#my Jiang Cheng my Jiang Cheng they just dont understand you like I do

[kahluah]

*puts hand up* sorry I’m very new here what’s the context with what’s happening with the tag war??

Alright, I will give my run down, but I will not be naming any blog names on either side even if I have the info and the action was net positive. I just like to use my blog to scroll and reblog for the most part and refuse to embroil myself in the drama more than just giving my view on it as a bystander. One that definitely has an opinion on the events, but also as someone who would rather curate my own experience than fight.

So all this fighting that is going on, it used to just happen in the normal "Jiang Cheng" tag because back then there was no "canon Jiang Cheng" tag; it had not been created yet. (By that I mean it was not a tag used as a tag, Tumblr's shitty search algorithm might still show posts if one typed it in to the search bar because those posts had the words 'canon', 'Jiang', and 'Cheng' in the tags separately, but there would not be posts with "#canon Jiang Cheng" because nobody normally creates a post with a tag like that when "#Jiang Cheng" was suffice. Sometimes I see irrelevant posts in the canon Jiang Cheng tag, but the actual tag isn't on the post, the tags just happen to have all three words in them. Those I ignore because that is Tumblr's fault, not the poster.)

The fighting was between people that like the character and prefer to see the good in him and the interpretation of his character, and those that may or may not like the character (just because you like a character does not mean you need to defend their every action after all) but do not share that opinion of his character and have a more neutral or negative portrayal by contrast. The former also tended to favor or have only read the novel as it is the source material for all other adaptations.

Now things really came to a head when hate and threats were being thrown about on posts that were just quotes from the book showing the negative actions of Jiang Cheng. The people posting the quotes were basically told "if you hate the character why don't you just tag the post as anti-JC?!" but is it really right to call those anti posts when they were posting how the character acts in the source material? That is the character. That is how he acted. Look it is in the book! The character really did that! It is not somebody's negative headcanon that the character may act like that, it is something the character actually did. Personally I can not consider that as an anti character post, and neither did the people who made posts like that.

But things did get heated enough that some people finally took a step back and said "Fine. You want us to make our own space to make these posts so that you do not have to see us talk about JC this way? We will. It will be #canon Jiang Cheng and you can block it if you don't want to see the posts." Was the name picked in the spirit of schadenfreude? Very probable, but it is also not an incorrect name as the people who wanted to use it base their opinion on the novel. But the point was that the tag was created so that people now had their own space to make the posts they wanted and those that did not want to see it could block the tag. Curate your own experience; we can block tags on this site for a reason and advertising tags to block is a courtesy. (Because as said previously, the search here sucks, because the posts contain the character's name they are still likely to show up in the main tag, but block the newly created tag and you will not see those posts either way). Could the other people come into the tag in good faith and make arguments with textual support? Yeah, that was welcomed, but in the spirit of debate they should expect rebuttal. Was that what happened? No.

No instead what happened was basically this meme

They did not like the name chosen for the tag. They read the novel too and still believe that JC is good, so they should be able to use the tag too! Never mind the fact that the tag was made so they could block the posts they didn't want to see. So that they can go on with their days no longer having to deal with the people they constantly fought with. No. Instead of curating the experience of this website, they would get so hung up on the fact that there was now a tag called #canon Jiang Cheng in use that they had to use it too to defend JC from the people that post 'negative' things about him; even if it is novel text!

So while the fighting didn't stop, it did get slightly better because not everyone felt the need to jump into the new tag to defend their fave. Some people actually did curate their experience. Plus there is a block button and people do use it, so things got to a point where I would say it was relatively stable even if there was still fights here and there. (But once again I lurk, I do not participate. Things may not have been the same for more outspoken people).

But then a certain muskrat bought Twitter and a chunk of the fandom there fled here. That's when the main push to "reclaim the tag" and the new influx of people hopping into the tag to argue and defend their fave appeared. These people did not know why the tag was made, they just saw blogs that they liked telling people about the "JC-antis" that made it and how with the new people pouring into the Tumblr fandom from twitter, they had a chance to flood it and reclaim it. And since then the fighting has not really stopped.

As for what has happened in the past few days, you have JC defenders flooding the tag with fan art (not canon), screen caps from CLQ (not canon), and screenshots of a sentence or two from the novel (canon, but usually out of context or lacking additional lines that go on to rebut what was previously said) in the tag and the people who made the tag for a specific purpose getting mad about the spam. (I block so I have no clue how big the influx was or whatever but there was definitely like at least 3 new people I had to block). So when they made posts venting the anger, you got JC defenders coming back to them and going "But I never sent any hate or harassment! I just used the tag to talk about the canon character!" And perhaps they didn't, but these people in their defense always ignore and never respond to the question of why they are in the tag instead of blocking it because that is what the tag was made for. Instead they come back with "Well if you want to talk about JC that way, why don't you post in the anti tag or make your own tag!"... Remember that meme picture I used above. Yup.

The tag war began because people did not like negative posts about JC in the main character tag for JC. When told to use the anti tag or make a new tag, a new tag was made, but instead of curating the experience the stans of JC got so tilted at the name of the tag that they decided that they would come into the tag and continue the fight instead of just blocking it. Twitter fallout made the fighting worse. And now we have come full circle to the JC stans once again telling people to just use the anti tag or make their own tag.

