blocking me, so i can't see their replies but others can. Transandrophobia truthers love that shit. Thankfully a little thunderbird told me so i could go block their blogs manually. This has happened twice on my transandrophobia isn't real post. The last one is a reply and a full-on lengthy reblog repeatedly calling me a racist radfem for saying misandry isn't a real oppression, because it means i don't believe in "misandrynoir" or whatever they are on.

[thisismisogynoir]

were you aware that people (online) are trying to coin the term “misandrynoir” ? it’s not really my place to speak on it but idk i only ever see it mentioned on posts about misogyny, it just feels like they’re trying to redirect conversations about black women / misogynoir. feels kind of disrespectful, & i was wondering what your thoughts were

That honestly sounds just like "transmisandry/androphobia" and "antimasculinism" but for Black people.

I'm sick of marginalized men in our communities taking attention off of women in their communities when we talk about our issues! First trans men were doing it to trans women, now Black men are doing it to Black women. Just stop...ugh...when will it ever end?

[boreal-sea]

// racism, misandrynoir, accussing a police victim of being an abuser, terf receipts

www.tumblr.com/kiwitheg00n/729263701484535808/whats-your-opinion-on-men-of-color-and-george

Why hasn't Tumblr banned all terfs yet??

They can only ban them if you report them, Anon.

[gothbaseball]

tumblr 2024 prediction:

someone sees the term misogynoir and decides it needs a counterpart for the MEN and thus misandrynoir is born. we as a people collectively suffer for it.

[blaqueer]

as usual, i find myself turning to YouTube as a resource for information only to be reminded that.... YouTube is So Damn White. most things non-binary and / or trans are So Damn White. a search for "non-binary" and "testosterone" turns up almost nothing but skinny, short haired, white, non-binary people, none of whom i can really see myself in.

which is nothing new. that’s part of the reason i’m on YouTube in the first place.

beyond that, a bigger problem that i find myself faced with is that the very image / concept of "androgyny" or stereotypical "non-binary appearance" is inherently linked to whiteness. i want people to pause before they misgender me (seeing as how they will inevitably misgender me regardless) and the best way to bring about that is, presumably, androgynous appearance.

however, androgyny feels unobtainable to me as a black person, because no matter what i do-- even if i do the exact same thing as my white, non-binary peers-- the end result will always be me being read as masculine / FtM even more so than those white peers, because within society, blackness itself is already associated with [hyper]masculinity to begin with. your average white person is afforded the social latitude of self-expression to be androgynous, because societal standards of "androgyny"-- and indeed beauty in general-- have been established by white people with white people in mind.

as such, part of my internal struggle with pursuing T has always been the fact that i don't want to be read as a man anymore than i want to be read as a woman, but T will pretty much guarantee that the former happens and i'm not sure how i will be able to deal with that going forward. not only because i will be read as a man; more specifically, because i will be read as a Black Man and thus will also have to shoulder a lot of the baggage that comes with that.

and that's a really heavy thing to bear.

i feel like if i could just decolonize the concept of what "femininity", "masculinity" and "androgyny" even is-- the concept of those things that has been socially programmed into me from birth-- then at the very least i could be more at peace within myself regarding my own self-expression, even if society will forever-- with or without T-- misread me in a way that is inherently informed by my race and the lack of social latitude that it affords me.

[basketballbicker]

Best #TheRootArticles Hashtag Tweets and Misandrynoire In Media

[silver-and-ivory]

Would you like to provide some links or examples as to how police favor white supremacists over black rights activists? No pressure to respond, of course, but if you do choose to, I'm not asking for anything exhaustive. Maybe a keyword or event or two so I can research it myself. Thanks.

Ha, this is not the ask I was expecting to get about that post!

Hm.

It’s possible that this article from the Atlantic about gun control has some relevant information, but it’s not comprehensive.

So here’s a summary of what I was referencing instead. When slavery was common in the South, there were gangs of white men who would search for runaway slaves and in general police black behavior. According to some sources, modern police forces are a direct descendant of these gangs.

After the Civil War, former plantation owners and so on tried to reestablish their power. Part of the way they did this was through arresting lots of innocent black people; slavery was - and is - still legal as long as the slaves were criminals. The police didn’t function as protectors or as enforcers of the law, but instead as the implements of white supremacy.

