#muu theory

[shdkrsk]

Old After Pain theory I wrote during trial 1

It should still have some relevance!! (in fact, most of it still stands)

This is just a copy-paste from a drive document, so please excuse if the formatting is weird at times.

Things I’ll be referencing:

https://privatter.net/p/6558898 - translation of the blackboards

Muu’s profile, in particular these facts:

DOB: 5th of July

Age: 16

Japanese/Half French.

Wealthy.

She’s prideful and whines and cries when met with opposition.

These voice clips:

“That’s right. I killed someone. But I couldn’t help it! If I didn’t, there’d be no way to escape. I’m… not the bad one.”

“Whether what I did was ‘bad’ or not, how can other people know that? The kind of bitter experiences I had to go through, there isn’t a person out there who’d understand them.”

And, of course, the MV :)

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A few things to establish first:

There’s 6 main actors in the MV:

Muu

The girl Muu kills (I’ll be calling her Classmate) (UPDATE: we now know her name to be Rei, but just so I won't have to edit the whole theory she will still be named Classmate)

The bully trio

The girl who kills herself before the MV starts (I’ll be calling her Dead Girl)

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A rough timeline of how it seems to play out (please click on the references to read about each part): Pre-summer vacation (around April):

Muu joins her high school class

Muu joins the Bully Trio

The Dead Girl kills herself due to bullying

The class turns on Muu, blaming her for the suicide of the student

Post-summer vacation (around October):

Muu gets bullied by the Bully Trio (MV)

Classmate sees Muu get bullied, but doesn’t react to it

Muu is fed up, runs after Classmate who rejects her again, and she stabs her

MV ends

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Timeline:

The first elephant in the room is the timeline. It would be easy to say that the blackboards symbolize the start and the end of the story, but there are multiple hints as to why this isn’t the case.

The first blackboard is definitely meant for Muu. Reading the translation, this becomes very clear:

She’s mentioned by class, last name and first name, removing any reason to believe it’s not about her.

It also references her background mentioned in her profile, including her being a crybaby and her parents being rich:

The second blackboard, however, has several statements going against it being Muu. 

Muu is not drawn to wear any special makeup.

She comes from a rich family.

The flowers refer to the flowers on the desk at the end of the PV, on the seat next to Muu.

You could argue the flowers that Muu is holding are what they’re referring to, but I think combined with the other statements it’s safe to say that they’re directed at a girl who already passed (Dead Girl).

To add more proof to this being the way the timeline is supposed to be seen, there’s another detail to look at - the calendar at the side of the classroom.

In the first shot, we see this calendar:

And in the second shot, we see this one:

It’s hard to decipher the type of flower on the first picture, but the second picture seems to be the iconic Japanese flower, the sakura flower/cherry blossom.

In Japan, these flowers symbolize spring and on a calendar, they would signify it being one of the spring months (March, April and May). Coincidentally, school starts in April in Japan, as opposed to Western schools that start after Summer break.

This means the second shot is taken at the start of the school year, either the first or the second year.

This part is semi-speculation, but due to how Muu’s birthday is placed, she would be 15 at the start of the year and 16 by the end of it. We know Muu is 16, but we have no clue of when Milgram actually starts. To me, it would make more sense for her age to be 16 during 1st/2nd grade, rather than 2nd/3rd grade, but it’s hard to judge by.

Sometimes, Japanese schools also mix up classes between grades. This is another reason I believe the blackboard is at the start of the 1st year as opposed to the start of the 2nd year.

Looking at the school uniforms, she also has a lighter version of her uniform at the end shot (showing her Summer version - maybe?)

Compared to the outfit she wears most of the PV, which includes her thick sweater (Winter version?)

They change uniforms on June 1st and October 1st. Of course, this is just speculation, but it would also suggest the bulk of the MV takes place after October 1st.

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Muu was a bully, or was at least friends with them before.

At around 1:24 in the song, we see her fallen phone with a conversation open. This is the conversation:

As seen by this conversation, Muu is on a pretty friendly term with these girls, even going as far as to hang out with them outside of school on multiple occasions and giving them leftover makeup. 

The profile pictures of the girls match the Bully Trio we see in the MV:

UPDATE post-trial 2 start:

With all the symbolism of Muu being a queen bee (referencing honey, her birthday art, etc.), I’m leaning more towards her being the leader of the group during “After Pain”. It’s still hard to tell though, of course.

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Muu was ostrasized for causing the Dead Girl to commit suicide.

This one is also from the blackboards.

On the first blackboard, the one we know is aimed at Muu due to her name drop, we get comments like these:

Especially comment number 10 and number 15 suggests that they think she has done something illegal or at least morally abhorrent to the extent it would warrant such a reaction.

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Now the second elephant in the room is… who is Classmate?

Classmate seems to have a big role in Muu’s life - or at least the PV - as she’s the only character besides Muu that has her face shown.

I considered briefly if she was Muu’s sister or twin, but one of Muu’s answers during interrogation busts this:

The point where Muu kills her in the song (2:20), she sings twice: “anata ga suki yo”, translated to “I like YOU.”

This would suggest Muu has romantic feelings for, or at least very strong positive feelings, towards Classmate. It’s unclear currently how deep their feelings are, how close they are, etc. but due to her face being shown + the line “I like YOU.” I will be going by the assumption that Muu likes her romantically.

The reason Muu kills her is because she rejects her.

Classmate sees Muu being bullied (1:55), but does nothing to help her, just looks down at her as Muu lays on the bathroom floor. 

We see Muu looking up at her with the line “I love YOU.”, the circles and wide nature of the eye hinting at her being at her wits end:

She runs after Classmate, desperate and grabs onto her, once again professing “I love YOU.” in the song:

Classmate pulls away and it’s at this moment that Muu stabs her, to the surprise of both her and Classmate:

To me, it seems either Muu’s confession or cry for help was rejected (maybe both?) 

It might even be as far as Classmate rejecting Muu’s cry for help and Muu misinterpreting it as a romantic rejection indirectly.

Muu definitely seems to think that something bad was done to her:

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Summary:

Muu is a rich girl who joined a high school class when she was 15. Due to the nature of her person, being a person who values peace and having grown up being rich, she finds herself caught up with a group of three bullies that use her. They use her wealth to get extra makeup, but they also use her to help bully a girl into suicide. After the girl dies, Muu suddenly finds that everyone in class has been turned on her - calling her a criminal and such - and her old ‘friends’ are the primary bullies. 

Tired and fed up of being bullied by these girls day in and day out, she reaches out to the girl she likes (one she perhaps knew before?) and tries to ask for help. The girl rejects her, possibly due to Muu being a bully before, and tries to get away, but Muu snaps and stabs her, causing her to die and cause her Milgram Murder™.

[doctorbunny]

A little speculation about Corpse Disposal and J-horror

But I'm a little bored so sharing a part-theory, part-headcanon on Muu and Rei

So we unfortunately don't see much of Rei in "Its not my fault" but I want to point out three key times we do

The first time we see Rei in the MV, is her wet sleeve (we know its not Muu because Muu wears a pink jumper under her blazer)

Then, after a lot of bug stuff, we're finally back in the real world, where Muu has just killed her Post-After Pain. In INMF, we don't see the surroundings as well, just the dirt track and bushes. But in AP, we see this is right next to a rushing river (Muu's undercover card also features a bridge as a landmark)

The next time we see Rei after her corpse, is a flashback to the start where she turns the hourglass over. Then it cuts just further back to before Rei stood up - as she pulls herself up off the floor She's alive and absolutely soaked after a session of intense bullying (which we saw Muu insert herself into in AP)

However, I want to now switch a little to talk about cinematography and a concept called the Kuleshov effect The video I linked is pretty concise but the gist is that if you put two shots next to each other, even if they were filmed separately, the brain interprets it as a continuous scene (so if you film a character looking off screen, then a picture of an apple on a table, we're going to assume they're looking at the apple)

Therefore while we understand chronologically that the sequence of events is Rei (wet and alive) -> Rei's murder on dry land ↺ Flashback to Rei still wet and alive Which I think everyone understood as a commentary on how this power struggle was a constant cycle of the hourglass being turned over

I think visually, it also implies a sequence like Rei was bullied -> Muu kills her -> Sopping wet, Rei crawls back to the classroom

But wait! That sequence suggests a missing step How did Rei get wet again?

Well, we know Muu killed her next to a river And if you were a scrawny teenage murderer with a body on your hands, would you leave it there where someone could see it while you grab a shovel and stand in broad daylight digging a hole in tough ground??? Or try lighting a fire in public??? Of course not!

It'd be much easier for Muu to, in a panic, just roll her body into the convenient river and let all the evidence wash away!

(Of course, if Muu was panicking, she might not have been very careful. Given she ended up in MILGRAM, there must've been something tying Muu to Rei's death and in T2 Muu seems to have finally remembered losing her left shoe...)

Fun fact: this is the same shoe Cinderella loses in the animated Disney film (and the best known version of that story came into English from France)

Shoe break over, back to the Endless Queen's Game

So, if we assume Rei's corpse was thrown in the river, what does it matter? Its just a pointless headcanon

But I speculate the meaning goes deeper!

So that image of Rei, soaking wet, crawling off the floor reminded me of something: J-horror ghost girls! Specifically the most famous of ghost girls Samara/Sadako Who became a vengeful spirit after being thrown in a well and now crawls out of TVs to kill people who watched her VHS tape

Her story too is a cyclical one (its called 'Ring' for a reason), the only way to break the curse is to copy the tape and have someone else watch it, who will then become the victim unless they can themselves copy the tape and show it to another unsuspecting patsy

The story goes back further because this movie is based on a novel, which is based on the legend of 番町皿屋敷 Banchou Sara Yashiki. There are many versions but generally a maid girl Okiku is proposed to, and when she rejects the proposal, her master breaks one of ten plates and promises to forgive her if she marries him. When she declines again, he beats her to near death then throws her into a well (sometimes it's a jealous mistress instead of a master)

Interestingly, Atrophaneura alcinous (swallowtail butterfly) larvae found in Japanese wells became known as Okikumushi お菊虫 (Okiku bugs), tying back to the whole insect thing...