[margle]

all of my favourite characters in the untamed have died.

[sonik-kun]

I feel a level of accountability needs to be had amongst certain wangxian stans, particularly in regards to how some of them make us JC fans feel and have us reluctant to engage with the mainstream part of the fandom due endless hounding and bullying..

Yes, for Twitter users, this is about that one poll that is going around and the conversations I've seen amongst moots about the poll..

After reading what I've read this week.. I just need to get something off my chest about how icky this fandom is sometimes and how it has us JC fans feeling all the time. So bear with me whilst I rant. It's a lot to unpack, but it has to be said.. So here I go..

So for those who dont know, there's this poll going around on twitter for best DILF/MILF.. Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji both happen to be in that poll.

To both the surprise and excitement of us JC fans, JC is doing well.. However.. So is LWJ.. and so, of course, the possibility of them two coming head to head hangs over us..

And now, in the semi-finals, JC is up against Toji from JJK, LWJ is up against Loid from Spy x Family. It seems LWJ is going to win his.. and JC fans, as a result.. Have felt the need to step away and let Toji take the win.. In fear of backlash and what's to come for our fanbase, if LWJ and JC were to face each other in the finals..

Throughout the entire tournament, we already saw a few nasty remarks from these antis, rearing their ugly heads. So we could only imagine what it would be like should the two be put up against each other.

The fact that we as a fanbase feel the need to let another character win so our favourite doesn't recieve any backlash is both upsetting and really telling of what this fandom has been reduced to.

The fact of the matter is, it shouldn't have to be this way. Us JC fans shouldn't have to be afraid to vote for our favourite character, to see him do well and win and to enter his name or his ships into other tournaments. We should be able to enjoy ourselves and have fun, free of any fandom drama and bullying. The same freedom wangxian fans get to enjoy.

I know it's just a twitter poll, and it doesn't really mean anything, but.. It's just so disheartening seeing your moots feel that way about a character they should be allowed to enjoy.. Honestly, the whole thing has just left a bad taste in my mouth.. I wasn't really a fan of LWJ due to some of his fanbase.. But the nasty attitudes I've seen in this poll, amongst many, have only further solidified that stance..

To the kind and normal wangxian fans out there, I am sorry if you are reading this. I'm not tarring you with this lot. But I hope you all understand that this is the position of most JC fans rn. We do not trust most of you because, unfortunately, the toxic but very vocal minority speaks the loudest.

It really is ruining the whole fandom experience and making MDZS look like a joke and I think that is a conversation that needs to be had.

JC fans aren't the only ones who feel this way. Anyone outside of Wangxian feels very alienated by some of the fans of the main ship.

As a result, a lot of us are afraid to enjoy our characters the same way wangxian fans do.

No Wangxian fan would ever feel afraid to enter their fave into a mainstream poll, and rightfully so. So why should we feel afraid? Why can't we enjoy our characters the same way?

Sorry, this is all mostly me rambling, but.. I just couldn't sit there and not address all the ick.. Especially whilst I was having so much fun, seeing JC doing so well and my moots being so happy as a result..

Note: Just to make it clear, in case I haven't already, I'm not upset with the JC fans who chose to no longer vote for JC towards the end of the tournament. Giving all the bullying and backlash we receive, I can see why you wouldn't want him to win for that reason. A part of me felt the same way, too. I just wish it didn't have to be that way.. It just sucks to see that some people can't behave and let others have their fun :(

[minsarasarahair]

I'm actually surprised there are people who believe Wei Wuxian don't love Jiang Cheng and his action of saving him is just out of debt. First of all, its a "Duty vs What They Actually Felt" conflict. My favorite type of story conflict trope btw. Just because they care about their duty didn't mean they never cared for each other.

Yunmeng shuangjie have genuine friendship during childhood. Its just their relationship became more complex as they became older because Jiang Cheng will become the sect leader and Wei Wuxian as shixiong is expected to support his shidi. That's their obligation or responsibility as part of Yunmeng Jiang sect. When Jiang Cheng became the sect leader, it become hard for him to continue supporting Wei Wuxian's hero journey (yeah, he used to support Wei Wuxian in a way he used to clear up the other's mess while complaining according to Wei Wuxian himself) because he has people on his back now (Also, his wound still raw and has strong hatred too toward the Wens as a whole/he also dont know what the Wen Siblings did to help them because its a secret) while Wei Wuxian is thinking about the debt toward Yunmeng Jiang sect and Wen Siblings. Their duty became too much to them so their true feelings are overshadowed by it but they still care about each other. Wei Wuxian defect from Yunmeng Jiang to protect them while helping the Wen Remnants and Jiang Cheng tried to persuade Wei Wuxian to return to Yunmeng Jiang once he's done helping the Wens so he can be safe.