All of this was accompanied by racist policies whereby insurance companies would devalue districts where black or other nonwhite people lived, resulting in white flight and creating ghettoes. Also, job discrimination created poverty; government welfare programs after wars and in the New Deal weren’t applied equally to whites and blacks, so that the form of welfare that blacks got ended up being more stigmatized. (For example, WWII veteran benefits included a Nice Picket Fence in Suburbia. Black people did not get that benefit.)

Skip ahead a few years the criminalization of blackness (and other minorities) continues to be a Major Problem. The police consistently act as enforcers of e.g. segregation laws. The criminal “justice” system consistently fucks over black people and forgives white supremacists, like the murderers of Emmett Till. (A little known fact is that Emmett Till had had polio, which left him with a consistent stutter. He was taught to whistle so that it was easier for him to speak. The incident that lead to his death was him whistling at a white woman. This is kind of far out there but it seems as though there’s a natural connection between these two facts.)

(Police also served as enforcers of gender normativity- there were laws that women had to be wearing three articles of men’s clothing at a time, and vice versa; also, gay sex was sometimes criminalized. The police would arrest and rape queer people routinely. This is depicted in Stone Butch Blues very disturbingly and it is also probably relevant to this Amnesty International article, “Brutality in Blue”. It’s part of what caused the Stonewall Riots.

In addition to this, the police would ignore crimes committed against queer people, turning a blind eye to queers being assaulted or raped. This is called selective enforcement and it is Very Bad.

This all means that black trans women are (likely) at a higher risk of having bad stuff happen to them; for an example, see the CeCe McDonald case.)

At some point the school-to-prison pipeline became a thing as well. The policing of black people was also extended to Latinos.

 It only gets worse with the War on Drugs, wherein President Nixon deliberately and explicitly decided to criminalize crack in order to hurt black people (and marijuana in order to hurt the anti-Vietnam counterculture). A particularly notorious example of the criminalization of [stuff black people do] is the massive disparity in crack versus powder cocaine sentencing. Crack is something poor black people tended (tend?) to use more; powder is something rich white people tend(ed) to use. So of course…

…people faced longer sentences for offenses involving crack cocaine than for offenses involving the same amount of powder cocaine – two forms of the same drug. Most disturbingly, because the majority of people arrested for crack offenses are African American, the 100:1 ratio resulted in vast racial disparities in the average length of sentences for comparable offenses. On average, under the 100:1 regime, African Americans served virtually as much time in prison for non-violent drug offenses as whites did for violent offenses. 

The disparity has since been reduced to a mere 18:1 ratio. Racial equality, eh?

This is a good time to mention that a good deal of Republican presidents, including Nixon and Our Good Friend Ronald Reagan, tried to pander to the South by being utter racists. They would deliberately say things like “welfare queens” or “thugs” or “law and order” or “states’ rights”, and the South would know that they really meant to say “fuck those uppity n-words, amirite?”. This was called the Southern Strategy. Internal records show that Nixon knew exactly what he was doing and that he was deliberately doing it; he summarizes his strategy in basically the same way I am.

At some point a narrative of black criminality started being common. Black people and black men especially were seen as threatening, thugs, brutes, less than human. They were threats to the beauty of the white women (as in Emmett Till’s case). This has also been applied to various other minorities (see: Donald Trump on Mexicans).

Unfortunately - somewhat similarly to their treatment of queers - , police are very bad at actually doing stuff about real crimes committed against black people- ie, the much vaunted black-on-black crime problem, which some people use to derail conversations about police brutality and abuses. The underpolicing of minority neighborhoods is actually an outgrowth of racism as well.

Partially due to a fear of blacks, and partially due to a neurotic fear of Communism, during the 70s or around that time, the FBI started keeping information on a lot of black activists, including the (radical! socialist!) Martin Luther King Jr. They assassinated or otherwise eliminated a lot of the black leadership. Here is a very emotional letter from James Baldwin to Angela Davis about her arrest, which is probably somewhat relevant. (Content warning for comparisons to the Holocaust.)

The media did not care about dead black people. The media did care when white college students, down in the South for Freedom Summer, started getting killed, by police forces. The involvement of white students, of course, was orchestrated by nonviolent black activists like King.

Another remarkable thing that King did was that he made going to prison a mark of prestige, rather than shame. This is really cool just on its own, but it’s even more clever when one considers the context.