It's been said a bunch now, but the name 'Rei' can be read as 霊 meaning ghost (seen in words like Yuurei 幽霊, a more common word for ghost than Rei on its own)

We know Muu is afraid of ghosts too (though I must admit she says Obake, not yuurei, but both words refer to ghosts)

Remembers the i/井 in Sakurai/櫻井 can be read as 'well' I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything

Uh, I can't think of a conclusion because its 1 am and I had to look up a bunch of spooky images

TL;DR: I think Muu may have quickly shoved Rei's body into the river next to where the murder happened (maybe forgot her shoe at the scene of the crime) and now she's scared by the cycle continuing and Rei coming back to haunt her

[honeyfizzly]

I think my most meta milgram theory is that all the prisoners relate to social issues in Japan (this was brought up by my friend but they don't have tumblr so I'm gonna post it here)

Haruka- ableism, specifically against learning disabilities. Haruka's story is all about how he was born "wrong" and how his mother didn't want him

Yuno- the abortion debate

Fuuta- online harassment and cancel culture

Muu- bullying, and how in social structures someone always has to push someone else down to be on top (the whole hourglass metaphor)

Shidou- curroption in the organ donation system, and how brain death is viewed in Japan

Mahiru- societal expectations of women, and the pressure to marry

Kazui- okay so since his crime is vague rn, either A. Cheating or if gay kazui theory is correct B. Lgbtq issues, could also be japan and it's issues with intimacy and how his wife felt unloved but he didn't realize

Amane- Japan and its history with cults

Mikoto- ableism against the mentally ill, and the "just endure it" view of mental illness in Japan which makes alot of people reluctant to reach for mental health help. It's probably why Mikoto seems to not realize he had DID or OSDD

Kotoko- curroption in the legal system, and how crime against women and children are often ignored by the police

[swordlike]

Why I think Muu has NPD !

with more information from trial 3 this might change, but i have npd and for now i think this bug has it too. BTW if your weird abt people with personality disorders in the notes im stealing shit from your house ! take everything with a grain of salt, im not a therapist and disorders present differently for different people, this is just for fun. so lets get into it, all the translations are from the milgram wiki <3

belief in her own superiority, you can especially see this in one of the repeat lines in its not my fault. the imagery of the mv is also very tied to the idea of this, we know the mvs are biased, meaning this is how muu sees it herself, her being queen is only natural. 

next is muu’s sureness of her own innocence, this is of course, readily apparent. this ties into several npd traits, but mainly lack of empathy and self importance. she defends herself at every opportunity, in both audio dramas and her songs. 

while i’d consider these definitely major factors, i’m more interested in these lines from its not my fault,

her fear of being found guilty, of being caught out or wrong, is very common in those with npd, the way shes trying to set up es as special and understanding to manipulate them into not hating her out of this fear is really telling (you can also see her do this in both her audio dramas). the way she repeatedly asserts her innocence and status is also a common self soothing tactic to maintain ones ego, if she was “wrong” she would have to acknowledge that she isnt as perfect as she thinks, and this fear keeps her from even acknowledging the possibility. which is to say, i think muu is slipping into the queen bee role and imagery in the mv out of the fear she is wrong, as how npd functions is the grandiose self is a coping mechanism for poor self esteem and deep rooted shame.

manipulative tendencies, muu spends a lot of her interogations talking around es to get them to see muu as innocent, in her second interrogation with es its especially clear that shes trying to talk circles around them to get them to believe in her innocence. Also this.

she also is in the habit of using others. in the not my fault amv you can very clearly see the other girls bringing muu "honey", and one can’t so she immediately gets rid of her, for people with npd this is a common maladaptive defense mechanism, if someone stops providing you with praise or status theyll cut them out to protect themselves and thusly their ego.

people with npd, are unable to regulate their self esteem on their own and as such rely on outside praise or personal success to maintain their egos, know as "supply", which is one way you can interpret the honey in this reading.

belief others are jealous of her or out to hurt her. at multiple points across milgram muu accuses others of being jealous of her and thus out to get her, which is a common symptom of npd.

due to their belief in their own superiority and suspecting others of jealousy, people with npd are prone to hierarchical thinking and can often use putting others down as a way of maintaining their position, which would make sense since we know muu was a bully.

lack of empathy, people with npd struggle with affective empathy in particular (feeling stressed or anxious in response to others negative emotions), note muu’s lack of distress over others being hurt or upset.

avoidance of situations she doesn't like, while this may seem vague, this ties into multiple symptoms, having a large sense of self importance often can mean viewing certain tasks as bellow you or being extra adverse to things you don’t want to do regardless of consequences. she often is shown shoving her work off on other people, theres SO many examples of this one but heres just a few.

black and white thinking, not much to say about this one, this set of dialogue is also her trying to talk es into thinking she's innocent.

theres also her situation with haruka which ties into several things ive mentioned, lack of empathy, using others, etc. It's worth noting she says it makes her feel that they're friends, this probably reaffirms her own importance to her

dont really know where to put this one but. its very funny how she dodges the question.

as for how i think this could affect trial three, i think muu will either completely crash and burn and despise herself (narc crash moment) or she'll lean even harder on her grandioseness to cope.

anyways theres more i could say but this post was already getting long, maybe ill add more in an rb sometime, but in conclusion:

[blueepink07]

Short analysis of Muu's honeybee appearance in her MV

First of all, forgive me if some of the ideas presented were already discussed in the past. I, for one, haven't seen much discussion around this topic so I decided to bring this up!

The dresses that the girls wear in the bee form, seem to be made from flower petals. After some research, I have come to the conclusion that Muu's dress might be made from one of the petals of a yellow Iris (Iris pseudacorus).

Tracing back through history, the Yellow Iris has been a royal favorite. It's been woven into the very fabric of empires, from the fleurs-de-lis in French monarchy to the ornate decorations in Ancient Egyptian palaces. This flower isn't just a pretty face; it's a historical heavyweight with a knack for elegance and power.

Before going further, about the fleurs-de-lis:

It’s even debated whether the symbol is actually a lily, the flower the emblem is named after, or an iris, which more closely resembles the design and typical yellow color. One 18th-century historian even speculated that the name instead comes from the river Leie, where yellow irises are common and the Franks once lived. Another theory connecting the fleur-de-lis with an iris comes from the German word for a yellow iris in the Middle Ages—either “liesch” or “lies.”

With each use, the fleur-de-lis holds unique symbolism. In a religious context, it may denote purity. French monarchs used the symbol to denote the divine right to rule.

It's no wonder that Fleur De Lis has a connection with Muu's character, considering that she is half french, and is portrayed in the MV as the Queen Bee, such the association with royalty.

Moreover, Fleur de lis' sturdy stem represents the ever-present God who is our strength and our source of sustenance.

"God gave me everything, everything is as I wish"

Also, yellow irises are known for denoting strong bonds and warmth, ideal for demonstrating devoted friendship and happiness. Basically, it is a constant reminder of one of Muu's most beloved wishes to have a deep connection with her friends.

The other girls seem to wear, if we follow the same pattern, white irises' petals.

Something that was already noted is that the longer the dresses are, the closer the girls that wear them are to Muu. This idea is also reinforced by the hair color.

In this picture it can be clearly seen that the three girls who were shown bullying Muu in the first MV, and were the closest to her, have brighter hair.

Honey bees are most attracted to blue, purple, violet, white and yellow. Considering that they themselves are honey bees, this may symbolize the "likeness" or the "popularity" these classmates have in school.

The hair color that they have in their bee form is more exaggerated than the one in real life. It's a more saturated and brighter version, but it still resembles the original one.

The other classmates who are not as close to Muu, have their natural hair color, which looks dull compared to Muu and her friends. Like their presence is deemed unimportant, they fade/ disappear next to Muu's friend group.

However, Muu is an exception. Why bother drawing her hair purple? It has no ties with her strawberry blonde hair in real life.

I kept asking myself this question, until I found this information:

"But it seems that bees, especially honeybees, are born attracted to the colour purple. Which is really clever of them, as flowers in the violet-blue range produce the highest volumes of nectar."

Muu is the Queen Bee, having purple hair she attracts all of her subjects to be around her. It's like she is the embodiment of beauty even in her bee form, having traits which can be easily envied.

Like Es tells her:

That's all! Feel free to add your own ideas! Thank you for reading!

[1moremilgram-enjoyer]

is everyone in milgram just dead

Okay I'm making this post because while I'm not sure how much I believe this, it's a possibility that's been eating at my head for a while, so I gotta share it somewhere even if it's not the most solid theory in the world.

So anyways, hello members of the jury! Today I want to discuss the weirdly recurring theme of the prisoners in Milgram possibly being dead, and Milgram being some sort of afterlife thing. Given the fact it clearly has some supernatural elements, it certainly isn't impossible. So let's get into it!

CW Death, murder and suicide, abortion, child abuse, drowning, cults and indoctrination, waterboarding, gang violence

Yuno and the Allegations

The biggest hint that at least some of the prisoners might be dead is the in Yuno's second VD, Absolute Zero.

Yuno: Oh! Also, that reminds me, there was one thing I'm curious about. Es: What? Go ahead and say it. Y: Am I…really alive? E: That's…what do you…. Y: Hm…if you don't know, then it's fine. E: Yuno…. Y: Hey, it's time, right? E: Y-yes. Prisoner number 2, Yuno. Sing your sins.

Weird thing to say, really. So, presumably, she has some reason to believe she might be dead. Which is especially worrying because Yuno is one of the most intelligent and perceptive prisoners in Milgram, and might even have higher awareness of some of the more supernatural/meta elements of the series, as seen by images from both her cover songs appearing in Umbilical and Tear Drop.

All this is to say, if Yuno has reason to believe she might be dead, we have reason to believe so as well.

There are two points of Yuno's story were I feel she could have died. One is during her abortion, given a question from Trial 2.

(T2) Q20: Did you hate the person you killed?

Y: It was too much of a pain to for me to think about anything.

So her abortion was painful, which likely means it wasn't done in a hospital, as professional abortions typically don't cause too much pain in the moment (source), even if they can cause cramping or discomfort in the recovery period. If it wasn't done professionally, and it hurt a lot, it's very possible she may have died while performing it.

However, because of a few things we'll talk about later, I'm not sure this is very likely. The answer I find more likely is that, unfortunately, she may have committed suicide by jumping off the staircase we see her standing on in her Undercover silhouette shot.

For one, because what the hell would this shot even be otherwise. I've seen people suggest infanticide as opposed to abortion, but that wouldn’t cause physical pain (you could argue that answer is about emotional pain, but I'm not sure how much that works), it doesn't match her kill-shot in Undercover, and she herself has claimed her "muder" was abortion (and I don't see reason for her to lie about that). It also doesn't seem likely she would get pregnant more than once, seeing this question:

(T2) Q10: If you could turn back time, would you commit the same murder once again?

Y: I'd make sure that I won't have to commit it. That's it.

So, then, what the hell is up with that Undercover shot? Usually they say something important about the prisoner or their crime, but it really doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything.

This is where I bring up that Yuno falls off a staircase at the end of Umbilical.

Like, obviously this is more meant to be metaphorical, as in Yuno "slipped up" and now has to avoid falling by grabbing the balloon, which ends up destroying the staircase which had previously been related to the mixing of DNA (long story). But... she still is falling from a staircase. That is what is happening in the video. This is a silly argument, but it does exist.

Now, there's a few other things which could imply this, but that will have to wait for a moment. So while there is very little evidence for now, I'd say this is the most likely reason for why Yuno believes she may be dead. Especially given she might have depression (check out this cool post by weather-cluddy), her comitting suicide is sort of the best guess we can make I feel.

Nevertheless, no matter the reason why, Yuno believes she may be dead, which opens the door to other characters, if not all of them, to be dead as well. Let's take a look at the other prisoner most likely to actually be dead in my opinion, and see if we can establish a pattern.

Haruka's Worrying Situation

I believe, even if no one else is dead, it is highly likely Haruka attempted suicide. I am not going to go too in-depth in here, because moibakadesu already made a really good post about it, which is where I got the theory from in the first place. In fact, the idea Haruka may have at least attempted suicide has existed ever since Trial 1, check out this cool post by Venus from thinkin-bout-milgram. Here's a summary of what the main points of the theory are:

-The repeated motif of water and drowning could indicate the way Haruka killed himself, especially since he lived in Naogaka, Niigata, known as the "city of water."

-Haruka repeatedly attacks and even strangles a younger version of himself in Weakness, in one occasion alongside the lyric "I've become a victim, I've become a victim."

-The young girl in Weakness might actually be a representation of the "ideal Haruka", as he's stated his mother wanted a daughter instead of a son (I don't actually agree with this part, I do think the girl is a literal girl Haruka killed, due to several lines from his VDs, such as him saying Amane "brings back bad memories." However, it's still a possibility)

-The nonchalance with which Haruka speaks of comitting suicide in his second MV, Metamorphosis of the Weak, could imply he's already done it once.