If I think about it. Xianle trio of TGCF has similar conflict, teenager Xie Lian treat FengQing like close friends despite how FengQing continue to do their servant/guard tasks for him so it make sense why from Xie Lian's perspective, he don't understand why his friends will leave him even if he treat them kindly because he has this ideal frienship image in his mind. But from FengQing's perspective, they are still not equals so they think their current relationship will not work out because they are below Xie Lian similar how Wei Wuxian start to view his relationship to Jiang Cheng as he became older. He start to think about his debt to Yunmeng Jiang sect even if he still care about Jiang Cheng like a brother. Jiang Cheng and Xie Lian are both similar in a way they are the one who's above the hierarchy and don't understand why the other will leave them.

The two just have different development. Yunmeng Shuangjie's ending is a closure to partways. Jiang Cheng still care about Wei Wuxian so he let him go and be free from debts. Wei Wuxian still care about Jiang Cheng so he gave his own golden core as part of debt and get updates from Jin Ling about Jiang Cheng sometimes. On the other hand, Xianle trio's separation is a beginning of friendship because they are finally equals. All of them are gods now.

I guess what I love about Yunmeng Shuangjie and Xianle Trio story is it tells us friends come and go. Their life don't revolve around you forever unlike lifetime romantic partner and that's okay if they leave or stay. What matters is we treasured those memories together and what we learned from them. I just hate how loving platonic relationships in this story and loving the romance of main couple divided the fandom. Its annoying that Jiang Cheng and FengQing are villainized. But well, I did listened to SOARA's songs where they usually reminscing how friends partways after graduation and because of the different paths they take in life so that's probably why I have a different take. One of my bestfriend also tell me how its hard to make new friends in workplace because of the hierarchy and competition whatnot so its probably similar to that.

[danmei-confessions]

throwing myself into the snake pits with this but.... mxtx is not the greatest writer to ever write. her stories can be very flat, and she struggles with any character who isnt the main couple.

ive never been able to finish any of priests works, but from what ive read of similar works by meatbun and tjq both have a more nuanced take on world building and meatbun is just a straight up better writer. i think that the fandoms (mdzs tgcf AND svsss to some extent) tend to put her on a pedestal thats (imo) slightly undeserved. Her plots arent that complex and her villains are, while with understandable motives, generally undeveloped, and their popularity and depth seems majorly subsidized by fandom.

same goes with the themes of her work, where they're either forced upon you or else subtle enough to need an essay of reasoning. not to mention her characters struggles can sometimes be a tad... alienating? i cant think of the exact word, but the mc's tend to be very wrapped up in their own problems (which is fine!) but its sometimes at the cost of seeing how theyre affecting the world around them. with wangxian and hualian especially (though my boy binghe does in svsss too, just in a more unhinged way), the ml's don't really challenge our mcs. even if they know what their partner's doing wrong, they p much unconditionally support them or at least dont pressure them into challenging their ideas. the ml's growth, if there is any, is done off screen, and any changing isn't by the protag but by outside efforts. like, wwx doesnt really change? like hes not really learning anything he didnt already know (demonic cultivation = not good) and besides jin ling he doesn't really face any personal consequences (as in, the opposition is always either a group, faceless background characters, or characters who didn't have that much of a personal connection to him pre-death)(jiang cheng doesnt count for much bc wwx avoids him like the plague, jc would rather die than talk emotions with his brother, and both of them misunderstand why the other is Like That post return)

ahhh anyway i hope this made sense! i still love these characters, but i do think ive matured enough as a person and a especially as a writer to be a little more critical of them!

(/ω＼)

.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

I assume what's keeping the chengxian numbers down is the wangxian of it all, with a dash of insistence from the western fandom that its incestuous. The chengqing numbers are being kept down by the annoying "haha look at jc being pushy with a lesbian who hates men". I have no explanation for the ships that DID spring up, but ig if you want to write a JC romance but dont care for the above you have to get a little more creative. Could have spread it out more tho. jc/jgy, jc/lwj, jc/wn, jc/jzx etc

ahhhh, “mean lesbian Wen Qing,” my beloathed. sure would be nice to see femslash with her given this prominent headcanon!! sure would be great!!!!

(Fun fact! If you filter the page for The Untamed on AO3 for Wen Qing’s name, the top relationship in the 5,822 results is, in fact, Wangxian, with 4,157 fics. 🙃 274 people who are doing the Lord’s work have written femslash with her and Yanli.)

Xicheng is just. So basic. I’m sure it can be done but I don’t?? Understand it??* He is one of the few people with whom Jiang Cheng doesn’t have meaningful entanglement. He and JGY raise a kid together! He and LWJ are united in their search for WWX and then have 13-16 years of unprocessed grief that manifests as animosity! JZX is barely even a character, but he and JC go on that cross-country road trip together to rescue Wangxian from the cave, and JC sure seems to miss JZX for his own sake when he talks about his death later! He and WN are both WWX’s third wheels who save each other’s lives but also lowkey blame each other for WWX’s suffering!

Sangcheng can stay tho. I’m not here for the characterization of NHS that takes his headshaker persona at face value, but any dynamic with his actual self ranges from 👀 to extremely funny.

* Okay. You could have Xicheng helping each other process their respective griefs, because Jiang Cheng does have experience with mourning a loved one reviled by society for atrocities, some of which killed other loved ones. He also has experience with his brother quite literally fucking off with his boyfriend instead of offering any sort of support lol. So I could like it if done thoughtfully! But I doubt very much that that’s what’s going on most of the time.