Everyone knows about Martin Luther King Jr. Not everyone knows why he was so admirable, or so successful. Through nonviolence, he made clear what had been true for centuries- that the white supremacists were the initiators of violence and the breakers of peace. He actively worked against notions of black people as brutes or criminals.

Black Lives Matter and the Ferguson… thing… are reactions to hundreds of years of racist police enforcement and brutality. Conservative Republican reactions are, by and large, abysmal: whenever another black child gets murdered by the police people always try to justify it, claiming that the kid is Just A Thug. He stole cigarettes! He had his hand in his pocket. He was wearing a hoodie. He was so big and threatening. We had to tackle her to the ground because we were Just Scared. He was rude so we put him in a chokehold and ignored him saying he couldn’t breathe! They were just thugs.

As if these make someone less of a victim, or less worthy of care. As if this makes police officers less responsible for what they’ve done.

(Note that I’m not making specific claims about specific incidents- just, taken as a whole, it’s Very Very Damning.)

As a whole, the police force functions as an instrument of white supremacy. This is a disgusting perversion of the Lockean social contract and the rule of law.

And I don’t know how to solve it.

[drdemonprince]

Hey man idk what circles you've been in that only white trans men are talking about transmisandry but literally every mention ive seen of it before you was from transmen of color and it kinda seems like you're not responding to any of the transmen of color who are bringing this up?

Like ive been kinda staying out of it cuz its definitely not something that's affected me directly and I mostly just follow you for autism content anyway

And the person I follow that used to post about it has been inactive for awhile so I haven't been seeing much about it until now

So I was mostly just confused but then I found one of the guys whose posts I used to see and scrolled through his blog a bit and saw he's been responding to your posts but his reblogs dont show up anywhere but on his blog for most of the older ones

And it just seems a little weird to claim that only white transmen bring up transmisandry and then just not respond to any of the transmen of color who say they've been talking about it for way longer....

Like you keep saying its just white trans guys but its clearly not....idk im not trying to argue or fight or anything I just feel like theres a part of the conversation not being addressed here?

I think you need to re read the post, because that's not what I said. But the guys who believe in transmisandry (and believe that misandry is a thing) have a vested interest in making you believe that's what I'm saying, because it's a lot easier for them to dispute that willful misinterpretation than to argue against my actual claim.

My actual claim, again, is that it makes no sense to combine transphobia and "misandry" to create an intersection called transmisandry, because systemic misandry doesnt exist. and that it's telling that most people know better than to even try to intersect misandry with any other oppression term.

i dont see people trying to pull that shit because i follow people with an actual systems analysis of oppression. if someone does claim that misandrynoir exists, or misandryfatmisia, they are also wrong.

i dont take my cues on any social justice movements from people who think misandry exist, and the fact im not seeing it on my dash is evidence of me curating my shit pretty well! its undeniable that transmisandry takes are more common than those other ones. but wow does it suck that some people believe in the others too!

Anyone who believes misandry is a thing is wrong, regardless of their identity groups. In general white trans men have more of a vested interest in promoting it for many reasons that have been shared on this page in the past few days -- access to weaponizing white womanhood being a large one that has been mentioned. But any type of person on this beautiful earth can be wrong, and any man who believes in misandry is.

[blaqueer]

[ ... ] There isn’t any classroom, or pre-testosterone counseling session that prepared me for what it means to become America’s boogieman; a black man. What I was first acquainted with as a gender nonconforming dyke and what was further illuminated after engaging in hormone therapy and beginning to “pass” as a man of color, is that without organically derived psychological schemas, black masculinity is suspended in others’ projections, desires / fantasies, or agendas. [ ... ]

- Parker T Hurley (”Outside the XY: Queer, Black and Brown Masculinity”, a @bklynboihood​ anthology edited by Morgan Mann Willis)

came across this gem (among others) in my reading today. the first highlighted / bolded part (emphasis mine) in particular touches upon something that i’ve been thinking about for years now, but haven’t gotten up the nerve to explicitly talk about for various reasons. the latter highlighted / bolded part is all too relevant food for thought. it’s nice to see someone else articulate something that’s been on my mind for so long, but that i rarely if ever see anyone acknowledge let alone talk about. hopefully eventually i’ll be in a place where i feel comfortable enough to talk about this, but until then?

*gestures fervently at this like my life depends on it because it kinda does*