-The line "if with one click, and I can reset everything" in AKAA can be more directly translated to "if with the push of one button I could be reborn", which paired with butterflies being symbols of death and rebirth and being connected to Haruka because of the name of his second VD, could imply Haruka died and was reborn.

-Haruka standing on a chair in AKAA as his shadow lines up with the shadow of the bars in the window to create the ilusion he has a noose around his neck.

-At the end of AKAA, Haruka is surrounded in what looks to be formaldehyde, which is used to preserve the corpses of dead animals, while the aforementioned "I could be reborn" lyric plays.

As you can see, there's a lot here, which is why I think it is highly likely Haruka comitted suicide.

There is an issue with bringing this theory in, which is that part of the theory is that Haruka's silhouette in the Undercover shot doesn't have white noise, which separates him from the others and could imply he's a victim like Hinako and Mahiru's boyfriend, who similarly have no white noise. The problem for our purposes is that this theory assumes a lot of the other prisoners, such as Yuno, may have committed suicide as well, creating an inconsistency with this point. I don't have a good answer for this, beyond a really odd, Hamlet-esque "Haruka is a victim of his own madness" kind of thing which doesn't work very well, so unless any of you have another explanation, it's best for this theory to just sorta ignore the white noise thing.

So, now we have two prisoners who very likely died before Milgram. This vaguely establishes a possible pattern: what if all the prisoners were taken right as they died?

Muu’s Mysterious Memory Mishaps

Es: You said you wanted to go back home, right? And, "suppose" we did let you… Even if you were to leave this place, you'll then have a brush with the police, won't you? Muu: *Surprised* E: I mean, you've killed someone anyway, so are the police not making a move in regards to that? M: Well, I don't know. As of now, I don't have a clear memory of what happened after I did it. And then before I knew it, I was here. E: Is… that so? M: You guys should've known that, being the ones who brought me here after all.

This line from Muu’s first VD has always intrigued me. Muu doesn’t have a very good reason to be lying here when seen in full context, so she’s likely telling the truth. But, why? Why doesn’t Muu remember anything clearly after her crime, and why was she taken so quickly after committing it?

First idea is that perhaps all the prisoners are simply taken right after the murder they’re in Milgram for; even in the case of multiple murders, you can say Milgram just decided to take them for the last one exclusively.

However, Shidou serves as a counter example, because of the ending of Throw Down.

It’s a pretty simple logical progression. Shidou has no reason to kill after the flower person dies, so their death is after his last murder most likely, and yet he does remember it happening. Thus, Shidou has a memory of something which happened an undetermined amount of time after his final murder.

That means the "fuzzy memories" thing isn't universal. This can also be vaguely inferred by the attitudes certain prisoners have regarding their "murder(s)", like Kazui for example.

Now, you could argue Muu simply doesn't remember well because of the Trauma, and she just happened to get taken shortly after her murder. However, there is a chance now that there is a reason she was taken shortly after her murder.

You know what this post is about. You know what I'm about to imply. So I'll make the observation now:

In It's Not my Fault, one of Muu's shoes is off after she kills Rei. And we have seen this imagery of "one shoe off" to represent suicide before.

It's common in Japan to take both shoes off before comitting suicide, but if you want to read into only one of the shoes being off, you could argue it represents they're "half-suicides", as Milgram also considers them murders. In that sense, you (or Muu) could argue were Muu to commit suicide after killing Rei, then she would also become "Rei's victim", the same way Hinako and Mahiru's boyfriend are Kazui and Mahiru's victims.

This idea that Muu might still be a victim in the situation could also be implied by the lyrics here:

[It's Not my Fault] It’s not my fault after all, after all. Everyone wants me to be innocent. What a relief. Can’t be helped. I’m always meant to be pitied!

(Btw I'm using the fan translation in the wiki because the English subs in that video are... odd)

Yes that sentiment is repeated a lot during the song, but Muu does shout "I'm always meant to be pitied" ("I'm always the drama queen") at the top of her lungs here.

Now, the shoe thing isn't quite like that in After Pain, but we never actually see Muu's shoes in the real world, only in the blank inner world with the broken hourglass, and there are other inconsistencies with reality there, namely Rei's body's position.

You can see her right shoe is on there, but again, this scene isn't real.

The concerning thing is that apart from that, After Pain does not help Muu beat the suicide allegations.

In particular, look at the scene of the photo I put there. You can see there's a bunch of people judging Muu for her murder, as it's usually not considered a socially acceptable thing to do. But, hold on, didn't Muu say she didn't remember anything after her murder? Correct! That means she doesn't remember this "judgement" happening, but she imagined it would. Perhaps that's what the one line means:

[After Pain] Counterattack being a suicide note

Counterattacking Rei, killing her, is social suicide. For obvious reasons.

...

But it's still called a suicide note, which is not a good look. And yes, I do think the Japanese lyric explicitly references death, though take that with a lot of salt since that's just Google Translate and DeepL talking.

In fact, that entire set of lyrics is pretty odd.

[After Pain] Let’s meet up inside the pain, a place just for me Postmortem makeup to hide my heart, how to solve it is a secret The stabbing of the little devil’s voice, counterattack being a suicide note “I love YOU”

"Meeting up inside the pain" probably refers to hurting Rei, so now they're hurting together. The "stabbing of a little devil's voice" is probably referring to dangerous impulses, so murderous thoughts. "Counterattack being a suicide note", already explained. "I love YOU", because Muu is a girlkisser.

But the "postmortem makeup" is odd. You could argue the "death" which happened before the "makeup" was applied was the "death" of Muu's reputation, her old persona. Rei "killed" "that Muu", and now Muu is hiding her real feelings with "postmortem makeup."

But then, why would the method to solve it be a secret? Who is she keeping it secret from? Rei, and all of Muu's old 'friends', all know what lies beyond that makeup, they all saw what Muu was like before Rei stepped in.

That means there's another interpretation. If her real feelings are a secret, there's only one person they would be a secret from. Es (and us by extension). In a way, After Pain is hiding part of her heart, the less sympathetic parts shown in full in It's Not My Fault. Muu being a bully was already implied in After Pain, mind you, but it was still relatively "hidden", at least compared to It's Not my Fault.

And if that is the way we're meant to read that line, we run into the allegations again. If the makeup is for Milgram, and it's "postmortem" makeup, then Muu is already dead.

And that's without mentioning how much After Pain seems to imply suicidal tendencies in general.

[After Pain] If I was gone, If I had just disappeared I overheard, I found out How much I’m not needed There’s no special meaning, I got the short end of the stick I overheard, I found out How much I’m not needed

I don’t want tomorrow to come, I want to forget yesterday I was miserable, someone please help me

Maybe I’m done Just one more time before saying goodbye I’m just kidding, please forget I said that

The only lyric that doesn't seem to imply it is:

I want to feel “alive”, is it ok if I breathe?

But feeling alive and being alive isn't quite the same, right? You can be alive without feeling alive, and if someone doesn't feel alive, it's possible they're not a very good state of mind.

So, what could this all imply? If we're going with the idea of murder-suicide, it's possible Muu was very worried about how people would hate her after the murder, as implied by After Pain, decided she didn't want to deal with that, and unfortunately made the decision to kill herself.

One small thing which could serve as a counterpoint is her Trial 1 Voice Reveal distorted line.

Fufufu... It's your fault... for doing horrible things to me.

She seems pretty sure of herself here, and it's very likely this is after her murder. But it's perfectly possible she said this initially, then thought about the social consequences, and that's when she started to feel bad. It's also worth noting the only time in It's Not my Fault where Muu seems to hesitate is right after her murder.

[It's Not my Fault] Wait, wait, just as a hypothetical. What should I do if I’m actually a bad girl? Don’t ever hate me, and don’t look for what lies “after and from” the pain.

This is immediately after the murder, when she comes out of a caccoon, presumably her arriving at Milgram. So, she was initally confident, that's when she says "I’m always meant to be pitied!" in It's Not my Fault and presumably her Voice Reveal line, then hesitated and started to feel awful as we see in After Pain.

... Well, there's also the way more uncharitable reading where Muu killed herself so people also pitied her instead of just hating her for killing Rei, but that's a bit too dark and in bad faith for my tastes. It is there, though.

So, yeah, Muu may be dead too. And she brings with her an interesting implication; the prisoners may not have clear memories of the events leading up to their death. So, even if some of them committed suicide, it's possible they simply don't remember ever taking the decision to do so, explaining their behavior in the prison.

And it also could explain away... one apparent contradiction. One which exists outside of this theory, but that this theory could explain.

Amane and the Voice Reveal Trailers

As most of you know, the Voice Reveal trailers for all these characters contain certain distorted phrases which in general seem closely linked to their murder. And as pointed out by blueepink07 in this post, it seems the First Trial Voice Reveals are things the prisoners said after their murder, while the Second Trial ones are showing a point before their murder. Check out Kazui's, for example.

(T1) "I'm so dumb... Why did I have to dream?"

(T2) "Hinako, I love you more than anything."

There's also Muu's, since I've already brought it up before.

(T1) "Fufufu... It's your fault... for doing horrible things to me."

(T2) "Hey..why don't you listen to me...? I'm telling you... Hey...HEY, I'M TALKING TO YOU"

The second being right before she killed Rei.

That works well enough for all the prisoners... except Amane.

(T1) "Ahh! I'm so sorry...! I'm sorry...! I'm sorry for breaking the rules!"

(T2) "Father is a very praiseworthy person. Once [my/his] virtue increases, he'll come back home, right? It's a little lonely, but I'm fine!"

In theory, Amane would have been punished before her murder, as we see happen after she heals the cat in the taser scene. Meanwhile, if she's lonely without her father, it could perhaps be because her mother is dead after Things Happened (yes I'm going with Mother!Victim theory on this one).

But that's not the case. Following the pattern, the line about her father coming home at some point is before her murder, and apparently, she was punished for breaking some kind of rule after her murder. The implication here, horrid as it is, could be that her father returned home after she killed her mother and punished her for doing so.

Thankfully, this is impossible. After all:

(T1) Q18: Do you regret your "murder"?

A: No. It was a natural obligation.

(T2) Q3: State the name of your victim.

A: There is no victim. Only the punished.

(Taking some liberties on the translation of Trial 2 since the questions are still coming out as I write this)

So Amane genuinely believes she was following her cult's principles to a T when she killed her mom. As much as that likely isn't the case (long story), if she had gotten punished for killing her mom, then she wouldn't think like this. If she had been punished for it, she wouldn't think her murder was a "natural obligation", but rather a mistake on her part.

What this implies is that Amane doesn't remember being punished by her father.

...

Amane... doesn't remember...

Fuck.

Yeah, remember when I said it was possible the prisoners don't have clear memories of the events leading up to their death? Going by the "T1 after - T2 before" logic the Voice Reveals seem to follow, we can infer Amane was likely punished for killing her mother, but we also know she can't remember it happening, otherwise she would regret it. And based on what we learnt from Muu, we do have a way to explain how that could happen. If Amane died while receiving the punishment the T1 Voice Reveal alludes to, she wouldn't have a clear memory of it.

And the thing is, it does seem likely Amane received this punishment. Think about it. Interrogation questions are one thing, since the creators don't fully control them, but why mention her father would possibly return home in the Voice Reveal trailer? Unless he did. Hell, you could argue we might know the exact moment he returned. Amane does look at the entrance of her apartment at the end of Purge March, though that could simply be for dramatic effect rather than being a literal thing which happened.

But there's more. Because if her father returned home, we might actually have an answer for another one of the mysteries surrounding Amane's situation. The Undercover prisoner card.