[petrichoraline]

hii petri! for ship bingo, your favorite ship from kinnporsche and/or your favorite ship from the untamed?

mint, i know you wanted to give me choice and creative freedom and i appreciate it so much but my gOSH am i not the person to do that for 😂 not only do i rarely have favourites of anything but i have to figure out my emotions for these unnamed blorbos? this is how you end up with five answers for the price of one ✨

so, for kinnporsche i came to the conclusion i have two - one for the earlier part of the show and one for the last episodes (i think the green is..fairly obvious)

first one is the men themselves who made me feel so many things throughout the show and turnt it into the amazing experience it was for me, watching them learn how to understand each other and open up, the tender scenes, the chemistry, following the discussions on here about kinn and his trust issues (omg especially around the tawan episodes, that was crazy) - their journey was so much fun!

the second one..what can i say, vegaspete were what everyone seemed to anticipate and i was kinda neutral until their episodes actually hit, then i went insane lmao, i just love pathetic men and "only i understand him, only i can tame him" type of stuff - i got plenty of that and some top notch chemistry and they were what made the last episodes for me

onto the untamed.. i don't like thinking about it too much because one cql viewing later i'm a broken woman, i do not understand how people watch it more than once and choose to actively think about it, write analyses, delve into the lore - i'm not built like you guys and you have my respect 💕 all of that is to say i dont think bout the ships too much either, i picked these as faves because they had a certain smth

I don't think anyone could possibly guess what the three couples are they're - not the most popular 😂 except for wangxian, those are my babies:

the next one is jiang cheng with... *drums*

...wen qing 🥰 i didn't ship them as divorced until i saw the option and decided that yes, they would be so amazing as divorced parents or smth and i would read about it for sure; not the comb, not the post-war conversations - that inn scene always comes to mind, it feels like a checkpoint at which you could take a different route and change the outcome, a spot where you can stop and think "what if"... jiang cheng before the weight of zidian, the only thing of importance at the moment - his brother's safety... wen qing with only her brother to look out for, testing how far she'd go for an outsider while risking everything... or, y'know, i just find the scene fun, smart and rewatchable 🤷‍♀️ they're a very interesting ship for me cause i don't mind them not being together, either way is fine and makes sense and i never really feel this way about ships i care about, they usually HAVE to be together y'know but with these two i just have many thoughts and feelings that don't actually make me go crazy which is so refreshing

and the one ship that i'm not sure i even ship but b o y they make me feel things...

...xiao xingchen and xue yang YES I KNOW, still to this day am not sure about some story details lol that whole arc left me shaken to my core and i've worked on forgetting it so it took a while to even remember they exist .. anyways, they found home in each other and could've been happy but they are who they are and they acted how they acted and that's that :) also my feels on song lan (and him with xiao xingchen) are mixed but this might be the one triangle i can see myself enjoying as a throuple.. i avoided stuff about that whole psychological horror arc so stuff that could sway me in any particular direction haven't been encountered in a while ✨

[cantalooprat]

Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation

What I Liked

actually good enemies to lovers even tho idt it was ever explicitly mentioned that it was enemies to lovers. but like. wangxian past dynamic of cocky hotheaded wwx n strict rule-adhering lwj n how they just...clash, bc wwx is naturally so boisterous and annoying and he just keeps bothering lwj, and how lwj was like nonsense but he??? does he like wwx???? and he just! gets so annoyed!! and when their ideologies stayed the same but their methodologies clashed and how lwj still wanted to save wwx but can't quite get it across. man, that part hurt.

ok but like im a huge sucker for the "even if the world is against you, i'll always be on your side" trope and the siege against wwx at nightless city w lwj defending him n attacking his own sect's ppl is like the epitome of that trope n im so in love oh my god. n then... how lwj recognized him as mxy n like. protected him from jc as if hes trying to make up for 13 yrs ago.

jin ling's uncle

jin ling lowkey reminds me of sun xiang n i love sun xiang

tangentially related: season 3 ending song "wuwang" is soo good, i love the lyrics, it's so tender and the imagery the lyrics paint is so beautiful and vivid

the plot is tied together so well! the cause and effect and the world wwx and lwj live in r so, so vividly described. like everything makes sense in the bigger picture, no one's fully right or wrong, everyone has reasons for behaving the way they do and they all receive the consequences, whether good or bad.

oh!! the xiao xingchen flashback!!! i think that was the first moment that rly sold me to mdzs. it was like watching a trainwreck and i mean it in the best way possible, the way one knows the ending is sad but that it's inevitable bc it's in the past, but even knowing that doesn't help the sadness.