The image on her card seems to show a bathroom. It is widely assumed the images on these cards are the location the murders happened in, but to my knowledge, this isn't 100% confirmed. However, this creates a small issue with Amane. Just looking at the murder shot in Purge March is enough to confirm that.

I made a more detailed theory on her murder on this post, diagrams included (scroll to the bottom if you're only interested on the murder), but for now, there are two things to note here. One, there's a trail of water which seems to come out of the door with the light on, as the puddles are bigger the closer they get to it, implying that room is the bathroom. And two, the room the murder actually happened in seems to have a window/door behind a curtain, which isn't what Amane's bathroom looks like.

Adittionally, there isn't any blood outside of the murder room, implying the victim's body wasn't dragged there.

All this seems to imply Amane's victim didn't die in the bathroom, which is sorta a problem considering the previously mentioned commonly accepted theory. But this idea that Amane may have died while being punished, perhaps while being drowned as we know that's one of the accepted methods of punishment in her cult, brings up a different possibility.

What if the images in the prisoner cards aren't showing murder location? What if they show the last place the prisoner was seen in, the place they died?

Kotoko, Mikoto, and the Prisoner Cards

So, first, is there any indication either of these might be dead? For Mikoto, not really. Sure, there's the whole Death card at the end of MeMe thing, but that doesn't have to be taken so literally.

Kotoko has a very little potential hint in the fact she's shown alongside a wolf at the start of HARROW, but by the end the wolf is by itself. If the wolf represents a potential partner (long story), then maybe Kotoko died?

Though you can easily argue the wolf is slightly different and thus is meant to just represent Kotoko.

However, the reason I'm bringing them into this is because their prisoner cards are completely nonsensical under "murder location" theory for the images shown. Let's start with Kotoko.

It shows an alleyway, which at first seems like it makes sense. We do see her attacking a man in an alleyway. However, after that happens, one of the pieces of background text says this:

◆ A wanted thief was assaulted by an unknown assailant Early yesterday morning, a nearby shop employee reported hearing screaming and seeing a man lying on the ground. According to the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department, the man had lost consciousness after being beaten on his face, stomach, and other areas, and was taken to the hospital. The police are currently trying to identify the suspect. [...] According to previous investigations, the male victim was wanted throughout Tokyo for theft and assault charges and was identified as the suspect, Mikio Oshii.

(Translation by Maristelina)

Mikio Oshii is the name of the man Kotoko assaulted in the alleyway. It seems odd to me that we would learn he was taken to the hospital if he later died in it somehow, especially because Kotoko didn't want to kill him. We can clearly see this because of a crucial difference between her attack on him and her attack on the serial killer who likely is her victim.

She covers her face while attacking Oshii, because she doesn't want to be recognized. She is committing assault, after all. However, that only matters if she's planning to keep him alive. Conversely, she doesn't cover her face while attacking the serial killer, because she knows he won't be a witness. She went into that warehouse planning to kill.

Of course, she could have accidentally done too much damage, but the issue there is that she would probably express some remorse in that case. She doesn't, and the fact she only ever talks about one victim-

[TASK (T1 VD)] I did kill someone. [...] I don't have a single regret.

-it really seems like Oshii was able to survive her attack.

That creates an issue with her prisoner card. It shows an alleyway, but her only victim died in a warehouse. As confusing as that sequence is, he did die in the warehouse.

You know when we do see an alleyway again, though?

But she's not wearing her face covering. And if this was the alley with the one sign about a car accident that shows up over and over in HARROW, I'd imagine we'd see the sign, even if it was obscured in some way. So once again, a silhouette shot which seems to have nothing to do with her murder or her general situation.

So, is it possible she died in this alleyway? That's the only other reason I can imagine why it'd show up in her prisoner card, so. As for what exactly happened, I imagine she may have been murdered at the whim of her victim's father?

Shocking revelation: The heinous criminal behind the crime is the privileged son of a high-ranking official!

(Article referring to Kotoko's victim)

So, she got found out and immediately assassinated? It's a bit out there, but it would explain both her prisoner card and her attitude in the prison.

And then there's Mikoto.

As you can see, his card shows a street. The issue with Mikoto is one of format. The cards only ever show one location, but we know Mikoto has at least two victims.

[Text: To the right, the Subway Murder, which clearly has a ceiling. The murderer has blood on his right cheek, his left cheek is hidden. There's also the bathhtub scene, where the right cheek is hidden, but the left cheek has blood already trailing off, which doesn't quite fit what we see in the other murder if you think about the bath chronologically.

To the left, a murder out in the street, with an open sky. The murderer has blood on their left cheek, but not on their right. This is seen in both the crime and the shower scene]

So yeah, at least two. You could argue the bathtub murder is actually a third one, which... huh. Two things that absolutely exist and a Secret Third Thing, the existance of which is disputed? Trikoto vibes.

Point is, Mikoto has two different murder locations at least. The street, yes, but also the subway. This creates a problem with the "images in the prisoner cards are murder locations" idea, because it only shows one. You could try to gymnastics your way out of this by saying maybe Hostkoto committed the street murder while Orekoto killed the other victim(s), and because only Hostkoto is considered a prisoner by Milgram, only his murder is shown? But I feel that raises more questions than it answers.

Instead, if we assume the images to be death locations, the ambiguity disappears, because Mikoto as a system can only have one death location. The issue is you have to explain how Mikoto died in the middle of the street, which is a bit difficult.

The best guess I can give is related to the subway victim. It's been pointed out before that guy looks a lot like a stereotypical Japanese delinquent, which could imply he was part of a gang. If that's the case, it's possible the killer angered the wrong people by killing him, similar to Kotoko, and thus was later murdered himself. We know that street isn't very safe, on account of one of the alters getting away with murder there. It's a pretty large stretch, and has like zero evidence, but it's physically possible at least.

Let's take a quick look at the other prisoners and see if their images can also be explained by the "death image" theory.

We know Muu would share a death location with her victim if she really committed suicide as the theory states, so nothing weird there. Haruka's a bit more awkward, because it shows the forest he very likely killed the girl in, but I'm not entirely sure if the forests near Nagaoka has bodies of water deep enough to drown oneself. There is the Shinano river, which has... trees, around it.

This was taken from Google Street View in Nagaoka. Again, not sure how deep it is, but assuming it's deep enough to drown, it could work if you ignore the trees don't look too much like the ones irl. Maybe Haruka threw himself off the bridge?

Alternatively, Nagaoka borders the sea, and it seems like there's forest almost all the way up to it. So maybe that could work? Unsure.

Worst comes to worst, we can maybe change it to saying Haruka didn't drown himself, but killed himself in some other way in the forest. Point is, I think Haruka's isn't too big of an issue.

Fuuta, Mahiru and Kazui don't have a lot of evidence towards what the hell would have happened, but the best assumption I can make is they all committed suicide because of guilt. Fuuta in his room, Mahiru in the suicide forest (likely also where her boyfriend committed suicide), and Kazui by jumping off a building like Hinako. As for their evidence...

>Fuuta burns at the end of Backdraft, which is the same thing that happens to Killcheroy, so you could argue that's meant to show he's dying. It's not great, it absolutely is just meant to be metaphorical most likely, but it is there.

Additionally, he's also an outlier for the "muder location image" theory, since what one would consider his "murder location" is very ambiguous. Is it his room, where he sent online hate from? Is it Killcheroy's room, where she assumedly died? Wouldn't it be the front of Killcheroy's house, where Fuuta took the picture to dox her? Again, death location is less ambiguous.

Fuuta's attitude during Trial 1 could be seen as a bit weird if he was suicidal, but I'm not sure we can comfortably say that with the limited information we have.

>Mahiru in I Love You goes to sleep after seeing her boyfriend dead, which could be read as her committing suicide. You know, if you're insane like me.

Especially given this question from Trial 1:

(T1) Q20: What do you think about smoking?

M: I've never smoked before, but I might copy him if who I love smokes.

That, alongside a lot of the bg text from TIHTBILWY, implies Mahiru likes the idea of copying her lover. Not the greatest quality to have when your lover commits suicide.

>Kazui has this:

Where the smoke of his cigarette turns into a noose. Of course, that's meant to represent self-destruction in general, but it could also be taken more literally. He... doesn't have much else.

Thus, everyone else vaguely fits the idea of "death image"... except him.

Our favorite headache inducing doctor strikes again! His card shows a hospital room, which is a very strange death location, but perfectly fits his murders. You could argue he runs into the same issue as Mikoto, but it's actually possible Shidou just killed all his victims in the same room, so.

Yeah, Shidou's probably the biggest counterargument for this theory. Because while it's possible he died in a hospital, there is zero evidence for it, beyond the image itself. Hell, neither Throw Down or Triage ever seems to imply he died in the first place, which is an issue. This theory's already heavily dependant on the extremely flawed "you can't disprove it" argument, but at least most of the other ones have some kind of logical progression which gets you to how they died.

So, to complete the theory, we have to make the pretty big jump that Shidou died inside a hospital room, without knowing how that happened.

... Wait, inside the room?

Wait wait wait, show me Fuuta's and Amane's again.

Hmmm... 0308... hmmmm... 0308... I totally didn't just do this to put the two together... hm...

Yeah, same thing. They both show the inside of a room. Which, along with Shidou's, shows that these images can show the inside of buildings, right?

But, then... why is Yuno's outside?

That very clearly isn't the inside of a building. But this generates a problem for the "murder location image" theory, because Yuno's "murder" was abortion. Even if it wasn't done professionally, she would have still done it inside, presumably. This creates an inconsistency with Fuuta, Amane and Shidou. If their murder locations are shown from inside, why is Yuno different?

However, this inconsistency disappears if we assume the images to be death locations. I previously established if Yuno died, she likely committed suicide by jumping off a staircase, which does vaguely fit this image. It's similar to Kazui's in that way.

Now, I don't want to get too ahead of myself here. Murder location is still absolutely the more straightforward answer, but it does come with its issues. As stated, Fuuta's image would face some ambiguity, Mikoto's would face extreme ambiguity, Amane's seems to contradict the evidence we're shown in Purge March, Yuno's is wildly inconsistent with the other images, and Kotoko's is straight up nonsensical.

Meanwhile, death locations physically work with all the cases, even if Shidou's case is extremely weird, but it requires huge assumptions and stretches. It relies heavily on how impossible it is to disprove, which is not a good sign. Russell's Teapot, and all that.

Summary of the Theory

>Everyone in Milgram is dead, and their prisoner cards in Undercover show the place where they died.

>Prisoner's memories of the events leading up to their deaths are extremely fuzzy, explaining why only Yuno seems to even suspect it.

+Haruka: Committed suicide by drowning himself, possibly in the Shinano river or the sea. [Most likely to be dead]

+Yuno: Committed suicide by jumping off the staircase we see her standing in on her Undercover silhouette shot. [Most likely to be dead]

+Fuuta: Committed suicide in his room out of guilt. [Very little evidence]

+Muu: Murder-suicide, she committed suicide after killing Rei. [A bit more evidence than others]

+Shidou: Died in a hospital room [???]

+Mahiru: "Copied" her boyfriend by killing herself in the suicide forest. [Very little evidence]

+Kazui: Jumped off a building, like Hinako. [Very little evidence]

+Amane: Drowned by her father as "punishment" for her murder. [Unfortunately, sorta likely]

+Mikoto: Murdered by one of the members of Subway Victim's gang. [Sort of filling in the blanks here]

+Kotoko: Murdered at the order of her victim's father. [Very little evidence]

Conclusion

Do I believe this theory? Honestly, I don't know. It makes a few too many assumptions for me to fully believe it, but I do think it's a decent possibility, so I wanted to share it with you all. In any case, that's all I have to say for now. If you have any thoughts about any of this, feel free to share! Also I didn't even touch on Es but you can try to fit them in somehow if you feel like it.