What I Disliked

i want so badly an extra chapter dedicated to lwj. lxc mentioned how he wanted a flute with such a lost look on his face, branded himself with the same brand wwx got in the xuanwu cave incident n like. i want to read abt his emotional turmoil during that period of time. he's so emotionally repressed!! let me read more abt his feelings!!!!!

the way the story interweaved flashbacks n present events give me so much whiplash

more abt the donghua but the sheer injustice jiang cheng’s characterization faced at the end brings me so much rage

Notes

THE INCENSE BURNER TRILOGY LMAO that shit was Wild icb wwx used bichen as a dildo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i honestly dont know if its a pro or a con it was so wtf

ok i just imagine lwj eventually quietly moving on with life but like. he wont ever fall in love with anyone else. he will keep remembering wwx. n im so. idk. i just imagine stoic and icy lwj, keeping emperors smile in his room for wwx but wwx never returning. lwj and his song wangxian. lwj raising lsz as the last remnant of what wwx had dedicated himself to protect. im so. god. 

i literally went from "this wn is ok n i understand why its so popular" to "CRYING OVER WANGXIAN" (edit: now i am a jiang cheng stan)

i felt intense dugeuns rewatching the clip of wwx playing lwj's love song for him when he was subduing wn in the beginning he was walking backwards n then crashed into lwj n i was like,,, omg,,, lwj recognized him from the beginning bc of this,,,

i started mdzs expecting the emotional outcome of a regular danmei novel, and ended up a crying jiang cheng stan, and i think that says a lot abt mxtx as a writer

Quotes

He wasn't scared of falling. All these years, he'd fallen many times. But falling on the ground still hurt, after all. If someone was there to catch him, it'd be more than wonderful.

[tsui-no-sora]

Nooo :(( why do people dislike Jiang Cheng he's literally just a little guy full of problems he and his siblings were born on a sewer underneath a bridge all on their own one lonely night full of storms he's like an injured cat you find on the side of the road he's never done anything wrong

[llycaons]

friends...we have this thread every week

[sodrippy]

why is there still not a function to allow me to lock posts so people cant leave their stupid takes on my shit?

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

im absolutely enamored with your resoluteness on loving jc. I used to like him as a rabid dog on a leash pathetically blaming everyone else like a real maniac (this may sound negative but believe me craziness is lovely) (but not all, just this). He used to be my comfort character. At the very least, i dont deal with trauma and act like he does.Then i met people who insist jc is uwu jiujiu, it really ruined him for me. So i salute your endurance and being truthful to yourself without letting others ruin your happiness.

❤️ (｡･ω･｡)

Thank you very much for your kind words!

I do understand how he can be a comfort character in the sense that he is asking for a heap of karma to come to him due to his actions through life. And to explore the idea of a sort of redemption for him as a person because he was given an opening at the end for him to take.

I am horribly invested in him actually learning to grow out of the forever hateful teenager and into someone, while not the best by any means, is at least able to support and protect Jin Ling out of the only love he has for someone and to use that as a way to finally stand by someone without worry or blaming his actions on another.

He is not a lovable person, at all, and he knows that, he is selfish and self-centered and always will be. He is not compatible with Wei Wuxian as a person and his one kindness was leaving Wei Wuxian to start a new life away from him. It is not sad for Jiang Cheng, as he very much realizes the bridges he has burned, and I don't think he would ever be over the resentment he holds for Wei Wuxian, that will be a part of him as a person forever. But he can just chose to move past it instead of forever blaming Wei Wuxian for his own unhappiness that he is responsible for.

But he isn't soft, he isn't kind. He as a person does not want to be that aside from more than likely a rare, supportive role to Jin Ling, and that child would be the only person Jiang Cheng would get his act together for. Other than that, he would carry on in the world as he does, not an exceptional person, as a sect leader, or in any heroics.

[natcat5]

why the untamed has made me lose my mind, in point form

hmmm, trying to put into words why the untamed makes me so crazy. really trying to understand why I’ve gone so nuts over it. literally i haven’t been this obsessed about something in years. im losing my mind. why is this happening.

Probably it’s, 

reframing of devotion story. 

listen...this dynamic isn’t new. there’s tons of stories of two people, one on a crooked path, or on a path leading to their destruction, and the person they leave behind, who is constantly chasing after them. i mean....yes naruto and sasuke, but also most romantic dramas. 

but the protagonist is always the person doing the chasing. the story is always on the person who’s following, the person who’s devoted, the person who never stops believing in the one they’re chasing after. we’re used to sympathizing with them, and their struggle, and also being like ‘man naruto, you can do better than sasuke, why do you have to keep chasing him?’ or ‘man, she needs to stop chasing after that werewolf/half-angel/brooding male hero of choice, it’s not her responsibility to save him’. 

but in the untamed we’re in the shoes of the one being chased after! the one who’s receiving that unrelenting devotion! and i dont know! it hits different! no longer are we sighing wistfully at our protagonist’s relentless quest to save their loved one, and maybe thinking they should give up on them, or they could do better. in the untamed it’s like, god, you want to take wei wuxian by the face and be like ‘stop running, you deserve to be loved, stop running, you’re not as bad as everyone says, stop running, let him catch you, you deserve his devotion, you deserve to be loved’

shit hits different!! when the protagonist is the one being chased!!! i don’t know!!! it drives me insane i can’t stop thinking about Them!!

also it’s

grumpy/sunshine, but slightly to the left

self-explanatory. usually grumpy is the one on the path to hell and sunshine is steadfastly trying to pull them back. but in the untamed sunshine is a necromancer using armies of undead, and grumpy is lawful good trying to save them. i just think that’s neat

did i mention the grumpy/sunshine dynamic?