Anyways, if you made it this far, you deserve a hug, this post was depressing. Take care!

[givemeanaccountalready]

"Undercover" Makes Me Suspect Things

I went into watching "Undercover" thinking I could make a fun analysis post, and now I just have a Tumblr post with enough red string that I could make scarlet letters for all the Milgram prisoners.

Let me just address the elephant in the room: I understand that Es's "Undercover" probably just serves as a hook to get people's attention and that I am probably reading too much into this. But consider this, wouldn't it be great if I'm right? Now, right about what exactly?

Well, namely, I think Es's song is either a prophecy/warning, or it was not extracted until the three trials ended or at least after the first trial concluded because Es seems to know far more than they should about the prisoners if this song was extracted after the first day of Milgram when Es and Jackalope's voice drama took place.

Now, “Undercover” is very fast, and even at 0.25x speed, I constantly had to rewind and pause to take screenshots. A picture is worth a thousand words and holy guacamole, there were so many frames. To be honest, even if I don’t have the words for everything, I will be showing off what I found to be the most interesting.

The Song Extraction Device & the Panopticon:

First, I want to get into the Song Extraction Device (SED). We know from Jackalope’s “This is Milgram” that the SED can pull mental images from a person’s mind and turn them into a music video. Thanks to Jackalope, we also know the SED can’t pull them all in one go, hence the three trials. Jackalope also states that the verdict of a trial will affect what the SED will pull in the succeeding trial. In the opening and closing shots of "Undercover" we can see that 000 is stamped in its red button/latch.

When I rewatched the “This is Milgram” video, you can see the rooms in the Panopticon spinning on the projection board. In the first voice drama with Es and Jackalope, “Es”, Jackalope tells Es to think of the Panopticon as a clock, with the entrance being the 12 o’clock position and the prisoner rooms being the rest of the corresponding numbers. You can see the room numbers on each room. The first room moving clockwise from the entrance is 001, but the first room moving counterclockwise from the entrance is 000, not 011.

In “Es”, Es asks if there was someone in that room at the 11th o’clock position. They even note that the door looked even older than the others thanks to the rust, and it didn’t even have a lock like the others. Jackalope tells Es not to worry, and before Es can even respond, a bell rings, and Jackalope diverts the conversation by announcing that the prisoners should be waking up soon.

The normal pattern is voice drama, then musical number, but to be honest, I don't know for 100% certainty if the voice drama came before the musical number. I would assume so, but you know what they say about assuming. It would be interesting if Es, because they are different from the ten prisoners, had a musical number and then woke up to have their voice drama with Jackalope. The 000 room is very suspicious to me. It's the oldest room, and if it used to be Es's, then that is a point to the Es is the eleventh prisoner theory. My only point detracting from the Es is the eleventh prisoner theory is that Es didn't get a second song during the second trial like the ten prisoners receiving. That, and besides the amnesia, what made Es so special that Milgram inducted them into their odd prison? Did Es prevent a murder?

Bookend Frames & Chalk Es:

Let’s kick things off with the bookends. We open up on Es walking towards the SED with Jackalope following him, and then the song closes with only Jackalope in view.

Bookends are a framing device primarily used to link the beginning and end of a story in a satisfying way. The ending can be a word for word copy of the beginning, or it can be a mirror of the beginning.

The most obvious mirror moment is the beginning shot ending on the SED opening up and the ending shot starting on the SED closing. The location of both shots are the same and the fog seems to be about the same amount and concentrated in the same area in both shots. Jackalope is on the viewer’s left at the start, facing the viewer, and then at the end, he’s on the viewer’s right with his back towards the viewer. But Es is gone.

Where is my child cop, Jackalope?

Let’s focus on the opening shot. We have Es and Jackalope entering from the viewer’s left, which is stage right. While I was trying to get a good shot of the two in the opening, I noticed that Jackalope spends a considerable amount of time in the fog compared to Es. It could just be that Es is considerably bigger than our most honorable warden, Jackalope, and that the mist is heavily concentrated on stage right. Since Es has amnesia, perhaps the fog he walks through is literal brain fog or just the intrigue of Milgram in general. Intrigue fits why Jackalope is so hidden in the beginning. It's not deep or hidden, but it is nice and straightforward.

Right before the third chorus, Es sings, “losers please exit left.” Did Es exit stage left from the frame? Did Jackalope follow him across the stage but didn’t step offstage? But here is what really skeeves me out about Es not being in the ending. The song ends after the last chorus, and once Es finished the third and final chorus, we see what looks like a chalk outline of Es. Es is not wearing their full prison guard uniform. Their hat and cape/cloak are missing.

Now, chalk Es first has their back turned to us and is watching the prisoner montage. Their silhouette is hazy at first, but it becomes more clear as the montage continues. And then they turn around. I don't know what causes Es to turn around, but they look like they are trying to figure out what caught their attention. Then, what seems to be a spotlight directly overhead turns on, blinding Es so they shut their eyes. They bring up their hand to their eyes and they open them again. Their eyes adjust, and they make something out. Whatever it is/was, it appears to have surprised or shocked Es.

Now, Es isn't exactly stoic. They're very touchy about their role as prison warden, and they become very agitated whenever the prisoners throw them for a loop. But chalk Es doesn't lash out like Es does in the voice dramas. They may not have had the time to react, but even when Orekoto was beating the crap out of them, Es was still taunting him. Something definitely caught chalk Es off-guard. The question is what exactly is capable of rendering him silent.

I think it has to do with whoever is running Milgram. We know Es relies on social hierarchies to maintain a sense of control. They lash out when the prisoners, their social inferiors, disrupt that hierarchy and act familiar with them. I don't think Es would lash out if it was their superior in Milgram. Es can be short with Jackalope and even tease him, but they tend to take Jackalope at his word, albeit with exasperation for the not-rabbit's antics. Perhaps, it's not a superior calling for Es's attention, but something Milgram is doing to the prisoners. Something that goes against his firm belief that Milgram is all-good.

The Prisoners & the Choruses

(EDIT: WHOOPSIE DAISY. It turns out that Milgram had changed the subtitles for the third anniversary. The vibes between the lyrics quoted below and the original one are quite similar, but let me do a quick review and reblog for corrections.) While the lyrics played over the prisoners aren’t directly pulled from their respective Trial 1 songs themselves, all of them reference the titles to their respective Trial 1 songs (see bold).

I only highlighted one of Kazui's "half"s since it was not doubled like MeMe was for Mikoto.

The information presented in each two line sets is not something Es could have known before the trials began. Es can only remember their name and age. This is what got me thinking that maybe "Undercover" takes place between the first and second trials, or after all the trials had been completed. At first, I thought maybe "Undercover" took place before the three trials had even started, and this was what Milgram was erasing from Es's mind: his knowledge of what they had done. Because during the third and final chorus, we see the prisoners 'kill' Es just like how they killed their victims. Did Es learn of their crimes and had to have his memories removed to ensure a fair three trials? Or is this even the first time these prisoners have been tried through Milgram's system?

Here are the two line sets overlaid on the prisoners during their respective mugshot montage.

Haruka: “If you say INNOCENT, you’re complicit and weak / I’m so lonesome, please love me”

Yuno: “My cord is being pulled but nothing’s ever enough / Contractual desires, oh what to do”

Fuuta: “Hiding and seeking from sin / Bring it, submit, and also shut your trap”

Muu: “Clutching a broken heart / The pain’s still there, after all this time”

Shidou: “Which way will you throw down your weight / To be the deceived, or the deceiver”

Mahiru: “I don’t wanna just give / Giving and taking, this is how to be in love”

Kazui: “I just keep on dreaming / half in, half out, I’m doomed”

Amane: “The magic is in believing / There is no righteousness in broken promises”

Mikoto: “Don’t you lie about Me / Me, I’ve done nothing wrong”

Kotoko: “Dedicating my life / Harrowing, burying the thing I want erased”

During the third chorus of the song, we get a rapid sequence of frames that are supposed to clue us in to each prisoner’s murder. But what I did not notice during my previous viewings was that the expressions and the positions of the prisoners during the first chorus change to something different in the second chorus.

Haruka & Yuno:

Fuuta & Mu:

Shidou & Mahiru:

Kazui & Amane:

Mikoto & Kotoko:

You can see that the lyrics overlaid on the prisoners in the first and second choruses match, but that may just be luck on my part. Or maybe it means something, I don't know anymore.

Something clearly happened between the first and second choruses. I think that the first chorus images were the prisoners' reactions to being dropped into Milgram, but what caused their second chorus expressions? Is this supposed to be their reactions to being moved out of Milgram? Something is clearly happening, and they are restrained. Kazui looks like he is avoiding a hit while Kotoko is rearing up to charge full-steam ahead. They're both the heavy hitters of the ten prisoners. Amane, the youngest, smallest, and weakest prisoner, is stumbling backwards like she was hit or she was scared enough to try and retreat from harm's way. The remaining prisoners look scared and/or worried. What exactly is going on here? Is something happening to them? Or to Es? Mikoto (must be Bokuto) and Mahiru are leaning over like they are checking up on someone. Are they escaping? Do we get an escape musical number to conclude the series? How baller would that be?

Very, but in all seriousness, something is up. There's just something about "Undercover" that is making me pause. This very well could all be useless speculation, and "Undercover" is canon in the way that the timeline conversations are canon without actually aging the characters.

TL;DR: Milgram is sus, and come the conclusion of this series, I have a <2% chance of being vindicated.

[yourpersonaljaskier]

Hello hello! I watched Whitepine and now I'm insane! I also watched a theory video! I'm very insane and I need to ramble as to what I think is going on

Theory will be under read more, spoilers ahead

First things first:

Who is mrs. Hemlocke, and how long has she been dead?

So, some things to establish the estimated time period:

- steam locomotives and steam engines are around (meaning it's past the year 1712)

- The colour black may be associated with the mourning period (early roman period til the 20th century, now very well known because of Queen Victoria, who mourned her husband for 4 decades til the the early 1900's and wore black daily)

These bring us to a rather specific time frame between 1712 and before the 20th century

Black doesn't seem to be a very 'fashionable' colour, as the theory video I watched relied quite heavily on the idea that the Hemlocke family is in mourning. While the idea in of itself isn't a bad idea, I heavily disagree with this notion for 3 simple reasons:

1. The family isn't in ACTUAL mourning! They wear black clothes, yes, but there's no other indication they're in active mourning. They wear colours not permitted by the mourning rules created by Queen Victoria (assuming they're in England due to the name Whitepine and the general outlay of architecture), which was from 1861 til 1901 iirc, which is a HIGHLY likely time period they were in. Zam participates in hunting, the household isn't in mourning (the women aren't wearing any amount of mourning regalia, ie, veils, jewelry, full black attire, similar with the men), the HEAD BUTLER doesn't tell Ivory about the passing of the hear mistress (which MEANS the mourning period is long over and the topic is dead at this rate, Ivory doesn't need to be a genius to figure out why the mistress is never mentioned), Izzy permits Ivory to be the piano, so on and so forth

2. Serapter doesn't know why the piano room was empty. Her death was before his time, and he seems plenty adult to me.

3. There were no search parties (if she had disappeared), there were no funeral arrangements, no active mention of her or her recent passing, and black clothes are not an indication of a mourning period.