but it’s like!! listen, lawful good paladin, who, in a certain light, is actually chaotic neutral, because as it turns out, love trumps law, or maybe, love is its own law? and god, isn’t that always the best. when a person from a rule-ordered society meets a chaotic ray of sunshine who tells them to break the rules, follow their heart, and then they huff and say ‘no way!’ until sunshine is in danger and then lawful grumpy breaks every rule over and over to keep them safe???

this shit drives me nuts. im telling you. 

and we also have a bard who is chaotic good, maybe, but also perhaps, lawful evil? and how can we frame that anyway, in a society where the winners rewrite history, and kill whoever they have to in order to make sure they stay on top?? sunshine bard who’s chaotic good because justice must always be upheld even if justice means raising the dead and killing the unjust with them...but who gives you the right to be jury judge and executioner?

(as an aside, im pretty sure that untamed wei wuxian is chaotic good, but absolutely novel wei wuxian might be lawful evil. i love it.) 

hrngrhgrhf  found family

you know what really made me lose my mind about this? watching vine and tiktok compilations for mdzs and the untamed. it really highlights 

Nie HS, Jiang Cheng, and wwx being dumbass frat idiots before shit hits the fan

the juniors meeting each other like, twice, and then being ride or die with both each other and wei wuxian

wen qing and wen ning and wei wuxian and all adopting each other

asdgjh lxc thought he was doing a found family thing with Nie MJ and Meng Yao but actually NMJ and Meng Yao were doing a hannibal thing, maybe a killing eve thing, possibly just a regular murder thing, 

who lives who dies who tells your story as political commentary

this shit hurted but like, it’s really all in on ‘the winners write the history books’, from the treatment of the wen remnants, to the actions of the Jin sect, to everything that happens to WWX after his death. like, romance aside, that is a good narrative to watch. a painful one, but the show is pretty firm in that the difference between an atrocity and an act of heroism depends who wins and writes the stories at the end of the day. 

hrgdfgdn let’s talk about wwx leaving at the end of the show and NHS refusing to take responsibility...removing themselves from the hero narrative? knowing how easy it is for the story to go the other way? maybe, who knows

endless possibility for time travel fix its

there were so many different points in this story where shit hit the fan it’s made AO3 an absolute paradise of time travel fix its. I love it. no that’s the whole point, I dont have anything else to add that’s it

can i talk about the devotion narrative again?

y’all....I can’t get over it...wei wuxian was a ball of sunshine who also set himself on fire to keep everyone else warm and then died terribly and lwj never ever gave up on him! oh my god, the way the story flips. wwx happy and full of justice always chasing after lwj trying to catch his eye, trying to help him, and then when everything shits the fan and wwx starts going down a dark path and lwj is like. he turns around and wwx is no longer following after him happily. and so lwj has to chase after him, for like the next twenty years. god.

hrghgng he did his pining! sixteen years of it! I weep, honestly

[robininthelabyrinth]

- [x] Post canon Jiang Cheng accidentally died and went back in time to his Gusu Days, de-aged. Plot twist, the him in this dimension died, like 3 months ago, in Caiyi Town. Everyone thinks he is a fierce corpse because everyone attended his funeral and all the ceremonies that followed. The Nie sabers dont want to hurt him though?! The talismans in calming vengeful and restless spirits dont work?! Chaos, utter chaos happens.Give Jiang Cheng some love AncientChina-20forever. I’m one of the 8 sibs

Nie Mingjue trusted Baxia more than he trusted himself, which was probably a stupid decision – according to sect lore, it was definitely a stupid decision – but when he raised his saber to strike down the fierce corpse that had risen up from the Jiang sect heir’s untimely grave, Baxia said Hey cool we get to kill people now? 

So he stopped.

(He said he trusted her, not that he listened to her. He wasn’t that stupid.)

Jiang Cheng was panting for breath, shaking in terror but too exhausted to continue running. Now that Nie Mingjue had a moment of calm to study him, he observed that his pupils were blown wide from the effort of escaping, but they were still there; his eyes were neither full white nor full black, and thus unlike those of most resentful spirits. His fingers were red and raw and the nails all broken, as if he’d had to dig himself out of his tomb or something, but they were a human length, not elongated.

“Are you alive?” Nie Mingjue asked him.

“Yes,” Jiang Cheng said. “Like I’ve been trying to tell everyone, but no one believes me –”

“Your death was witnessed by many people,” Nie Mingjue told him. “No less than the two Jades of Lan testified regarding your heroism in preventing the Wen sect from using the Waterborne Abyss they unleashed as a pretext for conquering the Cloud Recesses.”

“The Wen sect?” Jiang Cheng said. “The Waterborne Abyss – what?”

“You don’t remember?”

“No, I do remember, that’s just not how it happened. The Wen sect didn’t come to burn the Cloud Recesses for another two years after the incident with the Waterborne Abyss –”

Nie Mingjue could feel his eyebrows going up – we’re back to not killing humans again aren’t we, Baxia grumbled, figuring out that she wasn’t getting blood today, stupid rules, do you know how many evil humans there are – and he frowned, considering the possibilities provoked by that sentence. “Did you get a glimpse of the future when you died?” he asked. “Or – something else?”

“I have no idea,” Jiang Cheng confessed, looking over his shoulder at where there were still shouts of anger from the ones who had been hunting him. “I can tell you, only – the others –”

They were still trying to kill him, he meant, and were being most unreasonable about it.

“Of course,” Nie Mingjue said, and drew Baxia again. “Hold her.”

“What?”

“Stop complaining, they’re almost here.”

Jiang Cheng took Baxia by the hilt – she growled at him lest he think too much of himself, and he twitched like a startled rabbit – and stood still as a statute. Nie Mingjue draped a spare set of robes over his shoulders to hide the glaring purple that screamed Jiang sect and turned towards the door, hands behind his back.

“Sect Leader Nie, Sect Leader Nie –” the pursuers chanted as they ran towards him, clutching calming talismans and other spiritual weapons in their hands, seeking his aid in pursuing the abomination that perverted the honorable Jiang Cheng’s body.

Not one of them looked in the direction of Baxia for more than a split second.

She had that effect on people, Nie Mingjue had found. 

After a while, Nie Mingjue chased them off, giving them incorrect directions in the hope they’d wear themselves out on their wild goose hunt, and maybe in the process find something useful to hunt on the mountain.

“I’ll take you to the Lotus Pier,” he told a still-frozen Jiang Cheng, and removed Baxia from his hands. “Do you require rest first?”

“Your sword is the scariest thing I have ever met,” Jiang Cheng said, voice dazed.

“Saber,” Nie Mingjue corrected. “My saber is the scariest thing you’ve ever met.”

“…right.”

“Your family will be happy to see you,” Nie Mingjue said. “They have not taken your death well.”

Jiang Cheng scrubbed his face. “I hadn’t even thought about that. Mother must be furious, and jiejie’s probably crying…who even knows how Wei Wuxian is taking it. Probably figuring out a way to blow things up to vent his feelings or something, what a disaster.”

Wei Wuxian had in fact lapsed into something not unlike a comatose state, capable of little more than eating and sleeping and responding to direct commands; he stirred only when Jiang Cheng’s name was mentioned, and even then the only change was that tears dripped down his face – he had been there when Jiang Cheng had sacrificed his life for him, for the Lan sect, for the world, and Nie Mingjue had been unsure if he would recover from the blow.

Madame Yu had been little better, though Jiang Cheng had correctly identified her primary emotional response as rage – Nie Mingjue thought that she didn’t know of any other ways to communicate, a situation he sympathized with – and Jiang Yanli was, in fact, inconsolable.

“Your father is upset as well,” Nie Mingjue said, because Jiang Cheng hadn’t mentioned him, and the surprise on Jiang Cheng’s face was – unexpected, hitting him like a jab to the gut that knocked out all his breath. “Did you not think he would be? You’re his son.”

“If I’m gone, Wei Wuxian can inherit the sect,” Jiang Cheng said as if a sentence like that made any sense at all. “He understands the motto better, Father likes him better –”

“Your father is a fool,” Nie Mingjue said. “He’s the one who has mangled your sect motto beyond all recognition, not you – he allows his heart to guide him anywhere he wishes to go, without any burden, and that is not how righteous men live. If he thought you did not understand, it was his duty as a father to teach you; if he did not naturally love you, it was his duty as your kin to value you regardless. That he has failed in those duties is his failing, not yours.”

Jiang Cheng’s mouth opened and closed, shocked by Nie Mingjue’s rudeness.

“He is a fool,” Nie Mingjue said again. “But even fools can be taught, even if only in the harshest of circumstances. Your father has declared war against the Wen sect, regardless of the recklessness of his actions, and says he will not rest until your memorial tablet is drenched with the blood of your killers; they say he aged twenty years in a day, that he visits your room and your grave every day, that he can barely look at the water around the Lotus Pier without flinching in memory of you –”

“None of that happened,” Jiang Cheng said desperately. “None of that –”

“My brother will be happy to see you as well,” Nie Mingjue continued. “He was rather distraught, to say the least. You should speak with him on the way to the Lotus Pier; he can help you come up with a coherent cover story.”

That this wasn’t the Jiang Cheng that had died, he already knew, but Nie Mingjue trusted Baxia when she said that this was a human, and anyway it seemed fairly clear that it was a Jiang Cheng, who loved his family, and that was good enough for him.

The Jiang sect’s declaration of war was messy, liable to lead to their destruction rather than anything else; the Wen sect would focus in on them and everyone else would stay out of it, thinking it some private affair. He was of course willing to help, but two Great Sects weren’t enough - they needed more than that. If they were to survive what happened next, if the entire cultivation world were to survive, they would need all their wits about them.

They were going to need Jiang Cheng.

[chengxians]

Not everyone is nice abt chengxian lol you just have the meanies blocked. To be fair most of them are also anti jiang cheng or anti wei wuxian (imagine being anti the protagonist of the series you claim to like lol 🤡) too so it's not hard.