These, to me, are clear signs that the family, at least the children, have long moved on.

Now, how long has mrs. Hemlocke been dead?

Well.

Let's look at the Hemlocke children. So far, we only know that Pyro is the oldest, with the others having to clear indication of when they were born. But, to me, the Hemlocke children all seem to be of a similar age. There are no tutors or extra teachers for the women to learn etiquette, Zam goes hunting and invites Pyro with him, they seem to go out semi regularly as known bacherlors (as none of the children are married), and seem to have a close bond with how they interact with one another

None of the children seem teenage-d to me, but we'll see as the show progresses

In my mind, mrs. Hemlocke died when the youngest was a few months old. It makes the most sense with how the family and household act around her death and items. The piano was moved but is still taken care of. It's tuned with no obvious dust, out of sight and out of mind but with instructions to keep it in good shape

Izzy easily absolves the previous order to not let anyone touch the piano, meaning it's been long enough where she finds it doesn't matter if someone plays it, and as Clown mildly implies, it seems that the order was given by Zombie, as he advises Ivory to not make too much noise

Obviously, as mrs. Hemlocke was the mistress of the estate, all the older staff would have been relatively fond of her and followed whatever wish Zombie made about her items, but as Serapter doesn't even seem to know as to what some of the rooms are for (like the piano room), and that he 'forgot [the piano] was down there,' quite heavily implies her death was wayyyy before his time

To compress: Mrs. Hemlocke died perhaps decades ago, to a point where none of the household is in mourning and have seemingly moved on, with new servants being unaware of the affects her passing had on the family (ex. Serapter)

Who killed Mistycat, and why do people think it's the forest?

I personally think the forest has got absolutely nothing to do with Mistycat's death, and that there's a different perpetrator at hand with no supernatural element. I'll explain after this segment as to why the forest is such a focal point to Ivory, but for now:

The forest is an ominous 'character' and looming figure during the whole episode. Multiple shots include Ivory spacing out and simply staring at the woods in some sort of trauma reaction

The forest is ominous, dense and is eerie due to the atmosphere

Forests are easy ground to get lost in and die

Supernatural activity can easily be tied with a supernatural forest

Misty's death is sudden and seems out of nowhere after a bit of a long shot with the woods

From Misty's injuries, it seems like the attack was quite violent, but it's not above that she fell down the stairs after being attacked. The injuries on the back of her head could suggest a blunt force blow, while the rest of her injuries were amassed from her tumbling down the stairs, which would draw someone to check out what happened, and of course, then the freak out

Do I have an idea as to who it could be? No. Fuck no lol, I'm not a psychic, I just don't think it's supernatural for now. There's absolutely zero reason as to why a supernatural entity would be killing the household now and not then

Why is the forest such a big deal, and Ivory's behaviour

Now. Hear me out on this: Ivory is from a cult like environment, where a settlement was in a similar forest, quite like the surrounding area of Whitepine

Her behaviour, past being autistic, is very submissive, with a fear of authority, the fear of disobeying orders to such an extent that she asks a fellow coworker permission to go outside, and a general reclusive behaviour that I associate with a want to conform and not cause issues for the ones in power

Obviously, all of these can be attributed to Ivory's implied autism, but I think it makes more sense with Ivory's behaviour towards the woods and other people

She seems afraid of talking, saying anything outside of what is asked of her, and even then, she struggles greatly and panics about being in trouble to a near panic attack level. Her dissociation with the sight of forests seems trauma related, along with the buzzing noise she gets after people rush to see why someone screamed

She seems afraid but in an abstract sense. She stares for seemingly hours after being dismissed her first day, just staring at the woods that caused her to zone out first thing

It's not normal behaviour. Even from a neurodivergent standpoint in my opinion. Her anxiety seems to come from an outside place, and Minutetech not knowing anything about her, past where he found her and what she did on the train ride gives me the impression she ran away from her cult, and now associates forests with them, causing her to have bad reactions when on edge or stressed

And that was it! Thank you for the read, hope you enjoyed my unhinged thoughts!!

[snakes-and-fluff]

I only saw this illustration now, and the first thing I see people saying is that it looks like a funeral and that the way they hold their flowers might pertain to how they feel about their victim. This makes sense but is also horrifying if we break it down:

Yuno, Mahiru and Shidou are carefully holding it in both hands. Yuno is cradling it like a small child (ouch) while Mahiru and Shidou are holding it close to their chest. Like you would a lover.

Take the above into consideration and the fact that Kazui is not only holding it with one hand, but looks like he's ready to toss it hurt a lot more. Sure, he didn't love Hinako, but I was still under the impression that he cared for her.

Speaking of tossing, Amane's has already dropped and is lying on the floor behind her, implying she has no more respect for her victim. Which makes sense both from the horrible abuser angle and the "went-back-on-your-beliefs" angle.

Haruka also looks ready to drop his, holding it upside-down with some petals already having fallen from it. I've never really thought about how Haruka viewed his victim before and this isn't really giving me a good read on it either, but I do find it immensely interesting.

Kotoko is holding hers the lowest but doesn't seem intent on dropping it. She hates her victim, of course, but doesn't want to let go of that hatred. Of that anger. She'll remember him, even just to remember what "real evil" looks like.

Mikoto is grasping it with both hands in what I can best describe a "normal" way. Like a corporate funeral you have to attend but didn't know the person so you're just trying to be polite. After all, he didn't know who he killed, so how is he supposed to have an opinion on them?

Muu is a strange one. She's holding it behind her back but doesn't seem about to discard it like Amane did. And with her pose it makes her look like a nervous teen about to confess her love. Maybe she did hold some romantic feelings for Rei after all.

Fuuta's is tossed over his shoulder; only holding it with one hand but that hand is holding tight. He's also the only one holding it at face-level. I think he feels a closeness with his victim that the others do not; a similarity in their situation.

Also, sidenote: once again the boys were robbed and just get uniform suits where the girls get to get different outfits (I have the same problem with the birthday arts). Also what is Es wearing? That doesn't look modern to me and looking up "traditional Japanese funeral wear" doesn't get me anything that looks like that. So if somebody knows, please tell me! kani-miso has informed me it is a Buddhist monk outfit; thanks so much!

[moibakadesu]

Okay, here we go, my interpretations and rambles about the 4th anniversary art. I know everybody is doing that right now and a lot of my thoughts might be the same as a lot of other people's, but the brainworms are active.

Let's start that it is brilliant that they went with a funeral theme for the 4th anni and to top it off they released it on the 4th of April. As a lot of you might know, 4 stands for death in Japanese (and various other asian countries), as it is pronounced the same.

My initial prediction for the art was, that it would be the funeral of the prisoners themselves and that we would see them lying on the frame of flowers (chrysanthemum, white lilies and white roses, all traditional funeral flowers). But as it turns out, we have the prisoners attending the funeral of their victims, so to speak.

So of course we have everybody in classic funeral attire, and sadly that doesn’t make for a lot of variety for the guys, sans the shoes, some buttons and different seams and pockets, but they all look splendid in it (and it stops Fuuta from combining it with some ridiculous fashion choices), so I can vibe with it.

For the girls we have of course a bit more to look at in terms of different clothes, the ones who are still visiting school in their respective uniforms, although in dark tones to fit in the whole composition, and Mappi with a simple dress as well as Kotoko with a chic blazer and trousers combo.

The wardens take the role of the priest who would attend a traditional Japanese funeral, how very fitting. Everybody is very pretty. I do still prefer akka’s art, but kee did a very good job capturing everybody as well.

Now the really interesting part is of course how everybody is holding their bouquets. I think the general consensus is that they stands for the victims, or in a wider sense the emotional stance that each prisoner has in regards to their murder. Let’s go in order from left to right.

Mikoto: Very prim and proper. I am in the camp that thinks that Mikoto committed the murder, not John, but also that he genuinely doesn’t remember anymore (due to stress-induced amnesia etc.). So it makes a lot of sense that he holds it in the most neutral and normal way possible. He doesn’t know the victim, he doesn’t have any particular feelings regarding it that he can remember.

Kazui: Holding it very lightly, but not as careless as if you would have to fear it falling to the ground. Maybe symbolic for the lack of emotional commitment in his marriage, due to being homosexual? Somewhat fitting to the lyrics of Cat, “let’s keep it simple”, keep it casual, these feelings are not real and very fleeting.

Shidou: Oh, he is interesting. He is holding the flowers exactly like you would a young baby, proper head and body support with both his hands and arm, while being very gentle with it. Further evidence that his murder ended up being one of his sons. As I assume ending up braindead after an accident and Shidou having to give the okay to use him as an organ donor.

Fuuta: My angry little ginger. And his anger shines through, what are you gripping your flowers so tightly for, little man? He is holding it almost like a weapon, very much the hero of justice with his sword ready to strike. I find it interesting that he is the only prisoner not smiling. I thought maybe because he is the one who is the most terrified about what his actions have led to? He was deeply riddled by remorse from the beginning after all, as much as he didn't want to admit that.

Haruka: Oh Haruka, what are you doing? His is … interesting. My theory is still that the murder he is actually is in Milgram for is a suicide, and the way he is holding the flowers does a good job in supporting that thought. He is holding the bouquet upside down, with not much apparent care for its state, some petals falling on the floor, and more importantly, on himself. I think this might represent how he has little to none self-worth and care for himself. Another thing I did see a japanese fan on Twt talk about was the meaning of an upside down bouquet. Apparently there is a superstition about holding flowers upside down, so that they … absorb water faster. This is both a good way to show Haruka’s innocence about the world as he would possibly believe such a thing as well as … very grim, as I think he drowned himself.

Yuno: Similar to Shidou she is holding her flowers a lot like you would an infant, and … well, that speaks for itself I would say. There is no ill feeling or disrespect towards the unborn life, is what just not meant to be with her.

Muu: Holding her bouquet behind her back, just like she does not want the fact that it might in fact have been her fault behind her victim act. Could also go very well with how she most likely did hide the box cutter out of sight until she struck.

Mahiru: She is holding her flowers very gently, delicately, with a lot of love, of course, it’s Mappi after all. Maybe almost a bit too close to her, if she is not careful she could crush or squish them easily. As it is in line with how destructive her relationship ended up being.

Amane: Oh Amane, the disrespect, haha. Carelessly discarded behind her. Sinners are worthless and need to be punished, right? Nothing wrong with quite literally stepping over dead bodies. The little girl is quite savage, I have to give her that much.

Kotoko: She is a bit hard for me to read. Her grip on the bouquet is concealed, does she maybe not want to admit how tightly she is holding on to it as a parallel how she does not want to admit to her sadistic tendencies, because it is after all always for justice, nothing else. Hmmm.

[adipostsstuff]

We need to talk about the prisoners' memories

We know that none of the prisoners remember being taken to Milgram, so they must have had some memories removed, and it seems it wasn't limited to the kidnapping since Mu in her first voice drama claims that the last thing she remembers is committing her murder. I suspect their memories cut off at the moment they realised they committed murder based on the last scenes in their music videos. This would mean that:

Haruka, Yuno, Mu, Amane and Kotoko would have their memories cut off immediately after their murders since it would be pretty difficult not realise you committed a murder after literally beating someone to death.

For Mahiru and Kazui it would be once they realsie their partners committed suicide and related it back to their own actions.

For Futa it would be when he starts getting posts directed to him how his victim's death and was blamed for it. (Side note: imagine being Futa, getting called out on social media and not knowing when, realising you caused the death of a human being, and then waking up in a prison and being called a murderer with no time to process any of that. No wonder he's so jumpy.)

For Shidou it would be when he gets told his family was diagnosed with brain death and asked to offer up their organs for transplants, realised how hurtful it must have been for others to hear the words said from him, and retroactively consider all of his previous transplants to be murders. (I know this isn't confirmed to be his murder but its the only theory that fits this one and based on other stuff seems the most likely to me.)

This leaves Mikoto, who seems to be the odd one out as unlike the others he had time to clear up his crime scene. It seems like a contradiction to be able to do that without realising he committed a murder. I have a couple of possible explanations for this (but I have to speculate about his crime to do that. ugh).

The first, and what I believe to be most likely, is that he killed someone and immediately started to dissociate. Remember what I said earlier about it being difficult to not realise you committed a murder if you did it directly? There is actually an exception to that rule: if you happen to have a dissociative disorder, which just so happens to be the case with Mikoto. This could be when John was "born" (which checks out with his statements in Neoplasm) and was left with the task of clearing up the scene while Mikoto was unconscious (don't know the proper system terminology for that). If this is the case, then it's unlikely there were more than one victims or at least incidents since it seems a little pedantic for this to happen every time (unless John did kill someone after the first event; have to keep an open mind, especially since I'm not going to bother looking into it much further than this myself).

The other possibility is that it was an alter committing all the murders without Mikoto's knowledge, but since Double I've been less convinced. John is clearly not giving us all the information he knows.

Either way the end is the same. Some time later, Mikoto starts to remember what he did before getting knocked out kinda by John and forgetting again. This realization is what enables him to be sent to Milgram. In fact, if you look at the final scene in MeMe

Yep, that’s the last shot either of them have. Their last memory before entering here. As an aside it's interesting (and also kind of annoying) that the memory wipe is applied to both alters despite only Mikoto being considered the prisoner. They might have just tried to remove all memories after this point regardless of who was fronting. The one time it would have been useful for John to not be considered a prisoner, he is treated as one.

This is entirely conjecture but considering everyone else it would be weird for him to be the only one who doesn't fit. This does give some kind of idea as to how Milgram selects people to be part of the experiment and what memories are wiped, and I don't have a better idea than this one right now so if anything gets contradicted then I'm screwed. I'm fairly confident in this though. Going to make a follow up post to prove more stuff happened between what they last remember and when they were taken here, but I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts on this.

[junegirl06]

Milgram 3rd trial predictions! Now that the 2nd trial is officially over, and we have to wait until like September for the next trial to begin, I thought I could do some theorizing!

Haruka: Looking at the timeline, oh he's definitely planning... something, alone. He said he'd kill himself If Muu was voted guilty, and we all know she was. If he is planning to kill himself, then I don't think it's going to work, as he was voted guilty and thus will be restrained. However... as childish as he may be, I don't think he's entirely dumb. Perhaps he's looking for ways to work around the restrictions placed on him, or he's planning something else entirely. I just really hope he doesn't hurt any of the other prisoners, but that does seem pretty likely, actually. He definitely will not take the guilty vote well, and he's probably going to be pretty hostile to Es later on... Just based on these predictions, I'm not sure if I can vote him innocent in the 3rd trial. He's so obviously unstable, and maybe if he was treated better as a child he could have learned to function properly with whatever disorder he has, but the fact is he wasn't. If being voted innocent overall means being let out of the prison, then I... I'm not sure if that's an entirely good idea.

Yuno: Her reaction to her vote all depends on whether or not she takes it as people actually agreeing with her reasoning (or lack of) for abortion and her compensated dating. I'm not sure about the Japanese side of things, but at least here, a lot of people do support her even with all that. However... there are still a fair bit of people still like 'Yuno is a girl boss!' (or something along those lines) I have a feeling she'll still see it as people not seeing her for who she actually is. She's cold and rational, and so obviously fallen to the pit of nihilism. I'm not sure if there is a reason for that, but maybe that's the point of her character? Does she need a reason? Life is good for her, but that gets so boring and just... mundane. If everything will be fine, what's the point in doing anything bothersome? She'll probably fall back even further into her cold demeanor. Or in a darker theory, maybe she'll try something drastic to get us to vote her guilty for the last trial? Like attacking someone or maybe something even worse- I mean, if she does recognize the community understands her situation and her reasoning, then maybe she'll become slightly more bubbly and stuff like her 1st trial. Probably open up a bit more. Me, personally, I still support her, and will probably vote her innocent in the 3rd trial, but again, I don't want her to think we're doing it out of our preconceived notions about her.

Fuuta: ... Just taking a look at his recent birthday messages in the timeline- he's so obviously started to listen to Amane and her cultish stuff. I literally can't imagine what a brainwashed Fuuta will look like, but I don't think it'd be pretty. He was suffering so much during the 2nd trial, and he probably did start listening to Amane's spiel because he needed something to ground him. I'm sure the innocent vote this time around did make him feel better though. He's fully aware that what he did to that girl online was bad, and I really don't think he'd be the type of person to think he's fully forgiven just because of this one vote. Though he'd definitely want Es to vote him innocent again in the 3rd trial. And if he's acting generally normal and it's clear he does understand exactly why we voted him guilty and innocent, then...I think I would vote him innocent. Unless he does something horrible because of the whole- potentially might be brainwashed into Amane's cult thing.

Muu: She will not take the guilty vote well, I can feel it. Maybe she stopped hanging out with Haruka as well. I can see that affecting Haruka pretty badly too. I can imagine her getting extremely angry as Es. Or maybe trying to go back to her "boo-hoo look at me who got bullied really badly" thing, to try to guilt trip Es into voting her innocent again. Obviously, that won't work though, resulting in Muu getting really angry/lashing out at him in the voice drama. I think she has a pretty white-and-black view of what's "right" and "wrong." She was probably struggling with herself in the 1st trial, dealing with the shock and guilt over having murdered somebody, but still desperately trying to tell herself she was in the right. Since we voted her innocent then, she was able to fully convince herself she was right, and that's why people voted her guilty then. She needs to see she is in the wrong, while also having a very reasonable motive. That wouldn't end up working though. Because these votes aren't a means to communicate with the prisoners, it's just a verdict. I'm honestly not sure if I want Muu to be voted innocent, or guilty overall. But if being voted guilty overall means the death penalty or something, I don't think Muu deserves that.

Shidou: He knows exactly why we voted him innocent 2 times in a row. I'm sure he does understand his motive can be seen as sympathetic, and he is a doctor. He can patch anybody up if the prisoners get into a skirmish again. He was confused with himself in the second trial, desperately wanting to be given retribution, yet now feeling a desire to live. Being voted innocent twice, and now firmly guaranteed he will be voted innocent overall, he'll either fully accept living again, taking back his skill as a doctor with a sense of pride, or... perhaps fall back into his old thinking patterns. I mean, that's honestly just a thought, but the distorted voice line in the 2nd trial character voice trailer really got me thinking. "You're in my way...hurry up and die." He really had a tunnel vision for saving his wife. (or kids, I'm not entirely sure) His profession as a doctor, specifically one in charge of organ transplants, perhaps did give him a vague sense of superiority. I'm not sure where, but somebody in a comment or something mentioned he may have had a God complex? I'm horrible at explaining this- but it honestly makes some sense to me that he may have had that sort of line of thinking as a doctor. His grief and guilt over the fact he couldn't save his family and the knowledge he was bringing that same pain to so many other families knocked him down a peg. However... maybe the innocent votes we gave him did bring him up again, and he goes back to that sort of mentality.

Mahiru: I sincerely hope she's feeling better after we gave her the innocent vote. Maybe she's started to recover nicely as well! I mean, it's just hopeful thinking, but it'd be nice if she's able to walk again. I do think she'll at least sort of go back to her bubbly personality. Maybe she'll make friends with Amane! Amane did mention Mahiru was nice to be around. Her view on love is obviously pretty warped, but I mean, she honestly feels like a nice lady with good intentions deep down. Unless some absolutely new surprising development happens that makes Mahiru out as really bad- I think I'll be voting Mahiru innocent again. I can see her being like, one of the few generally calm ones in whatever chaos happens between the prisoners before the 3rd trial.

Kazui: Now, in his 2nd trial voice drama, he basically begs Es to truly uncover his sin/lies, because he doesn't have the strength to at this point. It wasn't cheating, like we thought in the 1st trial, and now the leading theory is he's gay. I... I'm pretty sure that is correct, based on all the hints we've gotten so far. I think Kazui would open up to Es a bit more if that was the case, maybe even tell him the full story? I think he'd interact more with the prisoners this time around, being there to protect people if anyone tries something funny. Again, I think he'd be one of the few "normal" acting prisoners in the 3rd trial. Unless some crazy development happens, I'm fully willing to vote him innocent 3 times in a row.

Amane: Now... in the 1st trial we voted her guilty because we didn't want her to fall further into the cult's teachings. That obviously didn't work. Now we voted her innocent. The question is, will this cause her to further validate the cult's doctrines, or in some weird way cause her to realize what we've been wanting her to realize from the start: that she fully deserved to get back at her parents and the cult for everything they did to her, but what she did was STILL BAD. The reason she fell back on her faith was because we rejected her views. Because she needed something to ground her, to protect her from the shock and guilt of murder. So perhaps the opposite will cause her to open up a little more - and not double down on her faith like we predicted in the 1st trial. But the fact she somehow managed to indoctrinate/ in the process of indoctrinating Fuuta into her faith does leave me concerned. Since she's not restrained, I can totally see her trying to attack Shidou or something. Or maybe because Shidou was also voted innocent alongside her, so she wouldn't? Like- him using all his medical stuff is forgivable, but Amane's beliefs that medicine is bad are also forgivable kind of thing. I mean, personally, I'm willing to vote her innocent overall. I actually hope so - because the poor girl literally needs therapy instead of whatever Milgram is. Every prisoner needs therapy.

Mikoto: In his voice drama, John mentioned he'd "disappear" if Mikoto was voted innocent. Because the reason John was appearing more frequently was the stress the guilty vote from the 1st trial put on Mikoto, and now the innocent vote will serve to calm him down a bit more. Personally, I don't think John will fully disappear, but I'm sure John will appear a lot less. (Unless something crazy happens like another prisoner attacking Mikoto again) There's still that thought in my head that Mikoto might be lying to some degree- that he did murder somebody as himself, but with the second trial, that idea has become a lot less certain. It might literally just be as simple as - John killed a bunch of people and Mikoto himself doesn't remember any of it and was only labeled as the Milgram prisoner because he is the dominant personality. That innocent vote will definitely calm Mikoto down significantly. Maybe he'll open up a bit as well, and not like, put on that fake smile even when he's super stressed. To be honest - I'm not sure if I want to give Mikoto an innocent vote. I mean If I'm looking purely at Mikoto, then, yeah, sure. But John is still a part of Mikoto, and no matter the reason, John has done some pretty bad stuff.

Kotoko: She won't take the guilty vote well, and It isn't only a matter of her getting pissed off at Es. (which she probably will) Her vigilante shtick is literally Kotoko's life, her purpose to live, and we rejected it. She'll be grappling with herself, actually starting to question everything she's done. It will be a slap in the face for her - a reminder that she is truly a prisoner here, a murderer. I think maybe she will actually start being remorseful? Or maybe she'll just fall further back in her mindset like Amane did in the 2nd trial. I can also see that. I can also totally see somebody like Fuuta trying to get revenge on Kotoko while she's restrained. That'd take a lot of sympathy away from Fuuta, (at least for me) and will definitely lead to some drama, so that is a very real possibility. I can also see Shidou hurting Kotoko as well, actually. Though that possibility is a lot less, he did talk about "extracting the fang" in Triage. I don't know if I should vote her innocent or not if that's the case. I suppose it's like a "wait and see" kind of thing.