- Relationships Anon

HEDJSODJSJSJ i am very vocal about my love of actual fictional incest and fujoshi/fujin/fudanshi as well as starember so (unsurprisingly) this gets me blocked by the majority of the people who don’t like chengxian :”) i am left with people with brains and it’s very nice

bro i have SEEN people that were like “dni if you like the incense burner” and it took me MONTHS to realize it was about the mf incense burner that wwx has his rape fantasy in 😭😭😭 like!!!!! unfortunately for these folks wwx has a rape kink that is just a fact 😭😭

i have never met an anti wwx…..i would like to see the mental gymnastics that goes on there (and i would like to bet $20 they love lwj who is equally and arguably more “problematic”)

i HAVE met a couple of anti jc ppl tho 😩 i caught one while reading a mf niecest fic i was like . bro this is your cousin what do u MEAN “not jiang cheng friendly” fuck off

in general idrc if ppl don’t like jiang cheng bc he’s…A Lot. and definitely i can see how he’d be Horrible if the consumer had a mean or abusive sibling tbh. but mostly i just think ppl are missing out on the sheer amount of Sexy that is sect leader jiang

so yeah. i dont necessarily understand ppl who dislike jc but i also dont blame them?? i didnt really care for shi qingxuan in tgcf either and he’s WIDELY beloved so 😩 i just imagine it’s the same feeling tbh. he just Didnt Click and that’s okay (even if they’re wrong /j)

[drwcn]

The Wen Zhuliu knows/feels it is wrong and still do it cuz he gotta follow orders, just make him more unsympathetic to me. I really dont get those people that post Wen Zhuliu deserved better! Why???

I think the reason is that it’s not so simple as “this is a job” so “i have to follow orders”. There is cultural nuance to Wen Zhuliu’s character. He changed his name to be part of the Wens. Even though it is sometimes practiced to do that when you join a sect, it is not necessary (ie: Su She in Gusu Lan, and Wei Wuxian in Yunmeng Jiang). To change your last name means renouncing your parents, your ancestors, and that’s like.... a HUGE deal. That’s why even married women don’t change their last names. You don’t ever forget your ancestors. 

The only people who do change their last names are a) those facing persecution, and even then you try to find something that reminds you of your past; b) domesticated servants sold into servitude or prostitution they don’t really have a chose; c) you owe the new family a debt greater than life. 

There is a word in chinese which often gets translated into ‘debt’, but it doesn’t mean debt. The word is 恩 ‘en’. Debt implies there is a price that can be repaid, but ‘en’ is something is much more permanent such that some times “en” can’t ever be repaid.

This concept doesn’t exist in the English language, and to an extent, doesn’t exist in western culture. 

So here is where Wen Zuliu’s actions deserve some further analysis. The reason “why” he does what he does is very important. If he’s just an employee of the Wens, then yeah nobody is sympathetic to his callousness. But if there is something more there, if Wen Ruohan somehow gave “en” towards Wen Zhuliu, then what he does is much more understandable. 

Culturally, he can’t, or even shouldn’t go against Wen Ruohan. Everyone can oppose him and his tyranny, but Wen Zhuliu (if there is en between him and WRH) can’t. He can walk away, or to stop serving WRH, but he can’t turn against him. That would be 恩将仇报, to repay “en” with hatred. 

If Wen Zhuliu were to help the protagonists and defeat Wen Ruohan, he would earn himself no respect from the other cultivators either. 

Why do you think Wei Wuxian disobeying Jiang Cheng was such a big deal? The Jiang family gave ‘en’ towards Wei Wuxian; they took him in, raised him, (with the exception of Madam Yu) treated him like a young master. We with our modern point of views might think well that’s what any decent person should do, well...that’s not the case historically. Wei Wuxian swore he would serve the family and Jiang Cheng. That technically should’ve been his #1 priority and no other priority should overtake that. Yes, the war prisoners of the Wen Clan were innocent, but if Wei Wuxian followed the conventional customs, he shouldn’t have spoken out or left Jiang Cheng alone. But Wei Wuxian chose take a stand because he saw the bigger picture and decided that confronting Jin Guangshan and genocide was the more right thing to do than his personal loyalties.

Let me just say this, if Wei Wuxian chose to do nothing because he wanted to stay with Jiang Cheng, that would’ve been the right thing to do as well. Either way... there was no winning.  

So coming back to to the topic of WZL, obviously this is all speculation, but somehow I think WZL probably was in between a rock and a hard place. 

Edit: and as for Jiang Cheng. You might think...well Wen Ning saved Jiang Cheng’s life, shouldn’t he technically owe “en” to Wen Ning and Wen Qing? No. Because the Wen Clan destroyed his family and killed his parents, there is no “owing” of any kind between their Clans. The fact that Jiang Cheng stood up and said something for the two of them in front of the Jins is enough. (I can’t remember which post war episode it was but like Jiang Cheng did say Wen Qing and Wen Ning helped him. Honestly if the rest of the clans weren’t such evil assholes, they would’ve listened to him and said oh okay, I guess we’ll make an exception, and that would’ve been that. Wen Qing wouldn’t have made a fuss if Wen Ning was safe. Her bottom line was always her brother. You can disagree if you want, but her goal was always get A-Ning to safety - not, get the rest of my family to safety.)