[cycle-hit]

i absolutely agree with the idea that muu’s status from queen bee in school to bullying victim was because of her being gay. ive seen alot of people talk about how muu went from rich popular girl to the target of harassment but nobodys given like an actual reason why they thinks such an extreme shift happened? high schoolers can backstab their friends and whatnot but usually theres not such an extreme 180 shift from ‘most popular girl’ to target of bullying and harassment without SOME kind of explanation, and ive not seen any explanations of theories for how rei wouldve been able to convince muu’s friends to turn on her when rei clearly wasnt someone they cared for the opinion of. i really cant look at that shift unless it was some kind of extreme thing such as muu being outed as a lesbian to her school, and her friends turning on her out of homophobic disgust which would in their mind justify the absolute shift in their behavior to her. its maybe a stretch since its not really hinted at in the MVs or voice dramas but the idea of muu’s crush on rei being outed and serving as the primary event that shifted muu’s social status is, to me, the most logical and explanation thematically relevant conclusion

i dont think muu being gay was the "main" cause of muu being bullied- theres a lot of stuff that implies that rei flipped the hourglass on her because she got tired of muu's "queen game".

the "bees" here are feeding muu larvae- assumably the same type of bug that muu is, due to the green "honey" that spills out of her chrysalis when she hatches. shes eating her young! insects resort to "filial cannibalism" like this when theres a shortage of food, bees specifically do it when theres not enough food to feed the young either- so they just end up selecting an "older" brood to survive and use the younger ones as a food source in order for more bees to survive. the best idea i can absorb from this is that muu's "bees" feed her "larvae" (underclassmen? people to bully in general?) so she can "survive"- aka inflict hurt onto others so she doesnt have to deal with her own hurt. hurt people hurt people or whatever.

this girl gets shattered for failing to feed muu "larvae"- the lyrics here are "if you want to betray from jealousy, you know whats going to happen ON YOU". keep that in mind. anyways. we know that muu views relationships as entirely transactional, once someone stops "benefiting" her she stops caring (see her timeline interactions with the other prisoners). once someone stops feeding her "larvae", they no longer have a use to her.

whats interesting about that "shattering" though- is that this means the bees are fake. they arent really her friends. rather this means she didnt view them as "friends" or THEY didnt view HER as a friend. could be either. both even. "fake friends". i feel she definitely THOUGHT they were "friends" though, from this photo in after pain.

she dances on the shattered pieces of her "friends", and her other "friends" join her as well.

there was one friend she couldnt "shatter", though. that's rei.

when rei walks in on her dancing, the lyrics from earlier when she shattered the other girl repeats- "if you want to betray from jealousy, you know whats going to happen ON YOU", and both her gaze and her friends gazes turn onto rei. rei became a victim of muu's bullying.

this is rei's chalkboard! this is rei getting bullied. we can tell because its likely rei's desk that has the flowers on them- muu's desk is beside the one with the flowers on it (based on the angle of the sunlight at least), so this isn't muu's chalkboard.

this is when rei "flips the hourglass". she gets tired of muu's bullying, of her "queen game", and exposes muu for her cycle- eating the "young" and "shattering" anyone who cant "feed" her, what she walked in on. theres a message on rei's chalkboard here that might corroborate to that, fuuta kajiyama style.

she brought muu's "queen game" to light, and muu's "friends" turned on her for that, likely because they thought muu would just "shatter" them as well.

(translations provided here)

muu begins to drown in the same "honey" of the "larvae" that she was fed and metamorphosed from- she's now experiencing the same pain that she kept inflicting onto others.

so i really dont think that muu being gay was what rei flipped the hourglass on her for- atleast not as a sole thing. nor was it the "main" cause of muu's bullying. i think it just happened to be something that came to light as well and then WORSENED the bullying towards muu. as a little treat though i like to imagine the scene of muu hitting/pouring water over rei's head happened because rei rejected her confession of feelings. that headcanon does rly get obliterated by this interrogation question though. unfortunately.

also as a disclaimer i want to put proof that muu does very much regret/feel bad for what she's done- despite her "I Dont Care Im Queen Bee" attitude

she KNOWS shes done something bad.

she knows it was wrong. we just kind of. messed that up. by giving her an innocent verdict. plus muu's like. a 16 year old girl man. this is just sort of what happens in high school to a lot of people. besides the um. murder.

anyways. hope that helps give you more theories for what happened to muu, anon! but thats all just a theory. A GAME THEO-[GUNSHOT]

[blueepink07]

Since Amane has been voted innocent and considering Mikoto's high inno percentage, that means that all guilty prisoners during the first trial have been voted inno. So it had arised a question in my mind about the physical restraints.

Currently, Haruka and Muu are the only ones voted guilty, for Kotoko is a high chance to be voted guilty too. However, they all share the same inno vote from trial 1. Jackalope informs us in this video, before the start of trial 2, that the guilty prisoners are restricted by the first phase of physical constraints.

I had initially thought that the phases are corresponding to the number of guilty votes during the trials. However, considering that we don't have any prisoner voted guilty twice... Will Haruka and Muu (possible Kotoko) have the second phase of restraints and skip the first phase? I feel like if they don't do that we will never see how it would be the second phase of restraints (unless they plan something at the end of the third trial).

If the restraints are already restricting a lot of movement (I made a theory a while ago where I talked about how much incovience they cause to the guilty prisoners, so I will put the photos here, again)

I'm really curious of how they will handle the second phase of restraints... Would it look similar with those from Undecover, having their arms fully restrained...?

[speremint]

V appreciative of BnR readers today because while everyone's been leaving consistently great comments since S3 started with theories and noticing my little details, this one commenter just?? Holy shit, amazing theory, so big brain, I'm so pleased!!

[mitsubinyuri]

MILGRAM Guilty/Innocent verdicts, according to my father

MILGRAM, but instead of forming my own opinions I scroll randomly through the YouTube comments of each video, take the first theory I see, explain it poorly to my father and have HIM judge them guilty/innocent based off of that.

aka.

A 50 year old Taiwanese man’s opinions on MILGRAM characters. (He, as a doctor, had a LOT to say about Shidou)

[note that this was posted between It’s Not My Fault and Triage.]

vvvv

ME: State your name and occupation, please.

DAD: Dad, Physician.

----

Haruka (no. 01) (no idea how to sum up the common consensus on him, but yknow what I’m thinking of) - INNOCENT

“I dunno... I think this guy needs treatment. I don’t know, there’s actually no causal link between having a learning disability, being neglected, and like, killing small creatures.” 

“They say killing animals in your youth is a risk factor for predicting if someone’s gonna grow up to be, an actual, y’know.” 

“I mean, so, forgivable? I mean, only in the sense that y’know, this may be part of him that’s sort of intrinsically broken and he really just needs treatment.”

----

Yuno (no. 02) (abortion “theory”) - INNOCENT

“Well, I mean, I don’t really have any- to me this is not an issue... I don’t think there’s any particular moral wrong here, I mean y’know, she does what she does, she was in a position that she found herself pregnant and she didn’t want to be pregnant so she had a perfectly legal and safe medical procedure to take care of it.”

I brought up the fact it might not have been legal.

“Well, I mean, either way, I don’t see that it’s an issue. I don’t have any issue with it.”

----

Fuuta (no. 03) (doxxing/cyberbullying theory) - GUILTY

“Yeah, well, I don’t really think there’s anything particularly excusable about this one.”

----

Muu (no. 04) (bully -> bullied “theory”, I brought up the lesbian theory to him and presented it as an additional option as well) - GUILTY

“I dunno. I mean, honestly, I don’t really have much sympathy in this case. If you’re gonna dish it out you better be ready to take it.”

“Look, if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, alright?! Y’know, I mean, seriously!”

“This is like, at best it’s just pure hypocrisy, okay, well turnabout. You didn’t think about it until you were the object.”

My sister makes an Ace Attorney reference referring to the word ‘turnabout’. He texts her an Ace Attorney meme. 

----

Shidou (no. 05) (organ harvester theory) - GUILTY

laughing

“This is not how any of this works, okay? You cannot just whip organs out of one person and bung (?) ‘em into someone else and it’s gonna be like ‘Wow, that’s awesome’!”

“Yeah, see, that to me is too far out there. I can’t even say because that’s now how it functions.”

I ask him if hypothetically you could, what the verdict would be.

“Even if you had a whole... You could some how make it work... it’s still not- no.”

“Besides, you can’t even perform surgeries at 29 unless you went through med school very quickly.”

----

Mahiru (no. 06) (toxic relationship + suicide theory) - GUILTY

“She sounds... extremely emotionally immature. I don’t think she was ready for a relationship.”

“Now, why didn’t the guy just dump her and walk away?”

I explain the ‘breakup ritual’ line, and bring up the ‘both sides toxic’ theory.

“Well, I mean, is there any evidence at all to support that sort of thing?”

I explain the vagueness of the video.

“Yeah, I dunno, I mean absent to any further data I’m not inclined to be merciful here.”

----

Kazui (no. 07) (cheating + suicide theory) - INNOCENT

“I mean, sad to say, it’s not an uncommon phenomenon. It’s a thing that happens, y’know,”

sigh

“So I don’t really, I mean, depending on how he broke it to her, I suppose, and if he actually DID have an affair or had just contemplated one.”

“Or even then, I sort of feel like jumping off a balcony over it is a little bit of an overreaction.”

“A lot depends on the specific details about how this came out, assuming that’s the correct story. I mean, the situation is sad, but at least the way it’s presented I don’t feel like I can hold him at fault for her deciding to throw herself to her death.”

“Well, I mean, and I think legally you couldn’t really say anything about it. I mean, he’s responsible in part but it’s not like he pushed her or anything like that.”

----

Amane (no. 08) (cult theory) - INNOCENT

“I mean, the thing is. This is one of those classic cases- assuming she’s been completely brainwashed by this cult, that’s one of those cases where deprogramming has to be the first step.”

“It’s related to not guilty by reason of insanity, this is someone who’s worldview has been warped to the extent that they’ve presumably sworn their unthinking allegiance to whoever their leader is.”

“Obviously she’s directly responsible, though I don’t know how a twelve year old can beat someone to death.”

“You would need therapy and deprogramming, before you try to bring it to trial.”

“It also depends on if the therapy turns out successful or not.”

I mention she’s twelve.

laughing.

“Alright, so like, automatically guilty then.”

----

Mikoto (no. 09) (DID “theory”) - INNOCENT

“I mean... really? Does this alter even have a name?”

“I mean, legally you can’t render judgement here.” 

“I mean, assuming the alter was the one murdering people?”

“Yeah, I mean, I dunno, if he truly is suffering from this disorder, it’s like the other ones, we can’t hold him responsible.”

----

Kotoko (no. 10) (vigilante “theory”) - GUILTY

“So, basically... did she intend to kill him? Or did she try to beat him up and get carried away?”

I explain that she did intend to kill.

“Y’know, the fact of the matter is, as great as it sounds, I don’t really condone vigilantism. She knows exactly what she’s doing, right?”

I say yes.

“Okay, well, in that case, then I would think that she should be prepared to face the consequences.”

“Yeah, so this also sounds like someone who feels that they are above society’s rules. Not something I feel completely comfortable with, even if now they appear to be doing things on the right side.”

----

notes: 

also said, at the end: “Just because someone cannot be held morally responsible for their actions also does not mean we should have them out roaming the streets.”

bold (no italics) is things that I said. Italics is things he did.